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radicalracer34
12-30-2009, 12:45 AM
Fire him! with the talent on this team we should be a top 10 team no doubt. the playcalling is absolutely terrible. the linebackers are playing 8 yards off the ball. the team is not physical what so ever. someone please fire this guy he has no clue what hes doing as a head coach.

BARF
12-30-2009, 12:46 AM
i have been saying since the year started next coach will be wipple

kpcane
12-30-2009, 12:56 AM
Firing him would do nothing. Let him take his famed recruiting class until the seniors. If it doesn't produce a national title game appearance, then fire him. But firing him now would do more harm than good in my opinion.

d-day
12-30-2009, 01:39 AM
Firing him would do nothing. Let him take his famed recruiting class until the seniors. If it doesn't produce a national title game appearance, then fire him. But firing him now would do more harm than good in my opinion.

agreed - plus his 2 co-ordinators call most the game anyways - as long as he can recruit, he can be our "figurehead" coach all he wants

Clipse
12-30-2009, 02:17 AM
Randy Shannon is clueless. But as I've said plenty of times, he
is one hell of a recruiter.

JCane
12-30-2009, 08:25 PM
i have been saying since the year started next coach will be wipple

I am sick of Mark Whipple getting a pass. This loss is more on his shoulders than Shannon's I think...and you'll NEVER find me supporting garbage *** Randy Shannon. But Mark Whipple's offense has been so Goddamn predictable since about week 4. And for the last couple of weeks of the season, he's done nothing but attack downfield and go for the home run shots time after time after time. Short routes across the middle of the field with guys like Jimmy Graham are absent now.

One particular play that just set me off was the 3rd and 2 play when Harris went deep to I believe Javarris James and Harris overthrew him. It was a sure six if Harris doesn't overthrow his man. It's not the play call that I have a problem with, it's what happened afterwards. If it's 3rd and 2 then obviously you've decided at that point what you're going to do if you don't get it. Well, we didn't get it and we punt the football. If it's 3rd and 2 and you KNOW that if you don't get the first down that you're definitely going to punt, DO NOT throw the football deep. Pound the football with Damien Berry for two measley yards.

I spoke with Damien's uncle and aunt just before the game...I gotta tell you dudes...Damien and his family aren't happy with the lack of playing time he gets considering his production when he's in the game. It's not fair. Damien is a good kid. He's quiet. He's very humble. He's never in trouble. Doesn't hang with the wrong crowd. Doesn't break even the smallest of team rules. He's never late to practice. He does NOTHING but what is asked of him and he never complains. Teams around th country would LOVE to have a kid like this. And Shannon lets him sit on the bench in favor of Graig Cooper and Javarris James.

I am sick at what I saw last night in the Citrus Bowl. We let a slow *** Big 10 team with nothing but white boys from thousands of miles away come to the Motherland and walk our *****. This is the most unprepared I have seen this team all season. You get a month to work and this is what you put out there? Your offensive line fails on damn near every play to protect your QB who ran for his life all night play after play. I'm embarrassed.

JCane
12-30-2009, 08:33 PM
Randy Shannon is clueless. But as I've said plenty of times, he
is one hell of a recruiter.

Is he really? Is he? Or was he at one time and we still like to believe that he is? He has done NOTHING to impress me lately. He has lost our top recruit, Louis Nix, to Notre Dame. His recruitment of Todd Chandler has become such a black eye that it's beginning to affect Miami's relationship with Miami Northwestern. Miami Northwestern has fed Miami for YEARS now. He still struggles to pull recruits from St. Thomas Aquinas in Lauderdale. He didn't even give Jahkari Gore an offer and LSU pounced on it. The "State of Miami" fence that Schnellenberger worked so hard to build is being chipped away piece by piece by the Florida Gators.

Shannon knows how to speak to inner city kids. He does. I give him that. He knows how to relate to kids. But at the end of the day, you can't say, "Below .500 ACC record. 21 - 17 overall. 0 - 2 in bowl games" any other way. Kids don't know a lot but kids aren't stupid either. Kids want to win. Kids want to play. And kids want to go to the League. Shannon isn't winning. Shannon isn't playing the kids who deserve it. And Shannon isn't sending kids to the League with major potential either.

It's time we ALL open our eyes and see that Randy Shannon is nothing but a nice guy who is reserved for the most part, did a great job HIMSELF of getting himself to where he is in life but is not a leader of men.

Mako
12-30-2009, 09:25 PM
Shannon's ability to recruit, as JCane has stated, is quite a bit overrated. On top of things, Miami isn't exactly a hard sell.. It shouldn't be either. As for his coaching, the numbers speak for themselves.

Take a look at Ron Zook. He could recruit for days too, but his xs and os just weren't satisfactory for Florida standards. Put a coach in there, and they became a National Title team. I don't think the U is that far away, I think if you bring in a coach who knows the xs and os and the Canes are back in the Dance again real soon.

JCane
12-30-2009, 09:28 PM
I don't mind losing. I really don't. What bothers me is the fact that we lose because we're pissing our talent away. Shoker can't coach for ****. And if he loves this University and the football program the way I do and the way he claim to, he'll step down. He's in way over his head right now.

