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Roman529
11-07-2009, 07:10 PM
I was watching the Notre Dame-Navy game and Golden Tate really impresses me as a wide receiver.....he has great hands and can really run after the catch. He is also really tough and will take plenty of hits and keep on catching it. I think he would be a good 2nd or 3rd round selection. Navy upsets Notre Dame 23-21.....good game.

#1dolphinsfan
11-07-2009, 08:13 PM
yea i wouldnt mind getting him if we dont get a WR in the first round hopefully he will be there in the 3rd round when we pick but i doubt it

finny1333
11-07-2009, 10:10 PM
hes only a sophomore i believe so i doubt hed come out after this year

skipp2myloo13
11-07-2009, 11:43 PM
if clausen goes he goes

tcolli17
11-08-2009, 12:04 AM
how big is he?

#1dolphinsfan
11-08-2009, 01:01 AM
hes only a sophomore i believe so i doubt hed come out after this year
He is a Junior not a Sophomore

#1dolphinsfan
11-08-2009, 01:01 AM
how big is he?
he is 5'11 195

tcolli17
11-08-2009, 01:43 PM
he is 5'11 195
I guess if we took him he would compete with Bess then.

Roman529
11-08-2009, 09:05 PM
I guess if we took him he would compete with Bess then.

He's not that big but he looks a lot stronger then Ginn/Bess....more bulk on him. What I like he is will catch the ball in traffic and he doesn't flinch like Teddy Ginn. I think we still need to go after a LB and DT with our first couple picks, but a WR in Round 3 might not be bad.

MP-Omnis
11-09-2009, 12:02 AM
Is he supposed to be like the next Steve Smith?

#1dolphinsfan
11-09-2009, 01:09 AM
I guess if we took him he would compete with Bess then.
Tate is better then Bess IMO tate can do it all he can go across the middle and go deep bess is pretty much just a first down guy and a short yardage guy

endorPHINS72
11-09-2009, 03:45 AM
Golden Tate will be an AWESOME pro wide receiver. He's come up big in big games and has INCREDIBLY strong hands. I can see where the Steve Smith comparisons come from.

And watch out for Michael Floyd in a few years. He was sick as a freshman last year and just came back this weekend after a separated shoulder and had a great game. He's got great size (6'3, 220 lbs, fast and can make GREAT catches). Reminds me of a young Andre Johnson.

dahlmarino
11-11-2009, 06:10 PM
hes only a sophomore i believe so i doubt hed come out after this year

You're thinking of Micheal Floyd, who lines up across from Tate. Floyd will be a Top 10 pick whenever he comes out. Tate definitely has everything you look for in a #1 as long as you're not obsessed with the whole extraordinary size argument.

I cant believe Im saying so many nice things about Notre Dame players. I feel dirty...

dahlmarino
11-11-2009, 06:15 PM
Oh, and if Tate declares he's a first rounder I think.

dougfinsfan72
11-14-2009, 11:51 AM
Golden Tate will be an AWESOME pro wide receiver. He's come up big in big games and has INCREDIBLY strong hands. I can see where the Steve Smith comparisons come from.

And watch out for Michael Floyd in a few years. He was sick as a freshman last year and just came back this weekend after a separated shoulder and had a great game. He's got great size (6'3, 220 lbs, fast and can make GREAT catches). Reminds me of a young Andre Johnson.

I've only seen Golden Tate a few times but if he comes out I say he's a first round pick by the end of the combine and senior bowl games. I'm not sure about his speed but HANDS -wise the only receiver i've seen with better hands coming out of college was Reggie Wayne and we all know how he's done.

Every team in need of a receiver will be after him except for maybe the Dolphins. They'll be looking for a steal in the 3rd - 7th round like always.

jim1
11-15-2009, 09:15 AM
Real nice punt return for TD vs Ptt. Tate would be a good replacement for Ginn imo if Ginn can be moved. Quick, fast, strong, good hands. 2nd rd prospect. I'm still locked in to a Bryant/Benn/Demaryius Thomas type for us, I can't shake that.

hooshoops
11-15-2009, 09:53 AM
tate is moving his way into round 1...i was impressed last night.

i currently have dez bryant then tate and then benn at wr. thomas doesn't run many nfl routes and with the ga tech offense everything is built around the triple option...the pass is more of a surprise than anything else. thomas should be making plays in that scenario.

personally i'd rather have eric decker than thomas in the 3rd round or so.

j-off-her-doll
11-15-2009, 09:56 AM
Not high on Tate.

jim1
11-15-2009, 10:20 AM
The pass may be a surprise in the GT option/spread offense, but Thomas is pushing 1000 yards receiving on the year with 6 TD's and about a 24 yards per reception.

hooshoops
11-15-2009, 10:25 AM
yeah but thomas can't run an nfl route tree...unlike tate

i think thomas takes longer to develop and is more a project at the next level than any of the other wrs mentioned.

