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BAMAPHIN 22
06-09-2009, 02:32 PM
He’s done it while talking about abortion and the Middle East, even the economy. The references serve at once as an affirmation of his faith and a rebuke against a rumor that persists for some to this day.

As president, Barack Obama has mentioned Jesus Christ in a number of high-profile public speeches - something his predecessor George W. Bush rarely did in such settings, even though Bush’s Christian faith was at the core of his political identity.

In his speech Thursday in Cairo, Obama told the crowd that he is a Christian and mentioned the Islamic story of Isra, in which Moses, Jesus and Mohammed joined in prayer.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/09/politics/politico/main5074470.shtml

Dolphin39
06-09-2009, 11:12 PM
Words are worthless without actions. Obama is not a Christian.

God's word says that many will claim to know him (but truly don't), and says he will say depart, for you never knew me.

Tetragrammaton
06-10-2009, 01:04 AM
It becomes pretty clear to anyone that listens to Obama that he is an atheist. In a more reasonable political atmosphere, he would be able to admit it, but alas, he cannot.

Cassiopeia
06-10-2009, 06:43 PM
Words are worthless without actions. Obama is not a Christian.

God's word says that many will claim to know him (but truly don't), and says he will say depart, for you never knew me.

this is a good example of why i don't attend church anymore. i can't believe i just read this...

Dolphin39
06-11-2009, 08:35 AM
this is a good example of why i don't attend church anymore. i can't believe i just read this...

Facts:

1. Obama supports abortion (killing innocent unborn babies)
2. Obama claims there are many ways to heaven.
3. Christians believe salvation is ONLY through accepting Jesus as Savior.
4. Obama does not oppose the homosexual agenda.
5. Obama's pastor is an anti-Jew, racist, who married the Obama's and baptized their children.

Believe it!

PATSSUCK
06-11-2009, 08:48 AM
I believe most christians are not true believers. They are just people that want to feel morally superior to others and be able to judge them. Most christians dont know the true god. The true christian I have met are good, humble, loving people, who may not accept what you do, but realize that they have sinned just as much and that they are not in a position to cast judgement. God sees all sins the same and passing judgement is a sin as well. You cant tell you neighbor about the splint in his eye when you have a plank in yours.

Dolphan7
06-11-2009, 12:33 PM
I believe most christians are not true believers. They are just people that want to feel morally superior to others and be able to judge them. Most christians dont know the true god. The true christian I have met are good, humble, loving people, who may not accept what you do, but realize that they have sinned just as much and that they are not in a position to cast judgement. God sees all sins the same and passing judgement is a sin as well. You cant tell you neighbor about the splint in his eye when you have a plank in yours.Just curious...where does Obama fall in your grouping of true believers and non-believers?

You make a good and valid point here, but I hesitate to make the same distinctions you have. I don't know the heart of any man but my own, so for me to say most christians are not true believers would imply I knew their hearts - Only God knows the heart of a man. Having said that I do believe that some christians do not act in the manner they should, but that is their actions, not their faith, that you are seeing.

Jesus said that we will know "them" by their fruit, meaning we will know who is following Jesus by the way they live their life, according to His teaching (Mat 7:15-29). He gives us the ability to know who is the real deal and who isn't. That isn't judging. Jesus gives us clear guidelines on how to treat fellow christians, especially when they are out of line (Mat 18:15-20). That isn't judging, but christian discipline. Holding a christian accountable to their faith is required of all of us. It helps grow the body of christ, it helps purify it.

Obama may be a christian, but he is very much a man of the world as well. Jesus tells us that we cannot serve two masters (Mat 6:24). We will either follow one or the other, but not both. Obama is walking a very thin line, trying to pacify both sides. By doing that he is becoming luke warm. Calling him on his actions as a christian is very much in line with Mat 18. I would hope that someone close to him is doing just that, but I doubt it.

HansMojo
06-11-2009, 03:36 PM
Just curious...where does Obama fall in your grouping of true believers and non-believers?

You make a good and valid point here, but I hesitate to make the same distinctions you have. I don't know the heart of any man but my own, so for me to say most christians are not true believers would imply I knew their hearts - Only God knows the heart of a man. Having said that I do believe that some christians do not act in the manner they should, but that is their actions, not their faith, that you are seeing.

