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MiamiDolfan85
11-25-2009, 07:21 PM
a LOT faster than I thought....runs a 4.4 for a WR thats 6'2",220...very well built,just like Ireland likes em....

check it out,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOEqkXIzZFM

also seems hes not afraid to go over the middle....this is EXACTLY the type of WR we need desperately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99YXtr4teGs

I really like him,and Demaryious Thomas,WR out of Georgia Tech(6'3",229)

BARF
11-25-2009, 07:37 PM
nice but what round is he projected

JCane
11-25-2009, 07:42 PM
I've never been a fan of these 40 times. I grew up watching the GREAT Michael Irvin at the University of Miami in the 1980's. And I remember him dismissing 40 speeds as an illusion of greatness. He was abasolutely right. Irvin said it's all about who wants it more and what their 40 time is in teh fourth quarter with the game on the line after they've been running up and down the field all day with pads on. But when it comes down to it, who has a better 40 time with the game on the line in the fourth quarter. And NO ONE was better in the fourth quarter than Michael Irvin.

hooshoops
11-25-2009, 07:48 PM
no one pushed off more than michael irvin either...

JCane
11-25-2009, 07:51 PM
no one pushed off more than michael irvin either...

And? Irvin was a physical receiver. This is the NFL. Pushing off was more legal then than it is now.

hooshoops
11-25-2009, 08:00 PM
And? Irvin was a physical receiver. This is the NFL. Pushing off was more legal then than it is now.

point is back then a guy who lacked speed like irvin could get away with pushing off...unless your randy moss in todays game but he doesn't lack speed...

but make no mistake about it michael irvin created separation by pushing off...constantly

he was adept at pushing off...good for him

JCane
11-25-2009, 08:04 PM
Too much emphasis is place on the 40 time. Get me some football players. Irvin was a football player. I want guys like that on this team. Guys who are emotional. Guys who care. Not guys who run blazing fast 40 times and can't play a lick of football.

Helllllllo Ted Ginn!

JCane
11-25-2009, 08:05 PM
Andre Johnson had a bad 40 time as well.

hooshoops
11-25-2009, 08:11 PM
Too much emphasis is place on the 40 time. Get me some football players. Irvin was a football player. I want guys like that on this team. Guys who are emotional. Guys who care. Not guys who run blazing fast 40 times and can't play a lick of football.

Helllllllo Ted Ginn!

i won't argue that with you...i want football players not track stars.

andre johnson had to have run a 4.4's 40...

i want guys though who can create separation in and out of their cuts and that teams must respect as vertical threats...

JCane
11-25-2009, 08:15 PM
Johnson ran a 4.4 but it was on the lower end. If you can play, the difference between a 4.4 and a 4.5 is completely irrelevant I think.

hooshoops
11-25-2009, 08:21 PM
Johnson ran a 4.4 but it was on the lower end. If you can play, the difference between a 4.4 and a 4.5 is completely irrelevant I think.

i agree with that as well...

i was very high on hakeem nicks last year and michael crabtree despite neither having sprinter speed but they both could create separation had plus hands and weren't slow stiffs by any means...

in fact i told many people as long as hakeem nicks ran a 4.7 flat or better i didn't care what the # said he was a first round talent.

as far as crabtree him not running deterred me not one bit...they were both such good players on film and displayed such good nfl skill sets i was sold.

jim1
11-25-2009, 08:42 PM
Andre Johnson had a bad 40 time as well.

Dude... Andre Johnson is fast as hell. Ran 4.40 at his size. At any size that's moving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZsL_Jjx_E8

SF Dolphin Fan
11-26-2009, 02:28 AM
I think he has a chance to be a first rounder. His speed and size really shows up in that footage. He also breaks a few tackles. Hands seem to be the major question with him and he does look like a bit of a body catcher. Intriguing prospect for sure.

JCane
11-26-2009, 11:15 AM
Dude... Andre Johnson is fast as hell. Ran 4.40 at his size. At any size that's moving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZsL_Jjx_E8

I know he's fast but Andre Johnson isn't that fast on gameday. I couldn't care less either way. Like I said, I want football players. That 4.4 and 4.5 stuff can kick rocks. Micchael Irvin was fast but apparently 4.5 is slow. It's a fraction of a second.

jim1
11-26-2009, 11:56 AM
I know he's fast but Andre Johnson isn't that fast on gameday. I couldn't care less either way. Like I said, I want football players. That 4.4 and 4.5 stuff can kick rocks. Micchael Irvin was fast but apparently 4.5 is slow. It's a fraction of a second.

Fast isn't everything at WR, but to say that fast doesn't count is ludicrous. Andre Johnson most likely wouldn't be gunning for his sencond concsecutive WR receiving yards crown if he weren't as fast as he is. He isn't fast on gameday? You have got to be kidding. The fractions of a second count big time, but they aren't the end all be all, I agree with you on that one.

