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Dolphins9954
01-04-2010, 04:44 PM
Buddhism is inferior to Christianity when it comes to forgiveness of sins, according to Fox News pundit Brit Hume. Tiger Woods should turn his back on Buddhism and become a Christian to be forgiven for cheating on his wife, Hume told Fox News' Chris Wallace Sunday.

"The extent to which he can recover seems to me depends on his faith," said Hume. "He is said to be a Buddhist. I don't think that faith offers the kind of redemption and forgiveness offered by the Christian faith. My message to Tiger is, 'Tiger turn to the Christian faith and you can make a total recovery and be a great example to the world."

Woods is the most famous among several American celebrity Buddhists. Richard Gere, Herbie Hancock, Steven Seagal, Leonard Cohen, Tina Turner and Orlando Bloom were recently called the most famous Buddhists in the world. The list goes so far as to argue Tiger Woods is more famous than the Dalai Lama himself.

Hume's statements are particularly ironic given the recent sex scandals encountered by an assortment of Christian politicians.

http://rawstory.com/2009//01/brit-hume-tiger-woods-must-become-christian/


Shut the hell up Brit. Do we really need to make a list of Christians that have infidelity and sex problems?

Dolphan7
01-04-2010, 05:56 PM
http://rawstory.com/2009//01/brit-hume-tiger-woods-must-become-christian/


Shut the hell up Brit. Do we really need to make a list of Christians that have infidelity and sex problems?What does that have to do with anything?

LouPhinFan
01-04-2010, 06:23 PM
I think you have the wrong forum.

JCane
01-04-2010, 06:30 PM
http://rawstory.com/2009//01/brit-hume-tiger-woods-must-become-christian/


Shut the hell up Brit. Do we really need to make a list of Christians that have infidelity and sex problems?

Why? When you're Christian this stuff is ok. I agree. Tiger must become a Christian to be forgiven. He needs to find Jesus.

Amen.

Vaark
01-04-2010, 08:09 PM
http://rawstory.com/2009//01/brit-hume-tiger-woods-must-become-christian/


Shut the hell up Brit. Do we really need to make a list of Christians that have infidelity and sex problems?


Hey bro.

So I was looking thru the FH directory and saw that the last post in "Politics" was from JCane, someone I consider one of the smarter, more astute and level-headed posters around here. Naturally, curiosity drew me in to check out what he had to say and on which side of the political Maginot Line he stood.

But now over here in this strange, polarized section (and that's why I like to stay in the main forum and call out anyone who tries to politicize it thru avis or sigs, no matter what side they're on), I thought I'd look at the thread that drew JCane away from ranting about Randy Shannon, and saw your Obama/Imperialist sig. Man, that's pretty harsh and inflamatory!!!!... but I kind of dig it.

Since I love my graphics so much, I thought I'd go into the Vaark archives to retrieve and throw my own Obama version up here in case you like it so much you'd want to add it to your sig. (Incidentally, a warning I've always tried to impart to my son when he was young: remember, right or wrong, who you consort with says a lot about you!)

Hope you enjoy it too:





Pic removed due to innappropriateness


(http://www.e-imagesite.com/Files2/obama%20palin%20lovin%202289948.jpg)

myke1072
01-04-2010, 08:20 PM
I think that at the end of the day our religion is our choice. I think that for a human being to say someone will go to Hell if they do not take certain steps is rather ignorant. I do not believe that the Bible tells us the "full story". I believe that it is misinterpreted by as many (or more) "Christians" as it is by non-Christians. I am one of the only people that I know who has read the entire New Testament, yet I know numerous people who preach to everyone like they have read all of the Bible. I have developed my own personal beliefs based on what I have read, not what someone taught me. I would encourage others to do the same. i find it rather disappointing how many people in this world spend so much time preaching to others on what they should do when they themselves act so hypocritically. I am not sure that I have ever met a person who truly understands the spirit of the Bible. Just my two cents.

It is laughable how many people pass judgment on Tiger Woods yet think they know something about forgiveness.

Dolphan7
01-04-2010, 08:38 PM
Why? When you're Christian this stuff is ok. I agree. Tiger must become a Christian to be forgiven. He needs to find Jesus.

Amen.Actually...this stuff is not ok...at all. Don't know where that came from, but it is wrong.

Dolphan7
01-04-2010, 08:44 PM
I think that at the end of the day our religion is our choice. I think that for a human being to say someone will go to Hell if they do not take certain steps is rather ignorant. I do not believe that the Bible tells us the "full story". I believe that it is misinterpreted by as many (or more) "Christians" as it is by non-Christians. I am one of the only people that I know who has read the entire New Testament, yet I know numerous people who preach to everyone like they have read all of the Bible. I have developed my own personal beliefs based on what I have read, not what someone taught me. I would encourage others to do the same. i find it rather disappointing how many people in this world spend so much time preaching to others on what they should do when they themselves act so hypocritically. I am not sure that I have ever met a person who truly understands the spirit of the Bible. Just my two cents.

