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RealDriscoll
12-29-2009, 04:15 PM
Here are some Bowl Games on tonight and some players to scout.

Champs Sports Bowl
8:00, ESPN
Miami (Florida) vs. Wisconsin

Draft Prospects

-Allen Bailey-DL-Miami
-Jason Fox-OT-Miami
-Orlando Franklin-OG-Miami
-Colin McCarthey-LB-Miami
-Daryl Sharpton-LB-Miami
-Jimmy Graham-TE-Miami
-Joe Joseph-DL-Miami
-John Clay-RB-Wisconsin
-Garrett Graham-TE-Wisconsin
-O'Brien Schofield-OLB-Wisconsin

EagleBank Bowl
4:30, ESPN
UCLA vs. Temple

Draft Prospects

-Reggie Carter-ILB-UCLA
-Brian Price-DT-UCLA
-Alterraun Vrener-CB-UCLA
-Andre Neblett-DT-Temple

RealDriscoll
12-29-2009, 04:16 PM
Brian Price and Allen Bailey are guys with 1st Round grades IMO. Bailey will return to Miami and Price will declare IMO. Price is a bit undersize to play Nose Tackle in our defensive scheme BUT I wouldn't rule him out

JT-forpresident
12-29-2009, 04:56 PM
Here are some Bowl Games on tonight and some players to scout.

Champs Sports Bowl
8:00, ESPN
Miami (Florida) vs. Wisconsin

Draft Prospects

-Allen Bailey-DL-Miami
-Jason Fox-OT-Miami
-Orlando Franklin-OG-Miami
-Colin McCarthey-LB-Miami
-Daryl Sharpton-LB-Miami
-Jimmy Graham-TE-Miami
-Joe Joseph-DL-Miami
-John Clay-RB-Wisconsin
-Garrett Graham-TE-Wisconsin
-O'Brien Schofield-OLB-Wisconsin

EagleBank Bowl
4:30, ESPN
UCLA vs. Temple

Draft Prospects

-Reggie Carter-ILB-UCLA
-Brian Price-DT-UCLA
-Alterraun Vrener-CB-UCLA
-Andre Neblett-DT-Temple

thx for the heads up, i'm working tonight at my bar and i was wondering what channel i was going to put on ... (canadiens aren't playing tonight :D )

:thanks:

SnakeoilSeller
12-29-2009, 05:21 PM
Don't forget Cane WR Leonard Hankerson, he may or may not go pro. Any thoughts?

ckparrothead
12-29-2009, 06:27 PM
If Hankerson goes pro I would be VERY bullish on the guy, unless he timed out somewhere in the 4.6 range which would surprise me. He's built like an NFL starter, seems to have the speed and athleticism, and this year his hands have gotten so much better. He's made a lot of plays this year.

hooshoops
12-29-2009, 07:15 PM
i'm taping tonights game specifically to key on jimmy graham

ckparrothead
12-29-2009, 09:43 PM
From what I'm seeing so far, they're showcasing his on the line blocking a little bit. I'm seeing him lined up on the line and blocking some DEs including O'Brian Schofield.

Orlando Franklin starting at LT this game. That should be very interesting. I've always considered him sort of a Branden Albert in that he's so big and talented he should probably be at LT except Jason Fox has been there forever.

ckparrothead
12-29-2009, 09:44 PM
Woof, look'it them basketball skills.

Lord Of Miami
12-29-2009, 09:57 PM
all i have to say is Go Miami!!! lol

I've seen all the Miami games, so i'm be keeping an eye on O'Brian.

RealDriscoll
12-29-2009, 10:12 PM
Wow notice the gut on John Clay?

ckparrothead
12-29-2009, 10:15 PM
Whoops. That's strange. Jimmy Graham appears to be better on the line than he is as an H-Back, when it comes to blocking. He just got Jacory killed.

With the gut he looks like Dice Clay.

Breed
12-29-2009, 11:30 PM
Damn, Kendricks is just dominating.

hooshoops
12-30-2009, 12:36 AM
and the verdict on jimmy graham is RAW with a capital R...

i thought he did ok as in line blocker in the few reps he got there against schoefield...

but like ck said he missed an assignment as in didn't even get a hand on a free incoming defender when lined up as an h back...

he got a free release all night i never saw him have to disengage from anyone at the los he wasn't even chipped but when he got into his routes and was making his cuts with a defender nearby he didn't use his body at all to create separation and he didn't use his hands either to get guys off balance...

he caught 1 ball at the sideline where the closing defender laid a good lick on him and graham barely kept the ball to the ground...in fact i'm not sure the defender didn't take it from him...

