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ckparrothead
01-26-2010, 12:33 PM
http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnists/hyde/blog/2010/01/breaking_down_the_dolphins_dra.html

Boomer (Simon Clancy) has re-ignited his Draft Winds segment with the Sun Sentinel via Dave Hyde's blog.

This time, we're doing it in conjunction with Universal Draft so that both Richard Lines and myself will be contributing as we go.

ChambersWI
01-26-2010, 12:42 PM
as always good stuff. Finally glad somebody else sees Jay Ratliff in Odrick.

Conuficus
01-26-2010, 12:45 PM
http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnists/hyde/blog/2010/01/breaking_down_the_dolphins_dra.html

Boomer (Simon Clancy) has re-ignited his Draft Winds segment with the Sun Sentinel via Dave Hyde's blog.

This time, we're doing it in conjunction with Universal Draft so that both Richard Lines and myself will be contributing as we go.

I just posted this. :lol:

BobDole
01-26-2010, 12:50 PM
who wrote that? i only skimmed the offensive portion but the defensive part was the best thing i've read in quite some time. i didn't agree with everything i saw but extraordinary read nonetheless. very impressed.

j-off-her-doll
01-26-2010, 12:53 PM
Merge. But, like I said, great read.

ckparrothead
01-26-2010, 01:12 PM
who wrote that? i only skimmed the offensive portion but the defensive part was the best thing i've read in quite some time. i didn't agree with everything i saw but extraordinary read nonetheless. very impressed.

Boomer wrote it.

Mile High Fin
01-26-2010, 01:20 PM
Thanks for the heads up.
Congrats.....

Great info and analysis......as always.

Oraclepz
01-26-2010, 01:35 PM
great article thanks guys

RealDriscoll
01-26-2010, 01:38 PM
Boomer.. Blegh

paulomac77
01-26-2010, 01:41 PM
Thats a great read! Really havent seen Odrick's name with the 12th pick but why not? I hope we do a complete overhaul of the front 7

RealDriscoll
01-26-2010, 01:51 PM
good write ip though. I don't see Odrick at #12. I don't like Jason Paul Pierre at #12 either

Tunaphish429
01-26-2010, 01:52 PM
I like the idea of putting Merling at SOLB..I really think he should have been playing linebacker all along..

We did have Roth and we needed D line help so I see why he was put there..

But I think he could def be a factor in space..The pick he had against the Jets is just a taste of what he can do for Miami...

j-off-her-doll
01-26-2010, 01:52 PM
If Merling could move to SSOLB (remember CK writing something on this before this season), it'd free up a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd RD pick. I think he has the ability.

ckparrothead
01-26-2010, 01:59 PM
Thats a great read! Really havent seen Odrick's name with the 12th pick but why not? I hope we do a complete overhaul of the front 7

The Dolphins are high on Odrick, as per our sources who speak with people inside the office. They have mentioned him several times.

Conuficus
01-26-2010, 02:04 PM
If Merling could move to SSOLB (remember CK writing something on this before this season), it'd free up a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd RD pick. I think he has the ability.

We had a running discussion about his position when he was drafted. CK and I were in the OLB side and I think KB was on the DL side. That went on for a while IIRC.

Tunaphish429
01-26-2010, 02:05 PM
If Merling could move to SSOLB (remember CK writing something on this before this season), it'd free up a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd RD pick. I think he has the ability.


Yea then we would not have to draft a OLB assuming Wake will be a starter if Joey is gone...

I think we could draft Mclain if he is there...

We would need some more depth at DE but we could easily find a depth player in the mid rounds..

That would be a really good young front 7..

Wake, Crowder, Mclain, Merling

Starks........Soliai.....Langford

Alot of Mocks are now projecting pretty nasty NT like Cody and Williams possilby falling out of the 1st round..someone has to....

If Nolan goes to a 2 gap scheme can Starks play it?

I also wonder Soliai and Langford will fair

ckparrothead
01-26-2010, 02:08 PM
If Merling could move to SSOLB (remember CK writing something on this before this season), it'd free up a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd RD pick. I think he has the ability.

Keep in mind that moving Merling out to SOLB could only be the safety net that allows us to fix the position by drafting only one guy instead of acquiring multiple players. We all know how this regime likes to fix holes by double-picking.

As Simon points out, if you move Merling, then grabbing a Jason Pierre-Paul at #12 and counting on him to help fix the defense would not be such a big gamble. We gambled on Sean Smith and Vontae Davis to fix the secondary and replace Andre Goodman. They did about as well as they could as rookies and yet the secondary was still a huge problem. I don't think you want that at any position, you need good options.

Another thing about moving Merling is, it allows you to keep flipping rocks at the DE position which they consider to be quite possibly the most important on the defense. Personnel is a percentage game. If you roll the dice X number of times, chances are if you're doing your job, you'll win Y number of times. The only way to guarantee you don't win is if you don't roll the dice. Phil Merling took 376 snaps this year along the DL where we could potentially be dishing those snaps out to some guys like Lionel Dotson, Ryan Baker, and some new guys who are begging to get on the field so that they can show us whether they're the next Jay Ratliff or not.

In a way, Phil Merling and Tony McDaniel are extremely solid rotators that help you win games. But in another way, they're drain stoppers that keep you from discovering the next big thing. It might be wise to clear one of those drain stoppers while keeping the other in place...so that you can keep searching for the next star.

Tunaphish429
01-26-2010, 02:08 PM
We had a running discussion about his position when he was drafted. CK and I were in the OLB side and I think KB was on the DL side. That went on for a while IIRC.


I really like him as a linebacker I thought his frame was perfect to SOLB.

I was really surprised that Vonnie Holliday was working at OLB...

I was like WTF?

Roth did make the most sense at the time...

Roth did nothing as a Strongside end in a 43..so there was no way that he would have been able to play 5 tech..

Merling has been a bit of a fish out of water..

I hope this does not end up like Jason Allen with the switching of postions and all..

Merling was basically a 1st rounder since there was no 32nd 1st round pick..


Hate to see another 1st rounder bite the dust with the phins

ckparrothead
01-26-2010, 02:11 PM
This draft is somewhat unique to me in that I see some guys in this draft who I feel could be better pros than college players because they were held back by college systems which asked them to do things from a 4-3 standpoint where they might be better 3-4 players. Jeff Fitzgerald and Doug Worthington immediately come to mind.

Tunaphish429
01-26-2010, 02:14 PM
Keep in mind that moving Merling out to SOLB could only be the safety net that allows us to fix the position by drafting only one guy instead of acquiring multiple players. We all know how this regime likes to fix holes by double-picking.