It is laughable how many people pass judgment on Tiger Woods yet think they know something about forgiveness.Just one question.....


Your comment....


I do not believe that the Bible tells us the "full story". I believe that it is misinterpreted by as many (or more) "Christians" as it is by non-Christians....How do you know you are not doing the exact same thing?

JCane
01-04-2010, 09:15 PM
Actually...this stuff is not ok...at all. Don't know where that came from, but it is wrong.

I completely agree. And it really irritates the hell out of me that this is "how it is." Believe me, I live in the Bible Belt. I have for a looooong time. The belt actually buckles right here in South Carolina. I've seen this exact same stuff go down in my backyard time after time after time and as long as you mention Jesus and all of that default Religion speech, you get a pass. It's ok. You're a man of Christ now and you know better.

LOL

The Southern region sells more Pornography than any other region in the country but it's also the most religious. I think the hypocrisy that exists here in the South is ridiculous. I can essentially do whatever I want no matter how vile or wrong it might be and then go find Jesus and I'm an ok guy. I can be a complete drunk ******* for six days in a week as long as I show up and shake hands with the Pastor at the Church on Sunday morning. That's how things are here. I can't believe some of the crap people here in the South do and then show up to Church on Sunday.

Dolphins9954
01-04-2010, 09:55 PM
What does that have to do with anything?


If this was a religous show or channel like the 700 club or something along those lines. Then I wouldn't have a problem with this comment. But this came from a news channel. A number one rated news channel at that. Brit Hume was way out of line and this really wasn't the place for a comment like that. Imagine if Hume was a muslim and said that Tiger should convert to Islam and accept Muhammad as the prophet in order to be forgiven. The fallout would be amazing. This is a news channel. Not a sermon.

Dolphins9954
01-04-2010, 09:56 PM
Hey bro.

So I was looking thru the FH directory and saw that the last post in "Politics" was from JCane, someone I consider one of the smarter, more astute and level-headed posters around here. Naturally, curiosity drew me in to check out what he had to say and on which side of the political Maginot Line he stood.

But now over here in this strange, polarized section (and that's why I like to stay in the main forum and call out anyone who tries to politicize it thru avis or sigs, no matter what side they're on), I thought I'd look at the thread that drew JCane away from ranting about Randy Shannon, and saw your Obama/Imperialist sig. Man, that's pretty harsh and inflamatory!!!!... but I kind of dig it.

Since I love my graphics so much, I thought I'd go into the Vaark archives to retrieve and throw my own Obama version up here in case you like it so much you'd want to add it to your sig. (Incidentally, a warning I've always tried to impart to my son when he was young: remember, right or wrong, who you consort with says a lot about you!)

Hope you enjoy it too:





Pic removed due to innappropriateness


(http://www.e-imagesite.com/Files2/obama%20palin%20lovin%202289948.jpg)


PM it to me. It got removed.

Dolphan7
01-05-2010, 12:09 AM
I completely agree. And it really irritates the hell out of me that this is "how it is." Believe me, I live in the Bible Belt. I have for a looooong time. The belt actually buckles right here in South Carolina. I've seen this exact same stuff go down in my backyard time after time after time and as long as you mention Jesus and all of that default Religion speech, you get a pass. It's ok. You're a man of Christ now and you know better.

LOL

The Southern region sells more Pornography than any other region in the country but it's also the most religious. I think the hypocrisy that exists here in the South is ridiculous. I can essentially do whatever I want no matter how vile or wrong it might be and then go find Jesus and I'm an ok guy. I can be a complete drunk ******* for six days in a week as long as I show up and shake hands with the Pastor at the Church on Sunday morning. That's how things are here. I can't believe some of the crap people here in the South do and then show up to Church on Sunday.LOL. I know. I see it too. It is everywhere. And it is because of a false doctrine being taught in many churches...Southern Baptist is the prime one....called "Once saved, always saved" or called perseverance of the saints, or eternal security doctrine, or pre-destination. It basically says that God has pre-destined those who will enter the Kingdom of Heaven and once you are in....you are in no matter what...so with that type of belief....false belief...you get people who drink 6 days a week, go to church on Sunday and think that all is well. All is not well and these people are in for a very rude awakening.

If you want to ruffle some feathers in your neck of the woods...research and educate yourself on the arguments against this false doctrine. Google is a great resource. There are many verses that clearly contradict this false doctrine.