Clipse
11-26-2009, 12:22 PM
I've never been a fan of these 40 times. I grew up watching the GREAT Michael Irvin at the University of Miami in the 1980's. And I remember him dismissing 40 speeds as an illusion of greatness. He was abasolutely right. Irvin said it's all about who wants it more and what their 40 time is in teh fourth quarter with the game on the line after they've been running up and down the field all day with pads on. But when it comes down to it, who has a better 40 time with the game on the line in the fourth quarter. And NO ONE was better in the fourth quarter than Michael Irvin.
i agree. It's amazing how much stock people put into 40 times. Ask Al Davis how those ridiculously fast 40 times are working out. Much like people overrating height. Steve Smith doesn't have to be 6'-4" to elite. Chambers didn't have to be 6'-4" to go up for the ball with the best of em. I just want a WR who breaks a damn tackle every once in a while. I just want a WR who isn't afraid to go up for the ball, or go up the middle of the field.

As for Benn, he's projected to go in the late 1st round. We have no chance at drafting Bryant without trading up imo, so Benn should be available when we pick. If we can't get a McClain or maybe a Jerry Hughes in the 1st, I'd certainly consider him. Also wouldn't be opposed to Gresham either.

JCane
11-26-2009, 12:43 PM
The thing about Andre Johnson is that he isn't a finesse wide receiver. Andre Johnson is a MAN among boys. He makes a catch and looks to truck someone. He isn't skipping out of bounds. That's one reason why he's gunning for the yardage crown. And I never said fast doesn't matter. There's certainly a difference between a guy who runs a 4.4 and a guy who runs a 4.7 40 time. But I don't care too much for guys over-analyzing speeds of a guy running a 4.4 and a guy running a 4.5 time.

hooshoops
11-26-2009, 12:55 PM
who's overanalyzing the difference of 1/10 of a second in 40 times??? not me

Lappy
11-26-2009, 12:58 PM
I've been a fan of this kid for the past few years. Now that he's of age he should be drafted first round. He's in my top 5 for sure.

JCane
11-26-2009, 01:12 PM
who's overanalyzing the difference of 1/10 of a second in 40 times??? not me

Guys at the combine. Never said you or anyone here. Guys at the combine and the media are notorious for propping up great 40 times and selling them. It's absurd.

hooshoops
11-26-2009, 01:22 PM
I've been a fan of this kid for the past few years. Now that he's of age he should be drafted first round. He's in my top 5 for sure.

who else in your top 5???

hooshoops
11-26-2009, 01:23 PM
Guys at the combine. Never said you or anyone here. Guys at the combine and the media are notorious for propping up great 40 times and selling them. It's absurd.

i hear that...guys jump 2 rounds or more when they burn the carpet up...and half of them or more can't play football...

just track stars...that's why the game tape should trump all ALWAYS

jim1
11-26-2009, 01:28 PM
The thing about Andre Johnson is that he isn't a finesse wide receiver. Andre Johnson is a MAN among boys. He makes a catch and looks to truck someone. He isn't skipping out of bounds. That's one reason why he's gunning for the yardage crown. And I never said fast doesn't matter. There's certainly a difference between a guy who runs a 4.4 and a guy who runs a 4.7 40 time. But I don't care too much for guys over-analyzing speeds of a guy running a 4.4 and a guy running a 4.5 time.

He truly is a man among boys. The dude is a beast, and a fast beast at that. What a great clutch reception that 4th down grab was over Yeremiah Bell a couple of years ago. Here, I found it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-Ek-vDVMu0

hooshoops
11-26-2009, 01:47 PM
yeah andre johnson is a monster and he's got a good head on his shoulders unlike so many other top wrs...

but make no mistake about it andre johnson has wheels...he's a burner and a physical specimen...

the prototypical nfl wr mold

Mako
11-26-2009, 10:54 PM
Anquan Boldin ran a ****ty 40 time, yet he's easily a top 7 WR in the league.

If I'm not mistaken, Fitz didn't exactly win many foot races either.

Speed is overrated as hell.. Give me a guy who runs good, crisp routes, has good hands and can catch the ball in traffic over a speed demon who drops one out of three any day.

ChadHenne
11-26-2009, 11:00 PM
we've learned this past year that speed doesn't guarantee a good WR.

This draft, the main WR's to look for are Bryant, Tate, Decker, and probably Briscoe if you are looking for a late round steal.

