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Farmer
12-15-2009, 01:49 PM
Its insiders article but all the favorites (mcclain, spikes, bryant) are already gone, picking 21st

Golden Tate (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=25744&draftyear=2010)*, WR, Notre Dame
Tate is a bit of a reach this high, but the Dolphins are in desperate need of a playmaker at wide receiver and he's the next-best one this class has to offer behind Bryant.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/insider/news/story?id=4730972

dolfan91
12-15-2009, 03:30 PM
BP will never reach

skipp2myloo13
12-15-2009, 03:36 PM
At 21 Tate very well could be BPA. Especially if they feel they can get a good backer later. Tate would be a helluva pick at 21.

RealDriscoll
12-15-2009, 04:11 PM
Keep an eye on Dan Williams, NT out of Tennessee.

Clipse
12-15-2009, 08:15 PM
Won't happen. Parcells thankfully isn't the type to reach. I'll take Jerry Hughes please.

houtz
12-15-2009, 08:17 PM
Not sure why people are calling it a reach. Tate is easily the second best WR in the draft. He's a late first round pick. If we pick at #21 could you see anyone else to take? I couldn't.

I like the pick. I like it a lot.

SR 7
12-15-2009, 08:35 PM
Golden Tate isn't much of a reach at 21.

I'd actually love to get Bryant in FA and Tate. That would be an insane #1 adn 2 along wiht Bess, Hartline, Ginn, and Cam to fill out the 3/4/5 spot. Can you imagine the numbers Henne and this offense will put up with R.Brown and Ricky as well?

If I am the F.O. I'd drop cash on Bryant, Daniels/Sheffler and if I can Dansby then go 2 OLBs, 1 CB, 1 WR, 1 NT, and 1 ILB in the draft.

THis will 100% allow you to select BPA also filling needs at the same time.

skipp2myloo13
12-15-2009, 08:55 PM
Golden Tate isn't much of a reach at 21.

I'd actually love to get Bryant in FA and Tate. That would be an insane #1 adn 2 along wiht Bess, Hartline, Ginn, and Cam to fill out the 3/4/5 spot. Can you imagine the numbers Henne and this offense will put up with R.Brown and Ricky as well?

If I am the F.O. I'd drop cash on Bryant, Daniels/Sheffler and if I can Dansby then go 2 OLBs, 1 CB, 1 WR, 1 NT, and 1 ILB in the draft.

THis will 100% allow you to select BPA also filling needs at the same time.

Thats a point and a half right there. Bryant could be a pro bowler cornerstone, but he isn't a no miss number 1. Bryant as the 1 along with Hartline, Cam and Tate mixing it up as the 2 with Bess as the 3 would be a great O for a long time. Tate does everything Ginn can do on ST, so we can cut Ginn lose.

hooshoops
12-15-2009, 09:22 PM
Not sure why people are calling it a reach. Tate is easily the second best WR in the draft. He's a late first round pick. If we pick at #21 could you see anyone else to take? I couldn't.

I like the pick. I like it a lot.

i'd take benn if we're talking the 2nd best wr for us...but i have a high 2nd round grade on tate

i just like what others have said that we could scheme to take advantage of benns skill set easier and i agree

Ozfin77
12-15-2009, 10:41 PM
I'd take Jerry Hughes over Tate and address WR via FA and the 2nd or 3rd Round.

utahphinsfan
12-15-2009, 10:59 PM
Hughes or Sergio Kindle if McClain is off the board.

houtz
12-15-2009, 11:22 PM
I'd rather focus on other positions in Free Agency and go after Tate or Benn if we get the chance. Tate is going to be a stud. A lot like Desean Jackson. I think we can all agree we could use someone like that in Miami.

newlownorder
12-15-2009, 11:32 PM
I'm fine with Tate. He shows all the traits that make up a great WR.

There are a ton of LB's in FA this year worth getting. For the love of everything that is good, sign one of them! Take Tate with 1st rounder. That's a good start.

Kdawg954
12-16-2009, 02:10 AM
ugh, I don't like the pick . . . . we need to go defense, defense, defense.

HurriPhin
12-16-2009, 02:37 AM
I'm with Kdawg954 here. We need some beef up front, especially in the middle. Either NT or MLB.

BigNastyDB13
12-16-2009, 04:38 AM
Bill Parcells won't reach? How do you guys explain the Pat White pick then? We ALL knew that was a reach when it happened and he's been worthless this year. I'd prefer Hughes over Tate. This team needs youth on defense and particularly LB bad.

Ricky4Life
12-16-2009, 10:07 AM
Sign a free agent WR, and a free agent LB. And draft best available defensive player in the first, hopefully Hughes.

Quadfather
12-16-2009, 09:30 PM
look at parcells history, he doesnt take WR in round 1.

CedarPhin
12-16-2009, 09:42 PM
I think we'll take someone like Spikes or McClain if they fall to us in Round 1, then get a WR in Round 2.

ChadHenne
12-16-2009, 10:08 PM
I think if Dez Bryant and Rolando McClain are gone, first thing the Fins will do is try to trade down.

If they cannot do that, I actually believe that Tate would be the pick. They missed out on Nicks last year (who I really wanted), this year they probably need to get a true #1 to help a young QB like Henne, and Tate is a playmaker.

finfan54
12-19-2009, 09:09 AM
Hughes or Sergio Kindle if McClain is off the board.

I tend to go with this.

finfan54
12-19-2009, 09:10 AM
I think if Dez Bryant and Rolando McClain are gone, first thing the Fins will do is try to trade down.

If they cannot do that, I actually believe that Tate would be the pick. They missed out on Nicks last year (who I really wanted), this year they probably need to get a true #1 to help a young QB like Henne, and Tate is a playmaker.

We didnt miss out on anything. They were going Davis and Smith all the way.

finfan54
12-19-2009, 09:13 AM
Bill Parcells won't reach? How do you guys explain the Pat White pick then? We ALL knew that was a reach when it happened and he's been worthless this year. I'd prefer Hughes over Tate. This team needs youth on defense and particularly LB bad.


I dont think anyone should write off Pat White. This regime has an MO of sticking to their guys and changing up the offense from week to week. They tend to think that if they wait another offseason where most rookies dont produce much, particularly if your in a "specialist" position, then things start to happen.

obviously, if PW goes blank next year, then they will move on.

j-off-her-doll
12-20-2009, 01:38 AM
First post back:

I hate Tate in the 1st. I think he's a good #2. You'd don't draft #2's in the 1st, and you don't draft #2's when all you have is #2 and #3 WR's. If we don't land the big-time FA, look for us to draft A. Benn, B. Lafell, or Denario Alexander in the 2nd or 3rd.