My favorite is Heb 10:26


Heb 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

Dolphan7
01-05-2010, 12:16 AM
If this was a religous show or channel like the 700 club or something along those lines. Then I wouldn't have a problem with this comment. But this came from a news channel. A number one rated news channel at that. Brit Hume was way out of line and this really wasn't the place for a comment like that. Imagine if Hume was a muslim and said that Tiger should convert to Islam and accept Muhammad as the prophet in order to be forgiven. The fallout would be amazing. This is a news channel. Not a sermon.It's a free country dude...Bill of Rights....Constitution.....It was also an opinion segment.....not news of the day type of reporting. I think as an opinion it was appropriate.

Dolphins9954
01-05-2010, 12:24 AM
It's a free country dude...Bill of Rights....Constitution.....It was also an opinion segment.....not news of the day type of reporting. I think as an opinion it was appropriate.


It was Fox News Sunday with Mike Wallace. Then again you are right. Fox News is more about opinions than news.

HansMojo
01-05-2010, 01:44 AM
I completely agree. And it really irritates the hell out of me that this is "how it is." Believe me, I live in the Bible Belt. I have for a looooong time. The belt actually buckles right here in South Carolina. I've seen this exact same stuff go down in my backyard time after time after time and as long as you mention Jesus and all of that default Religion speech, you get a pass. It's ok. You're a man of Christ now and you know better.

LOL

The Southern region sells more Pornography than any other region in the country but it's also the most religious. I think the hypocrisy that exists here in the South is ridiculous. I can essentially do whatever I want no matter how vile or wrong it might be and then go find Jesus and I'm an ok guy. I can be a complete drunk ******* for six days in a week as long as I show up and shake hands with the Pastor at the Church on Sunday morning. That's how things are here. I can't believe some of the crap people here in the South do and then show up to Church on Sunday.
The type of attitude/behavior you describe(displayed by many who claim Christianity as their religion) is extremely frustrating and as D7 pointed out, is not the way it is supposed to work. There is a difference between true repentance and trying to work a system. People who are simply trying to work the system will be judged accordingly by God. Further, if any laws were broken, repentance does not mean they should expect to avoid whatever legal consequences there might be for their actions. Quite the contrary.

But how are we, sinners ourselves who cannot judge the heart, supposed to react to brothers and sisters who sin but then claim to have repented and desire forgiveness? IMHO, we must not attempt to judge their heart, but we do not need to tolerate open sin either. For example, lets say a guy cheats on his wife and then tries to bring the girls he's fooling around with to church with him. This would not be acceptable. Someone who was truly repentant would obviously not do this. A truly repentant person would try everything possible to reconcile with his wife.

But let's say he tries to reconcile with his wife, but his wife refuses to take him back (can't blame her for that), are we to forever ostracize him from church fellowship? Of course not. But are there limits for repeat offenders? Sure, but churches take these cases up on an individual basis. The church is tasked to protect the body and this includes throwing someone out who is openly living in sin.

rev kev
01-05-2010, 11:30 AM
The type of attitude/behavior you describe(displayed by many who claim Christianity as their religion) is extremely frustrating and as D7 pointed out, is not the way it is supposed to work. There is a difference between true repentance and trying to work a system. People who are simply trying to work the system will be judged accordingly by God. Further, if any laws were broken, repentance does not mean they should expect to avoid whatever legal consequences there might be for their actions. Quite the contrary.

But how are we, sinners ourselves who cannot judge the heart, supposed to react to brothers and sisters who sin but then claim to have repented and desire forgiveness? IMHO, we must not attempt to judge their heart, but we do not need to tolerate open sin either. For example, lets say a guy cheats on his wife and then tries to bring the girls he's fooling around with to church with him. This would not be acceptable. Someone who was truly repentant would obviously not do this. A truly repentant person would try everything possible to reconcile with his wife.

But let's say he tries to reconcile with his wife, but his wife refuses to take him back (can't blame her for that), are we to forever ostracize him from church fellowship? Of course not. But are there limits for repeat offenders? Sure, but churches take these cases up on an individual basis. The church is tasked to protect the body and this includes throwing someone out who is openly living in sin.


Great post and I guess "God though full of grace will not be mocked"

GoonBoss
01-05-2010, 11:55 AM
Not really a big deal. Brit is a Christian, so, he'll repeat the mantra and the dogma. I think he's trying to be profound in saying "forgiveness".

I mean, he's wrong, since his belief system, in IMO is fatally flawed, but, according to *it* he's right.

I could not possibly care less about Tiger cheating, so, AFAIC, he's forgiven already.

