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R_t_Kraken
04-27-2009, 04:20 AM
1st Team

G: Chris Paul
G: Dwyane Wade
F: Lebron James
F: Tim Duncan
C: Dwight Howard

2nd Team

G: Tony Parker
G: Kobe Bryant
F: Paul Pierce
F: Dirk Nowitzski
C: Yao Ming

3rd Team

G: Chauncey Billups
G: Brandon Roy
F: Pau Gasol
F: Kevin Garnett
C: Shaquille O'Neal

Clipse
04-27-2009, 04:59 PM
And Iguodala doesn't even make the 3rd team. Sham!

#1dolphinsfan
04-27-2009, 05:21 PM
Kevin Garnett is so much better then TIm duncan

R_t_Kraken
04-27-2009, 11:27 PM
Sorry I shoulda specified, this isn't official. Just giving my opinion on the award. :crazy:

Feel free to contribute your own.

Clipse
04-28-2009, 01:56 AM
Sorry I shoulda specified, this isn't official. Just giving my opinion on the award. :crazy:

Feel free to contribute your own.
Ahh I see.

R_t_Kraken
05-07-2009, 01:19 AM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2009/05/10q09c1-1.jpg

So.. Wade gets shafted again. Kobe, who was clearly less productive than Wade gets the nod over him anyway for 1st team at their respective position, and it wasn't even a close vote.

:shakeno:

SR 7
05-07-2009, 01:33 AM
kobe is the best player in the nba...wade isn't. hes a very good player, not hte best. big difference.

R_t_Kraken
05-07-2009, 01:51 AM
kobe is the best player in the nba...wade isn't. hes a very good player, not hte best. big difference.

Faker fans are funny.

Mv3 30.2 ppg 7.5 assists 5.0 rebounds 2.2 steals 1.3 blocks 49% shooting


Player Efficiency Rating 30.46

Kobo 26.8 ppg 4.2 assists 5.2 rebounds 1.5 steals 0.4 blocks 47% shooting

Player Efficiency Rating 24.46

Clipse
05-07-2009, 05:27 AM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2009/05/10q09c1-1.jpg

So.. Wade gets shafted again. Kobe, who was clearly less productive than Wade gets the nod over him anyway for 1st team at their respective position, and it wasn't even a close vote.

:shakeno:
It's all a sham. Wade was one of the best players defensively last year, much better than Kobe was. Garnett? Please. What's even sadder is both Battier and Artest make the 2nd team. I would think Iguodala should be on the Defensive 2nd team, but just my opinion...

Clipse
05-07-2009, 05:28 AM
kobe is the best player in the nba...wade isn't. hes a very good player, not hte best. big difference.
And that says ALL-DEFENSIVE, not ALL-NBA. You can't honestly think Kobe played better defense than Wade this year..

Clipse
05-07-2009, 05:32 AM
Faker fans are funny.

Mv3 30.2 ppg 7.5 assists 5.0 rebounds 2.2 steals 1.3 blocks 49% shooting


Player Efficiency Rating 30.46

Kobo 26.8 ppg 4.2 assists 5.2 rebounds 1.5 steals 0.4 blocks 47% shooting

Player Efficiency Rating 24.46
Exactly. He had .7 better Steals per game, and 1.3 blocks per game is incredible for a Guard. But like I've said, don't take it to heart, it's all a big sham, much like the All-Stars and Pro Bowl selections every year. All a popularity contest to be honest.

Possum
05-07-2009, 05:51 AM
wade did have a problem closing out some games this year.

#1 Fan
05-07-2009, 10:02 AM
wade did have a problem closing out some games this year.

because teams would trap him at half court. you'd think he could pass out of that and one of his teammates would convert on a 4-3, but the supporting cast sucks.

how lebron james makes first team all defense over artest and battier is beyond me. makes me hate this award even more. reminds me of when greg maddux won gold gloves 14 years in a row. do voters even watch the games?

JTBRLZ
05-07-2009, 10:23 AM
Did they release the All-NBA teams yet?

SpurzN703
05-07-2009, 03:47 PM
Faker fans are funny.