Jesus said that we will know "them" by their fruit, meaning we will know who is following Jesus by the way they live their life, according to His teaching (Mat 7:15-29). He gives us the ability to know who is the real deal and who isn't. That isn't judging. Jesus gives us clear guidelines on how to treat fellow christians, especially when they are out of line (Mat 18:15-20). That isn't judging, but christian discipline. Holding a christian accountable to their faith is required of all of us. It helps grow the body of christ, it helps purify it.

Obama may be a christian, but he is very much a man of the world as well. Jesus tells us that we cannot serve two masters (Mat 6:24). We will either follow one or the other, but not both. Obama is walking a very thin line, trying to pacify both sides. By doing that he is becoming luke warm. Calling him on his actions as a christian is very much in line with Mat 18. I would hope that someone close to him is doing just that, but I doubt it.

I agree that no one can know that heart of another person which is why I thanked you for your post. It is an excellent point to make. Judging someone's faith is a definite no no IMHO. I also agree that Christian's have a duty to call out wrong acts of other Christians under the provisions provided in the Bible...but I see this as something done within the body of the church and it is to edify and not to tear down.

I think that Obama is trying to be a President to a nation that has both religious and non-religious citizens and this in and of itself is a precarious position to be in. I am personally thankful that we do not live in a theocracy since the only time I think this is going to work is when God is directly calling the shots and when the people within that theocracy are there voluntarily (we will have this in the next life).

I think that Churches should be free to preach the word or God and even enforce Biblical principles upon it's congregation (i.e. not allowing homosexuals into ministry etc.) however, I don't feel this governance should extend beyond the church and of course, if a member doesn't like the rules of a specific church, they should be free to leave and find a different one.

I am not supportive of laws that are basically enforcements of religious principals on the non-religious. I support Obama in principle in this, though I have to say, I find myself disagreeing with his decisions a lot more than I anticipated I would before the election.

Obama has done many things in his life, and at times at great personal sacrifice in service to others. That, combined with his profession of faith, identify him as a Christian in my book. But of course, only God knows the heart and it is not our place to judge this...IMHO.

Dolphan7
06-11-2009, 04:08 PM
I agree that no one can know that heart of another person which is why I thanked you for your post. It is an excellent point to make. Judging someone's faith is a definite no no IMHO. I also agree that Christian's have a duty to call out wrong acts of other Christians under the provisions provided in the Bible...but I see this as something done within the body of the church and it is to edify and not to tear down.

I think that Obama is trying to be a President to a nation that has both religious and non-religious citizens and this in and of itself is a precarious position to be in. I am personally thankful that we do not live in a theocracy since the only time I think this is going to work is when God is directly calling the shots and when the people within that theocracy are there voluntarily (we will have this in the next life).

I think that Churches should be free to preach the word or God and even enforce Biblical principles upon it's congregation (i.e. not allowing homosexuals into ministry etc.) however, I don't feel this governance should extend beyond the church and of course, if a member doesn't like the rules of a specific church, they should be free to leave and find a different one.

I am not supportive of laws that are basically enforcements of religious principals on the non-religious. I support Obama in principle in this, though I have to say, I find myself disagreeing with his decisions a lot more than I anticipated I would before the election.

Obama has done many things in his life, and at times at great personal sacrifice in service to others. That, combined with his profession of faith, identify him as a Christian in my book. But of course, only God knows the heart and it is not our place to judge this...IMHO.I think we have reached a point in time where an atheist or agnostic can lead our country of religionists just fine (I hope), but I feel that a christian cannot in all good conscience lead a nation that vehemenantly seeks to keep secular government separated from religion, not without compromising his values. This is why Bush had such a rough presidency, and why Obama is facing some major struggles himself.

HansMojo
06-11-2009, 05:01 PM
I think we have reached a point in time where an atheist or agnostic can lead our country of religionists just fine (I hope), but I feel that a christian cannot in all good conscience lead a nation that vehemenantly seeks to keep secular government separated from religion, not without compromising his values. This is why Bush had such a rough presidency, and why Obama is facing some major struggles himself.
I understand your point, but I think it is possible for a Christian to lead this nation, while maintaining a separation of church and state without compromising his/her values...though it would certainly not be an easy task and would require the person to have a very close relationship with God. I know I wouldn't want the job.