Dolphins9954
01-05-2010, 12:15 PM
Buddhists to Brit Hume: We forgive you



Ex-Fox newsman Brit Hume is getting a drubbing -- a gentle, peaceful drubbing -- on the blogs today from Buddhists who take issue with his slam on their beliefs.

In case you missed it, Hume called on Tiger Woods to turn away from Buddhism (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/Religion/post/2010/01/fox-news-tiger-woods-brit-hume-forgiveness-evangelical/1?loc=interstitialskip) toward Christianity for forgiveness and a chance to rehabilitate his reputation in the world -- as if conversion were a get-out-of-scandal-jail free pass.

Webmonkees tweeted: " It is less useful to contemplate the hypocrisy of Fox News, as collecting the dew from beneath each grain of sand."
Kyle Lovett, blogging as The Reformed Buddhist, writes (http://www.thereformedbuddhist.com/2010/01/brit-hume-speaks-out-against-buddhist.html):

Could Hume get away with saying something like this about Jewish people or Black People or the Muslim Faith? You betcha he couldn't. Why should he be able to skate away scott free when speaking about Buddhists?
Buddhist and journalist Barbara Hoetsu O'Brien gets down to dharma. She writes (http://buddhism.about.com/b/2010/01/04/lets-forgive-brit-hume.htm):

I don't like to point out others' faults, but given the record I would think Christians would show a little more humility about offering advice to the sexually wayward. As Jesus once said, let those who have never sinned throw the first stones (John 8:7).

However, Mr. Hume is right, in a sense, that Buddhism doesn't offer redemption and forgiveness in the same way Christianity does. Buddhism has no concept of sin; therefore, redemption and forgiveness in the Christian sense is meaningless in Buddhism. Forgiveness is important, but it is approached differently in Buddhism...
She points out:

... the practice of metta, loving kindness, is essential in Buddhism. Metta is extended to all beings, including those who have wronged us -- even Brit Hume -- and also to ourselves.
For a step by step on forgiveness, Buddhism style (http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/forgiveness.htm), see Buddhanet's basics which counsels:

Have forgiveness in your heart for anything you think you've done wrong . Forgive yourself for all the past omissions and commissions. They are long gone. Understand that you were a different person and this one is forgiving that one that you were. Feel that forgiveness filling you and enveloping you with a sense of warmth and ease.


http://content.usatoday.com/topics/post/People/Athletes/Golf/Tiger+Woods/13488.blog/1





In Buddhism (http://www.finheaven.com/wiki/Buddhism), forgiveness is seen as a practice to prevent harmful thoughts from causing havoc on one’s mental well-being. Buddhism recognizes that feelings of hatred and ill-will leave a lasting effect on our mind karma (http://www.finheaven.com/wiki/Karma). Instead, Buddhism encourages the cultivation of thoughts that leave a wholesome effect. "In contemplating the law of karma, we realize that it is not a matter of seeking revenge but of practicing metta and forgiveness, for the victimizer is, truly, the most unfortunate of all.

When resentments have already arisen, the Buddhist view is to calmly proceed to release them by going back to their roots. Buddhism centers on release from delusion and suffering through meditation and receiving insight into the nature of reality. Buddhism questions the reality of the passions that make forgiveness necessary as well as the reality of the objects of those passions. "If we haven’t forgiven, we keep creating an identity around our pain, and that is what is reborn. That is what suffers."

Buddhism places much emphasis on the concepts of Mettā (http://www.finheaven.com/wiki/Mett%C4%81) (loving kindness), karuna (http://www.finheaven.com/wiki/Karuna) (compassion), mudita (http://www.finheaven.com/wiki/Mudita) (sympathetic joy), and upekkhā (http://www.finheaven.com/wiki/Upekkh%C4%81) (equanimity), as a means to avoiding resentments in the first place. These reflections are used to understand the context of suffering in the world, both our own and the suffering of others.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgiveness

myke1072
01-05-2010, 05:05 PM
Just one question.....


Your comment....

...How do you know you are not doing the exact same thing?

I could be. One thing I can say for certain though is that I read it and developed my own opinions of the meaning of what I read. I did not blindly follow someone else's interpretation. Most people cannot say that.

Dolphan7
01-05-2010, 07:21 PM
I could be. One thing I can say for certain though is that I read it and developed my own opinions of the meaning of what I read. I did not blindly follow someone else's interpretation. Most people cannot say that.Well....I am impressed that you took the time to read the bible and try to understand it.

