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Seminole51
12-09-2009, 10:34 AM
Im just curious, if the Fins had the chance to draft either of these guys who would you rather have? Unfortunately I dont know much about Bryant because OSU never really got a tremendous amount of coverage on the East coast, but from what I understand the man is tall, fast, and has very good hands. Golden Tate is stuffed down your throat because of Notre Dame, however he also seems to be very good. Of course, this is all at the college level though... So who would you go with? OR if there is another WR out there that you think is worthy of looking at, drop their name into the mix also.

On a NON WR note, I hate Clemson, but god would CJ Spiller look good in aqua and orange or what? :-)

outlawd2u
12-09-2009, 10:39 AM
I'm not sure but I don't think Miami will be picking high enough to get any of those 3 players. I also wouldn't see them taking CJ Spiller even if he was on the board. IMO they're either taking a WR, DT, or MLB in the first round, if they do anything else I'd be shocked.

Seminole51
12-09-2009, 10:43 AM
I completely agree with the 1st round pick, however I can dream... the kid (Spiller) is just a big play waiting to happen. I pray that the Bills, Jets or Pats dont take him.

BobDole
12-09-2009, 10:48 AM
i want an ILB in the 1st myself - and get the WR in FA. but if not - i'd be happy with either one - although benn is my favorite of the bunch. benn, bryant, and tate are the most impressive of a very non impressive WR crop this year.

houtz
12-09-2009, 11:03 AM
i want an ILB in the 1st myself - and get the WR in FA. but if not - i'd be happy with either one - although benn is my favorite of the bunch. benn, bryant, and tate are the most impressive of a very non impressive WR crop this year.

Last I heard Illinois was trying to get Benn to stay. They just offered his brother a scholarship in hopes that Benn would stay for his senior year.

If Benn's not there the WRs in the draft will be slim pickings. Unless we can find that star in the later rounds.

IMO we get a WR in Free Agency or trade. Antonio Bryant or Anquan Boldin is my guess. If we want Brandon Marshall we'd have to pray to god they reach a CBA agreement otherwise he's going to cost a 1st and a 3rd. Same can be said for Vincent Jackson.

Miles Austin is also another player that the Cowboys will most likely resign.

There's a few WRs in Free Agency that would be worth taking a look at that don't jump out at you. Jason Avant has the size and build to be a good WR. Is he #1 WR material? I'm not sure.

Then there's Braylon "I make great catches but drop easy ones" Edwards, he's another interesting Free Agent because he has the big play ability that we lack so much. But he's just to inconsistent. I could really see him being in Miami considering we went out and tried to "trade " for him or according to Schefter we listened to offers for him.

I just don't see us getting a WR in Free Agent and then drafting one early in the draft. Unless there's a player there that you can't pass up I think it'd be a late to mid round pick. I just can't see the Front Office having a ton of WRs at the start of the season next year.

Hartline, Bess, Turner, and Camarillo are most likely all safe. Camarillo could be part of a trade but really what would any team give up for him?

Then there is Ginn. Although he isn't worth his steep contract he could go either way. Miami might keep him because he has the speed and could really benefit from having a true #1 WR.

I guess Turner could be cut but you never know.

So if we don't cut anyone other then Ginn we'd already have 4 WRs on the roster. Perhaps we could get a Free Agent WR and then have a rookie WR battle it out with Turner for that #5 spot?

Who knows. All I know is unless you're going after Bryant, Tate, Benn or possibly Lafell there aren't to many names that jump out and grab you. I'd love to have Tate because he reminds me a lot of a Steve Smith/Desean Jackson Hybrid I just don't see us picking that high to get him.

We'll see.

SQuinn17
12-09-2009, 11:05 AM
I hate the Gators, but Brandon Spikes would look damn good in a Dolphins uniform. He could eye gouge the Jets on a daily basis.

RockyMtnPhinfan
12-09-2009, 11:07 AM
i want an ILB in the 1st myself - and get the WR in FA. but if not - i'd be happy with either one - although benn is my favorite of the bunch. benn, bryant, and tate are the most impressive of a very non impressive WR crop this year.

Funny thing is, i have heard form guys who watch college ball (i do not) that the WR depth in the draft this year is supposedly very good. I can only hope this is true, as we need a big #1 WR with speed.

Howard Stern
12-09-2009, 11:12 AM
IMO we get a WR in Free Agency or trade. Antonio Bryant or Anquan Boldin is my guess. If we want Brandon Marshall we'd have to pray to god they reach a CBA agreement otherwise he's going to cost a 1st and a 3rd. Same can be said for Vincent Jackson.

Antonio Bryant?! I don't know about you guys, but if our WR upgrade consists of Antonio Bryant, I am going to be one unhappy camper. Talk about a waste of Henne's rocket. We might as well sign Braylon Edwards.
Now Antonio Bryant AND a top WR/Boldin then ok. But that is highly unlikely.

as for the rest..

Anquan Boldin? might leave ARI so maybe
Brandon Marshall? Not going anywhere
Vincent Jackson? Not going anywhere

It is basically Boldin or bust in FA. Miles Austin is their new star in Dallas, he isn't going anywhere. I HATE trading up, but we NEED to draft a WR in the first, unless we could snag Boldin.

skipp2myloo13
12-09-2009, 11:13 AM
Def no to Spiller, too many other needs

Gadsden86
12-09-2009, 11:21 AM
I want a WR in the 1st. I wanted to take Nicks in the draft last year but we got VD. Not bad with him either but would have been nice to get Nicks.

tical
12-09-2009, 11:26 AM
I hate the Gators, but Brandon Spikes would look damn good in a Dolphins uniform. He could eye gouge the Jets on a daily basis.


Did you see Brandon Spikes in the game versus a "real" team with a real running back? (Alabama in comparison to all the schools florida played this year!). He made no plays at all and he was on the ground more times than i can remember! i pray to god we don't draft him..the guys no where near as good as his reputation and did i mention how slow he is! The best player on florida's D, is Joe hayden! the guy performs regardless of the competition unlike Spikes who only seems to show-up versus FIU!

Geforce
12-09-2009, 11:28 AM
You guys do realize that Anquan Boldin does not become a free agent until AFTER the 2010 season.

ckparrothead
12-09-2009, 11:32 AM
Antonio Bryant?! I don't know about you guys, but if our WR upgrade consists of Antonio Bryant, I am going to be one unhappy camper. Talk about a waste of Henne's rocket. We might as well sign Braylon Edwards.
Now Antonio Bryant AND a top WR/Boldin then ok. But that is highly unlikely.

as for the rest..

Anquan Boldin? might leave ARI so maybe
Brandon Marshall? Not going anywhere
Vincent Jackson? Not going anywhere

It is basically Boldin or bust in FA. Miles Austin is their new star in Dallas, he isn't going anywhere. I HATE trading up, but we NEED to draft a WR in the first, unless we could snag Boldin.

Beggars can't be choosers. I agree with you that Antonio Bryant is just the BEGINNING of what should be our plans for the WR position, but the fact of the matter is he's far better than anyone we have on roster. He just made another play the other day (one of many) that none of the players on this roster have ever made.

ckparrothead
12-09-2009, 11:34 AM
Oh and by the way, Dez Bryant and it's not even a question in my book.