I don't believe God compromises His values by allowing humans to choose to lead secular or religious lives and I think government should do the same. God values free will and legislating religious morality can be discriminatory and is a step in the wrong direction IMHO. When Rome became a Christian theocracy, well, I think you and I agree that this led to a lot more negative outcomes than good. When Moses ran the Hebrew theocracy he had God Himself giving him hand written memos...and he still managed to screw things up from time to time.

IMO, our churches should be free to preach the word, and government should ensure that people have the right to chose to follow religious principles or not. *Freedom of religion and freedom from religion* God will sort it all out in the end...IMHO.

Dolphan7
06-11-2009, 05:24 PM
I understand your point, but I think it is possible for a Christian to lead this nation, while maintaining a separation of church and state without compromising his/her values...though it would certainly not be an easy task and would require the person to have a very close relationship with God. I know I wouldn't want the job.

I don't believe God compromises His values by allowing humans to choose to lead secular or religious lives and I think government should do the same. God values free will and legislating religious morality can be discriminatory and is a step in the wrong direction IMHO. When Rome became a Christian theocracy, well, I think you and I agree that this led to a lot more negative outcomes than good. When Moses ran the Hebrew theocracy he had God Himself giving him hand written memos...and he still managed to screw things up from time to time.

IMO, our churches should be free to preach the word, and government should ensure that people have the right to chose to follow religious principles or not. *Freedom of religion and freedom from religion* God will sort it all out in the end...IMHO.
Yeah...I wouldn't want to be POTUS either.

PATSSUCK
06-11-2009, 07:25 PM
Just curious...where does Obama fall in your grouping of true believers and non-believers?

You make a good and valid point here, but I hesitate to make the same distinctions you have. I don't know the heart of any man but my own, so for me to say most christians are not true believers would imply I knew their hearts - Only God knows the heart of a man. Having said that I do believe that some christians do not act in the manner they should, but that is their actions, not their faith, that you are seeing.

Jesus said that we will know "them" by their fruit, meaning we will know who is following Jesus by the way they live their life, according to His teaching (Mat 7:15-29). He gives us the ability to know who is the real deal and who isn't. That isn't judging. Jesus gives us clear guidelines on how to treat fellow christians, especially when they are out of line (Mat 18:15-20). That isn't judging, but christian discipline. Holding a christian accountable to their faith is required of all of us. It helps grow the body of christ, it helps purify it.

Obama may be a christian, but he is very much a man of the world as well. Jesus tells us that we cannot serve two masters (Mat 6:24). We will either follow one or the other, but not both. Obama is walking a very thin line, trying to pacify both sides. By doing that he is becoming luke warm. Calling him on his actions as a christian is very much in line with Mat 18. I would hope that someone close to him is doing just that, but I doubt it.

Yea I may have gone to far with the "most christians are not true believers" thing. I am sorry for that. As for Obama, I dont think he really is a christian at all. I agree with Westward, I think he is an atheist.

Dolphan7
06-11-2009, 07:44 PM
Yea I may have gone to far with the "most christians are not true believers" thing. I am sorry for that. As for Obama, I dont think he really is a christian at all. I agree with Westward, I think he is an atheist.No need to apologize. We are just having a discussion here that's all.

I don't think Obama is an atheist. I think he says and wants to be christian, but I don't think he takes it very seriously from what I have seen from his actions and how he displays himself. He tries to placate all sides and when you do that, you stand for none. He may very well believe very deeply and sincerely the christian values of our faith, but I think he is afraid to show that.

Cassiopeia
06-11-2009, 08:39 PM
Facts:

1. Obama supports abortion (killing innocent unborn babies)
2. Obama claims there are many ways to heaven.
3. Christians believe salvation is ONLY through accepting Jesus as Savior.
4. Obama does not oppose the homosexual agenda.
5. Obama's pastor is an anti-Jew, racist, who married the Obama's and baptized their children.