The Ghost
11-15-2009, 11:59 AM
We need a big WR.

jim1
11-15-2009, 12:26 PM
yeah but thomas can't run an nfl route tree...unlike tate

i think thomas takes longer to develop and is more a project at the next level than any of the other wrs mentioned.

I heard the same thing about Percy Harvin- he's doing fine. GT might not ask Thomas to run a full route tree, but I don't think that it will be a big problem. And I think that the whole issue of the "route tree" is overstated in general. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to learn how to run slants, curls, drags and flys. It would probably add a bit to the learning curve- not good for us- but it wouldn't deter me from drafting Thomas. I wish that this route tree argument was in vogue when Ginn was drafted, and after when the Ginn bandwagon was in swing. Hey, I was hopeful for the guy, too. But a lack of balls and brains is a nasty 1-2 punch. Combining a learning disability (is that code for stupid?) with learning WR patterns- yeah, that would make it more difficult. I don't think that Thomas will have those problems.

WISfinfan13
11-15-2009, 12:32 PM
I think Golden Tate has a similar skill set to Percy Harvin, except Golden Tate is a more polished route runner, and may have better hands.

SRM
11-18-2009, 01:24 AM
How fast is he?

Roman529
11-28-2009, 11:44 PM
Anyone watching the Stanford-Notre Dame game? Golden Tate is putting on a show. Gerhart of Stanford also looks good.

hooshoops
11-28-2009, 11:58 PM
golden tate is nice...

3rdandinches
11-29-2009, 12:13 AM
Absolute playmaker!

skipp2myloo13
11-29-2009, 12:31 AM
We need a big WR.

Like Turner and Wilford?

Roman529
11-29-2009, 12:36 AM
Absolute playmaker!

He is really strong...like a slightly bigger Steven Smith. He catches the ball in traffic and takes hits and doesn't drop it. If we don't go after Dez Bryant, and Tate is there in the 2nd I would grab him.

Best hands in college:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iIdPV4eibg

ChadHenne
11-29-2009, 01:24 AM
Golden Tate may have worked his way into the late 1st round at this point with that MAGNIFICANT performance.

I will say, the ND secondary is putrid, absolutely horrible, but the way he showed such great leaping ability on deep passes, I was awe struck. If we can't get Dez Bryant, McClain, and if Cody and Spikes start to fall into the second round like many expect, I would love to trade down to grab Golden Tate in the later portions of the first round.

Again, probably knee jerk right now after seeing the performance, but that is how I feel at the moment. I loved Golden Tate as a 2nd round steal for a while, but he is proving me more and more that he is very close to being my favorite WR in this draft.

SebasMiamiFan
11-29-2009, 02:16 AM
I don't really want a WR in the draft. We should have an all defense draft and get a experienced (great #1) WR from FA.

TedSlimmJr
11-29-2009, 09:52 AM
Absolute playmaker!


Which is my point when I constantly harp on "run after the catch ability"...."creating seperation"...."running crisp routes"...etc...over "big" and "tall".....when we talk about receivers in here...

Tate came to ND as a runningback...and you can see those runningback instincts when he has the ball in his hands....

I don't care if he's 5'11".....he's extremely solidly built....and he believes he's supposed to come down with the football when it's in the air....it's his...it belongs to him....(see the jump ball in the endzone clip Jim posted in the talking receivers thread).....he attacks the football....which is what I like in a receiver...

I'll take guys like him everytime over the 6'5" guy that likes to wait on the football and can't get seperation....

3rdandinches
11-29-2009, 11:00 AM
Which is my point when I constantly harp on "run after the catch ability"...."creating seperation"...."running crisp routes"...etc...over "big" and "tall".....when we talk about receivers in here...

Tate came to ND as a runningback...and you can see those runningback instincts when he has the ball in his hands....

I don't care if he's 5'11".....he's extremely solidly built....and he believes he's supposed to come down with the football when it's in the air....it's his...it's belongs to him....(see the jump ball in the endzone clip Jim posted in the talking receivers thread).....he attacks the football....which is what I like in a receiver...

I'll take guys like him everytime over the 6'5" guy that likes to wait on the football and can't get seperation....


