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RHoffman
01-05-2010, 09:57 PM
Derrick Morgan is not a factor. Since we love tape here. This is what I have:
1 defensive holding on morgan
2. Blocked by a back who then catches a dump off and goes for 40 yards
3. Stood straight up at least 6 times.

This is in the first quarter against iowa.

RHoffman
01-05-2010, 10:03 PM
In fairness morgan did have a nice bullrush on the int.

RHoffman
01-05-2010, 10:12 PM
Two consecutive plays #77 Reiff put morgan in the turf. The play prior morgan got off a block to stoblock to stop the run for about 4 yds.

RHoffman
01-05-2010, 10:27 PM
First good play by morgan. Good bull rush on bulaga. Bulaga could have been flagged for hands to the face.

Ozfin77
01-05-2010, 10:49 PM
I agree....I dont see much in him apart from the bull rush.

RHoffman
01-05-2010, 10:58 PM
I am going to bed but someone isolate him for the second half. He has a nice moto and appears fairly strong but he hasn't been close to special.

WelcomeBack
01-05-2010, 11:02 PM
He almost got to Stanzi with a good spin move on the RT. I like what I have seen of him so far. Also saw him get double teamed a few times. He's got a good motor. Anxious to see him in the second half.

VT Dolphan
01-05-2010, 11:05 PM
To me, Adrian Clayborn looks like the best defensive prospect in this game. He's only a junior, but wow. Man can he really move for such a big man. He took down Nesbitt real easy on that sack towards the end of the first half, and Nesbitt is about as big and strong as QB's come.

ChadHenne
01-05-2010, 11:07 PM
I've said this from the beginning, Derrick Morgan reminds me of Aaron Maybin. A player who's stock rised after one monster season. He's imo most likely a one year wonder, and will be drafted by some saps who look at his combine stats in awe and take him in the top 10.

hooshoops
01-05-2010, 11:08 PM
I've said this from the beginning, Derrick Morgan reminds me of Aaron Maybin. A player who's stock rised after one monster season. He's imo most likely a one year wonder, and will be drafted by some saps who look at his combine stats in awe and take him in the top 10.

tonight he looks like jamaal anderson with more pass rush moves...he's a very good run defender and has a repertoire of pass rush moves but doesn't show any explosion imo

TedSlimmJr
01-05-2010, 11:08 PM
There wasn't much he could do on the pass to Moeaki you're talking about....he was blocked for all of 1 second by the TE then he released into his route....the linebacker never picked him up after that....

Morgan wasn't supposed to be running down the field with the TE on the play....he's a DE....it was a perfect play design by Iowa....

They tried to run the same play on him again and it wasn't successful...

He absolutely destroyed Kyle Calloway on Iowa's first offensive snap of the game...

His motor is non stop....and he's usually dropping into coverage on the OPPOSITE side of the play when Iowa rips off a big run....he sets the edge in the run game as well as any DE in the country..

He's worth a top 10 pick if he comes out IMO....he has to do it all by himself...nobody else on GT's defensive line even has more than 2 or 3 sacks this year....you can bet Kirk Ferentz knows where this kid is..

WelcomeBack
01-05-2010, 11:17 PM
I actually saw him drop into coverage with the receiver when they had a huge run to the opposite side of the field. Didn't look bad to me.

hooshoops
01-05-2010, 11:18 PM
I actually saw him drop into coverage with the receiver when they had a huge run to the opposite side of the field. Didn't look bad to me.

i saw that also it looked pretty good to me also

ckparrothead
01-05-2010, 11:19 PM
I always find it so interesting how different people see different things.

Over on another board, Boomer, myself, Con and another guy who does draft work for other sites not related to Universal Draft, are watching and discussing play by play, and we're generally awe-struck by Derrick Morgan.

IMO he's a top 5 or top 10 pick. And he's showing it tonight.

ChadHenne
01-05-2010, 11:25 PM
I'll admit that I haven't watched Morgan much this season, but last season I caught a few Georgia Tech games on CBS and Morgan was pretty much non existant on defense. This year he has seemed to break out, but one breakout season doesn't warrant a top 10 pick.

ckparrothead
01-05-2010, 11:28 PM
Tell that to Carson Palmer.

hooshoops
01-05-2010, 11:29 PM
i don't know what i think right now...i just wonder if he has the explosion to get to the qb on a consistent basis as a 4-3 end...no question the guy is a killer run defender

as a 3-4 solb i don't know

WelcomeBack
01-05-2010, 11:31 PM
I'm personally seeing a good burst off the snap. He is explosive. Good work use of his hands pushing his man back, staying low. Looked good when I saw him actually drop in coverage.

