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View Full Version : Vick gets 2nd chance, Vick's dogs do not.



Astrosback
07-27-2009, 07:22 PM
R.I.P. all dogs who were tortured and killed at the hands of this piece of crap.

You deserved better and Vick does not deserve this 2nd chance at the NFL.

No other elite industry would allow a pariah ex-con like Vick back in. Any other prestigious employment would have taken away his license for life, disbarred him, etc.

In my line of work, had I done what Vick did, I would have lost my securities license, insurance license and advanced financial planning designation for life. Any of you out there with careers which require licensing (doctors, lawyers, etc.) know that you also would get no 2nd chance in your industries if you had committed the atrocities which Vick committed.

Vick does NOT deserve this 2nd chance.

His dogs certainly received no such mercy.

dlockz
07-27-2009, 08:57 PM
R.I.P. all dogs who were tortured and killed at the hands of this piece of crap.

You deserved better and Vick does not deserve this 2nd chance at the NFL.

No other elite industry would allow a pariah ex-con like Vick back in. Any other prestigious employment would have taken away his license for life, disbarred him, etc.

In my line of work, had I done what Vick did, I would have lost my securities license, insurance license and advanced financial planning designation for life. Any of you out there with careers which require licensing (doctors, lawyers, etc.) know that you also would get no 2nd chance in your industries if you had committed the atrocities which Vick committed.

Vick does NOT deserve this 2nd chance.

His dogs certainly received no such mercy.



What exactly is an elite industry? would you not agree there is a logical reason why you would lose your career in your industry. There is no logical reason why he should not be allowed to play football. He committed a crime and did actual prison time unlike most dogfighters including some that never got caught in the NFL. We just had a president that had a dui so Im sure the NFL can live with a person that did his time in prison. There is not one logical reason to exclude Vick from playing in the NFL. Alot of good can happen if this is done the right way and Vick fulfills his commitment to the ASPCA. Dogfighting is not a priortity for law enforcement and most never see one day in jail for doing this horrible sport. He can actually do some good in the long run.

72champagne
07-27-2009, 09:14 PM
Wouldn't bother me if all the Vick lovers follow him to whatever team signs him so they can all have their dog strangling & goat sacrificing parties together.

dlockz
07-27-2009, 09:24 PM
Wouldn't bother me if all the Vick lovers follow him to whatever team signs him so they can all have their dog strangling & goat sacrificing parties together.


well damn then we would need to replace or pro bowl linebacker.

I dont condone dogfighting and think its horrible and should be stopped but Im also not ignorant enough to think that everyone that hunts is just some stupid redneck with a lust to shoot something.

RaboGrande24
07-27-2009, 09:37 PM
He did his time. Get over it.

aquaman54
07-27-2009, 09:48 PM
well damn then we would need to replace or pro bowl linebacker.

I dont condone dogfighting and think its horrible and should be stopped but Im also not ignorant enough to think that everyone that hunts is just some stupid redneck with a lust to shoot something.
That'd be pretty accurate though.All of the hunters I know don't do it to put food on the table.They do it so they can go around boasting how they killed the animal,and have their head hanging on their wall.They don't even hunt anymore.They "bait" an area for awhile,to where the animals don't fear,and come to feed.Then,the so-called,self labled "hunters" sit comfortably in their tree stands and have target practice.It's an awfully touchy subject(VicK).Personally,I could care less if he took another breath on this Earth.And I could care less what anyone thinks of me for thinking that.I'm probably going to hell anyways,so I don't care.

Scrap
07-27-2009, 10:11 PM
R.I.P. all dogs who were tortured and killed at the hands of this piece of crap.

You deserved better and Vick does not deserve this 2nd chance at the NFL.

No other elite industry would allow a pariah ex-con like Vick back in. Any other prestigious employment would have taken away his license for life, disbarred him, etc.

In my line of work, had I done what Vick did, I would have lost my securities license, insurance license and advanced financial planning designation for life. Any of you out there with careers which require licensing (doctors, lawyers, etc.) know that you also would get no 2nd chance in your industries if you had committed the atrocities which Vick committed.

Vick does NOT deserve this 2nd chance.

His dogs certainly received no such mercy.


I have made a personal decision to not like any team that chooses to bring him in and talk to him about playing for them. I hope the Dolphins don't look at him. If they do, I promise to honor my decision and search for another team. As a lifetime Dolfan this would be difficult.

Scrap
07-27-2009, 10:17 PM
That'd be pretty accurate though.All of the hunters I know don't do it to put food on the table.They do it so they can go around boasting how they killed the animal,and have their head hanging on their wall.They don't even hunt anymore.They "bait" an area for awhile,to where the animals don't fear,and come to feed.Then,the so-called,self labled "hunters" sit comfortably in their tree stands and have target practice.It's an awfully touchy subject(VicK).Personally,I could care less if he took another breath on this Earth.And I could care less what anyone thinks of me for thinking that.I'm probably going to hell anyways,so I don't care.

I'll go to hell with you. When we get there we could both beat the heck out of Michael Vick.

Scrap
07-27-2009, 10:19 PM
He did his time. Get over it.

He did the time a judge gave him. The judge got it wrong this time.

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 12:42 AM
What exactly is an elite industry? would you not agree there is a logical reason why you would lose your career in your industry. There is no logical reason why he should not be allowed to play football. He committed a crime and did actual prison time unlike most dogfighters including some that never got caught in the NFL. We just had a president that had a dui so Im sure the NFL can live with a person that did his time in prison. There is not one logical reason to exclude Vick from playing in the NFL. Alot of good can happen if this is done the right way and Vick fulfills his commitment to the ASPCA. Dogfighting is not a priortity for law enforcement and most never see one day in jail for doing this horrible sport. He can actually do some good in the long run.

The NFL is (should be) exactly the type of elite industry I'm talking about. Its players are cheered by millions of fans. Vick doesn't deserve the NFL opportunity again. I know the Humane Society and the ASPCA and even PETA are supporting his return to the NFL and hoping he will work with them to discourage dog fighting amongst blacks/inner-city kids but I just can't agree with his reinstatement.

If Vick was truly remorseful, he would work with the Humane Society and ASPCA without having a 2nd chance at the NFL.

The truth is that a man who can be so heartless as to do what he did to those dogs, that kind of man has no sense of remorse, no sense of compassion. If he didn't feel remorse or sorrow at the cries of those dogs over all of the years those horrors went on, then he just simply doesn't have those types of sensitivities. In short, he is a heartless *******.

Goddell is making a mockery of himself to even talk about remorse when it comes to Vick. It aint remorse, it's regret that he feels for focking up his life so badly.

And black players and fans who support Vick need to stop crying wolf. They can't support every piece of crap who does horrible things (Vick, OJ) just b/c they're black, and then expect to be taken seriously when a real injustice occurs. This is not Medgar Evers here!