I couldn`t agree any more, I hope we pick up a early 2nd or trade back and get this kid in our lineup. He flat out makes plays, he`s everything people here want but for some reason their stuck on having to be 6`2 or taller. I don`t get that, I want as many playmakers on our team as possible. G.Tate is a playmaker!

Cannonboy
11-29-2009, 08:24 PM
If Tate is there when the fins pick, they would be fools not to take him. Great speed, hands, and he can run the wildcat.

Roman529
11-29-2009, 09:31 PM
I don't really want a WR in the draft. We should have an all defense draft and get a experienced (great #1) WR from FA.

You rarely ever get a #1 WR in free agency......instead you get old guys like Terrell Owens. If guys become #1 WR's their teams don't allow them to become free agents. We have just as much need on offense as we do on defense.

Jehuty13
11-29-2009, 09:45 PM
What is Tate projected as? will we even have a shot at him? I do like what I saw on youtube, sadly I don't watch a lot of college.

JRoX85
11-30-2009, 08:37 PM
Tate is starting to make a huge stride at round one, the guy catches everything and runs like a stallion. He plays to play the game he loves. Great ability and loves contact. We need this guy. I would take Tate over Bryant

jim1
12-01-2009, 11:38 AM
He's been playing great. I saw him on TV this morning, he seems like a well spoken, intelligent guy. It's always good to see that.

ArmyFin7
12-04-2009, 12:01 PM
I don't really want a WR in the draft. We should have an all defense draft and get a experienced (great #1) WR from FA.

And what team are you expecting to let their #1 WR walk???

ckparrothead
12-04-2009, 12:48 PM
As has been stated, and as is obvious to all, Golden Tate is a very good receiver. His aggressiveness will get him far at the next level and he spots the ball in the air very well. He's also fast and his size isn't terrible. Natural instincts for shielding the ball in the air. Only thing I question is consistency of hands.

Rejus Benn is a little underrated right now. He has dealt with a bad ankle injury this year and a QB whose ball placement is pretty bad. But he also has very good eyes for the ball in flight, is a hands catcher that reaches out and pulls it in strong, and what I like about him is that he has athleticism, acceleration, all that jazz but he runs with a weight to him.

Of the two, I wouldn't be surprised if Rejus Benn made the bigger rookie impact, but Golden Tate became the better player down the road. I think Benn could reward you more for scheming the ball to him, because of his physical prowess.

Brandon LaFell, woof. He has no eyes for the ball in flight. He doesn't adjust to it. He can be a lazy route runner. He has the size and acceleration, all of that, but you need more than that at the next level.

I haven't been that impressed with what I've seen of Danario Alexander yet.

I do however appreciate Damian Williams' game...and would like to see how things shake out for him. He's a humble, hard working kid. I could see Miami drafting him, although they might not have a high opinion of the USC receivers coaching considering how raw and unpolished Patrick Turner turned out to be.

CJGoCanes
12-04-2009, 01:36 PM
Is there a reason you're calling him Arrelious Benn Rejus? Is that his real name or an inside joke or something?

Kdawg954
12-04-2009, 01:45 PM
First round has to be NT or LB.

If round 2 comes and a guy like Tate, Benn or Gresham is there . . . then we take a look.

ckparrothead
12-04-2009, 01:45 PM
That's the name that a lot of people refer to him as, people around him. Even the broadcasters will refer to him as Rejus Benn if they've been around the Illinois program a lot.

MP-Omnis
12-04-2009, 02:06 PM
Is there a reason you're calling him Arrelious Benn Rejus? Is that his real name or an inside joke or something?

Rejus is his nickname. Kind of like Beanie Wells or Carbonite Ginn.

CJGoCanes
12-04-2009, 02:32 PM
Thanks good to know

houtz
12-04-2009, 04:34 PM
What are your thoughts on Briscoe, CK? CFT just reported he will enter the draft.

ArmyFin7
12-04-2009, 04:36 PM
I think Briscoe's 40 time will be the biggest factor....the guy obviously has some hands and good size...

ckparrothead
12-04-2009, 05:34 PM
Speed is exactly the issue. He looks fast on tape, and he's a heck of a RAC player, but you have to look for chances to calibrate his speed.

One good chance was in 2008 when he caught a long one against Oklahoma and outran Lendy Holmes into the end zone. They looked to be running very even with one another at top speed.

We know from the Combine that Lendy is a guy that tops out at about an average of 21.1 mph over the final 20 yards of his 40 yard dash. If that turns out to be a good proxy for Dezmon Briscoe's speed, he could be in trouble when he gets to the pros. He's a physical player in RAC, but he's not a huge player. You won't be breaking those same tackles against the New York Jets that you were against Louisianna Tech, especially if you're not a particularly big player for the position. And you're going to run into guys at the next level that are a lot faster than Lendy Holmes.