Believe it!

i'm fully aware of the christian teachings. my point was the fact that your statement is extremely judgmental. you want to know why faith is waning in this country? look in the mirror. people can't stand to go to a place where someone thinks they know everything about them just because of their political views. homosexual agenda? seriously? and then you go and try to accuse someone else of being racist right after that? the only difference between a racist and your disdain for homosexuals is that a racist hates someone due to skin color, and you hate them because of their sexual orientation.

PATSSUCK
06-11-2009, 10:18 PM
No need to apologize. We are just having a discussion here that's all.

I don't think Obama is an atheist. I think he says and wants to be christian, but I don't think he takes it very seriously from what I have seen from his actions and how he displays himself. He tries to placate all sides and when you do that, you stand for none. He may very well believe very deeply and sincerely the christian values of our faith, but I think he is afraid to show that.

It also leads to failed presidency. I dont understand why he has not seen that this is a trend in presidential history. None of the truely great presidents were panders.

Dolphan7
06-11-2009, 10:38 PM
i'm fully aware of the christian teachings. my point was the fact that your statement is extremely judgmental. you want to know why faith is waning in this country? look in the mirror. people can't stand to go to a place where someone thinks they know everything about them just because of their political views. homosexual agenda? seriously? and then you go and try to accuse someone else of being racist right after that? the only difference between a racist and your disdain for homosexuals is that a racist hates someone due to skin color, and you hate them because of their sexual orientation.
Why do you assume that Dolphin39 hates homoexuals. Not approving of this behavior or lifestyle does not equate to hatred.

Cassiopeia
06-12-2009, 05:05 PM
Why do you assume that Dolphin39 hates homoexuals. Not approving of this behavior or lifestyle does not equate to hatred.

i suppose you're right. unfortunately its been my experience that you are in the minority of christians when it comes to things like this. while you don't judge, yet maintain your beliefs, the vast majority of christians i know are very different. maybe i was wrong to assume he hates gays, but it wouldn't surprise me if he harbors at least some level of resentment towards them. the word agenda tells me a lot about his opinion towards them...

Dolphan7
06-12-2009, 06:31 PM
i suppose you're right. unfortunately its been my experience that you are in the minority of christians when it comes to things like this. while you don't judge, yet maintain your beliefs, the vast majority of christians i know are very different. maybe i was wrong to assume he hates gays, but it wouldn't surprise me if he harbors at least some level of resentment towards them. the word agenda tells me a lot about his opinion towards them...I am sure that if you would inquire more, you would find that christians may hate the sin, and hate the "agenda", and hate the constant attacking of people with values who are opposed to this lifestyle, they really don't hate the person. Christians care for thier salvation just as much as anyone, and can accept that some people will reject Christ, and can live with these facts. The rub comes when Christians are attacked and ridiculed and called homophobes, backwards, oppressive, haters, trying to "force" their beliefs on people ...etc.......

.....ever been involved in one of those conversations? Ever said some of those things?

Then you undestand where I am coming from. Let bygones be bygones, but both sides have to stand down for that to happen.

ih8brady
06-14-2009, 07:07 PM
So what is homophobia to you? Are there scenarios where such accusations are false?

Cassiopeia
06-14-2009, 08:24 PM
I am sure that if you would inquire more, you would find that christians may hate the sin, and hate the "agenda", and hate the constant attacking of people with values who are opposed to this lifestyle, they really don't hate the person. Christians care for thier salvation just as much as anyone, and can accept that some people will reject Christ, and can live with these facts. The rub comes when Christians are attacked and ridiculed and called homophobes, backwards, oppressive, haters, trying to "force" their beliefs on people ...etc.......

.....ever been involved in one of those conversations? Ever said some of those things?

Then you undestand where I am coming from. Let bygones be bygones, but both sides have to stand down for that to happen.

i will admit that some christians, such as yourself, don't hate the person, but the sin. but, even you have to admit, you are one of a few who see it that way. why i took offense to dolphin39 saying agenda is that it implies that there is some sinister plot being put in motion by gays. the tone of the statement speaks volumes for his opinion on the matter.

as for if i've ever had one of those conversations, of course i have. when someone tells me i'm a sinner because i'm bisexual, i'm going to argue. its hard not to characterize christians that way when my entire life, i've been treated like i'm an abomination. however, you're absolutely right. both sides need to stand down. you're a good example of that. i'm able to have a civilized conversation with you because neither of us are attacking each other's beliefs. it would be nice if the entire world followed suit.

