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View Full Version : WalterFootball changed our pick (Surprising Pick)



FinaticalOne
12-03-2009, 07:48 PM
They changed our pick from Terrence Cody to Dan Williams in the first round. Is Dan Williams first round worthy? Walterfootball thinks so...

This is not a bad pick only because I was never sold on Terrence Cody because he is only a two-down NT. If I was a GM, I would use my first round pick on a DT who is capable of playing all downs, and Cody does not fit that role, so I can see why they have Williams ranked above Cody. I'm just need to see more tape on Williams to become more comfortable with him as a first rounder.

What does everyone else thinks about this change?

http://walterfootball.com/draft2010.php

TedSlimmJr
12-03-2009, 08:28 PM
I said Dan Williams was going to be mentioned in the 1st round by the time the draft rolls around way back in the summer and that I prefer him over Cody all along......this guy is an animal...

etown08
12-03-2009, 08:33 PM
Benn Will never last last until our pick in the second round! I cant believe Dez was not the first WR taken. I would rather have Spikes because the FO can find a NT in later rounds this wouldnt even be a problem if we switched to a 4-3

houtz
12-03-2009, 09:30 PM
If Bryant is there with our 1st rounder and we don't take him I will be so ****ing pissed.

Ricky4Life
12-03-2009, 11:31 PM
Don't know if we will take a NT in the first round. BP likes to find his later round gem and develop them. I think we will trade down and get as many picks as possible this draft, its time for the FO to fill the holes and there is plenty of depth to do it.

GoonBoss
12-04-2009, 02:42 AM
I think he's going to be a 1st rounder, and I'd love to have them. I absolutely hate players that take plays off, and, that's Cody. I've never liked the guy.

I admit never having heard of Williams, but, he seems well regarded.

Durden
12-04-2009, 05:45 AM
Dan Williams being drafted ahead of Cody is not going to happen. No way.

Clipse
12-04-2009, 10:12 AM
I love Williams and he is better than Cody. Cody just may be the 2nd most overrated player in the draft behind Taylor Mays. 1st round worthy? Could be. Would I take him in the 1st? Probably not. I want a linebacker.

DOC33
12-04-2009, 01:45 PM
I think Williams is the better all around player and there is no way that he will last until the Fins pick in the second round. He can also probably move out to DE in MIA's scheme at times if Ferggie comes back next year. Dont be surprised if Cody drops to the second round although I doubt he drops all the way to MIA's pick in the second. Remember a lot of teams will be looking for a NT this year including starters for MIA, KC, and DEN, and developmental back-ups for PIT, DAL, SD, GB amongst others and even 4-3 teams are looking for similar DT's as well including CAR, TB, BUF,TEN, DET so expect the big uglies to be over drafted.

AlexISaFaN
12-04-2009, 02:18 PM
If we got Eric Decker in 2010 i would be very happy !

Roman529
12-04-2009, 02:34 PM
I still would like Rolando McClain over Cody if we go defense first. Cody is going to eat himself out of the league. I would then grab the best WR in Round 2....hopefully Golden Tate would still be on the board. Then grab a NT, or OLB/DE in Round 3 like Tyler Alualu of Cal.

ckparrothead
12-04-2009, 02:55 PM
Dan Williams is definitely a beast. I would not mind him at all.

Terrence Cody is too but there have to be questions about his weight and eating habits. The Dolphins employ pretty strict rules about that stuff. You don't want a guy that is constantly breaking your team rules to where you have to suspend him from games and whatnot. You also don't want a guy that you start relaxing your rules for.

On the other hand, Terrence Cody knocks more offensive linemen to the ground with regularity than I've probably seen in a NT at the college level. He faces a double every time he gets on the field and if he doesn't, he makes the single blocker pay. And despite his girth, he is on the field for a whole lot of snaps, and doesn't seem to wear down in the fourth quarter.

ckparrothead
12-04-2009, 03:00 PM
Overall if we came out of this draft with Dan Williams, Rejus Benn and Morgan Burnett...I would be absolutely, positively thrilled. Homerun.

jim1
12-04-2009, 03:28 PM
Overall if we came out of this draft with Dan Williams, Rejus Benn and Morgan Burnett...I would be absolutely, positively thrilled. Homerun.

