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Dogbone34
01-06-2010, 06:08 PM
with Berry and Suh off the board and no trade down options, who are your top 5 picks for #12?

1 Dez Bryant
2 Rolando McClain
3 CJ Spillar
4 Earl Thomas
5 Brandon Spikes

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 06:11 PM
1. Dez Bryant
2. Rolando McClain
3. Derrick Morgan
4. Brandon Spikes
5. Earl Thomas

ColonelJ
01-06-2010, 06:30 PM
Pat White and Sean Smith in the second round last year were big mistakes. Our D front needs improvement as well as our receivers.

Trade: Paul Soliai, Will Allen, Fasano, and Joey Porter.

Draft in order:

1a. Terrence Cody, 1b. Joe Haden, 1c. Brandon Spikes, 1d. Brandon Graham
2a. Kam Chancellor, 2b. Danario Alexander, 2c. Nate Allen 2d. Marty Gilyard
3a. Jimmy Graham/Dedrick Epps, 3b. Phillip Dillard, 3c. Freddie Barnes, 3d. Brandon Harris CB.

VT Dolphan
01-06-2010, 06:39 PM
1) Rolando McClain
2) Dez Bryant
3) CJ Spiller
4) Derrick Morgan
5) Golden Tate

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 06:43 PM
Pat White and Sean Smith in the second round last year were big mistakes. Our D front needs improvement as well as our receivers.

Trade: Paul Soliai, Will Allen, Fasano, and Joey Porter.

Draft in order:

1a. Terrence Cody, 1b. Joe Haden, 1c. Brandon Spikes, 1d. Brandon Graham
2a. Kam Chancellor, 2b. Danario Alexander, 2c. Nate Allen 2d. Marty Gilyard
3a. Jimmy Graham/Dedrick Epps, 3b. Phillip Dillard, 3c. Freddie Barnes, 3d. Brandon Harris CB.

I don't understand how you say Sean Smith in the 2nd was a mistake, then come back with Kam Chancellor in your mock.

ColonelJ
01-06-2010, 06:45 PM
I don't understand how you say Sean Smith in the 2nd was a mistake, then comd back with Kam Chancellor in your mock.

Sean Smith had one highlight play, and it came in the preseason. The secondary was terrible this year again. Vontae Davis provides much hope and has played well at times. Free Safety is what we know it is. Therefore, Kam Chancellor.

greasyObnoxious
01-06-2010, 06:47 PM
1, Dez Bryant
2, Rolando McClain
3, C.J. Spiller
4, Jerry Hughes
5, Earl Thomas

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 06:49 PM
Sean Smith had one highlight play, and it came in the preseason. The secondary was terrible this year again. Vontae Davis provides much hope and has played well at times. Free Safety is what we know it is. Therefore, Kam Chancellor.

Highlight plays do not designate the skill of a cornerback.

Here's some stats...you tell me if you'd care about who we had.

Player 1 - 39 tackles, 0 INT, 12 passes defended

Player 2 - 34 tackles, 1 INT, 4 passes defended

greasyObnoxious
01-06-2010, 06:53 PM
Sean Smith had one highlight play, and it came in the preseason. The secondary was terrible this year again. Vontae Davis provides much hope and has played well at times. Free Safety is what we know it is. Therefore, Kam Chancellor.

we already have two, arguably three strong safeties on the team. Kam Chancellor wouldn't bring us anything we don't currently have.

ColonelJ
01-06-2010, 06:54 PM
Player 1 - 39 tackles, 0 INT, 12 passes defended

Player 2 - 34 tackles, 1 INT, 4 passes defended[/quote]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=3596

VT Dolphan
01-06-2010, 06:55 PM
I don't understand how you say Sean Smith in the 2nd was a mistake, then comd back with Kam Chancellor in your mock.

As a VT student, I've seen a lot of Chancellor, and I don't want him starting for our team. First of all, he's a SS...we're looking for a ball-hawk FS. He's an athletic freak, but he struggles in coverage at times. I was high on him coming into this year and he disappointed me a bit. He can bring the big hits from time to time, but isn't always fundamentally sound and misses more tackles than he should. Think Taylor Mays lite.