Mv3 30.2 ppg 7.5 assists 5.0 rebounds 2.2 steals 1.3 blocks 49% shooting


Player Efficiency Rating 30.46

Kobo 26.8 ppg 4.2 assists 5.2 rebounds 1.5 steals 0.4 blocks 47% shooting

Player Efficiency Rating 24.46

Wade is the Miami Heat, Bryant has more support (but he is the best player on the Lakers.)


Kevin Garnett is so much better then TIm duncan

Clearly :err:

R_t_Kraken
05-07-2009, 03:53 PM
Wade is the Miami Heat, Bryant has more support (but he is the best player on the Lakers.)



Really? Cause I totally thought it was Sasha Vujacic all this time. :D

SpurzN703
05-08-2009, 03:16 PM
Really? Cause I totally thought it was Sasha Vujacic all this time. :D

:foundout:

Fin_Frenzy_84
05-08-2009, 05:11 PM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2009/05/10q09c1-1.jpg

So.. Wade gets shafted again. Kobe, who was clearly less productive than Wade gets the nod over him anyway for 1st team at their respective position, and it wasn't even a close vote.

:shakeno:

WOW, Rondo, Battier, and Artest?:confused:

Where is Salmons, Tyrus Thomas, Ben Gordon,even Rose. One of Chicago's players should of made it. Also what about Chris Bosh.

Fin_Frenzy_84
05-08-2009, 10:58 PM
Bad Selections

Clipse
05-09-2009, 09:43 AM
WOW, Rondo, Battier, and Artest?:confused:

Where is Salmons, Tyrus Thomas, Ben Gordon,even Rose. One of Chicago's players should of made it. Also what about Chris Bosh.
Salmons? Rose? Bosh? Not much defense their. Ben Gordon is a solid defender, but you only make the team unfortunately for having big numbers in the steal and block department. No love for the ones who shut people down.

BARF
05-09-2009, 09:54 AM
we all know the type of year wade had he is first team in both offense and defense, no question

Fin_Frenzy_84
05-09-2009, 10:37 AM
we all know the type of year wade had he is first team in both offense and defense, no question


Believe me man i loved to see Wade on 1st team and thats coming from a chicago fan... I think he is way better that Kobe but can't see him on Both the only player I see doin that is Lebron

SR 7
05-12-2009, 02:25 AM
Faker fans are funny.

Mv3 30.2 ppg 7.5 assists 5.0 rebounds 2.2 steals 1.3 blocks 49% shooting


Player Efficiency Rating 30.46

Kobo 26.8 ppg 4.2 assists 5.2 rebounds 1.5 steals 0.4 blocks 47% shooting

Player Efficiency Rating 24.46

you think wade is a better player than kobe? LMAO>

learn the game stats don't say it all. Kobe can shoot when he wants n do what he wants when he wants. Wade has no choice b/c his team doesn' thave half the cast and im not even going to get into it past this b/c that was a joke.

Ferretsquig
05-12-2009, 02:38 AM
How is that even an argument? Kobe is better than Wade because he "can shoot when he wants n do what he wants when he wants"?

I'm going to make the wild assumption here that the argument you're attempting to make is that Kobe does not put up comparable statistics because he can be more selective with his shot attempts with the supporting cast he has in LA. If that's the case, wouldn't you expect him to make a higher percentage of his fg attempts? Or is that another stat we have to disregard in deference to learning the game?

SpurzN703
05-12-2009, 10:14 AM
WOW, Rondo, Battier, and Artest?:confused:

Where is Salmons, Tyrus Thomas, Ben Gordon,even Rose. One of Chicago's players should of made it. Also what about Chris Bosh.

A Bulls fan who wants 4 Bulls on the ALL NBA team. :chuckle:

SR 7
05-12-2009, 01:13 PM
How is that even an argument? Kobe is better than Wade because he "can shoot when he wants n do what he wants when he wants"?