he just looks like a guy to me who will take years to develop and with that height is gonna have trouble when guys try to jack him up with leverage in line as a blocker...i see guys getting up underneath of him and being able to move him pretty easily...if he doesn't play with great technique at that height he's gonna have issues imo and i think his technique is at best a work in progress...

like the athleticism on the high ball early on nice leap and catch...

for me he's worth no more than a 5th round pick as a developmental player in a draft as deep and talented as this one promises to be and he's gonna have to play with more of a mean streak to play te for us...in fact i think i would go for a more polished player over him...he's the kind of guy imo you try to stash on your practice squad and develop

regarding jacory harris where did i read on here someone thought he had a pro future at qb??? ugh

ckparrothead
12-30-2009, 12:55 AM
Boy I disagree with most of that. I thought he was very fluid at using his hands to get by defenders within the 5 yard area. Not everything is a jam right on the line of scrimmage. In fact it's a little more rare to see that. Most often you see a linebacker get a hand on you in the second level within the 5 yard area and the tight end has to use his hands in return and get some separation.

The learning curve for him has been steep and fast. Not long ago he'd never touched a football. Now he's blocking Schofield and Watt on the line, even at one point kicking Watt all the way to the sideline on a stretch play and then pancaking him straight onto his back. Now he's releasing on combo routes and using his hands fluidly at the second level to create separation for himself. He's running normal routes and catching normal passes, not just ones where they tell him to get to the back of the end zone and jump high for the ball.

You go ahead and wait until he gets in the 5th round before you take him. I'll take him in the 3rd or even the 2nd round and I'll be a happy camper. You don't come across a guy with his size, athletic ability and quick learning curve very often. They always say, be an athlete. He was one of the most productive shot blockers in UM history. He's an athlete. He does what you ask him to do and he might not do it right the first time or even the second, if he's real new to it, but to be where he's at right now, on the field tonight he was literally as valuable a player as Jermaine Gresham was in an Oklahoma-Texas game I graded from a year ago...and that's pretty incredible. He didn't have Gresham's reputation or respect from a defense, but he had a lot of the same skill and ability. Jacory Harris wasn't finding him a lot of the time that he was open.

Toward the beginning of the season I would look at Jimmy Graham, and look at Dedric Epps (who has a lot of experience at the position, and a lot of athleticism and ability in his own right) and told you that Epps is the more valuable Tight End. Tonight, it wasn't even close. Graham was not only a better pass catching threat, he was a better blocker.

When he missed that one assignment I'm not sure I've ever seen him asked to do that before. It seemed like an awkward play design. He messed up on it big time for sure, but if you had him practice it and asked him to do it for the next month, he wouldn't mess it up next month. That's what I perceive to be his learning curve.

He's a bright kid. Listen to him talk and you'd hear it. He was on the radio one time and they were joking (semi-seriously) that he should join them on the radio because he was a natural speaker and communicated very, very effectively and efficiently. To me, that's just a brain thing. He's a smart guy.

hooshoops
12-30-2009, 01:02 AM
to each his own...

and on that kick out pancake block you referenced was it just me or did he not have a hand on the back of the defender??? sure looked like it to me...

too raw for my taste early

ckparrothead
12-30-2009, 01:11 AM
Looked like a fine block to me.

Every college player coming out is raw. Not every player shows the raw aptitude to take coaching, the willingness to do so, and rare combinations of athleticism, skill and size to be a danger to every defense he meets.

I just see a wholly more valuable player than you do, is all. I think that he will end up going much higher than you think...and it won't be because he blows the doors off a Combine. What is going to happen is, he will get to the Senior Bowl, and the coaches will get hold of him and give him some pro teaching. He'll respond to the coaching, and the coaches will all salivate because of it. After THAT, if he blows the doors off the Combine, then he'll go high.

hooshoops
12-30-2009, 01:13 AM
well i like him more than joey haynos...:lol:

i'll be watching at the senior bowl to see how he does...if he takes to the coaching well i'll bump him up some...but i don't see any chance 2nd round level...we'll see

and i will say i haven't followed him all season to see how far he's come...so i can't gage his learning curve quite like you can if you've been watching him and that makes a difference also

but the word that keeps coming back to me when i have seen him is raw

TedSlimmJr
12-30-2009, 06:12 AM
I'm actually fond of Graham's upside....but not a chance I'd burn a 2nd or 3rd round pick on him....

Not unless it's to a team with already upper echelon tight end and entrenched starter to give Graham plenty of time to develope....