Dez won't be on the board. Golden Tate might be. Hand consistency concerns me about Tate. But, I wonder if that's being picky as he catches a lot of balls, especially tough ones.

I'm not sure I see us going WR in the first round just as an availability of talent thing. I think Antonio Bryant will be a Dolphins next year and then they'll draft someone else later than the first round.

tical
12-09-2009, 11:36 AM
Here's a realization, Miami picks-up no big name receivers this off-season. Not because their not gonna try, but because no one is giving up/letting go any of the receivers people have been mentioning!

I predict they're gonna draft the best receiver they can and sign the best free-agent WR they can find! (which will be a second-tier receiver)

ckparrothead
12-09-2009, 11:40 AM
It seems very unlikely that Antonio Bryant will be back in Tampa next year. They're both unhappy with one another and they won't franchise him again.

BobDole
12-09-2009, 11:42 AM
Last I heard Illinois was trying to get Benn to stay. They just offered his brother a scholarship in hopes that Benn would stay for his senior year.

If Benn's not there the WRs in the draft will be slim pickings. Unless we can find that star in the later rounds.

IMO we get a WR in Free Agency or trade. Antonio Bryant or Anquan Boldin is my guess. If we want Brandon Marshall we'd have to pray to god they reach a CBA agreement otherwise he's going to cost a 1st and a 3rd. Same can be said for Vincent Jackson.

Miles Austin is also another player that the Cowboys will most likely resign.

There's a few WRs in Free Agency that would be worth taking a look at that don't jump out at you. Jason Avant has the size and build to be a good WR. Is he #1 WR material? I'm not sure.

Then there's Braylon "I make great catches but drop easy ones" Edwards, he's another interesting Free Agent because he has the big play ability that we lack so much. But he's just to inconsistent. I could really see him being in Miami considering we went out and tried to "trade " for him or according to Schefter we listened to offers for him.

I just don't see us getting a WR in Free Agent and then drafting one early in the draft. Unless there's a player there that you can't pass up I think it'd be a late to mid round pick. I just can't see the Front Office having a ton of WRs at the start of the season next year.

Hartline, Bess, Turner, and Camarillo are most likely all safe. Camarillo could be part of a trade but really what would any team give up for him?

Then there is Ginn. Although he isn't worth his steep contract he could go either way. Miami might keep him because he has the speed and could really benefit from having a true #1 WR.

I guess Turner could be cut but you never know.

So if we don't cut anyone other then Ginn we'd already have 4 WRs on the roster. Perhaps we could get a Free Agent WR and then have a rookie WR battle it out with Turner for that #5 spot?

Who knows. All I know is unless you're going after Bryant, Tate, Benn or possibly Lafell there aren't to many names that jump out and grab you. I'd love to have Tate because he reminds me a lot of a Steve Smith/Desean Jackson Hybrid I just don't see us picking that high to get him.

We'll see.

i'd honestly be happy with either bryant or boldin - but would obviously like boldin more. i see it in terms of letting henne grow and improve and do all that we can to ensure that he doesn't fall flat on his face like the last umpteenth dolphins QB's more than anything else. you never know what you're getting with a rookie receiver - and henne can't wait much longer for a #1. i don't want there any chance of him being the 'next in line to fail' - let's give him all the tools he needs to succeed. rolling the dice on a rook is just too risky IMO - we've waited long enough for someone to replace dan. let's let henne be it and be done with it.

i think benn, bryant, and tate are the 'safest' of this year's crop but who knows how much time it will take for them to develop into quality NFL receivers. that's time we don't have. besides, that 1st round pick has spikes' or mcclain's name written all over it. :chuckle:

i don't like lafell - at all. he might be good some point but he's as raw as they come and will need a lot of work at the next level. big pass on him.

i think this year's group is pretty safe as well. ginn would be gone in a heartbeat if he had any value, too bad he doesn't. bess, camarillo, and hartline are pretty solid - they're all just complimentary guys though - who will look so much better on sundays when a #1 receiver is on the field with them.

good post man.

Howard Stern
12-09-2009, 11:43 AM
Beggars can't be choosers. I agree with you that Antonio Bryant is just the BEGINNING of what should be our plans for the WR position, but the fact of the matter is he's far better than anyone we have on roster. He just made another play the other day (one of many) that none of the players on this roster have ever made.

I did see that catch. However, some plays doesn't make him an upgrade. Watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6lEl2wOn1A&feature=PlayList&p=732BB90C2B5F6E14&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=43 and you'll think the answer is already on our roster in Ted Ginn Jr. The catch Ginn made in double coverage against Seattle was one of the most insane catches I have ever seen. I remember dropping my jaw when I saw it. Now this year, we all drop our jaw for the opposite reason. Antonio Bryant hopefully will be secondary to the main WR upgrade on our roster, whether through the draft or FA. That's all I am sayin'. Or else we are going to have to endure another season of "FIRE SPORANO" & "WE NEED WRs!" threads.


I'm not sure I see us going WR in the first round just as an availability of talent thing. I think Antonio Bryant will be a Dolphins next year and then they'll draft someone else later than the first round.

Unfortunately, this is what I think will happen. And to be honest, it scares the **** out of me. If we spend another 2-3 round pick on a receiver who can't even see the field all year, muchless get a reception, I will be sick.

BobDole
12-09-2009, 11:43 AM
Funny thing is, i have heard form guys who watch college ball (i do not) that the WR depth in the draft this year is supposedly very good. I can only hope this is true, as we need a big #1 WR with speed.

they lied to you. it's not deep in that department this year at all. next year - then you're talkin.

tay0365
12-09-2009, 12:01 PM
i want an ILB in the 1st myself - and get the WR in FA. but if not - i'd be happy with either one - although benn is my favorite of the bunch. benn, bryant, and tate are the most impressive of a very non impressive WR crop this year.

This is exactly what I am hoping for, if we can get an experienced WR, problem #1 is fixed, get a good I-LB in the draft to put next to Crowder (Yes Crowder), the inside becomes better, but we will still need to fix the NT problem, can't continue to hope Furgie will be there much longer.

Howard Stern
12-09-2009, 12:06 PM
This is exactly what I am hoping for, if we can get an experienced WR, problem #1 is fixed, get a good I-LB in the draft to put next to Crowder (Yes Crowder), the inside becomes better, but we will still need to fix the NT problem, can't continue to hope Furgie will be there much longer.

If we fix the WR problem with a FA...and sign a good I-LB in the first....We better get a S in the 2nd or 3rd because our safeties are Mickeyyy Mouse, mainly the Gerbil. Bell isn't that bad. I hope Clemons becomes a solid starter for us next year.

ChambersWI
12-09-2009, 12:18 PM
Tate being a first rounder depends totally on how he runs and how he interviews.

Tate is marked anywhere between a 4.3 and a 4.5. If he runs 4.5 he's a 2nd, 4.4 boarderline, and 4.3 a first.