Mako
11-26-2009, 11:02 PM
Briscoe and Decker are my two WR steals in this draft.

aquaman54
11-27-2009, 11:48 AM
Too much emphasis is place on the 40 time. Get me some football players. Irvin was a football player. I want guys like that on this team. Guys who are emotional. Guys who care. Not guys who run blazing fast 40 times and can't play a lick of football.

Helllllllo Ted Ginn!
:hi5::hi5::hi5::hi5::hi5: :up:!!!!!

aquaman54
11-27-2009, 11:57 AM
yeah andre johnson is a monster and he's got a good head on his shoulders unlike so many other top wrs...

but make no mistake about it andre johnson has wheels...he's a burner and a physical specimen...

the prototypical nfl wr mold
......any idea what Andre's contract status is with Houston.Monday night(Tenn/Hou),Jaws was making it sound like his time in Houston was running out,and that he may elect not to stay with them.He is my favorite WR in our beloved NFL.A true #1,prototypical,gamer,and TEAM player.I'd break the bank to put him in aqua/orange(not really,but you know what I mean).Henne/Johnson would be just CRAZY!!! And we'd be bringing our boy back home to top it off!!!

JCane
11-27-2009, 11:58 AM
Jerry Rice was a slow receiver. So was Marvin Harrison.

hooshoops
11-27-2009, 12:54 PM
......any idea what Andre's contract status is with Houston.Monday night(Tenn/Hou),Jaws was making it sound like his time in Houston was running out,and that he may elect not to stay with them.He is my favorite WR in our beloved NFL.A true #1,prototypical,gamer,and TEAM player.I'd break the bank to put him in aqua/orange(not really,but you know what I mean).Henne/Johnson would be just CRAZY!!! And we'd be bringing our boy back home to top it off!!!

he signed a long term extension not long ago...going nowhere

ChadHenne
11-27-2009, 12:56 PM
Andre Johnson signed for 8 years, $60 million in 2007, meaning he has 6 years left on his contract.

Basically, there is a better chance of your deuces turning into money than Fitz or AJ coming to the Fins anytime soon.

Roman529
11-27-2009, 02:56 PM
Gilyard of Cincy looks just as good....I am watching the Cincy-Illinois game. I also like Pike the Cincy QB. 6'6" and nice mobility and a great arm. Too bad we don't need a QB.

LikeUntoGod
12-30-2009, 02:12 PM
Gilyard of Cincy looks just as good....I am watching the Cincy-Illinois game. I also like Pike the Cincy QB. 6'6" and nice mobility and a great arm. Too bad we don't need a QB.

WHAT???? (hehe)

ckparrothead
12-30-2009, 03:16 PM
Anyway, off Andre Johnson (who is fast and gifted as all hell, and did run a 4.40 at his mammoth size, and that's one of the reasons he's so good and also one of the reasons he was drafted so high)...

It would surprise me if Arrelious Benn came in as big as he's purported to be. I'm not saying he's small, but it would surprise me if the dude is 6'2" and 220. I just don't think he's that big. The thing you love about him is he has great eyes for the football and he reaches out and grabs it with strong hands. He goes over the middle, not really afraid of anyone that way. He has really good acceleration. But, he can be a pretty lazy route runner, losing focus for entire stretches of games.

He could go high, all the way up into the first round, if he DOES measure out that big and that fast...but I could also see his story deteriorating strongly, were he to measure in something like 6'1" and 209 lbs, and run a 4.54 or something like that...which honestly wouldn't surprise me.

navphin73
12-30-2009, 03:32 PM
Too much emphasis is place on the 40 time. Get me some football players. Irvin was a football player. I want guys like that on this team. Guys who are emotional. Guys who care. Not guys who run blazing fast 40 times and can't play a lick of football.

Helllllllo Ted Ginn!

the greatest example of that is jerry rice!

Valandui
12-30-2009, 04:21 PM
Andre Johnson had a bad 40 time as well.
Andre Johnson ran a 4.41 at the Combine weighing in at 230lbs.

MiamiDolfan85
12-30-2009, 05:08 PM
Andre Johnson had a bad 40 time as well.
you mean this Andre Johnson?

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=28243&draftyear=2003&genpos=WR

....a 4.4 is a bad time? is it even worse because hes 6'3",230 lbs.?

theres other WRs and corners smaller than Johnson who dont run a 4.4....

a 4.4 is an elite time for ANY position,especially for a WR whos six foot three.

Dont believe everything you hear,my friend....

j-off-her-doll
12-30-2009, 09:23 PM
Getting away from the 40-time discussion, I like Benn a lot. If the staff sticks to their drafting by two's mold, maybe we see Bryant and Benn in Miami gear? I'm not saying it's the best course of action, but imagine if we had a 1-2 punch at WR like we do at CB? Really, I just like Bryant and Benn, and I'm daydreaming. I don't think there's any chance it'll happen.

justdev7
12-30-2009, 11:34 PM
Benn would be a great pick in the second round but i've seen a few people say that his hands are a little shaky and that's not what you want to hear about a potential 1st rounder.

hooshoops
12-31-2009, 12:28 AM
Anyway, off Andre Johnson (who is fast and gifted as all hell, and did run a 4.40 at his mammoth size, and that's one of the reasons he's so good and also one of the reasons he was drafted so high)...