As Simon points out, if you move Merling, then grabbing a Jason Pierre-Paul at #12 and counting on him to help fix the defense would not be such a big gamble. We gambled on Sean Smith and Vontae Davis to fix the secondary and replace Andre Goodman. They did about as well as they could as rookies and yet the secondary was still a huge problem. I don't think you want that at any position, you need good options.

Another thing about moving Merling is, it allows you to keep flipping rocks at the DE position which they consider to be quite possibly the most important on the defense. Personnel is a percentage game. If you roll the dice X number of times, chances are if you're doing your job, you'll win Y number of times. The only way to guarantee you don't win is if you don't roll the dice. Phil Merling took 376 snaps this year along the DL where we could potentially be dishing those snaps out to some guys like Lionel Dotson, Ryan Baker, and some new guys who are begging to get on the field so that they can show us whether they're the next Jay Ratliff or not.

In a way, Phil Merling and Tony McDaniel are extremely solid rotators that help you win games. But in another way, they're drain stoppers that keep you from discovering the next big thing. It might be wise to clear one of those drain stoppers while keeping the other in place...so that you can keep searching for the next star.

I understand that the do that alot drafting 2 players to fill a need..If one fails you have another there and hope he can do a great job..

But I dont really see the Value of taking Pierre there..alot of analsysis stats he is a raw pass rusher..plus only has 1 year of exp...

I like the idea of getting Mcclain..pending he is there and taking another OLB later in the draft.. Mcclain has great physical tools and is super Savy...

He could wreak havoc in a 2 gap system if Miami goes back to it

Tunaphish429
01-26-2010, 02:17 PM
This draft is somewhat unique to me in that I see some guys in this draft who I feel could be better pros than college players because they were held back by college systems which asked them to do things from a 4-3 standpoint where they might be better 3-4 players. Jeff Fitzgerald and Doug Worthington immediately come to mind.

Corey Wotten reminds me alot of Richard Seymour with the size and build he has..

He is going to be a great 5 tech in this league..

He def seems like he could be moved around like the Raiders were doing with Seymour this pass year

Orlando Fan
01-26-2010, 02:49 PM
Great article!!!! Good info in there, will be a good referance material as the draft nears.

RealDriscoll
01-26-2010, 03:00 PM
Wootton is a fine player but you have to be cautious with his injury history.

I think with the #12 pick you have to make the pick an impact player. Rolando McClain of Alabama, CJ Spiller of Clemson, Earl Thomas of Texas, and Dez Bryant of Oklahoma State are the targets IMO. While Jared Odrick is a good player and someone mentioned comparison to Jay Ratliff. Is Jay Ratliff worth the #12 pick?

Selecting Paul-Pierre at #12 would be Al Davis of Jeff Ireland. There isn't enough tape on the kid to make him #12 worthly. Sure he is a great athlete and he will tear up the combine but I see Vernon Gholston in him

RealDriscoll
01-26-2010, 03:03 PM
In Round 2 players like Jerry Hughes of TCU, Brandon Spikes of Florida, Brandon Graham of Michigan, and Morgan Burnett of GT have to be in play.

Brandon Grahams' short arms could really push him into round 2 ala Lamarr Woodley which is just crazy. This guy comes in and starts at SOLB immediatly.

I must agree with Boomer in his analysis of Jason Worlids. I am avid ACC guy and I watched Worlids closely and this kids' stock will rise. in Round 2 he HAS to be a real possibility

RealDriscoll
01-26-2010, 03:04 PM
CK,

I see you like Dough Worthington. What do you think on Thaddeus Gibson? I saw people had him ranked in Round 2; I see him as a 3rd Rounder.

RealDriscoll
01-26-2010, 03:07 PM
A guy who I have liked for some time is Torrell Troup of Central Florida. I saw him as ideal pick in Rounds 5-6; Lately I have seen him shoot up the boards into Round 4, even Round 3. I haven't watched my DVR of the Shrime Game and was sidelined all of last week with my 4th ACL Surgery. Was he that impressive to jump out that high? Anyone... Bueller..

greasyObnoxious
01-26-2010, 03:10 PM
great read Boomer. a bit hard to read sometimes, because i'm accidentally skipping a few lines here and there, but still a ton of quality info.

ckparrothead
01-26-2010, 03:15 PM
CK,

I see you like Dough Worthington. What do you think on Thaddeus Gibson? I saw people had him ranked in Round 2; I see him as a 3rd Rounder.

Worthington has some warts but I see him as a guy that has sort of switched between positions because he's not found one at the NFL that would suit him best, which could be 3-4 DE.

Gibson is interesting. He doesn't play with a great head on his shoulders but he's physical at the line, gets his arms extended and knows how to use his hands to work through trash. He's got a lot of mobility. I think I have more work to be done on him but I would not be surprised by a 2nd round grade.

As for Graham I've not yet become a fan of his. At least, not to the extent to where I'd consider him at #12. He's definitely a mobile player, that much is clear. But, I consider him a gap shooter who uses his size advantage to keep his angles alive and stay on his feet while shooting gaps. I don't like his strength at the POA, he doesn't shock or jar an offensive lineman with his punch (how could he, with 30" arms?), and even though his speed will flatter to deceive with the outside pass rush, he doesn't have the flexibility to consistently bend the arc by getting "small" (as Tony Sparano would say) or "narrow" (as Jeff Reinbold would say).

ckparrothead
01-26-2010, 03:16 PM
A guy who I have liked for some time is Torrell Troup of Central Florida. I saw him as ideal pick in Rounds 5-6; Lately I have seen him shoot up the boards into Round 4, even Round 3. I haven't watched my DVR of the Shrime Game and was sidelined all of last week with my 4th ACL Surgery. Was he that impressive to jump out that high? Anyone... Bueller..

He was quietly a very solid guy during practices and his first half Shrine Game performance was straight up beast mode. I've got him all over my notes.

BobDole
01-26-2010, 03:49 PM
i thought we drafted merling to be an OLB in the 3-4 originally myself. at around 270 i think he'd be about right for the position. he's very fluid in his hips and moves laterally extremely well - makes sense to me. he's not quite the bull rusher you'd want at the DE spot for our defense. and i still think it would be a huge mistake to trade him for a pick.

greasyObnoxious
01-26-2010, 03:50 PM
i thought we drafted merling to be an OLB in the 3-4 originally myself. at around 270 i think he'd be about right for the position. he's very fluid in his hips and moves laterally extremely well - makes sense to me. he's not quite the bull rusher you'd want at the DE spot for our defense. and i still think it would be a huge mistake to trade him for a pick.

in his after draft press conference, Ireland even said Merling was being looked at as "edge rusher."