Nobody can fault him for that long play by the tight end in the first quarter. His assignment was to rush the quarterback, not drop back.

ckparrothead
01-05-2010, 11:32 PM
You have to pay attention to technique and roles. On run downs he's not going all out in pass rush because that's not his job. Watch him on third downs in obvious pass rush. I know you guys have already noted a few third down plays in here where he stood out in pass rush. That's not a coincidence.

WelcomeBack
01-05-2010, 11:33 PM
Another thing in Morgan's defense, the Iowa line hasn't had to pay too much attention to anyone else on the defensive line when it comes to getting to the quarterback. The sack by the linebacker earlier was largely helped by Morgan's presence on the outside.

WelcomeBack
01-05-2010, 11:34 PM
He's very controlled in his body movements and in his roles.

hooshoops
01-05-2010, 11:36 PM
You have to pay attention to technique and roles. On run downs he's not going all out in pass rush because that's not his job. Watch him on third downs in obvious pass rush. I know you guys have already noted a few third down plays in here where he stood out in pass rush. That's not a coincidence.

i understand and i'm seeing a lot of power play to get in the backfield...a lot

i'm seeing the spin move also but he's not getting away from the tackle when he uses it for my eyes...just not exploding out of it

great motor though...

definitely 1st round talent for me... top 12..i don't know

WelcomeBack
01-05-2010, 11:36 PM
Good pursuit on that play. Trying to beat 3 guys right there.

hooshoops
01-05-2010, 11:40 PM
if we're looking for a right tackle buluga looks like the goods to me...i think he's a very good run blocker and very solid in pass pro

power player...

TedSlimmJr
01-05-2010, 11:41 PM
I'll admit that I haven't watched Morgan much this season, but last season I caught a few Georgia Tech games on CBS and Morgan was pretty much non existant on defense. This year he has seemed to break out, but one breakout season doesn't warrant a top 10 pick.


He led all Georgia Tech defensive lineman in tackles last year...and that's a unit that had 4 NFL players on it.....he was 2nd on the team in sacks with 7 (behind Michael Johnson)....and was tied for 2nd in the COUNTRY with 4 fumble recoveries...

All he's done this year is win the ACC Defensive Player of the Year Award and lead the ACC in TFL's and seal the victory in the ACC Championship Game for them...

hooshoops
01-05-2010, 11:43 PM
anybody else wondering about bebe's speed more now after seeing the dbs stay in their back pedal forever and still stay with him running down the field???

i am...a lot

ChadHenne
01-05-2010, 11:44 PM
He led all Georgia Tech defensive lineman in tackles last year...and that's a unit that had 4 NFL players on it.....he was 2nd on the team in sacks with 7 (behind Michael Johnson)....and was tied for 2nd in the COUNTRY with 4 fumble recoveries...

All he's done this year is win the ACC Defensive Player of the Year Award and lead the ACC in TFL's and seal the victory in the ACC Championship Game for them...

I don't know. I did watch his technique and it was fine, not great, but it was good enough.

Still, I had that feeling that he just wasn't impressive when I saw him perform. When I draft 12th, I want a game changer on my team. I just didn't get that feeling when watching Morgan play.

I know that doesn't sound in depth, but that was what I felt when I watched him play.

ckparrothead
01-05-2010, 11:44 PM
He's not using much of a speed rush tonight. I don't think he needs to. He's getting to the QB in other ways. I think we agree he's hellish against the run here. Using the speed rush over and over has its drawbacks.

WelcomeBack
01-05-2010, 11:45 PM
I haven't been watching Thomas much. Everytime GT has the ball, I seem to get stuck watching Clayborn.

ckparrothead
01-05-2010, 11:46 PM
It's hard to draw conclusions about Bebe when they haven't thrown the ball pretty much at all.

Lord Of Miami
01-05-2010, 11:46 PM
His best fit in the NFL is going end up being a LDE in a 4-3.

He looks like a young Vonnie Holliday, he also looks every bit of 280 tonight as well.

ckparrothead
01-05-2010, 11:47 PM
BTW keep in mind that if Amari Spivey came out he'd have a decent chance at being the #1 CB in the draft.

hooshoops
01-05-2010, 11:47 PM
He's not using much of a speed rush tonight. I don't think he needs to. He's getting to the QB in other ways. I think we agree he's hellish against the run here. Using the speed rush over and over has its drawbacks.

good point...but will he show it at all???

hooshoops
01-05-2010, 11:48 PM
BTW keep in mind that if Amari Spivey came out he'd have a decent chance at being the #1 CB in the draft.

really??? i wasn't aware of that...is he the guy who hurt his ankle early???

ChadHenne
01-05-2010, 11:48 PM
BTW keep in mind that if Amari Spivey came out he'd have a decent chance at being the #1 CB in the draft.

I think Haden would still be ahead of him.

However, he would be ahead of Warren and every other CB coming out this year imo.

Lord Of Miami
01-05-2010, 11:50 PM
I don't know. I did watch his technique and it was fine, not great, but it was good enough.