I'm going to make the wild assumption here that the argument you're attempting to make is that Kobe does not put up comparable statistics because he can be more selective with his shot attempts with the supporting cast he has in LA. If that's the case, wouldn't you expect him to make a higher percentage of his fg attempts? Or is that another stat we have to disregard in deference to learning the game?

kobe is always double teamed...watch the series with the rockets he has 3 ppl on him when he drives it in. why u think ariza, walton (who never makes it from the sideline), sasha, farmar, fisher, etc have open three's? cuz he draws the defenders onto him. now tell me WHAT stat would show you that? Hence stats dont tell you jack, watching the game and konwing it does.

I played HS and college ball, trust me, stats don't say jack ****.
the only stat that I think shows valid points is Rebounds, steals, and Blocks b/c thats all hustling, non stop movement of your feet, and knowing wehre to be when to be (reading a defense or the passing lanes).

Wade has the Ariza role in his defense. he plays the defender where as kobe they want him to freelance like a FS to prevent players driving it in which causes him to have less of an opportunity to create steals but then you have ariza who does taht and brown b/c kobe being there allows that to happen. Once again, stats won't show you that. Wade is a great player but he is no where near Kobe. He is hte most complete player to probably ever play the game. And i say complete b/c jordan had a great game but his outside shot resembled that of wade where its limited to a "degree" but kobe has no range. Phil jackson said hes never seen anyone shoot like kobe and have the ability to put up 30 when he decides to depending on the way hte game dictates him to do so. And this is a guy who coached Jordan. He siad the only advantage jordan has on kobe is that jordans mittens (meaning hands) were huge and kobes are small.


for instance, bynum last year before his injury had a FG percentage of i thnk 68 or something....he was 8 for 10 almost every game or 7 for 10...but if u watched the games, he made all his shots off alleys and dunks.

he was second in the league behind Howard in most dunks until his injury. You wouldn't know that if you just checked stats. You would think he has a variety of moves and plays he can created as if he were shaq or something. Shaq had so many moves and smarts for the game, its something bynum lacks right now and he lacks shaqs footwork.

Ferretsquig
05-12-2009, 01:54 PM
kobe is always double teamed...watch the series with the rockets he has 3 ppl on him when he drives it in. why u think ariza, walton (who never makes it from the sideline), sasha, farmar, fisher, etc have open three's? cuz he draws the defenders onto him. now tell me WHAT stat would show you that? Hence stats dont tell you jack, watching the game and konwing it does.

There's this cool stat called an assist.....we started documenting them in the 60s. It often occurs when a player drives into the lane, draws defenders, and passes to an open teammate.


he was second in the league behind Howard in most dunks until his injury. You wouldn't know that if you just checked stats.

Just out of curiosity, how did you know he was second in the league in dunks without checking the stats?

Dolphins7273
05-12-2009, 03:07 PM
This is bull****. Kobe is better than Wade all-time, but he didn't have a better year than Wade offensively or defensively.

R_t_Kraken
05-12-2009, 03:53 PM
you think wade is a better player than kobe? LMAO>

learn the game stats don't say it all. Kobe can shoot when he wants n do what he wants when he wants. Wade has no choice b/c his team doesn' thave half the cast and im not even going to get into it past this b/c that was a joke.

Your funny. Do you know what PER rating is?


PER strives to measure a player's per-minute performance, while adjusting for pace. A league-average PER is always 15.00, which permits comparisons of player performance across seasons.

PER takes into account positive accomplishments, such as field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, and negative ones, such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls. The formula adds positive stats and subtracts negative ones through a statistical point value system. The rating for each player is then adjusted to a per-minute basis so that, for example, substitutes can be compared with starters in playing time debates. It is also adjusted for the team's pace. In the end, one number sums up the players' statistical accomplishments for that season

PER is a formula that measures all aspects of the game offense and defense.

So yes, stats do tell pretty much the whole story, this stat anyway.

There is no argument that Kobe was better than Wade this year. I could point you to a basketball forum with a ton of Lakers homers that would concede this. Not to mention every stat ever documente

I don't know if it's more amusing or pitiful that you would even suggest otherwise. As far as i'm concerned it's pure disrespect for Wade.