RealDriscoll
01-26-2010, 03:51 PM
This draft is really loaded in the first three rounds of the draft. Most of the things Boomer writes I completely agree with him.

QB: Henne is the guy; there are no doubts anymore. I watched Joe Flacco in Baltimore closely this year to compare the growth of Chad Henne in comparison to Joe. I noticed that Joe Flacco never really won his team the game and as the season went on he really degressed. The Ravens' wins were based off of big days from Ray Rice, Willis McGahee, and that killer offensive line they have in Baltimore. Chad Henne on the other hand got better and better as each week passed and was responsible or a major reason for wins against the Jets and Patriots in Miami. Before he got injured against the Steelers in Week 17 he look ike a seasoned pro walking a mediocre offense up and down the field on a very good Steelers' defense. Thigpen for a Round 5 was a steal. I remeber the 2008 season where we were in Kansas City in a must-win and Thigpen kept making plays. They guy is a "spark-plug". The jury is out on Pat White and down the road I think he will be an effective gimmick player in our "Wild-Cat" offense but for him to be succesful we must let him take chances in the passing game b/c when he enters tha game defenses are keying the run. We are set at this position.

RB: I differ slightly here. I agree with Ronnie Brown being an "elite" back when healthy and I agree that Ricky will probably only last two more seasons. I also agree that I like what I saw with Lex Hilliard in limited carries but I think CJ Spiller is more than a slight possibility. In fact if he is there at #12 we MUST take him. I see him as the second coming of Chris Johnson; While everyone and their mother have given that comparison this move makes us a very flexible franchise. I am certain that we could ship Ronnie Brown off for a 2nd Rounder and given his injury history I would be willing to do this is if we landed CJ Spiller. Let's not forget that our Punt Return and Kick Return yardage is laughable. Spiller upgrades this as well; I see the impact that Chris Johnson has had in Tennessee and see the same in CJ Spiller.

Offensive Line: We have a great situation here. I see Vernon Carey, Jake Long, Jake Grove, and Justin Smiley as Pro-Bowl players (not like 4th alternates who get in like Yeremiah Bell). Their problem is durability but that is out of our control. Donald Thomas did disappoint a little but with good coaching and hard work he can turn it around. Joe Berger and Nate Garner provide great depth and as Boomer pointed out much more than we have had in previous regime's. I am still high on Andrew Gardner who we drafted out of Georgia Tech last year. I think this can develop into a quality Tackle maybe even a starter down the line.

WR: We know the situation here. Hartline, Bess, and Camarillo are all contributors. Bess has potential to be a lethal slot player, Hartline is a guy who just gets it, and I share Boomer's view that Ted Ginn Jr. still has some value here. You can't coach speed and the play he made against the Jets on Monday Night where he burned Darrelle Revis shows me ginn has the potential to make plays. Let's not forget that he made some key catches down the stretch as well. You draft a Dez Bryant and throw him into the mix that is Bess, Hartline, Ginn, and Camarillo and now you're talking. Round 2 could have players like Damian Williams of USC, Mardy Gilyard of Cincinnati, Brandon LaFell of LSU, Arrelious Benn of Illinois, Golden Tate of Notre Dame, and Demaryius Thomas of Georgia Tech sitting there. I am a huge fan of Gilyard as I see him having a Percy Harvin or DeSean Jackson like impact on our team. Draft a Gilyard and sign an Antonio Bryant and that is another enviable situation we are in.

TE: Fasano disappointed me this season. I think he is a good player but not a #1 Tight End; Gresham is indeed a special vertical threat but taking him at #12 could be a reach. Since I know he won't be there at #43 we have to look at Aaron Hernandez of Florida, Rob Gronkowski of Arizona, and Anthony McCoy of USC. I absolutly love Jimmy Graham of Miami as a 4th Round Prospect. It bares watching what happens in Houston with Owen Daniels. This guy is a pro-bowl calibur Tight End.

DL: I don't think moving Merling to SOLB is the way to go. I think keeping a rotation of Randy Starksm Kendall Langford, Phillip Merling, and Tony McDaniel presents a real strength to this team. I love the idea of bringing back Jason Ferguson for another season and having a rotation of Soliai/Ferguson. I still think with the depth of talent in this draft we should be able to lock up a good player possibly late. I like Odrick but not at #12; Cody no longer is a possibility after seeing his weigh-in; Suh and McCoy will be gone; Dan Williams is inconsistent; but I do like D'Anthony Smith of La. Tech, Torrell Troup of Central Florida, Cam Thomas of North Carolina, and Jay Ross of East Carolina. What are the prospects of Vince Wilfork or Casey Hampton slipping to us in free agency? not likely but I can dream.

DB: With Will Allen returning I think we are set at Corner with Vontae, Sean, Will Allen, and Jason Allen; resgining Nate Jones would be a nice bonus. Gibril Wilson and Yeremiah Bell are Strong Safeties and it was obvious Gibril was out of position last season. Despite Yeremiah going to the Pro-Bowl I still think Gibril Wilson is the best Strong Safety on this team. I think you keep them both if you can get Bell to restructure but if not you have to keep Wilson. I am very excited to see how Chris Clemons plays for us but Earl thomas has to be on the radar at #12. Special skill set, great instincts, amazing ball skills, just the total package; There are plenty of good options here in the draft as well with Burnett of GT, Chad Jones of LSU, Robert Johnson of Utah, and I am a fan of Myron Lewis of Vanderbilt

LB: This will be a major area of focus during free agency especially with the amount of money that Reggie Torbor and Akin Ayodele are making. Kalos Dansby, D'Qwell Jackson, Kirk Morrison, Thomas Howard, Demecco Ryans are some of the bnames available. I love Dansby as a Fins. I think Channing Crowder really stepped up in 2009 as well. Rolando McClain has to be on the radar at #12; I still like Brandon Spikes and if he somehow falls to #43 you have to take him. Without question bringing Jason taylor back to alternate with Cameron Wake at WOLB makes a ton of sense. I wouldn't get rid of Joey Porter unless we have a suitable replacement. You mentioned Brandon Graham and Jason Worlids who are two players I absolutly love. I also like Brandon Lang of Troy, Antonio Coleman of Auburn, AJ Edds of Iowa, and even Auston English of Oklahoma.

ckparrothead
01-26-2010, 03:54 PM
i thought we drafted merling to be an OLB in the 3-4 originally myself. at around 270 i think he'd be about right for the position. he's very fluid in his hips and moves laterally extremely well - makes sense to me. he's not quite the bull rusher you'd want at the DE spot for our defense. and i still think it would be a huge mistake to trade him for a pick.