Mako
12-30-2009, 09:33 PM
JCane, who would you like to see the Canes go after as a possible replacement? In your ideal world, if you were running the ship, who would you take a run at?

I got a few names I think would return the U to prominence.

JCane
12-30-2009, 09:36 PM
By the way, you guys want to talk about recruiting, look no further than how empty desks up in Tallahassee are running circles around the Hurricanes right now in the recruiting game. Florida State got a TON of STUD recruits when Mickey Andrews and Bobby Bowden stepped aside. Damn kids didn't even know who their defensive coordinator was going to be and stud linebacker Jeff Luc goes all in with the Seminoles.

Meanwhile, in Coral Gables, Rondo Shoker sits quietly in his office with his arms folded and no plan of action.

I'm sick of thse Shannonigans.

JCane
12-30-2009, 09:44 PM
As of right now today I would make a run at Kevin Sumlin or John Harbaugh. Maybe Gary Patterson of TCU. Patterson could possibly bring Dick Bumpas with him. Dick Bumpas wa a guy who was thrown around the Athletic Department last season as Bill Young's replacement. I think #1 most attainable and best option out there for the money is Kevin Sumlin of Houston, though. Sumlin is a great coach. He's defensive minded. Going from Houston to Miami would be an upgrade. He'd make more money as well.

Mako
12-30-2009, 09:51 PM
By the way, you guys want to talk about recruiting, look no further than how empty desks up in Tallahassee are running circles around the Hurricanes right now in the recruiting game. Florida State got a TON of STUD recruits when Mickey Andrews and Bobby Bowden stepped aside. Damn kids didn't even know who their defensive coordinator was going to be and stud linebacker Jeff Luc goes all in with the Seminoles.

Meanwhile, in Coral Gables, Rondo Shoker sits quietly in his office with his arms folded and no plan of action.

I'm sick of thse Shannonigans.

Exactly.

Miami SHOULD be on par with Florida and Florida State in terms of recruiting and standings. At this stage, if you look at the last five years, they've won roughly the same amount of games that South Florida has.

Things need to improve in Miami, and in a hurry. This is a BCS program, who has slipped.

Mako
12-30-2009, 10:03 PM
As of right now today I would make a run at Kevin Sumlin or John Harbaugh. Maybe Gary Patterson of TCU. Patterson could possibly bring Dick Bumpas with him. Dick Bumpas wa a guy who was thrown around the Athletic Department last season as Bill Young's replacement. I think #1 most attainable and best option out there for the money is Kevin Sumlin of Houston, though. Sumlin is a great coach. He's defensive minded. Going from Houston to Miami would be an upgrade. He'd make more money as well.

Good names, although I'm not sure Harbaugh would leave Stanford for Miami. I could be wrong.

I like Sumlin. He's done some good things in a short period of time at Houston.

Few names I'd like to see as coach of Miami:

Skip Holtz -- As much as I couldn't stand Lou when he was at Notre Dame, and it'd be awkward seeing his son coaching the U, I am unbiased when it comes to good coaches. Skip is a star on the rise in the coaching ranks, coaching UConn to a good record in Division IAA, then restoring East Carolina's program.

Mike Riley-- He's done a very nice job making Oregon State a perennial bowl team and they've remained competitive in the Pac 10.

Kyle Whittingham -- Has maintained the success started by Urban Meyer, and built his own legacy at Utah.

Jon Gruden -- His name was linked to the Notre Dame job, and briefly the Florida job before Urban Meyer decided he was taking a "leave of absence". I think Chucky would flourish in the college ranks and his familiarity with Florida, NFL success and Super Bowl rings would help in his recruiting efforts.

kpcane
12-31-2009, 01:05 AM
Is he really? Is he? Or was he at one time and we still like to believe that he is? He has done NOTHING to impress me lately. He has lost our top recruit, Louis Nix, to Notre Dame. His recruitment of Todd Chandler has become such a black eye that it's beginning to affect Miami's relationship with Miami Northwestern. Miami Northwestern has fed Miami for YEARS now. He still struggles to pull recruits from St. Thomas Aquinas in Lauderdale. He didn't even give Jahkari Gore an offer and LSU pounced on it. The "State of Miami" fence that Schnellenberger worked so hard to build is being chipped away piece by piece by the Florida Gators.

Shannon knows how to speak to inner city kids. He does. I give him that. He knows how to relate to kids. But at the end of the day, you can't say, "Below .500 ACC record. 21 - 17 overall. 0 - 2 in bowl games" any other way. Kids don't know a lot but kids aren't stupid either. Kids want to win. Kids want to play. And kids want to go to the League. Shannon isn't winning. Shannon isn't playing the kids who deserve it. And Shannon isn't sending kids to the League with major potential either.

It's time we ALL open our eyes and see that Randy Shannon is nothing but a nice guy who is reserved for the most part, did a great job HIMSELF of getting himself to where he is in life but is not a leader of men.