Dolphan7
06-15-2009, 12:18 PM
So what is homophobia to you? Are there scenarios where such accusations are false?Sure I think there are scenarios that are false. I would think I am one of those.

Those people you see, and the media reports on, that are standing outside some venue picketing with signs that say "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve", and "Gays are going to hell", and the rest.....these are the exceptions. Most christians don't involve themselves in picket lines and confrontational meetings and such. What you are seeing is an exception to the norm.

Think about it. There are over 2 billion christians in the world. And the news portrays maybe a few hundred at these rallies, and interview a few on the news? Yet the christian canvas is painted with the widest brush possible.

A few give the rest a bad name.

Dolphan7
06-15-2009, 12:53 PM
i will admit that some christians, such as yourself, don't hate the person, but the sin. but, even you have to admit, you are one of a few who see it that way. why i took offense to dolphin39 saying agenda is that it implies that there is some sinister plot being put in motion by gays. the tone of the statement speaks volumes for his opinion on the matter.

as for if i've ever had one of those conversations, of course i have. when someone tells me i'm a sinner because i'm bisexual, i'm going to argue. its hard not to characterize christians that way when my entire life, i've been treated like i'm an abomination. however, you're absolutely right. both sides need to stand down. you're a good example of that. i'm able to have a civilized conversation with you because neither of us are attacking each other's beliefs. it would be nice if the entire world followed suit.You are the first openly gay/bisexual person that has posted on these boards in a long long time so I appreciate your input and the opportunity to converse with you.:up:

I think I have said this in here before but it is worth repeating.

We are all sinners. Being gay all by itself does not separate one from God. A gay person could go straight tomorrow and still be a sinner and therefore separated from God. It is what we do with Jesus that is the important thing.

God looks at the world and sees two types of people. Those who accept Jesus, and those who don't, in a nutshell. Being gay is simply one way we keep ourselves from God. There are many others.

Oh... and regarding the "agenda". Of course there is an agenda. Call it a movement, or and battle, or a fight for rights, whatever...but it is definitely
all or one of the above. It is happening in our country right now.

As a christian I oppose such a movement. That is my belief and my right to form that belief, and express it.

I also oppose abortion on demand. But that doesn't mean I hate the millions of women who seek abortions every day in this country. I simply hate the fact that it is being done and is an option in this country.

I understand the secular argument for gay rights. Equal protection under the law. Take the bible out of the picture, and I wouldn't care....and even if it is some day the law of the land for gays to marry, so be it...it is what it is. It doesn't change my belief or my life. All I ask is that people who say that gays deserve equal protection under the law, would also agree that unborn Americans also deserve that same equal protection under the same law.

Nina I am really sorry that people have treated you badly and made you feel terrible about yourself. People can be mean sometimes. People will not like some of the choices you make in life, or not like who you are or who you have become. But if you feel that you are completely sound in your choices and your life, then others opinions and attitudes shoudln't bother you and make you feel bad. If they do...then maybe just maybe it is conviction setting in? Ask your conscience. If your conscience is completely and utterly clean then what people say or think shouldn't have this effect on you, even your close family and friends. If it isn't...then maybe you should consider that maybe what you are doing, believe in, isn't where you need to be? Just a thought.

Always a pleasure conversing with you. Take care.

TedSlimmJr
06-15-2009, 01:10 PM
Even if he has a certain level of "resentment" towards a person of bisexual preference.....that doesn't make him less of a Christian....it just means he's human...

Being a Christian doesn't mean you're perfect....

That's another issue that D7 touched on to an extent....when someone claims to be a Christian...they get ridiculed and attacked and have every little thing they do or say poked and prodded and analyzed in an attempt to point out that "a Christian doesn't do that"....or "say that"....or "think that"...or "feel that"....

A Christian STRIVES to walk close to Jesus....it doesn't mean that they ARE Jesus....