ColonelJ
01-06-2010, 06:55 PM
we already have two, arguably three strong safeties on the team. Kam Chancellor wouldn't bring us anything we don't currently have.

kam Chancellor is not a strong safety. He is a free safety.

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 06:58 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=3596

Goodman's gone, and apparently is sitting at home just like the Dolphins are this postseason. It took Goodman how many years to reach that level? And he didn't do anything until just last season with the Dolphins.

Sean Smith is a rookie, starting his first 16 games of his career. He's an awesome cover corner who needs to learn how to play the ball and tackle better. You can teach those things.

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 06:59 PM
kam Chancellor is not a strong safety. He is a free safety.

Chancellor is a poor free safety in that case. I'm sorry, but he's a strong safety.

ColonelJ
01-06-2010, 07:00 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=3596

Goodman's gone, and apparently is sitting at home just like the Dolphins are this postseason. It took Goodman how many years to reach that level? And he didn't do anything until just last season with the Dolphins.

Sean Smith is a rookie, starting his first 16 games of his career. He's an awesome cover corner who needs to learn how to play the ball and tackle better. You can teach those things.[/quote]

We kept Allen and traded Goodman. And then got Smith. Brilliant!

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 07:02 PM
We kept Allen and traded Goodman. And then got Smith. Brilliant!

At this point, I'd much rather have Smith and Allen than Goodman. Smith has a huge ceiling and can learn. Keep in mind he's only been playing corner for 3 or 4 years now. Will Allen, when healthy, is a great tackler for a cornerback. Vontae and Sean can be a very good combo for years to come. They were both rookies this past season.

greasyObnoxious
01-06-2010, 07:04 PM
kam Chancellor is not a strong safety. He is a free safety.

his play doesn't support that statement.

ColonelJ
01-06-2010, 07:05 PM
Chancellor is a poor free safety in that case. I'm sorry, but he's a strong safety.

Kam Chancellor was moved to Free Safety from Strong Safety. There is a reason for that. He is just not that good or built physically for strong safety.

Kam Chancellor is the best free safety in the draft for two reasons. He has an incredible range of coverage, he is a ballhawk because he plays like a corner, he has tackling skills below the level of strong safety but good for a free safety. He will play free safety in the NFL. Also, Kam Chancellor used to play quarterback in HS and has incredible instincts.

Now, look at what he does well, which is range of coverage and ballhawking skills. # 17.
The Good!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6PC-drS9IA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrYas6mEuzg


Then look at what he does not do well, which is run blocking at the LOS, which is what strong safeties do. The bad #17:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRr2hnuElQI

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 07:06 PM
Kam Chancellor was moved to Free Safety from Strong Safety. There is a reason for that. He is just not that good or built physically for strong safety.

Kam Chancellor is the best free safety in the draft for two reasons. He has an incredible range of coverage, he is a ballhawk because he plays like a corner, he has tackling skills below the level of strong safety but good for a free safety. He will play free safety in the NFL. Also, Kam Chancellor used to play quarterback in HS and has incredible instincts.

Now, look at what he does well, which is range of coverage and ballhawking skills.
The Good!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6PC-drS9IA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrYas6mEuzg


Then look at what he does not do well, which is run blocking at the LOS, which is what strong safetie's do. The bad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRr2hnuElQI

I stopped reading after that statement.

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 07:06 PM
right now

1. dez bryant
2. rolando mcclain

trade down if possible...but if not

3. earl thomas
4. jerry hughes
5. jermaine gresham

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 07:07 PM
kam chancellor is horrid in coverage

dr.jake
01-06-2010, 07:09 PM
evidently kam was not even the best safety in the ACC. he made 2nd team in conference.

ColonelJ
01-06-2010, 07:10 PM
I stopped reading after that statement.

I say that because Eric Berry to me is a strong safety. He is a tackler and plays like a mike, like Palomalu in open field moreso than Ed Reed.

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 07:13 PM
I say that because Eric Berry to me is a strong safety. He is a tackler and plays like a mike, like Palomalu in open field moreso than Ed Reed.

