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View Full Version : Todd McShay/Kiper hate Patrick Turner



Roman529
04-26-2009, 11:32 AM
:( Guess that was a reach. A "6th round" pick.

ticophin
04-26-2009, 11:34 AM
Im glad they dont run this team.......

MagicDolphin86
04-26-2009, 11:36 AM
T3.... Trust The Tuna!!!!

NewCoachPlease
04-26-2009, 11:41 AM
Why would you watch ESPN? The NFL networks guys like the pick.

burger13
04-26-2009, 11:44 AM
Sporting news draft guide has him as teh 10th best WR (3rd round value).....

I like his size.....good we will bring in someone to compete to be that big target at WR...rather than give the spot to Brandon London or Ernest Wilford by default.

fiftyofhaze
04-26-2009, 11:58 AM
kiper and them hate the pick only cuz if it works out they look foolish.

General Tso
04-26-2009, 12:00 PM
There seemed to be better OL/TE value on the board and several WRs I liked better than Turner too.

Of course, looks like many of those OL/TE I want are still around for whatever reason.

lbmclean_sj
04-26-2009, 12:02 PM
I am not a draft guru and have no opinion on Turner

but this tiny WR from PSU just got picked and he was a nice pick

whatever

dolfan91
04-26-2009, 12:06 PM
I have my doubts about this pick!!! not sure he was value, i thought Jarret Dillard was more of polished WR and a better fit in the 3rd round.

aj13
04-26-2009, 12:08 PM
get sirius radio or turn on nfl network...

Quadfather
04-26-2009, 12:08 PM
my only concern is usually USC WR suck. I.E. Mike Williams, Dewane Jarrett. I would rather have had inglesius.

finner
04-26-2009, 12:11 PM
yea but if biily goat cheat in NE would have selected the kid 10 spots earlier they'd be sucking pats socks.

Soooooooooo obvious....

burger13
04-26-2009, 12:12 PM
I have my doubts about this pick!!! not sure he was value, i thought Jarret Dillard was more of polished WR and a better fit in the 3rd round.


not judging who will be a better player, but Patrick Turner (6ft 5in 221 lbs) is a different kind of WR than Dillard (5ft 10in 185lbs)....and IMO fits what the Dolphins need at WR better (obviously the FO agreed)

finner
04-26-2009, 12:13 PM
the kid's got a bod and frame and has soft hands and makes catches in traffic. the knock on him is "explsoveness off line." But like they say you can't coach size and this kids got it.

Hin utube vid is impressive. So we'll see...

Greatness920
04-26-2009, 12:15 PM
their just upset becuz it messes up their projects forget that... look at all the tall recievers that got drafted right before miami picked they prolly had some of those they wanted and then patrick turner right with them and they took turner let him practice then we judge...he might be like STEVE SMITH on the giants. hes a solid dude.

Kiick72
04-26-2009, 12:16 PM
the kid's got a bod and frame and has soft hands and makes catches in traffic. the knock on him is "explsoveness off line." But like they say you can't coach size and this kids got it.

Hin utube vid is impressive. So we'll see...

You got it in a nutshell. I see the same and I think we are going to love this guy in the Red Zone.

fishypete
04-26-2009, 12:17 PM
Does anyone really care what the so called experts say...you shouldn't.

phinman1
04-26-2009, 01:20 PM
I'd love to get McShay and Parcells in a room and then have McShay explain to Bill why his picks suck. Has this twerp even played football before?

I've often thought that if these guys are so great at picking, then why aren't they in the NFL?

Somebody needs to start a website where they keep track of McShay, Kiper et al and document all the times they are wrong. It would probably ruin their careers.

WelcomeBack
04-26-2009, 01:22 PM
Patrick Turner was a highly touted recruit and could have been huge. He never lived up to the hype, but that's not to say the potential to be great isn't there. He can instantly become a red zone threat.

dlockz
04-26-2009, 01:23 PM
I'd love to get McShay and Parcells in a room and then have McShay explain to Bill why his picks suck. Has this twerp even played football before?

I've often thought that if these guys are so great at picking, then why aren't they in the NFL?

Somebody needs to start a website where they keep track of McShay, Kiper et al and document all the times they are wrong. It would probably ruin their careers.


THere is a website Huddle report. They are probably wrong the same amount of times as people hired by the NFL. Most of the better Gm's hope to be like a good qb and complete over 60 pecent

Thumper1016
04-26-2009, 01:26 PM
If Kiper and Mcshay worth anything at all wouldnt they be scouts for a team and not "experts" for espn.

utahphinsfan
04-26-2009, 01:32 PM
yea but if biily goat cheat in NE would have selected the kid 10 spots earlier they'd be sucking pats socks.

