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justdev7
12-30-2009, 11:50 PM
I really am starting to like this guy. I had no idea he was this fast. He's got great size at 6'3" 225 and aside from his natural gifts he has good hands and he is just one of those guys who makes big plays. His short routes look like they need some work but he digs really hard at the snap and will force db's to give him some cushion. The best part is that he's not going to run very fast and he doesn't look like he has the greatest vertical, so assuming that he declares which most think he will he may slide to the late second or possibly the early third round. L love Bryant and am a big fan of Benn but Thomas has solidified himself as the clear #3 or maybe even #2 WR in my mind. What do you guys think?

Link from Youtube.com:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMK59U6nCuw

Link from Prodraftparty.com:
http://www.prodraftparty.com/2009/wr-demaryius-thomas-scouting-report/

WelcomeBack
12-30-2009, 11:58 PM
For me, it's Bryant, Benn, Tate and then a toss-up between LaFell and Thomas.

baseballcb95
12-31-2009, 12:02 AM
IMO

Dez Bryant
Golden Tate
Demaryius Thomas
Damian Williams
Arrelious Benn
Danario Alexander
Brandon Lafell
Mardy Gilyard
Dezmon Briscoe


Wow, there is actually a very good selection this year...

baseballcb95
12-31-2009, 12:09 AM
He led the ACC in recieving yards on a team that runs the ball like theres no tomorow, he had the most YAC in the nation, he is so physcial and Im assuming is a GREAT blocker because of how much they run it outside with the triple option. This kid is going to be an absolute stud.

BARF
12-31-2009, 12:14 AM
i just hope we get one of those wr's

hooshoops
12-31-2009, 12:45 AM
for our needs only

1. dez bryant by far
2. arrelius benn
3. golden tate
4. demarious thomas

i like mardy gilyard a lot but i don't think he's what we need per say

other than that i'm not impressed or gonna be satisfied with guys who grade out as #2 and #3 pro wrs...

we need a go to guy i think the top 4 are the only ones who become that kind of player...and i think dez bryant is the cream of the crop

i don't like damian williams i don't like dezmon briscoe i don't like denario alexander i don't like brandon lafell

TheBow305
12-31-2009, 03:14 AM
I completely agree about Thomas, I love this guy. Would love to get him in the 2nd if we don't get Bryant in the 1st.

OrlandoFin
12-31-2009, 08:29 AM
I absolutely love Thomas. I think he is head to head with Benn as being the second best receiver in the draft. Benn will run faster at the combine in the 4.3-4.4 range and Thomas will run in the 4.5-4.6 range. Funny thing is if you watch Thomas play his "football" speed sure seems faster than that. Rice ran a 4.6 but I never saw anyone catch him from behind, and I can say the same thing about Thomas.

Thomas is the most physical receiver I have seen since Boldin and at 6'3", 225lbs he has more size. He catches everything in his hands not his body and fights for the ball. He is also a very good blocker.

I think when it all shakes out he will be one of if not the most productive WR coming out of this draft (if he declares) but will probably be a second and some even think he will be a third because of his timed speed and the lack of difficult routes they run in a heavy running game. To me he just has that "it" factor. I really want him in Miami.

Oraclepz
12-31-2009, 02:56 PM
Dude has nice size.. and is very physical.. ill be keeping an eye out on him...

Pat-London
12-31-2009, 03:43 PM
Definitely has a "physical freak" sort of label. However, what would really concern me is, coming from a wishbone offense, the level of sophistication within their passing game would be limited. Therefore, how would he do adjusting to the Pro game and the nuances of WR play which is the 2nd toughest position to transition to coming out of college behind QB.

Dont we have a 6'5" 220lb WR on our Roster... how's he doing?

Its a tough call, considering the amount of holes we have on this team can we afford to spend a low 1st, high 2nd on what in essence is a reach... purley because of his lack of experience in a developed passing attack?

OrlandoFin
12-31-2009, 04:32 PM
Definitely has a "physical freak" sort of label. However, what would really concern me is, coming from a wishbone offense, the level of sophistication within their passing game would be limited. Therefore, how would he do adjusting to the Pro game and the nuances of WR play which is the 2nd toughest position to transition to coming out of college behind QB.

Dont we have a 6'5" 220lb WR on our Roster... how's he doing?