Tate, much like Jimmy Claussen, has supposed attitude issues. Only reason Crabtree wasn't a top 5 pick was he turned Seattle and Cleveland away with his interviews

ckparrothead
12-09-2009, 12:25 PM
I did see that catch. However, some plays doesn't make him an upgrade. Watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6lEl2wOn1A&feature=PlayList&p=732BB90C2B5F6E14&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=43 and you'll think the answer is already on our roster in Ted Ginn Jr. The catch Ginn made in double coverage against Seattle was one of the most insane catches I have ever seen. I remember dropping my jaw when I saw it. Now this year, we all drop our jaw for the opposite reason. Antonio Bryant hopefully will be secondary to the main WR upgrade on our roster, whether through the draft or FA. That's all I am sayin'. Or else we are going to have to endure another season of "FIRE SPORANO" & "WE NEED WRs!" threads.


Unfortunately, this is what I think will happen. And to be honest, it scares the **** out of me. If we spend another 2-3 round pick on a receiver who can't even see the field all year, muchless get a reception, I will be sick.

Once a big time receiver has identified himself to the world as a big time receiver, it becomes almost impossible to acquire him. That's the bottom line. You can't criticize the staff for not going out and somehow stealing Larry Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson when they're not free agents and trading for him would probably require three 1st round picks. You can't criticize them for not going out and getting Brandon Marshall or Vincent Jackson if neither of them even makes it to market. You can't criticize them for not getting Anquan Boldin if the Cardinals still want an arm and a leg for a 30 year old player with a history of injuries and one year left on his contract. Hell if you want that, Antonio Bryant is a 28 year old player with a history of injuries and he has no years left on his contract, we don't need to give up a draft pick to get him.

And Ginn has made an impressive catch or two. Even the Seattle catch though was not really an impressive catch so much as it was impressive how the ball snuck right through the outstretched hands of two defenders and into Ginn's hands. He didn't go up and GET the ball. He stuck out his hands and waited for it to come to him. And if the defenders had knocked the ball away and/or intercepted? We'd have been criticizing Ginn for not helping his QB by coming to the ball.

Antonio Bryant makes catches like that EVERY WEEK. He's had Byron Leftwich, Josh Johnson and Josh Freeman throwing to him, and he still has more yards per game than any receiver on our team. He's averaging 17.6 yards per catch over there. And you know what? In 2008, with the crap that was throwing the ball for Tampa Bay, he averaged 78 yards per game that year to Anquan Boldin's 86 yards per game.

We have to be realistic about this. He's a very, very good player...and he's the only thing likely to be available.

Premier wide receivers in this league are usually grown, not acquired. If we're going to have one next year, he's probably either got to be already on this roster (Hartline?) or be someone we draft. In the meantime you could do a LOT worse than grabbing a 29 year old Antonio Bryant who has a lot of experience in this league, is in his prime, and will finally be playing with a QB that is worth his salt.

ckparrothead
12-09-2009, 12:35 PM
Here are some facts for you...

Antonio Bryant 2008-2009: 110 catches, 1724 yards (15.7 ypc), 10 TDs
Anquan Boldin 2008-2009: 152 catches, 1801 yards (11.8 ypc), 15 TDs

Antonio Bryant QBs: Garcia, Griese, McCown, Leftwich, Johnson, Freeman
Anquan Boldin QBs: Warner, Leinart

Figure in the fact that Bryant will be a free agent and Boldin will not be...

Markcalius
12-09-2009, 12:45 PM
I'm not sure I see us going WR in the first round just as an availability of talent thing. I think Antonio Bryant will be a Dolphins next year and then they'll draft someone else later than the first round.

Assuming you are correct that they bring in one or two receivers in the offseason, which of the WRs on the roster now do you think would be the first to go?

Spesh
12-09-2009, 12:46 PM
Rough possible draft order/needs/arguement to be made:
1) Browns: Defense, took 2 receivers in the second round in 09.
2) Rams: QB/Oline/Defense/tactical nuke to clean house, just to many other glaring needs.
3) Bucs: Defense(especially the line), to many glaring needs on the Defense and will be in the running for Suh.
4) Lions: Oline/defense, another team in the running for Suh and have Johnson.
5) Chiefs: Defense/Oline, While unhappy with Bowe they have Chambers and other needs are more important.
6) Redskins: Oline/QB/Rb, already have decent receivers and took a handful a few years back.
7) Bills: Oline/Qb, have Lee Evans and such wideout isnt a big need at the moment.
8) Raiders: Divine Intervention, took Heyward-bey last year though have no way of knowing what Davis will do at any given moment.
9) Panthers(49'ers): possibly Qb/defensive help, with Morgan/Crabtree/Davis they look fine at wideout
10) 49'ers: same as above.
11) Bears(Broncos): D-line, have one of the best receiving cores in the league.
12) Texans: Oline/Corner/Safety, have Andre Johnson.
13) Seahawks: Oline/Dline/QB, grabbed TJ so set at wideout
14) Falcons: Defense, pro-bowl wideout and former first rounder on other side, not to mention hall of fame tight end, so set.
15) Jets: Defensive end/guard, Traded for Braylon.
16) Dolphins: and were up.

Just a rough draft, and am hurried this morning so couldnt look over schedules or to in depth in the teams needs, but it seems to me the only team that has a need at wideout(over other needs) that might pick before us is the Ravens. Most of the teams that im completely sure are going to pick before us have either taken a wideout recently or have other glaring holes in the team.

So baring teams trading down, or a Al Davis/Matt Millen style pick, i dont see why people automatically assume playmakers at Wideout will be off the board.

ckparrothead
12-09-2009, 12:57 PM
Assuming you are correct that they bring in one or two receivers in the offseason, which of the WRs on the roster now do you think would be the first to go?

I think you bring them all to training camp and give them a fair shot at making the roster. If Turner can't outplay Camarillo or Ginn in camp, why keep him around?

You can keep six receivers if they're worth it and you have enough of them that are good on STs.

72champagne
12-09-2009, 01:10 PM
There's no way in hell we don't draft defense in the first round and most likely the second round too.

DOC33
12-09-2009, 01:14 PM
Bryant and Parcells have history, I dont think it will happen. Second tier guys like Floyd and Breaston might be our only option and they would not be bad options. I think with either one of those two we could be considered a poor mans New Orleans WR group where they have no true number one but pick and choose based on who they are playing. Floyd for example would be our Colston, Ginn=Henderson, Bess=Lance Moore, Hartline=Mecham etc. not exactly the same but the same idea.

Dr. Phin
12-09-2009, 01:21 PM
I'm not sure but I don't think Miami will be picking high enough to get any of those 3 players. I also wouldn't see them taking CJ Spiller even if he was on the board. IMO they're either taking a WR, DT, or MLB in the first round, if they do anything else I'd be shocked.

WR doesn't normally go that high; unless they are something really special. Crabtree was it last year...there was no reason that Heyward-Bey should have gone so early...except, Al Davis is a moron.

Also, Bryant didn't play half the season because of the suspension. That will drop him down because he missed the big games. Golden Tate is good, but I don't think he is Crabtree good...I wouldn't expect to see him go until late first or early second.

Spiller will go in the middle of the first IMO.

