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Miamian
11-11-2003, 12:44 PM
Where else in the Middle East is this even conceivable?

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/7235391.htm

PhinPhan1227
11-11-2003, 03:29 PM
Do you mean where else in the Middle East would this film be shown? I assume you're comparing Israel's restrictions of free speech to the rest of the Middle Easts restrictions on Free Speech. Honestly, is Israel aspiring to their example, or America's?

Miamian
11-11-2003, 05:25 PM
You assume correctly. The film, of course, could be shown anywhere in the Middle East because it villifies Israel. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that Arab governments will finance worldwide distribution.

The whole point I'm making is that while the world is always ready to condemn Israel for actions that most of them commit themselves, they always fail to remember that Israel is by far the most democratic country in the Middle East. If a film had been made that would portray the militants unfavorably, it would be banned in every Arab country and probably most predominantly Muslim countries, with the possible exceptions of Turkey and Indonesia. Yet, Israel is always held to the higher standard.

I guess, in relation to my post in the other thread, that's Israel's lot. It just would be nice if the rest of the world would recognize Israel for what it is and not always for the wars it's forced to fight or the decisions made by field commanders.

PhinPhan1227
11-12-2003, 09:43 AM
And my point is that Israel SHOULD be held to a higher standard. They're the only free society in the Middle East so why wouldn't they? Again, they shouldn't be held to the standards of their neighbors, they should be held to the standards of a free society.

Miamian
11-12-2003, 10:31 PM
We agree. Israel should be held to a higher standard. But, I also believe that as Americans, we also hold Israel to a higher standard than we do ourselves.

Cases in point: Israel is condemned worldwide for targeting militants with air-to-surface missles. American governments have been critical of the practice. Yet, we tried to do the same with Osama bin Laden. We just missed.

Israel is condemned for using bombs to strike militants. We did the same in Afghanistan.

Israel is condemned for not ceding territory taken in war for defensive purposes. We seized half of Mexico 160 years ago in a time of aggressive expansionism and there was never any inclination on our part to give any of it back.

Israel is condemned for sealing itself off with a wall to prevent suicide attacks on civilians. We've erected fencing along our border with Mexico to keep out immigrants for economic and some would argue for reasons based on ethnic discrimination.

The rest of the west is much the same. Canada also frequently condemns Israel. Israel's number one industry before the intifada was tourism. While they haven't been quiescent with the world's criticism, compare them to Canada for a moment. Chretien complained bitterly that Toronto was included on the SARS quarantine list and tourism is not Canada's, and I don't know, but I'm fairly certain, not Toronto's biggest industry.

PhinPhan1227
11-13-2003, 09:32 AM
Last time I checked, we didn't fire surface to air rockets into a crowd to take out a single car. We used machine guns yes, but we didn't fire a maverick missile to take out a CAR!! Don't get me wrong, I think that Israel has the right to defend itself against an enemy that TARGETS women and children. But at the same time, Israel has done some things which are worthy of condemnation as well. And if you're going to bring up the Mexican American war, you can go back about 50 years to Israel's terrorist past of blowing up British civilians in Shepheards hotel.

Miamian
11-14-2003, 12:23 AM
The similitude that I was referring to with the Mexican War was in relation to our seizing territory, which the rest of the world including us, has concluded that Israel singularly does not have the right to do, no matter if it's a case of national defense or not. As for the rest, we all have bloody hands. Who then has the right to condemn?

PhinPhan1227
11-14-2003, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Miamian
The similitude that I was referring to with the Mexican War was in relation to our seizing territory, which the rest of the world including us, has concluded that Israel singularly does not have the right to do, no matter if it's a case of national defense or not. As for the rest, we all have bloody hands. Who then has the right to condemn?

History is a lesson to be learned from. America has made mistakes, but right now we're standing on the highest moral ground of any major world power.