P.S. I also think people who hunt (specifically shooting animals for their own entertainment) are scumbags but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 12:50 AM
I have made a personal decision to not like any team that chooses to bring him in and talk to him about playing for them. I hope the Dolphins don't look at him. If they do, I promise to honor my decision and search for another team. As a lifetime Dolfan this would be difficult.

I admire that and I have promised myself the same.

Let's just hope Vick never becomes a Phin.

P.S. I also won't be sad to see Joey Porter go. He is actually quite the scumbag himself. But hey, at least we got ASPCA spokesman Jason Taylor back on this team.:up:

dlockz
07-28-2009, 03:05 AM
The NFL is (should be) exactly the type of elite industry I'm talking about. Its players are cheered by millions of fans. Vick doesn't deserve the NFL opportunity again. I know the Humane Society and the ASPCA and even PETA are supporting his return to the NFL and hoping he will work with them to discourage dog fighting amongst blacks/inner-city kids but I just can't agree with his reinstatement.

If Vick was truly remorseful, he would work with the Humane Society and ASPCA without having a 2nd chance at the NFL.

The truth is that a man who can be so heartless as to do what he did to those dogs, that kind of man has no sense of remorse, no sense of compassion. If he didn't feel remorse or sorrow at the cries of those dogs over all of the years those horrors went on, then he just simply doesn't have those types of sensitivities. In short, he is a heartless *******.

Goddell is making a mockery of himself to even talk about remorse when it comes to Vick. It aint remorse, it's regret that he feels for focking up his life so badly.

And black players and fans who support Vick need to stop crying wolf. They can't support every piece of crap who does horrible things (Vick, OJ) just b/c they're black, and then expect to be taken seriously when a real injustice occurs. This is not Medgar Evers here!

P.S. I also think people who hunt (specifically shooting animals for their own entertainment) are scumbags but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

You have an unrealistic expectation of the NFL. Its basically the equivilant of being a modern day gladiator. A brutal spectacle for our entertainment.
This does not equate to only having the best people of character and backgrounds.

Your equating Vick with a man that murdered his wife is just so far off base that its almost not worth going there. Its like equating a hunter with the DC Sniper. Vick did nothing that is not a commonality in dog fighting. Losing Dogs die, there is no retirement plan for dogs that fight. Its a horrible spectacle but its not like Vick was a rogue dogfighter and every other dogfighter never killed dogs. Im a huge doglover and would kill a person over my dog and would never just let someone harm a dog while I was around if I could help it. I still dont equate what he did to killing humans.
Dogfighting is a culture that is not based on race and nobody is making Vick out to be some kind of great person because of it.

I would like to know how he would be more remorseful if he decided not to play again. You do realize he still has to earn a living and his skill lends itself to football. So far he is doing all the right things and has said he will work with the ASPCA. Most people do not truly show remorse or change thier life until they get caught doing something wrong. I have no problem with giving people another chance unless they are a murderer of people or repeatedly mess up after they get another chance. The man lost more money than most will ever see in a lifetime and served two years in prison. Not less than thirty days for killing a person. Not probation for running over three children and leaving them there to die. Yes believe it or not there are worse people than Vick and most did not serve any time.


Also White and Black people seem to support the reinstatement of Vick at fairly equal levels so not sure where your racial angle is coming from.

#42warfieldman
07-28-2009, 09:28 AM
He did his time. Get over it.
this is true!time paid for the crime.

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 10:02 AM
You have an unrealistic expectation of the NFL. Its basically the equivilant of being a modern day gladiator. A brutal spectacle for our entertainment.
This does not equate to only having the best people of character and backgrounds.

Your equating Vick with a man that murdered his wife is just so far off base that its almost not worth going there. Its like equating a hunter with the DC Sniper. Vick did nothing that is not a commonality in dog fighting. Losing Dogs die, there is no retirement plan for dogs that fight. Its a horrible spectacle but its not like Vick was a rogue dogfighter and every other dogfighter never killed dogs. Im a huge doglover and would kill a person over my dog and would never just let someone harm a dog while I was around if I could help it. I still dont equate what he did to killing humans.
Dogfighting is a culture that is not based on race and nobody is making Vick out to be some kind of great person because of it.

I would like to know how he would be more remorseful if he decided not to play again. You do realize he still has to earn a living and his skill lends itself to football. So far he is doing all the right things and has said he will work with the ASPCA. Most people do not truly show remorse or change thier life until they get caught doing something wrong. I have no problem with giving people another chance unless they are a murderer of people or repeatedly mess up after they get another chance. The man lost more money than most will ever see in a lifetime and served two years in prison. Not less than thirty days for killing a person. Not probation for running over three children and leaving them there to die. Yes believe it or not there are worse people than Vick and most did not serve any time.


Also White and Black people seem to support the reinstatement of Vick at fairly equal levels so not sure where your racial angle is coming from.


Only comaring OJ and Vick in terms of black criminals unworthy of the support of the black community. Agree that killing Ron Goldman and the ex-wife was even worse than Vick's dog torturing. They're both still sick *******s.

And the point about Vick's work with the ASPCA or Humane Society is that I bet that if the NFL had banned him for life, he wouldn't even be considering that community service. Hell, he'd probably go kick a dog in frustration.

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 10:17 AM
this is true!time paid for the crime.


Sure Warfield, and how about the dogs - where's their 2nd chance?

Tell me; what has Mike Vick done to earn your support?

PhinzN703
07-28-2009, 10:18 AM
Keep Vick off this team please

Eclypse13
07-28-2009, 10:58 AM
I hope you same people that whine and cry over Vick being allowed back into the NFL after serving his time for killing some animals also scream that players who have shot or killed PEOPLE while driving drunk shouldnt be in the game and refuse to follow any team that signs them as well.

dlockz
07-28-2009, 11:16 AM
Only comaring OJ and Vick in terms of black criminals unworthy of the support of the black community. Agree that killing Ron Goldman and the ex-wife was even worse than Vick's dog torturing. They're both still sick *******s.

And the point about Vick's work with the ASPCA or Humane Society is that I bet that if the NFL had banned him for life, he wouldn't even be considering that community service. Hell, he'd probably go kick a dog in frustration.


He might who knows. Im sure if alot of people that did wrong were not given second chances that they would see no value in showing remorse. The important thing is he is going to do things for the ASPCA and it could make a differance in the long run. He is doing alot more for the ASPCA than other players in the NFL that did not get caught and there are probably a few on every NFL team including ours. There is a big differance in a person committing a crime that actually affects whether they should be allowed to do a certain job. There are certain jobs where character is actually public trust are paramount to the job such as police officer or such but football player is definately not one of these jobs.

dlockz
07-28-2009, 11:28 AM
still wondering why noone is giving up on the phins because they signed three time duier JD Quinn.

