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FinsFanatic777
01-10-2010, 08:27 PM
Just a few thoughts on this game...

-Does anyone else see Bryant McFadden getting burned? It looks like on every big play the Packers are making he's had a missed assignment. He got burned by Jennings, Finley, and now Driver.

-Arizona's defense is totally out of gas. They were dominant in the first two quarters, and now it reminds me of how the Saints ran over the Dolphins' D in the second half after first half domination by Miami. Arizona's defensive line is way too slow for Aaron Rodgers, who's having a lot of success throwing on the run and out of the pocket.

-Charles Woodson is destroying Larry Fitzgerald. Fitzgerald's two TD's came when Woodson fell to the ground. When Woodson and Fitzgerald are on par, he has been the dominating force.

-Jermichael Finley is killing the Cardinal's defense, much like how TE's killed our defense. This just emphasizes the need for better and more athletic LB's.

-Arizona has scored 38 (or more, depending on the rest of the game) without the help of Anquan Boldin... So the Cardinals can still have an explosive offense without Boldin? Hm...

hooshoops
01-10-2010, 09:04 PM
and there's a hands to the face on the qb uncalled and zona wins...figures the refs would miss a call

finfan54
01-10-2010, 09:22 PM
wondering if Steve Breaston will be a FA this offseason? I heard people mention him and I wasnt interested then....thats changed.

Breed
01-10-2010, 10:20 PM
and there's a hands to the face on the qb uncalled and zona wins...figures the refs would miss a call

I was reading the ESPN Green Bay board and it is chaos. Mostly trolls, but there are actually a few Packers fans that put the loss on Rodgers. How many teams have ever lost in the Playoffs after scoring 45 points or more? Answer, the 2009 Green Bay Packers. Apparently, Rodgers is a "loser" that only "pads his stats" and "can't win the big game". I hope the Packers front office feels that way, I'd love to have that kind of "loser" leading the Dolphins.

hooshoops
01-10-2010, 10:22 PM
there's only 1 issue i have with rodgers...and that's that he holds onto the ball way too long and takes sacks he shouldn't take instead of throwing the ball away

i think he's a heck of a nfl qb overall

Breed
01-10-2010, 10:26 PM
there's only 1 issue i have with rodgers...and that's that he holds onto the ball way too long and takes sacks he shouldn't take instead of throwing the ball away

i think he's a heck of a nfl qb overall

In that respect, he's like Roethlisberger, only he doesn't get sacked quite as much and is more athletic. IMO, he's a top 5 NFL QB. If that Packers team can get a defense that can play decently against good offenses, Rodgers will win multiple Championships.

hooshoops
01-10-2010, 10:27 PM
In that respect, he's like Roethlisberger, only he doesn't get sacked quite as much and is more athletic. IMO, he's a top 5 NFL QB. If that Packers team can get a defense that can play decently against good offenses, Rodgers will win multiple Championships.

yep...he's definitely in the top 10 in the league for me...i can tell you that...very good player

2413fanphins
01-10-2010, 11:20 PM
rodgers isn't in my top five qb's.

please dont' gripe about a missed call on the last play, GB got plenty of questionable calls. arizona got a few as well.

I can see the loss being on rodgers. he turned it over leading to arizona td.

much like the loss would have been on rackers if Arizona lost.

I can also see the pad stats comment. his receivers are great at yards after catch.

he gets sacked way too many times, and to date hasn't won the big game. 0-2 against a favre led vikes team, and no playoff wins. don't see where the GB boards are that out of line.

GB can keep him, I like what we have here.

and I think GB has a top five pass defense. kurt warner is just a god thats all.

hooshoops
01-10-2010, 11:32 PM
rodgers isn't in my top five qb's.

please dont' gripe about a missed call on the last play, GB got plenty of questionable calls. arizona got a few as well.

I can see the loss being on rodgers. he turned it over leading to arizona td.

much like the loss would have been on rackers if Arizona lost.

I can also see the pad stats comment. his receivers are great at yards after catch.

he gets sacked way too many times, and to date hasn't won the big game. 0-2 against a favre led vikes team, and no playoff wins. don't see where the GB boards are that out of line.

GB can keep him, I like what we have here.

and I think GB has a top five pass defense. kurt warner is just a god thats all.

was it a penalty or not??? yes it was and it was missed...period

and instead of a 1st and 10 at the 20 it was season over for green bay

Ricky4Life
01-10-2010, 11:37 PM
wondering if Steve Breaston will be a FA this offseason? I heard people mention him and I wasnt interested then....thats changed.


I believe he is a RFA.

hooshoops
01-10-2010, 11:43 PM
yeah...that looks like a clean play to end the game

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2010/01/769482-1.jpg

Breed
01-11-2010, 12:33 AM
rodgers isn't in my top five qb's.

please dont' gripe about a missed call on the last play, GB got plenty of questionable calls. arizona got a few as well.

I can see the loss being on rodgers. he turned it over leading to arizona td.

much like the loss would have been on rackers if Arizona lost.

I can also see the pad stats comment. his receivers are great at yards after catch.

he gets sacked way too many times, and to date hasn't won the big game. 0-2 against a favre led vikes team, and no playoff wins. don't see where the GB boards are that out of line.