Soooooooooo obvious....

Exactly!

It amazes me that teams want to trade w/ the Cheatriots... Well they'll always have trade partners in the Chefs and Donkeys and a minor league team in the Crimson Tide.

dlockz
04-26-2009, 02:26 PM
If Kiper and Mcshay worth anything at all wouldnt they be scouts for a team and not "experts" for espn.


your joking right. I know Mel Kiper makes alot more than a scout and does not have to shuttle around at a team's wishes. Most people dislike Kiper becase they wish it was them. All of our wannabes aspire to be this guy.
I know I could do alot worse things then evaluate and talk about football all the time

Awsi Dooger
04-26-2009, 11:44 PM
Patrick Turner was a highly touted recruit and could have been huge. He never lived up to the hype, but that's not to say the potential to be great isn't there. He can instantly become a red zone threat.

That's the correct philosophy. You never want to solely focus on recency. It's a common flaw in personnel analysis and in sports analysis in general. Any bozo can witness and remember the most immediate outcome.

Everything tends to drift back to the beginning. That's why you don't want to get carried away with negative appraisals of guys who have always been stars, or hoopla over players who have been considered journeymen all their lives. There were reasons for the early ratings and they will generally resurface.

I've heard many athletes talk about that dynamic. Top boxers are wary of kids who beat them as young teenagers, even if that guy has done very little as a pro. Tiger Woods was asked if he had ever been intimidated on a golf course. He said yes, by a 13 year old who could hit it 300 yards. Tiger was slightly younger. Then Tiger said he was concerned about that player many years later, even though the gap between the two of them had widened dramatically. The early pecking order becomes ingrained in your conscious.

Patrick Turner was an elite recruit. I have to laugh when Kiper and McShay ignore that, or even use it as a negative. We're not talking about a premium pick. In a down the road slot it's very sharp to isolate kids who were once considered very special. You'll receive considerably higher payout in the long run by identifying those players, than by the masochistic strategy of choosing 3rd rounders who were previously considered 5th rounders.

Overachievers will absolutely ruin your team. You need a handful on special teams to do the grunt work. Otherwise there is not a more boring and limiting theme in all of sports. If you want a 9-7 ceiling, stock your team with overachievers. I'll take my chances with the Patrick Turners, and don't even have to hit on 1/3 of them to make you irrelevant.

Dogbone34
04-27-2009, 12:16 AM
Exactly!

It amazes me that teams want to trade w/ the Cheatriots...

No kidding, I can't believe teams keep giving away early picks to Belichick.
He already has 4 of next years 64.

Turner has some potential.

WitheringPlant
04-27-2009, 12:42 AM
my only concern is usually USC WR suck. I.E. Mike Williams, Dewane Jarrett. I would rather have had inglesius.
The big names have busted, but Steve Smith has been a very nice addition to the Giants. Colbert looked good for a while there too, but has kind of fallen off the face of the earth.

Digital
04-27-2009, 12:53 AM
I'm not a Turner fan. I honestly have more faith in London than Turner. :( I hope I'm wrong, but that sure seems like a very poor pick to me. Then again, I don't like the Pat White pick either because it re-emphasizes the wildcat gimic offense and IMHO undercuts our standard sets. I'd have picked Connor Barwin instead of White.

But, it appears that despite what they tell us, Ireland & Co. are picking a position and it's opposing position on the other side of the ball each draft. Last draft was a good OL vs. DL draft. This year it's DB vs. Receivers (WR & TE). It's not my favorite way of doing things, but Ireland & Co. have a pretty good track record of it, so I'm fine with it. I just don't always agree with some of the actual players and where they are selected.

I am not a Turner fan. I am not a White fan. I'm willing to give the late picks more leeway and this unknown kid Nalbone I'll cut slack because I don't know anything about him except his triangle numbers--which look good. But overall, I'm underwhelmed aside from the two CB's. :(

DrewOldSchool
04-27-2009, 08:25 AM
Kiper put out his draft grades but they are for Insider's only. Anyone know what grade he gave our draft?

CANDolphan
04-27-2009, 08:05 PM
I'd love to get McShay and Parcells in a room and then have McShay explain to Bill why his picks suck. Has this twerp even played football before?

I've often thought that if these guys are so great at picking, then why aren't they in the NFL?

Somebody needs to start a website where they keep track of McShay, Kiper et al and document all the times they are wrong. It would probably ruin their careers.

Haha. You really think they haven't been offered tons of money to scout for NFL teams? Kiper has turned down numerous offers for be the head scout for numerous NFL teams. He earns over $1.5 million a year working for ESPN. Mayock as well.

Mayock, Kiper, and Todd McShay are top scouts. They are generally VERY good at breaking down prospects...