Two guys really jumped off the screen at me....one was O'Brien Schofield.....he lined up at defensive end....played in a 2 point stance and dropped into coverage....and even lined up at defensive tackle and ran some twists and stunts...

He looks surprisingly comfortable in space with some pretty nifty hips and feet.....good bull rush and takes on blocks with the correct shoulder and fights through them pretty good....physical player that understands leverage and hand fights well...

The other was Allen Bailey....he puts the "east" in the word "beast".....sometimes ends up on the ground a little more often than I would like but his natural functional football strength and reaction time is rare....chases down plays from behind well and plays to the whistle....

And watch out in the future for Al Toon's son...

RealDriscoll
12-30-2009, 09:45 AM
Oh come on leave Joey alone. Go to watch up for my Terps; One Terp named Randy Starks got snubbed from the Pro-Bowl but Oh Well.

I could see us looking at Jimmy Graham in Round 4/5 range. I know we don't have a 5th rounder but Kansas City owes us a pick Ndukwe and Allemen.

RealDriscoll
12-30-2009, 09:59 AM
Guys that impressed me in this game were Jimmy Graham and Daryl Sharpton. I could see Jimmy Graham being this years' Brian Hartline as someone we draft earlier than they are expected to go. Seem to block faily well and man he has the size that the Trifecta covets.

Daryl Sharpton seems like he could be a player. He takes good angles to the ball carrier and can finish.

The Miami line was overmatched all night. Jason Fox was more important than I thought. DVR'd this game and will watch more of Graham and Sharpton.

Ricky4Life
12-30-2009, 10:16 AM
Guys that impressed me in this game were Jimmy Graham and Daryl Sharpton. I could see Jimmy Graham being this years' Brian Hartline as someone we draft earlier than they are expected to go. Seem to block faily well and man he has the size that the Trifecta covets.

Daryl Sharpton seems like he could be a player. He takes good angles to the ball carrier and can finish.

The Miami line was overmatched all night. Jason Fox was more important than I thought. DVR'd this game and will watch more of Graham and Sharpton.

Agreed. I was very impressed with the two of them last night.

ckparrothead
12-30-2009, 01:53 PM
If Jimmy Graham goes in the 4th or 5th round, I'll chew a sock.

I've had a 3rd round grade on the guy for a while and I have a feeling that grade will only move north.

Schofield was really on display. He did everything and looked good at it. He had some trouble with Jimmy Graham's blocking but otherwise he was victimizing weaknesses wherever he found them, whether it was a back trying to block him on the outside, one of the weak guards trying to block him when he pass rushed from a 3-technique, or Orlando Franklin's inexperience with the LT position. He also dropped into coverage and looked good there.

My question about him is, is he strong enough to play the SOLB position in a 3-4, and likewise, is he a dangerous enough pass rusher to play the WOLB position in a 3-4? I don't know that he is, and so what I would probably want to do with him is play him at a SLB position in a 4-3.

RealDriscoll
12-30-2009, 01:57 PM
I'd be all over Jimmy Graham with our 3rd Round Pick. I could live with Dez Bryant, Corey Wotton, Jimmy Graham in the first 3 rounds

RealDriscoll
12-30-2009, 01:58 PM
Graham does have the size we covet and is a far better blocker than he is given credit for. I think he is a better blocker on the line rather than out of the backfield like CK mentioned earlier as he can use his size and strength to get his hands on the defender immediatly rather than trying to block him in space.

hooshoops
12-30-2009, 02:27 PM
[quote=ckparrothead;1063268536] If Jimmy Graham goes in the 4th or 5th round, I'll chew a sock.

you prefer a full length ankle or mid cut sock??? :lol:

i know that i think i can get someone more ready to contribute with the same kind of potential at a position of need in the first 3 rounds i'd rather have...right now at least

that 3rd round pick is also likely top 12 in the round...yeah i'm going elsewhere

regarding schoefield i'm pretty much in line with ck...a better 4-3 fit to me on the strongside

RealDriscoll
12-30-2009, 02:40 PM
Well the Patrick Turner pick shows we will gamble if we like someone's size and ability. I could see Graham in Round 3 without question. I'd be pretty happy with that actually.

hooshoops
12-30-2009, 02:46 PM
patrick turner is brandon london redux...once the pads come on guy can't get off the line and doesn't get any separation either down the field or in and out of cuts

patrick turner in the 3rd round was an awful pick imo...and that isn't me saying that after the fact i was saying that on the day we drafted him and all before the draft when i studied him...