Cassiopeia
06-16-2009, 02:27 PM
Even if he has a certain level of "resentment" towards a person of bisexual preference.....that doesn't make him less of a Christian....it just means he's human...

Being a Christian doesn't mean you're perfect....

That's another issue that D7 touched on to an extent....when someone claims to be a Christian...they get ridiculed and attacked and have every little thing they do or say poked and prodded and analyzed in an attempt to point out that "a Christian doesn't do that"....or "say that"....or "think that"...or "feel that"....

A Christian STRIVES to walk close to Jesus....it doesn't mean that they ARE Jesus....

oh, i see. since a christian isn't jesus, they are excused for acting in a non-christian way. makes perfect sense. :rolleyes:

Cassiopeia
06-16-2009, 02:35 PM
You are the first openly gay/bisexual person that has posted on these boards in a long long time so I appreciate your input and the opportunity to converse with you.:up:

I think I have said this in here before but it is worth repeating.

We are all sinners. Being gay all by itself does not separate one from God. A gay person could go straight tomorrow and still be a sinner and therefore separated from God. It is what we do with Jesus that is the important thing.

God looks at the world and sees two types of people. Those who accept Jesus, and those who don't, in a nutshell. Being gay is simply one way we keep ourselves from God. There are many others.

Oh... and regarding the "agenda". Of course there is an agenda. Call it a movement, or and battle, or a fight for rights, whatever...but it is definitely
all or one of the above. It is happening in our country right now.

As a christian I oppose such a movement. That is my belief and my right to form that belief, and express it.

I also oppose abortion on demand. But that doesn't mean I hate the millions of women who seek abortions every day in this country. I simply hate the fact that it is being done and is an option in this country.

I understand the secular argument for gay rights. Equal protection under the law. Take the bible out of the picture, and I wouldn't care....and even if it is some day the law of the land for gays to marry, so be it...it is what it is. It doesn't change my belief or my life. All I ask is that people who say that gays deserve equal protection under the law, would also agree that unborn Americans also deserve that same equal protection under the same law.

Nina I am really sorry that people have treated you badly and made you feel terrible about yourself. People can be mean sometimes. People will not like some of the choices you make in life, or not like who you are or who you have become. But if you feel that you are completely sound in your choices and your life, then others opinions and attitudes shoudln't bother you and make you feel bad. If they do...then maybe just maybe it is conviction setting in? Ask your conscience. If your conscience is completely and utterly clean then what people say or think shouldn't have this effect on you, even your close family and friends. If it isn't...then maybe you should consider that maybe what you are doing, believe in, isn't where you need to be? Just a thought.

Always a pleasure conversing with you. Take care.

a well-thought out and reasonable response. much appreciated. :)

the only thing i'd comment on is the point about it making me feel bad. other's opinion on the matter doesn't make me feel bad. the only reason it bothers me is because of the discrimination and verbal/physical attacks on the gay community. i have absolutely no problems admitting to anyone that i'm bisexual. in fact, most people just assume i am anyways because nick and i live an alternative lifestyle. theres absolutely no guilt or anything of the sort i feel. id go so far as to argue that i'm making a choice to be straight, not the other way around. im choosing to be engaged to nick, not date another girl. now that i think about it, outside of an occasional threesome every few months (sorry if thats inapprorpriate), i don't have any sexual encounters with women. its a pretty complex situation, no matter how i look at it...

TedSlimmJr
06-17-2009, 03:16 AM
oh, i see. since a christian isn't jesus, they are excused for acting in a non-christian way. makes perfect sense. :rolleyes:


Well, I wouldn't consider that view towards homosexuality as acting in a "non" Christian way....sexual deviation is why the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by God...

None of us are in any position of authority to judge one anothers behavior or feelings...be you Christian or non Christian...

We will all be judged on the impurities in our hearts...but we all have a means of salvation as well...through Jesus Christ...

WSE
06-17-2009, 01:47 PM
Facts:

1. Obama supports abortion (killing innocent unborn babies)
2. Obama claims there are many ways to heaven.
3. Christians believe salvation is ONLY through accepting Jesus as Savior.
4. Obama does not oppose the homosexual agenda.
5. Obama's pastor is an anti-Jew, racist, who married the Obama's and baptized their children.