Eric Berry = Free Safety
Kam Chancellor = Strong Safety

ColonelJ
01-06-2010, 07:15 PM
Eric Berry = Free Safety
Kam Chancellor = Strong Safety

That is so upside down.

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 07:16 PM
eric berry=does not deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as kam chancellor...

earl thomas=does not deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as kam chancellor...

and by does not deserve i mean kam chancellor can't hold their jocks

and kam is definitely a strong safety in the pros...

greasyObnoxious
01-06-2010, 07:17 PM
and kam is definitely a strong safety in the pros...

if even that

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 07:19 PM
if even that

Maybe Kam will get the Nic Harris treatment.

Honestly, go back and watch tape of Berry and Chancellor, cause if I'm not seeing something, I really should get my eyes checked. I'm seeing Berry as the best free safety in the draft. And I'm seeing Chancellor as a back up strong safety or even a linebacker in some schemes.

hooshoops
01-06-2010, 07:20 PM
if even that

yeah i was being nice...i don't know if he'll be in the pros long

ChambersWI
01-06-2010, 07:22 PM
Kam Chancellor was moved to Free Safety from Strong Safety. There is a reason for that. He is just not that good or built physically for strong safety.

Kam Chancellor is the best free safety in the draft for two reasons. He has an incredible range of coverage, he is a ballhawk because he plays like a corner, he has tackling skills below the level of strong safety but good for a free safety. He will play free safety in the NFL. Also, Kam Chancellor used to play quarterback in HS and has incredible instincts.

Now, look at what he does well, which is range of coverage and ballhawking skills. # 17.
The Good!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6PC-drS9IA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrYas6mEuzg


Then look at what he does not do well, which is run blocking at the LOS, which is what strong safeties do. The bad #17:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRr2hnuElQI

Chancellor has horrid ball skills and is slow. He's not as highly thought of by a lot of draft experts as you are as Scott Wright (one of the top draft evaluators around) as him the number 5 SR safety behind Taylor Mays, Nate Allen, Larry Asante and Darrell Stuckey. That doesn't even include Eric Berry who can start anywhere in the secondary and finished his career with 14 ints (12 in his first 2 seasons, nobody dared throw at Berry this year).

And judgind by your top 5 I'm glad you aren't in the Fins FO. Terrence Cody is not a top 20 pick. He's a 2 down player.

greasyObnoxious
01-06-2010, 07:23 PM
Maybe Kam will get the Nic Harris treatment.

Honestly, go back and watch tape of Berry and Chancellor, cause if I'm not seeing something, I really should get my eyes checked. I'm seeing Berry as the best free safety in the draft. And I'm seeing Chancellor as a back up strong safety or even a linebacker in some schemes.

i quite agree. Chancellor IMO will be a back-up safety/special teamer in the NFL.

phoenixphinfan
01-06-2010, 07:23 PM
1. Rolando McClain
2. Dez Bryant
3. Terrance Cody
4. Brandon Spikes
5. Jermaine Gresham

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 07:26 PM
Chancellor has horrid ball skills and is slow. He's not as highly thought of by a lot of draft experts as you are as Scott Wright (one of the top draft evaluators around) as him the number 5 SR safety behind Taylor Mays, Nate Allen, Larry Asante and Darrell Stuckey. That doesn't even include Eric Berry who can start anywhere in the secondary and finished his career with 14 ints (12 in his first 2 seasons, nobody dared throw at Berry this year).

And judgind by your top 5 I'm glad you aren't in the Fins FO. Terrence Cody is not a top 20 pick. He's a 2 down player.

Chancellor would be a lot further if you take into account Chad Jones, Morgan Burnett (if they declared) and Earl Thomas as well. And I think Robert Johnson could jump him as well.

miami71
01-06-2010, 07:26 PM
1. McClain= best LB in the draft!
2. Spiller= best game changer in the draft!

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 07:32 PM
And since you wanted to throw out a 2 minute highlight video of Chancellor's junior year, here's one of Eric Berry's career...not even counting this season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-PG04d4-sI

ColonelJ
01-06-2010, 07:39 PM
And since you wanted to throw out a 2 minute highlight video of Chancellor's junior year, here's one of Eric Berry's career...not even counting this season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-PG04d4-sI

Berry is irrelevant. Gone in top 3 for sure. You may want to post Ndamukong Suh as well.