Amen. I was thinking Benn then Wiliams, but now it looks like if anything it would be the other way around. I would be thrilled with a Williams/Benn combo- if Benn falls to us in the 2nd because of doubts about his senior year, that would be fantastic. Best 2nd rd fall since Henne slipped to us in the late 2nd rd. Assist credited to GB for taking that Louisville guy one pick before.

Durden
12-04-2009, 05:10 PM
Terrence Cody is too but there have to be questions about his weight and eating habits. The Dolphins employ pretty strict rules about that stuff. You don't want a guy that is constantly breaking your team rules to where you have to suspend him from games and whatnot. You also don't want a guy that you start relaxing your rules for.
Cody arrived at Alabama at 410 pounds and is now down to 350. If anything, this proves that he can keep his weight under control if he has to.

SR 7
12-04-2009, 08:33 PM
Cody will be a huge bust.

as will Taylor Mayes

hooshoops
12-04-2009, 11:21 PM
Overall if we came out of this draft with Dan Williams, Rejus Benn and Morgan Burnett...I would be absolutely, positively thrilled. Homerun.

i'd be stoked with that myself...but i find it hard watching benn on tape seeing him still on the board in the middle of round 2

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 12:25 AM
i also don't know after watching a bunch of tape on demaryious thomas how he's not anywhere on that 3 round mock...

he's got #1 wr upside if you can wait for him to develop and for his size his hands are very impressive...

ckparrothead
12-05-2009, 12:44 AM
Cody arrived at Alabama at 410 pounds and is now down to 350. If anything, this proves that he can keep his weight under control if he has to.

That's probably a good point. He has shown he can keep it somewhat under control. You have to keep a tight rein on him though, I'm sure.

FinsFanatic777
12-05-2009, 12:44 AM
Dez Bryant lasting until pick 28? We should jump back in the first round to snatch him if he falls that late.

ckparrothead
12-05-2009, 12:45 AM
i'd be stoked with that myself...but i find it hard watching benn on tape seeing him still on the board in the middle of round 2

That's true, but keep in mind he really has had a very disappointing season in 2009. He got hurt on the first series of his first game, missed a bunch of time, never really got back into the offense, was outperformed by some of his own receivers. If he comes into the Combine maybe a little smaller than people thought he was? I could see it.

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 12:49 AM
That's true, but keep in mind he really has had a very disappointing season in 2009. He got hurt on the first series of his first game, missed a bunch of time, never really got back into the offense, was outperformed by some of his own receivers. If he comes into the Combine maybe a little smaller than people thought he was? I could see it.

well juice williams does him no favors also...but he's got a different gear when he gets the ball and turns his shoulders square and heads downhill and you can see it on tape...

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 12:51 AM
Dez Bryant lasting until pick 28? We should jump back in the first round to snatch him if he falls that late.

i love dan williams love him but if dez bryant is on the board when we pick in the first i don't know how we pass that up...i just don't

ckparrothead
12-05-2009, 12:53 AM
i also don't know after watching a bunch of tape on demaryious thomas how he's not anywhere on that 3 round mock...

he's got #1 wr upside if you can wait for him to develop and for his size his hands are very impressive...

There's a speed question there. He's big but that's not going to do him much good if he can't run at the next level. When you're that big you have to prove you can get off the line of scrimmage when you're jammed. He has more to prove, IMO. He's basically like a large TE that runs deep down the field and gets singled up because of that triple option attack. Don't know if that will cut it at the next level.