GB can keep him, I like what we have here.

and I think GB has a top five pass defense. kurt warner is just a god thats all.

He's in my top 5, that's for damn sure. Green Bay scored 45 points on offense, 45 points.....let that sink in. Rodgers was the only reason the Packers were in the game. No team has ever scored more points and lost in a Playoff game.

Aaron Rodgers does tend to hold onto the ball too long, but he still gets sacked less than Rothlisberger, and is a better athlete too. As for his receivers getting YAC, the same can be said for the Steelers, Colts, Patriots, Saints, Chargers etc. Basically any team with a franchise QB.

I like Henne, but he's not close to being the QB that Rodgers is.

Ricky4Life
01-11-2010, 02:41 AM
yeah...that looks like a clean play to end the game

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2010/01/769482-1.jpg

You mean like Haynes was called for that horse collar, but by the rule he has to immediately be brought down for a horse collar which did not happen because he still dragged him for a few yards.

2413fanphins
01-11-2010, 10:45 AM
was it a penalty or not??? yes it was and it was missed...period

and instead of a 1st and 10 at the 20 it was season over for green bay


did he fumble before or after the hands to the face. did the refs get every call right all game. DID THEY MISS NO OTHER CALLS.

the refs didn't loose the game for aaron rodgers. he could learn to throw the ball away under pressure instead of taking so many sacks. sometimes punting the ball isn't a bad idea. it's certainly a better alternative to turning it over.

2413fanphins
01-11-2010, 10:46 AM
You mean like Haynes was called for that horse collar, but by the rule he has to immediately be brought down for a horse collar which did not happen because he still dragged him for a few yards.


having a hard time deciding if rodgers has control of the ball or not...

looks plenty loose to me. FUMBLE

2413fanphins
01-11-2010, 10:51 AM
He's in my top 5, that's for damn sure. Green Bay scored 45 points on offense, 45 points.....let that sink in. Rodgers was the only reason the Packers were in the game. No team has ever scored more points and lost in a Playoff game.

Aaron Rodgers does tend to hold onto the ball too long, but he still gets sacked less than Rothlisberger, and is a better athlete too. As for his receivers getting YAC, the same can be said for the Steelers, Colts, Patriots, Saints, Chargers etc. Basically any team with a franchise QB.

I like Henne, but he's not close to being the QB that Rodgers is.


they both got sacked 50 times this year.... 50... let that sink in. losing 306 yards in the process.


peyton
drew brees
kurt warner
romo
favre
rivers
brady

all in front of rodgers without even thinking about it.

moley6969
01-11-2010, 11:00 AM
Just a few thoughts on this game...

-Does anyone else see Bryant McFadden getting burned? It looks like on every big play the Packers are making he's had a missed assignment. He got burned by Jennings, Finley, and now Driver.

-Arizona's defense is totally out of gas. They were dominant in the first two quarters, and now it reminds me of how the Saints ran over the Dolphins' D in the second half after first half domination by Miami. Arizona's defensive line is way too slow for Aaron Rodgers, who's having a lot of success throwing on the run and out of the pocket.

-Charles Woodson is destroying Larry Fitzgerald. Fitzgerald's two TD's came when Woodson fell to the ground. When Woodson and Fitzgerald are on par, he has been the dominating force.

-Jermichael Finley is killing the Cardinal's defense, much like how TE's killed our defense. This just emphasizes the need for better and more athletic LB's.

-Arizona has scored 38 (or more, depending on the rest of the game) without the help of Anquan Boldin... So the Cardinals can still have an explosive offense without Boldin? Hm...


yep for me boldin is a goner in arizona ,the development of breaston,doucet,and urban means for me he is available in a trade

not that i would want him in miami ,injurys continue to mount and he would want a new ,bigger contract ,not for me

Breed
01-11-2010, 11:42 AM
did he fumble before or after the hands to the face. did the refs get every call right all game. DID THEY MISS NO OTHER CALLS.

the refs didn't loose the game for aaron rodgers. he could learn to throw the ball away under pressure instead of taking so many sacks. sometimes punting the ball isn't a bad idea. it's certainly a better alternative to turning it over.

He took some sacks, but that didn't effect their offense as they still scored 45 points, an accomplishment that has only happened a handful of times in NFL history, with none of those teams losing except for the '09 Packers. How can anyone put the blame on Aaron Rodgers when their defense had one of the worst performances in postseason history? As for Rodgers turning it over, he turned it over twice (the one in overtime sticks out, but he was also facemasked), but he had almost no margin for error.

Breed
01-11-2010, 11:50 AM
they both got sacked 50 times this year.... 50... let that sink in. losing 306 yards in the process.

Part of that is due to him holding onto the ball too long and part of that is due to a piss poor OL. That didn't keep the Packers from setting a franchise record for points scored in a season, just like it didn't keep the Packers from putting up 45 points on the Cardinals. That Packers defense is what kept them from winning that game, anyone who says otherwise is a fool.



peyton
drew brees
kurt warner
romo
favre
rivers
brady

all in front of rodgers without even thinking about it.