Just to give you an idea what I'm talking about with the top speed thing...Jeremy Maclin averaged 22.4 mph over his final 20 yards, Darius Heyward-Bey averaged 23.4 mph, and Lendy Holmes' top speed was slower than Hakeem Nicks', who was a particularly big and powerful player as a WR. Briscoe doesn't have Nicks' build or power, he would need to be a faster player to make it at the next level IMO.

As for his hands...I'm not one hundred percent sure he has great hands.

hooshoops
12-04-2009, 11:15 PM
i'm studying the wrs like crazy right now and for what i'm seeing on tape dez bryant is the far and away best looking one...followed be arrelius benn who has tons of upside and shows a real burst when he turns downhill and they're both loads to tackle...like multiple defenders have to get them down kind of guys

golden tate the more i watch him while he's impressive and i think he'll make a very good pro he lacks burst or quick acceleration with the ball in his hands and top end speed...he looks like a rb playing wr but i like his short area quickness, his change of direction, his cuts and the way he attacks the ball...but he lacks that different level acceleration that arrellius benn shows

mardy gilyards a nice player but i don't think he's what we need not a real #1 wr but he has acceleration and burst out the nose but can he get off press???

brandon lafell...meh pass i'm not seeing anything to get excited about

eric decker isn't showing much either in ability to get separation or quickness...the dbs in his hip pocket all the way down the field...i think he's a possession guy who can help in the red zone in the nfl...i think he could struggle to get open in the pros

demarious thomas has #1 wr potential and i think with his upside would be a steal in the 3rd round right now...

denario alexander 2 torn acls i don't see separation in and out of his cuts or down the field... medical red flag and doesn't impress me...pass

same for briscoe...i don't think he helps us either

haven't watched much of damian williams yet...

ckparrothead
12-05-2009, 12:57 AM
Pretty much my thoughts exactly, on every single player. Though I see more to Golden Tate's short game and acceleration than you do.

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 01:09 AM
Pretty much my thoughts exactly, on every single player. Though I see more to Golden Tate's short game and acceleration than you do.


i'm interested to hear your take on tate...

ckparrothead
12-05-2009, 01:29 AM
For Tate I think he has a lot of short area burst, and genuine down the field speed. I think he has something you absolutely can't coach and that is FIGHT. The ball is his when it gets in the air and he fights for it. He has natural instincts for using his body to shield defenders from the ball, and he pulls in some of the most unlikely throws you'll ever see. He fights his way off the line with his hands and he runs every route with precision. He blocks really well. Every time I watch him I think I'm watching Steve Smith. Boomer sees Hines Ward.

If he had a weakness IMO it would be consistency of hands catching. He doesn't pull down some passes that you would really think he should.

I like Rejus Benn. I think that there's a good chance that Benn could make a bigger impact right away because he'll reward you a little bit better for scheming him open. Any good offensive coordinator can scheme a guy open. It's about what he does after the catch and I agree with you that Benn has more physical gifts after the catch and the reason I say that is because he runs with more weight while Tate is a guy that runs with more balance. Nicks ran with weight AND balance. He was special, though.

Overall I'm very confident in both players. I think Dez Bryant is just the complete hands down guy in this draft but after that it's Tate and Benn.

ckparrothead
12-05-2009, 01:32 AM
But keep in mind Benn might not even come out. Illinois offered his brother a scholarship in what is an obvious power play to try and entice him to stay for his senior year. He's coming off a real down year too, he might not want to go out like that. The NFL advisory committee is really under the gun too because all year long until very recently, the NCAA was not furnishing any game tapes to NFL teams because they were trying to get paid more for the tapes. They resolved that recently but what it means is the advisory committee members have not been able to do much work on the JUNIORS that could come out and when they put in for a draft grade to try and decide whether to come out or not, they might not even be able to get one, or a very accurate one.

So...perhaps Benn could stay. Tate might not even come out you just don't know.

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 01:36 AM
For Tate I think he has a lot of short area burst, and genuine down the field speed. I think he has something you absolutely can't coach and that is FIGHT. The ball is his when it gets in the air and he fights for it. He has natural instincts for using his body to shield defenders from the ball, and he pulls in some of the most unlikely throws you'll ever see. He fights his way off the line with his hands and he runs every route with precision. He blocks really well. Every time I watch him I think I'm watching Steve Smith. Boomer sees Hines Ward.

If he had a weakness IMO it would be consistency of hands catching. He doesn't pull down some passes that you would really think he should.