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 12:57 AM
There's a speed question there. He's big but that's not going to do him much good if he can't run at the next level. When you're that big you have to prove you can get off the line of scrimmage when you're jammed. He has more to prove, IMO.

i agree...but he looks like a 4.5 guy to me on tape...but i'll be watching to see what he runs and he would take time to develop

i still say with that kind of upside the 3rd round is a steal

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 01:00 AM
That's probably a good point. He has shown he can keep it somewhat under control. You have to keep a tight rein on him though, I'm sure.

i'm not a fan of codys weight issues and i don't see a motor anywhere along the lines of dan williams

i heard he arrived at bama at 398 lbs and is down now to 358...i just worry about once that guy realizes he can afford to eat at ruth chris steakhouse every night for the rest of his life with his nfl contract will he have issues maintaining a good playing weight...i think at 345 he can be dominant but at 360 i don't think he's gonna have the kind of stamina at the nfl level...

i mean does this kid get into the 370 lb range in the offseason??? it bothers me

ckparrothead
12-05-2009, 01:02 AM
When you watch that Duke 88 yard pass on tape you see three guys at top speed all running about the same speed. Demaryius Thomas is one, the other two Duke players have different speeds though. The strong safety ran a 4.60 at his pro day and the free safety ran a 4.48 at his pro day. I think the most logical conclusion is that the strong safety was not running faster than he was capable of at his pro day, but the free safety probably had some bad running technique and was slower on that play than he's capable of being. If that is true then it looks like Demaryius has about the same speed as a 4.60 guy that plays at a high game speed.

I'm not sure that will cut it at the next level. Maybe if he loses some weight and gets leaner like Brandon Marshall did. The biggest thing to me will be proving he can get off the jam.

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 01:05 AM
When you watch that Duke 88 yard pass on tape you see three guys at top speed all running about the same speed. Demaryius Thomas is one, the other two Duke players have different speeds though. The strong safety ran a 4.60 at his pro day and the free safety ran a 4.48 at his pro day. I think the most logical conclusion is that the strong safety was not running faster than he was capable of at his pro day, but the free safety probably had some bad running technique and was slower on that play than he's capable of being. If that is true then it looks like Demaryius has about the same speed as a 4.60 guy that plays at a high game speed.

I'm not sure that will cut it at the next level. Maybe if he loses some weight and gets leaner like Brandon Marshall did. The biggest thing to me will be proving he can get off the jam.

now that's interesting...i wasn't aware of what those kids ran... :thanks:

ckparrothead
12-05-2009, 01:12 AM
i'm not a fan of codys weight issues and i don't see a motor anywhere along the lines of dan williams

i heard he arrived at bama at 398 lbs and is down now to 358...i just worry about once that guy realizes he can afford to eat at ruth chris steakhouse every night for the rest of his life with his nfl contract will he have issues maintaining a good playing weight...i think at 345 he can be dominant but at 360 i don't think he's gonna have the kind of stamina at the nfl level...

i mean does this kid get into the 370 lb range in the offseason??? it bothers me

I'm with you I hate worrying about that. But the fact that he COULD get it under control like that shows you something. If you have a team that enforces strict policy on that stuff, actually shows that they enforce it (and Miami has indeed cut off its nose to spite its face in this regard), then if he can get control of that stuff in college when he's a poor man, he can get control of it in the pros when he can afford nutritionists and expensive food and all of that stuff. I don't know about you but I find it's EASIER to eat healthy the more money you have. So I'm not sure I see things eye to eye as far as what he'll do with money. I think the biggest thing is for him to step into a locker room where he knows that team rules regarding weight are STRICT, they are ENFORCED, and the veterans in the locker room all EXPECT you to live by them.

You know, Jason Ferguson is not what he's listed. I know people who are close enough to the situation to know he is at least 350 pounds. In fact, I believe it was Joe Rose that said that 350 pounds is all Ferguson would cop to but that he's probably bigger.

Here's one real important issue about a nose tackle though with respect to things like "motor"...and it's why it is a very tough position to fill at the NFL level. You have to WANT to play NT in order to play it well. It's a different position. It's not about penetration, it's not even necessarily about motor, it's about that constant, never-ending battle with two guys on most every play, just trying to stay at home and not be moved.

I know that Terrence Cody has that mentality. I know he enjoys it. Dan Williams, though I like him tremendously, I don't *know* that he has that mentality.