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 07:41 PM
Berry is irrelevant. Gone in top 3 for sure. You may want to post Ndamukong Suh as well.

The point of the video wasn't that we'll get him. The point was to show what a true free safety looks like.

3rdandinches
01-06-2010, 07:41 PM
1. R.McClain ILB
2. J.Hughes OLB
3. E.Thomas FS
4. D.Bryant WR
5. B.Spikes ILB

ColonelJ
01-06-2010, 07:45 PM
The point of the video wasn't that we'll get him. The point was to show what a true free safety looks like.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Berry
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2011_SS

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 07:50 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Berry
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2011_SS

You can show me all the sites you want. I'm gonna believe what I see. Berry is great in coverage. He can play either position, so he is versatile. But he has all the skills of a pro bowl free safety.

Your reasoning for Chancellor being a free safety is cause he can cover and has a huge range. Eric Berry is in a whole different realm than Kam when it comes to coverage and is quite possibly a better tackler. Because a site has a player's position listed as one thing doesn't make it true.

ColonelJ
01-06-2010, 07:54 PM
You can show me all the sites you want. I'm gonna believe what I see. Berry is great in coverage. He can play either position, so he is versatile. But he has all the skills of a pro bowl free safety.

Your reasoning for Chancellor being a free safety is cause he can cover and has a huge range. Eric Berry is in a whole different realm than Kam when it comes to coverage and is quite possibly a better tackler. Because a site has a player's position listed as one thing doesn't make it true.

The whole world is wrong and you are right.

The reason why some call Berry a "free safety" is because he is a great safety. As such he is projected to go Tampa bay who plays cover-2 defense. In cover-2 both safeties plays the same role. Eric Berry is a perfect fit there as he will play in cover-2 as just a safety either left or right. On other teams he would fit at strong safety, much like Y Bell plays for us. He plays SS now, he is listed by draft experts as SS.

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 07:58 PM
The whole world is wrong and you are right.

The reason why some call Berry a "free safety" is because he is a great safety. As such he is projected to go Tampa bay who plays cover-2 defense. In cover-2 both safeties plays the same role. Eric Berry is a perfect fit there as he will play in cover-2 as just a safety either left or right. On other teams he would fit at strong safety, much like Y Bell plays for us. He plays SS now, he is listed by draft experts as SS.

I never said everyone was wrong and I was right. But I guarantee I'm not the only one that feels Berry is a free safety. Personally, I feel he is the best safety period and would play either side to perfection.

I'm arguing the fact that you called Kam Chancellor the BEST free safety in the draft. And that's not even true. Even if Eric Berry was strictly a strong safety, you are forgetting Earl Thomas as well.

MiamiDolfan85
01-06-2010, 07:59 PM
with Berry and Suh off the board and no trade down options, who are your top 5 picks for #12?

1 Dez Bryant
2 Rolando McClain
3 CJ Spillar
4 Earl Thomas
5 Brandon Spikes
1:Rolando McClain
2:Brandon Graham
3:Ricky Sapp
4:Jerry Hughes
5: Dez Bryant

ColonelJ
01-06-2010, 08:00 PM
Berry is a moot point. Berrry will be gone in top 3 just like Suh will be gone. I could say that both suck. But who cares? They will be gone in top 3.

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 08:02 PM
Berry is a moot point. Berrry will be gone in top 3 just like Suh will be gone. I could say that both suck. But who cares? They will be gone in top 3.

True, he is not in my top 5 because he will be gone.

But my whole argument in the beginning was stating that Kam Chancellor is not an upgrade over even Gibril and he's most likely an NFL strong safety, and maybe a back up at that.

ColonelJ
01-06-2010, 08:06 PM
Kam Chancellor is not an upgrade over even Gibril and he's most likely an NFL strong safety, and maybe a back up at that.

So Kam Chancellor is not an uprgade, but Earl Thomas is?

WelcomeBack
01-06-2010, 08:08 PM
So Kam Chancellor is not an uprgade, but Earl Thomas is?

I would say yes, absolutely.