With Nolan in town, Denver drafted a guy in Robert Ayers that compares with Merling in a lot of ways. Nolan developed ways to get Ayers on the field, as Boomer alluded to, in 5-2 alignments.

Keep in mind that Nolan is absolutely no stranger to shaking things up and moving people around. He came to Denver and the only player on the 2009 defense that played the same position as the 2008 defense was Champ Bailey.

BobDole
01-26-2010, 04:02 PM
With Nolan in town, Denver drafted a guy in Robert Ayers that compares with Merling in a lot of ways. Nolan developed ways to get Ayers on the field, as Boomer alluded to, in 5-2 alignments.

Keep in mind that Nolan is absolutely no stranger to shaking things up and moving people around. He came to Denver and the only player on the 2009 defense that played the same position as the 2008 defense was Champ Bailey.

one of the many things i liked about that write up. i've already read the defensive portion 3 times. would love to see how merling fares there - b/c the potential 3-4 OLB's in this class are pretty few and far between - and i'd hate to waste an early pick on one. really want the first two picks to be ILB and FS - regardless of the order.

Boomer
01-26-2010, 04:09 PM
Thanks guys.

Just a couple of points I'd like to pick up on; first of all unless he kilks someone, there's no way Jerry Hughes falls to round 2. As for Pierre-Paul, I spoke to one scout who said that 2 GM's with teams in the playoffs would take JPP in the top 5. There is more than enough game tape, practice tape, JUCO tape as well as scout visits throughout the season. Don't forget, it's not like JPP came from nowhere. He was highly recruited, he was a JUCO AA and turned down Miami, Florida and FSU. He's a better rush threat than Sergio Kindle, is much better in space, has far better COD skills and is a better athlete. He's a rare specimen. I wouldn't say it was an Al Davis move on any level.

ChambersWI
01-26-2010, 04:10 PM
With Nolan in town, Denver drafted a guy in Robert Ayers that compares with Merling in a lot of ways. Nolan developed ways to get Ayers on the field, as Boomer alluded to, in 5-2 alignments.

Keep in mind that Nolan is absolutely no stranger to shaking things up and moving people around. He came to Denver and the only player on the 2009 defense that played the same position as the 2008 defense was Champ Bailey.

Robert Ayers.... talk about a guy who IMO is gonna be a bust.

RealDriscoll
01-26-2010, 04:11 PM
Wow Troup was suppossed to be a secret until Round 6; Nevermind.

hooshoops
01-26-2010, 04:12 PM
hmm...i would agree with others who say that the candidates for solb in this draft that i really like to step in and contribute from day 1 are few and far between...

i think merling is a guy who uses his hands well and may be a effective player outside as a solb...i don't have concerns about him setting the edge vs the run or being strong at the poa in that role but i do have concerns about him playing in space and his change of direction...and of course he'd need to drop a good 20 lbs...or so

it's intriguing....what kind of change of direction and speed did merling have at the combine etc or was he out then with that injury still???

and man is jared odrick a good looking player...i'm starting to see the jay ratliff comparisons...odrick has a great looking body also big bubble big thighs...and he's explosive...when you get 2 wins in a row against a guard the quality of iupata (sp?) even in drills designed for the defense to win i'm impressed...

hmmm....

Boomer
01-26-2010, 04:15 PM
Thanks Bob. I'm not trying to say that by moving Merling to SOLB it's the cure all. What I'm saying is that you're going to put a player who many of us thought would be an OLB in a 3-4 anyway, in a position where he might excel. I thought when at Clemson that in the 267 to 272 area he was very explosive, very sudden, changed diretion well and stacked up against the run. At times in his final year he was a beast. I think he was first round value that dropped because of injury. He's more athletic than Matt Roth and if you can get him rotated, especially when we run some 5-2, I think he could do a job there.

Harry_Bagpipe
01-26-2010, 04:22 PM
This draft is really loaded in the first three rounds of the draft. Most of the things Boomer writes I completely agree with him.

RB: I differ slightly here. I agree with Ronnie Brown being an "elite" back when healthy and I agree that Ricky will probably only last two more seasons. I also agree that I like what I saw with Lex Hilliard in limited carries but I think CJ Spiller is more than a slight possibility. In fact if he is there at #12 we MUST take him. I see him as the second coming of Chris Johnson; While everyone and their mother have given that comparison this move makes us a very flexible franchise. I am certain that we could ship Ronnie Brown off for a 2nd Rounder and given his injury history I would be willing to do this is if we landed CJ Spiller. Let's not forget that our Punt Return and Kick Return yardage is laughable. Spiller upgrades this as well; I see the impact that Chris Johnson has had in Tennessee and see the same in CJ Spiller.

.


Im kinda with you on this one. Whereas i love McClain and Spoon and ILB is such a need, Spiller is such a weapon in multiple areas of the game. If he was just a RB than i wouldnt look at him but the fact that he is so dynamic in the return game and receiving the ball, it might be too much to pass up. He immediately improves our return game on Special Teams immensely. He is an everydown back. I mean if i could trade our #12 for CJ i would do it in a second. I love ronnie but he is 29 and injury prone

hooshoops
01-26-2010, 04:22 PM
that's the only thing i don't like about brandon graham...those t rex arms

ckparrothead
01-26-2010, 04:26 PM
Yeah, I'm not ready to peg Graham in at SOLB, unlike a lot of people. How is he going to bump TEs from a space position and then dominate them with short arms? It's not impossible but it's not going to be easy, either. And I don't think he has a ton of strength at the POA, either.

I like Worilds' ability better at that spot. Active, sticky hands.

Lord Of Miami
01-26-2010, 04:27 PM
Wow Troup was suppossed to be a secret until Round 6; Nevermind.

Some Scouts and Draftniks don't think he's a 3-4 DT anyways.

Lord Of Miami
01-26-2010, 04:29 PM
BTW~Graham is about to be on wqam.

hooshoops
01-26-2010, 04:29 PM
Yeah, I'm not ready to peg Graham in at SOLB, unlike a lot of people. How is he going to bump TEs from a space position and then dominate them with short arms? It's not impossible but it's not going to be easy, either. And I don't think he has a ton of strength at the POA, either.

I like Worilds' ability better at that spot. Active, sticky hands.

i don't think worilds is all that strong at the poa...personally

and i wonder about that shoulders long term prognosis

ckparrothead
01-26-2010, 04:35 PM
I'm not demanding that these guys be 3-4 DEs in terms of power at the POA but I would like to see a punch knock someone backward a little, and I'd like to see active hands helping to shed blocks.