SQuinn17
12-09-2009, 01:34 PM
Did you see Brandon Spikes in the game versus a "real" team with a real running back? (Alabama in comparison to all the schools florida played this year!). He made no plays at all and he was on the ground more times than i can remember! i pray to god we don't draft him..the guys no where near as good as his reputation and did i mention how slow he is! The best player on florida's D, is Joe hayden! the guy performs regardless of the competition unlike Spikes who only seems to show-up versus FIU!
LOL how bout the 11 tackles and 3 sacks he had against LSU this year? Get a clue!

houtz
12-09-2009, 01:57 PM
Malcolm Floyd is interesting but IMO Antonio Bryant is a better wr. You mention the history with parcells but what many fail to understand is it is all water under the bridge. I read an article that parcells is constantly relaying messages to Bryant telling him how well he's doing etc.. You can't tell me he's not favored to come home to Miami and play for a team with the tuna in charge.

Breaston is a restricted free agent so that's very unlikely. That and the fact that Arizona will most likely deal boldin before breaston makes it unlikely.

Hixon is an interesting player we may look at especially if we let ginn go. He's a better wr and can make plays in special teams.

ckparrothead
12-09-2009, 02:20 PM
Bryant and Parcells have history, I dont think it will happen.

As per many reports, they've kissed and made up to the point where Parcells has been sending him encouraging text messages through intermediaries telling him to "keep it up" and whatnot.

DolfanDuBbZ~
12-09-2009, 02:24 PM
Not a fan of Tate's. He's a converted RB to WR, and I don't think this offense has the time for a converted RB to learn NFL routes. Plus he is the same size as Ginn if I'm correct. 5'11 190 or so....

Nawledge
12-09-2009, 02:31 PM
I dont see us drafting a WR in the first but i would be very happy with McClain at LB or Eric Berry at safety in the 1st. If one of these guys are available youve got to get them. I doubt either of them will even be available when we pick though.

i think Bryant will be a Dolphin next year, im not sayin its the best thing ever but he is an upgrade over what we've got as of now but i wouldnt mind either Dez Bryant or Tate if we wind up gettin one of these in the draft.

i dont really know that much about the receivers in this coming years draft, what are some of the other top names of guys coming out this year?

ckparrothead
12-09-2009, 02:33 PM
I don't think those are very good reasons not to like Tate, personally. The guy has been working as a WR in a pro style system for a few years now and he runs routes pretty well. He needs a little refinement in some of them, but he has good body control and sells his fakes. As for the size thing, I can see a criticism of the size, however I don't think you should bring up Ginn's name unless you actually have seen Tate play and if you've seen Tate play you wouldn't bring up Ginn's name at all. He is infinitely more physical than Ted Ginn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA5bpJU2eJQ

Fast forward to about 1:40 in that video. Do you EVER imagine Ted Ginn absorbing a kill shot from Taylor Mays, staying on his feet while Mays hits the turf in a daze?

You don't have to answer that question. It's rhetorical.

DolfanDuBbZ~
12-09-2009, 02:59 PM
I don't think those are very good reasons not to like Tate, personally. The guy has been working as a WR in a pro style system for a few years now and he runs routes pretty well. He needs a little refinement in some of them, but he has good body control and sells his fakes. As for the size thing, I can see a criticism of the size, however I don't think you should bring up Ginn's name unless you actually have seen Tate play and if you've seen Tate play you wouldn't bring up Ginn's name at all. He is infinitely more physical than Ted Ginn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA5bpJU2eJQ

Fast forward to about 1:40 in that video. Do you EVER imagine Ted Ginn absorbing a kill shot from Taylor Mays, staying on his feet while Mays hits the turf in a daze?

You don't have to answer that question. It's rhetorical.

Still a small WR isn't what MIA needs. His size is a concern since MIA has more than enough of the same type of WR.
And the only comparison to Ginn if any, was dealing w/ his size.

houtz
12-09-2009, 03:11 PM
The whole size issue is way overrated if you ask me. You keep saying we already have wrs that are Tate's size. What you're not getting is we don't have a playmaker like Tate. ginn may be the same size but you will never see him make those plays. Ever. If he could we wouldn't be looking to get a wr now would we?

Our need at wr isn't about size its about having a wr that can make plays. Both Tate and Bryant can make plays.

DolfanDuBbZ~
12-09-2009, 03:14 PM
The whole size issue is way overrated if you ask me. You keep saying we already have wrs that are Tate's size. What you're not getting is we don't have a playmaker like Tate. ginn may be the same size but you will never see him make those plays. Ever. If he could we wouldn't be looking to get a wr now would we?

Our need at wr isn't about size its about having a wr that can make plays. Both Tate and Bryant can make plays.

Sorry but I think MIA needs some one over 6' at WR or a better pass catching TE. MIA can't continue to get into the redzone and not have a legit big man down there imo.
And Ginn was a playmaker at OSU. Sorry just not a fan of Tate's. Rather go w/ Dez and his skill set.

Size is overrated? I guess having targets like Colston, Moss, Marshall and so on is over rated. MIA would do better in the long run imo getting someone bigger and more polished, and Dez is that man IMO. But its all relative...cause he won't be around when MIA picks.

ckparrothead
12-09-2009, 03:16 PM
Still a small WR isn't what MIA needs. His size is a concern since MIA has more than enough of the same type of WR.
And the only comparison to Ginn if any, was dealing w/ his size.

And I'm saying it's not in any way a helpful comparison regardless of size.

DolfanDuBbZ~
12-09-2009, 03:17 PM
And I'm saying it's not in any way a helpful comparison regardless of size.


I guess.

I just don't see MIA needing another sub 6ft WR, its that simple. And Tate's size and the few years he has run as WR are a concern. If MIA were to use a 1st on WR, I would hope it would be for someone w/ a NFL body and a polished skill set, Dez is that WR.

ckparrothead
12-09-2009, 03:19 PM
The whole size issue is way overrated if you ask me. You keep saying we already have wrs that are Tate's size. What you're not getting is we don't have a playmaker like Tate. ginn may be the same size but you will never see him make those plays. Ever. If he could we wouldn't be looking to get a wr now would we?

Our need at wr isn't about size its about having a wr that can make plays. Both Tate and Bryant can make plays.

Comparing Tate with Ginn because of size is about as useful as comparing Tate with Ernest Wilford because of skin color.

Lorenzo Rules
12-09-2009, 03:32 PM
let me add if Bryant is available two spots ahead of us I can see us trading up up to get Bryant and beleive me he is worth it .
another option would be to trade for boldin and then make a big push for as many linebackers and dts as we cant get .
I know Adarus Bowman has played well and is staying out of trouble I might be inclined to gamble on him if orther options are not possible.

Why do I like Bowman ? my reasons is that none of you realize how great of a blocker he is downfield and a great special teams player as well.

houtz
12-09-2009, 03:43 PM
I would love to get dez Bryant but I just don't see him being there when we pick.

Antonio Bryant will be our best and cheapest bet.

finz99
12-09-2009, 03:43 PM
Sorry but I think MIA needs some one over 6' at WR or a better pass catching TE. MIA can't continue to get into the redzone and not have a legit big man down there imo.
And Ginn was a playmaker at OSU. Sorry just not a fan of Tate's. Rather go w/ Dez and his skill set.