ChambersWI
01-06-2010, 08:12 PM
anyways... realistically here's my top 5 for us as of RIGHT now and with explanations...

1.Rolando McClain ILB Alabama-Not only is he athletic, but he's extremely smart. Bama Coaches and players have praised him all year for recognizing plays and calling the right audibles.

2.Dez Bryant WR, Ok State-Compares favorably to OchoCinco. We saw Bess and Hartline emerge has fairly reliable options, but we need a guy that can command respect in the passing game.

3.Navarro Bowman LB, Penn State- A little short at 6'1, but he looks bigger than his listed weight of 230. Bowman is an athletic freak that can attack the LOS and also drop into coverage. If he has a poor combine or is smaller than what he's listed, he'll fall off my list

4.Earl Thomas S, Texas-We need a true FS. Chris Clemons had some solid moments, but not enough to say he could be a starter. Thomas is a RS junior so he may not come out, but he'd be tempting.

5.CJ Spiller RB, Clemson-Although this really isn't a need, Ricky isn't getting any younger and only wants to play 1 more year, Ronnie has finished the season on IR 2 of the last 3 seasons, and has only played in all 16 games 1 time, and neither Patrick Cobbs or Lex Hilliard are number 1 guys (though are good guys to have). Spiller is one of the fastest guys in the draft, and is a home run hitter; something only one player on our offense really is capable of (Ted Ginn).

Now some other guys I think we could look at come April

Jared Odrick DT, PSU-He'd be a DE for us. Ndmanokong Suh was unbelievable this year, and because of that I don't think people realize how good Odrick was. Odrick will see his stock raise going into April and may be an option at 12.

Everson Griffen DE/OLB USC- Great measurements and was considered one of the best DE prospects in recent memory. Only a full time starter as a junior, but has had a solid career. Should test very well

Brandon Graham DE/OLB Michigan-Could fall due to lack of size, but he's more athletic than people give him credit. Great leader and played as a DE in a 3-4 this year, a DT as a freshmen in a 4-3, and has experience as an MLB (HS, and every practice before his freshmen season when he put on a lot of weight)

Dan Williams DT, Tennessee-Playing for Ed Ogeron and Monte Kiffen really helped this guy. Williams had a great senior season and could be the top NT in the draft.

ColonelJ
01-06-2010, 08:15 PM
I love Brandon graham at OLB/DE. Played very tough and well against some tough OLs.

Graham, Brandon
Michigan
DE
Height: 6-2
Weight: 263
Led the nation in tackles for a loss this season, totaling 26 on the year. The second team All-American (Walter Camp, Associated Press and Sporting News) also tallied 10.5 sacks for the Wolverines in 2009, which ranked 14th in the country. He was a first team All-Big Ten selection by both the league coaches and media and a finalist for the Hendricks Award this year.
For his career, the Detroit native racked up 56 tackles for a loss and 29.5 sacks. He finished his senior season as the Chicago Tribune Silver Football recipient as the co-MVP of the Big Ten. He is just the second defensive player in the last 25 years to earn the award.

ticophin
01-06-2010, 09:03 PM
1. Rolando McClain OLB
2. Carlos Dunlap DE
3. Earl Thomas S
4. Cj Spiller RB
5 Dez Bryant WR

Astrosback
01-06-2010, 09:24 PM
1. Dez Bryant (Must pick him to replace Ms. Ginn)
2. CJ Spiller (Ronnie traded/tendered for a 2nd, Ricky age 33)
3. Rolando McClain (Obviously fills a huge need)
4. Joe Haden (Not a need but too elite to pass up, Sean Smith could be a NB)
5. Earl Thomas (Huge need and very close to Eric Berry in talent)

I know our defense sucks but I see more options to fix it in FA (Wilfork, Hampton, Kirk Morrison, Thomas Howard, Otogwe, maybe Rolle if he's cut) then I do see FA options for our offense.

RB is a position best filled in the draft given the short life spans for that position and the elite WR options (Marhsall and Austin) will cost a 1st and a 3rd. Boldin will cost too much too and he's getting too old now anyway. TO would be cheaper but a stop gap option only.

Nah...we gotta fill RB and WR in the draft.