The only quarterbacks from that list I would take over Rodgers are Brees, Manning and Romo. Brady is still great, but he's not what he once was. Warner has had a great career and is easily the best postseason perfomer of those guys listed, but he's had problems with turnovers in the regular season, much like Favre. I put Romo ahead of Rodgers because (similar quarterbacks, but Romo takes fewer sacks), like Rodgers, Romo's best days are ahead of him.

hooshoops
01-11-2010, 12:05 PM
did he fumble before or after the hands to the face. did the refs get every call right all game. DID THEY MISS NO OTHER CALLS.

the refs didn't loose the game for aaron rodgers. he could learn to throw the ball away under pressure instead of taking so many sacks. sometimes punting the ball isn't a bad idea. it's certainly a better alternative to turning it over.

learn the rules and then talk to me :rolleyes2:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/11/replay-review-wasnt-available-for-facemask-roughing-non-call/

Kdawg954
01-11-2010, 12:13 PM
they both got sacked 50 times this year.... 50... let that sink in. losing 306 yards in the process.


peyton
drew brees
kurt warner
romo
favre
rivers
brady

all in front of rodgers without even thinking about it.

If I were to factor in age to the mix, the only QB's I put ahead of Rogers are:

Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Tom Brady
Phillip Rivers
Ben Rothlesberger

Those are the 5 elite QB's in the NFL (not including Warner and Favre, whom both are great, but will retire after this year)

The next group is headed by Rogers, Romo, McNabb and Eli Manning. I'll round out that group with Matt Schaub and Carson Palmer (overrated, but I'll give him another year before I drop him out the top 11).

Then u follow that group with guys like Matt Ryan, Jay Cutler, Joe Flacco, Matt Cassell and Vince Young, guys with 2+ years of experience who may join that 2nd tier group sooner than later.

Then you have the 1 years of experience guys who look to make the next step in Matt Stafford, Chad Henne, Mark Sanchez and Josh Freeman

U have Tavarias Jackson and Matt Leinart . . . 2 guys who are backups, who look to take on starter roles next season.

One wildcard in Michael Vick

Some quality young backup QB's like Kevin Kolb, Tyler Thigpen and others who are awaiting their chance. Henne would be in this list if he didn't get his chance.

Then u have question mark QB's like Jason Campbell, Kyle Orton, Alex Smith, Jake Delhomme, David Garrard, Matt Hasselback, Mark Bulger, Jamarcus Russell, Quinn/Anderson and Trent Edwards . . . guys who maybe starting next year or could be backups next year.


Rogers is NOT an elite QB, not yet atleast . . . but ur crazy if u think he wouldn't be an upgrade over Henne/Pennington (not that u said that, just saying). . . he would come to a team with a better Oline and running game, he could be a beast in Miami.

2413fanphins
01-11-2010, 12:56 PM
learn the rules and then talk to me :rolleyes2:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/11/replay-review-wasnt-available-for-facemask-roughing-non-call/



speaking of rules, maybe you could put up a link defining the horsecollar tackle rule.

it works both ways brother. he fumbled, they lost. get over it.

RealDriscoll
01-11-2010, 12:59 PM
Ravens are going to win the Super-Bowl IMO

RealDriscoll
01-11-2010, 01:00 PM
In your opinion Rodgers might not be an "elite" Quarterback but according to his statistics he is. He didn't lose that game yesterday... The Defense gave up over forty points

2413fanphins
01-11-2010, 01:00 PM
Part of that is due to him holding onto the ball too long and part of that is due to a piss poor OL. That didn't keep the Packers from setting a franchise record for points scored in a season, just like it didn't keep the Packers from putting up 45 points on the Cardinals. That Packers defense is what kept them from winning that game, anyone who says otherwise is a fool.



The only quarterbacks from that list I would take over Rodgers are Brees, Manning and Romo. Brady is still great, but he's not what he once was. Warner has had a great career and is easily the best postseason perfomer of those guys listed, but he's had problems with turnovers in the regular season, much like Favre. I put Romo ahead of Rodgers because (similar quarterbacks, but Romo takes fewer sacks), like Rodgers, Romo's best days are ahead of him.


SO I guess GB is all rodgers when they win and all a piss poor oline when they loose. the packers defense is what kept them from winning the game? You could factor in the arizona defense as well, they didn't exactly play lights out.

so by your logic the packers set a single season pts scoring record with absolutely no credit due to therr piss poor oline.

the fact that you would take rogers over brady is enough to make me pay very little more attention to the rest of your posts.

we could debate all day and come up with hundreds of factors to put rodgers number one. but at the end of the day he's still a guy who got sacked 50 times, and hasn't won any playoff games.
how you can put him ahead of any of those other qb's is beyond me.

warner is one of the most prolific passers in POSTSEASON history, you know the season that matters!

2413fanphins
01-11-2010, 01:02 PM
In your opinion Rodgers might not be an "elite" Quarterback but according to his statistics he is. He didn't lose that game yesterday... The Defense gave up over forty points


remind me how many pts arizona gave up? am I to believe the arizona defense won the game for the cardinals than?

he may be elite.
but he's elite at racking up yards, and this year throwing td's.

but he's also elite and getting sacked, and losing yardage.
also elite at not winning in the postseason.

he's good. that's about I'll give him credit for. borderline topten qb... not a top five for sure.

to each his own.