Its a tough call, considering the amount of holes we have on this team can we afford to spend a low 1st, high 2nd on what in essence is a reach... purley because of his lack of experience in a developed passing attack?

Valid points and I have brought up the concern about the lack of sophistication in the passing game at GA Tech. I think because of that and his timed speed will be 4.5 to 4.6 range he will be a mid second to third round pick.

The only comparison I see to him and Turner is size. Thomas plays faster than his forty speed, Turner does not. Thomas catches everything in his hands and knows how to go up and get balls at the highest point and uses his size to his advantage. Turner does not. Thomas is one of the best blocking WRs I have seen come out of college in a long time, Turner is not. I know it's just a matter of opinion, but I feel Thomas has that 'it" factor. I may be wrong, but if Miami could get him in the third I would be very happy come draft days.

justdev7
12-31-2009, 04:35 PM
Dont we have a 6'5" 220lb WR on our Roster... how's he doing?



We do but everyone has always known that Patrick Tuner has trouble getting separation. Thomas doesn't have that problem but I understand what you're getting at.

justdev7
12-31-2009, 04:39 PM
Thomas will run in the 4.5-4.6 range. Funny thing is if you watch Thomas play his "football" speed sure seems faster than that.

That's the first thing I thought when I watched some of his highlights. In that youtube video check out the TD catch against Miami, he catches the ball slows down to stay in bounds and then accelerates right past another DB that had an easy angle to knock him out of bounds. It shows great acceleration as well as speed.

PATSSUCK
12-31-2009, 04:51 PM
IMO

Dez Bryant
Golden Tate
Demaryius Thomas
Damian Williams
Arrelious Benn
Danario Alexander
Brandon Lafell
Mardy Gilyard
Dezmon Briscoe


Wow, there is actually a very good selection this year...

If we get Dez Bryant or Mcclain, I may burst into tears. lol :hi5:

baseballcb95
12-31-2009, 04:58 PM
If we get Dez Bryant or Mcclain, I may burst into tears. lol :hi5:

Same here!

OrlandoFin
12-31-2009, 07:13 PM
That's the first thing I thought when I watched some of his highlights. In that youtube video check out the TD catch against Miami, he catches the ball slows down to stay in bounds and then accelerates right past another DB that had an easy angle to knock him out of bounds. It shows great acceleration as well as speed.

In 9 games this year he has a reception for more than 50 yards, and in each of his last 3 games he has a TD catch 70+ yards. The stop watch may say one thing, but the guys on the field may tell you something else. Now with his size and YAC yards, he's ideal for a west coast style of offense, but IMO he's just a good football player and you can ALWAYS find a way for those to fit your style.

miami234ever
12-31-2009, 07:53 PM
I think when our pick comes in the 2nd round, either Thomas or Benn will be there and I hope we select one of them. But, Demaryius Thomas is something else. The problem is, every pick this year will really have to count if no new CBA gets done since there will be minimal free agent movement without a new CBA.

mmikel30
12-31-2009, 08:02 PM
I stared this very same thread a few days ago with link from you tube ! what's the deal ?

mmikel30
12-31-2009, 08:04 PM
We do but everyone has always known that Patrick Tuner has trouble getting separation. Thomas doesn't have that problem but I understand what you're getting at.your crazy if you can't see star written all over thomas ! I never saw anything special with turner.

justdev7
01-02-2010, 11:42 AM
I stared this very same thread a few days ago with link from you tube ! what's the deal ?

Sorry didn't see it

ckparrothead
01-02-2010, 01:53 PM
The thing you have to love about Bebe Thomas is his raw physicality. He does everything physical. He runs physically. He blocks physically. He reaches out and catches the ball physically.

He comes out of the draft completely pro-ready as a blocker. He has it all there. He cares about it. He knocks DBs backward instead of just tying them up. He keeps his arms locked and extended, keeps his feet moving, and he has a good eye in looking for work. He will hustle to make blocks where 95% of the other receivers would be jogging it up, knowing that his block may (and has) resulted in touchdown that otherwise wouldn't have happened. He has a good sense of what is and is not legal. He'll go and throw himself to the ground, cutting a defensive back, when others wouldn't consider it necessary. He'll even come in and make a seal block on a big defensive end.