But....it does not matter that you, or anyone else for that matter, have read the bible and have your own interpretations of it, or others who choose to accept still other peoples interpretation of it.....if the interpretations are wrong. The bible isn't meant to be understood depending on each individuals interpretation. It is meant to be understood as an absolute truth....to be interpreted only one way. The authors of the bible only meant one thing when they, with divine guidance, wrote down the words. It was not and is not supposed to have several interpretations. I know that they exist, and that is the work of Satan himself for sure, but that wasn't the intent originally. Biblical scholars have done a pretty good job of examining the texts and deriving the true meanings of the words. It isn't easy to do....but it isn't that difficult either.

Keep researching and studying. I would encourage you to not attempt to define the meaning of the bible based on your own understanding. Nor would I encourage others to so the same...lest we end up with billions of differing "opinions". Many have done it over the years.....and we have seen the result of that.



PR 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.

myke1072
01-05-2010, 08:26 PM
As human beings we are in no way perfect. As a result, no one will perfectly understand the meaning of the Bible. All we have is our own interpretation and/or the interpretations of others. In order to understand the Bible we have to go with something. If I chose to go with someone else's interpretation then what about that person? Is he or she correct? That person, in turn, has his or her own understanding of the Bible. Should he or she not lean on his own understanding? Not trying to get too philosophical here, but we can only believe in our own understanding because the verse that you are quoting would in fact make everyone incorrect if you take it literally. Don't get me wrong...I do listen to the interpretations of others, but I will only accept it if it makes more sense than my own understanding. A lot of people just go to church and believe every interpretation that is preached to them. Not me. I'll listen, but only to the extent of making me think more deeply about a topic to search for a greater understanding of my own.

I have also read about other religions and found some similarities as to how we are to conduct ourselves. These similarities are the things that I take most seriously.

JCane
01-05-2010, 08:29 PM
So basically the Bible is just one big hit or miss theory?

Dolphan7
01-05-2010, 08:43 PM
So basically the Bible is just one big hit or miss theory?When it comes to prophetic texts that have yet to happen......yes.

HansMojo
01-06-2010, 02:57 AM
As human beings we are in no way perfect. As a result, no one will perfectly understand the meaning of the Bible. All we have is our own interpretation and/or the interpretations of others. In order to understand the Bible we have to go with something. If I chose to go with someone else's interpretation then what about that person? Is he or she correct? That person, in turn, has his or her own understanding of the Bible. Should he or she not lean on his own understanding? Not trying to get too philosophical here, but we can only believe in our own understanding because the verse that you are quoting would in fact make everyone incorrect if you take it literally. Don't get me wrong...I do listen to the interpretations of others, but I will only accept it if it makes more sense than my own understanding. A lot of people just go to church and believe every interpretation that is preached to them. Not me. I'll listen, but only to the extent of making me think more deeply about a topic to search for a greater understanding of my own.

I have also read about other religions and found some similarities as to how we are to conduct ourselves. These similarities are the things that I take most seriously.

I agree with a lot of what you say here. We are imperfect (to the extreme) and our understanding of the Bible is definitely not complete. There are so many false interpretations of scripture out there and who's to say which scholar got it right when they certainly don't all agree about everything. I personally like reading many different commentaries and using lots of different translations when I do any serious study.

But thankfully, the Holy Spirit will lead us to truth if we seek His help and allow Him to do so. I don't think any of us will figure out everything in our lifetimes, but the Holy Spirit will certainly lead us in the right direction if we truly remain open to Him. Further, I don't believe we are being judged based on our theological test scores.

However, I also agree with D7 in that there is a correct interpretation to every passage and I think our job is to faithfully and sincerely try to figure out what it is. We should be willing to learn and grow in our understanding and it sounds like that is what you are trying to do. Good for you. However, I also believe there are lots of passages in the Bible, that while the authors may have only intended one meaning, that a specific passage can teach many different lessons. IMHO, the Bible was inspired by God in such a way that it could be relevant to all people for all time even if a specific writer was addressing a specific issue facing a specific group of people at some specific time. Further, we may learn something completely new from a passage that the generation that went before us never even considered and this may be because our spiritual needs are different than the previous generation. God reveals different things to different people at different times. IMHO, we should always seek to understand the original intent the writer had, but also try to figure out how it is relevant to us today.

Juma
01-20-2010, 05:56 PM
I think that at the end of the day our religion is our choice. I think that for a human being to say someone will go to Hell if they do not take certain steps is rather ignorant. I do not believe that the Bible tells us the "full story". I believe that it is misinterpreted by as many (or more) "Christians" as it is by non-Christians. I am one of the only people that I know who has read the entire New Testament, yet I know numerous people who preach to everyone like they have read all of the Bible. I have developed my own personal beliefs based on what I have read, not what someone taught me. I would encourage others to do the same. i find it rather disappointing how many people in this world spend so much time preaching to others on what they should do when they themselves act so hypocritically. I am not sure that I have ever met a person who truly understands the spirit of the Bible. Just my two cents.