Size is overrated? I guess having targets like Colston, Moss, Marshall and so on is over rated. MIA would do better in the long run imo getting someone bigger and more polished, and Dez is that man IMO. But its all relative...cause he won't be around when MIA picks.

Here's a list of very good number 1 recievers (or previous number 1 recievers on teams) that are 6' or shorter:

Greg Jennings
Santonio Holmes
Steve Smith
Roddy White
Hines Ward
Desean Jackson
Reggie Wayne
Donald Driver
Torry Holt
Laveranues Cole


Anquan Boldin is 6'1.

I guessing having these guys as number 1 recievers are overrated right?

People don't realize that while they may be small some of them also have insane jumping abilities, speed and body control, which can take away any advantage the defense has because of size. Also, they usually are going up against corners that are relatively the same size.

Size is becoming overrated at the wide reciever position. I'm not saying it isn't nice to have a WR that is 6'5, but at the same time, don't write off a guy because he's considered "short" in your eyes.

** Also of note: Ted Ginn's vertical jump was supposedly around 27''. You have to take into context a full wide recievers skill set, not their size.

DolphinFanMan
12-09-2009, 03:55 PM
Not to distract from the 2 WR's in question, but someone who has been quietly having a monster year is Danario Alexander from Missouri. He could be had in later rounds and has shown this year tons of play making ability. Could be something to consider if they draft defense in the early rounds.

jvw
12-09-2009, 03:57 PM
I hope we go OLB with the first pick then ILB and if there is a stud TE available in the 3rd round get him.

DolfanDuBbZ~
12-09-2009, 04:01 PM
Here's a list of very good number 1 recievers (or previous number 1 recievers on teams) that are 6' or shorter:

Greg Jennings
Santonio Holmes
Steve Smith
Roddy White
Hines Ward
Desean Jackson
Reggie Wayne
Donald Driver

Anquan Boldin is 6'1.

I guessing having these guys as number 1 recievers are overrated right?

People don't realize that while they may be small some of them also have insane jumping abilities, speed and body control, which can take away any advantage the defense has because of size. Also, they usually are going up against corners that are relatively the same size.

Size is becoming overrated at the wide reciever position. I'm not saying it isn't nice to have a WR that is 6'5, but at the same time, don't write off a guy because he's considered "short" in your eyes.

** Also of note: Ted Ginn's vertical jump was supposedly around 27''. You have to take into context a full wide recievers skill set, not their size.

Where did I say having said guys was over rated? Where did I say having short WR's was over rated? What I did say was in response to another post that the likes of Moss, Marshal, Colston and so on must be over rated, since size is over rated. Something you just put in this post.


5'11 190 isn't what I see MIA needing. Its that simple. And I said... sub 6ft...meaning smaller than 6ft.
MIA has a abundance of 'short' guys. I just believe MIA needs a big body that can catch the ball. With Fasano waiting until week 11 to show up and disappearing quite abit last year, MIA needs a big body some where on offense to catch the ball.

finz99
12-09-2009, 04:32 PM
Where did I say having said guys was over rated? Where did I say having short WR's was over rated? What I did say was in response to another post that the likes of Moss, Marshal, Colston and so on must be over rated, since size is over rated. Something you just put in this post.


5'11 190 isn't what I see MIA needing. Its that simple. And I said... sub 6ft...meaning smaller than 6ft.
MIA has a abundance of 'short' guys. I just believe MIA needs a big body that can catch the ball. With Fasano waiting until week 11 to show up and disappearing quite abit last year, MIA needs a big body some where on offense to catch the ball.

You stated OVER 6 ft. Go back and look. I even quoted what you wrote.

But why do we need a WR over 6ft? If the player plays tall, then why does it matter? Steve Smith and Roddy White play like their 6'3. They may be short, but they use their body to catch the ball and they come down with it. I think it's more important we get a big pass-catching tight end in the draft.

MarinoEqualsGod
12-09-2009, 04:36 PM
Last I heard Illinois was trying to get Benn to stay. They just offered his brother a scholarship in hopes that Benn would stay for his senior year.

If Benn's not there the WRs in the draft will be slim pickings. Unless we can find that star in the later rounds.

IMO we get a WR in Free Agency or trade. Antonio Bryant or Anquan Boldin is my guess. If we want Brandon Marshall we'd have to pray to god they reach a CBA agreement otherwise he's going to cost a 1st and a 3rd. Same can be said for Vincent Jackson.

Miles Austin is also another player that the Cowboys will most likely resign.

There's a few WRs in Free Agency that would be worth taking a look at that don't jump out at you. Jason Avant has the size and build to be a good WR. Is he #1 WR material? I'm not sure.

Then there's Braylon "I make great catches but drop easy ones" Edwards, he's another interesting Free Agent because he has the big play ability that we lack so much. But he's just to inconsistent. I could really see him being in Miami considering we went out and tried to "trade " for him or according to Schefter we listened to offers for him.

I just don't see us getting a WR in Free Agent and then drafting one early in the draft. Unless there's a player there that you can't pass up I think it'd be a late to mid round pick. I just can't see the Front Office having a ton of WRs at the start of the season next year.

Hartline, Bess, Turner, and Camarillo are most likely all safe. Camarillo could be part of a trade but really what would any team give up for him?

Then there is Ginn. Although he isn't worth his steep contract he could go either way. Miami might keep him because he has the speed and could really benefit from having a true #1 WR.

I guess Turner could be cut but you never know.

So if we don't cut anyone other then Ginn we'd already have 4 WRs on the roster. Perhaps we could get a Free Agent WR and then have a rookie WR battle it out with Turner for that #5 spot?

Who knows. All I know is unless you're going after Bryant, Tate, Benn or possibly Lafell there aren't to many names that jump out and grab you. I'd love to have Tate because he reminds me a lot of a Steve Smith/Desean Jackson Hybrid I just don't see us picking that high to get him.

We'll see.

Benn is NOT staying. My nephew lives in Champaign and a couple days ago was at Kinkos when he saw Benn shipping all his belongings back home to D.C. Illinois may want him to stay, but with Juice graduating and Jacob Charest taking over next year (who is a horrible QB by the way) and Zook not getting it done this year, I think it's about a 99% probability that Benn enters the draft.

I would LOVE to see Benn in a Dolphin uniform. He's just the physical type of receiver the Fins need. At the end of the half on Saturday, he simply took the ball away from the defender for a 60 yard touchdown reception. That's what we need - someone that will go up and challenge for the ball every time. And the dude's a physical speciman too.

ckparrothead
12-09-2009, 04:46 PM
Well needless to say when you keep shrinking the guy every time you talk about him it looks like you just have a vendetta and you're not really approaching the question fairly. He's listed at 5'11" and 195 pounds on NFL Draft Scout. He might be heavier than that.

Either way his build isn't an issue. He's got a build and style eerily similar to Steve Smith. With some time in a pro weight room I swear their mothers wouldn't even be able to tell them apart.

Someone brought up his being a converted running back. What you don't realize is that NFL scouts look for that because they like guys that can run after the catch. Guys that can run really well after the catch often have a history at the running back position somewhere in high school or college.

He's basically a more physical Davone Bess with 4.4 speed. He needs some refinement in his route running, I agree with the one poster who brought up that he tends not to sink his hips that well in his breaks.