FinFrenzy
07-28-2009, 11:36 AM
He did his time he is free to walk the earth.

I do agree however he shouldn't be allowed to return to the NFL.

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 11:50 AM
Why shouldn't Vick be allowed back? If it's bc he was convited of a felony, there are lots of people with felony charges running around the NFL. People talk about the dogs...what about people like Ray Lewis and Dante Stallworth who were actually invovled in the death of HUMANS! A lot of people dispute the Lewis thing bc he was only convicted of obstruction of justice....if you want to argue semantics, Vick was only convicted of gambling and racketeering. Get over it people.

FinFrenzy
07-28-2009, 11:55 AM
Why shouldn't Vick be allowed back? If it's bc he was convited of a felony, there are lots of people with felony charges running around the NFL. People talk about the dogs...what about people like Ray Lewis and Dante Stallworth who were actually invovled in the death of HUMANS! A lot of people dispute the Lewis thing bc he was only convicted of obstruction of justice....if you want to argue semantics, Vick was only convicted of gambling and racketeering. Get over it people.

I agree, kick out all the felons then. They are role models for our youth...

I say goodbye to all of them then.

Lewis wasn't convicted, even though most of us think he should have been but that's the justice system

Dante's episode has just started, we have to wait for the court date.

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 12:03 PM
Lewis pled guilty! That's not a conviction? I hate people saying that these guys are role models....you can teach kids to model the way the play after certain players. Not their lives. As a father of 2 young kids, one thing I have learned is that I and my wife are the role modles. Not some guy on TV. If people would wake up and realize that they're children are always watching them and their actions maybe we wouldn't have so many screwed up youth in this country.

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 12:08 PM
He might who knows. Im sure if alot of people that did wrong were not given second chances that they would see no value in showing remorse. The important thing is he is going to do things for the ASPCA and it could make a differance in the long run. He is doing alot more for the ASPCA than other players in the NFL that did not get caught and there are probably a few on every NFL team including ours. There is a big differance in a person committing a crime that actually affects whether they should be allowed to do a certain job. There are certain jobs where character is actually public trust are paramount to the job such as police officer or such but football player is definately not one of these jobs.


Well, JT is a spokesman for the ASPCA and it didn't take him killing 100 dogs and wanting to get a league suspension lifted to do that good deed.

As for the NFL job, you made a point earlier about entertainers not being held to the same ethical standards as doctors or lawyers or other professionals who carry licenses or need the public trust and this is an interesting point.

But I think we can break it down like this - an entertainer who does not rely on any "league" (such as a singer, rapper, artists) - really can't be held to any higher ethical standard b/c as long as he/she is out of jail, he/she could perform and have the fans who would still take them (see Jay-Z who was also probably involved in dog fighting).

But an entertainer like Michael Vick (or any other NFL player) CAN indeed be held to a higher if the league in which the need to perform would hold them to this higher standard i.e.) ban guys like Vick, Leonard Little, Lawrence Phillips, Pacman, etc. for LIFE.

This private league does hold this power. It just hasn't been exercized under Tagliabu and now with Goddell, he is still bowing to pressure from morons aound the league and morons like Tony Dungy who are being supportive of a Vick return.

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 12:14 PM
I hope you same people that whine and cry over Vick being allowed back into the NFL after serving his time for killing some animals also scream that players who have shot or killed PEOPLE while driving drunk shouldnt be in the game and refuse to follow any team that signs them as well.


I for one have always maintained (even before the Vick incident) that Leonard Little should have been banned for life. Little case was as clear cut as you get for me as he had multiple DUIs with one being a manslaughter. I have always said that I can't imagine how the widower of the woman (and mother) killed by Little must feel every Sunday when thousands of STL fans cheer for him and his sacks. A total disgrace and shame!

I've always maintained that guys who just do one stupid thing after another, again and again, (see Lawrence Phillips, Pacman types) should also eventually get banned for life.

In Stallworth's case, he didn't have a history but that's just too bad as that (manslaughter) is the risk everyone who drives drunk takes. No, I don't think Stallworth's act was malicious, but none the less, a DUI manslaughter should = automatic ban for life. This rule also would hopefully serve as a deterrent for others.

Clipse
07-28-2009, 12:16 PM
Stallworth kills a man and gets 30 days in jail. Why don't all these dog lovers go harp on that issue. I love dogs, but my god, Vick has payed his dues in jail. People act like he was torturing humans for god's sake. What he did wasn't right, but the man has payed for it with jailtime, as well as losing millions of dollars and going bankrupt. He deserves a 2nd chance, as does everybody else.

To sum it all up, Vick has payed for his crime, leave the man alone. Go jump on Stallworth's back or something.

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 12:19 PM
Why shouldn't Vick be allowed back? If it's bc he was convited of a felony, there are lots of people with felony charges running around the NFL. People talk about the dogs...what about people like Ray Lewis and Dante Stallworth who were actually invovled in the death of HUMANS! A lot of people dispute the Lewis thing bc he was only convicted of obstruction of justice....if you want to argue semantics, Vick was only convicted of gambling and racketeering. Get over it people.


Because of the nature of Vick's malicious, heartless, sick crimes. DUI manslaughter (Leonard Little, Stallworth) should also be worthy of a lifetime ban.

Ray Lewis's case was complicated but had he been convicted of conspiracy to commit manslaughter or murder, then that should have also been worthy of a lifetime ban. Conviction of obstruction of justice which involved a murder case should have at the very least put him on a NFL probationary status for life.

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 12:24 PM
Stallworth kills a man and gets 30 days in jail. Why don't all these dog lovers go harp on that issue. I love dogs, but my god, Vick has payed his dues in jail. People act like he was torturing humans for god's sake. What he did wasn't right, but the man has payed for it with jailtime, as well as losing millions of dollars and going bankrupt. He deserves a 2nd chance, as does everybody else.

To sum it all up, Vick has payed for his crime, leave the man alone. Go jump on Stallworth's back or something.


Again, did Vick give those dogs who lost fights a 2nd chance? Did he show them any mercy?

Nobody wants to deny Vick a 2nd chance at life and an ordinary job for which he might be qualified (construction?).

We're just saying he doesn't deserve a 2nd chance at the priveledge of playing in the NFL.

Just as if I had done what he did, I would not get a 2nd chance at my career which requires licensing and being held to a higher ethical standard. Nope, I would be out looking for blue collar work right now.

Ya think Bernie Madoff is going to get a 2nd chance to sell stocks?

P.S. What do you like so much about Vick to support him?