I like Rejus Benn. I think that there's a good chance that Benn could make a bigger impact right away because he'll reward you a little bit better for scheming him open. Any good offensive coordinator can scheme a guy open. It's about what he does after the catch and I agree with you that Benn has more physical gifts after the catch and the reason I say that is because he runs with more weight while Tate is a guy that runs with more balance. Nicks ran with weight AND balance. He was special, though.

Overall I'm very confident in both players. I think Dez Bryant is just the complete hands down guy in this draft but after that it's Tate and Benn.

i have it bryant benn and then tate also and then i have demarious thomas for guys who i think could be the kind of wrs we're looking for...but i view thomas as more a project and i want to see him at the combine and what not...

i see a lot of steve smith in golden tate i just think smith has more burst...you know it's funny you say that tate doesn't always catch balls that he should because i had a conversation after the panthers game with jeff ireland (no joke) and asked him about specific players and when i said golden tate he said verbatim "he doesn't always catch the ball"

ckparrothead
12-05-2009, 01:39 AM
Yeah that's definitely the standout negative to me where it concerns Golden Tate. How did you manage a conversation with Ireland after the Panthers game?

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 01:41 AM
Yeah that's definitely the standout negative to me where it concerns Golden Tate. How did you manage a conversation with Ireland after the Panthers game?

we went to the bar champions which is adjacent to the downtown marriott where the team was staying and after the game ireland and ross came in and sat down for a couple cold ones...

i also asked about his preference mcclain or spikes and he said spikes said he was a "physical" player

i'm more a mcclain guy myself

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 01:46 AM
i got a pic with him too...

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2009/12/1312a-1.jpg

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 01:50 AM
hey ck, what's your read on vontae davis??? for my money i think he's gonna be a heck of a player in time and a perfect fit for the 3-4... i see antoine winfield level player...i think he may even be better

sure tackler has burst to the ball when its in front of him physical impact player...i love him

ckparrothead
12-05-2009, 01:53 AM
Echoes my thoughts on Spikes versus McClain too although I certainly won't knock McClain's physicality. I just think that Spikes is the more versatile player.

A guy you should really keep in mind at the WR position is Taylor Price of the Ohio Bobcats. I'm not saying he should go in the first round, or even the second round, or for that matter I'm not sure about the third round. I don't know WHAT round right now. What I do know is that he's like a Diet Golden Tate.

The guy is listed at between 6'0" and 6'1", around 212 lbs, and runs a 4.36 in the 40. We'll see how that all pans out, those guys have a way of showing up 5'11" and 192 lbs with a 4.48 in the 40. But, what I will say is that when I pop in the Tennessee game, I see a guy that is physical and fights like a Golden Tate. He is not in any way intimidated by the big bad SEC team and he takes every opportunity to be the guy that does the intimidating. And as far as speed calibration, I'm inclined to believe in his speed. He was covered all day by Brent Vinson. Vinson may not be a guy on any NFL team's radar but that is mostly because he's been in and out of trouble with the law, and has been injured much of his college career. But, what Vinson has, is genuine 4.4 type speed. Yet he couldn't keep up with Price. Other players were cheating from the press position by turning their hips and running backward just before the snap, respecting Price's speed.

I did a cut-up of Price. You can find it here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIOwxj0oh6Q

That's my own video on him. He just played tonight and he displayed some of the same positives and negatives. One negative is that he has difficulty spotting the ball and getting his hands up when the quarterback's timing is off and Price isn't expecting the pass quite yet. He had an issue with that on that drag route against Tennessee and he had the same issue tonight in the MAC Championship game where they ran what looked like it was going to be a gimmick lateral to Price who was going to throw the ball down the field, but the QB rushed the throw, Price wasn't quite ready for it, couldn't haul it in and it ended up being a costly fumble.

On the other hand one of the key positives you note about Price is that when he gets challenged like that, he FIGHTS on the next play or the next serious...that's the kind of player he is. Sure enough, after he fumbles that ball and Central Michigan takes it down the field for a score, Ohio gets back on offense and a few plays in they run another end-around gimmick play where Taylor Price is asked to throw deep down the field, and he takes his end-around and throws a bullet deep down the field to an open McCrae in stride for a touchdown. That's how you fight back from a mistake.

Can't wait to see the guy in All Star work. I'll be at the Shrine practices myself in Orlando. Don't know if that's where Price will end up but I think he should be on the Shrine roster.