2413fanphins
01-11-2010, 01:07 PM
If I were to factor in age to the mix, the only QB's I put ahead of Rogers are:

Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Tom Brady
Phillip Rivers
Ben Rothlesberger

Those are the 5 elite QB's in the NFL (not including Warner and Favre, whom both are great, but will retire after this year)

The next group is headed by Rogers, Romo, McNabb and Eli Manning. I'll round out that group with Matt Schaub and Carson Palmer (overrated, but I'll give him another year before I drop him out the top 11).

Then u follow that group with guys like Matt Ryan, Jay Cutler, Joe Flacco, Matt Cassell and Vince Young, guys with 2+ years of experience who may join that 2nd tier group sooner than later.

Then you have the 1 years of experience guys who look to make the next step in Matt Stafford, Chad Henne, Mark Sanchez and Josh Freeman

U have Tavarias Jackson and Matt Leinart . . . 2 guys who are backups, who look to take on starter roles next season.

One wildcard in Michael Vick

Some quality young backup QB's like Kevin Kolb, Tyler Thigpen and others who are awaiting their chance. Henne would be in this list if he didn't get his chance.

Then u have question mark QB's like Jason Campbell, Kyle Orton, Alex Smith, Jake Delhomme, David Garrard, Matt Hasselback, Mark Bulger, Jamarcus Russell, Quinn/Anderson and Trent Edwards . . . guys who maybe starting next year or could be backups next year.


Rogers is NOT an elite QB, not yet atleast . . . but ur crazy if u think he wouldn't be an upgrade over Henne/Pennington (not that u said that, just saying). . . he would come to a team with a better Oline and running game, he could be a beast in Miami.


finally, some logic I can follow. although merely assuming that favre and warner will retire is hardly merit for putting rodgers anywhere near their category. not that you did, but if your heading that direction....

mcnabb and eli manning have both found quite a bit of success in the postseason. eli is a superbowl champion qb. romo is like a carbon copy of rodgers to me, so it's hard to seperate them. they both complete a few deep balls a game, but benefit mainly by the WR's, RB's and TE's, yards after catch.

the rest of your post is pretty much spot on. as far rodgers being an upgrade over henne, sure he is. but we've seen 13 starts from henne, with little to no weaponry. the GB offense is light years ahead the dolphins as far as skill positions go.

good post.

hooshoops
01-11-2010, 01:08 PM
speaking of rules, maybe you could put up a link defining the horsecollar tackle rule.

it works both ways brother. he fumbled, they lost. get over it.

i wasn't talking about those other calls...i was talking about that specific one...and then you had to come in and throw out a "sure looked like the ball was out of his hand prior to the facemask" which even if it was or wasn't it's still a penalty...

so next time you feel the need to go off about a call that you have no idea what you're talking about maybe you should google the subject first...

2413fanphins
01-11-2010, 01:14 PM
learn the rules and then talk to me :rolleyes2:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/11/replay-review-wasnt-available-for-facemask-roughing-non-call/


Also, Rule 12, Section 2, Article 13(3) plainly states that defenders may not "hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer in the head, neck, or face."....

there was a noncall on warner on his td to fitz as I recall. but you failed to mention that.

I'd still have to see a replay to see when arod lost control of the ball and when the infraction occured.

I'd also like clarification on a ruling when a player looses control of the ball in relation to when infractions occur.

2413fanphins
01-11-2010, 01:15 PM
i wasn't talking about those other calls...i was talking about that specific one...and then you had to come in and throw out a "sure looked like the ball was out of his hand prior to the facemask" which even if it was or wasn't it's still a penalty...

so next time you feel the need to go off about a call that you have no idea what you're talking about maybe you should google the subject first...


so in your mind, the ONE missed call of many on the night, is what determined the outcome of the game.

you don't have to get all bent out shape man. it's just deliberation. I happen to disagree with your stance, some others agree.
damn you need a budweiser or something.

hooshoops
01-11-2010, 01:20 PM
so in your mind, the ONE missed call of many on the night, is what determined the outcome of the game.

you don't have to get all bent out shape man. it's just deliberation. I happen to disagree with your stance, some others agree.
damn you need a budweiser or something.

sure there's missed calls...there's missed calls every game...but i wasn't referring to any other call...i was referring to that specific one which is why that was the only call i referenced...

and that SPECIFIC non call resulted in the packers going home for the season... true or not true???

that's my only point

i don't care about zona or the packers...

RealDriscoll
01-11-2010, 01:27 PM
Sure you should belive the Cardinals defense won them the game b/c they did. Wasn't it a Karlos Dansby fumble recovery for a touchdown that won it for them in overtime?

Bumpus
01-11-2010, 02:44 PM
Why is this thread in the DRAFT FORUM?

ZachThomas76
01-11-2010, 03:06 PM
Anyway, watching Finley in this game and Keller against Cincy, I dont know what else Parcells needs to see to get with the times at TE. Maybe his defense getting sliced apart all year might have been his first hint.

Breed
01-11-2010, 04:21 PM
SO I guess GB is all rodgers when they win and all a piss poor oline when they loose. the packers defense is what kept them from winning the game? You could factor in the arizona defense as well, they didn't exactly play lights out.