BobDole
01-26-2010, 04:36 PM
Thanks Bob. I'm not trying to say that by moving Merling to SOLB it's the cure all. What I'm saying is that you're going to put a player who many of us thought would be an OLB in a 3-4 anyway, in a position where he might excel. I thought when at Clemson that in the 267 to 272 area he was very explosive, very sudden, changed diretion well and stacked up against the run. At times in his final year he was a beast. I think he was first round value that dropped because of injury. He's more athletic than Matt Roth and if you can get him rotated, especially when we run some 5-2, I think he could do a job there.

absolutely. merling's strength lies in his lower body - unlike langford who plays real stiff and relies on his upper body strength to throw people around - which is perfectly fine for an end. merling moves very well and knows how to use his hips for lateral direction - i've been wondering why they haven't done this sooner given our depth at end and lack thereof at OLB - think its about that time.

RealDriscoll
01-26-2010, 04:44 PM
Boom,

I haven't seen JPP; How is he against the run?

RealDriscoll
01-26-2010, 05:00 PM
I am very excited about pick #43. I see the following players having 1st Round grades which could equate to some serious talent being in play at #43

Jimmy Clausen, Sam Bradford, CJ Spiller, Jahvid Best, Jermaine Gresham, Dez Bryant, Arrelious Benn, Golden Tate, Damian Williams, Mardy Gilyard, Mike Iupati, Russell Okung, Bryan Bulaga, Bruce Campbell, Trent Williams Charles Brown, Anthony Davis, Joe Haden, Taylor Mays, Eric Berry, Earl Thomas, Morgan Burnett, Rolando McClain, Brandon Spikes, Sean Weatherspoon, Sergio Kindle, Jerry Hughes, Jason Paul Pierre, Jared Odrick, Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Dan Williams, Greg Hardy, Brandon Graham, Carlos Dunlap, Brian Price, Everson Griffen, Arthur Jones,

SamIam
01-26-2010, 05:03 PM
Thanks guys.

Just a couple of points I'd like to pick up on; first of all unless he kilks someone, there's no way Jerry Hughes falls to round 2. As for Pierre-Paul, I spoke to one scout who said that 2 GM's with teams in the playoffs would take JPP in the top 5. There is more than enough game tape, practice tape, JUCO tape as well as scout visits throughout the season. Don't forget, it's not like JPP came from nowhere. He was highly recruited, he was a JUCO AA and turned down Miami, Florida and FSU. He's a better rush threat than Sergio Kindle, is much better in space, has far better COD skills and is a better athlete. He's a rare specimen. I wouldn't say it was an Al Davis move on any level.


I am sorry Boomer and that's only MO... but there is no way JPP is a top 5 pick or even a top 20 pick.. I think it's a huge mistake taking him that high.

I watched 2 USF games and he did not look explosive to me of the edge, he is strong against the run but not much rushing the passer, maybe he played better in other games.

Really reminds me of Jamal Anderson from Arkansas.. I think Derek Morgan is a much better prospect that JPP and the best DE in the draft... JMO

SamIam
01-26-2010, 05:04 PM
Boom,

I haven't seen JPP; How is he against the run?

Very good against the run.. that is his strength

rrrrphin
01-26-2010, 05:05 PM
An interesting comment from DraftDaddy:

Ole Miss OT #77 John Jerry received tons of attention from the Dolphins coaching staff. His appeal to power-running teams is apparent.

hooshoops
01-26-2010, 05:16 PM
dexter mccluster is killing it in 1 on 1's...wow

taylor mays not so much...

ckparrothead
01-26-2010, 05:23 PM
How many players do I see with bonafied first round talent? You didn't ask but I suppose I'll tell. Just a warning, this is somewhat of a pessimistic view.

QB: Jimmy Clausen, Sam Bradford
WR: Dez Bryant
TE: --
RB: C.J. Spiller, Ryan Matthews
FB: --
OT: Russell Okung, Trent Williams, Bruce Campbell
OG: Mike Iupati
OC: --
DT: Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Jared Odrick, Dan Williams
DE: Derrick Morgan, Everson Griffen, Jason Pierre-Paul, Corey Wootton, Brandon Graham, Jason Worilds
LB: Rolando McClain, Brandon Spikes, Jerry Hughes, Sergio Kindle, Sean Weatherspoon
CB: Joe Haden, Amari Spievey
DS: Eric Berry
DB: Earl Thomas

That last bit is because I'm not fool enough to keep Earl out of the first round but at the same time I've not been a huge buyer of his. I tend to think that when a guy that small tries to play safety at the next level, you HAVE to be extraordinarily physical despite your stature, a la Bob Sanders. It's not that you look at 5'10" on a piece of paper and think it's so much different from other guys like Ed Reed who are not that big. It's the look on the field. Earl has always looked small to me on the field. I don't think you can be that small on the field and be a strict cover guy unless you move to corner, and I think that could be in his future especially with his speed and how he played virtually a CB position at Texas on a lot of downs.

I realize there are only 28 guys there right now. I think the rest of the players are somewhat on the cusp for me.

rev kev
01-26-2010, 05:37 PM
Ratliff\Odrick at #12 - we can get better value and trade up later and get this guy if need be

skipp2myloo13
01-26-2010, 05:41 PM
Earl Thomas at 12 is officially my pick.

rev kev
01-26-2010, 05:45 PM
Cain if he is there otherwise Spiller is my pick...

hooshoops
01-26-2010, 05:55 PM
i just saw sparano patting mccluster on the back and talking with anthony dixon in a way that makes me think they'll both be high on our board...

of course it's pure speculation on my part...but dixon i'd love to see in a phins uni and mccluster is really something else in the acceleration and quickness dept...and he runs pretty darn good routes for a rb

RobertHorry
01-26-2010, 06:00 PM
How many players do I see with bonafied first round talent? You didn't ask but I suppose I'll tell. Just a warning, this is somewhat of a pessimistic view.

QB: Jimmy Clausen, Sam Bradford
WR: Dez Bryant
TE: --
RB: C.J. Spiller, Ryan Matthews
FB: --
OT: Russell Okung, Trent Williams, Bruce Campbell
OG: Mike Iupati
OC: --
DT: Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Jared Odrick, Dan Williams
DE: Derrick Morgan, Everson Griffen, Jason Pierre-Paul, Corey Wootton, Brandon Graham, Jason Worilds
LB: Rolando McClain, Brandon Spikes, Jerry Hughes, Sergio Kindle, Sean Weatherspoon
CB: Joe Haden, Amari Spievey
DS: Eric Berry
DB: Earl Thomas

That last bit is because I'm not fool enough to keep Earl out of the first round but at the same time I've not been a huge buyer of his. I tend to think that when a guy that small tries to play safety at the next level, you HAVE to be extraordinarily physical despite your stature, a la Bob Sanders. It's not that you look at 5'10" on a piece of paper and think it's so much different from other guys like Ed Reed who are not that big. It's the look on the field. Earl has always looked small to me on the field. I don't think you can be that small on the field and be a strict cover guy unless you move to corner, and I think that could be in his future especially with his speed and how he played virtually a CB position at Texas on a lot of downs.