Let's put some things into perspective for a minute. Who were our worst players this year? I'd say Pipho, Sharpton (except the past 2-3 games), and Randy Phillips. Jacory showed some improvement over last year, Hankerson and Harris showed major improvement, and Sean Spence probably regressed. And the team won two more games.
It's not what we're used to, that's for sure. We're still losing to teams we shouldn't be, teams that we overmatch, as far as talent goes. But come on, this is a work in progress, and as cliche as it is, you ARE only as strong as your weakest link. And we have several of them.
I'm not giving Randy a free pass by any means, but as I said before, Randy's won at every level - as a player, as an assistant. I think it's fair to give him the chance to succeed as a head coach. I can see why everyone's getting antsy, and I'm not saying a national championship is in the near future, but I think Randy at least deserves a shot. For a guy who means so much to the U, I don't think it's too much to ask.

kpcane
12-31-2009, 11:04 AM
From the Herald (12/30) -

"• Look for Randy Shannon's new contract to be finalized shortly. He will get a four- or five-year deal with a raise from his reported $1 million annual salary."

http://www.miamiherald.com/614/story/1402374-p2.html

Namor
12-31-2009, 11:22 AM
From the Herald (12/30) -

" Look for Randy Shannon's new contract to be finalized shortly. He will get a four- or five-year deal with a raise from his reported $1 million annual salary."

http://www.miamiherald.com/614/story/1402374-p2.html

Hey KP..
How much leash does Randy have?
Or is 9 win seasons going to be the new mark of excellence at
Miami?
What are Randy's goals going to have to be in the next 2 years?
This isn't a swipe,I just feel Shannon reminds me SO MUCH of
Shula when he was at Bama.

TedSlimmJr
12-31-2009, 11:41 AM
If they don't want to fire him yet and want to see his first recruiting class graduate...that's one thing...

However, this amounts to rewarding him for doing next to nothing....

JCane
12-31-2009, 02:11 PM
I want everyone to turn their attention to Ted and Namor's replies in this thread. It's funny how when you aren't emotionally attached to the team how much perspective you have and how you can see something for what it truly is. Shannon is the same damn coach as Shula. 9 wins is the mark of excellence at Miami now. Randy Shannon is being rewarded for accomplishing nothing.

You want perspective? What is it about a .500 ACC record, 21 - 17 overall, and 0 - 2 in meaningless bowl games do you people not understand? Miami fans are delusional. I've seen more rational thought from baboons. It's not hard to see that Shoker isn't the guy.

But as long as the program is keeping its nose clean, Shannon gets the praise and should. The program is making positive headlines on the field and in the classroom. Shannon gets the praise and should. Players are graduating in record fashion. Shannon gets the praise and should. This is GOLD for Presidet Shalala. She is ESTACTIC with the results of the football program. She wants Randy here forever because it's reflecting well on the University in general and it's burying the 1980's. Miami is a prestigious private school with high academic standards. "The Harvard of the South." Academics will always trump athletics at Miami.

JCane
12-31-2009, 02:47 PM
And in case you haven't heard, the Florida State Seminoles have cherry picked Matt Elam, a five-star Gator commit, from the Gators this morning. Matt Elam is a STUB DB from West Palm Beach. With Urban Meyer's future in confusing limbo right now, the Seminoles came hard after that kid. So you're looking at a secondary with Greg Reid and Matt Elam over the next three years in Tallahassee. And they're licking their chops watching film on Jacory Harris. In the meantime, this is what's going on in Coral Gables...

"Things just didn't happen our way," Shannon said. "I can't explain why."

That's your coach. This is who is leading your program back to the "promise land." A guy with now fuggin' clue.

Namor
12-31-2009, 04:20 PM
I want everyone to turn their attention to Ted and Namor's replies in this thread. It's funny how when you aren't emotionally attached to the team how much perspective you have and how you can see something for what it truly is. Shannon is the same damn coach as Shula. 9 wins is the mark of excellence at Miami now. Randy Shannon is being rewarded for accomplishing nothing.

You want perspective? What is it about a .500 ACC record, 21 - 17 overall, and 0 - 2 in meaningless bowl games do you people not understand? Miami fans are delusional. I've seen more rational thought from baboons. It's not hard to see that Shoker isn't the guy.

But as long as the program is keeping its nose clean, Shannon gets the praise and should. The program is making positive headlines on the field and in the classroom. Shannon gets the praise and should. Players are graduating in record fashion. Shannon gets the praise and should. This is GOLD for Presidet Shalala. She is ESTACTIC with the results of the football program. She wants Randy here forever because it's reflecting well on the University in general and it's burying the 1980's. Miami is a prestigious private school with high academic standards. "The Harvard of the South." Academics will always trump athletics at Miami.

JC..like I've many times the canes are my second favorite team so there is
a little emotion involved for me.
But the other night playing against Wisc...I was in shock..
This canes team is full of great athletes but it seems if they don't like
to get physical...and that comes from coaching.
A team is supposed to take on the coaches demeanor.
At Bama we all wanted Mike Shula to do well..he was one of our
own..just keep us out of trouble and bring us back to respectability,
which he did...but after 5 years he was doing the same stupid things over and over..He just could not make that next step.
And we gave him a silly raise and extension,just to have to fire him the next year.
I'd hate for Miami to go through the same thing and it looks just like it.
Shannon is the same as Shula....one of your own,good recruiter,good
coordinator,will keep the program respectable but just not head coaching
material at a big time program.
Don't let loyalty blind you...pull the band-aid off quick and the healing
will start quicker.