Still, I had that feeling that he just wasn't impressive when I saw him perform. When I draft 12th, I want a game changer on my team. I just didn't get that feeling when watching Morgan play.

I know that doesn't sound in depth, but that was what I felt when I watched him play.

Yup most scouts don't see him as a game changer "star" kind of player.

He's just a real good player that will play 8 to 10 years as a LDE in a 4-3.

ckparrothead
01-05-2010, 11:50 PM
good point...but will he show it at all???

I don't think he suddenly lost it. He's showed it in other games.

TedSlimmJr
01-05-2010, 11:52 PM
Clayborn is a beast too but who's blocking him? Can anyone name either tackle on GT's offensive line? lol

No matter which side Morgan lines up on he's going against one of the best OT's in college...

Kirk Ferentz has this offense figured out....he'll shift his defensive line over a gap before the snap and screw everything up...

hooshoops
01-05-2010, 11:53 PM
I don't think he suddenly lost it. He's showed it in other games.

lol...i meant tonight

ckparrothead
01-05-2010, 11:53 PM
Yup most scouts don't see him as a game changer "star" kind of player.

He's just a real good player that will play 8 to 10 years as a LDE in a 4-3.

That's pretty cool that you're in regular contact with the majority of NFL scouts to where you know what they think about Derrick Morgan.

WelcomeBack
01-05-2010, 11:54 PM
Ferentz has GT's number. Shutting down everything.

hooshoops
01-05-2010, 11:54 PM
He's just a real good player that will play 8 to 10 years as a LDE in a 4-3.

that might be the way i'm leaning

ckparrothead
01-05-2010, 11:55 PM
I think Haden would still be ahead of him.

However, he would be ahead of Warren and every other CB coming out this year imo.

Haden's a good college player but when they measure the two guys up it wouldn't surprise me if the scouts like Spivey more.

hooshoops
01-05-2010, 11:56 PM
b/t i'd take anthony dixon in a second over dwyer...his pass pro and run blocking tonight has been awful...like lack of effort bad imo

WelcomeBack
01-05-2010, 11:56 PM
GT finally showing life on offense.

WelcomeBack
01-05-2010, 11:57 PM
Good hit by Angerer.

ckparrothead
01-05-2010, 11:58 PM
I haven't really been able to follow Dwyer much. Concentrating too much on Edds.

hooshoops
01-05-2010, 11:59 PM
I haven't really been able to follow Dwyer much. Concentrating too much on Edds.

what's the thought there???

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 12:03 AM
He is a big, balanced, smart and strong player that doesn't always protect his feet well, doesn't shed blocks like Brandon Spikes or Rolondo McClain, but is a gifted cover guy that hits the heck out of Tight Ends and Running backs, practically raping them legally within the 5 yard area, and he also functions in coverage with more sophisticated and tougher responsibilities than we generally give our linebackers at the NFL level.

He's a good ILB prospect for us IMO. Nothing's changed my mind about im tonight.

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 12:05 AM
Morgan just blew up the right tackle.

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 12:05 AM
Hell of a pass rush by Morgan on Reiff there. But Stanzi is faster.

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 12:06 AM
damn...that was a nice rush there...just threw the tackle...

but you got to catch stanzi on that play

Lord Of Miami
01-06-2010, 12:08 AM
damn...that was a nice rush there...just threw the tackle...

but you got to catch stanzi on that play

He just doesn't have the speed to, that's why the thought of him playing as a OLB is just :crazy: to me.

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 12:08 AM
Stanzi's a 4.7 guy. Looks like that's about what Morgan is.

TedSlimmJr
01-06-2010, 12:09 AM
He is a big, balanced, smart and strong player that doesn't always protect his feet well, doesn't shed blocks like Brandon Spikes or Rolondo McClain, but is a gifted cover guy that hits the heck out of Tight Ends and Running backs, practically raping them legally within the 5 yard area, and he also functions in coverage with more sophisticated and tougher responsibilities than we generally give our linebackers at the NFL level.

He's a good ILB prospect for us IMO. Nothing's changed my mind about im tonight.


Agree with everything here on Edddddds....you don't want him in there hand fighting with offensive lineman but he's basically the equivalent of a shutdown corner in coverage on backs and tight ends...

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 12:09 AM
Stanzi is not slow.

TedSlimmJr
01-06-2010, 12:12 AM
See what I mean

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 12:12 AM
Agree with everything here on Edddddds....you don't want him in there hand fighting with offensive lineman but he's basically the equivalent of a shutdown corner in coverage on backs and tight ends...

He's a smart, strong and physical guy. I think he could learn to shed blocks better. The professor of the defense.

And he just picked off a pass LOL.

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 12:12 AM
is there a conditioning issue...i've seen morgan pull himself a lot in this game???

i know the motor is awesome but so is dan williams motor and he plays every down at nt...