I realize there are only 28 guys there right now. I think the rest of the players are somewhat on the cusp for me.


I agree with this 100%. Ryan Matthews is a beast, I really really like him.

I think Rashawn Jackson out of UVA will be a great hybrid FB/RB.

And I agree with the Thomas comment. I said it earlier on in the year, Thomas is a little too small for me to be a full-time starter at FS. Especially with this regime, that won't bode well for him. Take a look at our Safetys right now. Gibril Wilson and Yeremiah Bell dont exactly shy away from contact. Tyrone Culver loves contact as well. Chris Clemons has Speed and Loves contact. Earl Thomas has excellent cover skills, but stature and physicality leave alot to be desired. He is physical, but its moreso how that will translate to the NFL game. He reminds me of Jason Allen in the sense he will become a tweener. FS right now, but a CB in the future.

DOC33
01-26-2010, 06:03 PM
as always good stuff. Finally glad somebody else sees Jay Ratliff in Odrick.

Everyone seems to forget that Ratliff was drafted with the idea that he was going to play DE in the 3-4. In fact he was moved to NT as an emergency replacement for Ferguson when he was with Dallas. Dallas actually moved him back to DE once they found what they thought was a suitable replacement. Trying to use a high draft pick on someone that is going to try to dulicate a very unique/unusual talent like Ratliff is the way that busts happen. The downside is that if he cannot play NT which the odds would suggest that he cannot then you have a player who would probably be a back-up to two pretty good DE's one of which is a marginal pro bowler. The fact that no other NT in the league is that size speaks volumes and to use the 12th pick is the way GM's get fired. If you use a third or fourth round pick on a guy like Mike Neal who has a similar skill set and is of similar size to Odrick then it might make some sense but to use the 12th pick, I dont see it. At least with a guy like Spiller if he is not the second coming of Chris Johnson then you at least have Reggie Bush which fills a need as well.

hooshoops
01-26-2010, 06:05 PM
Everyone seems to forget that Ratliff was drafted with the idea that he was going to play DE in the 3-4. In fact he was moved to NT as an emergency replacement for Ferguson when he was with Dallas. Dallas actually moved him back to DE once they found what they thought was a suitable replacement. Trying to use a high draft pick on someone that is going to try to dulicate a very unique/unusual talent like Ratliff is the way that busts happen. The downside is that if he cannot play NT which the odds would suggest that he cannot then you have a player who would probably be a back-up to two pretty good DE's one of which is a marginal pro bowler. The fact that no other NT in the league is that size speaks volumes and to use the 12th pick is the way GM's get fired. If you use a third or fourth round pick on a guy like Mike Neal who has a similar skill set and is of similar size to Odrick then it might make some sense but to use the 12th pick, I dont see it. At least with a guy like Spiller if he is not the second coming of Chris Johnson then you at least have Reggie Bush which fills a need as well.

well if odrick is a target you better get him at #12...cause you're not getting him at #43...

Lord Of Miami
01-26-2010, 06:17 PM
well if odrick is a target you better get him at #12...cause you're not getting him at #43...

I just read on draft Countdown alot of the 3-4 teams were talking to Ogrick about being a DE in a 3-4 not a DT, but then again Miami could be a team that see's him as a DT in a 3-4, who knows http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/SeniorBowl/Senior-Bowl-Blog.php

hooshoops
01-26-2010, 06:25 PM
I just read on draft Countdown alot of the 3-4 teams were talking to Ogrick about being a DE in a 3-4 not a DT, but then again Miami could be a team that see's him as a DT in a 3-4, who knows http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/SeniorBowl/Senior-Bowl-Blog.php

i still think he seems like a better fit as a 3-4 end than nose to me but i'm coming off the thought that he can't be an jay ratliff type on the nose...

the true wrs on the south squad leave me less than impressed...riley cooper is physical at the los and gets open but drops the ball plus he's not gonna run away from anyone...

that guy from uab interest me zero...

jeremy williams doesn't do much for me either...

i heard te jimmy graham gave lbs fits down the field in coverage...

Lord Of Miami
01-26-2010, 06:27 PM
For my money Nate Collins does a better Ratliff, then anyone in this draft.

He's a guy we could pick up late in the draft and start on passing down from day one, and if we did move Merling to OLB then we would have a need for a DT for Passing downs cuzz Merling does that alot right now.

I'm not saying Nate is a better player i'm just saying he looks more like Ratliff to me.

TedSlimmJr
01-26-2010, 06:29 PM
The thing that I see about Odrick is a lot of motor and competitiveness....but also the same inconsistency that shows up in Dan Williams at times...just not as much..

Odrick did well against who I think is quite possibly the best offensive lineman in the draft in Iupati...but was also blown off the ball by Shawn Lauvao yesterday...and this is something that was also evident in his Penn St. game film...

I've always liked Odrick as a prospect...but more of fit at 3-4 end than nose tackle...

A better 3-4 end prospect than Oghobaase? Not sure about that quite yet either...

Lord Of Miami
01-26-2010, 06:33 PM
When i watch Odrick i think of John Bosa, and that really scares me. Any Dolfan over the age of 30 should know that name.

hooshoops
01-26-2010, 06:35 PM
slimm i'm assuming you've seen a lot of oghaboose...does he play too high sometimes and not with good leverage and knee bend or is that just something i saw on the 1 game i got to review of his i think vs army against smaller competition when he was being cut all the time???

i think oghaboose is a solid 3-4 end as well...cause i assumed that was more the exception and not the norm

Lord Of Miami
01-26-2010, 06:36 PM
slimm i'm assuming you've seen a lot of oghaboose...does he play too high sometimes and not with good leverage and leg bend or is that just something i saw on the 1 game i got to review of his i think vs army against smaller competition when he was being cut all the time???

i think oghaboose is a solid 3-4 end as well...

yep , he's not a DT in 3-4 that's for sure.

ckparrothead
01-26-2010, 06:39 PM
Well I have seen a lot of Oghobaase and I would say definitely Odrick is a better prospect.

Lord Of Miami
01-26-2010, 06:43 PM
I See them filling the need at DT in FA it's too important to just hope you land a real 3-4 DT in the draft.Plus it's takes most DT coming out a year to play in a 3-4.