Oh and Kobe is definitely a pure shooter, but Wade can shoot well.

and laugh at you saying Kobe was double teamed. No nobody doubled Wade cause they were so worried about Haslem burning them with his sick handles.

R_t_Kraken
05-12-2009, 04:06 PM
There's this cool stat called an assist.....we started documenting them in the 60s. It often occurs when a player drives into the lane, draws defenders, and passes to an open teammate.



Just out of curiosity, how did you know he was second in the league in dunks without checking the stats?

Yeah, only every single time Wade drives into the lane (which is often) does the defense collapse on him. One of three things happen. He draws a foul, he kicks to an open shooter, or he makes a sick shot (or jam.)

And just a FYI for ya SR 7. Wade drives significantly more than Kobe.

I'm beginning to think you haven't watched a single Heat game this year.

SR 7
05-12-2009, 06:08 PM
There's this cool stat called an assist.....we started documenting them in the 60s. It often occurs when a player drives into the lane, draws defenders, and passes to an open teammate.



Just out of curiosity, how did you know he was second in the league in dunks without checking the stats?

There's this cool part of basketball called SWING the BALL AROUND. The cool part is, lakers basketball has one of hte best benches in the game and startnig 5. Sloan said the Lakers are the best team when it comes to executing their offense and getting it to the open guy with an extra pass. So what makes you think the first guy kobe passes to is going to take the shot when another defender will come to defend ariza for example which makes the PF open now. its called HELP defense and by having 2 defenders on one and one scrambling to the new open guy is called BREAKING down taht HELP defense. The cool part is also that they all make that extra pass to get that extra easy shot. Its called learn something about ball before you come preaching ur junk to me.

I meant his FG % would be misleading if u just checked stats not his DUNKS. I knew someone would get confused on it. thats why i dont' want to waste my time with this convo, people are too predictable for me.

SR 7
05-12-2009, 06:21 PM
look at the players defending kobe compared to wade.
Bowen 4 times a year, lebron 2 times a year, battier and artest 4 times a year, Bell up until the trade 4 times a year, etc. has ANYONE of those guys ever defended Wade? If so, how often? Why is kobe known as the best player in teh NBA and Jordan himself called Kobe the best player on earth and not wade? why does artest battier bowen always talk about defending kobe and not wade?

Have you seen Kobe play defense? go watch that sunday game a few weeks back where the offensive player made 3 shots in a row kobe switched to defend him and the guy didn't pass the 40 ft mark. He couldn't even recah the 3 point line and Gundy and Jackson said this is why he is the best defending G and if you want to drool you watch that clip. Those are words from a all time great PG and a coach. Now you tell me if you know better then they do. have a nice day.

R_t_Kraken
05-12-2009, 07:12 PM
Yes all of those guys you named have defended Wade. You are aware that the Western and Eastern conference play eachother every year right? Shane Battier is who injured Wade's shoulder in 07.

I don't deny Kobe is a really good defender. But Wade was better this season. I'd say he's an average on the ball defender but he is the best shot blocking guard in the league, and second (only to Chris Paul) in steals.

Wade became the only player in NBA history to record at least 2,000 points, 500 assists, 150 steals and 100 blocks during a single season. He capped off the 2008-09 season as the only player in the league to amass at least 100(106 total) blocks and 100(173 total) steals, also becoming the only player in NBA history 6’4” or under to block at least 100 shots in a single season. Additionally, he blocked the potential game-winning shot on eight different occasions this season, five under 21.6 seconds remaining in the fourth quarter and three in overtime.

:3w:

R_t_Kraken
05-12-2009, 07:18 PM
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SR 7
05-12-2009, 07:27 PM
i never said wade isnt a good defender.
or a player.

I said he is no where near kobes level as far as complete player. Kobe is putting up a fight and possibly the strongest fight in being hte best player to play along with Jordan.

wade is prob the bets shot blocking G i have ever seen no one denied that. You said wade is a better player then kobe and i dont agree with that. Wade is one of my favorites since his rookie year but i dont think he is close to Kobe. Lets say its a scale of 1 to 10, kobe is a 10 and wade is a 8. thats how i see it they are both great but kobe is better is my point. Wade is already most likely a HOFer if he continues this pace. You dont get taht by being avg so taht speaks volumes.