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 12:14 AM
damn if you 2 didn't call that on edds...he was draped on #24 down the field...

how bout change of direction??? solid there

TedSlimmJr
01-06-2010, 12:14 AM
is there a conditioning issue...i've seen morgan pull himself a lot in this game???

i know the motor is awesome but so is dan williams motor and he plays every down at nt...


Jesus hoops....Morgan runs about 10 more miles a game than Dan Williams does...lol

Williams workshop is a LOT smaller than Derrick Morgans..

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 12:15 AM
Look at how naturally Morgan re-routes two receiving options before running to the QB on the boot to pressure him. Without those bumps those receivers get open.

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 12:16 AM
Spin move by Morgan looked clean.

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 12:18 AM
Jesus hoops....Morgan runs about 10 more miles a game than Dan Williams does...lol

Williams workshop is a LOT smaller than Derrick Morgans..

ha ha...just bustin ballz

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 12:18 AM
This ILB Edds is looking like quite the candidate in Rd 2 for us. He seems to always be around the ball and he showed great playmaking ability by plucking that ball right outta the air for the INT. Any idea where he's slated to go? And would he fit in with our 3-4?

Edit: Sorry I'm late CK and Slimm, I'm on DVR delay lol

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 12:18 AM
Yeah I've only seen Morgan out on literally a handful of plays this game, it's late in the fourth quarter in a tough game and he's been defending the run all game, spying the QB, dropping back in coverage some, rushing the passer...the dude is legitimately gassed and he's not taking plays off he's just every now and then not hustling to the ball when it's pretty far away from him. I'd LOVE to see more, but it's not something I'd criticize.

And now you know why once upone a time I liked Morgan Burnett about as much as Eric Berry. Of course now they're on a little bit different levels but Burnett has skills and he'll be something.

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 12:19 AM
would mcclain and edds with back-to-back picks be far fetched?

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 12:19 AM
i think burnette even before that play has had a very solid game...sure tackling

TedSlimmJr
01-06-2010, 12:20 AM
What 265+ pound DE in college catches Stanzi on that running play anyway? Dunlap?

You can count them on one hand I can guarantee you that....

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 12:20 AM
I should also mention that the simple fact that he's throwing some of his best pass rush and plays out in the fourth quarter SHOULD be accounted for...

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 12:20 AM
i wouldn't take edds at #44 in the 3rd yeah maybe but not #44

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 12:21 AM
mcclain - benn - edds...anyone? lol

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 12:21 AM
Monumentally stupid on Dwyer's part.

Yeah...I have a feeling Dixon has jumped ahead of him on my board.

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 12:24 AM
Hey CK, do you think that Spiller would honestly be an option for us if he's there in the 1st? I take ILB and WR before another RB personally, but hey, im not ireland lol

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 12:24 AM
Clayborn is the guy that looks gassed to me.

Why not take Edds at #44? It would be one thing if the guy didn't look physical or strong. He's both. And big. He just needs to learn better technique shedding blocks. You can forgive that in him right now because of the position he plays. It's not a position where he's used to being ground up in the gearworks. He doesn't show an aversion to it, just inexperience IMO.

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 12:25 AM
i know dwyer has had no room pretty much all night but i don't think he's as powerful a player as dixon or has that 2nd gear that dixon has in the open field...

and his run and pass blocking today imo just won't cut it

no doubter for me dixon

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 12:25 AM
Don't mind me, im obsessed with not seeing Akin and Crowder as our ILBs next season...one of them must be replaced lol...

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 12:26 AM
Hey CK, do you think that Spiller would honestly be an option for us if he's there in the 1st? I take ILB and WR before another RB personally, but hey, im not ireland lol

Spiller should be an option for us if I were running things yes.

I have five locked up guys that I don't pass on if they're there at #12. They are Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Eric Berry, C.J. Spiller and Dez Bryant. I'm considering making Derrick Morgan a sixth.

Those five have nothing to do with positions of need. It has everything to do with special talent.

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 12:28 AM
i believe the woes with our defense begin and end in the middle...we need backers that can cover and not miss 20 tackles and assignments a game...give me McClain my good sir lol...and yes I'm about to hop on the "Edds in the 2nd" bandwagon as well...

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 12:29 AM
i know dwyer has had no room pretty much all night but i don't think he's as powerful a player as dixon or has that 2nd gear that dixon has in the open field...

and his run and pass blocking today imo just won't cut it

no doubter for me dixon

I've been holding off on that question until I can get a chance to see more Dwyer but I'm definitely coming to your side of things on that one. I knew I loved Dixon. I knew I liked Dwyer last year. I didn't know whether I still liked Dwyer. I still don't, but I'm starting to get an idea.