TheDon74
12-31-2009, 05:20 PM
I say give one more year and if they aren't in a BCS game next year he's gone.

Lorenzo Rules
12-31-2009, 05:43 PM
well I think Randy Shannon was part of the reason the dolphins had a good defense Shannon needs to be coordinator perferably as a defensive coordinator with the fins.
I will tell you who you should go after and that is Bob Stoops or Les Miles. ok maybe not Les Miles but RC Slocum would be a great get for you.

or maybe you can have Sparano as a fin fan I wont object .

JCane
12-31-2009, 05:52 PM
well I think Randy Shannon was part of the reason the dolphins had a good defense Shannon needs to be coordinator perferably as a defensive coordinator with the fins.
I will tell you who you should go after and that is Bob Stoops or Les Miles. ok maybe not Les Miles but RC Slocum would be a great get for you.

or maybe you can have Sparano as a fin fan I wont object .

Why the hell would Bob Stoops leave Oklahoma for a program with high academic standards and less money? Oklahoma is a premier job. Miami is not. Miami has ALWAYS been a springboard job.

Randy Shannon as defensive coordinator for the Dolphins. What? Have you seen Shannon's prehistoric "bend don't break" Cover 2 defense that is currently FAILING him? Let me give you an idea of what it looks like these days...

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2009/12/bloglandfillnew-1.jpg

Awsi Dooger
01-01-2010, 03:26 AM
* I think Shannon is here for a long time, for the reasons detailed earlier in this thread. He'll graduate players, win 7-9 games and generally keep the team out of bad headlines. For Shalala, that's plenty. Anyone who makes apparently safe but truly masochistic choices like joining the ACC and abandoning the Orange Bowl isn't the caliber to oust a football coach and actually replace him with someone better.

* The Champs Bowl outcome was hardly a surprise. I default to everything I posted about the Virginia Tech game in the Canes season long thread. Miami simply can't cope with downhill blue collar teams. We come prepared to win easily, fast athletes in an open field. That opening kickoff was right up our alley. Once the game evolves into something else, actual trenches dispute, it's almost unfair. We prefer hand warmers. Please, Wisconsin, run sideways.

* Our recruiting is not going to match expectation when we're playing in the current dump at the edge of the Calder barns. You can forget that for as long as we're tenant. I don't care what the recruits claim, the ones who supposedly love the place and its NFL ties. It's the easiest handicap of all time, other than Mike Leach with fewer than 30 rushes. There's no way a kid is going to sample on campus stadiums with amazing atmosphere and find them lacking compared to a rented and empty glorified warehouse in the middle of nowhere. For most players it will be a minor issue or non issue. But in such a competitive environment you can't afford to forfeit a few percent here and a few percent there. That's what we manage with a coach like Shannon and a home venue like (fill in current name).

kpcane
01-01-2010, 04:03 AM
Hey KP..
How much leash does Randy have?
Or is 9 win seasons going to be the new mark of excellence at
Miami?
What are Randy's goals going to have to be in the next 2 years?
This isn't a swipe,I just feel Shannon reminds me SO MUCH of
Shula when he was at Bama.

Well, let me ask you something. How many national championships did Shula win as a player? How many did he win as a defensive coordinator? How many defenses did he coach that are considered amongst the best to have EVER played? That's not a swipe at Shula, it's just to say that Shannon is a proven winner. 9 wins isn't the mark of excellence. You guys were saying the same thing last year about 7 wins being the mark of excellence. Again, this guy's best players would be redshirt freshmen at most other schools. You simply cannot expect a guy to produce a BCS caliber squad with that. Remember when everyone thought we'd be 0-4 to start the season? Yeah, how'd that work out? Seems we all have short memories.
I don't think Randy deserves that long of an extension, and he should be on a short leash through the next two years, but I think it's downright absurd that people are expecting him to have a national championship caliber team when your seniors are sharpton, pipho, and phillips. Give me an f'in break.
This offseason is huge. Jacory needs to develop into a top tier QB, the o-line has to be extremely better, and sean spence needs to become the leader of the D again. I'm going to wait and see for one more year.

Namor
01-01-2010, 12:07 PM
Mike Dubose won Nat'l championships as a player and as a coordinator at Alabama
before becoming head coach...
He was the WORST coach in Bama history.
He was the coach that almost got Bama the death penalty.
I pray to God that isn't the type of comparison the Shannon follows.
No one is saying its a chamionship or bust...just don't go extending him just yet.
I would just like to see Miami get a little more physical with teams.
The old days, someone ,a Ray Lewis,maybe would have took it upon himself
to clobber a tight end just for the hell of it,to slow down the free reign the tight ends
were having the other night.
I just don't see many adjustments being made.
I hope it works out..good guys should win...it just doesn't always happen like that.

kpcane
01-01-2010, 05:52 PM
Mike Dubose won Nat'l championships as a player and as a coordinator at Alabama
before becoming head coach...
He was the WORST coach in Bama history.
He was the coach that almost got Bama the death penalty.
I pray to God that isn't the type of comparison the Shannon follows.
No one is saying its a chamionship or bust...just don't go extending him just yet.
I would just like to see Miami get a little more physical with teams.
The old days, someone ,a Ray Lewis,maybe would have took it upon himself
to clobber a tight end just for the hell of it,to slow down the free reign the tight ends
were having the other night.
I just don't see many adjustments being made.
I hope it works out..good guys should win...it just doesn't always happen like that.