DolfanDuBbZ~
12-09-2009, 04:51 PM
You stated OVER 6 ft. Go back and look. I even quoted what you wrote.

But why do we need a WR over 6ft? If the player plays tall, then why does it matter? Steve Smith and Roddy White play like their 6'3. They may be short, but they use their body to catch the ball and they come down with it. I think it's more important we get a big pass-catching tight end in the draft.

Yes I stated I wanted a bigger WR. Original statement was MIA doesn't need another sub 6ft WR. Then I got told by several posters that size was over rated. meh...

And I said the need was because MIA needs a big body in the red zone. Fasano isn't that guy. He took 10weeks to show up this year, while last year he disappeared games at a time.

And you can pick out the likes of SS or White, but they aren't the norm. They are special in alot of different ways. Is Tate special? Where as you might think he is, I don't. I rather go for the more polished NFL ready WR in Dez. And if MIA couldn't get him, then eventually look at a TE in the later rounds.

Again Tate being a WR for only a few years is a red flag to me. Its the same stuff I'm hearing about Sean Smith right now playing CB. He needs time to adjust and develop at the NFL level. I rather not here that about another 1st round WR.

DolfanDuBbZ~
12-09-2009, 04:54 PM
Well needless to say when you keep shrinking the guy every time you talk about him it looks like you just have a vendetta and you're not really approaching the question fairly. He's listed at 5'11" and 195 pounds on NFL Draft Scout. He might be heavier than that.

Either way his build isn't an issue. He's got a build and style eerily similar to Steve Smith. With some time in a pro weight room I swear their mothers wouldn't even be able to tell them apart.

Someone brought up his being a converted running back. What you don't realize is that NFL scouts look for that because they like guys that can run after the catch. Guys that can run really well after the catch often have a history at the running back position somewhere in high school or college.

He's basically a more physical Davone Bess with 4.4 speed. He needs some refinement in his route running, I agree with the one poster who brought up that he tends not to sink his hips that well in his breaks.

Is that what you open up with seriously? I gave my reasons, you just don't like them. I dont' have any vendetta against a player who goes to a school I don't much like or care to watch. I sit through some of their games due to my brother. But I could really careless about Tate.
I have seen plenty of Bryant in person and on TV to understand the type of athlete he is. I have said I rather get the bigger more polished WR. The more experienced WR. The more complete WR, imo.

MadDog 88
12-09-2009, 05:08 PM
IMO A. Bryant will most likely be the one to wind up in Miami; however, I would not be at all surprised to see them make a run at Braylon Edwards as an addition or different option then Bryant. It makes sense in that you're taking him from a division opponent, he has a history with Henne and quite frankly, he is better then any receiver we have on the roster. Additionally, the Trifecta entertained offers for him in the off season so you can assume there is an interest. We all know the history of the drops but it does not preclude the fact that he would be a huge upgrade because he has big play ability.

That said, I doubt if he winds up in Miami. The Jets will throw a ton of money at him to stay there.

BobDole
12-09-2009, 05:33 PM
This is exactly what I am hoping for, if we can get an experienced WR, problem #1 is fixed, get a good I-LB in the draft to put next to Crowder (Yes Crowder), the inside becomes better, but we will still need to fix the NT problem, can't continue to hope Furgie will be there much longer.

absolutely. drafting a receiver in the first round is just too risky this time around - we'd have too much riding on it. and ILB's that are ideal for the 3-4 like spikes and mcclain don't come around very often - you have to snatch them up when you can. there is a DRAMATIC drop after those 2 - and we need that position filled in a bad way. move crowder over and have one of those guys take his job and let him roam free like wants to - problem solved.

NT is an interesting one for me. dan williams is probably my favorite of the bunch - but he might very well end up in the first round by the time april rolls around. like cody and odrick as well - and would nab either one in the 2nd round with no questions asked. but we might end up pulling a typical parcells move and draft someone like cam thomas or udofia late. that position has the biggest 'who the hell knows what we're gonna do' stamp on it IMO.

SR 7
12-09-2009, 05:34 PM
Last I heard Illinois was trying to get Benn to stay. They just offered his brother a scholarship in hopes that Benn would stay for his senior year.

If Benn's not there the WRs in the draft will be slim pickings. Unless we can find that star in the later rounds.

IMO we get a WR in Free Agency or trade. Antonio Bryant or Anquan Boldin is my guess. If we want Brandon Marshall we'd have to pray to god they reach a CBA agreement otherwise he's going to cost a 1st and a 3rd. Same can be said for Vincent Jackson.

Miles Austin is also another player that the Cowboys will most likely resign.

There's a few WRs in Free Agency that would be worth taking a look at that don't jump out at you. Jason Avant has the size and build to be a good WR. Is he #1 WR material? I'm not sure.

Then there's Braylon "I make great catches but drop easy ones" Edwards, he's another interesting Free Agent because he has the big play ability that we lack so much. But he's just to inconsistent. I could really see him being in Miami considering we went out and tried to "trade " for him or according to Schefter we listened to offers for him.

I just don't see us getting a WR in Free Agent and then drafting one early in the draft. Unless there's a player there that you can't pass up I think it'd be a late to mid round pick. I just can't see the Front Office having a ton of WRs at the start of the season next year.

Hartline, Bess, Turner, and Camarillo are most likely all safe. Camarillo could be part of a trade but really what would any team give up for him?

Then there is Ginn. Although he isn't worth his steep contract he could go either way. Miami might keep him because he has the speed and could really benefit from having a true #1 WR.

I guess Turner could be cut but you never know.

So if we don't cut anyone other then Ginn we'd already have 4 WRs on the roster. Perhaps we could get a Free Agent WR and then have a rookie WR battle it out with Turner for that #5 spot?

Who knows. All I know is unless you're going after Bryant, Tate, Benn or possibly Lafell there aren't to many names that jump out and grab you. I'd love to have Tate because he reminds me a lot of a Steve Smith/Desean Jackson Hybrid I just don't see us picking that high to get him.

We'll see.

We will most LIKELY sign Bryant as a FA and draft a WR in round 2-4 again.

I'd go ILB round 1 or OLB, then ILB or OLB round 2, (if we get a WR in FA) then WR round 2 or switch it up and go WR round 2 and OLB round 3.

23EmilioVasquez
12-09-2009, 05:58 PM
if this upcoming draft is to the WR position what the last draft was to the CB postion would be amazing

last year I was prying for Vontae but many people on this board were saying no way we get him and it was understandable if he was not there when we picked

freak athlete
playmaker
hard hitter
and a true Football player

so I was crossing my fingers hoping that this kid from Utah that was 6'3 would last until we picked 44th overall in the second
but it would have been more than okay with him if we picked him in the first

on draft day
I was super surprised to see Davis on the board when we were picking
But I thought there is no way Parcells passes on Malaluga
then to my surprise we picked Vontae Davis (i was very happy but sad cause I was positive Malaluga would be a Patriot even happier when they traded down kinda)

then with the 44th I was hoping Malaluga would be there but to late and we picked Pat White booooo
I understood why they tried that but ive said it once and ill say it again for the opposing D to respect the pass out of the wildcat
we need a RB that can throw at a decent level not a QB that can run at a decent level

then with the later second pick we took to my amazement another CB with Sean Smith which was a great pick

now if Dez slips to us in the 1st and Tate is there in the 2nd (even though we could use a LB either ILB or OLB depending who is the best on the board) I would be okay with take WR back to back if its
Bryant and Tate

but It wont happen

Spesh
12-09-2009, 06:51 PM
now if Dez slips to us in the 1st and Tate is there in the 2nd (even though we could use a LB either ILB or OLB depending who is the best on the board) I would be okay with take WR back to back if its
Bryant and Tate

but It wont happen

As i posted earlier, i dont see why not. Unless we make a deep playoff run, were in a great spot this year for those hopeful for a wideout, the majority of the teams picking in front of us either already have established wideout, picked one in recent drafts, or have such huge and glaring needs they will burn the pick on another position.