It is laughable how many people pass judgment on Tiger Woods yet think they know something about forgiveness.

I haven't read the bible but this post does make sense.

GoonBoss
01-20-2010, 08:45 PM
I haven't read the bible but this post does make sense.

What Brit says is more or less right as Christians see it. We are all sinners,and Woods must repent from his sins to be forgiven.

That's simply right in terms of the most simplistic dogma. It's as simple as a core belief as there is to Christianity.

The question is; Does Tiger Woods feel the need to be forgiven for his sins as determined by Christianity?

Juma
01-20-2010, 11:50 PM
What Brit says is more or less right as Christians see it. We are all sinners,and Woods must repent from his sins to be forgiven.

That's simply right in terms of the most simplistic dogma. It's as simple as a core belief as there is to Christianity.

The question is; Does Tiger Woods feel the need to be forgiven for his sins as determined by Christianity?

I'm not a Christian and not only are we all sinners but we're hypocrites too. I know plenty of, so called Christians, who lie and are deceiving. Wasn't our last president Christian? I guess it don't matter cause he is one person. I don't care for Woods at all but I do agree with most of what myke posted. He is being judged by a majority unfortunately. I wonder what religion those hookers are. Don't know if I answered your question but it's a good opinion right?

HansMojo
01-21-2010, 12:04 AM
What Brit says is more or less right as Christians see it. We are all sinners,and Woods must repent from his sins to be forgiven.

That's simply right in terms of the most simplistic dogma. It's as simple as a core belief as there is to Christianity.

The question is; Does Tiger Woods f

I wouldn't personally look to Brit for theological guidance, but I do like your rephrasing.

And yeah, I agree that the real question is, does Tiger feel the need to be forgiven for his sins as determined by Christianity.

HansMojo
01-21-2010, 12:10 AM
I'm not a Christian and not only are we all sinners but we're hypocrites too. I know plenty of, so called Christians, who lie and are deceiving. Wasn't our last president Christian? I guess it don't matter cause he is one person. I don't care for Woods at all but I do agree with most of what myke posted. He is being judged by a majority unfortunately. I wonder what religion those hookers are. Don't know if I answered your question but it's a good opinion right?
Sadly, you're right that we are all hypocrites (some more than others but hypocrites none the less). Repentance is a lifelong journey...but hopefully we make some progress a long the way. Only true repentance is meaningful to God...IMHO.

GoonBoss
01-21-2010, 01:04 AM
I'm not a Christian and not only are we all sinners but we're hypocrites too. I know plenty of, so called Christians, who lie and are deceiving. Wasn't our last president Christian? I guess it don't matter cause he is one person. I don't care for Woods at all but I do agree with most of what myke posted. He is being judged by a majority unfortunately. I wonder what religion those hookers are. Don't know if I answered your question but it's a good opinion right?

The question I posed was simply one that was sort of in the air. I have no idea if Woods is a Christian or not. I was simply saying Brit Hume is asking the question in terms of being a Christian. Nothing he's saying is wrong, or bad really. In reality it's just more hot air.

How you, or I feel about Tiger Woods at the end of the day doesn't mean anything. As far as I'm concerned, he can **** every Perkins waitress he can get his hands on. Doesn't trouble me in the least. He's being judged by society, the same society that built him, and, will later build him back up.

The only think Tiger needs to feel sorry about or be forgiven for ultimately rests inside him. I'm not a Christian, but I've forgiven Tiger. Actually, I never really blamed him for anything. I could not care less what Golfers do.

GoonBoss
01-21-2010, 01:06 AM
I wouldn't personally look to Brit for theological guidance, but I do like your rephrasing.

And yeah, I agree that the real question is, does Tiger feel the need to be forgiven for his sins as determined by Christianity.

That's all my point was. Everyone's coming down on Brit Hume...All he's doing is sort of packageing up Christian reasoning, which is completely plausible and right to him and many others.

HansMojo
01-21-2010, 01:34 AM
That's all my point was. Everyone's coming down on Brit Hume...All he's doing is sort of packageing up Christian reasoning, which is completely plausible and right to him and many others.
To be honest, his statement rubbed me the wrong way and I'm on the God squad as Pagan used to say. I think the main issue that bugs me is the forum he used. If he'd said it in church, or at a Bible study, or directly to Tiger, etc. it would be one thing, but...I just feel that on a news show, it comes across as inappropriate. For me, the main issue is that I don't think it is going to further the Gospel, but will actually turn people the other direction because it sounds so Christian elitist. That kind of thing always bothers me.