I mean look at last year and what they did at Center and DT looks to be just as big of a need this year.

TedSlimmJr
01-26-2010, 06:53 PM
slimm i'm assuming you've seen a lot of oghaboose...does he play too high sometimes and not with good leverage and knee bend or is that just something i saw on the 1 game i got to review of his i think vs army against smaller competition when he was being cut all the time???

i think oghaboose is a solid 3-4 end as well...cause i assumed that was more the exception and not the norm


There's really not much you can do to when you're being cut blocked constantly except protect your lower body....I hate it...I absolutely hate cut blocking...

After a while it starts to affect you mentally....which is why defensive lineman hate it...

Ogho is one of the few that I've seen that can get away with playing tall for a tall man....although he could bend better....I don't think guys like Wootton can get away with it like Ogho can...

Also, it'll be a lot less critical at end in a 3-4 than playing inside....

Alex Carrington is the guy that I've always felt might end up being better than all of them down the road...

PhinPhan910
01-26-2010, 07:14 PM
Ok, I got an idea from another place to have everyone pick a team and they get to draft players for that team, just like the nfl draft. I am not the most organized person, but we might as well give it a shot. All teams (except miami) are vacant at the time.

Teams:
Detroit Lions:
Patriots:
Jets:
Dolphins: Me (Phinphan910)
Bills:
Bengals:
Steelers:
Ravens:
Browns:
Broncos:
Chargers:
Raiders:
Chiefs:
Giants:
Eagles:
Redskins:
Cowboys:
Colts:
Titans:
Texans:
Jaguars:
Packers:
Vikings:
Rams:
Bears:
Cards:
49ers:
Seahawks:
Saints:
Falcons:
Panthers:
Bucs:

We don't have like any fans of like any team (other than teams in the AFC EAST.) but like a year ago, someone created something where you had to pick teams, so i'm confident.

We will proceed if and when every team is taken.
First person to post what team they want gets them.
I have miami.

Boomer
01-26-2010, 07:21 PM
Boom,

I haven't seen JPP; How is he against the run?


He's OK. Clearly he needs work, but he shows decent recognition and has the arms to be able to disengage and make plays. The guy is 6'6, 263lbs and he can do back flips in his uniform. But looking at him without a shirt on, he has quite thin arms and I'd like to see him add some definition in there. Having stood next to and been around Myron Rolle for a few hours, Myron has much clearer muscle definition. The arms length makes up for some of the lack of muscle, but I'd like to see those arms a little more pumped.

Boomer
01-26-2010, 07:23 PM
I am sorry Boomer and that's only MO... but there is no way JPP is a top 5 pick or even a top 20 pick.. I think it's a huge mistake taking him that high.

I watched 2 USF games and he did not look explosive to me of the edge, he is strong against the run but not much rushing the passer, maybe he played better in other games.

Really reminds me of Jamal Anderson from Arkansas.. I think Derek Morgan is a much better prospect that JPP and the best DE in the draft... JMO

Respect your opinion Sam, but I disagree mate.

I've seen him look very explosive off the corner. His upside, hie length and his overall physicality make him exceedingly enticing.

FinsGuy939
01-26-2010, 07:45 PM
sounds like a good idea, i'll take the browns since it seems hard to go wrong there

clashcityrocker
01-26-2010, 09:08 PM
If you're taking requests :)

Ozfin77
01-26-2010, 09:30 PM
I'll take the Niners

clashcityrocker
01-26-2010, 09:51 PM
Not to make things complicated, but are we just doing the first round or more? Can we trade picks? I'm sure we'll get that hammered out later, just wondering what everyone thinks.

zodiak
01-26-2010, 10:49 PM
When i watch Odrick i think of John Bosa, and that really scares me. Any Dolfan over the age of 30 should know that name.


39 here, and 3 of the worst,scariest names in phins history....John Bosa,Eric Kumerow & Rick Graff awful just awful.....:facepalm:

Mr_Freezetag
01-26-2010, 11:04 PM
I will take the Toronto Bills, I mean Buffalo Bills

VAMinnow
01-26-2010, 11:40 PM
Put me down for the Carolina Cardiac Cats.

j-off-her-doll
01-26-2010, 11:58 PM
A few months ago, I was really down on the idea of drafting Spiller . . . Now, not so much. In fact, my BB - of players that I feel might actually drop to us - for the 12-spot looks like this:

1. E. Thomas
1. C. Spiller (they're tied - can't make up my mind)
3. J. Pierre-Paul
4. D. Morgan
5. D. Bryant
6. S. Weatherspoon (why didn't anyone correct me when I was spelling it Witherspoon?)

3rdandinches
01-27-2010, 12:19 AM
A few months ago, I was really down on the idea of drafting Spiller . . . Now, not so much. In fact, my BB - of players that I feel might actually drop to us - for the 12-spot looks like this:

1. E. Thomas
1. C. Spiller (they're tied - can't make up my mind)
3. J. Pierre-Paul
4. D. Morgan
5. D. Bryant
6. S. Weatherspoon (why didn't anyone correct me when I was spelling it Witherspoon?)


Thomas should be the pick, he improves our secondary 10 fold instantly. No other player will have that impact for us! Spiller is the exciting pick but not one we can afford to do with the 12th pick, we need more then 10-15 touches a game here. JPP is not a BP player meaning he prefers players that have proved themselves for more then 1 year. Morgan is interesting, Spoon would be way to early and Dez again falls under the red flag warnings and also BP likes his WR's with 4 years of college production. I think they would take Tate or Lafell in the 2nd in a heart beat before taking Dez in the first.

That's just my humble opinion.

j-off-her-doll
01-27-2010, 12:34 AM
Thomas should be the pick, he improves our secondary 10 fold instantly. No other player will have that impact for us! Spiller is the exciting pick but not one we can afford to do with the 12th pick, we need more then 10-15 touches a game here. JPP is not a BP player meaning he prefers players that have proved themselves for more then 1 year. Morgan is interesting, Spoon would be way to early and Dez again falls under the red flag warnings and also BP likes his WR's with 4 years of college production. I think they would take Tate or Lafell in the 2nd in a heart beat before taking Dez in the first.

That's just my humble opinion.

What warms me up to Spiller a bit is the idea of getting him and then trading Ronnie for a 2nd. Gun to my head, and I'll go with Earl Thomas. If we draft him, I'm penciling him in as DROTY.

Aqua and Orange
01-27-2010, 03:35 AM
Fantastic, fantastic column, Boomer. :)

Earl Thomas is certainly picking up some fans around Finheaven lately. Good to see as everyone having their eggs on one Arkansas ILB basket has been a little rough. Having more than one option is a good thing.