RealDriscoll
12-30-2009, 02:51 PM
Oh I agree. I like Turners' size but his game doesn't translate well. I wasn't high on Hartline either but I found myself wearing a custom made Hartline jersey to the game last weekend.

ckparrothead
12-30-2009, 02:55 PM
Here's what I came away from last night thinking...

When Allen Bailey comes out in 2011, it is my feeling that he'd be best played as a 3-4 DE. That is probably why he has looked so out of sorts over the course of his Miami career, because in college if you don't play in the right system and you're a 3-4 DE by nature, they can keep moving you around and there's a chance you'll still never look natural. Bailey is a brutal player. Vicious. He's not an outside pass rusher and I don't know if he's strong enough to hold up to double teams in the interior at DT. If it were a legal move to remove an offensive lineman's arms and then beat him to death with them, that would be Allen Bailey's signature move. He's tough and he wants to dominate the guy in front of him physically. I would love to get hold of the guy in 2011 as a DE but for now he's going back to school so we can stop worrying about him.

Jimmy Graham will be a special player. What I'm going to talk about here is not the same old athleticism argument, though he's not just "good" in that area, I would say he's "special" in both the athleticism and skill department. You don't see a guy that tall with that good running skills, those kind of ups, and that kind of ability to spot and catch the ball with soft hands so frequently. But I promised I wouldn't talk about that. Honestly, I won't. Real soft hands. Fast. One of the best shot blockers in UM history. Not talking about that. What I'm going to talk about is something much less tangible. A year ago the guy had only played a little bit of football in high school, his most recent experience was probably playing pitch and catch with some friends at tailgates or something along those lines. He was a basketball player, and a damn fine one at that. Last night I watched him, shortly after having reviewed some film of Jermaine Gresham (you know, the Tight End that's supposed to be a dynamic rarity, sure first rounder, best in class, etc) and I'll be damned if I came away thinking that Jimmy Graham wasn't nearly as valuable to a football offense. At the beginning of the year I could watch Graham and his fellow Tight End Dedric Epps side by side, and it would be obvious that Graham is just a limited role player while Epps is the overall more valuable player. How many months has it been since then? Maybe two or three? And now you watch the two and there is absolutely no question which player is more valuable. Graham is out there drive blocking J.J. Watt out to the sideline and into the dirt on a stretch play. Watt gave the rest of Miami's offensive linemen (guys 50 pounds heavier than Graham) trouble all day. Graham was holding O'Brien Schofield at bay, on a night when Schofield was taking everyone to school big and small. He caught another one of those high passes that have the look of indefensible. He was using his hands quickly and fluidly to create separation amongst the linebackers at the second level, within the five yard area. He's not the craftiest route runner yet, and when he was motioned into the backfield and asked to block a blitz from that angle (which had to be the first time I'd ever seen him asked to do that) he struggled and whiffed, but this kind of rise is meteoric in a guy that never even played football until this year. It's the same kind of "natural" that allows Sean Smith to be a DAY ONE NFL STARTER in only his third year playing defense, period. You listen to Graham interviewed some time, and he's extremely well spoken. I heard a radio interview and they were joking semi seriously that he might join them for a radio show because he's such an effective communicator. He's a smart kid, finished his Business degree last year and has a double major in Management and Marketing. I've had a third round grade on Graham for a while, I remember discussing this with a guy on another board a month ago, that the third round is where he is for me...but I see that third round grade possibly heading north. It won't be the Combine that raises his draft stock, it will be the Senior Bowl. If he soaks up the coaching the way I theorize based on his upward acceleration over the last year, the coaches will watch him take to the NFL techniques and teachings, and put paid to them on the field, and they'll be salivating and lobbying their GMs for a piece of Jimmy Graham. Then he'll go to the Combine, run a 4.70 with like a 36 inch vertical, and that'll be that.

Speaking of O'Brien Schofield, how much was that guy on display last night? He was all over the place, finding weaknesses in the protection big and small. If the scheme called for a back to block him on the outside, he beasted the back and got to Jacory Harris. If the scheme called for a weak and inexperienced guard to block him, he lined up as a 3-technique and beasted the guard to Jacory Harris. He victimized Orlando Franklin's inexperience at left tackle. He dropped back into coverage and looked damn fine doing it, very fast. But, what is he? I don't know that he's strong enough at the point to play SOLB in a 3-4, and I don't know that he's a dominant enough pass rusher to play WOLB in a 3-4. That leaves him as either a 3-4 ILB, or perhaps my feeling is a SLB in a 4-3 defense. Either way, he had to have opened some eyes last night and I wouldn't be surprised to see his name come off the board in the second round.