FinFrenzy
07-28-2009, 12:26 PM
Lewis pled guilty! That's not a conviction? I hate people saying that these guys are role models....you can teach kids to model the way the play after certain players. Not their lives. As a father of 2 young kids, one thing I have learned is that I and my wife are the role modles. Not some guy on TV. If people would wake up and realize that they're children are always watching them and their actions maybe we wouldn't have so many screwed up youth in this country.


Forgot about that, your right he shouldn't be allowed to play either!

As a father of 2 sons I am their role model also. I am involved 100% in their lives. I have a business suffering in today's economy, I send them to private school and had to stock shelves at night last year to afford it. If I went to prison for several years for dog fighting, my family would have lost everything. I understand that so I don't do things that could harm my family or my life. These athletes are people too I agree, but they are also celebrities which bring big money and the spotlight. If they can't handle it goodriddens. They are blessed with a gift which most of us can't do, if they don't appreciate it so be it.

Most celebrities criminal sentences are ridiculous in the first place due to their popularity.

FinFrenzy
07-28-2009, 12:32 PM
I hope you same people that whine and cry over Vick being allowed back into the NFL after serving his time for killing some animals also scream that players who have shot or killed PEOPLE while driving drunk shouldnt be in the game and refuse to follow any team that signs them as well.

Not just Vick, any player that is a current member of the NFL that convicts a Felony and is convicted should be barred from the league.

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 12:34 PM
Forgot about that, your right he shouldn't be allowed to play either!

As a father of 2 sons I am their role model also. I am involved 100% in their lives. I have a business suffering in today's economy, I send them to private school and had to stock shelves at night last year to afford it. If I went to prison for several years for dog fighting, my family would have lost everything. I understand that so I don't do things that could harm my family or my life. These athletes are people too I agree, but they are also celebrities which bring big money and the spotlight. If they can't handle it goodriddens. They are blessed with a gift which most of us can't do, if they don't appreciate it so be it.

Most celebrities criminal sentences are ridiculous in the first place due to their popularity.


I can almost understand a guy who didn't have two nickels to rub together, and was homeless, and then resulted to stealing or drug dealing, but for a guy like Vick with a $100m+ contract to be involved in crime at all can't be excused, and then for the crime to be the torture of man's best friend...that is just 100% UNFORGIVABLE!!!

Clipse
07-28-2009, 12:35 PM
Again, did Vick give those dogs who lost fights a 2nd chance? Did he show them any mercy?

Nobody wants to deny Vick a 2nd chance at life and an ordinary job for which he might be qualified (construction?).

We're just saying he doesn't deserve a 2nd chance at the priveledge of playing in the NFL.

Just as if I had done what he did, I would not get a 2nd chance at my career which requires licensing and being held to a higher ethical standard. Nope, I would be out looking for blue collar work right now.

Ya think Bernie Madoff is going to get a 2nd chance to sell stocks?

P.S. What do you like so much about Vick to support him?
Give them a 2nd chance? Nope. Perhaps if he was torturing humans instead of dogs, I might resent him as much as you do...

And why doesn't he deserve a 2nd chance at playing in the NFL? Maybe if he commited a more serious crime, I'd say no more NFL for you. But for fighting dogs, 2 years out of the NFL, serving jailtime, and losing millions and going bankrupt, yes he deserves a 2nd chance.

I don't like Vick at all. But as far as I'm concerned, he's payed for his crimes, and deserves a 2nd chance.

FinFrenzy
07-28-2009, 12:42 PM
I can almost understand a guy who didn't have two nickels to run together and was homeless and then resulted to stealing or drug dealing but for a guy like Vick with a $100m+ contract to be involved in crime, and then for the crime to be the torture of man's best friend...that is just 100% UNFORGIVABLE!!!

Agreed,

But I don't limit it just to Vick. It's all these thugs or thug wannabe's that think and sometimes are above the law (Money=great defense attorney or popularity) which helps their sentence.

It's time as a society we start saying there are taboo's out there. Seriously, did ya think it was okay to do this or that.

It hinders our family role models in society, the players like (just throwing one out there) Jason Taylor has a family, wife, kids...develops charities, people don't realize the world immortalizes (Not saying me personally) certain players, for instance when we played in London. The enormous blimp like figure of him they had in London.

Ofcourse you get the people with the I am 100% in control of my kids role models, yadda yadda garbage. My parents were mine but I also looked up to certain players, Marino, Montana, etc. etc.

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 12:48 PM
Give them a 2nd chance? Nope. Perhaps if he was torturing humans instead of dogs, I might resent him as much as you do...

And why doesn't he deserve a 2nd chance at playing in the NFL? Maybe if he commited a more serious crime, I'd say no more NFL for you. But for fighting dogs, 2 years out of the NFL, serving jailtime, and losing millions and going bankrupt, yes he deserves a 2nd chance.

I don't like Vick at all. But as far as I'm concerned, he's payed for his crimes, and deserves a 2nd chance.

If you don't like him, then why support his 2nd chance in the PRIVATE NFL?

If he was a lawyer, he would have been disbarred for life.

If he was a doctor, he would have lost his medical license for life.

If he was a stock broker, he would have lost his securities license for life (see SEC taking away Bernie Madoff's license for life even before prison sentence was handed down).

Vick maybe deserves a 2nd chance at construction jobs but a 2nd chance to be cheered on by millions of NFL fans....why? What has he done to earn that 2nd chance?

Again, let's recall that he was not only "fighting dogs". Court records show that he admitted to PERSONALLY killing dogs by drowning them, hanging them from trees, electrocuting them, slamming them to the ground, and shooting them. He was also witnessed all over that area being involved in every aspect of the horrors including "adopting" strays (about a dozen emaciated Beagles and mixed breeds were also found on the property in the raid) and he was using those dogs as practice for the Pit Bulls. Mike Vick showed his dogs NO MERCY!!! NO 2ND CHANCES!!!

Are you aware of all this?

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 12:56 PM
Agreed,

But I don't limit it just to Vick. It's all these thugs or thug wannabe's that think and sometimes are above the law (Money=great defense attorney or popularity) which helps their sentence.

It's time as a society we start saying there are taboo's out there. Seriously, did ya think it was okay to do this or that.

It hinders our family role models in society, the players like (just throwing one out there) Jason Taylor has a family, wife, kids...develops charities, people don't realize the world immortalizes (Not saying me personally) certain players, for instance when we played in London. The enormous blimp like figure of him they had in London.

Ofcourse you get the people with the I am 100% in control of my kids role models, yadda yadda garbage. My parents were mine but I also looked up to certain players, Marino, Montana, etc. etc.


Exactly why the NFL has a responsibility to draw a line at the Vicks, Pacmans, Stallworths and Leonard Littles of the word. (OJ should also be removed from the HOF.)