Round 1.) CJ Spiller
Round 2.) Golden Tate

That would be ideal. I'm hoping we end up with an early 2nd round pick (to pull off the Golden Tate pick) via Ronnie being tendered for a 2nd and then hopefully signed by DET or CLE.

Quadfather
01-06-2010, 09:29 PM
1. mclain
2. c.j. spiller
3. dez bryant
4. taylor mays/earl thomas
5. spikes/navarro boweman

ill be real interested to see the combine results. one thing, i hope to god we dont take terrance cody with the first pick. if hes there at 44, than thats fine, but not 12th overall. he probally wouldnt even play 50% of the snaps.

j-off-her-doll
01-06-2010, 09:32 PM
The idea the Smith was a mistake pick in the 2nd is absolutely retarded - like U2-is-a-good-band-type retarded.

Smith didn't make as many plays as I had hoped, but for the most part, he shut his man down each week. He and V. Davis were both AMAZING values, and they'll both be great CB's for a long time.

The original list doesn't look too bad to me, but I'd take Spiller over McClain. While D is a big need -and ILB is a BIG need - I don't see McClain as a much (if at all) better pro than Micah Johnson. Bryant and Spiller are game-changers. I only worry that Spiller isn't in the mold that our FO likes.

ColonelJ
01-07-2010, 03:13 AM
I would say yes, absolutely.

I think it's hilarious that Kam Chancelor is not a top 50 safety, but last year 4 safeties went at the top of the 2d round: Louis Delmas 33, Patrick Chung 34, Michael Mitchel 47 to Oakland, and Marcel McBath to Denver at 48. And Kam Chancelor is not good enough. That is too funny!:up:

#1dolphinsfan
01-07-2010, 03:24 AM
#1: Dez Bryant WR
#2: Rolando McClain ILB
#3: Jerry Hughes OLB
#4: Brandon Spikes ILB
#5: Joe Haden CB ( I know we have two really good CB's but if Haden is as good as people say he is i wouldnt mind having him)

ColonelJ
01-07-2010, 03:41 AM
Highlight plays do not designate the skill of a cornerback.

Here's some stats...you tell me if you'd care about who we had.

Player 1 - 39 tackles, 0 INT, 12 passes defended

Player 2 - 34 tackles, 1 INT, 4 passes defended


Jacob Lacey Undrafted: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=12993

Smith and White in the 2nd is the worst drafting job in a long time.

Phinja24
01-07-2010, 05:28 AM
Jacob Lacey Undrafted: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=12993

Smith and White in the 2nd is the worst drafting job in a long time.


White yes. But most teams had Sean Smith as one of the top 5 corners in the draft. To get him where we did is GREAT drafting. Get a clue man.

ColonelJ
01-07-2010, 05:52 AM
White yes. But most teams had Sean Smith as one of the top 5 corners in the draft. To get him where we did is GREAT drafting. Get a clue man.

Dude, we had 2 picks in that second round, and Andre Goodman on the roster. And we got Smith and White, and paid money for Eric Green and Gabril Wilson. Horrible. The worst. This alone should raise flags about the thinking process in the FO. Are they frocking around, or are they there to win? I think they are frucking around.

WelcomeBack
01-07-2010, 10:49 AM
Dude, we had 2 picks in that second round, and Andre Goodman on the roster. And we got Smith and White, and paid money for Eric Green and Gabril Wilson. Horrible. The worst. This alone should raise flags about the thinking process in the FO. Are they frocking around, or are they there to win? I think they are frucking around.

Andre Goodman was signed by the Broncos almost 2 months before the draft.

As for Jacob Lacey having more tackles and INT's, I'd probably try to throw his way too. Sean Smith is a great cover corner who is usually stride for stride with his man. That usually happens to be when quarterbacks DON'T throw his way.

By the way, player number 2 on those stats I brought up, is Nnamdi Asomugha, the best cornerback in the league. His stats show merely anything because he is shutdown. If you want a player based on stats, that's fine. But if you'd take Andre Goodman and Jacob Lacey over Nnamdi Asomugha, you have got to be kidding me.