SR 7
05-12-2009, 07:33 PM
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that was teh case with kobe when they played PHX those 2 yrs in the playoffs and Nash won MVP twice. Kobe had walton, parker, kwame, and odom as his 5 compared to MARION (all star), Stoudamire (ALL STAR) Bell (good defender and shooter) etc. W/out nash they would have still won at least 45 to 50 games w/out kobe LA was a 25-30 win team those 2 yrs. And now after 2 yrs they are bringing that up and whether Nashreally deserved it or not and I dont think he did. its easy getting 9 asst a game whne you run in circles and wait for a pogo stick like marion or amare to bail u out or a dead on 3point shooter in bell, barbosa, etc. I dont thnk CLE would be where they aer w/out Lebron but MIAMI would be NO WHERE w/out Wade just as LA would have been those 2 yrs. Lebron won b/c they dominated as a team. MVP isnt best player anymore but best record with good stats gets you that. Garnett was up for consideration last year but yet he had peirce andallen along side him. I canlook good wiht those 2 players as well compared to haslem or what not

Dolphins7273
05-12-2009, 07:36 PM
Is Kobe a better player all-time than Wade? Yes. When It's all said and done, will Kobe be considered the better player? Probably. Did Kobe have a better year on either side of the ball? No.

R_t_Kraken
05-12-2009, 07:38 PM
i never said wade isnt a good defender.
or a player.

I said he is no where near kobes level as far as complete player. Kobe is putting up a fight and possibly the strongest fight in being hte best player to play along with Jordan.

wade is prob the bets shot blocking G i have ever seen no one denied that. You said wade is a better player then kobe and i dont agree with that. Wade is one of my favorites since his rookie year but i dont think he is close to Kobe. Lets say its a scale of 1 to 10, kobe is a 10 and wade is a 8. thats how i see it they are both great but kobe is better is my point. Wade is already most likely a HOFer if he continues this pace. You dont get taht by being avg so taht speaks volumes.

Wade was better than Kobe in every aspect in 2008. That's obvious to anyone, and if it isn't obvious to you, you have no objectivity.

Defensively is up for debate, but I believe with Wade's effort this year on defense on top of having to carry the load on offense for his team should have earned him first team honors, and i'm a little dissapointed he didn't. Kobe gets 1st team all defense like every year. Wade deserved to get it this year because of what he accomplished.

I never said Wade was better than Kobe all time. Kobe has accomplished more and played more so obviously in terms of all-time status he's better, probably significantly better. Kobe being better than Wade all time isn't any more debatable than Wade being better than Kobe in 08 is.

SR 7
05-12-2009, 07:59 PM
Yea like i said, Wade had an outstanding year and in this country you dont get recognition unless you are the best as a whole which i think sucks and is sad. For ex. Marino to some isnt hte best QB to play b/c he has no ring but yet Dilfer does...does taht make dilfer better or great? loll its a stupid way to judge and this country does a good job at it.

Look at Euro soccer, they said Messi has a chance to run away with the best player in the world award this year if he can play well and the team gets into the champioins league champion ship game (which they did with BS ref giving them the win) but point is they nevre said he NEEDS to win it he said by getting them there. here you have to win it all or you lose credit for aything done. its stupid. When kobe avg his 35.7 pts a game that year a few yrs ago they were 8 above .500, when jordan avg 35 they were i believe 12 games below .500 or something but kobe didnt get credit for it. when kobe scored 81 and he went off b/c they were down 21 to the raptors so he carried the team himself, some said he is a ball hog (like that douche jim rome) and others said thats teh best scoring game ever and surpassed Wilts b/c wilt played easier competition and hardly anyone was his height and all he did was dunk where as kobe was all over the court. It is what it is. Wade was considered a great once teh finals ended he became ur avg good player in teh nba. thats americas way of looking at things wehre as in soccer even after ronaldo was lke 55345 yrs old in the world cup they still gave him the respect he deserved and called him one of the best and still the best striker in some years. Here htey forget about you and dont mention you unless you break some law or get arrested.