Of course parents should have most, if not all, of this role-model-responsibility but the NFL sure has their hands out when the money from millions of fans rolls in so they also have to take responsibility for fan adoration of these players - even if the players don't want to be held to the standard of role models. If they don't want to be held to higher ethical standards of role models, then fine - stick to your construction job Mike Vick!!!

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 02:27 PM
Exactly why the NFL has a responsibility to draw a line at the Vicks, Pacmans, Stallworths and Leonard Littles of the word. (OJ should also be removed from the HOF.)

Of course parents should have most, if not all, of this role-model-responsibility but the NFL sure has their hands out when the money from millions of fans rolls in so they also have to take responsibility for fan adoration of these players - even if the players don't want to be held to the standard of role models. If they don't want to be held to higher ethical standards of role models, then fine - stick to your construction job Mike Vick!!!

It sounds like a lot of people are using Vick as an example for how screwed up things are.

Vick committed a cirmes, did his jail time and lost everything...people say he shouldn't get a second chance because doctors, lawyers and such wouldn't....the problem with this is these professionals usually are highly intelligent people. If they had chosen another profession they probbaly would have succeeded at that too. But your intelligence level may get you any job you want, it doesn't mean you can run a 4.3 40 or throw a football 65 yards....If Vick were some sub level player that had done this, he probbaly would have gotten a lifetime ban. But he's not, he's a rare physical freak. That is why he gets a second chance....

I don't agree with it, but it's the way it is. The guys who are thebest at what they do ALWAYS get special treatment. The best doctors and lawyers make the money to pay high priced lawyers and get special treatment when they get in trouble.

As much as I disagree with it, thats just the way things are and you can't blast Vick for benefitting from the same things his peers do also.

NYinBostonFin
07-28-2009, 02:34 PM
Exactly why the NFL has a responsibility to draw a line at the Vicks, Pacmans, Stallworths and Leonard Littles of the word. (OJ should also be removed from the HOF.)

Of course parents should have most, if not all, of this role-model-responsibility but the NFL sure has their hands out when the money from millions of fans rolls in so they also have to take responsibility for fan adoration of these players - even if the players don't want to be held to the standard of role models. If they don't want to be held to higher ethical standards of role models, then fine - stick to your construction job Mike Vick!!!

I don't work with construction but what is the deal with your hatred for construction workers? :lol:

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 02:37 PM
It sounds like a lot of people are using Vick as an example for how screwed up things are.

Vick committed a cirmes, did his jail time and lost everything...people say he shouldn't get a second chance because doctors, lawyers and such wouldn't....the problem with this is these professionals usually are highly intelligent people. If they had chosen another profession they probbaly would have succeeded at that too. But your intelligence level may get you any job you want, it doesn't mean you can run a 4.3 40 or throw a football 65 yards....If Vick were some sub level player that had done this, he probbaly would have gotten a lifetime ban. But he's not, he's a rare physical freak. That is why he gets a second chance....

I don't agree with it, but it's the way it is. The guys who are thebest at what they do ALWAYS get special treatment. The best doctors and lawyers make the money to pay high priced lawyers and get special treatment when they get in trouble.

As much as I disagree with it, thats just the way things are and you can't blast Vick for benefitting from the same things his peers do also.


Not so - let's compare Vick to ponzi scheme king swindler Bernard Madoff. He was ultra talented and respected in his field (almost thought of as a Michael Vick of the securities trading world) and when he got busted, his securities license was revoked by the SEC for life!

It didn't end up mattering anyway since he got 150 years in jail but the point is that just b/c you're an exceptional talent in securities, law, or medicine, does not mean you would be treated any differently by the SEC, Bar or Medical Board.

There really is no good reason for a PRIVATE EMPLOYER like the NFL to allow this piece of garbage back in their company other than trying to avoid this issue becoming a race issue with idiots like TO and Ochocinco and others having their race cards in-hand ready to be thrown down.

Again, I think Goddell is caving into the fear of looking like the mean white man trying to keep the black man down. But obviously, this isn't black vs. white. It was man vs. K9 and it's about a man who doesn't deserve a 2nd chance AT THE NFL.

Black people who support Vick are no different than blacks who cheered when OJ was found "innocent". This kind of support is a disgrace.

As I said before; Mike Vick aint no Medgar Evers!

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 02:39 PM
The funny part is the majority of folks that have lost their job the pas yr or so....they were white collar workers...a lot of blue collar folks are still working....mechanics, electricians, plumbers....job like this, reguardless of how bad the economy gets these guys are still in demand.

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 02:40 PM
I don't work with construction but what is the deal with your hatred for construction workers? :lol:


Huh? I'm just referencing the fact that Vick was working construction - no disrespect. I have clients and friends who work construction. Just saying that Vick has that option as his "2nd chance". He also has the UFL and CFL. It's just the instant fame and fortune of the NFL for which he deserves no 2nd chance.

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 02:41 PM
The funny part is the majority of folks that have lost their job the pas yr or so....they were white collar workers...a lot of blue collar folks are still working....mechanics, electricians, plumbers....job like this, reguardless of how bad the economy gets these guys are still in demand.


So plenty of work out there for Vick if the poor baby couldn't play in the NFL again.

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 02:41 PM
Vick was convicted of gambling and racketeering....not stealing billions of dollars from people....

NYinBostonFin
07-28-2009, 02:42 PM
It sounds like a lot of people are using Vick as an example for how screwed up things are.

Vick committed a cirmes, did his jail time and lost everything...people say he shouldn't get a second chance because doctors, lawyers and such wouldn't....the problem with this is these professionals usually are highly intelligent people. If they had chosen another profession they probbaly would have succeeded at that too. But your intelligence level may get you any job you want, it doesn't mean you can run a 4.3 40 or throw a football 65 yards....If Vick were some sub level player that had done this, he probbaly would have gotten a lifetime ban. But he's not, he's a rare physical freak. That is why he gets a second chance....

I don't agree with it, but it's the way it is. The guys who are thebest at what they do ALWAYS get special treatment. The best doctors and lawyers make the money to pay high priced lawyers and get special treatment when they get in trouble.

As much as I disagree with it, thats just the way things are and you can't blast Vick for benefitting from the same things his peers do also.

They are...Vick got his 2nd chance because he actually did more time than others who have done arguably worse crimes. When animals come into the arguement, people get more emotional. Goodell knows it may not be popular, but like other players...he has to give Vick a 2nd chance.

Goodell knows he deserves a 2nd chance, thats why he reinstated him. He left it up to the owners basically saying...."hey, if you want him, you can have him." Taking the whole thing out of his hands. It will be PR suicide to the team that picks him up, but a team most likely will give him a chance. I don't believe in any way it will be the Dolphins though.

dlockz
07-28-2009, 02:42 PM
Not just Vick, any player that is a current member of the NFL that convicts a Felony and is convicted should be barred from the league.