Ok. I'm sure there are a ton of examples of guys that have won as players and assistants and didn't pan out. But Mike Shula, the guy you said he reminded you of, isn't one of them. Shula wasn't a proven winner. Shannon is. So when Sharpton is playing instead of Brown, well maybe Shannon knows a little more than I do. And when Matt Pipho is playing RT instead of the water boy, well maybe Shannon knows a little more than I do. And when Javarris James is starting at tailback instead of Damien Berry, well maybe Shannon knows a little more than I do. I've won 0 national championships, Shannon's been a part of 3. Will Shannon build us back into a national championship team? Maybe. Maybe not. But he has more of a track record than 95% of the 'available' coaches. Don't get me wrong, I think Shannon should be held accountable, but I'm also not going to be all over him when he's been recruiting *ok* and he still has no leadership with the seniors. The only good senior this year was Jason Fox. We need about 7-8 NFL-ready juniors/seniors like Jason Fox before we're going to be competing for national titles again.

Kdawg954
01-02-2010, 08:33 AM
Fire Randy? He has made 2 game improvements every year . . . and now he famed recruiting class goes into its third season. Give it time . . . we are so impatient sometimes.

He will not get fired unless the program takes a big step backwards. I mean if we come out next year and don't make a bowl game, then u look at replacing him. U can't replace him now, that is crazy. Plus UM loves him for the things he does off the field and the success he is having graduating kids. Randy is going nowhere anytime soon, but like everybody else, I do want to start competing for national championships sooner than later.

CedarPhin
01-04-2010, 07:41 PM
It's nice that he can recruit and all, but if you can't develop that talent, then there's not a whole hell of a lot else you can do about it.

It's like me. I'm a mining prospector on the side. If I find a gold mine, full of gold ore, and do nothing to develop it to make it valuable, then what good is it?

Get Shannon on the next bus out of Miami.

kpcane
01-04-2010, 08:12 PM
It's nice that he can recruit and all, but if you can't develop that talent, then there's not a whole hell of a lot else you can do about it.

It's like me. I'm a mining prospector on the side. If I find a gold mine, full of gold ore, and do nothing to develop it to make it valuable, then what good is it?

Get Shannon on the next bus out of Miami.

Yeah I know what you mean. Leonard Hankerson, Allen Bailey, Graig Cooper, Demarcus VanDyke, and Damien Berry from his first class. All scrubs.

3 star Jacory Harris getting Heisman talk as a true sophomore. Travis Benjamin, Laron Byrd, Thearon Collier, all 3 star WR's making no contributions in the passing game. Vaughn Telemaque, Sean Spence, All-American Brandon Harris, and Marcus Robinson? Ugh...I'd rather have FSU's defense.

True freshmen Olivier Vernon, Mike James, and Ray Ray Armstrong? Man, I can really see your point. Shannon needs to go. He's messed up all of the great players Larry Coker left this squad like Randy Phillips, Matt Pipho, Darryl Sharpton, AJ Trump, Sam Shields, you know - true leaders that really made a difference and would have put this team over the top with a better supporting cast.

:rolleyes2:

JCane
01-04-2010, 09:21 PM
Listen, if you guys can't see that we have some serious problems starting at the top, then I'm sorry. I don't know what else you guys need to see to get it but I've seen enough on the field this season. These players don't care. That's a coaching problem.

We let an average Clemson team with inferior talent beat us at home.

We let a garbage North Carolina team beat while Butch Davis once again ran circles around Randy Shannon.

We showed up in Orlando more unprepared than any Hurricane team I've ever seen. We were in the state of Florida. Basically a home game for us. And we let a slow *** Big 10 team beat us down. Maybe I am impatient. But with the money I take out of my pocket each year and hand to the school and that's the product I get...understand why I'm a bit impatient.

Rarry Shoker needs to go. This boat in my sig will sink very soon.

CedarPhin
01-04-2010, 09:38 PM
Yeah I know what you mean. Leonard Hankerson, Allen Bailey, Graig Cooper, Demarcus VanDyke, and Damien Berry from his first class. All scrubs.

3 star Jacory Harris getting Heisman talk as a true sophomore. Travis Benjamin, Laron Byrd, Thearon Collier, all 3 star WR's making no contributions in the passing game. Vaughn Telemaque, Sean Spence, All-American Brandon Harris, and Marcus Robinson? Ugh...I'd rather have FSU's defense.