It would surprise me if Arrelious Benn came in as big as he's purported to be. I'm not saying he's small, but it would surprise me if the dude is 6'2" and 220. I just don't think he's that big. The thing you love about him is he has great eyes for the football and he reaches out and grabs it with strong hands. He goes over the middle, not really afraid of anyone that way. He has really good acceleration. But, he can be a pretty lazy route runner, losing focus for entire stretches of games.

He could go high, all the way up into the first round, if he DOES measure out that big and that fast...but I could also see his story deteriorating strongly, were he to measure in something like 6'1" and 209 lbs, and run a 4.54 or something like that...which honestly wouldn't surprise me.

i think you may be right about benns actual size...i don't think he's a true 6 ft 2 and 220 but i don't understand why if he was 6 ft 1 and 209 and ran a 4.54 it would effect his draft status that much...

i mean we both agree the acceleration is definitely there...he carries defenders for extra yards i see the ability to separate in and out of cuts...what i don't see is the kind of acceleration off the line at the snap that i see with the ball in his hands when he's headed downhill with his shoulders square but that kind of looks to me like an effort thing that needs to be coached more than a just doesn't have explosion at the snap...

explain to me why it matters so much draft status wise if he comes in an inch shorter than listed and runs a 4.5 forty???

if he's on the board in the mid 2nd round i think he's a flat out steal...he doesn't pop off the screen at me like dez bryant does but in bryant i see more bonafide top 10 in the league #1 wr in benn i see a faster version of anquan boldin...either of which we sure could use

MP-Omnis
12-31-2009, 12:29 AM
Jerry Rice was a slow receiver. So was Marvin Harrison.

Prime Marvin Harrison changed direction and exploded out of his routes so well. Dude was a killer route-runner.

ckparrothead
12-31-2009, 12:40 PM
i think you may be right about benns actual size...i don't think he's a true 6 ft 2 and 220 but i don't understand why if he was 6 ft 1 and 209 and ran a 4.54 it would effect his draft status that much...

i mean we both agree the acceleration is definitely there...he carries defenders for extra yards i see the ability to separate in and out of cuts...what i don't see is the kind of acceleration off the line at the snap that i see with the ball in his hands when he's headed downhill with his shoulders square but that kind of looks to me like an effort thing that needs to be coached more than a just doesn't have explosion at the snap...

explain to me why it matters so much draft status wise if he comes in an inch shorter than listed and runs a 4.5 forty???

if he's on the board in the mid 2nd round i think he's a flat out steal...he doesn't pop off the screen at me like dez bryant does but in bryant i see more bonafide top 10 in the league #1 wr in benn i see a faster version of anquan boldin...either of which we sure could use

It matters because he hasn't done enough. He basically flopped his entire junior season. You can say it's because of a bad QB and an ankle injury he suffered in the first game, but what if it's not that?

At 6'1" and 209 lbs with a 4.54 in the 40, he's really not that interesting a prospect. It might be different if he'd shown some amount of consistency during his career. At 6'2" and 220 pounds running a 4.44, he's a very interesting prospect...even despite the junior year inconsistency. The inches, the pounds, the speed, they matter.

I think you hit the nail on the head with one of his weaknesses. He doesn't seem to get open quickly off the snap. He's got the acceleration with the ball in his hands, and I agree that he runs with a certain heaviness to him that will help him in the NFL, plus what I was saying about the eyes and the hands...but if you're not able to get open quickly in the NFL you won't make it.

Lord Of Miami
12-31-2009, 12:54 PM
Kind of like Chris Chambers.

For as Big as he is, i'd like to see him play with a lil more "balls".

Oraclepz
12-31-2009, 02:24 PM
Reminds me of Hakeem Nicks a lil bit. But like i said before i would not draft this guy in the first round....2nd yes...

Roman529
12-31-2009, 04:31 PM
Benn has really nice size and the ability to catch it in traffic. I have him right behind Dez Bryant and Golden Tate.

AphexPhin
01-03-2010, 02:18 PM
Dont let Benn's stats fool you. He has had a horrible QB to work with and his coach is Zook (I'm sure you Gator fans are well aware of who that is). The OC of Illinois left last season so the offense this season was stagnet.

Take it from me, Benn is a beast. He is 6'2 and built like a gladiator. Basically a younger version of Anquan Boldin.