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 01:54 AM
But keep in mind Benn might not even come out. Illinois offered his brother a scholarship in what is an obvious power play to try and entice him to stay for his senior year. He's coming off a real down year too, he might not want to go out like that. The NFL advisory committee is really under the gun too because all year long until very recently, the NCAA was not furnishing any game tapes to NFL teams because they were trying to get paid more for the tapes. They resolved that recently but what it means is the advisory committee members have not been able to do much work on the JUNIORS that could come out and when they put in for a draft grade to try and decide whether to come out or not, they might not even be able to get one, or a very accurate one.

So...perhaps Benn could stay. Tate might not even come out you just don't know.

i think it's possible they stay but i think these kids want to avoid a rookie cap in the new cba down the line...and i'm of the opinion the new cba will have a rookie cap.

by coming out now they can avoid it...that's my take anyways

FinsFanatic777
12-05-2009, 01:57 AM
we went to the bar champions which is adjacent to the downtown marriott where the team was staying and after the game ireland and ross came in and sat down for a couple cold ones...

i also asked about his preference mcclain or spikes and he said spikes said he was a "physical" player

i'm more a mcclain guy myself

If Ireland really wants Spikes over McClain then we should pick Bryant in the first round and wait for Spikes to fall. His draft stock is really falling since many teams aren't in serious need of an ILB. We could even trade up. Personally, I would like to first go for McClain. Then if Bryant falls, trade our second, a third, and next year's second for a late first this year and a fourth next year. Then we selected Bryant and we're all happy.

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 01:59 AM
Echoes my thoughts on Spikes versus McClain too although I certainly won't knock McClain's physicality. I just think that Spikes is the more versatile player.

A guy you should really keep in mind at the WR position is Taylor Price of the Ohio Bobcats. I'm not saying he should go in the first round, or even the second round, or for that matter I'm not sure about the third round. I don't know WHAT round right now. What I do know is that he's like a Diet Golden Tate.

The guy is listed at between 6'0" and 6'1", around 212 lbs, and runs a 4.36 in the 40. We'll see how that all pans out, those guys have a way of showing up 5'11" and 192 lbs with a 4.48 in the 40. But, what I will say is that when I pop in the Tennessee game, I see a guy that is physical and fights like a Golden Tate. He is not in any way intimidated by the big bad SEC team and he takes every opportunity to be the guy that does the intimidating. And as far as speed calibration, I'm inclined to believe in his speed. He was covered all day by Brent Vinson. Vinson may not be a guy on any NFL team's radar but that is mostly because he's been in and out of trouble with the law, and has been injured much of his college career. But, what Vinson has, is genuine 4.4 type speed. Yet he couldn't keep up with Price. Other players were cheating from the press position by turning their hips and running backward just before the snap, respecting Price's speed.

I did a cut-up of Price. You can find it here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIOwxj0oh6Q

That's my own video on him. He just played tonight and he displayed some of the same positives and negatives. One negative is that he has difficulty spotting the ball and getting his hands up when the quarterback's timing is off and Price isn't expecting the pass quite yet. He had an issue with that on that drag route against Tennessee and he had the same issue tonight in the MAC Championship game where they ran what looked like it was going to be a gimmick lateral to Price who was going to throw the ball down the field, but the QB rushed the throw, Price wasn't quite ready for it, couldn't haul it in and it ended up being a costly fumble.

On the other hand one of the key positives you note about Price is that when he gets challenged like that, he FIGHTS on the next play or the next serious...that's the kind of player he is. Sure enough, after he fumbles that ball and Central Michigan takes it down the field for a score, Ohio gets back on offense and a few plays in they run another end-around gimmick play where Taylor Price is asked to throw deep down the field, and he takes his end-around and throws a bullet deep down the field to an open McCrae in stride for a touchdown. That's how you fight back from a mistake.

Can't wait to see the guy in All Star work. I'll be at the Shrine practices myself in Orlando. Don't know if that's where Price will end up but I think he should be on the Shrine roster.

i've got a guy on our draft team on another site who was talkin about taking a look at him tonight...i'll have to check that out

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 02:02 AM
If Ireland really wants Spikes over McClain then we should pick Bryant in the first round and wait for Spikes to fall. His draft stock is really falling since many teams aren't in serious need of an ILB. We could even trade up. Personally, I would like to first go for McClain. Then if Bryant falls, trade our second, a third, and next year's second for a late first this year and a fourth next year. Then we selected Bryant and we're all happy.

that may be the case but as someone else i trust pointed out to me most of the tape these front office guys are looking at are on the senior class and that they haven't really zoned in on the juniors yet...getting their senior stuff in order cause they know they're coming out

i don't know...i do know that ireland primarily talked about the senior class when he talked players to me...

ckparrothead
12-05-2009, 02:02 AM
hey ck, what's your read on vontae davis??? for my money i think he's gonna be a heck of a player in time and a perfect fit for the 3-4... i see antoine winfield level player...i think he may even be better

sure tackler has burst to the ball when its in front of him physical impact player...i love him

I love his physicality and athleticism, especially his closing speed and burst, but let's be honest for a moment he's the weakest link on the defense in absolute terms. I wasn't high on him coming out because I thought he would never get rid of those brain farts of his...and he's had those problems as a rookie.