McClain and D. Bryant will be long gone by the time we draft.

I don't like S. Kindle as a 3-4 OLB. He's athletic, and he moves well laterally, but he doesn't penetrate well. Opinions seem to differ in regard to Brandon Graham - some have him drafted in the top 10; this mock doesn't have him in the 1st. Either way, I think he's the very best SSOLB in the draft (Hughes would be 2nd). In my time off, I posted a brief analysis of Kindle, Sapp, Hughes, and Graham (will probably post it sometime):


So, I've spent the last few hours studying up on the top OLB prospects. In no particular order:

Ricky Sapp

Brandon Graham

Sergio Kindle

Jerry Hughes

. . .

I've been considering who would fit best in our system; who has the most physical talent; and who was most productive in college.

Right away, rule out Sapp. He's small for a WSOLB; he's tiny for SSOLB. Also, look at his production last season: 13 tackles for loss and 5 sacks. He played 4 games against ranked opponents and 9 against unranked teams. Against ranked opponents he had 3.5 tackles for loss (about on pace with his non-ranked numbers), but he only had 1 sack in the games he played against ranked teams. He's fast, but he's undersized, and his production doesn't jump out at all.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/player/147/1000767/tackleforloss/split.html

http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/player/147/1000767/sack/split.html

. . .

Then, there's Sergio Kindle - the highest rated player in the bunch, according to Todd McShay. Kindle has decent size at 255, but you'd want him to add about 10 lbs to play SSOLB. Watching tape on him, he's plenty athletic, but he doesn't seem to know how to penetrate. Most of his plays come from running the ball down - as opposed to beating his blocker for quick penetration. Looking at his production: 12.5 tackles for loss, 3.5 sacks. Those sack numbers right away are no better than pathetic for a 3-4 OLB projected to be a 1st RD pick. More concerning: 11.5 of his 12.5 tackles for loss came against unranked teams. Granted, he only played two ranked teams, but he only managed 1 tackle for loss in those two games. He also had no sacks against ranked competition. I'll pass.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/player/703/1003760/tackleforloss/split.html

http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/player/703/1003760/sack/split.html

. . .

Jerry Hughes is more my speed. He weighs in at 257 - not huge, but getting there, and he plays with the kind of explosion you want from 1st or 2nd RD prospect. His stats: 15 tackles for loss, 11.5 sacks (that's more like it). Like Kindle, he only played against 2 ranked teams, but he was more productive in those games. Against ranked competition, he totaled 3.5 tackles for loss and 2.5 sacks (only one less sack than Kindle had on the entire season). Also, his consistency is a bonus he had at least one tackle for loss and one sack in each of his games against ranked competition.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/player/698/1007635/tackleforloss/split.html

http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/player/698/1007635/sack/split.html

. . .

Getting to my favorite: Brandon Graham. He's the biggest at 263, and he plays with real explosion, and once he gets the edge, he's getting to the QB - or RB. I posted a couple of his highlight clips on another thread. He's also the only true SSOLB I see in the bunch. To the stats: 25 tackles for loss (10 more than the next player here), 9.5 sacks. Here's what I love: He played 4 times against ranked teams and 8 times against unranked teams. In those 4 games against ranked teams, he had 15 (!!!) tackles for loss and 5.5 sacks. He comes up big against the best. I fear that he won't be there when we draft, but if he is, I think he might be our guy.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/player/418/1002051/tackleforloss/split.html

http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/player/418/1002051/sack/split.html



(Note: you can also check out each players game log stats on cfbstats.com)

http://www.thephinsider.com/2009/12/19/1208898/brief-overview-of-olb-prospects

SR 7
12-20-2009, 02:03 AM
I think we'll take someone like Spikes or McClain if they fall to us in Round 1, then get a WR in Round 2.

Mccalin spikes wont last till where we are now.
I think we go Gresham round 1 where we are right now spot wise. He wiill prob last until end of round 1 so I see him as our 1st pick.

Markcalius
12-21-2009, 01:59 PM
I personally think if we can land one of the good safeties coming out in free agency, our offseason will be a success.

After that, take the best TE, ILB, or NT that falls to us in the first round.

jim1
12-21-2009, 02:44 PM
look at parcells history, he doesnt take WR in round 1.

Tell that to Mark Ingram and Terry Glenn. I know the back story of Glenn, but he worked out fine nonetheless.

j-off-her-doll
12-21-2009, 03:09 PM
If we do draft a WR in the 1st, it had better damn well be A. Benn.

ChambersWI
12-21-2009, 04:31 PM
First post back:

I hate Tate in the 1st. I think he's a good #2. You'd don't draft #2's in the 1st, and you don't draft #2's when all you have is #2 and #3 WR's. If we don't land the big-time FA, look for us to draft A. Benn, B. Lafell, or Denario Alexander in the 2nd or 3rd.

McClain and D. Bryant will be long gone by the time we draft.

I don't like S. Kindle as a 3-4 OLB. He's athletic, and he moves well laterally, but he doesn't penetrate well. Opinions seem to differ in regard to Brandon Graham - some have him drafted in the top 10; this mock doesn't have him in the 1st. Either way, I think he's the very best SSOLB in the draft (Hughes would be 2nd). In my time off, I posted a brief analysis of Kindle, Sapp, Hughes, and Graham (will probably post it sometime):



http://www.thephinsider.com/2009/12/19/1208898/brief-overview-of-olb-prospects

the thing with Graham is people think he's too small to be a full time OLB similar to LaMar Woodley. Graham is listed at 6'2 but is probably a little shorter than that, but you can't deny his production.

Kindle was great as a rush LB as a junior, but struggled A LOT this year as a DE.

j-off-her-doll
12-21-2009, 04:37 PM
the thing with Graham is people think he's too small to be a full time OLB similar to LaMar Woodley. Graham is listed at 6'2 but is probably a little shorter than that, but you can't deny his production.

Kindle was great as a rush LB as a junior, but struggled A LOT this year as a DE.