ColonelJ
01-07-2010, 11:04 AM
Andre Goodman was a shutdown corner last year. He signed for essentially the same contract of $10 mill guaranted as Will Allen. Yet we all knew that Will Allen was not good enough and we needed corner help. Then, insteada of signing Goodman who was shutdown last year, they kept Will Allen. Then, instead of playing the #1 pick Davis at Goodman's spot, they assigned the spot to Smith the second pick, and kept Allen. Then they let Renaldo hill go, who signed a four year $10 mil contract, only to get Wilson for 5 year, $27 million.

WRONG WRONG ALL WRONG

WelcomeBack
01-07-2010, 11:13 AM
Andre Goodman was a shutdown corner last year. He signed for essentially the same contract of $10 mill guaranted as Will Allen. Yet we all knew that Will Allen was not good enough and we needed corner help. Then, insteada of signing Goodman who was shutdown last year, they kept Will Allen. Then, instead of playing the #1 pick Davis at Goodman's spot, they assigned the spot to Smith the second pick, and kept Allen. Then they let Renaldo hill go, who signed a four year $10 mil contract, only to get Wilson for 5 year, $27 million.

WRONG WRONG ALL WRONG

You're not giving me example of why Sean Smith was a bad choice. He was a great cover corner this year. He needs to work on playing the ball and tackling, but in terms of coverage, he was solid. Vontae Davis got burnt a few times too, does that mean he was a bad choice.

Face it, Goodman and Renaldo Hill are both in their 30's already and will probably start to decline. Vontae and Sean are both young, and now have a year of experience and know what to work on.

The only move this off-season I'm really questioning is Gibril Wilson, but I can understand why they went for him considering his play in New York.

As for Pat White and Patrick Turner, I still don't know what the future holds as I am not psychic, but I give them chances to prove themselves. Pat White as a quarterback, probably not, but I doubt that's truly what he was brought in to do.

Farmer
01-07-2010, 11:17 AM
Pat White and Sean Smith in the second round last year were big mistakes. Our D front needs improvement as well as our receivers.

Trade: Paul Soliai, Will Allen, Fasano, and Joey Porter.

Draft in order:

1a. Terrence Cody, 1b. Joe Haden, 1c. Brandon Spikes, 1d. Brandon Graham
2a. Kam Chancellor, 2b. Danario Alexander, 2c. Nate Allen 2d. Marty Gilyard
3a. Jimmy Graham/Dedrick Epps, 3b. Phillip Dillard, 3c. Freddie Barnes, 3d. Brandon Harris CB.


I watch all VT games cause of where i live/friends. I'll help you out here...Kam Chancellor is POO POO. theres really no other way to put it, he's a big guy but thats about it, he reminds me a lot of G. Wilson but a worse tackler

WelcomeBack
01-07-2010, 11:20 AM
I watch all VT games cause of where i live/friends. I'll help you out here...Kam Chancellor is POO POO. theres really no other way to put it, he's a big guy but thats about it, he reminds me a lot of G. Wilson but a worse tackler

Thank you. Even VT Dolphan said it earlier, and he is a VT fan.

ColonelJ
01-07-2010, 11:24 AM
The kid has no instincts. He gets juked out of position on simple moves and left behind by 4 yards, and even when he runs side by side, which is what every high school corner can do, he often fails to make a play. Let's hope for the best because he is not a load on the budget, but drafting such a player, with no athleticism and insticts for the position was a huge waste for a second round pick IMO.

WelcomeBack
01-07-2010, 11:27 AM
The kid has no instincts. He gets juked out of position on simple moves and left behind by 4 yards, and even when he runs side by side, which is what every high school corner can do, he often fails to make a play. Let's hope for the best because he is not a load on the budget, but drafting such a player, with no athleticism and insticts for the position was a huge waste for a second round pick IMO.

He had his bad moments, but what rookie doesn't? Smith looks very promising, as does Vontae who gave up a few crucial plays. Cornerback shouldn't even be a worry unless you're trading Will Allen and looking for a nickel.

The main worry in the secondary is Gibril Wilson.

ChambersWI
01-07-2010, 12:05 PM
He had his bad moments, but what rookie doesn't? Smith looks very promising, as does Vontae who gave up a few crucial plays. Cornerback shouldn't even be a worry unless you're trading Will Allen and looking for a nickel.