#1dolphinsfan
04-27-2009, 08:10 PM
Mcshay, and Kiper are retarded they hate the miami dolphins all togther

dr.jake
04-27-2009, 08:16 PM
did you watch USC football the past 2 season's? turner came in with a lot of hype and left with a fizzle. he has good size granted but definatlely is not a big time play maker or a game changer. and keep in mind DC's were not coming into these games saying we have to shut down patrick turner. they were looking inside worried about the tailbacks like mcknight. i think turner would have lasted to the 6-7th round or gone undrafted. i think we overspent.

finfan54
04-27-2009, 08:39 PM
did you watch USC football the past 2 season's? turner came in with a lot of hype and left with a fizzle. he has good size granted but definatlely is not a big time play maker or a game changer. and keep in mind DC's were not coming into these games saying we have to shut down patrick turner. they were looking inside worried about the tailbacks like mcknight. i think turner would have lasted to the 6-7th round or gone undrafted. i think we overspent.

I heard that the offense had changed and they started hitting the RB's out of the backfield more which would explain the 700 yards receiving some. Whether that is due to Turner's abilities or not has not been mentioned by anyone with credibility.

So I imagine, our guys looked into him at USC and questioned some things and found out some things. I also imagine they were ok with using a 3rd rounder on him no matter the outcome. Any way you slice it we have a guy who gives London competition and may the best man win!

As far as Kiper/Mcshay...They are salesmen in the end. thats all its about. Mayock has more respectful tone and not as highly critical because he is more of a professional and less Jim Rome.

This regime scored so big in last years draft and FA with players down the line like Fasano, Henne, Adele, Bess, Carpenter, Thomas, and Pennington that the needs became more prounounced and they focused on guys who they like that would give us special teams ability for competition.

Another thing. It was said that we traded our last pick because we didnt have anyone left on our board to pick. In other words, this draft sucked as far as the pickens went in other areas and it is a complete crapshoot.


Pat Turner IMO is more ready to go than Ramses Barden but because nobody talked about Turner on here, he didnt get love. That is really what it comes down to. There are not many other 6-5 guys other than Aaron Kelly so I would take Turner and I am perfectly ok with the pick and I could care less what anyone says about it. IT IS A FRIGGIN 3RD ROUNDER! None of BB'sd third rounders will see the field this year. This guy might score 5 TD's in the red zone for all we know.

ssnjamerson
04-27-2009, 10:00 PM
Patrick Turner couldnt catch a cold in the middle of December. A better pick would have been Inglesias. He is a better route runner, better hands, better everything except size. Patrick Turner=Ernest Wilford.....

fishypete
04-27-2009, 10:05 PM
First...who ever said the Turner was a game changer? He is a possession type receiver. His job isn't to run 40 yds and get open....his job is to get first downs....his job is to make red zone plays. He's a mis-match for most corners..at 6'5" 223.

Here's why he was picked by the Dolphins;

Character: Turner is a good program player, well-liked by his peers and coaching staff. He is beginning to take on more of a leadership role, which is the result of gaining confidence in his ability. He is reliable, does the little extras to improve and has no known off-field issues. He always has a positive attitude, but on the field he is a no nonsense type that comes to play on every down


Work Habits: The coaches cite his work ethic as a reason the younger players look up to Turner. He is an easygoing sort, but takes pride in his leadership role. He will put in the extra hours after practice or in the film room. He does the little extras to improve in the weight room and does everything the coaches ask.


Release: Turner is more quick than fast, but he does generate enough explosiveness getting off the line and the ability to separate in the open. He has good avoidance skills and shows the hand usage to defeat the jam. It is difficult to reroute him due to his ability to fend off defenders and protect his body. His size and strength makes him consistently break through the press. He maintains good body control through his movements and is light on his feet for a player of his size.


Acceleration: Turner is capable of moving the chains in the short area. He shows a functional burst to get under the ball and presents a nice target for the passer going over the middle. His size allows him to turn a short catch into a big gain and he knows how to shield the ball from defenders working underneath. He gets good separation on deep routes and can do this consistently. He has the stride to get under the long tosses in a hurry and displays smoothness in his route progression. He has made marked improvement tracking and locating the ball and if isolated on a linebacker or a safety, he can easily separate. Against the cornerbacks, he has the burst and strength to break arm tackles.


Route Running: Earlier in his career, Turner was more of a one-speed cut type. In 2007, he showed much better ability to vary his speed and finish his routes. He is now a much more polished route runner, quickly getting his head around to track the ball in flight. He runs tight upfield routes and has good stop-and-go action working underneath. He does a good job of eating up the defender's cushion and is capable of sinking and planting coming out of his breaks. The thing you notice on 2008 film is that Turner had a penchant for adjusting on his route so the quarterback did not have to throw a perfect pass every time. He now attacks the ball on its descent and does not wait for the pass to intersect on his routes.