Any time your offense puts up 45 points, you should win the game. Rodgers had a great game, I'm not even sure how this can be disputed, however, Warner had what was quite possibly the greatest postseason game ever for a QB.


so by your logic the packers set a single season pts scoring record with absolutely no credit due to therr piss poor oline.

Their OL isn't good, but it's not the reason they lost. Their so called good defense lost the game by not even slowing down the Cardinals offense (passing or rushing).


the fact that you would take rogers over brady is enough to make me pay very little more attention to the rest of your posts.

The fact that you don't want Rodgers because we have Henne speaks volumes about your football knowledge.

As for Brady, we are talking about recent history, correct? Going back to the '07 Superbowl, Brady hasn't been the Brady of old.


we could debate all day and come up with hundreds of factors to put rodgers number one. but at the end of the day he's still a guy who got sacked 50 times, and hasn't won any playoff games.
how you can put him ahead of any of those other qb's is beyond me.

He's only played one postseason game, anybody who knows anything about statistics knows the larger the sample size (given the same condition), the more accurate the sample size.


warner is one of the most prolific passers in POSTSEASON history, you know the season that matters!

You're acting as if Rodgers played poorly against the Cardinals. Rodgers had an incredible game. Most quarterbacks would kill to have a postseason game like the one Rodgers had.


peyton
drew brees
kurt warner
romo
favre
rivers
brady

Regular season numbers since '08:

Touchdown/Turnover (passing touchdowns + rushing touchdowns/interceptions + lost fumbles):
Rodgers: 2.48 (67/27)
Rivers: 2.33 (63/27)
Manning: 2.18 (61/28)
Brees: 2 (70/35)
Brady: 1.93 (29/15)
Favre: 1.70 (56/33)
McNabb: 1.69 (49/29)
Romo: 1.61 (53/33)
Warner: 1.37 (56/41)
Roethlisberger: 1.27 (47/37)

Yards per passing play (passing yards - sack yards/passing attempts + sacks):
Rivers: 7.84
Brees: 7.81
Brady: 7.42
Manning: 7.25
Romo: 7.22
Warner: 6.88
Rodgers: 6.84
McNabb: 6.58
Roethlisberger: 6.53
Favre: 6.46

Completion %:
Manning: 67.85
Brees: 67.54
Favre: 67.01
Warner: 66.61
Brady: 65.66
Rivers: 65.25
Rodgers: 64.16
Roethlisberger: 63.39
Romo: 62.3
McNabb: 60.36

YPC:
Rodgers: 4.59
McNabb: 3.78
Roethlisberger: 2.47
Rivers: 2.35
Romo: 2.32
Favre: 1.67
Brady: 1.52
Brees: .73
Manning: .21
Warner: .21

Drop backs per sack:
Manning: 47.92
Brady: 36.31
Brees: 35.82
Warner: 23.22
Rivers: 20.28
Romo: 19.52
McNabb: 18.48
Favre: 17.45
Rodgers: 13.82
Roethlisberger: 11.16

If we're talking about career, there's no question, the likes of Warner, Manning, Brady, and Favre are clearly ahead of Rodgers. However, Rodgers stacks up very well statistically against some of the premiere quarterbacks in the NFL since his starting debut in 2008.

2413fanphins
01-11-2010, 04:58 PM
Any time your offense puts up 45 points, you should win the game. Rodgers had a great game, I'm not even sure how this can be disputed, however, Warner had what was quite possibly the greatest postseason game ever for a QB.



Their OL isn't good, but it's not the reason they lost. Their so called good defense lost the game by not even slowing down the Cardinals offense (passing or rushing).



The fact that you don't want Rodgers because we have Henne speaks volumes about your football knowledge.

As for Brady, we are talking about recent history, correct? Going back to the '07 Superbowl, Brady hasn't been the Brady of old.



He's only played one postseason game, anybody who knows anything about statistics knows the larger the sample size (given the same condition), the more accurate the sample size.



You're acting as if Rodgers played poorly against the Cardinals. Rodgers had an incredible game. Most quarterbacks would kill to have a postseason game like the one Rodgers had.



Regular season numbers since '08:

Touchdown/Turnover (passing touchdowns + rushing touchdowns/interceptions + lost fumbles):
Rodgers: 2.48 (67/27)
Rivers: 2.33 (63/27)
Manning: 2.18 (61/28)
Brees: 2 (70/35)
Brady: 1.93 (29/15)
Favre: 1.70 (56/33)
McNabb: 1.69 (49/29)
Romo: 1.61 (53/33)
Warner: 1.37 (56/41)
Roethlisberger: 1.27 (47/37)

Yards per passing play (passing yards - sack yards/passing attempts + sacks):
Rivers: 7.84
Brees: 7.81
Brady: 7.42
Manning: 7.25
Romo: 7.22
Warner: 6.88
Rodgers: 6.84
McNabb: 6.58
Roethlisberger: 6.53
Favre: 6.46

Completion %:
Warner: 69.31
Manning: 67.85
Brees: 67.54
Favre: 67.01
Brady: 65.66
Rivers: 65.25
Rodgers: 64.16
Roethlisberger: 63.39
Romo: 62.3
McNabb: 60.36