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 01:13 AM
There's a speed question there. He's big but that's not going to do him much good if he can't run at the next level. When you're that big you have to prove you can get off the line of scrimmage when you're jammed. He has more to prove, IMO. He's basically like a large TE that runs deep down the field and gets singled up because of that triple option attack. Don't know if that will cut it at the next level.

that's been a concern of mine as well

ckparrothead
12-05-2009, 01:20 AM
As a matter of habit when I'm watching tape I always keep an eye out for instances where I can truly calibrate a player's speed. Dezmon Briscoe for instance ran step for step with Lendy Holmes on a big play a year ago, and Lendy runs something like a 4.67. That doesn't mean Briscoe will run the same, I'm sure he probably accelerates faster than Lendy did at the Combine, but when you look at Lendy's top speed at about 21 mph, then I think I'd be comfortable saying that Briscoe will top out at about that speed.

Adrian Aye-Darko, the slower of the pair of players chasing Demaryius on that play, tops out at about 21 mph.

The fastest guys go into 23.0 to 23.5 mph. On the other hand, Hakeem Nicks topped out at about 21.5 mph so you can definitely be a playmaker at that speed. But Nicks had a very special combination of abilities IMO and I'm not sure if Thomas has proven to me that he has those. Then again, he very well might.

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 01:20 AM
well i don't know if dan williams has that mentality but i do know after watching a bunch of his tape that he deals with double teams like all the time and despite that he only goes where he wants to go...

he commands double teams

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 01:26 AM
why is briscoe coming out??? he must be getting some bad information...if he thinks he's a 2nd round pick i think he's off his rocker...

i'm just not impressed as a high impact nfl player

and yeah i agree with you that thomas hasn't shown a skillset quite like nicks...

ckparrothead
12-05-2009, 01:36 AM
There's been a very quiet problem brewing between the NFL and NCAA over the game tapes they provide to teams for evaluation. The NCAA was trying to get paid more for the tapes. They only very recently resolved the issue but it meant that teams didn't have coaches tape of the players. Once the tapes started flowing the first players they get caught up on are the seniors, especially since they had tape on file of these players from junior year. The juniors though, they might not have sophomore tape that is really indicative of their talent, and they're the last guys that the scouts will get caught up on...and what this means is the NFL Advisory Committee is handcuffed in their evaluations when players put in for a grade. They might not even be able to give those evaluations or they might not be very thorough. That puts the decision much more in the hands of these players that generally tend to think the world of themselves.

Durden
12-05-2009, 04:48 AM
i'm not a fan of codys weight issues and i don't see a motor anywhere along the lines of dan williams

i heard he arrived at bama at 398 lbs and is down now to 358...i just worry about once that guy realizes he can afford to eat at ruth chris steakhouse every night for the rest of his life with his nfl contract will he have issues maintaining a good playing weight...i think at 345 he can be dominant but at 360 i don't think he's gonna have the kind of stamina at the nfl level..
Could be true. But on the other hand the guy actually played at 400 pounds in junior college. He's kind of a natural big.

houtz
12-05-2009, 08:20 AM
I again don't know how we'd be able to pass up Dez Bryant if he's there when we pick. I just really don't.

ckparrothead
12-05-2009, 11:17 AM
I agree but he won't be there.

hooshoops
12-05-2009, 12:52 PM
bryant looks like top 10 talent to me easy...benn i'm more in the 20 to 30 range right now...tate high 2nd round

jim1
12-05-2009, 01:30 PM
bryant looks like top 10 talent to me easy...benn i'm more in the 20 to 30 range right now...tate high 2nd round

I'm still focused on Benn. DT Dan Williams is creeping up, but Benn is always there. Coming from my perspective, that our WRs are the worst in the league, reaching a bit for Benn wouldn't bother me. But if Benn and Williams are both there... tough call. I could see it being Williams and then praying that Benn or Tate fall a bit.

ckparrothead
12-05-2009, 03:16 PM
I like Rejus Benn but when I look back at where some guys like Santonio Holmes and Hakeem Nicks were taken, guys I consider to be superior draft prospects, I just don't see taking Benn with our first pick unless we win the next 5 straight and end up picking real low.