The problem is when you really look, though he hasn't necessarily had issues creating separation at the college level, the level of competition argument is a strong one. The speed of the players he's faced is not NFL speed. Can he create separation against a guy with 4.4 speed? Because that will be the norm at the next level.

If you watch his game against Mississippi State some time, there are good examples of this. On one really long catch, he runs by a corner who tried to hand him off to a safety, who happens to not be there. He's wide open. Of course, Nesbitt underthrows the thing, forcing Bebe to slow up considerably and give everyone the chance to catch up. By the time he's caught the ball and begins accelerating for the end zone, the linebacker K.J. Wilson is a few yards behind him running full bore. Bebe started with enough space where if he's a faster player, the 6'4" and 250+ lbs Wilson just does not catch up. I can't imagine K.J. is much faster than a 4.7 guy. But, Wilson did catch up and he prevented the touchdown. With a completely broken coverage like that, IMO you expect a touchdown, and even though Nesbitt more than did his part with the underthrow, Bebe's lack of speed did the rest.

So it's tough. You know, Brandon Marshall and Marques Colston are both more like 4.5x speed players. And in particular, Bebe reminds me a LOT of Brandon Marshall. Marshall seems to have gotten faster in the NFL, lost some weight. Bebe might have to take the same route.

TedSlimmJr
01-02-2010, 02:15 PM
The thing you have to love about Bebe Thomas is his raw physicality. He does everything physical. He runs physically. He blocks physically. He reaches out and catches the ball physically.

He comes out of the draft completely pro-ready as a blocker. He has it all there. He cares about it. He knocks DBs backward instead of just tying them up. He keeps his arms locked and extended, keeps his feet moving, and he has a good eye in looking for work. He will hustle to make blocks where 95% of the other receivers would be jogging it up, knowing that his block may (and has) resulted in touchdown that otherwise wouldn't have happened. He has a good sense of what is and is not legal. He'll go and throw himself to the ground, cutting a defensive back, when others wouldn't consider it necessary. He'll even come in and make a seal block on a big defensive end.

The problem is when you really look, though he hasn't necessarily had issues creating separation at the college level, the level of competition argument is a strong one. The speed of the players he's faced is not NFL speed. Can he create separation against a guy with 4.4 speed? Because that will be the norm at the next level.

If you watch his game against Mississippi State some time, there are good examples of this. On one really long catch, he runs by a corner who tried to hand him off to a safety, who happens to not be there. He's wide open. Of course, Nesbitt underthrows the thing, forcing Bebe to slow up considerably and give everyone the chance to catch up. By the time he's caught the ball and begins accelerating for the end zone, the linebacker K.J. Wilson is a few yards behind him running full bore. Bebe started with enough space where if he's a faster player, the 6'4" and 250+ lbs Wilson just does not catch up. I can't imagine K.J. is much faster than a 4.7 guy. But, Wilson did catch up and he prevented the touchdown. With a completely broken coverage like that, IMO you expect a touchdown, and even though Nesbitt more than did his part with the underthrow, Bebe's lack of speed did the rest.

So it's tough. You know, Brandon Marshall and Marques Colston are both more like 4.5x speed players. And in particular, Bebe reminds me a LOT of Brandon Marshall. Marshall seems to have gotten faster in the NFL, lost some weight. Bebe might have to take the same route.


*K.J. Wright*

..and I know exactly which play you're talking about....and while it's a good observation....I actually viewed it more as a credit to Wright....lol

In my opinion he'd definitely be one of the more interesting DE/OLB transition prospects should he declare......and easily one of the more interesting one's to keep an eye on next year if he stays...

I really like this kid....he's relentless and I love his motor and effort...and it's reflective in his production and when you watch him and pay attention to him....kid's going to be a good player....Pernell McPhee as well...

And I tend to agree with you on Thomas and the Marshall/Colston comparisons....once Bebe loses some of his bebe fat....

ckparrothead
01-02-2010, 05:53 PM
Hah, Wilson, Wright, no difference to me.

It was definitely a credit to Wright though and he's actually a surprisingly good prospect for the 2011 draft...but have heard no real indication that he's considering coming out.