BAsed on what. They are playing a damn game. What is the reasoning that a felon should not be allowed to play in the nfl. This not the police department or a school teacher. He is of no danger to any person playing in the league.

So a felon should be barred from working at all or just jobs that dont make much money. I agree there are many jobs Vick should not be able to have but the NFL is definately not a job where it really matters. I dont get where people think that only the best of the best of scoiety are in the NFL.

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 02:42 PM
So plenty of work out there for Vick if the poor baby couldn't play in the NFL again.


There is, but he will play in the NFL again. The precedent has already been set....felony crimes don't keep you out of the NFL. The commish can't ban Vick for life over gambling and racketeering when there are others playing with worse crimes.

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 02:44 PM
If people are going to grandstand about the system being wrong why not dedicate yourselves to writeing lawmakers about child molesters that get short stints in prison and are released to get any job they can that doesn't involve working with children....

FinFrenzy
07-28-2009, 02:49 PM
If people are going to grandstand about the system being wrong why not dedicate yourselves to writeing lawmakers about child molesters that get short stints in prison and are released to get any job they can that doesn't involve working with children....


:err: So your content with everything in the world? Great Job, making more money than ever before. Your house value is soaring, huh? 401k tripling in value?

I thought we were discussing are beliefs in the situation, I have a belief that's it, pure and simple.


How do you go from our beliefs in Vick, my belief in felons lose their right to play. On to child molestors?

dlockz
07-28-2009, 02:49 PM
So plenty of work out there for Vick if the poor baby couldn't play in the NFL again.


I find it funny that people place the NFL above all these other professions. Yea he can work for minimum wage Im alright with that but if he makes money thats wrong.

I personally think steroid users should be banned permanently because this is something designed to cheat the integrity of the game.

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 02:52 PM
If people are going to grandstand about the system being wrong why not dedicate yourselves to writeing lawmakers about child molesters that get short stints in prison and are released to get any job they can that doesn't involve working with children....


Lawmakers? You might be better off starting with the Pope and the Vatican and other churces and temples (not sure about mosques)! They're routinely obstructing justice to cover up and relocate pedophile priests.

Most non-priestly child molestors who get caught are ending up on sexual predator lists and are pretty much not getting jobs (or housing) anywhere near children (see Miami Beach Julia Tuttle Causeway shacks).

As long as their caught, our laws are pretty strict, but I agree that they should be much stricter. I just don't think you rehablitate a pedophile anymore than you can turn a straigt man gay or a gay man straight. These are simply sexual orientations. But as far as I'm concerned, rapists and child molestors should be executed on the 1st offense.

Anyway, start by keeping your kids away from "men of the cloth" and you should be okay.

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 02:58 PM
:err: So your content with everything in the world? Great Job, making more money than ever before. Your house value is soaring, huh? 401k tripling in value?

I thought we were discussing are beliefs in the situation, I have a belief that's it, pure and simple.


How do you go from our beliefs in Vick, my belief in felons lose their right to play. On to child molestors?

Maybe you don't believe felons should have the right to play, problem with that is obviously the NFL doesn't agree with you. Felons have been playing for years, to ban a guy for getting a felony now would go against the precident thats already set.

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 02:58 PM
I find it funny that people place the NFL above all these other professions. Yea he can work for minimum wage Im alright with that but if he makes money thats wrong.

I personally think steroid users should be banned permanently because this is something designed to cheat the integrity of the game.


It's the fame and fortune of the NFL, and forcing NFL fans like me to not be able to wholly enjoy my favorite pass time.

If he can make big money in the UFL or CFL, it wouldn't bother me as much (although I wish Ron Mexico would just go away and die from his STDs).

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 03:03 PM
It's the fame and fortune of the NFL, and forcing NFL fans like me to not be able to wholly enjoy my favorite pass time.

If he can make big money in the UFL or CFL, it wouldn't bother me as much (although I wish Ron Mexico would just go away and die from his STDs).

Do you think the NFL gives a damn about simple fans? It's about money! Vick will makes more money for the NFL than without him. For the same reason the draft has suddenly become a 3 day event in prime viewing time.....money!

The NFL knows diehard fans will tune in wheather they put the draft in primetime or 2am! Same with Vick.

If they ban him for life, it goes against the precident that is already set. Not to mention the revenue he will bring will outweigh the bad pub. Whether you agree with Vick in the NFL or not is not going to stop 995 of fans from watching. Yet it will get more people to watch just out of curiosity.

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 03:08 PM
Do you think the NFL gives a damn about simple fans? It's about money! Vick will makes more money for the NFL than without him. For the same reason the draft has suddenly become a 3 day event in prime viewing time.....money!

The NFL knows diehard fans will tune in wheather they put the draft in primetime or 2am! Same with Vick.

If they ban him for life, it goes against the precident that is already set. Not to mention the revenue he will bring will outweigh the bad pub. Whether you agree with Vick in the NFL or not is not going to stop 995 of fans from watching. Yet it will get more people to watch just out of curiosity.


I think you're way off here. Even ESPN polls have shown that about 30% of fans don't support his return (a CNN poll was almost split). At least half of those folks are dog lovers like me who would indeed stop going to games and purchasing merchandise if their team signed Vick.

Is Vick worth a team in the NFL risking the loss of 15% of their fans? I think not!

Just b/c this is a controversial story making a lot of headline doesn't mean Vick is now a money maker for the NFL. He is a pariah and a financial RISK.

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 03:12 PM
Do you really think that Vick joining a team is going to stop 50% of people from going to the games???

It's pretty easy to say you will do something, but actually doing it is another story....

I could be wrong, but I am willing to bet when Vick is signed by a team, they're stadium isn't nearly half empty.

NYinBostonFin
07-28-2009, 03:16 PM
I think you're way off here. Even ESPN polls have shown that about 30% of fans don't support his return (a CNN poll was almost split). At least half of those folks are dog lovers like me who would indeed stop going to games and purchasing merchandise if their team signed Vick.

Is Vick worth a team in the NFL risking the loss of 15% of their fans? I think not!

Just b/c this is a controversial story making a lot of headline doesn't mean Vick is now a money maker for the NFL. He is a pariah and a financial RISK.

He's a risk that some teams would take. I'm sure the Raiders will sell a lot more jerseys with Vick than w/o. The # of fans they may lose, will not be seen with all the Vick supporters that are out there.

And the polls aren't asking if they will stop watching football if Vick is reinstated. They just ask if he should be.

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 03:19 PM
He's a risk that some teams would take. I'm sure the Raiders will sell a lot more jerseys with Vick than w/o. The # of fans they may lose, will not be seen with all the Vick supporters that are out there.