True freshmen Olivier Vernon, Mike James, and Ray Ray Armstrong? Man, I can really see your point. Shannon needs to go. He's messed up all of the great players Larry Coker left this squad like Randy Phillips, Matt Pipho, Darryl Sharpton, AJ Trump, Sam Shields, you know - true leaders that really made a difference and would have put this team over the top with a better supporting cast.

:rolleyes2:

Cute that some still beat the "it's Coker's fault!!" drum after 3 years.

Harris actually regressed as the season went on. Cooper's decent, but not a top flight back.

Javarris James, McCarthy, etc., they all had great freshman debuts, but never really did anything. Oh I'm sure that it's because they were around Coker too. You do realize that Shannon was on Coker's failed staff for all of those years too right?

Give me a break. Take off the Orange and Green glasses.

CedarPhin
01-04-2010, 09:40 PM
Listen, if you guys can't see that we have some serious problems starting at the top, then I'm sorry. I don't know what else you guys need to see to get it but I've seen enough on the field this season. These players don't care. That's a coaching problem.

We let an average Clemson team with inferior talent beat us at home.

We let a garbage North Carolina team beat while Butch Davis once again ran circles around Randy Shannon.

We showed up in Orlando more unprepared than any Hurricane team I've ever seen. We were in the state of Florida. Basically a home game for us. And we let a slow *** Big 10 team beat us down. Maybe I am impatient. But with the money I take out of my pocket each year and hand to the school and that's the product I get...understand why I'm a bit impatient.

Rarry Shoker needs to go. This boat in my sig will sink very soon.

Buuuuuuuuuuut JCane, how dare you criticize Shannon! It's all Coker's fault!

As usual, spot on analysis from JCane. Nice job buddy.

JCane
01-04-2010, 09:49 PM
Damien Berry might as well be a scrub if Shannon isn't going to play him. It's not hard to look out on the field and see that Damien Berry moves the football and Graig Cooper does not. Cooper does to an extent but we're all very familiar with the Graig Cooper School of Dance.

Coaching is all about decision making. There has been a decision made to play Cooper and play Javarris over the more physical, more productive Damien Berry? Why is that? I've made some very personal **** known here about Damien Berry and if it's true, it's ****ed up on Shannon's part. I don't know if it's 100% true but it wouldn't suprise me one bit if it was.

All of that Jacory for Heisman talk was uncalled for. It was premature. We all became a Prisoner of the Moment. He was great early and faded late. That's the mental makeup of a very young QB still learning the ropes. Jacory isn't exactly the biggest, most physical QB like Tebow and Ponder either.

There's problems all over this team. We tackle poorly. We cover poorly. We take bad angles. Kids are out of position. We call timeouts because we have the wrong personnel on the field or because we have 10 men on the field. That's all coaching. Remember last season against Florida State when Christian Ponder bulldozed our linebackers while blistering us for 150+ yards? That's ridiculous. That's player development. It all starts at the top guys. It begins and ends with Randy Shannon.

CedarPhin
01-04-2010, 09:59 PM
Like I said, you can bring in all the great talent you want, the WRs, RBs, etc., but if you can't develop them, then there's not a hell of a lot you can do.

They all have potential, but if you don't utilize that potential, then you'll just be stuck spinning your tires in the mud.

Just like my gold mine analogy. You can have a ton of gold ore, but if you don't refine it, it's just a bunch of rocks.

kpcane
01-05-2010, 12:26 AM
Listen, if you guys can't see that we have some serious problems starting at the top, then I'm sorry. I don't know what else you guys need to see to get it but I've seen enough on the field this season. These players don't care. That's a coaching problem.

We let an average Clemson team with inferior talent beat us at home.

We let a garbage North Carolina team beat while Butch Davis once again ran circles around Randy Shannon.

We showed up in Orlando more unprepared than any Hurricane team I've ever seen. We were in the state of Florida. Basically a home game for us. And we let a slow *** Big 10 team beat us down. Maybe I am impatient. But with the money I take out of my pocket each year and hand to the school and that's the product I get...understand why I'm a bit impatient.

Rarry Shoker needs to go. This boat in my sig will sink very soon.

Who do you think our worst players are?

kpcane
01-05-2010, 12:31 AM
Cute that some still beat the "it's Coker's fault!!" drum after 3 years.

Harris actually regressed as the season went on. Cooper's decent, but not a top flight back.

Javarris James, McCarthy, etc., they all had great freshman debuts, but never really did anything. Oh I'm sure that it's because they were around Coker too. You do realize that Shannon was on Coker's failed staff for all of those years too right?

Give me a break. Take off the Orange and Green glasses.

You're the one who said Randy's not developing talent. It's obnoxiously clear that he is.

I think that Whipple regressed as the season went on. He had a good, clear gameplan early in the year. Quick plays, quick passes. Then, he decided to let Jacory sit in the pocket for more than 3 seconds, and that didn't work out too well.

And I wouldn't say that McCarthy isn't 'doing anything'. I think he's a pretty decent linebacker.

And it seems like you need a history lesson on Shannon's defenses. 5 out of 6 seasons his defenses were in the top 7 in the country. You truly think that was a problem???

JCane
01-05-2010, 12:36 AM
Who do you think our worst players are?