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 12:31 AM
I like everything ive seen from Dez Bryant at OSU, but im a bit leery of taking a WR in round 1, they allow for a big propensity of busts. i would wholly support improving our O in FA and our D through the draft...we are missing 2-3 backers, a competent FS, and NT to build upon...if not, a 3-4 is never a reliable set...

TedSlimmJr
01-06-2010, 12:32 AM
Iowa is killing GT's defensive line on the opposite side of Morgan

Ferentz didn't fall off a watermelon truck yesterday

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 12:33 AM
I don't understand the thinking that Morgan can't play SOLB. He's playing in space this entire fourth quarter from an up position and looking damn good doing it IMO.

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 12:33 AM
It seems like the key to success: run away from Morgan

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 12:35 AM
I don't understand the thinking that Morgan can't play SOLB. He's playing in space this entire fourth quarter from an up position and looking damn good doing it IMO.

Completely agree. He's looked solid in pretty much all aspects.

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 12:35 AM
Callaway got away with a nice hold on Burnett on that one.

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 12:35 AM
bulagu is destroying people on the left side...

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 12:36 AM
morgan has impressed more much more in the 2nd half, than the 1st, surprisingly enough...the only time ive ever noticed him was in the UM game where he was made invisible mostly...i dont think he's an option for us, he seems like a late 1st rounder to me...unless we trade back into the back-end of Rd 1...

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 12:36 AM
morgan has impressed more much more in the 2nd half, than the 1st, surprisingly enough...the only time ive ever noticed him was in the UM game where he was made invisible mostly...i dont think he's an option for us, he seems like a late 1st rounder to me...unless we trade back into the back-end of Rd 1...

He shouldn't make it past the 12th pick.

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 12:36 AM
yea, bulagu has owned the left side...wonder if he could play LG? lol

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 12:37 AM
I like everything ive seen from Dez Bryant at OSU, but im a bit leery of taking a WR in round 1, they allow for a big propensity of busts. i would wholly support improving our O in FA and our D through the draft...we are missing 2-3 backers, a competent FS, and NT to build upon...if not, a 3-4 is never a reliable set...

i don't see any chance of bust with dez bryant...i just don't...i see top 10 wr in the league

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 12:37 AM
He shouldn't make it past the 12th pick.

amen

TedSlimmJr
01-06-2010, 12:37 AM
Did you see Edddds out there lined up in the slot covering a WR in man coverage downfield....:lol:

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 12:38 AM
i agree with CK on the 6 guys that we should not pass on if they are there at #12...#1 i believe is berry, then McClain, then Dez followed by Spiller

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 12:39 AM
Did you see Edddds out there lined up in the slot covering a WR in man coverage downfield....:lol:

:up:

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 12:40 AM
i don't see any chance of bust with dez bryant...i just don't...i see top 10 wr in the league

I hope you are right bro, because that would make me insanely happy, it has been way too long since we've had a true playmaker on the outside. If Dez is there at #12, and we take him, id do a happy dance, but if we take McClain or Spiller, id also be pretty damn happy honestly...and i believe theres a good chance all 3 are on the board when we pick, cruel twist of fate lol

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 12:41 AM
I'm totally on the Edds wagon boys...

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 12:42 AM
i don't think we should take spiller at #12...i just don't

i think he's absolutely a top talent in the draft but i think we should bring back ronnie 1 more year at $5 mil with ricky hilliard and cobbs and maybe consider a rb later...then draft a rb in 2011

fill another need with a top talent

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 12:45 AM
i agree with you hoops...its just one of those things...is he one of those REALLY special talents that could instantly improve our team and scare the living daylights out of everyone else in the league, ala Chris Johnson, if he is...boy would he look good in our colors...he could be one of those players that could make us really dangerous all by himself...

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 12:46 AM
For the record I still want McClain with our 1st pick, followed closely by Dez Bryant...either picked would make me ecstatic lol...

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 12:49 AM
I don't think you pass on talent like that especially since in the scenario you painted above hoops, we have two backs that are lame ducks, short timers. Only here one more year.

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 12:53 AM
I don't think you pass on talent like that especially since in the scenario you painted above hoops, we have two backs that are lame ducks, short timers. Only here one more year.

i understand that but it's not like rb isn't a position that can be filled with a rookie and that rook be very effective...imo it's one of the easiest positions in pro football to fill and contribute in short order...

i'd be more along the lines of getting a back in the 3rd round or so or next year early than with pick #12

but i agree with you ck that spiller is every bit talented enough to justify the pick

i personally wouldn't take spiller over bryant right now at least...that could change if we filled some needs in free agency etc

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 12:54 AM
i dont think theres anyone like him coming out in 2011...i have a feeling wherever he ends up, he'll make immediate noise and become that team's feature back very quickly...the kid can carry the load, he's a great pass receiver, havent seen much in the form of blocking but that can be taught...imagine him coming around the sweep in the wildcat...jesus i think i just got goosebumps lol...PLAYMAKER...