Believe it!

1. Obama supports choice, not abortion
2. I guess that is a legitimate arguement. However, imo you dont have to beleive every word written in order to be a religious person.
3. Goes with two. Its the same point
4. Beleiving in people rights even though you may not personally agree with their liftstyle makes you non christian? Obama may or may not beleive in the naturalness of homosexuality- he has not and should not address that as it is not in his realm. The thing that matters to him as president is the rights for all people.
5. Religion is what you beleive, not the person speaking from the pulpit. Also, I kind of remember many people in the past being both religious and racist, as it seems Jeremiah Wright is. Hell, that represented most of the south until recently, and still represents some if it.

I really dont care if Obama is religious or not. The reasons you gave for him not being Christian though are pathetic. To me, a man who attends Christian schooling and church all those years is Christian, whether he agrees with everything or not.

I consider myself Jewish, and I dont agree with everything in the Torah.

SkapePhin
06-17-2009, 02:11 PM
I really hope we see a day that someone gets elected to office while being openly atheist or agnostic... Unfortunately, politicians cannot be open with the public regarding their true religious belief (or lack thereof) since admitting to not believing in judeo-christian mythology is political suicide in this country. But it would be quite refreshing to know that public policy isn't being determined by those who believe that fairy tales are true.

I am not trying to slight any believers here, but religious texts are no more factual than the Brothers Grimm Fairy Tales. Yes, both contain life lessons, but neither has any basis in reality.

TedSlimmJr
06-17-2009, 02:21 PM
I really hope we see a day that someone gets elected to office while being openly atheist or agnostic... Unfortunately, politicians cannot be open with the public regarding their true religious belief (or lack thereof) since admitting to not believing in judeo-christian mythology is political suicide in this country. But it would be quite refreshing to know that public policy isn't being determined by those who believe that fairy tales are true.

I am not trying to slight any believers here, but religious texts are no more factual than the Brothers Grimm Fairy Tales. Yes, both contain life lessons, but neither has any basis in reality.


Well, it's political suicide because the country was obviously founded and built upon certain principals and values....."In God we trust"...

But it also stands for freedom of choice....freedom of speech....freedom of religion...etc...

...and the right to bear arms....which is why I stay strapped...:lol:

Dolphan7
06-17-2009, 03:51 PM
I really hope we see a day that someone gets elected to office while being openly atheist or agnostic... Unfortunately, politicians cannot be open with the public regarding their true religious belief (or lack thereof) since admitting to not believing in judeo-christian mythology is political suicide in this country. But it would be quite refreshing to know that public policy isn't being determined by those who believe that fairy tales are true.

I am not trying to slight any believers here, but religious texts are no more factual than the Brothers Grimm Fairy Tales. Yes, both contain life lessons, but neither has any basis in reality.I think it is harder and harder for a Christian to attain, or seek to attain, the Office of the President of the USA. The values of a Christian and the direction the Constitution is going are two different paths. Homosexuality and abortion are two topics that pit the two paths in opposition to each other. I don't think a Christian can sit in the office and help legalize and/or support the continued practice thereof ......not without compromising those values. To say one can do both puts one in a very slippery slope imo.

I know you don't mean to offend Skape, but when you use words like judeo-christian mythology and fairy tales, it does come off as offensive to those who believe in those judeo/christian values. You may not believe it obviously, and that is fine you are entitled to your belief, but many do. Show some respect. No one is belittleing your beliefs here are they?

JG777
06-24-2009, 01:36 PM
Obama is a closet Muslim who is going to destroy this country:(

Locke
06-24-2009, 01:39 PM
Obama is a closet Muslim who is going to destroy this country:(

:rolleyes2:

aesop
06-24-2009, 03:31 PM
Obama is a closet Muslim who is going to destroy this country:(A closet Muslim? As if it would be something to be ashamed about.

JG777
06-24-2009, 06:39 PM
Nothing to be ashamed about, point is that he would have never got elected....dahhh.

aesop
06-25-2009, 11:15 AM
Nothing to be ashamed about, point is that he would have never got elected....dahhh.I'd love to see some evidence of closeted muslim worship.