He reminds me a lot of Woodley. Also, he's the strongest of the OLB prospects, and he would be a GREAT SSOLB. I see Hughes as either WSOLB or SSOLB. I wouldn't mind drafting Hughes in the 1st and Graham in the 2nd - knowing how the FO likes to draft in pairs. Then, Micah Johnson could be there for us in the 3rd.

hooshoops
12-21-2009, 04:42 PM
i think after watching hughes tape he's more a weakside only guy...but i think he's the best pure pass rusher of the bunch and maybe the draft

i'll tell you what though...pull the utah tcu game tape from this season and hughes was a one man wrecking crew...a monster

i like brandon graham also and he reminds me of woodley as well at solb but i agree with others who say graham is listed at 6 ft 2 and i'll be shocked if he measures out at much more than just over 6 ft at the combine...which i think will hurt him with our front office...but he play with great leverage and power

i also think graham and hughes are both first round grades

TedSlimmJr
12-21-2009, 04:54 PM
I'm extremely high on Brandon Graham....I've watched his matchup with Bryan Bulaga several times and Graham destroyed him...

Much like Antoino Coleman...I'm not convinced Graham isn't best suited as a 4-3 defensive end....but this certainly bears keeping a close eye on when these guys are asked to perform in linebacker drills..

Kindle is easily one of my top "transition" guys....he's not a polished pass rusher....but he's adept at playing the run and it's almost impossible to get the outside on him...

Kindle will make a pretty seamless transition to OLB in a 3-4 defense IMO....he's experienced playing in a 2-point stance since he played LB in a 4-3 last year.....he could use some work rushing the passer with his hand on the ground...

Jerry Hughes = Stud OLB....the top prospect IMO of all the guys expected to make the transition from DE to OLB in the NFL...

hooshoops
12-21-2009, 05:47 PM
here's a question i have...

what are peoples views on cameron wake developing into the long term successor to joey porter on the weakside??? it would be nice if we could see him take some reps in these last 2 games on the weakside to see how he looks...i know he's stiff in his pass drop and doesn't show great awareness in pass coverage but i'd like to see him some more...and to see him vs the run

the reason i ask is if he is only viewed long term as the situational pass rusher lined up as an end with his hand on the ground jerry hughes is a guy i think we all should be looking at very hard as the weakside backer for the next decade...

thoughts???

does anyone have any word on how the regime views him long term or are we pretty much seeing what he'll always be already???

TedSlimmJr
12-21-2009, 05:55 PM
here's a question i have...

what are peoples views on cameron wake developing into the long term successor to joey porter on the weakside??? it would be nice if we could see him take some reps in these last 2 games on the weakside to see how he looks...i know he's stiff in his pass drop and doesn't show great awareness in pass coverage but i'd like to see him some more...and to see him vs the run

the reason i ask is if he is only viewed long term as the situational pass rusher lined up as an end with his hand on the ground jerry hughes is a guy i think we all should be looking at very hard as the weakside backer for the next decade...

thoughts???

does anyone have any word on how the regime views him long term or are we pretty much seeing what he'll always be already???


I don't know if they view him as the eventual long term replacement on the weakside....but I think they certainly view him as a guy that can flat out get after the quarterback in certain packages...

Personally, I think his long term role is as a backup pass rusher....a guy you need on your team...

He also earns his playing time IMO (unlike some)..seems like he's always the first guy down on special teams and making tackles....especially yesterday...

hooshoops
12-21-2009, 05:58 PM
I don't know if they view him as the eventual long term replacement on the weakside....but I think they certainly view him as a guy that can flat out get after the quarterback in certain packages...

Personally, I think his long term role is as a backup pass rusher....a guy you need on your team...

He also earns his playing time IMO (unlike some)..seems like he's always the first guy down on special teams and making tackles....especially yesterday...

well then jerry hughes needs to be a dolphin...period...if he's available

BobDole
12-21-2009, 06:10 PM
here's a question i have...

what are peoples views on cameron wake developing into the long term successor to joey porter on the weakside??? it would be nice if we could see him take some reps in these last 2 games on the weakside to see how he looks...i know he's stiff in his pass drop and doesn't show great awareness in pass coverage but i'd like to see him some more...and to see him vs the run

the reason i ask is if he is only viewed long term as the situational pass rusher lined up as an end with his hand on the ground jerry hughes is a guy i think we all should be looking at very hard as the weakside backer for the next decade...

thoughts???

does anyone have any word on how the regime views him long term or are we pretty much seeing what he'll always be already???


i think wake has tons of potential. we won't know how he'll do against the run or in coverage until we let him do it - which we should - and soon. it's hard to say one way or the other when he only comes in on passing downs to rush the quarterback.

porter is pretty damn one dimensional - awful against the run and mediocre in coverage. but he's out there starting b/c he's a threat to get to the QB every time - well at least he used to be - or is when healthy. i think wake is at least that good - he is an absolutely incredible blitzer - and he's still extremely raw. nowhere to go but up. i think he'll be starting for us real soon.

i don't like the possible 3-4 OLB's this draft. not at all. hughes is basically the only one i have any confidence in. i kind of like norwood and lang - but they still have question marks to me. there were SO many last year that i wanted - and have done great so far this year. there's a few deep positions on D every year - last year was OLB. the year before was CB. this year will be either S or DT. not saying none of the OLB's will be any good - just that the pickins are slim.

hooshoops
12-21-2009, 06:16 PM
i saw wake in the preseason do some coverage drop reps and he looked lost...but it was all new to him so it's hard to say how he'll be...he looked a little stiff to me also

imo porter has got to go...i think he's pretty much done...for my eyes most of his pressures and sacks this year have come from either inside pressure forcing the qb to him...coverage sacks..coming completely unblocked or wake forcing the qb up inside where porter can make the play...i just don't see any explosion off the snap and too many times he's just doing a dance with the tackle...

i watched some stuff on brandon lang and i wasn't impressed...i think he loses the ball too much and while strong doesn't always play that way...i saw one 4th down short yardage play where he was completely blown like 5 yards off the ball and i want to say it was by a te...

ckparrothead
12-21-2009, 06:22 PM
I think Joey Porter only drops into coverage on like 15% of pass reps, so the coverage thing is a little overblown to me when it comes to Wake.

I like Dexter Davis as a LB in this system, potentially a SOLB.

jim1
12-21-2009, 06:23 PM
the thing with Graham is people think he's too small to be a full time OLB similar to LaMar Woodley. Graham is listed at 6'2 but is probably a little shorter than that, but you can't deny his production.