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 12:56 AM
Antonio Bryant - WR and Tony Scheffler at TE would be good enough additions via FA to allow us the luxury of taking Spiller in Rd 1...maybe lol

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 12:57 AM
i dont think theres anyone like him coming out in 2011...i have a feeling wherever he ends up, he'll make immediate noise and become that team's feature back very quickly...the kid can carry the load, he's a great pass receiver, havent seen much in the form of blocking but that can be taught...imagine him coming around the sweep in the wildcat...jesus i think i just got goosebumps lol...PLAYMAKER...

i think marc ingram is gonna be a heck of a pro rb...this year or next year we BETTER get a stud wr one way or the other

lot of wr talent that will be available next year...

i still take bryant as we sit at #12 and love the pick

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 01:02 AM
i understand that but it's not like rb isn't a position that can be filled with a rookie and that rook be very effective...imo it's one of the easiest positions in pro football to fill and contribute in short order...

i'd be more along the lines of getting a back in the 3rd round or so or next year early than with pick #12

but i agree with you ck that spiller is every bit talented enough to justify the pick

i personally wouldn't take spiller over bryant right now at least...that could change if we filled some needs in free agency etc

The problem with this thinking is that C.J. Spiller isn't a position "fill". He's a rare talent. He's not Adrian Peterson, but he is absolutely one of the best backs I've seen coming out.

There's a difference between a guy that just gains yards behind a good offensive line, and a guy that genuinely scares a defense. Spiller is a guy that scares a defense. It isn't easy to find a guy like that.

I probably wouldn't take Spiller over Bryant either, I agree with that...BUT, that also depends on what happens with free agency, doesn't it? I mean if it works out to where there is a new CBA, Ronnie is set to be a free agent, he wants to be the richest back in the NFL, meanwhile because of the CBA some options at WR and LB open up....do you pay Ronnie Brown if that means not being able to make offers to good WRs and LBs in free agency? I would rather fill those needs with guys that could make immediate impacts, free agents, than rookies who will need years of seasoning. Like you said, Spiller could make an IMMEDIATE impact, which means he could be an IMMEDIATE replacement for Ronnie Brown.

I think that could be the smarter move, IF things play out that way with the CBA and available free agents. By doing that you don't lose anything at tailback, and you gain immediate help at the other positions, instead of focusing on a rookie WR or LB who may take years of seasoning to be good.

TedSlimmJr
01-06-2010, 01:02 AM
C.J. Spiller ain't carrying no load in the NFL...lol...he don't even carry one in college...

He's a threat to score about a half dozen different ways...and if he gets a step on you....you might as well just go sit down and get some gatorade because you ain't catching him....

That said...I think Mark Ingram and Ryan Williams are more built for being featured backs in the NFL...

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 01:04 AM
The featured back in the NFL is a dinosaur.

Teams have figured out that it's not necessarily a smart way to go even if you have talent at that position.

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 01:05 AM
And I should add that I see absolutely no reason Chris Johnson could take 358 carries and that C.J. Spiller could not do that in any given year.

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 01:08 AM
The problem with this thinking is that C.J. Spiller isn't a position "fill". He's a rare talent. He's not Adrian Peterson, but he is absolutely one of the best backs I've seen coming out.

There's a difference between a guy that just gains yards behind a good offensive line, and a guy that genuinely scares a defense. Spiller is a guy that scares a defense. It isn't easy to find a guy like that.

I probably wouldn't take Spiller over Bryant either, I agree with that...BUT, that also depends on what happens with free agency, doesn't it? I mean if it works out to where there is a new CBA, Ronnie is set to be a free agent, he wants to be the richest back in the NFL, meanwhile because of the CBA some options at WR and LB open up....do you pay Ronnie Brown if that means not being able to make offers to good WRs and LBs in free agency? I would rather fill those needs with guys that could make immediate impacts, free agents, than rookies who will need years of seasoning. Like you said, Spiller could make an IMMEDIATE impact, which means he could be an IMMEDIATE replacement for Ronnie Brown.

I think that could be the smarter move, IF things play out that way with the CBA and available free agents. By doing that you don't lose anything at tailback, and you gain immediate help at the other positions, instead of focusing on a rookie WR or LB who may take years of seasoning to be good.

absolutely...like i said it all depends on free agency and trades etc as to who bottom line i'd take

but i agree with slimm that ingram and guys like williams are more equipped to handle 20 plus carries per game

TedSlimmJr
01-06-2010, 01:08 AM
Chris Johnson is going to be a dinosaur if he carrys the ball 300+ times again....

I'm telling you he won't last...I'd be surprised if he ever carries the football more than 300 times again....something will happen....