As I watched Orlando Franklin, I really got the feeling that he was finally playing the position he should be playing, which is tackle. He's always been one hell of a beast at guard. As I said many moons ago, he was my #1 rated guard in the country. He moved out to left tackle and actually I forgot that I had watched him shut down George Selvie and Jason Pierre-Paul from the LT position live and in person at the UM-USF game. My apologies on that one, I'd had more than my share of beer. The fact that Schofield got the better of him a few times, speaks to Schofield's ability when you consider the above. On Franklin, he's such a natural engulfing mauler that you would love to see him kick out to Right Tackle. But if he returns to school and takes up Jason Fox's Left Tackle position, don't be surprised if he looks really good there. He's moved all along the OL in Whipple's scheme. He played Left Guard, at times they've gone unbalanced right and he became a virtual Left Tackle, with his position officially switched to Left Tackle in the last two games, he has switched over to the right side in their unbalanced right looks (a la Jake Long). His absence at the Left Guard position created a HUGE weakness, because UM couldn't fill the void he left, which really speaks to what he has provided for the offense at that position over the course of this year.

I really believe that Sam Shields has an NFL future. That kind of speed, on a guy that has shown the ability to switch from WR to CB and be a starter in the first year he's done it...he's no Sean Smith but he's got some potential. Did you see that kick return TD? I can't get over this. The way he looped around from the front line position just inside the numbers on the right sideline at the 43 yard line, all the way back to an exchange point I believe just behind the 20 yard line, and then all the way over to the left sideline and down the field to the end zone in what turned out to be a gigantic "U" pattern (fitting)...all at a speed which outran everyone in sight...he must have run a total of 140 or 150 yards on just the one play, at a constant blazing speed. That's ridiculous. He's not great in coverage, he gets tested all the time, but he's not terrible in it either. I think with time he could be a good role player on defense or maybe even a starter.

I've been very high on Leonard Hankerson since the first game of the season against FSU...about the same game that I fell in love with Christian Ponder. If this kid runs in the 4.4 range, I could see him all the way up into the second round. He's got such blessed size and power, and the ability to make circus grabs. He has had trouble with hands in the past before this year but he really went out and had a productive year. I like the WAY he runs, the way he looks catching the ball, everything he does to me screams NFL caliber, reminds me of just a solid football receiver like a Reggie Wayne. He's had himself a nice year considering the offense they run and the fact that Jacory Harris isn't where he needs to be yet. And the way Hankerson played last night, he's normally a good blocker but last night he played with a very high energy in blocking...I think he's coming out. He was showing off for the scouts, IMO. He knows the scouts aren't just looking for what you do when the ball comes your way, and that's how he played. He's played solid without the ball coming his way all year, but last night he really seemed to key on it.

That's about the extent of draft eligible the players I could really key on last night on a first viewing. Sharpton looked...sharp...to me last night, but I didn't key on him as much. Brandon Harris will be a special player.

hooshoops
12-30-2009, 02:55 PM
i liked hartlines short area quickness...if i recall he had one of the fastest three cone drills of any of the wrs...

but i thought at this stage he'd be a heck of a specials player (which he is) and not quite as developed as a wr as he's shown...

i like his change of direction especially in the red zone and he and henne are in sync...

i still think his ceiling is more along the lines of a number #2 nfl wr but he's a tough kid and not afraid to take a lick

ckparrothead
12-30-2009, 03:07 PM
One of my biggest concerns about him was mental inconsistency. Also inconsistent hands. He's shown both this year, but what I really underestimated was his athleticism and natural ability to run himself open. He's got long speed. He's a hurdles champ. I would be willing to hypothesize that fast hurdles guys translate better to vertical threats on an NFL football field, better than just purely fast sprinters. Though, granted, most purely fast sprinters are also really fast hurdlers.

BTW, I realize Ted Ginn was an extremely gifted hurdles guy too...but getting open has NOT been his problem this year.

ckparrothead
12-30-2009, 03:23 PM
And now that I've gone on speculating that Hankerson will come out, he's announced his intention to stay in school. Go figure. :)

Mixed blessing. I would have LOVED the Dolphins to grab him in the mid rounds. And, I'm not totally in love with this year's WR class whereas next year he may have to compete with the likes of Jonathan Baldwin, Julio Jones, Michael Floyd and A.J. Green...who will all be juniors next year.

RealDriscoll
12-30-2009, 03:29 PM
Jonathan Baldwin and Julio Jones are absolute monsters. Michael Floyd and AJ Green are close to monsters. Ryan Broyles is "Chucky" from Child's Play