Kindle was great as a rush LB as a junior, but struggled A LOT this year as a DE.

I don't think that Woodley is much taller than Graham, if at all.

BobDole
12-21-2009, 06:24 PM
i saw wake in the preseason do some coverage drop reps and he looked lost...but it was all new to him so it's hard to say how he'll be...he looked a little stiff to me also

imo porter has got to go...i think he's pretty much done...for my eyes most of his pressures and sacks this year have come from either inside pressure forcing the qb to him...coverage sacks.. or wake forcing the qb up inside where porter can make the play...i just don't see any explosion off the snap and too many times he's just doing a dance with the tackle...

i watched some stuff on brandon lang and i wasn't impressed...i think he loses the ball too much and while strong doesn't always play that way...i saw one 4th down short yardage play where he was completely blown like 5 yards off the ball and i want to say it was by a te...


porter is done. way done. but that's okay b/c with probably around 10 sacks at the end of the year he'll still have trade value. someone will give us a 3rd or 4th for him. i was just using that comparison b/c wake is at least as good as porter - who is starting for us right now. why not wake? i think wake would easily have double digit sacks if was starting/had more playing time.

yeah, the OLB's this year are weak. i don't even know if i could come up with a top 5 list this year - that's how bad i think they are. hughes will be a stud ... but that may be about it. looking back at last year - with the likes of sintim, english, cushing, matthews, orakpo. kruger, barwin, etc. - this year ain't even close.

hooshoops
12-21-2009, 06:24 PM
I think Joey Porter only drops into coverage on like 15% of pass reps, so the coverage thing is a little overblown to me when it comes to Wake.

I like Dexter Davis as a LB in this system, potentially a SOLB.

but the issue is wake never takes any stand up pass rush reps...everything is with his hands in the dirt...and while that may be the way his is most effective right now it's hard to get a read as to whether or not he can be effective standing up...

i agree the pass coverage concerns are somewhat overblown

hooshoops
12-21-2009, 06:28 PM
I don't think that Woodley is much taller than Graham, if at all.

what is woodley..as in his height at the combine??? was he a legit 6 ft 2???

even so i don't think this front office would have ever picked up a james harrison to play olb in a 3-4 no matter what due to that 5 ft 11 inches or so tall he is

hooshoops
12-21-2009, 06:31 PM
i also don't think we'll get squat for porter in trade in the offseason...but that's just me

as slimm pointed out to me i can see us getting something along a 3rd rounder for a philip merling if we decided to part with him...

BobDole
12-21-2009, 06:39 PM
with how trendy the 3-4 has become of late - and how weak this draft will be for 3-4 OLB's - i think we'll get something decent for him. some FO will see his 10ish sacks this year - and his 17 last year - and will be pony up a 3rd or 4th for him.

parting with merling so soon would be astronomically stupid IMO. he's young, talented, and provides excellent depth on the line. trying to get a 3rd for him after using a 2nd on him only 2 years ago is just dumb. it's not like he's been a disappointment - and he's the only guy i'd trust to start if langford or starks went down. for a team that rotates so heavily - i just don't see that as a possibility.

j-off-her-doll
12-21-2009, 07:34 PM
I was just checking out nfldraftdog.com, and they have thee staff 1st RD mocks. One of them had us taking a DT/DE from Syracuse - pretty dumb.

But of the other two, one had us drafting Jerry Hughes, and the other had us drafting Brandon Graham. Interesting stuff.

ArmyFin7
12-21-2009, 07:42 PM
Elvis Dummerville....isn't he sub 6'??

TedSlimmJr
12-21-2009, 07:51 PM
Elvis Dummerville....isn't he sub 6'??


Yep..which is a huge reason he was a 4th round pick.....

..and Woodley was a 2nd round pick.....I believe Woodley measured in under 6'1" at the combine...

Which is why I don't neccessarily understand the thought process behind leaving guys completely off your draft board based on height...as Parcells does..

What sense does it make to pass up on players like Eric Norwood who is CLEARLY an absolute stud defensive player when you watch him on film in favor of a handful of guys like Bobby Carpenter and/or Vernon Gholston, for example.... just because they're taller...

I understand not wanting to sacrifice height....but not at the expense of sacrificing talent...

BobDole
12-21-2009, 08:06 PM
Yep..which is a huge reason he was a 4th round pick.....

..and Woodley was a 2nd round pick.....I believe Woodley measured in under 6'1" at the combine...

Which is why I don't neccessarily understand the thought process behind leaving guys completely off your draft board based on height...as Parcells does..

What sense does it make to pass up on players like Eric Norwood who is CLEARLY an absolute stud defensive player when you watch him on film in favor of a handful of guys like Bobby Carpenter and/or Vernon Gholston, for example.... just because they're taller...

I understand not wanting to sacrifice height....but not at the expense of sacrificing talent...

totally agree with that train of thought. writing someone off b/c they don't meet your height demands confuses the hell out of me. and norwood is my 2nd favorite OLB of the bunch - but that's not saying a whole lot.

j-off-her-doll
12-21-2009, 08:09 PM
totally agree with that train of thought. writing someone off b/c they don't meet your height demands confuses the hell out of me. and norwood is my 2nd favorite OLB of the bunch - but that's not saying a whole lot.

Norwood would be my 3rd or 4th favorite. I think Kindle is a better overall player, but Norwood is much better at penetrating. So, I could go either way. Also, Kindle will go much earlier in the draft, so Norwood will be cheaper.

hooshoops
12-21-2009, 08:13 PM
i agree with that as well regarding talent should trump guys not meeting some requirements...but that's this front office's thing...i know it's parcells

BobDole
12-21-2009, 08:18 PM
Norwood would be my 3rd or 4th favorite. I think Kindle is a better overall player, but Norwood is much better at penetrating. So, I could go either way. Also, Kindle will go much earlier in the draft, so Norwood will be cheaper.

kindle isn't bad. his lack of production this year scares me a little bit though. his only 3 sacks were against texas tech, utep, and UCF - not exactly offensive powerhouses. no way would i spend a first on him - and i'm even hesitant to use a 2nd on him - and he'll easily go in the first 2 rounds - probably the 1st. i personally want an ILB in the 1st and one of those pure cover safeties in the 2nd.

hooshoops
12-21-2009, 08:19 PM
i haven't seen much of kindle yet but i don't like his lack of production this year either...

j-off-her-doll
12-21-2009, 10:24 PM
kindle isn't bad. his lack of production this year scares me a little bit though. his only 3 sacks were against texas tech, utep, and UCF - not exactly offensive powerhouses. no way would i spend a first on him - and i'm even hesitant to use a 2nd on him - and he'll easily go in the first 2 rounds - probably the 1st. i personally want an ILB in the 1st and one of those pure cover safeties in the 2nd.