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 01:09 AM
And I should add that I see absolutely no reason Chris Johnson could take 358 carries and that C.J. Spiller could not do that in any given year.

how long do you think chris johnson is gonna be able to handle that many carries??? not long imo

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 01:09 AM
Chris Johnson is going to be a dinosaur if he carrys the ball 300+ times again....

I'm telling you he won't last...I'd be surprised if he ever carries the football more than 300 times again....something will happen....

bingo

FinsFanatic777
01-06-2010, 01:11 AM
Chris Johnson is going to be a dinosaur if he carrys the ball 300+ times again....

I'm telling you he won't last...I'd be surprised if he ever carries the football more than 300 times again....something will happen....

I was so surprised he was able to carry the ball 358 times. It was obvious he was wearing down a lot, and he definitely would have it a wall if the Titans made the playoffs.

Instead of CJ Spiller, how about Jahvid Best? His draft stock seems to be falling a lot, and I'd rather use a second round pick on a RB instead of a first rounder. Spiller and Best are both undersized but explosive. Your takes?

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 01:13 AM
i wouldn't take best in the 2nd either...i don't see another gear speed wise

if i was gonna take a rb in the 2nd his name would be the bruiser anthony dixon and we'd punish cats

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 01:16 AM
I don't expect that to be a long term workload for Chris Johnson, but so what? It's not a long term workload for ANYONE in the NFL anymore.

Teams just aren't doing it anymore. It doesn't make sense. Was it a long term work load for the MUCH bigger and stronger Michael Turner?

Is it a long term work load for Brandon Jacobs?

I only see FOUR guys in the NFL this year that carried the ball on average more than 20 times in a game. Four. That's it. And of them, I don't think 3 of them will continue to be given that kind of workload.

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 01:20 AM
I don't expect that to be a long term workload for Chris Johnson, but so what? It's not a long term workload for ANYONE in the NFL anymore.

Teams just aren't doing it anymore. It doesn't make sense. Was it a long term work load for the MUCH bigger and stronger Michael Turner?

Is it a long term work load for Brandon Jacobs?

I only see FOUR guys in the NFL this year that carried the ball on average more than 20 times in a game. Four. That's it. And of them, I don't think 3 of them will continue to be given that kind of workload.

no it wasn't a long term workload for them and both those backs you've mentioned have had chronic injuries this year...

heck even ap isn't gonna hold up much longer imo at 24 getting 300 plus carries a year and he is by far my top rb in the league

we can't even keep ronnie brown healthy sharing carries...

i'd be real leary running cj spiller like the titans have run chris johnson

TedSlimmJr
01-06-2010, 01:21 AM
I think Spillers talent and versatility maybe worth a top 15 pick....but I dont think the VALUE is there....

Running backs are too easy to find and plug in...especially in tandem....

I'd rather take a smaller version of Spiller (Dexter McCluster) in the middle rounds....there's nothing Spiller can do that McCluster can't do IMO....

I've watched that kid absolutely take over games and dominate them in the SEC too...pound for pound the toughest SOB in college football...and use him just like you would Spiller....

Or sign a guy like Leon Washington in free agency, etc...

I just think a top 12 pick should be a player that's going to impact every play on that side of the ball...which is usually a defensive player....or a QB/OT if it's offense...

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 01:22 AM
Well its only January 6th, plenty of things can change...but McClain or Bryant or Spiller (in that order) would be welcome in a Fins Uni...looking forward to your analysis closer to the draft CK...

biggiesmalls3k1
01-06-2010, 01:26 AM
I am more focused on filling our voids at Linebacker and Safety, i believe our offense did enough to win 10-11 games this year if not for our sieve of a Defense...

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 01:45 AM
I really can't agree that there's nothing that Spiller can do that McCluster can't.

Chris Johnson is dangerous because he can break tackles. He has the most yards after contact of anyone in the league. C.J. Spiller can break tackles the same way Chris Johnson does, with a combination of balance, sturdiness, speed and agility. Dexter McCluster will not break tackles in the NFL.

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 01:47 AM
I really can't agree that there's nothing that Spiller can do that McCluster can't.

Chris Johnson is dangerous because he can break tackles. He has the most yards after contact of anyone in the league. C.J. Spiller can break tackles the same way Chris Johnson does, with a combination of balance, sturdiness, speed and agility. Dexter McCluster will not break tackles in the NFL.

i would have to agree with that...but i think mccluster will be a real weapon in the pros in a variety of ways

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 01:55 AM
The difference between C.J. Spiller and Dexter McCluster in terms of their usefulness for the pro game will be about 12 to 13 touches.

McCluster is a guy I might try and find a way to get the ball 2 to 5 times a game.

Spiller is a guy I would find a way to get the ball between 15 and 20 times a game.

FinsFanatic777
01-06-2010, 02:09 AM
The difference between C.J. Spiller and Dexter McCluster in terms of their usefulness for the pro game will be about 12 to 13 touches.