Michael Crabtree fell partial because his injured foot prevented him from running the 40. Why is it improbable that Bryant will fall because he has been suspended and other teams simply dont need wideouts?

houtz
12-09-2009, 08:06 PM
As i posted earlier, i dont see why not. Unless we make a deep playoff run, were in a great spot this year for those hopeful for a wideout, the majority of the teams picking in front of us either already have established wideout, picked one in recent drafts, or have such huge and glaring needs they will burn the pick on another position.

Michael Crabtree fell partial because his injured foot prevented him from running the 40. Why is it improbable that Bryant will fall because he has been suspended and other teams simply dont need wideouts?

I don't know.

Some could argue that the Jets could use Bryant. I'm not sure what exactly happens with Bryant. I know if there's no new CBA that Brown becomes a RFA. Does the same apply for Edwards even tho he was traded to the Jets? If so he'll probably stay a Jet. If not, he'll hit FA and then the Jets will have a glaring hole at WR.

Bryant would be a Jet then IMO. You never know because anything could happen but that's how I'd see it panning out. No way we finish behind the Jets.

With all this said if Dez is there with our First you get him.

hooshoops
12-09-2009, 09:27 PM
dez bryant all the way...but he'll never be there when we pick

golden tate doesn't look like a 4.4 guy to me on tape...i see him in the 4.5's but i think he's a heck of a player and would be a very solid 2nd round selection and i think he's much tougher than his measurables might seem to indicate

i feel confident saying he'll be a difference maker in the pros...but dez bryant is a whole nother level for me...

#1dolphinsfan
12-10-2009, 12:46 AM
i think if we had a chance at both dez bryant and golden tate in the first round i would go with dez bryant he seems like he could turn into on of the best WRs in the nfl

jim1
12-10-2009, 08:01 AM
absolutely. drafting a receiver in the first round is just too risky this time around - we'd have too much riding on it. and ILB's that are ideal for the 3-4 like spikes and mcclain don't come around very often - you have to snatch them up when you can. there is a DRAMATIC drop after those 2 - and we need that position filled in a bad way. move crowder over and have one of those guys take his job and let him roam free like wants to - problem solved.

NT is an interesting one for me. dan williams is probably my favorite of the bunch - but he might very well end up in the first round by the time april rolls around. like cody and odrick as well - and would nab either one in the 2nd round with no questions asked. but we might end up pulling a typical parcells move and draft someone like cam thomas or udofia late. that position has the biggest 'who the hell knows what we're gonna do' stamp on it IMO.

I've had a thing for Benn for some time now. Personally I'd consider taking him in the 1st, but I could also see this scenario:

round 1: NT Dan Williams. Problem solved. Yeah, I could also see Spikes or McClain here, more so McClain though. I could still see Spikes slipping to the 2nd rd.

round 2: Benn. Dolphins trade 4th rd pick to move up in the 2nd and grab him. But if we took him in the 1st, that's ok by me.

round 3: ILB Sean Lee

FA- Antonio Bryant. Works for me, we'll see what other WRs we have a shot at getting.

RobertHorry
12-10-2009, 11:47 AM
Well needless to say when you keep shrinking the guy every time you talk about him it looks like you just have a vendetta and you're not really approaching the question fairly. He's listed at 5'11" and 195 pounds on NFL Draft Scout. He might be heavier than that.

Either way his build isn't an issue. He's got a build and style eerily similar to Steve Smith. With some time in a pro weight room I swear their mothers wouldn't even be able to tell them apart.

Someone brought up his being a converted running back. What you don't realize is that NFL scouts look for that because they like guys that can run after the catch. Guys that can run really well after the catch often have a history at the running back position somewhere in high school or college.

He's basically a more physical Davone Bess with 4.4 speed. He needs some refinement in his route running, I agree with the one poster who brought up that he tends not to sink his hips that well in his breaks.


Yeah that was me about the hips. I really like Tate but the lack of showing his ability to sink his hips worries me. I look into that as one of the fundamental aspects needed by a wide out. Outside of his route running and hips there aren't many flaws. He loves attacking the ball when its in the air, which is great.

ckparrothead
12-10-2009, 02:42 PM
Honestly, not sinking his hips isn't why he wouldn't be successful at the NFL level though...so I can't knock him too much for it.

hooshoops
12-10-2009, 02:46 PM
i've read some reports that dan williams has short arms...any concerns

i also like the idea of packaging our 2nd and a 4th to move up in the 2nd round to get benn...or better yet maybe our 2nd and ted ginn...i'd do it

ckparrothead
12-10-2009, 03:47 PM
The guy that Jeff Ireland is in love with, Marvin Austin, has short arms. But at 6'3" and 294 pounds he ran a 4.69 in high school before he even came to college...so I doubt Jeff is concerned about that.

Dan Williams I wouldn't be concerned with it either.

And by the way, Arrelious Benn and Marvin Austin are buds.

houtz
12-10-2009, 03:59 PM
Benn and vontae are very close to from what I heard. Benn would be nice.

hooshoops
12-10-2009, 04:21 PM
i don't see how marvin austin would be a fit for us...

Quadfather
12-11-2009, 12:04 AM
id really like jermaine gresham. a big pass catching te would open up our offense. then we could sign antonio bryant. I think we will sign casey hampton or vince wilfork to fill the nose tackle spot.

3rdandinches
12-11-2009, 12:45 AM
I really want a vet WR (Bryant) and a vet NT (Hampton, Watson, Pickett, Wilfork, Franklin any one would do!), but adding G.Tate would be a wonderful move. He's gonna be one of these instant impact receivers that Henne will love to throw to.

ckparrothead
12-11-2009, 01:33 AM
i don't see how marvin austin would be a fit for us...

That's the guy that Jeff Ireland was in love with, when you were talking to him at Champions.

Austin was a five star recruit out of Washington DC, literally the highest recruited defensive player in all of high school. Not only was he a big time player on his high school defense, 80+ tackles with 12 for loss, 8 sacks and 5 forced fumbles his junior year, but he showed up to the Elite College Combine at 6'3" and 294 pounds, ran a 4.69 in the 40. Maybe the best part is personality wise he was very mature for his age and well adjusted, balanced.