Edit: To clarify, to me it's sort of, kind of (at least a little bit like anyway) how I feel about being an American and how I express that to others. I'm very proud to be an American. I think it is the greatest country in the world. And I can express this in a way that would either piss people off or interest them in learning more about the country that I love (or at least strike up a good conversation). I prefer the latter.

Dolphan7
01-21-2010, 03:41 PM
To be honest, his statement rubbed me the wrong way and I'm on the God squad as Pagan used to say. I think the main issue that bugs me is the forum he used. If he'd said it in church, or at a Bible study, or directly to Tiger, etc. it would be one thing, but...I just feel that on a news show, it comes across as inappropriate. For me, the main issue is that I don't think it is going to further the Gospel, but will actually turn people the other direction because it sounds so Christian elitist. That kind of thing always bothers me.

Edit: To clarify, to me it's sort of, kind of (at least a little bit like anyway) how I feel about being an American and how I express that to others. I'm very proud to be an American. I think it is the greatest country in the world. And I can express this in a way that would either piss people off or interest them in learning more about the country that I love (or at least strike up a good conversation). I prefer the latter.I thought it was strange or him to say what he said on that show. And I have a tendency to agree with you....but....

I also want to applaud people for standing up and speaking of their faith and I don't think we should shun people for that.

So...I have mixed emotions about this.

HansMojo
01-22-2010, 12:36 AM
I thought it was strange or him to say what he said on that show. And I have a tendency to agree with you....but....

I also want to applaud people for standing up and speaking of their faith and I don't think we should shun people for that.

So...I have mixed emotions about this.
I guess for me, while I appreciate very much when people live and speak their faith (and definitely encourage it), I think we need to be conscious of the fact that we can either put up or remove roadblocks on the Gospel path. We can cause people to stumble just as we can help people find Jesus.

I don't shun Brit for his comments, but I wonder if they benefited the choir while doing very little...or worse for everyone else.

Dolphan7
01-22-2010, 11:39 AM
I guess for me, while I appreciate very much when people live and speak their faith (and definitely encourage it), I think we need to be conscious of the fact that we can either put up or remove roadblocks on the Gospel path. We can cause people to stumble just as we can help people find Jesus.

I don't shun Brit for his comments, but I wonder if they benefited the choir while doing very little...or worse for everyone else.Don't know the extent of his comments on the unbelievers. I think the people that would be offended are people that would be offended at anything Christianity.

Now comments by Pat Robertson recently most assuredly turned many people off. This is a much better example of what you are talking about.

HansMojo
01-22-2010, 02:02 PM
Don't know the extent of his comments on the unbelievers. I think the people that would be offended are people that would be offended at anything Christianity.

Now comments by Pat Robertson recently most assuredly turned many people off. This is a much better example of what you are talking about.

I agree that Pat Robertson's comments are more extreme and so they are a clearer example of what I'm talking about. But Brit's comments are still an example of this, though clearly to a lesser degree.

To me, we have to understand that the Gospel itself is going to be offensive in varying degrees to non-believers simply because of the nature of the message. However, we should guard against adding to that because of our presentation or attitude (that people do pick up on). If someone rejects the Gospel because they are rejecting the Gospel, I believe that is between them and God. If someone truly rejects the Gospel because we have unnecessarily thrown up road blocks for them, especially if we have an attitude problem regarding Christ's lost sheep, than we will have to answer to God for that IMHO...though as with any sin, Grace abounds to those who recognize their need for it and seek it out. Anyway, I'm running late so I have to bounce.

Vertical Limit
01-22-2010, 02:18 PM
No surprise there's a topic like this. Nothing against Christians but I have never seen a religion try to recruit so actively like Christians do. And now they're trying to get Tiger Woods in. :lol: It's like joining a military. Can people just leave this guy alone already? It's been two months for god's sake. Letterman's case didn't even reach to this level. /edit Ah my bad, I just saw when the topic was posted.

Dolphan7
01-22-2010, 02:46 PM
I agree that Pat Robertson's comments are more extreme and so they are a clearer example of what I'm talking about. But Brit's comments are still an example of this, though clearly to a lesser degree.

To me, we have to understand that the Gospel itself is going to be offensive in varying degrees to non-believers simply because of the nature of the message. However, we should guard against adding to that because of our presentation or attitude (that people do pick up on). If someone rejects the Gospel because they are rejecting the Gospel, I believe that is between them and God. If someone truly rejects the Gospel because we have unnecessarily thrown up road blocks for them, especially if we have an attitude problem regarding Christ's lost sheep, than we will have to answer to God for that IMHO...though as with any sin, Grace abounds to those who recognize their need for it and seek it out. Anyway, I'm running late so I have to bounce.I agree. Rejecting the Gospel because it is the Gospel is one thing, but rejecting the Gospel because of the messenger, or a wrong message, is entirely different and something all Christians should be aware of.