YPC:
Rodgers: 4.59
McNabb: 3.78
Roethlisberger: 2.47
Rivers: 2.35
Romo: 2.32
Favre: 1.67
Brady: 1.52
Brees: .73
Manning: .21
Warner: .21

Drop backs per sack:
Manning: 47.92
Brady: 36.31
Brees: 35.82
Warner: 23.22
Rivers: 20.28
Romo: 19.52
McNabb: 18.48
Favre: 17.45
Rodgers: 13.82
Roethlisberger: 11.16

If we're talking about career, there's no question, the likes of Warner, Manning, Brady, and Favre are clearly ahead of Rodgers. However, Rodgers stacks up very well statistically against some of the premiere quarterbacks in the NFL since his starting debut in 2008.


this is the last time I am going to break it down for you. one bold quoted paragraph at a time. You really put a lot of work into dissecting my post.
anyway...

yes rodgers had a good game... remind who disputed that. you were questioning how it can be disputed... I am questioning when it was disputed.

as you put it, there so called good defense played poorly. so is it a fluke that throughout a 16 game season they were ranked 5th against the pass? kurt warner is a god. better than aaron rodgers. one of my original points. he has been both discounted for being old and a few other reasons. he's better than rodgers, period.

the fact that I don't want rodgers because we have henne speaks nothing more about my football knowledge than the fact that I hate meatballs in my spaghetti. I dont' want rodgers because we have henne. Henne was a high draft pick. henne is coming along fine IMO... these among other reasons is why I am content with henne over rodgers.

brady is better than rodgers. period. since the 07 superbowl there have been circumstances for his numbers falling. anyone who watches the game knows this. I still rate brady higher than rodgers.

sample sizes aside, because obviously the more postseason games you play the more chance you have of winning one... a simple point was made to reference other qb's postseason success as a small barmoter of why I have them ahead of rodgers. not sure why you look so deep into a shallow glass.

your stats while well organized and documented on many other internet sites do little if not next to nothing to prove anything. he stacks up well against other qb's. you said it yourself.
not in my top ten qb's of the league though.. but if it makes you happy I will change my stance to he stacks up nicely when compared to other qb's in the league.

Breed
01-11-2010, 07:03 PM
this is the last time I am going to break it down for you. one bold quoted paragraph at a time. You really put a lot of work into dissecting my post.
anyway...

yes rodgers had a good game... remind who disputed that. you were questioning how it can be disputed... I am questioning when it was disputed..


I can see the loss being on rodgers. he turned it over leading to arizona td.
much like the loss would have been on rackers if Arizona lost.

I can also see the pad stats comment. his receivers are great at yards after catch.

he gets sacked way too many times, and to date hasn't won the big game. 0-2 against a favre led vikes team, and no playoff wins. don't see where the GB boards are that out of line...


the refs didn't loose the game for aaron rodgers. he could learn to throw the ball away under pressure instead of taking so many sacks. sometimes punting the ball isn't a bad idea. it's certainly a better alternative to turning it over.

You certainly seem to be disputing whether or not Rodgers had a good game. In regulation, Rodgers scored 5 touchdowns and turned the ball over once, leading the Packers to 45 points on offense. That should've been more than enough to win just about any game.


as you put it, there so called good defense played poorly. so is it a fluke that throughout a 16 game season they were ranked 5th against the pass?

The Packers played 4 games (the Vikings, Cowboys and Steelers) against good quarerbacks, and their secondary got torched in all but one of those games. Their defense really good against weaker competition, but was absolutely terrible against the good passing games. So yes, their defense was incredibly overrated.


kurt warner is a god. better than aaron rodgers. one of my original points. he has been both discounted for being old and a few other reasons. he's better than rodgers, period.

Career wise, yes, he's definitely better than Rodgers, because he's been doing it longer. However, Rodgers has clearly been better since he began starting in 2008.

Touchdown/Turnover (passing touchdowns + rushing touchdowns/interceptions + lost fumbles):
Rodgers: 2.48 (67/27)
Warner: 1.37 (56/41)

Yards per passing play (passing yards - sack yards/passing attempts + sacks):
Warner: 6.88
Rodgers: 6.84

Completion %:
Warner: 66.61
Rodgers: 64.16

YPC:
Rodgers: 4.59
Warner: .21

Drop backs per sack:
Warner: 23.22
Rodgers: 13.82


I can also see the pad stats comment. his receivers are great at yards after catch.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the Cardinal's receivers really good after the catch?


the fact that I don't want rodgers because we have henne speaks nothing more about my football knowledge than the fact that I hate meatballs in my spaghetti. I dont' want rodgers because we have henne. Henne was a high draft pick. henne is coming along fine IMO... these among other reasons is why I am content with henne over rodgers.

I've made several arguments for Henne on FH, so you aren't going to find many Henne supporters that like him more than I do. Having said that, Rodgers has much better athleticism, does a much better job at using his eyes as a weapon (looking off his receivers etc.) and is far more accurate, not to mention he's far more accomplished than Henne. You're right, who wants a QB that's as talented and accomplished as Rodgers?


brady is better than rodgers. period. since the 07 superbowl there have been circumstances for his numbers falling.