The main worry in the secondary is Gibril Wilson.

Bell is just as much of a worry. Biggest difference is Bell was able to chase people down from behind, but there is a reason why the second part of the season we saw Culver and Clemons come in at the same time. Plus, neither safety has been forcing TOs (Bell's INT was a gimme).

As for Smith like WB said, he was in really good position most of the time, but he wouldn't get his head around for the INT. He had a couple bad tackling attempts, but for the most part his problem was just turning around.

Vontae got beat a bit more and that was cause he gambled a bit more. But Vontae also was a huge difference maker for us too this season. I think we're set at CB.

Even with both's ups and downs, they were hurt badly by poor deep coverage by both Bell and Wilson. There were several plays I saw where Smith and/or Davis were either short coverage or trailing coverage but our safeties were slow getting over to deep coverage.

Big plays by WRs aren't always CBs faults, we played our safeties deep a lot due to our rookies, and both safeties still played too shallow (that of course could be cause of our LBs being drek in coverage)

Nappy Roots
01-07-2010, 12:17 PM
Bell is just as much of a worry. Biggest difference is Bell was able to chase people down from behind, but there is a reason why the second part of the season we saw Culver and Clemons come in at the same time. Plus, neither safety has been forcing TOs (Bell's INT was a gimme).

As for Smith like WB said, he was in really good position most of the time, but he wouldn't get his head around for the INT. He had a couple bad tackling attempts, but for the most part his problem was just turning around.

Vontae got beat a bit more and that was cause he gambled a bit more. But Vontae also was a huge difference maker for us too this season. I think we're set at CB.

Even with both's ups and downs, they were hurt badly by poor deep coverage by both Bell and Wilson. There were several plays I saw where Smith and/or Davis were either short coverage or trailing coverage but our safeties were slow getting over to deep coverage.

Big plays by WRs aren't always CBs faults, we played our safeties deep a lot due to our rookies, and both safeties still played too shallow (that of course could be cause of our LBs being drek in coverage)


actually you hardly ever saw culver in and bell taken out. towards the end they started putting culver in and moving bell into the box as a cover LB because we have probably the worst cover LBs in the league...

DOC33
01-07-2010, 12:38 PM
Jacob Lacey Undrafted: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=12993

Smith and White in the 2nd is the worst drafting job in a long time.


Lacey playes in the Colts cover 2 scheme with safety help 90%of the time so obviously he is not going to get burt most of the time. Our Safeties are playing press man coverage a majority of the time so any minor mistake is going to be much more obvious. The fact that MIA did not change their scheme to protect the 2 young corners tells you 2 things. First they thing very highly of these players and figure they can handle the pressure and difficulty of playing man. Number 2 they were willing to sacrifice some this season to give these guys the experience the will need in the future.

fgrocker
01-07-2010, 04:20 PM
Back to the rankings...

Assuming Berry and Suh are the only players not available:

1. Rolando McClain (I might actually cry if he goes before #12)
2. Dez Bryant (has a great shot to be a playmaker, hopefully would develop into a #1)
3. Russell Okung (how can we not take him if he drops and McClain and Bryant are gone??)
4. Earl Thomas (a safety with coverage skills? sign me up!)
5. Joe Haden (can't pass up a shutdown corner)

macdowa
01-07-2010, 05:30 PM
1. Rolando McClain (Can't see him fall past Denver)
2. Dez Bryant (A shot at a true #1)
3. Dan Williams(hopefully after a trade down )
4. Earl Thomas (A FS and a SS > 2SS!)
5. CJ Spiller (can be the wow factor Ginn was meant to be)


I believe that QB's will fall this year and that 12 may be a good spot to trade this year. Rounds 2 and 3/4 could boost our LB core

Arsenal WV
01-07-2010, 06:21 PM
1. McClain
2. Cody
3. Bryant
4. Spiller
5. Norwood

kwansolo
01-08-2010, 02:35 PM
1. Dez Bryant
2. C.J. Spiller
3. Brandon Spike
4. Terrence Cody
5. Golden Tate