Graig Cooper
Javarris James
Sam Shields
Chavez Grant
Matt Pipho

I kinda want to lump Randy Phillips in with this group as well. But these are our primary issues. Cooper could do well if he wouldn't dance around so much but that has always been his problem.

kpcane
01-05-2010, 12:37 AM
Damien Berry might as well be a scrub if Shannon isn't going to play him. It's not hard to look out on the field and see that Damien Berry moves the football and Graig Cooper does not. Cooper does to an extent but we're all very familiar with the Graig Cooper School of Dance.

Coaching is all about decision making. There has been a decision made to play Cooper and play Javarris over the more physical, more productive Damien Berry? Why is that? I've made some very personal **** known here about Damien Berry and if it's true, it's ****ed up on Shannon's part. I don't know if it's 100% true but it wouldn't suprise me one bit if it was.

All of that Jacory for Heisman talk was uncalled for. It was premature. We all became a Prisoner of the Moment. He was great early and faded late. That's the mental makeup of a very young QB still learning the ropes. Jacory isn't exactly the biggest, most physical QB like Tebow and Ponder either.

There's problems all over this team. We tackle poorly. We cover poorly. We take bad angles. Kids are out of position. We call timeouts because we have the wrong personnel on the field or because we have 10 men on the field. That's all coaching. Remember last season against Florida State when Christian Ponder bulldozed our linebackers while blistering us for 150+ yards? That's ridiculous. That's player development. It all starts at the top guys. It begins and ends with Randy Shannon.

Look man, I agree with you that Randy Shannon is doing a poor job right now. But to me, it's not worth firing him over.

Great example with the FSU game in '08. Did it happen again in '09? Yes, Ponder passed all over us, but he didn't run all over us like he did in '08.

What about with Ga Tech? Major improvements in '09, right?

I know what we all expect out of the U. We expect national championships, we expect to win every game. And maybe Randy Shannon isn't the right guy for the job, but I think he deserves a real fair shot. And that means more than 3 years, and 2 full recruiting seasons.

kpcane
01-05-2010, 12:38 AM
Graig Cooper
Javarris James
Sam Shields
Chavez Grant
Matt Pipho

I kinda want to lump Randy Phillips in with this group as well. But these are our primary issues. Cooper could do well if he wouldn't dance around so much but that has always been his problem.

So, none of those players are going to be here next year. Why would you think this team would get worse?

JCane
01-05-2010, 12:39 AM
You're the one who said Randy's not developing talent. It's obnoxiously clear that he is.

I think that Whipple regressed as the season went on. He had a good, clear gameplan early in the year. Quick plays, quick passes. Then, he decided to let Jacory sit in the pocket for more than 3 seconds, and that didn't work out too well.

And I wouldn't say that McCarthy isn't 'doing anything'. I think he's a pretty decent linebacker.

And it seems like you need a history lesson on Shannon's defenses. 5 out of 6 seasons his defenses were in the top 7 in the country. You truly think that was a problem???

Defense was a problem to an extent. Whipple certainly regressed as the season went on. He gets a C+ from me. Why we went away from short passes over the middle of the field is beyond me. Seems like we were always looking to hit the big home run ball later in the season. Jacory had a torn ligament in his finger during the bowl game as well and we're trying to hit home runs down the sideline on 3rd and 2 to Javarris and then PUNT on 4th down.

Why?

kpcane
01-05-2010, 12:44 AM
Defense was a problem to an extent. Whipple certainly regressed as the season went on. He gets a C+ from me. Why we went away from short passes over the middle of the field is beyond me. Seems like we were always looking to hit the big home run ball later in the season. Jacory had a torn ligament in his finger during the bowl game as well and we're trying to hit home runs down the sideline on 3rd and 2 to Javarris and then PUNT on 4th down.

Why?

Well yeah, I think Randy needs to take much more control over the defense. The defenses he's had as a head coach haven't been half as good as when he was the DC.

And yeah, Whipple's play calling had been very questionable late in the year. That's why I'm not too worried about this team. I think (maybe more like hope) that the coaches are going to correct their mistakes, and the o-line will get some fresh blood, and the offensive playmakers are going to get even better. I really think we're at least 2 years away from calling for Randy's head. He isn't regressing like Coker was. He's actually improving. I know we want more improvement, but we also have to understand the lack of senior leadership this team had.

JCane
01-05-2010, 12:48 AM
So, none of those players are going to be here next year. Why would you think this team would get worse?

I've seen nothing that makes me believe that Shannon can win more than 9 games next season. I get what you're saying but it's not enough. The schedule next season is tougher than this season. We got lucky to play a skeleton Oklahoma team. We could have easily lost to Wake Forest. We could have easily lost to Florida State as well. These were very close games. Wake Forest should have been a blowout. Even Coker blew the doors off of Wake Forest...with Kyle Wright.

Shannon's biggest problem is motivation. He's not a great motivator. He doesn't get excited. Doesn't matter if he's on the field or in the cafeteria. I've spoken to the guy. He's very quiet, very calm, very stoic. He's just not a guy who excites kids. Schnellenberger, Jimmy Johnson, those were Miami icons. Those were appealing guys who could get a kid to believe that in his vision. Shannon isn't selling his vision anymore.