Looking at available players, Berry is the only FS I see worth drafting in the first 2 rounds, and he obviously won't be there. I think Clemons will be a good FS. Also, I'm just as high on Micah Johnson as I am on Spikes or McClain, and McClain won't be there when we draft in the 1st. Micah Johnson might not be there in the 3rd. We'll see. But, even in the 2nd, I think he's a better value than either Spikes or McClain in the 1st.

ckparrothead
12-22-2009, 01:18 AM
A couple of things.

1. Cameron Wake is a superb athlete with a lot of strength, balance and burst. If you take his hands out of the dirt and give him enough reps I'm sure he'd be fine. And you can always put his hand in the dirt on occasion even though he has literally the same exact responsibilities in the 3-4 that you would normally give Joey Porter.

2. Lamarr Woodley showed up at the Combine 6 feet, 1.5 inches.

3. Demanding height in your outside linebackers is all about dominating the tight end and the quarterback. Height and wingspan combined with a player that naturally reads the quarterback's eyes is a deadly combination. A taller player is just a more imposing player. It's not ALWAYS right but no single draft strategy is always right or even obviously right. But this is the strategy Parcells has adhered to for a long time and he's built plenty of winners so...I'm not gonna call him a fool over it.

4. Nobody will trade us anything significant for Joey Porter in the off season, regardless of how popular the 3-4 has become. He's old, having a sub-par year and he's a very highly paid man. Bad combination.

5. Trading Phil Merling would not at all be "astronomically stupid" IMO...but, at the same time he's young, he can play in the rotation, relatively inexpensive, and he keeps his mouth shut. If we were to trade him, it would really have to be a thing where someone came with an offer we just couldn't refuse, like a first round pick or a high second rounder. Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense because what exactly does trading valuable young depth like him for an even younger player accomplish? I don't believe Merling will ever be a career starter for this team but I can't say as I'd be surprised if somehow it still ended up working out that way. He's got about as much chance of making that happen as a third round draft pick would. Not all of them pan out, look at Pat Turner (so far).

5. Not the biggest fan of Norwood, or Kindle.

BobDole
12-22-2009, 06:57 AM
as for points 4 and 5. i don't know what you're considering significant but i don't think getting a measly 4th - or maybe even 3rd - for someone with 25 sacks (probably more than seasons end) in the last 2 years is that far off. didn't we just get a 2nd and 6th rounder for a 33 year old taylor just a few years ago? how is wanting a 3rd or 4th for porter - who is 32 and at least as productive - that far off? i don't get your logic at all there Ck.

as for 5, i was saying getting rid of merling for a 3rd rounder was astronomically stupid. for a 1st? are you kidding me? send him on his way. i'm higher on merling than you are but you can't pass up value like that.

BobDole
12-22-2009, 07:20 AM
Looking at available players, Berry is the only FS I see worth drafting in the first 2 rounds, and he obviously won't be there. I think Clemons will be a good FS. Also, I'm just as high on Micah Johnson as I am on Spikes or McClain, and McClain won't be there when we draft in the 1st. Micah Johnson might not be there in the 3rd. We'll see. But, even in the 2nd, I think he's a better value than either Spikes or McClain in the 1st.

earl thomas is absolutely worth taking in the first 2 rounds. the guys got 8 picks this year and is phenomenal in coverage. he's the pure cover safety we've been missing. nate allen is pretty damn good in coverage as well - while a 2nd rounder may be too high - that's where he'll probably end up and i wouldn't be too upset. i like darrell stuckey a lot as well - who could be had in the 4th or 5th.

i like johnson too - but the drop off from mcclain and spikes to johnson is a ton. spikes and mcclain are head and shoulders above the rest of the pack. i don't know how anyone could think otherwise having watched them all play. johnson is one of 4 ILB's that i think could play in the 3-4 though. jamar chaney is the other one - but apparently we won't even look at him b/c of his height. so if we pass on spikes - i would be happy with johnson in the 3rd.

j-off-her-doll
12-22-2009, 10:55 AM
earl thomas is absolutely worth taking in the first 2 rounds. the guys got 8 picks this year and is phenomenal in coverage. he's the pure cover safety we've been missing. nate allen is pretty damn good in coverage as well - while a 2nd rounder may be too high - that's where he'll probably end up and i wouldn't be too upset. i like darrell stuckey a lot as well - who could be had in the 4th or 5th.

i like johnson too - but the drop off from mcclain and spikes to johnson is a ton. spikes and mcclain are head and shoulders above the rest of the pack. i don't know how anyone could think otherwise having watched them all play. johnson is one of 4 ILB's that i think could play in the 3-4 though. jamar chaney is the other one - but apparently we won't even look at him b/c of his height. so if we pass on spikes - i would be happy with johnson in the 3rd.

Johnson tackles better than McClain and Spikes. He's faster than Spikes. He's solid in coverage and makes big plays. And, he's a better athlete than either - though, not as big as McClain.

These are all observations based on a limited amount of footage on Johnson, but I think he's being sold short because the other players come from real "football schools."

ckparrothead
12-22-2009, 10:58 AM
as for points 4 and 5. i don't know what you're considering significant but i don't think getting a measly 4th - or maybe even 3rd - for someone with 25 sacks (probably more than seasons end) in the last 2 years is that far off.

It's very far off. That's just how the NFL works. They don't trade high picks for old players that are always battling knee injuries week-in and week-out, and have huge contracts due to a venture into free agency a few years ago.

Sorry, but the offers won't be coming in. High contracts kill these kinds of possibilities.


didn't we just get a 2nd and 6th rounder for a 33 year old taylor just a few years ago? how is wanting a 3rd or 4th for porter - who is 32 and at least as productive - that far off? i don't get your logic at all there Ck.

Taylor had battled no recent injuries to that point, and the Redskins ended up desperate due to injuries (and stupidity). Plus, Taylor was known as an ideal teammate, a leader, a guy that doesn't speak out or do things that frustrate the coaches, etc. He was coming off a better two-year stretch than Joey Porter, as well. His 2006 season was better than Porter's 2008 season, and his 2007 season was better than Porter's 2009 season. To that point in Jason's career, he'd just always been a fantastic player, too. On the other hand, Pittsburgh actually CUT Joey Porter because they thought he was old and not worth keeping around for a mere $5 million. Miami picked him up and immediately he went out and had a poor season. Then he had a great season and now he's hurt all the time and having another so-so year. For Jason Taylor, a so-so season would have been an anomaly. For Joey Porter, the GREAT season was the anomaly.

Go ahead and hold your breath waiting for an offer for Joey Porter. I'll be sure to call an ambulance for you.


as for 5, i was saying getting rid of merling for a 3rd rounder was astronomically stupid. for a 1st? are you kidding me? send him on his way. i'm higher on merling than you are but you can't pass up value like that.

I would also think about getting rid of him for a 2nd rounder or even a future 2nd rounder. A future 1st round be excellent. In fact if I were the front office I would start trading away present picks for future ones. Those future draft pick salaries should be cheaper, hence the picks are worth more.

ckparrothead
12-22-2009, 11:15 AM
earl thomas is absolutely worth taking in the first 2 rounds. the guys got 8 picks this year and is phenomenal in coverage. he's the pure cover safety we've been missing. nate allen is pretty damn good in coverage as well - while a 2nd rounder may be too high - that's where he'll probably end up and i wouldn't be too upset. i like darrell stuckey a lot as well - who could be had in the 4th or 5th.

i like johnson too - but the drop off from mcclain and spikes to johnson is a ton. spikes and mcclain are head and shoulders above the rest of the pack. i don't know how anyone could think otherwise having watched them all play. johnson is one of 4 ILB's that i think could play in the 3-4 though. jamar chaney is the other one - but apparently we won't even look at him b/c of his height. so if we pass on spikes - i would be happy with johnson in the 3rd.

Nate Allen is pretty damn inconsistent is what he is. I've been watching the guy in person at Ray Jay stadium for years.

BobDole
12-22-2009, 12:11 PM
It's very far off. That's just how the NFL works. They don't trade high picks for old players that are always battling knee injuries week-in and week-out, and have huge contracts due to a venture into free agency a few years ago.

Sorry, but the offers won't be coming in. High contracts kill these kinds of possibilities.



Taylor had battled no recent injuries to that point, and the Redskins ended up desperate due to injuries (and stupidity). Plus, Taylor was known as an ideal teammate, a leader, a guy that doesn't speak out or do things that frustrate the coaches, etc. He was coming off a better two-year stretch than Joey Porter, as well. His 2006 season was better than Porter's 2008 season, and his 2007 season was better than Porter's 2009 season. To that point in Jason's career, he'd just always been a fantastic player, too. On the other hand, Pittsburgh actually CUT Joey Porter because they thought he was old and not worth keeping around for a mere $5 million. Miami picked him up and immediately he went out and had a poor season. Then he had a great season and now he's hurt all the time and having another so-so year. For Jason Taylor, a so-so season would have been an anomaly. For Joey Porter, the GREAT season was the anomaly.

Go ahead and hold your breath waiting for an offer for Joey Porter. I'll be sure to call an ambulance for you.



I would also think about getting rid of him for a 2nd rounder or even a future 2nd rounder. A future 1st round be excellent. In fact if I were the front office I would start trading away present picks for future ones. Those future draft pick salaries should be cheaper, hence the picks are worth more.

fair enough. i don't see how at least one team wouldn't take a chance with joey for a 4th - crazier things have happened - but thanks for the explanation. go ahead and keep the ambulance on hold for me - for now. :lol:

i personally like merling and would want him to stay. i would love to get a 1st for him - and wouldn't necessarily be upset with parting with him for a 2nd - but losing value with him (a 3rd) would be dumb. that's all i was saying. i love how fluid his movement is - especially in his hips, his lateral movement, his agility, how he uses his hands, and how he's equally good against the run and pass - but that's just me.

BobDole
12-22-2009, 12:15 PM
Nate Allen is pretty damn inconsistent is what he is. I've been watching the guy in person at Ray Jay stadium for years.

i like him in coverage. that's what we need and i don't necessarily like any of the cover FS's coming out in FA this year. i place HUGE emphasis on that position this coming draft. it worries me how little playing time clemons is getting when wilson has clearly been terrible. and culver is a picture of inconsistency.

this draft also has a ton of talent at the safety position. i think we might very well luck out and have a chance in thomas in the 2nd. that would be ideal.

BobDole
12-22-2009, 12:28 PM
Johnson tackles better than McClain and Spikes. He's faster than Spikes. He's solid in coverage and makes big plays. And, he's a better athlete than either - though, not as big as McClain.

These are all observations based on a limited amount of footage on Johnson, but I think he's being sold short because the other players come from real "football schools."

don't get me wrong, i like johnson, but he doesn't compare to spikes or mcclain in any of those categories. the things that worries me about him is with the limited talent on that defense, johnson never jumped off the screen at me. even with the insane talent on defense at florida and alabama, spikes and mcclain flew out at me. both of them would consistently had those 'wow' factor plays.

i do like his consistency against the run and pass though. he seems very comfortable doing both. but he's not the best at getting to the quarterback and fighting through blocks - and having an ILB that can do that next year is extremely important IMO. he also lacks quite a bit of intensity when you compare him to a psycho like spikes.

ckparrothead
12-22-2009, 01:56 PM
i like him in coverage. that's what we need and i don't necessarily like any of the cover FS's coming out in FA this year. i place HUGE emphasis on that position this coming draft. it worries me how little playing time clemons is getting when wilson has clearly been terrible. and culver is a picture of inconsistency.

this draft also has a ton of talent at the safety position. i think we might very well luck out and have a chance in thomas in the 2nd. that would be ideal.

Gibril Wilson is the picture of inconsistency, not Tyrone Culver, if you ask me. I think Culver has been pretty consistent this year. He's another Yeremiah Bell, except back when Bell was a little younger.

The thing about drawing conclusions off Clemons' inactivity is, they paid Gibril Wilson a LOT of money. They're going to give him every opportunity to turn that light bulb on and finally start playing well within this system. They're not going to keep a $5 million a year player on a hair trigger. How long did it take before they finally cut ties with Ernest Wilford?

Honestly IMO Culver should be starting somewhere in this secondary.

ckparrothead
12-22-2009, 01:57 PM
These are all observations based on a limited amount of footage on Johnson, but I think he's being sold short because the other players come from real "football schools."

Kentucky is in the SEC. It doesn't get more "real football" than that.

Micah Johnson is being knocked because he's pretty slow.

BobDole
12-22-2009, 02:08 PM
Gibril Wilson is the picture of inconsistency, not Tyrone Culver, if you ask me. I think Culver has been pretty consistent this year. He's another Yeremiah Bell, except back when Bell was a little younger.

The thing about drawing conclusions off Clemons' inactivity is, they paid Gibril Wilson a LOT of money. They're going to give him every opportunity to turn that light bulb on and finally start playing well within this system. They're not going to keep a $5 million a year player on a hair trigger. How long did it take before they finally cut ties with Ernest Wilford?

Honestly IMO Culver should be starting somewhere in this secondary.

wilson ... don't even mention that name in my presence. i am so over giving him any more time for the light to turn on. the guys been playing FS in the NFL long enough - and it's not like he's in a complicated scheme - he just needs to be gone. the quicker the better. but i do agree he's still in there b/c of what he's making - which is not smart when you have a draft to think about and an unknown commodity on your roster.

you are much higher on culver than me. but i can always forgive his inconsistency due to his age and inexperience - much like i can with davis and smith.

ckparrothead
12-22-2009, 02:32 PM
I just don't know where this inconsistency label is coming from, is all I'm saying. He seems pretty consistent to me. None of his games really stand out from a coverage standpoint. Heck if you look at his PFF ratings from game to game, they're the model of consistency.

Perfect23
12-22-2009, 02:42 PM
who was the last offensive player Bill Parcells took in the first round thats why I dont think its going to happen

j-off-her-doll
12-22-2009, 03:18 PM
Kentucky is in the SEC. It doesn't get more "real football" than that.

Micah Johnson is being knocked because he's pretty slow.

Again, I've only seen limited footage, but he looks every bit as fast as Spikes. I don't know how he'll time out, but I see a good deal of strength and explosion when I watch him play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc7RoALOZfM

That doesn't look like a slow ILB - to me, anyway.

rev kev
12-22-2009, 03:57 PM
I'm with Kdawg954 here. We need some beef up front, especially in the middle. Either NT or MLB.

that makes three I'm with you... and KDAWG!!! :rimshot:

ckparrothead
12-22-2009, 04:11 PM
I didn't say the dude is a bad player, just not a fast one. Even in that highlight vid you can see several instances of his being outrun laterally. Usually for every highlight vid, there's plenty of lowlights not seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R07yQOIMCUM

That's what Anthony Dixon did to Micah Johnson and the Kentucky defense.

hooshoops
12-22-2009, 04:21 PM
i saw that kentucky miss st game also and from my view point micah johnson looked dinged up...in fact just about every game i've seen of his he was dinged up...

i'd like to get my hands on that 16 tackle performance of his vs tennessee though

i don't think culver is inconsistent at all...i like culver

regarding trading merling i talked it over with slimm and as he stated no way right now merlings beating out either langford or starks for a starting end role...he's essentially almost in the same boat as mcdaniels in that he's depth and more of a nickle pass rush guy and that mcdaniel could probably play nose in a pinch...

we have lionel dotson who we keep on this 53 and i have heard on numerous occasions how impressed the regime is with his pass rush skills so why not plug dotson into the end rotation and see what you can get for merling in trade???

we also have ryan baker who when i have got to see him in game reps has looked pretty solid...

simply stated i think we have excellent depth and talent at end why not try to shore up another position by trading a depth player who has value??? heck a 2nd rounder i say where do i sign right now...

we all know this draft is gonna be loaded with underclassmen coming out to avoid a possible rookie cap in the next cba so we could get a 2nd round talent like merling at a position of need in the 3rd round with a pick acquired for merling

TedSlimmJr
12-22-2009, 04:25 PM
Anthony Dixon is a straight up beast....I think there's 2 or 3 of us here that have no problem agreeing on that...

However, I mentioned previously how impressive Dixon's performance against Kentucy was to watch....but Micah Johnson was playing hurt...

He's been playing hurt virtually most of the season....and still accumulated 100 tackles...

Johnson's performance against Tennessee was probably his best all season....and he was playing hurt in that game too...

I think he compares favorably to Spikes...except you wont see Johnson over pursue as much and take himself out of the play...

j-off-her-doll
12-22-2009, 04:26 PM
I didn't say the dude is a bad player, just not a fast one. Even in that highlight vid you can see several instances of his being outrun laterally. Usually for every highlight vid, there's plenty of lowlights not seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R07yQOIMCUM

That's what Anthony Dixon did to Micah Johnson and the Kentucky defense.

I didn't mean to imply that you said he's bad. And, I know he's not a Pat Willis, but I don't think McClain or Spikes are either.

Would you rather draft a J. Hughes, A. Benn, D. Williams (etc.) in the 1st and Micah Johnson in the 2nd or 3rd, or Spikes in the 1st and an OLB, WR, or NT in the 2nd or 3rd? To me, it seems you get a better value going after Johnson - especially if he falls to the 3rd - and drafting Hughes in the 1st. I'm not saying that Johnson is better than McClain or Spikes - just that I don't see the drop off to be great enough to warrant drafting them a round or two earlier.

j-off-her-doll
12-22-2009, 04:27 PM
Also, in the highlight clip, O-linemen were consistently getting to the 2nd level, and Johnson did a good job on a couple of those clips in fighting them off and still making the tackle.

hooshoops
12-22-2009, 04:31 PM
the questions i and a couple others have had about earl thomas are his tackling...as in how sure of a tackler is he...cause we can't have another sean smith at free safety...lol

if thomas checks out fine as a tackler and i haven't watched much of him yet i would say from what i do know it's a grand larceny to get him in the mid 2nd...

j-off-her-doll
12-22-2009, 04:33 PM
A couple of things.

1. Cameron Wake is a superb athlete with a lot of strength, balance and burst. If you take his hands out of the dirt and give him enough reps I'm sure he'd be fine. And you can always put his hand in the dirt on occasion even though he has literally the same exact responsibilities in the 3-4 that you would normally give Joey Porter.

2. Lamarr Woodley showed up at the Combine 6 feet, 1.5 inches.

3. Demanding height in your outside linebackers is all about dominating the tight end and the quarterback. Height and wingspan combined with a player that naturally reads the quarterback's eyes is a deadly combination. A taller player is just a more imposing player. It's not ALWAYS right but no single draft strategy is always right or even obviously right. But this is the strategy Parcells has adhered to for a long time and he's built plenty of winners so...I'm not gonna call him a fool over it.

4. Nobody will trade us anything significant for Joey Porter in the off season, regardless of how popular the 3-4 has become. He's old, having a sub-par year and he's a very highly paid man. Bad combination.

5. Trading Phil Merling would not at all be "astronomically stupid" IMO...but, at the same time he's young, he can play in the rotation, relatively inexpensive, and he keeps his mouth shut. If we were to trade him, it would really have to be a thing where someone came with an offer we just couldn't refuse, like a first round pick or a high second rounder. Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense because what exactly does trading valuable young depth like him for an even younger player accomplish? I don't believe Merling will ever be a career starter for this team but I can't say as I'd be surprised if somehow it still ended up working out that way. He's got about as much chance of making that happen as a third round draft pick would. Not all of them pan out, look at Pat Turner (so far).

5. Not the biggest fan of Norwood, or Kindle.

Like many here, I love Wake. He's one of my very favorite players in the league. I'm confident he'll be our starting WSOLB next season. I'm worried that Hughes doesn't have the bulk to be a SSOLB, and that's kind of why I'm so high on Graham. If we can add a few pounds to Hughes, though, he does remind me of D. Ware. With those players [Hughes/Graham (know there's the height issue) and Wake] on the edge - assuming we get a decent DC - and some added help inside, I think our D will be well on its way.

ckparrothead
12-22-2009, 05:46 PM
I don't think you plug a Jerry Hughes in at SOLB, I'm with you on that one. He's a speed rusher, like Cameron Wake.

Personally I think the ILB position could get taken care of in free agency.

TedSlimmJr
12-22-2009, 06:38 PM
the questions i and a couple others have had about earl thomas are his tackling...as in how sure of a tackler is he...cause we can't have another sean smith at free safety...lol

if thomas checks out fine as a tackler and i haven't watched much of him yet i would say from what i do know it's a grand larceny to get him in the mid 2nd...

Earl Thomas is the closest thing to Eric Berry as you can get in terms of ball skills and coverage IMO....I mentioned that months ago in the Taylor Mays/Eric Berry thread...

In terms of open field tackling...he's terrific....but you don't want him mixing it up at the LOS trying to make tackles....he's a pure free safety...

His range, change of direction, burst, ball skills, and closing speed is truely rare.....he also lines up in the slot like a CB and covers slot receivers....

Thomas' 24 passes defended ranks first nationally....his 8 INT's ranks second nationally (also a Texas school record)....and his 2 INT returns for touchdowns is tied with only 7 other players....with one of those being over 90+ yards...

If he declares...he's the 2nd rated safety in the draft IMO....he's probably the best DB of the Mack Brown era at Texas....which is saying something...

He doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with Sean Smith as a tackler...

This is the perfect guy Miami needs at FS IMO.....and snagging him in the 2nd round is pure theft....all he needs is a little time to add a few more pounds to his frame...

BobDole
12-22-2009, 06:51 PM
Earl Thomas is the closest thing to Eric Berry as you can get in terms of ball skills and coverage IMO....I mentioned that months ago in the Taylor Mays/Eric Berry thread...

In terms of open field tackling...he's terrific....but you don't want him mixing it up at the LOS trying to make tackles....he's a pure free safety...

His range, change of direction, burst, ball skills, and closing speed is truely rare.....he also lines up in the slot like a CB and covers slot receivers....

Thomas' 24 passes defended ranks first nationally....his 8 INT's ranks second nationally (also a Texas school record)....and his 2 INT returns for touchdowns is tied with only 7 other players....with one of those being over 90+ yards...

If he declares...he's the 2nd rated safety in the draft IMO....he's probably the best DB of the Mack Brown era at Texas....which is saying something...

He doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with Sean Smith as a tackler...

This is the perfect guy Miami needs at FS IMO.....and snagging him in the 2nd round is pure theft....all he needs is a little time to add a few more pounds to his frame...

agreed on all accounts. he is the definition of pure cover safety. amazing instincts, hands, and ball skills. tracks it down and goes and gets it. and he still has massive room for improvement and growth due to the fact that he's only a sophomore - quite an impressive 20 year old if you ask me.

i had him in my early mock and man i hope he declares. i have a gut feeling that he'll be the 3rd safety taken - due to how some teams (raiders) will flip over mays' combine numbers. when was the last time 3 safeties went in the 1st round? safety is the least prioritized position on defense and i think there's a good chance of him falling into our lap. i am firm in wanting spikes/mcclain in the 1st and thomas in the 2nd.

TedSlimmJr
12-22-2009, 07:02 PM
Yeah I think teams prefer "sure things" at safety if they're going to use a 1st round pick on one.....and they prefer to use them on safety prospects with the prototype triangle numbers and sorts...blah blah..

Thomas is a better version of Brandon Merriweather IMO...and I suspect he'll come off the board somewhere in the range that Merriweather did (late 1st - early 2nd)...

He says he's 50-50 right now on declaring and wants to wait until after the championship game to make his decision...

I know one thing.....ol' Greggy and Julio better know where this kid is at ALL times because he can make you pay dearly for one little slip up...

hooshoops
12-22-2009, 07:47 PM
Earl Thomas is the closest thing to Eric Berry as you can get in terms of ball skills and coverage IMO....I mentioned that months ago in the Taylor Mays/Eric Berry thread...

In terms of open field tackling...he's terrific....but you don't want him mixing it up at the LOS trying to make tackles....he's a pure free safety...

His range, change of direction, burst, ball skills, and closing speed is truely rare.....he also lines up in the slot like a CB and covers slot receivers....

Thomas' 24 passes defended ranks first nationally....his 8 INT's ranks second nationally (also a Texas school record)....and his 2 INT returns for touchdowns is tied with only 7 other players....with one of those being over 90+ yards...

If he declares...he's the 2nd rated safety in the draft IMO....he's probably the best DB of the Mack Brown era at Texas....which is saying something...

He doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with Sean Smith as a tackler...

This is the perfect guy Miami needs at FS IMO.....and snagging him in the 2nd round is pure theft....all he needs is a little time to add a few more pounds to his frame...

lol...easy there slimm...i didn't say he was sean smith as a tackler...i just said that we couldn't afford another sean smith like tackler in our secondary at free safety