Hence the reason I would currently take Rodgers over Brady, he's not the QB he once was. Maybe he returns to form, maybe not, he's still a hell of a QB, I'd just happen to take Rodgers over him.


anyone who watches the game knows this. I still rate brady higher than rodgers.

That is clearly hearsay....

I don't need stats to tell me that Rodgers looked better than Brady did this year, although they would certainly support that claim.

Touchdown/Turnover (passing touchdowns + rushing touchdowns/interceptions + lost fumbles):
Rodgers: 2.48 (67/27)
Brady: 1.93 (29/15)

Yards per passing play (passing yards - sack yards/passing attempts + sacks):
Brady: 7.42
Rodgers: 6.84

Completion %:
Brady: 65.66
Rodgers: 64.16

YPC:
Rodgers: 4.59
Brady: 1.52

Drop backs per sack:
Brady: 36.31
Rodgers: 13.82

If I were to put the quarterbacks into tiers, I'd have them listed like the following:
Tier 1: Drew Brees and Peyton Manning (IMO, Brees is the better QB right now, granted Manning has clearly had the better career)

Tier 2: Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers, Philip Rivers, Tom Brady. Maybe Tom Brady rebounds next year, who knows.

Tier 3: Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, Ben Roethlisberger, Donovan McNabb, Matt Ryan, Matt Schaub.


sample sizes aside, because obviously the more postseason games you play the more chance you have of winning one... a simple point was made to reference other qb's postseason success as a small barmoter of why I have them ahead of rodgers. not sure why you look so deep into a shallow glass.

Outside of Kurt Warner, how many of those quarterbacks have led their offense to 45 points in a postseason game. I know it's only 1 game, but it's not like you can red flag it and say, "that one game was pretty bad, it looks like he can't win the big game".


your stats while well organized and documented on many other internet sites do little if not next to nothing to prove anything. he stacks up well against other qb's. you said it yourself.
not in my top ten qb's of the league though.. but if it makes you happy I will change my stance to he stacks up nicely when compared to other qb's in the league.

I'm not aware of any sites that take break down the yards per passing play by taking into account the sacks and sack yardage lost, which is Rodgers biggest knock. Even so, Rodgers compares favorably to most of the quarterbacks that I listed.

I can understand someone ranking Rodgers just outside the top 5, but it's mind boggling to me how anyone can say Rodgers isn't a top 10 NFL QB.

I'm curious, who are these 10 quarterbacks that are better than Aaron Rodgers? Also, if you were building a franchise for the long-term, who would be your top 5 choices at QB?

Breed
01-11-2010, 07:24 PM
"Let me tell you something - that dude is scary," Arizona free safety Antrel Rolle(notes) said of Rodgers. "We have a great defense, and we were up on him and ready to pounce, and he found ways to tear us apart.

"I don't ever want to face him again in my life. I am dead serious. I'll face Drew Brees any day of the week before I face him again."


Cardinals cornerback Michael Adams causes an Aaron Rodgers fumble in overtime. Arizona's Karlos Dansby recovered the fumble and ran it in for a touchdown. Arizona won 51-45.
(Matt York/AP Photo)
Added Pro Bowl strong safety Adrian Wilson(notes): "Hey, nobody ever said the guy was a bad player. But to have him actually do what he did to us in the second half was unbelievable. He was on fire. The whole half. The guy was just amazing."

The Cardinals' star wideout, Larry Fitzgerald(notes), was equally impressed. "Aaron Rodgers threw for about, what, 700 yards today?" he asked, laughing. "You've got to tip your hat to the Packers. Those guys - let's just say we wouldn't want to play them again. And he is a special, special, special talent

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-rodgersplayoffdebut011010&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I also seem to recall Donald Driver and Charles Woodson saying Aaron Rodgers is the best QB in the NFL when he has time to thow. But what do they know?

2413fanphins
01-11-2010, 08:15 PM
[quote=Breed;1063287777]"Let me tell you something - that dude is scary," Arizona free safety Antrel Rolle(notes) said of Rodgers. "We have a great defense, and we were up on him and ready to pounce, and he found ways to tear us apart.

"I don't ever want to face him again in my life. I am dead serious. I'll face Drew Brees any day of the week before I face him again."


Cardinals cornerback Michael Adams causes an Aaron Rodgers fumble in overtime. Arizona's Karlos Dansby recovered the fumble and ran it in for a touchdown. Arizona won 51-45.
(Matt York/AP Photo)
Added Pro Bowl strong safety Adrian Wilson(notes): "Hey, nobody ever said the guy was a bad player. But to have him actually do what he did to us in the second half was unbelievable. He was on fire. The whole half. The guy was just amazing."

The Cardinals' star wideout, Larry Fitzgerald(notes), was equally impressed. "Aaron Rodgers threw for about, what, 700 yards today?" he asked, laughing. "You've got to tip your hat to the Packers. Those guys - let's just say we wouldn't want to play them again. And he is a special, special, special talent

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-rodgersplayoffdebut011010&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I also seem to recall Donald Driver and Charles Woodson saying Aaron Rodgers is the best QB in the NFL when he has time to thow. But what do they know?[/quo

guess it's settled than. rodgers is the greatest.

funny we can't compare body of work when it's arod against warner... yet it's totally acceptable to do so when comparing him to henne.