McCluster is a guy I might try and find a way to get the ball 2 to 5 times a game.

Spiller is a guy I would find a way to get the ball between 15 and 20 times a game.

Another difference is that Spiller is projected in the early part of the first round while McCluster is projected in the 5th round or so. I really like Dexter McCluster and Jahvid Best because we can get them at a much cheaper price than Spiller while still getting some explosiveness and production out of them. Noel Devine is also someone to look at to.

TedSlimmJr
01-06-2010, 02:15 AM
The difference between C.J. Spiller and Dexter McCluster in terms of their usefulness for the pro game will be about 12 to 13 touches.

McCluster is a guy I might try and find a way to get the ball 2 to 5 times a game.

Spiller is a guy I would find a way to get the ball between 15 and 20 times a game.


Now that I agree with....

However, if you're going to draft C.J. Spiller with the 12th overall pick to break tackles in the NFL...I think it's disappointment on the horizon there as well.....

If you draft either player with the intention of getting them the ball in space or mismatched one-on-one with a defender....well now you're getting somewhere....

I'd let McCluster/Spiller return every kick....(3-5 touches a game there)..

I'd let McCluster carry it 2-3 times on sweeps, Wildcrutches, whatnots....2-3 screen passes, etc.....

You're looking at 10-12 touches a game....Spiller would probably carry it 10 more times.....but he's not effective between the tackles...at least not enough to warrant 12th pick vs. 150th pick, etc...

I agree the difference would be 12-13 touches etc....

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 02:32 AM
I don't see giving a guy as diminutive as McCluster 10-12 touches a game. Recipe for disaster.

And yes I see Spiller making yards after contact in the NFL.

If C.J. Spiller is not worth the #12 pick then no running back is worth the #12 pick because in today's NFL no team really takes a back with the idea in mind of giving them 20+ carries a game.

TedSlimmJr
01-06-2010, 03:24 AM
Spiller isn't quite MJD....I don't think he's going to break enough tackles for it to matter...

Anyway...if you chart McClusters touches....he averaged touching the ball 18 times per game......for an average of 144 yards per game....and about 1 TD per game....

He averages 8 yards per touch......let me say that again....he averaged 8 yards per TOUCH...

The only reason he had 11 total touchdowns and didn't average more touches/yards per game is because Nutt was trying to force the offense through Snead the first 6 or 7 weeks of the season....

After he started running the offense through McCluster....he averaged 28 touches per game......for an average of 217 yards per game....and almost 2 touchdowns per game....

If you didn't try to get the ball in this kids hands 10-12 times per game....that would be the disaster IMO....and he doesn't fumble...

I think he could handle a dozen touches or so...

Pinkboy
01-06-2010, 03:37 AM
I dunno. McCluster reminds me of another back from Ole Miss who will have problems in the NFL.. Remember John Avery ?

While Spiller looks like the real deal. This guy is going to be good.

I think it's silly to compare the two when it comes to their NFL prospects. And I don;t know who it was who mentioned he could bust like McFadden. Because I also don't see a comparison there. McFadden had skinny legs, ran high, and was a one cut runner. Spiller's game is nothing like that.

I never liked McFadden, for a lot of reasons. There are A LOT of reasons to love Spiller.. Again, two totally different situations and two totally different players.

So people need to stop using that silly McFadden excuse.

TedSlimmJr
01-06-2010, 03:46 AM
John Avery? I'm talking about McCluster in the middle rounds.....not the 1st round....

That's like saying C.J. Spiller reminds me of Trung Canidate...

Lord Of Miami
01-06-2010, 05:01 AM
McCluster will get killed in the NFL as a RB.

He needs to start eating like 4 years ago.

fgrocker
01-06-2010, 12:05 PM
It's funny how some people on this site think that Morgan could transition to an OLB in our scheme. He couldn't even catch Ricky Stanzi from behind!

ckparrothead
01-06-2010, 12:08 PM
Ricky Stanzi is not a slow quarterback. Greg Ellis was an excellent SOLB for Dallas. He wouldn't have caught Ricky Stanzi from behind.

RHoffman
01-06-2010, 08:47 PM
I didn't watch the second half, but I guess with the first half that's the beauty of opinions. I saw a defensive end who has power but very little in the way of pass rush moves especially against iowa's more lightly regarded tackle.

fgrocker
01-07-2010, 04:44 PM
Ricky Stanzi is not a slow quarterback. Greg Ellis was an excellent SOLB for Dallas. He wouldn't have caught Ricky Stanzi from behind.

Stanzi has 2 rushing yards in 3 collegiate seasons. He's not a burner or even a mobile QB. The point was that an OLB in our system should be able to chase down a QB with average speed. Why would we want a pass rusher who can only catch slow QBs?

And where the hell did the Greg Ellis reference come from? :err: