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SR 7
12-28-2009, 08:03 PM
lots of mixed opinions regarding Jerry Hughes...going from 11-20 down to early 2nd.

I saw him last year as a 1st round pick and still see him as a top 15 especially after the combine.

I think Miami goes with Hughes at our spot if we lose next week (assuming 11-13 spot) or McClain if he lasts.

#1dolphinsfan
12-28-2009, 09:22 PM
if both McClain and D. Bryant are gone i would like hughes

SR 7
12-28-2009, 09:43 PM
for me its McClain 1st then Hughes b/c i KNOW 100% that Bryant is going from 3 to 10.

hooshoops
12-28-2009, 11:09 PM
for me its McClain 1st then Hughes b/c i KNOW 100% that Bryant is going from 3 to 10.

i don't know how you can "know" that...you may think that but unless you have some inside knowledge of a teams draft board i don't know how you can know that

on talent though he sure warrants it imo

ckparrothead
12-28-2009, 11:17 PM
I like Hughes as a pass rusher but I have to say we already have a Hughes-like player in Cameron Wake. And this comes from someone that's studied a lot of tape on Hughes and Wake.

SR 7
12-28-2009, 11:22 PM
I like Hughes as a pass rusher but I have to say we already have a Hughes-like player in Cameron Wake. And this comes from someone that's studied a lot of tape on Hughes and Wake.

I heard the problem wiht Hughes if he gets locked up on a run play he is knocked out of play and can't unlock/disengage.

You think wake moves to WOLB cuz so far he hasn't been standing up once and I never saw Porter drop into coverage. Who would fit the SOLB role that can cover in this draftt?

hooshoops
12-28-2009, 11:23 PM
I like Hughes as a pass rusher but I have to say we already have a Hughes-like player in Cameron Wake. And this comes from someone that's studied a lot of tape on Hughes and Wake.

so you have absolute confidence ck that wake is our long term weakside backer???

and when wwill we get to see him in that role...cause i know that i'm REALLY looking forward to it...

hooshoops
12-28-2009, 11:28 PM
I heard the problem wiht Hughes if he gets locked up on a run play he is knocked out of play and can't unlock/disengage.

You think wake moves to WOLB cuz so far he hasn't been standing up once and I never saw Porter drop into coverage. Who would fit the SOLB role that can cover in this draftt?

i've watched a lot of hughes and i think for a weakside backer he plays the run well...about as well as a weakside guy does

Kdawg954
12-28-2009, 11:36 PM
I think Wake is going to be tremendous for us as our Jack LB. If the front office feels that way as well . . . I don't think we sniff Hughes . . . but its strikes me kind of funny when I still see Cam Wake as the 4th string WOLB on this team (miamidolphins.com depth chart).

Even still, I'm confident that either McClain or Spikes will be there when we select in round 1. I just think there are some names that still need to move up and will allow these LB'ers to drop a little.

SR 7
12-28-2009, 11:40 PM
I think Wake is going to be tremendous for us as our Jack LB. If the front office feels that way as well . . . I don't think we sniff Hughes . . . but its strikes me kind of funny when I still see Cam Wake as the 4th string WOLB on this team (miamidolphins.com depth chart).

Even still, I'm confident that either McClain or Spikes will be there when we select in round 1. I just think there are some names that still need to move up and will allow these LB'ers to drop a little.

U dont see us sniffing but have him 3rd on "miamis big board?"

I dont think miami sniffs Cody thats for sure.

Kdawg954
12-28-2009, 11:46 PM
U dont see us sniffing but have him 3rd on "miamis big board?"

I dont think miami sniffs Cody thats for sure.

I like the guy . . . but I have him third on my big board because I don't think the "guys in charge" feel Wake that much. I dunno, he clearly has gotten the most pressure from our LB's this season in his very limited role. They still list him 4th string on the website. He may just ALWAYS be a situational pass rusher . . . thats why Hughes is third on my board . . . they can easily select him and have Wake as his primary backup and 3rd down player.

If I felt 100% that they were sold on Wake, he would NOT be on my Big Board, because there is a ****load of OLB talent in rounds 2 and 3.

With Cody, obviously workouts and work ethic is the big thing with him . . . he has the body to be an elite NT in the NFL . . . does he have the drive tho? Personally, I think a 3-4 team is gonna fall in love with him and snatch him top 10. But he is NT, we need a NT . . . and he will be the best one available (tho Dan Williams looks good also).

hooshoops
12-28-2009, 11:50 PM
you talkin taking cody at #12??? hell no

my god

as far as wake goes i think we should fire paul p for his use of players this year...we need a new dc...and one that appreciates cam wake

more on the cody front this front office has had weight clauses with paul solai already...you think they're gonna take a guy who showed up at bama at almost 400 lbs and EVERYONE has weight concerns on with a top pick???

i sure as hell hope not

SR 7
12-28-2009, 11:51 PM
I like the guy . . . but I have him third on my big board because I don't think the "guys in charge" feel Wake that much. I dunno, he clearly has gotten the most pressure from our LB's this season in his very limited role. They still list him 4th string on the website. He may just ALWAYS be a situational pass rusher . . . thats why Hughes is third on my board . . . they can easily select him and have Wake as his primary backup and 3rd down player.

If I felt 100% that they were sold on Wake, he would NOT be on my Big Board, because there is a ****load of OLB talent in rounds 2 and 3.

With Cody, obviously workouts and work ethic is the big thing with him . . . he has the body to be an elite NT in the NFL . . . does he have the drive tho? Personally, I think a 3-4 team is gonna fall in love with him and snatch him top 10. But he is NT, we need a NT . . . and he will be the best one available (tho Dan Williams looks good also).

Good point and makes a lot of sense.
However I don't see them passing on him if they feel he is valued in our range b/c you can never have enough pass rushers and if they feel he will be good/great they will get him.

What OLB's do like in the 2nd/3rd?

I think we will look at Johnson from KC in FA as a possible ILB/OLB as well that might come cheap due to a bad year or 3 loll

hooshoops
12-28-2009, 11:54 PM
derick johnson has done nothing but underachieve in kc...you want an ilb who could come free and will earn his keep that guy is karlos dansby

Kdawg954
12-29-2009, 12:02 AM
you talkin taking cody at #12??? hell no

my god

as far as wake goes i think we should fire paul p for his use of players this year...we need a new dc...and one that appreciates cam wake

more on the cody front this front office has had weight clauses with paul solai already...you think they're gonna take a guy who showed up at bama at almost 400 lbs and EVERYONE has weight concerns on with a top pick???

i sure as hell hope not

Well the offseason is gonna show if Cody wants multi millions or just millions . . . if shows up at the combine at 340 and doing his thing . . . kid may get a look. Hey, I mean all I know is, we need a NT and kid is one of the top NT prospects . . . . u don't think we are atleast gonna take a look?

Obviously not a 400 lbs . . . but maybe the kid develops a motor, I dunno.

hooshoops
12-29-2009, 12:05 AM
Well the offseason is gonna show if Cody wants multi millions or just millions . . . if shows up at the combine at 340 and doing his thing . . . kid may get a look. Hey, I mean all I know is, we need a NT and kid is one of the top NT prospects . . . . u don't think we are atleast gonna take a look?

Obviously not a 400 lbs . . . but maybe the kid develops a motor, I dunno.

if he shows up at 340 that would be great for him...but it took him 4 years to get down from 398 to 358 so i doubt it...but after he gets paid you gonna trust him to keep his weight down??? not me

kids a monster when he's not tired which is early in games but his play falls off just like his conditioning as he tires and i would venture to say unless he's in very good shape as in 345 or less his play is gonna suffer just like paul solai's...he's just not gonna dominate guys on the pro level like college if he doesn't take his conditioning serious

and with a top 15 pick no way i take that chance when there's guys much more dedicated to their craft with higher grades imo just waiting to be taken

SR 7
12-29-2009, 12:06 AM
derick johnson has done nothing but underachieve in kc...you want an ilb who could come free and will earn his keep that guy is karlos dansby

You mean if you want a guy taht will come for nearly 60 million contract...aint happening buddy.

hooshoops
12-29-2009, 12:09 AM
You mean if you want a guy taht will come for nearly 60 million contract...aint happening buddy.

maybe but we may get him for 5 years $45 mil over $20 mil guaranteed...

we need to get one legit free agent upgrade whether it be nt, wr ilb, olb whatever

SR 7
12-29-2009, 12:11 AM
maybe but we may get him for 5 years $45 mil over $20 mil guaranteed...

we need to get one legit free agent upgrade whether it be nt, wr ilb, olb whatever

I would do that in a heart beat b/c i dont think their is a LB in a 3-4 in the NFL as good as him in coverage. personally that is.

I really believe we will go ILB and WR in FA. I doubt we go WR in the draft again after 2 last year. Too many young guys

Kdawg954
12-29-2009, 12:12 AM
Good point and makes a lot of sense.
However I don't see them passing on him if they feel he is valued in our range b/c you can never have enough pass rushers and if they feel he will be good/great they will get him.

What OLB's do like in the 2nd/3rd?

I think we will look at Johnson from KC in FA as a possible ILB/OLB as well that might come cheap due to a bad year or 3 loll

Just off the top of my head, LB's in the 2nd/3rd would include:

George Selvie - Was a beast is sophomore year, I have heard about every excuse for his dropoff, I dunno.
Brandon Graham - Would form a nice tandem on the strongside with Hughes or Wake)
Brandon Lang - The next GREAT Troy WOLB?
Ricky Sapp - Part of the Clemson Duo
Greg Hardy - potential 1st rounder but probably could be had in round 2

And there are more

hooshoops
12-29-2009, 12:15 AM
i can see them going hard after 1 free agent upgrade and then using the draft for everything else...

but they may not go after anybody...we'll see

i know i wouldn't pay antonio bryant $20 mil guaranteed off his stats last season in tampa alone...he'd have to show me more

i agree that dansby is very good in coverage and we need a coverage lb...but he's just a good all around lb...nice player

SR 7
12-29-2009, 12:17 AM
i can see them going hard after 1 free agent upgrade and then using the draft for everything else...

but they may not go after anybody...we'll see

i know i wouldn't pay antonio bryant $20 mil guaranteed off his stats last season in tampa alone...he'd have to show me more

i agree that dansby is very good in coverage and we need a coverage lb...but he's just a good all around lb...nice player

I am a huge fan of his and I know BP is and Dansby said he'd love to come to miami and play for our staff.

mmikel30
12-29-2009, 12:27 AM
for me its McClain 1st then Hughes b/c i KNOW 100% that Bryant is going from 3 to 10.id bet money bryant goes somewhere between 9-18

ckparrothead
12-29-2009, 01:15 AM
so you have absolute confidence ck that wake is our long term weakside backer???

and when wwill we get to see him in that role...cause i know that i'm REALLY looking forward to it...

I've seen enough out of Wake not to plunk a first round pick in his way. Taking a guy that high leaves you with obligations to get him playing time and make sure you know what he's going to give you. Drafting Hughes in the first would mean keeping Wake on the bench more even when he's probably the better player. I wouldn't want to commit to that when there are much better things we could be doing with our resources.

Here's one issue with both players and that is they both have primarily rushed from the left. Someone will have to get used to rushing from the right. I'd like to see Wake get more time doing that.

Bottom line is we have three guys who are pass rushers by nature, not cover guys and not run stoppers. You can probably toss Charlie Anderson onto that pile for a fourth. We need someone that can play the strong side, destroy the tight end, cover, and rush the passer. If we don't get a guy like Merriman in free agency, that means we'll be looking at guys like Derrick Morgan, Austen Lane or maybe even Corey Wootton. Maybe you can toss Brandon Graham onto that pile, but I'm skeptical. As a later choice I've already talked about Dexter Davis. I like A.J. Edds a whole lot but he's probably an ILB for us.

ckparrothead
12-29-2009, 01:21 AM
Brandon Lang is someone I could see being plugged in at SOLB for us. I'm not sure I see him as the WOLB prospect that some do. I see him as a guy that is more strong at the point of attack with athletic versatility and some pass rush ability. He lacks great awareness for the ball, but overall he fits the mold.

A guy that Boomer likes to bring up for that position is Jammie Kirlew of Indiana. Big time leader of the defense, good eyes, very strong. Holds up at the point of attack.

hooshoops
12-29-2009, 01:41 AM
I've seen enough out of Wake not to plunk a first round pick in his way. Taking a guy that high leaves you with obligations to get him playing time and make sure you know what he's going to give you. Drafting Hughes in the first would mean keeping Wake on the bench more even when he's probably the better player. I wouldn't want to commit to that when there are much better things we could be doing with our resources.

Here's one issue with both players and that is they both have primarily rushed from the left. Someone will have to get used to rushing from the right. I'd like to see Wake get more time doing that.

Bottom line is we have three guys who are pass rushers by nature, not cover guys and not run stoppers. You can probably toss Charlie Anderson onto that pile for a fourth. We need someone that can play the strong side, destroy the tight end, cover, and rush the passer. If we don't get a guy like Merriman in free agency, that means we'll be looking at guys like Derrick Morgan, Austen Lane or maybe even Corey Wootton. Maybe you can toss Brandon Graham onto that pile, but I'm skeptical. As a later choice I've already talked about Dexter Davis. I like A.J. Edds a whole lot but he's probably an ILB for us.

i agree with all of that and that's why i have hughes so far down my wish list with our first rounder...it has nothing to do with his talent...more i like wake long term on the weakside

i like merriman and he has the size but am i mistaken or does he not play weakside in san diego with philips the solb??? would he enjoy eating up te's and playing run and coverage more than being a primary pass rusher???

also i don't for the life of me as i keep saying feel a solb warrants a top 15 pick in the draft...2nd round on i understand that but imo top 15 picks are reserved for playmakers at skill positions left tackles qbs and pass rushers/cbs plus safety if you have a talent like eric berry

zodiak
12-29-2009, 01:42 AM
CK

I had posted a thread regarding the entire LB unit perhaps gettin a make over and I also mentioned that I dont see the team looking at a "pass rush" OLB but more of a complete OLB.

You metioned there are 3 pass rush backers and one could include anderson into the mix as #4 I assume you are speaking of Porter,Taylor,Wake trio....do you see them perhaps going young and releasing Taylor & Porter giving Anderson & perhaps a drafted OLB or you mentioned Merriman( I dont see that but it could be interesting) them the job and finding out if wake can mature into a WOLB?

ckparrothead
12-29-2009, 02:47 AM
While I could see them parting ways with one of the two older guys, I don't see them parting ways with both.

Remember, on a team with more talent, the older guys with experience provide invaluable character for your team. Look at Willie McGinest in New England or guys like Bruschi, Vrabel, even Junior Seau. At any given time there were absolutely players out there with more "talent" as everyone would measure it by their physical ability to make plays. But those older guys have a knack for making plays at the right time, when the pressure is off them to be the primary playmakers.