If all you insist on doing is twisting my words to support your argument we will get nowhere.
I said I can understand the GB forums saying the loss was rodgers. He fumbled that ball, leading to an arizona td.
again, I can understand their statement. I don't necessarily agree with them. I guess that means, in your eyes, that I think arod played poorly and had a bad game. this logic is quite confusing to me.

rodgers is way more accurate than henne... really define way more accurate. by my account arod throws at a 64% completion rate while henne hovers around 60%. 4 balls out of 100 and he's way more accurate.
far more accomplished than henne... how so. playoff victories? superbowls?
again, I think arod is probably better than henne, but far more accomplished, I'm not sure how you can say that.


I said I was done going back and forth with you and I am, you dissect my posts like a science experiment, from what I can tell without even reading them, only to completely misunderstand them and than follow up with a bunch of info on your man crush of aaron rodgers.

so who here on these forums has drew brees rated below aaron rodgers....just antrelle rolle... I thought so.

when your done breaking all that down, I will probably find myself reading it. but it will be followed by a head shake, and a click of the mouse to something relevant.

2413fanphins
01-11-2010, 08:19 PM
sure there's missed calls...there's missed calls every game...but i wasn't referring to any other call...i was referring to that specific one which is why that was the only call i referenced...

and that SPECIFIC non call resulted in the packers going home for the season... true or not true???

that's my only point

i don't care about zona or the packers...


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AneQ1NdOjj9I5LSNfFN9eQz.uLYF?slug=capress-fbn_packers_rodgers_facemask-116330033&prov=capress&type=lgns

doesnt' do much to clarify other than it sounds like rodgers was indifferent to it.
evidently they thought it was inadvertant facemask, in which case the infraction was eliminated before the 08 season.

its a short read. but I just came across it, so thought I'd share it.

Breed
01-11-2010, 11:27 PM
guess it's settled than. rodgers is the greatest.

so who here on these forums has drew brees rated below aaron rodgers....just antrelle rolle... I thought so.

He's obviously not the greatest, but he is in that 2nd tier of really good quarterbacks. While it's probably split on people that think he's in the top 5, he's definitely top 10, and closer to 5 (I have him as the 4th best NFL QB) than 10.


funny we can't compare body of work when it's arod against warner... yet it's totally acceptable to do so when comparing him to henne.

Warner is an 11 year starter, Rodgers is a 2 year starter and Henne is a 1 year starter. You figure it out....


If all you insist on doing is twisting my words to support your argument we will get nowhere.
I said I can understand the GB forums saying the loss was rodgers. He fumbled that ball, leading to an arizona td.
again, I can understand their statement. I don't necessarily agree with them. I guess that means, in your eyes, that I think arod played poorly and had a bad game. this logic is quite confusing to me.

You may not have said he had a bad game, but you certainly insinuated it.

As for the GB forums getting on Rodgers, that's only a very small percentage of the posters. Most of the posters I mentioned are Viking/Favre trolls. Most GB fans know what they have in Rodgers.


rodgers is way more accurate than henne... really define way more accurate. by my account arod throws at a 64% completion rate while henne hovers around 60%. 4 balls out of 100 and he's way more accurate.

I've never been one to say Henne has poor accuracy, as a matter of fact, I've always thought he had good accuracy for a young starter. Having said that, Rodgers clearly has better accuracy. I don't care if you go by game film or stats, anybody that watches football would tell you Rodgers has much better accuracy. As for saying 4 balls out of 100 is not big deal, that's almost like saying a .320 hitter (assuming both players have the same number of extra basehits, walks and strike outs) isn't that much better than a .280 hitter. Or a more accurate example: A .640 SLG isn't that much better than a .600 SLG. It may not be a night and day difference, but it is noticeably better.


far more accomplished than henne... how so. playoff victories? superbowls?
again, I think arod is probably better than henne, but far more accomplished, I'm not sure how you can say that.

For starters Rodgers is the first player in NFL history to throw for more than 4,000 yards in each of his first two years starting. The Packers also set a franchise record in '09 for most points scored in a season with an average rushing attack.

Career numbers
Passing Yards
Rodgers: 8,801 (7.7 YPA)
Henne: 2,945 (6.4 YPA)

Completions/attempts
Rodgers: 726/1,136 (63.9)
Henne: 281/463 (60.7)

Rushing Yards
Rodgers: 570 (4.6 YPC)
Henne: 32 (2 YPC)

Touchdowns/Turnovers
Rodgers: 68/31
Henne: 13/14

Yeah, I'd say Rodgers is far more accomplished than Henne.


I said I was done going back and forth with you and I am, you dissect my posts like a science experiment, from what I can tell without even reading them, only to completely misunderstand them and than follow up with a bunch of info on your man crush of aaron rodgers.

when your done breaking all that down, I will probably find myself reading it. but it will be followed by a head shake, and a click of the mouse to something relevant.

If someone were to mention Brees as being a top 5-10 NFL QB, I would probably say something to that as well, as Brees is, IMO, the best QB in the NFL right now. That's not to say he's had a better career than Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, but he is a better QB right now. I guess I have a mancrush on really good quarterbacks.

2413fanphins
01-12-2010, 05:57 PM
shaking head, and clicking mouse.