and when wade shaved his head for the games this past summer thats how he got on ESPN b/c it was a sign of being serious and concentrating on the Gold they wnt but had he not shaved it espn wouldn't have bothered probably. its pathetic they only go for what can stir up news and drama. instead of eitehr way interviewing him bc he is soo good and he is playing with james, carmelo and kobe i twas b/c of his hair. thats why to a degree it sucks playing here cuz they dont' give you credit for what you have done only for what you are currently dong that very second.

eric1589
05-12-2009, 10:20 PM
i think wade got robbed.
they should just call these awards, popularity contests.they are all about votes. not facts.

Ferretsquig
05-12-2009, 11:39 PM
I meant his FG % would be misleading if u just checked stats not his DUNKS. I knew someone would get confused on it. thats why i dont' want to waste my time with this convo, people are too predictable for me.

I'm pretty confident that a record of dunks made by a player is generally referred to as a statistic. In Bynum's case he attempted 105 dunks and made 100. We have other statistics to further refine the argument, such as Bynum's FG% from outside 5 ft, inside, on tipped shots, on assisted buckets, and on those he created for himself. So no.....the statistics are not very misleading so long as you choose to put a little bit more thought into them.

Dolphins7273
05-13-2009, 03:02 PM
Well, at least Wade made all-nba first. Though he should have been first on defense as well.

http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=4326

R_t_Kraken
05-13-2009, 04:43 PM
Well, at least Wade made all-nba first. Though he should have been first on defense as well.

http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=4326

he got less first team votes than Kobe still. sad.

j-off-her-doll
05-17-2009, 11:33 AM
This discussion went from a potential All NBA Team discussion to commenting on the official All NBA Defensive Team, but I didn't see anyone acknowledge the shift.

Also, for the Kobe vs. Wade discussion, Kobe has more tools, but Wade is a more dynamic in terms of penetration, and he's a much smarter player than Kobe. Jordan was never a good shooter beyond 18-20 ft. Wade is more like Jordan - than Kobe - in that he goes and gets the shot he wants instead of settling for long fade aways. Players aren't defined by what they can and can't do; they're defined by what they actually do. Wade understand basketball more than Kobe. I'm actually shocked that more people don't rip on Kobe for his lack of understanding.

Fin_Frenzy_84
05-17-2009, 04:34 PM
A Bulls fan who wants 4 Bulls on the ALL NBA team. :chuckle:

I didnt say i wanted 4 of them on there, but I think 1 of them should of made it

dominizzo
05-17-2009, 04:59 PM
wheres Deron Williams?

dreday
05-20-2009, 11:27 PM
wheres Deron Williams?

You call?

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2009/05/3448davidsternafter-1.jpg (http://www.hotchyx.com/)

SpurzN703
05-21-2009, 09:29 AM
I didnt say i wanted 4 of them on there, but I think 1 of them should of made it

Understood

Amars
05-21-2009, 06:11 PM
Cmon Wade plays in the freakin East. Put him in the west and those numbers are way low. Heat wont even make the playoffs in the west. Maybe a 8 seed if they are lucky.

R_t_Kraken
05-21-2009, 07:36 PM
Cmon Wade plays in the freakin East. Put him in the west and those numbers are way low. Heat wont even make the playoffs in the west. Maybe a 8 seed if they are lucky.

Why would his numbers decrease in the West?

Dolphins7273
05-21-2009, 08:23 PM
Cmon Wade plays in the freakin East. Put him in the west and those numbers are way low. Heat wont even make the playoffs in the west. Maybe a 8 seed if they are lucky.

Sure...

R_t_Kraken
05-21-2009, 10:37 PM
Sure...

It's funny because i'd say the east has the edge as far as defensive teams. You got Cleveland, Boston, Orlando, Detroit, Atlanta. In the west, San Antonio, Houston, who else?