And the polls aren't asking if they will stop watching football if Vick is reinstated. They just ask if he should be.


Sadly, you're probably right. And with the Humane Society, ASPCA, even PETA and then respected NFLers like Tony Dungy all helping Vick's cause, he probably will get signed.

It's too bad Vick couldn't show his dogs the kind of mercy which he is asking for himself now.

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 03:21 PM
Do you really think that Vick joining a team is going to stop 50% of people from going to the games???

It's pretty easy to say you will do something, but actually doing it is another story....

I could be wrong, but I am willing to bet when Vick is signed by a team, they're stadium isn't nearly half empty.


I said 15%, not 50%.

And I can't speak for anyone but myself. I have already sent an e-mail at miamidolphins.com letting them know that my four tickets in section 141 will be canceled and unused this season if Vick is signed. I would also stop buying Phins merchandise and supporting the Phins until Vick, and the ownership who signed him, was gone. I can promise you that!

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 03:23 PM
I would have to ask myself....if the ASPCA, Humane Society, PETA, and Dungy are willing to support him...why are you so against it? Obviously these people to believe there is more to be gained for their cause then will be lost.

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 03:24 PM
I said 15%, not 50%.

And I can't speak for anyone but myself. I have already sent an e-mail at miamidolphins.com letting them know that my four tickets in section 141 will be canceled and unused this season if Vick is signed. I would also stop buying Phins merchandise and supporting the Phins until Vick, and the ownership who signed him, was gone. I can promise you that!

I can also promise you that if this team is winning with Vick...someone will buy those tickets...

GoonBoss
07-28-2009, 03:49 PM
I find it funny that people place the NFL above all these other professions. Yea he can work for minimum wage Im alright with that but if he makes money thats wrong.

I personally think steroid users should be banned permanently because this is something designed to cheat the integrity of the game.

Nobdy is placing the NFL above any other profession or company. They DO happen to be a good one though. Lots of money to make with the right skill set...Just like a top law firm, or tech company.

There are plenty of places for Vick to ply his trade. If I worked for the top construction company in an area, and through my negligence I wrecked on of thier tools, or vehicles they'd be perfectly right to fire me and not hire me again, even if they recovered damages.

Doesn't mean I can't work constuction..Just means I probably won't makes as much money doing it. I'm fine with vick making all the money he can..anywhere but the NFL.

FinFrenzy
07-28-2009, 03:52 PM
The funny part is the majority of folks that have lost their job the pas yr or so....they were white collar workers...a lot of blue collar folks are still working....mechanics, electricians, plumbers....job like this, reguardless of how bad the economy gets these guys are still in demand.



Say that to the GM employees, Ford and Chrysler factory workers. The housing construction, plumbing, electrical workers. The stockers, cashiers, delivery drivers with all the main clothing, shoe, ice cream, what a burgers, grocery chains shutting down.

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 03:52 PM
Nobdy is placing the NFL above any other profession or company. They DO happen to be a good one though. Lots of money to make with the right skill set...Just like a top law firm, or tech company.

There are plenty of places for Vick to ply his trade. If I worked for the top construction company in an area, and through my negligence I wrecked on of thier tools, or vehicles they'd be perfectly right to fire me and not hire me again, even if they recovered damages.

Doesn't mean I can't work constuction..Just means I probably won't makes as much money doing it. I'm fine with vick making all the money he can..anywhere but the NFL.

Only trouble with that idea is, the guy in charge of the NFL obviously don't agree with you.

GoonBoss
07-28-2009, 03:55 PM
Only trouble with that idea is, the guy in charge of the NFL obviously don't agree with you.

Which is certainly his right...Just like it would have been to ban him for life. Too bad he didn't do the right thing.

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 03:55 PM
Say that to the GM employees, Ford and Chrysler factory workers. The housing construction, plumbing, electrical workers. The stockers, cashiers, delivery drivers with all the main clothing, shoe, ice cream, what a burgers, grocery chains shutting down.


Or all the CEOs, CFO's and management folks that were laid off from these companies. I don't know a whole lot about the outside world outside of what I see on the news I must admit. I live on a military reservation and we are building housing and buildings like crazy. The recession doesn't much apply to the areas around military reservations.

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 03:56 PM
Which is certainly his right...Just like it would have been to ban him for life. Too bad he didn't do the right thing.

Again, i agree with you. I have no problem with a Vick or felony free NFL....

Trouble is, like with most things, $$$$ is the driving factor.

GoonBoss
07-28-2009, 03:58 PM
Again, i agree with you. I have no problem with a Vick or felony free NFL....

Trouble is, like with most things, $$$$ is the driving factor.

I don't think the money is going to be any factor what so ever. If Vick was perma banned, nobody would even be talking about him 2 years later.

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 04:01 PM
I don't think the money is going to be any factor what so ever. If Vick was perma banned, nobody would even be talking about him 2 years later.

Then why in the world did the NFL let him back? I'm sure your right about 2 yrs from now, but there is money to be made off Vick right now!

Astrosback
07-28-2009, 04:45 PM
Then why in the world did the NFL let him back? I'm sure your right about 2 yrs from now, but there is money to be made off Vick right now!

Out of fear of the race card, not for money. At best, they'll get a wash from Vick supporters vs. Vick haters like me but they're certainly not thinking they'll make more money with Vick than without. The NFL does just fine money-wise without this loser.

No, this is all about the NFL caving for fear of it's 80%+ player staff making this into a race issue.

endorPHINS72
07-28-2009, 04:54 PM
He did his time. Get over it.

:caveman:

People like you are why I hate message boards at times.

endorPHINS72
07-28-2009, 05:00 PM
What exactly is an elite industry? would you not agree there is a logical reason why you would lose your career in your industry. There is no logical reason why he should not be allowed to play football. He committed a crime and did actual prison time unlike most dogfighters including some that never got caught in the NFL. We just had a president that had a dui so Im sure the NFL can live with a person that did his time in prison. There is not one logical reason to exclude Vick from playing in the NFL. Alot of good can happen if this is done the right way and Vick fulfills his commitment to the ASPCA. Dogfighting is not a priortity for law enforcement and most never see one day in jail for doing this horrible sport. He can actually do some good in the long run.


dlockz, I am COMPLETELY for the ban of any murderer, rapist, pedophile, animal abuser, etc. from the NFL. Once they're convicted, I don't care who it is...PERIOD.

Far too many of these young kids today think it's their right to play in the NFL. It's not...it's a privilege. This "gangsta rap/thug" lifestyle can't be tolerated. If you want to be a thug, go live in East L.A. You can't have it both ways.

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 05:22 PM
dlockz, I am COMPLETELY for the ban of any murderer, rapist, pedophile, animal abuser, etc. from the NFL. Once they're convicted, I don't care who it is...PERIOD.