I was just communicating that while there are things I absolutely adore about Bebe Thomas, there are legitimate things on the tape that make you pause and wonder if he's fast enough.

hooshoops
01-02-2010, 06:01 PM
say bebe comes out and runs a mid 4.5 forty at the combine...will the concerns about him being able to get open at the next level be nullified???

if he runs a 4.7 i'd be very nervous

i personally think he looks like a mid 4.5's guy to me

greasyObnoxious
01-02-2010, 06:07 PM
say bebe comes out and runs a mid 4.5 forty at the combine...will the concerns about him being able to get open at the next level be nullified???

if he runs a 4.7 i'd be very nervous

i personally think he looks like a mid 4.5's guy to me

i'd like to see a good three-cone drill time as well. 4.5 tells us he has some straight-line speed. a good cone time tells us he can cut and accelerate.

hooshoops
01-02-2010, 06:10 PM
i'd like to see a good three-cone drill time as well. 4.5 tells us he has some straight-line speed. a good cone time tells us he can cut and accelerate.

that's a good point...very good

but due to that massive size i'd be a bit more lenient with his 3 cone...but yeah they both are important

one thing that i haven't got to see a lot of with bebe is him creating separation in and out of cuts and running more nfl routes than go and out routes cause that's all they pretty much run with him at ga tech so yeah that 3 cone i think is gonna matter a lot for him

greasyObnoxious
01-02-2010, 06:16 PM
that's a good point...very good

but due to that massive size i'd be a bit more lenient with his 3 cone...but yeah they both are important

one thing that i haven't got to see a lot of with bebe is him creating separation in and out of cuts and running more nfl routes than go and out routes cause that's all they pretty much run with him at ga tech so yeah that 3 cone i think is gonna matter a lot for him

that's true. he won't post a 6.57 like Harry Douglas did two years ago. Marques Colston ran a 6.96. anything under 7 seconds is functional IMO. Eddie Royal even ran a 7.07 and he's doing alright.

hooshoops
01-02-2010, 06:22 PM
damn eddie royal ran a 7.07....i never would have thought that watching him play for the broncos or at va tech

what did hartline run???

greasyObnoxious
01-02-2010, 06:23 PM
damn eddie royal ran a 7.07....i never would have thought that watching him play for the broncos or at va tech

what did hartline run???

Hartline ran a 6.65

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=56879&draftyear=2009&genpos=WR

hooshoops
01-02-2010, 06:25 PM
Hartline ran a 6.65

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=56879&draftyear=2009&genpos=WR

i knew it was very good and i really liked it when i saw we drafted him...

TedSlimmJr
01-02-2010, 06:34 PM
The other thing about Eddie Royal was that he put up 225 pounds 24 times on the bench press....which was first for WR's and more than quite a few lineman...

He's so strong he can defeat press coverage almost in an instant even if his technique is sloppy....

ckparrothead
01-02-2010, 07:12 PM
IMO the L-Drill (three cone) is not something to be isolated and stacked, used as a method to rate guys' quickness.

In my experience there's too much white noise. Too much variation. You see a guy go out at the Combine and run a 7.2 and then he'll go to his pro day and run a 6.9. Even in the same running and in the same place, you might see a guy run a 7.2 and then a 7.0 on his second running. That much disparity from a single player from one running to another is just too wide a variance for me to place too much importance on the measurement.

What I think about the L-Drill is that some players practice it really well and get strong coaching on it, other players don't, and so it's often not really apples to apples like a 40 yard dash is (and there are notable issues with that as well).

I try and view three cone drill times in combination with other measurements. For instance, on another board I did a big study of free agent linebackers to be, guys that have started significantly this year, played well, etc...and I included in the study other guys as reference, guys that are just outstanding linebackers but won't necessarily be free agents. I used a bunch of Pro Football Focus statistics to show things like how often they make a tackle as a percentage of their total snaps, how often they miss a tackle when they get a chance at it, how often they make what PFF deems to be a "stop" (offensive failure), how often they're targeted in coverage, yards per attempt, yards after catch, etc. I included for the heck of it their Combine measurements and current listings, just as sort of a reference.

What struck me is how half of the linebackers, who have risen to the top to become significant players, starters, even dominant players...had fantastic cone times. But, half of them really had pretty terrible ones. On the other hand, a bunch of them had fantastic vertical measurements. And then a bunch of them had sort of blah measurements. It usually seemed to be one or the other.

Basically you can't rate based on those measurements, is the main thing to take away. Too much variance at the individual player level.