I remember taking a look at Austin when he was a freshman at UNC. I was looking for guys on that UNC defense to spot out as they were down here in Tampa playing USF at home. I didn't really like Kentwan Balmer. I liked Deunta Williams a little bit. But this kid with the enormous butt, Marvin Austin really took me. I was pointing him out to my girlfriend and her parents. They ask me sometimes who the next great players will be on teams because they know I generally get them right. I told them Austin is the prototype, for his bubble, his quick movement, he was strong and powerful, feisty as all hell with a really high motor. He made like five tackles in that game with one for loss, as a part time player.

Since then, he's tracked and gotten even better. He's filled out some. This guy is an all day sucker, you had better bring your lunch pail and recognize that you're going to have a tough day against him. He is powerful, he's got GREAT bubble and thighs the size of tree trunks. He works hard. He still has a thoughtful, balanced personality.

When you break down his game, what you have to have is a vision for his growth as a player. That's a big key when you're talking about 21 year old kids. His body type leaves all kinds of room for him to get heavier, except right now he has 4.70 speed and it shows up on the field when he recognizes screens and chases down the runner from the backside. He generally does two things, when not tired, that avail him well. He keeps fighting with his hands and he keeps his legs churning. He's tough to deal with in pass protection with a double team, let alone a single team. In the run game when he has the responsibility of staying at home, he fights really well, can get his pad level low, and maintain his position, even against doubles. He knocks offensive linemen to the ground. He has the mobility to chase the stretch toward the sidelines, which is the one thing that Paul Soliai really lacks right now.

The one thing that I think he lacks is long arms. That's not important for a NT, really. In fact, it's probably why his best position would be NT in this defense as opposed to DE. What he needs to get better at is making sure he gets the ball carrier to the ground when he gets a clean shot at him, and he does get a clean shot at a lot of ball carriers.

This kid is special and he's 20 years old, will be 21 in January. He will grow a lot in the coming years. He wasn't the highest recruited defensive player in the nation for nothing and he has done absolutely nothing to embarrass himself since joining UNC.

You had mentioned before when you first recounted what Ireland told you, that he really liked a kid from North Carolina. You assumed he meant Cam Thomas, I'm guessing because Cam is like 325 pounds...but no I know for a fact that if he likes a lineman from North Carolina, it's Marvin Austin.

hooshoops
12-11-2009, 11:38 AM
that's interesting ck but how do you know for a fact it's austin??? i see a darnell dockett like player when i look at austin...

hooshoops
12-11-2009, 11:56 AM
i meant to tell you also ck that ireland was very high on gresham at te...very high

when i asked about aaron hernandez said "i don't know if he's a fit for us"

ckparrothead
12-11-2009, 12:21 PM
i meant to tell you also ck that ireland was very high on gresham at te...very high

when i asked about aaron hernandez said "i don't know if he's a fit for us"

I could see them being interested in Gresham and we've had several indications from sources that they are indeed high on him so that's good validation. Hernandez is not a guy I would accuse of being an on-the-line type of Tight End so I guess I could see them not being interested if they've decided that the only type of Tight End worth taking that high is a guy that can play on the line.

Knowing Jeff Ireland's style, Marvin Austin is the only guy he could have been talking about. When I look at Austin's body type I see a potential nose tackle because he's got all that junk in the trunk with those huge thighs, arms are a little bit short to be playing defensive end. He's very strong and he hand fights very well. He's one of those guys with so much power and athletic ability that he could probably do whatever you want him to do and that's a good canvass to work from. He likes being double teamed by 340 pounders. Coming out of high school that's why he said he wanted to be a DT instead of moving to some other position that might utilize his 4.69 speed better.

zach8111
12-11-2009, 12:50 PM
Funny thing is, i have heard form guys who watch college ball (i do not) that the WR depth in the draft this year is supposedly very good. I can only hope this is true, as we need a big #1 WR with speed.
but the elite #1 prospects are slim. I think Bryant, Tate, Benn all are elite prospects (they would obviously have to live up to it though) and possibly USC WR williams (but i dont know much about him

houtz
12-11-2009, 01:26 PM
What are your thoughts on the receiver from Syracuse? mike Williams I believe. On paper he looks like he has all the tools. Should be a mid round pick. Just curious.

jim1
12-11-2009, 01:36 PM
but the elite #1 prospects are slim. I think Bryant, Tate, Benn all are elite prospects (they would obviously have to live up to it though) and possibly USC WR williams (but i dont know much about him

I'd have to go Bryant, Benn and then Tate, with Tate a somewhat distant third. I seem to have more of an opinion than most that Benn can be special, but Bryant- the size, hands, agression, production- everything but straight line speed. I'd have to go there. But if Bryant was gone and Benn was sitting there and we passed on him (assuming DT Dan Williams is gone) - I'd probably be a little disappointed. As much as I like Benn, it's tough to get a read on whether he'll be a 1st or 2nd round pick. As with most things, opinions seem to vary.

hooshoops
12-11-2009, 02:08 PM
ok ck...3 names

put them in order of preference as nose tackle prospects...and your current round value for each

dan williams
terrence cody
marvin austin

anybody else have thoughts as well???

ckparrothead
12-11-2009, 04:02 PM
ok ck...3 names

put them in order of preference as nose tackle prospects...and your current round value for each

dan williams
terrence cody
marvin austin

anybody else have thoughts as well???

Man that is REALLY tough...we're still so early in this process.

Right now...I reserve the right to change my mind...

Marvin Austin (R1)
Dan Williams (R1)
Terrence Cody (R2)

My reasoning is thus: Marvin Austin has a more consistent history of being a stunner than Dan Williams. Dan Williams is beastly, no doubt about it. But, Austin was a beast right out of high school, never did no wrong at the college level, and has ridiculous athletic potential...so that's a little more consistency than Dan Williams has enjoyed. Terrence Cody is still too fat for my tastes, I'm not sure this staff will ever accept his being so grossly overweight, and when I settled down to really LOOK for whether he wore down considerably in the fourth quarter...I found that he absolutely does. In fact, at times in the fourth quarter, he looks nothing like he did in the first. Hard work can cure that, but is a fat guy who likes being fat willing to put in the necessary work to do the job?

BTW, Jared Odrick should go on the list and I'm not sure but I would be tempted to put him at the top of it.

Dan2Duper
12-11-2009, 04:14 PM
Still a small WR isn't what MIA needs. His size is a concern since MIA has more than enough of the same type of WR.
And the only comparison to Ginn if any, was dealing w/ his size.
Tate can jump out of the gym, he high points the ball as well as any college receiver I've seen recently.

houtz
12-11-2009, 08:29 PM
Odrick and I went to High School together :thumbsup:

#1dolphinsfan
12-12-2009, 03:13 AM
but the elite #1 prospects are slim. I think Bryant, Tate, Benn all are elite prospects (they would obviously have to live up to it though) and possibly USC WR williams (but i dont know much about him
i dont know if i would want to take a chance of Williams in the first round maybe second if he is still there

#1dolphinsfan
12-12-2009, 03:14 AM
What are your thoughts on the receiver from Syracuse? mike Williams I believe. On paper he looks like he has all the tools. Should be a mid round pick. Just curious.
the guy has first round talent he probably would have went in the second round of this years draft if he didnt drop out of school but i wouldnt mind seeing him in miami if we could get him in the 3rd or 4th round