But hey, he needs time to develop these kids right? Nick Saban needed a whole two years. Dabo Swinney took garbage *** Clemson to the ACC title game in his first full season as head coach. Shannon has been here three years and we've done nothing.

Shannon hasn't even won a meaningless game...how is he going to win a meaningful game?

JCane
01-05-2010, 12:53 AM
Well yeah, I think Randy needs to take much more control over the defense. The defenses he's had as a head coach haven't been half as good as when he was the DC.

And yeah, Whipple's play calling had been very questionable late in the year. That's why I'm not too worried about this team. I think (maybe more like hope) that the coaches are going to correct their mistakes, and the o-line will get some fresh blood, and the offensive playmakers are going to get even better. I really think we're at least 2 years away from calling for Randy's head. He isn't regressing like Coker was. He's actually improving. I know we want more improvement, but we also have to understand the lack of senior leadership this team had.

Remember when I said Jon Lovett would be the new DC and that essentially it was a puppet hire? Lovett's specialty is defensive backs. Who was the most improved player this season? Brandon Harris. But the defense is still Shannon's Cover 2 garbage. Bend don't break. It's a react defense. The defense reacts to what the offense does. Instead of preventing plays from developing, plays develop and we just hope we can prevent the offense from getting a first down in three tries. Bend don't break. Shannon has his hands all in that defense. Moreso that you guys think. Just because Lovett is here doesn't mean he's the primary shot caller. Lovett's job was to improve the secondary and stop Georgia Tech's Option offense. He did that.

kpcane
01-06-2010, 09:26 PM
I've seen nothing that makes me believe that Shannon can win more than 9 games next season. I get what you're saying but it's not enough. The schedule next season is tougher than this season. We got lucky to play a skeleton Oklahoma team. We could have easily lost to Wake Forest. We could have easily lost to Florida State as well. These were very close games. Wake Forest should have been a blowout. Even Coker blew the doors off of Wake Forest...with Kyle Wright.

Shannon's biggest problem is motivation. He's not a great motivator. He doesn't get excited. Doesn't matter if he's on the field or in the cafeteria. I've spoken to the guy. He's very quiet, very calm, very stoic. He's just not a guy who excites kids. Schnellenberger, Jimmy Johnson, those were Miami icons. Those were appealing guys who could get a kid to believe that in his vision. Shannon isn't selling his vision anymore.

But hey, he needs time to develop these kids right? Nick Saban needed a whole two years. Dabo Swinney took garbage *** Clemson to the ACC title game in his first full season as head coach. Shannon has been here three years and we've done nothing.

Shannon hasn't even won a meaningless game...how is he going to win a meaningful game?

Well, Shannon didn't need to 'excite' all of those top defenses he produced, and they seemed to be ok. I think it would be rather pointless to go over all of the coaches who don't 'excite' people and are still successful.

Nick Saban and Dabo Swinney are successful because they inherited some talent. Neither of those guys depended fully on younger players carrying the load, and being the leaders of the team. Saban has a heck of a lot of senior leadership and talent, especially on D. Swinney has CJ Spiller. You can't really rank these guys yet, because they have each dealt with far different scenarios and opportunities.

And now we're saying Shannon hasn't won a meaningful game? You think that beating FSU to start this season wasn't meaningful? Or blowing the doors off of Ga Tech at home the next week? Or beating a pretty good Oklahoma team (no they weren't elite like last year, but still pretty damn good). He has a lot to improve upon, but he's been making strides each year. Granted, if he didn't set the bar so low his first year, I might not be impressed, but I still have hope for him and the Canes for the next two years.

kpcane
01-06-2010, 09:27 PM
Remember when I said Jon Lovett would be the new DC and that essentially it was a puppet hire? Lovett's specialty is defensive backs. Who was the most improved player this season? Brandon Harris. But the defense is still Shannon's Cover 2 garbage. Bend don't break. It's a react defense. The defense reacts to what the offense does. Instead of preventing plays from developing, plays develop and we just hope we can prevent the offense from getting a first down in three tries. Bend don't break. Shannon has his hands all in that defense. Moreso that you guys think. Just because Lovett is here doesn't mean he's the primary shot caller. Lovett's job was to improve the secondary and stop Georgia Tech's Option offense. He did that.

Well yeah, Shannon said as much didn't he? And again, listing of all of the 'bend don't break' defenses that have been very successful, would also be pointless. Trust me, I'm screaming at the TV for them to blitz more too, but I haven't won any national titles as a DC either.

JCane
01-07-2010, 06:14 PM
Not sure if I've mentioned this yet or not...

Shannon is set to receive a 4 - 5 year extension. The extension is on the table but Randy has NOT signed it yet. I'm curious as to why he has not signed it but then again, I'm not very familiar with lawyer jargon or contract signings. However, there is a buyout that is VERY favorable for the University which is good news. This tells me that Kirby Hocutt isn't a complete moron and understands that Randy hasn't exactly gotten where Hocutt wants the program. I just wish I knew exactly what the buyout was.