But that's being unfair. He's a rookie and he will have those issues just like any rookie. He's already far exceeded my expectations. I just don't like this effort to sugar coat things with respect to he and Sean Smith as far it goes with the defensive blame game and trying to figure out who needs to get chopped and who we need to acquire, what the biggest weakness is etc. The biggest weakness is you're trying to do something that teams very RARELY have done in modern NFL history and that is start two rookies at the CB spots. And you know what the safeties don't help them as much as they could so these guys are absolutely the weakest links right now. That's ok, because they're rookies. But I think there's definitely a lot of trying to take a blind eye to that as an issue because people naturally want to try and think of ways to FIX something, and if you acknowledge that the rookie corners are the biggest problem on the defense, then there's nothing to FIX...you just have to wait and hope. Message boarders don't like that too much. :)

I think they're going to be fantastic, personally. If Vontae ever puts to bed those inconsistency issues, and he's already way more consistent than I thought he'd be at this stage, he'll be a monster. He will be as good as his mind lets him be. The closing speed, that's what makes him such a physical hitter. That's what gets him interceptions, too. He can be an absolute star in this league. Once Smith gets comfortable he'll shut down the sidelines and the deep ball but he'll always be susceptible on his inside shoulder I think.

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 02:08 AM
I love his physicality and athleticism, especially his closing speed and burst, but let's be honest for a moment he's the weakest link on the defense in absolute terms. I wasn't high on him coming out because I thought he would never get rid of those brain farts of his...and he's had those problems as a rookie.

But that's being unfair. He's a rookie and he will have those issues just like any rookie. He's already far exceeded my expectations. I just don't like this effort to sugar coat things with respect to he and Sean Smith as far it goes with the defensive blame game and trying to figure out who needs to get chopped and who we need to acquire, what the biggest weakness is etc. The biggest weakness is you're trying to do something that teams very RARELY have done in modern NFL history and that is start two rookies at the CB spots. And you know what the safeties don't help them as much as they could so these guys are absolutely the weakest links right now. That's ok, because they're rookies. But I think there's definitely a lot of trying to take a blind eye to that as an issue because people naturally want to try and think of ways to FIX something, and if you acknowledge that the rookie corners are the biggest problem on the defense, then there's nothing to FIX...you just have to wait and hope. Message boarders don't like that too much. :)

I think they're going to be fantastic, personally. If Vontae ever puts to bed those inconsistency issues, and he's already way more consistent than I thought he'd be at this stage, he'll be a monster. He will be as good as his mind lets him be. The closing speed, that's what makes him such a physical hitter. That's what gets him interceptions, too. He can be an absolute star in this league. Once Smith gets comfortable he'll shut down the sidelines and the deep ball but he'll always be susceptible on his inside shoulder I think.

yeah sean smith gives up the inside release all the time i don't get why guys don't run quick inside routes on him...teams do him a favor when they run routes where he can use his size and the sideline to his advantage plus he for my money takes extra steps and gets off balance when guys cut in front of him or across his face but he's such a poor tackler in the 3-4...run support is none existent

vontae seems to get a little lazy sometimes but i see big things...like you said if he keeps his mind right

ckparrothead
12-05-2009, 02:10 AM
i've got a guy on our draft team on another site who was talkin about taking a look at him tonight...i'll have to check that out

Tonight was NOT a good game to scout Price. One issue with scouting him is that Theo Scott is just not a very field-aware QB. He also has some accuracy issues. Then even aside from that, Ohio is very banged up. One of the key positives I noted in the Tennessee game was Taylor's blocking for the ground game and screens. That couldn't be a big part of this game because their running back is banged up, and the other receiver the guy they like to run screens LeVon Brazill, was seriously banged up and mostly a decoy for the few plays he ran. So you have Price and McCrae as your WRs tonight and the Chippewas ran extra coverage at Price the whole game. This left McCrae open for a big game but the Bobcats seemed content with that and didn't make any special efforts to get Price the ball aside from stuff like hand-offs and those two play calls where he was set to throw passes (one on which he threw a TD).