Juma
01-23-2010, 01:12 AM
Sadly, you're right that we are all hypocrites (some more than others but hypocrites none the less). Repentance is a lifelong journey...but hopefully we make some progress a long the way. Only true repentance is meaningful to God...IMHO.

Yea, I can toast to that.

Juma
01-23-2010, 01:13 AM
The question I posed was simply one that was sort of in the air. I have no idea if Woods is a Christian or not. I was simply saying Brit Hume is asking the question in terms of being a Christian. Nothing he's saying is wrong, or bad really. In reality it's just more hot air.

How you, or I feel about Tiger Woods at the end of the day doesn't mean anything. As far as I'm concerned, he can **** every Perkins waitress he can get his hands on. Doesn't trouble me in the least. He's being judged by society, the same society that built him, and, will later build him back up.

The only think Tiger needs to feel sorry about or be forgiven for ultimately rests inside him. I'm not a Christian, but I've forgiven Tiger. Actually, I never really blamed him for anything. I could not care less what Golfers do.

Ok, you caught me off guard with "The question is". You make some valid points that I agree with.

Vaark
01-23-2010, 11:26 AM
No surprise there's a topic like this. Nothing against Christians but I have never seen a religion try to recruit so actively like Christians do. And now they're trying to get Tiger Woods in. :lol: It's like joining a military. Can people just leave this guy alone already? It's been two months for god's sake. Letterman's case didn't even reach to this level. /edit Ah my bad, I just saw when the topic was posted.

Actually, the Christians recruiting efforts pale by comparison to the Islamics. Christians, who, although in my opinion are as overzealous in certain beliefs as practitioners of any organized religion, more often than not proselytize benignly with a tinge of fear out of their belief that it's only after you see the light and are "saved" you won't go to hell. Islamics on the other hand, especially those funda-Mentals interpret the Koran to believe that every living soul should be converted or if not possible, then eliminated. This heavy-handed approach verging on a holy war is IMO, a lot more oppressively aggressive than any recruitment spin the most devout Christian or even Scientologist for that matter can mount.

Me, I'm laissez-fair all the way and can give a **** what someone does or doesn't do within the privacy of their own lives so long as it doesn't infringe on my own convictions or non-beliefs, or is a societal detriment. Consequently, anyone outside of Tiger's loving friends and family inner circle should just shut their pieholes and mind their business. I find it typical, but funny that very often, the so-called "moralists" who pile on first, frequently politicians from both parties, turn out to be the biggest lie-living hypocrites of them all.

72champagne
01-26-2010, 09:35 AM
Tiger found 18 holes and now Jesus? I can't even find my car keys.

Bumpus
01-30-2010, 11:56 AM
If Tiger were to join Bumpus-ism (with our "thou shalt" commandments) everything he did would be all good ... Just saying. :)

milldog
01-30-2010, 12:20 PM
No surprise there's a topic like this. Nothing against Christians but I have never seen a religion try to recruit so actively like Christians do. And now they're trying to get Tiger Woods in. :lol: It's like joining a military. Can people just leave this guy alone already? It's been two months for god's sake. Letterman's case didn't even reach to this level. /edit Ah my bad, I just saw when the topic was posted.

Well, when one has the Lord inside them and they attribute their successes and failures through him, they are inclined to pass it to others. That is one of the many messages in the Bible. Maybe "they're" trying to recruit him because they feel that is his only shot at redemption! Some do care about others, and if bringing one to God is someone's way of giving help, then they should by all means give they're best shot! You might call it recruiting, I'd call it helping, but that's the difference between you and me. And, thanks to being in America, we both can have our own opinions!

aesop
01-30-2010, 12:39 PM
Well, when one has the Lord inside them and they attribute their successes and failures through him, they are inclined to pass it to others. That is one of the many messages in the Bible. Maybe "they're" trying to recruit him because they feel that is his only shot at redemption! Some do care about others, and if bringing one to God is someone's way of giving help, then they should by all means give they're best shot! You might call it recruiting, I'd call it helping, but that's the difference between you and me. And, thanks to being in America, we both can have our own opinions!The Catholic church controls around $750 billion in net assets. This is why many call it 'recruiting'.

milldog
01-30-2010, 12:59 PM
The Catholic church controls around $750 billion in net assets. This is why many call it 'recruiting'.

Then I wonder what the amount is for Jehovah's Witness's? I believe spreading the gospel is there most important activity but I could be wrong. It's just I get so many JW at my door wanting to talk about joining.