Far too many of these young kids today think it's their right to play in the NFL. It's not...it's a privilege. This "gangsta rap/thug" lifestyle can't be tolerated. If you want to be a thug, go live in East L.A. You can't have it both ways.


You don't need to go to east LA....Junction City, KS!!! I have never seen so many wanna be thugs in the middle of nowhere...

dlockz
07-28-2009, 06:27 PM
dlockz, I am COMPLETELY for the ban of any murderer, rapist, pedophile, animal abuser, etc. from the NFL. Once they're convicted, I don't care who it is...PERIOD.

Far too many of these young kids today think it's their right to play in the NFL. It's not...it's a privilege. This "gangsta rap/thug" lifestyle can't be tolerated. If you want to be a thug, go live in East L.A. You can't have it both ways.


So Stallworth should no be banned since he only did manslaughter. So your contention if you are found guilty of animal abuse you should be out. Doesnt matter if you had dangerous animals like Joey Porter that broke loose and killed a minature horse that was on its own property hes good in your book. So one spousal abuse charge how does that rate. So if you plea down then you can play in the league even if you probably deserved more of a charge.

So if RAndy Starks is found guilty of trying to actually hit the officer , he should be banned for life just checking.

I personally dont see how people act like the NFL is some morally superior organization, it isnt so why pretend it is.

The NFL is a sports league not a catholic nursery.

dlockz
07-28-2009, 06:50 PM
Out of fear of the race card, not for money. At best, they'll get a wash from Vick supporters vs. Vick haters like me but they're certainly not thinking they'll make more money with Vick than without. The NFL does just fine money-wise without this loser.

No, this is all about the NFL caving for fear of it's 80%+ player staff making this into a race issue.


Well the NFL should care what its employees think wouldnt you agree.

This is not a race issue. I have seen just as many white players support vick as black players.

By the way Im not a vick supporter or hater but I find it stupid to ban this guy from the league.

I still dont see anyone picketing the dolphins because they employ a multiple duier or a player who has been charged with domestic violence (he agreed to counseling)

FinFrenzy
07-28-2009, 07:01 PM
Or all the CEOs, CFO's and management folks that were laid off from these companies. I don't know a whole lot about the outside world outside of what I see on the news I must admit. I live on a military reservation and we are building housing and buildings like crazy. The recession doesn't much apply to the areas around military reservations.

The prob with that is, 1 CEO or CFO amounts to how many small white collars and how many blue collar people.

Military locations---Hopefully until the downsize certain politicians want...;)

Thank you for your service...:up::buds:

ArmyFin7
07-28-2009, 07:15 PM
The prob with that is, 1 CEO or CFO amounts to how many small white collars and how many blue collar people.

Military locations---Hopefully until the downsize certain politicians want...;)

Thank you for your service...:up::buds:

You do realize the Army is planning to add 20-30k more soldiers next yr?

FinFrenzy
07-28-2009, 07:17 PM
You do realize the Army is planning to add 20-30k more soldiers next yr?

Under Bush's old plan....that can be stopped at any time.

endorPHINS72
07-28-2009, 11:58 PM
So Stallworth should no be banned since he only did manslaughter. So your contention if you are found guilty of animal abuse you should be out. Doesnt matter if you had dangerous animals like Joey Porter that broke loose and killed a minature horse that was on its own property hes good in your book. So one spousal abuse charge how does that rate. So if you plea down then you can play in the league even if you probably deserved more of a charge.

So if RAndy Starks is found guilty of trying to actually hit the officer , he should be banned for life just checking.

I personally dont see how people act like the NFL is some morally superior organization, it isnt so why pretend it is.

The NFL is a sports league not a catholic nursery.

Again, dlockz, you are, by far, the greatest devil's advocate/debater on Finheaven! :up:

Stallworth would be out, if I wrote the NFL rules, as would Leonard Little. Vehicular manslaughter while under the influence would not be tolerated. Those big ones I mentioned (Murder, rape, pedophilia, DWIs, animal abuse, etc.) would be cause for an automatic ban. "Lesser" crimes like fighting, theft, etc. would be subject to a two strikes and you're out policy.

Of course it's not a religious sect, dlockz, but it is one of the most highly coveted jobs in the country. NFL Players should be held to the same standards that any high profile company employees would be subject to.

dlockz
07-29-2009, 09:16 AM
Again, dlockz, you are, by far, the greatest devil's advocate/debater on Finheaven! :up:

Stallworth would be out, if I wrote the NFL rules, as would Leonard Little. Vehicular manslaughter while under the influence would not be tolerated. Those big ones I mentioned (Murder, rape, pedophilia, DWIs, animal abuse, etc.) would be cause for an automatic ban. "Lesser" crimes like fighting, theft, etc. would be subject to a two strikes and you're out policy.

Of course it's not a religious sect, dlockz, but it is one of the most highly coveted jobs in the country. NFL Players should be held to the same standards that any high profile company employees would be subject to.


Still dont see how animal abuse would rank with being a pedophile, rapist or murderer.

DWI is not an automatic firing from every high profile job, in fact its still pretty tolerated in the work place. You still cant compare the NFL to a regular job and thats the problem. We hold players on this pedestal and treat them like they are role models and thats usually far from the case.

Still waiting on those JD QUINN threads downing Parcells for bringing him in but three dui's is not a big deal on this board.

Mcganiel
07-29-2009, 10:33 AM
Still dont see how animal abuse would rank with being a pedophile, rapist or murderer.

DWI is not an automatic firing from every high profile job, in fact its still pretty tolerated in the work place. You still cant compare the NFL to a regular job and thats the problem. We hold players on this pedestal and treat them like they are role models and thats usually far from the case.

Still waiting on those JD QUINN threads downing Parcells for bringing him in but three dui's is not a big deal on this board.

ITS NOT USUALLY FAR FROM THE CASE..ARE YOU FOR REAL. Up here Jets players do all kinds of events all over Florham park and North Jersey where their practice facilty is and it's MOST OF THE PLAYERS THAT PARTICIPATE. They do a ton for our community and children.The charity work alone is amazing. Your Statement is totally false.

dlockz
07-29-2009, 11:05 AM
ITS NOT USUALLY FAR FROM THE CASE..ARE YOU FOR REAL. Up here Jets players do all kinds of events all over Florham park and North Jersey where their practice facilty is and it's MOST OF THE PLAYERS THAT PARTICIPATE. They do a ton for our community and children.The charity work alone is amazing. Your Statement is totally false.


If you choose to make a football player your role model thats fine but believe me its just like anyone else with money thats what they do.

Im sure Joey Porter does alot of charity do you want him as your child's role model. The NFL is not full of the best of society, its just like regular society there are good guys, neautral guys and scumbags.