Hands: Turner has strong hands, which he uses with force to defeat the press. He does a nice job of extending for the ball away from the body's framework. He plucks the ball with ease and has developed into a natural hands catcher (they appear soft).

Blocking Ability: When working at the line of scrimmage, Turner gets his hands up quickly coming out of his stance to lock on and sustain. He is an aggressive type that will face up to the competition. He could use a little more strength, but does not hesitate to pester. Working upfield, he uses his body well as a position blocker to seal off. He makes every effort to hold and maintain contact in the open and will rarely struggle to sustain vs. moving defensive backs.

I see nothing wrong with a kid thats played in a pro-style offense that will only get better with our coaching.

finner
04-27-2009, 10:27 PM
your joking right. I know Mel Kiper makes alot more than a scout and does not have to shuttle around at a team's wishes. Most people dislike Kiper becase they wish it was them. All of our wannabes aspire to be this guy.
I know I could do alot worse things then evaluate and talk about football all the time

Wow, are you serious? Who in their right mind would ever want to be such an arrogant piss mouth with psycho eyes and god complex like Kiper?

Ya know I know the dude invented the draft and has been alive for 6000 years but he's trash in the can compared to someone who actually knows football like Mayock or even...well peple who've coached or scouted or played for an NFL team. That would be a start to credibility...

finner
04-27-2009, 10:35 PM
That's the correct philosophy. You never want to solely focus on recency. It's a common flaw in personnel analysis and in sports analysis in general. Any bozo can witness and remember the most immediate outcome.

Everything tends to drift back to the beginning. That's why you don't want to get carried away with negative appraisals of guys who have always been stars, or hoopla over players who have been considered journeymen all their lives. There were reasons for the early ratings and they will generally resurface.

I've heard many athletes talk about that dynamic. Top boxers are wary of kids who beat them as young teenagers, even if that guy has done very little as a pro. Tiger Woods was asked if he had ever been intimidated on a golf course. He said yes, by a 13 year old who could hit it 300 yards. Tiger was slightly younger. Then Tiger said he was concerned about that player many years later, even though the gap between the two of them had widened dramatically. The early pecking order becomes ingrained in your conscious.

Patrick Turner was an elite recruit. I have to laugh when Kiper and McShay ignore that, or even use it as a negative. We're not talking about a premium pick. In a down the road slot it's very sharp to isolate kids who were once considered very special. You'll receive considerably higher payout in the long run by identifying those players, than by the masochistic strategy of choosing 3rd rounders who were previously considered 5th rounders.

Overachievers will absolutely ruin your team. You need a handful on special teams to do the grunt work. Otherwise there is not a more boring and limiting theme in all of sports. If you want a 9-7 ceiling, stock your team with overachievers. I'll take my chances with the Patrick Turners, and don't even have to hit on 1/3 of them to make you irrelevant.

Great post dear sir.

Turner is BIG and tough and has no issue making the tough catch across the middle.

Ditto the above for the kid (Hartline) from OSU.

Guess what? We don’t have a player like that on the roster except maybe (???) London.

Maybe Ireland and Parcells weren't smokin' crack over the weekend?

:hump:

Charlie Brown
04-27-2009, 10:47 PM
I all I know is Patrick Turner is 6'5", he's physical and aggresive, he has great hands and he can go up and get the ball. At the very least we can use him on the one on one coverage and Pennington/henne/White can just throw it out there for Turner to grab. Hes 6'5" and he has strong hands.....Im sure he could come down with the ball most of the time. Hes a possesion WR which is what we really need. But I think he was a reach in the 3rd round.

dr.jake
04-27-2009, 10:53 PM
fishypete
i'm sorry but your post screams to me of a guy who reads all the online scouting reports but never actually watches a game himself. i call them as i see them. turner was nothing special and there were plenty of better options there.

fishypete
04-28-2009, 10:30 AM
fishypete
i'm sorry but your post screams to me of a guy who reads all the online scouting reports but never actually watches a game himself. i call them as i see them. turner was nothing special and there were plenty of better options there.

In your opinion perhaps...gladly the only opinion that matters already made their choice.

BlueFin
04-28-2009, 11:55 AM
So two talking heads that have never run a team or worked for a team hate the pick, meanwhile Pat Kirwan, a former longtime NFL personnel man and current talking head on Sirius NFL radio loved the pick and thinks he will succeed in the NFL.

Bumpus
04-28-2009, 11:55 AM
Kiper put out his draft grades but they are for Insider's only. Anyone know what grade he gave our draft?

Better question ... anyone care?