The thing I take away having seen two games of his now is that they make use of him as probably their best player. When he's not getting the ball they're using his feistiness as basically a lead blocker on screen calls. Or they're using the threat of him taking an end-around to get their runners open. Or they're taking advantage of the defense's keying on him by having him throw a TD pass. That tells me he's one of those guys that can do everything you ask, and you combine that with physicality, good hands, good body, feistiness and genuine 4.4 speed (maybe even 4.3)...now you're cooking with gas.

ckparrothead
12-05-2009, 02:14 AM
I don't know if it's so much the immediate inside release as I've seen Sean really defend that well at times. He's a smart player and he can read things, know when that's what they're going for.

What I think he gives up is the middle cross or double moves to the inside like that sting route that got Roddy White so open against him in the first game. That will be a challenge for him.

Austin Tatious
12-05-2009, 08:37 PM
i had a conversation after the panthers game with jeff ireland (no joke) and asked him about specific players and when i said golden tate he said verbatim "he doesn't always catch the ball"

Great story. That's exactly the kind of conversation I would have if I ran into Ireland. I like Ireland's work alot. Not perfect, but he has been exactly what this organization has needed. Sounds like a nice guy too.

RobertHorry
12-05-2009, 11:18 PM
Golden is everything you want in a Wideout subtract the route running.

Tate runs some terrible routes and cannot run a dagger route worth anything. He fails to sink his hips at the 12-14 yard mark, instead doing what most college players do, shuffling his feet and cutting inside. I have seen him do this numerous times. On his dagger/dig routes he will NOT sink his hips and plant and explode out of his break at a 90 degree angle going full speed across the middle. I think this will be a problem once he reaches the NFL and has to run arrows and whips and what not. Even on his post routes he will go 12 yards and just go towards the goal post. He will not plant and sink his hips and explode out of his break. When he reaches the NFL and has to run more complex routes this will be an issue.

Thats basically the problem I have with Tate.

I love Damian Williams and Marty Gilyard though.

Roman529
12-06-2009, 12:38 AM
Golden is everything you want in a Wideout subtract the route running.

Tate runs some terrible routes and cannot run a dagger route worth anything. He fails to sink his hips at the 12-14 yard mark, instead doing what most college players do, shuffling his feet and cutting inside. I have seen him do this numerous times. On his dagger/dig routes he will NOT sink his hips and plant and explode out of his break at a 90 degree angle going full speed across the middle. I think this will be a problem once he reaches the NFL and has to run arrows and whips and what not. Even on his post routes he will go 12 yards and just go towards the goal post. He will not plant and sink his hips and explode out of his break. When he reaches the NFL and has to run more complex routes this will be an issue.

Thats basically the problem I have with Tate.

I love Damian Williams and Marty Gilyard though.

Who cares what he does what his hips?....he is not a ballerina....this is football, and he is a playah!!!!!!!!!! :woot:

kizzaboo
12-06-2009, 01:13 AM
Who cares what he does what his hips?....he is not a ballerina....this is football, and he is a playah!!!!!!!!!! :woot:

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

RobertHorry
12-06-2009, 08:29 AM
Who cares what he does what his hips?....he is not a ballerina....this is football, and he is a playah!!!!!!!!!! :woot:

Hips are the one of the most vital and important things in a wideout.

finfan54
12-06-2009, 10:47 PM
mardy gilyard. he is a football player. thats all i want. football players. players who make plays.

I dont care about speed overall if you can run routes, catch the ball, and YAC it.

gilyard is a playa. Not gonna lock in on him, but I like and trust my eyes.

phinfan3411
12-07-2009, 04:12 PM
I do not have half the draft knowledge many of you have (wow, some of you guys are good), but I always get upset about all these people obsessed with how tall someone is etc.

Tate isn't tall enough to be a #1 receiver at 5'11"??? That's what I thought I heard.

Probably the same guys that said Drew Brees was too short to be a big time QB??

How tall was Chris Chambers???

How tall is Steve Smith, was he any taller the 5 or 6 years he was one of the best players in the league?

Imo physical build is important in many positions, but imo being able to say your #1 receiver is 6' or taller is tiny in comparison to whether he can play or not. I think Tate can play, him being one inch taller means NOTHING to me.

Did Sean Smith being 6'3" help him in that unbelieveable play yesterday?? I checked, Aiken is listed one inch shorter, guess he should not have made that play huh?

finfan54
12-08-2009, 10:11 PM
we need to get guys who play football. So far, I am liking Tate and Gilyard.

Lafell I need to see the intangibles and if he bows out of combine I chalk it up to *****.

We dont need big WR's. We need big playmakers. They come in all sizes. SEE WES WELKER.