Nick13
01-27-2010, 04:19 AM
I'll take the Redskins.

BobDole
01-27-2010, 05:23 AM
Fantastic, fantastic column, Boomer. :)

Earl Thomas is certainly picking up some fans around Finheaven lately. Good to see as everyone having their eggs on one Arkansas ILB basket has been a little rough. Having more than one option is a good thing.

alabama you mean? eh, it happens.

Buff
01-27-2010, 05:39 AM
Give me the Sea Hawks please.

This was done a couple of times last year, and it started off great, but ran out of wind towards the end of the 2nd round from memory.

There has to be a couple of ground rules.....

*Trades make it difficult to keep track of, so I would suggest no trades.
*2 rounds initially, then assess & see if a 3rd round is viable.
*bear in mind that some people are on the other side of the world, (me) and work weekends and shift work (me again), so a bit of patience is needed. maybe a maximum of 24 hours to pick, otherwise a concensus pick from the original poster & someone else.
*When a player is picked, reasons given by the draftee.

And finally, when it happens, after each team has a member from the forum, a seperate thread with a moderator or similar to keep updates regular. A PM to the next team up for a pick too.

It was great fun last year, lets do it again.

Congrats Phinphan910. Great idea.

Brad

clashcityrocker
01-27-2010, 08:25 AM
All great suggestions, Buff. I especially like the idea of draft analysis after each person makes his/her pick. I agree with at least two rounds, no trades, and a 24 hour time limit. But I suspect people will make their picks a lot quicker

greasyObnoxious
01-27-2010, 08:38 AM
24 hour time window sounds good to me. i'll take the Chiefs

RealDriscoll
01-27-2010, 08:46 AM
I hear Brandon Graham been on a tear. I hope his "short-arms" pushes him to us at #43.

RealDriscoll
01-27-2010, 08:51 AM
I like that Jason Paul Pierre's status is soaring; It's good for us. I already have Russell Okung, Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Eric Berry, Derrick Morgan, Jimmy Clausen, Sam Bradford, and if you throw in JPP that gives us 8 players ahead of us which means one of the "Fab-Four" Earl Thomas, Rolando McClain, Dez Bryant, or CJ Spiller will be there.

RealDriscoll
01-27-2010, 08:53 AM
If would draft Spiller and trade Ronnie for a 2nd it would be awesome. Could you imagine this draft...

1-CJ Spiller-RB-Clemson
2A-Brandon Graham-SOLB-Michigan
2B (via Ronnie Brown)- Brandon Spikes-ILB-Florida
3-Taylor Price-WR-Miami Oh
4- Torrell Troup-NT-Cental Florida

RealDriscoll
01-27-2010, 08:56 AM
CK,

Just read some of you're write-ups on Universal Draft; Love the pieces on Taylor Price and Jerry Hughes.

3rdandinches
01-27-2010, 09:28 AM
B.Graham expects to put up 225 over 40x at the combine!

j-off-her-doll
01-27-2010, 10:06 AM
I hear Brandon Graham been on a tear. I hope his "short-arms" pushes him to us at #43.

He's looked the best by a country mile in the pass-rush drills. I know the drill favors the rusher, but no one is getting close to blocking him. As much as I loved him, I didn't see him as quite so explosive.

hooshoops
01-27-2010, 10:18 AM
He's looked the best by a country mile in the pass-rush drills. I know the drill favors the rusher, but no one is getting close to blocking him. As much as I loved him, I didn't see him as quite so explosive.

oh yeah...he's explosive...uses his hands well too...i was told woodley had short arms too when his were measured years ago...

as far as graham benching 225 40 times or so i can believe it...much easier for guys with short arms to bang out bench reps...shorter distance they have to go...

the other thing i like watching his pass rush reps is how low he comes in off the edge and with such great leverage...and downright relentless once he's engaged...

this guys gotta be flying up boards...

plus he played lb in high school and ran a 10.9 100 meters...damn

RockyMtnPhinfan
01-27-2010, 10:27 AM
If would draft Spiller and trade Ronnie for a 2nd it would be awesome. Could you imagine this draft...

1-CJ Spiller-RB-Clemson
2A-Brandon Graham-SOLB-Michigan
2B (via Ronnie Brown)- Brandon Spikes-ILB-Florida
3-Taylor Price-WR-Miami Oh
4- Torrell Troup-NT-Cental Florida


YESSSSS Taylor Price!

Boomer your video cuts/analysis of Price is very convincing. The guy looks pretty sharp to me. Tough in the open field catches and fast.
PLease can we have him??? Think he will slip to 3rd round?

hooshoops
01-27-2010, 10:30 AM
price looks even better in 1 on 1 reps...

3 teams supposedly have already pegged him with top 60 grades...i think it was baltimore carolina and i want to say tampa

Conuficus
01-27-2010, 10:50 AM
CK,

Just read some of you're write-ups on Universal Draft; Love the pieces on Taylor Price and Jerry Hughes.

Thanks.

Sean Weatherspoon is the next one for myself. I believe Boomer has Taylor Mays and Jason Worrilds in the pipeline. CK is pretty busy doing the videos for us, but we have a way to lighten the load on him a bit.

Conuficus
01-27-2010, 10:51 AM
YESSSSS Taylor Price!

Boomer your video cuts/analysis of Price is very convincing. The guy looks pretty sharp to me. Tough in the open field catches and fast.
PLease can we have him??? Think he will slip to 3rd round?

CK did that one, so you may want to address any questions regarding the video to him....so that the most informed person regarding that video can answer any questions you have etc.

:up:

RealDriscoll
01-27-2010, 10:59 AM
You guys are doing some great work. I am excited to see the write up on Worlids. This guy is a beast. SOLB written all over him

RealDriscoll
01-27-2010, 11:00 AM
It looks like Taylor Mays could start to slide down. He might make the Thomas Davis move.

Aqua and Orange
01-27-2010, 11:13 AM
alabama you mean? eh, it happens.

Those damn confusing southern A teams with their fancy pants maroon colors!

Good spot :up:

j-off-her-doll
01-27-2010, 11:42 AM
Just finished watching the Tuesday South practice.

1. T. Cody looks like a much better talent than D. Williams. Obviously, he has to lose about 25 lbs for that to matter.
2. B. Lang didn't look good in the 1-on-1 pass rush drills.
3. McCluster looks really good, but Mayock gave him a 2nd round grade. We can't afford to look at him until the 4th.
4. They spent way too much time on Tebow.
5. T. Mays has really stiff hips. I can see him being a successful SS, but he'll never be any good at FS.
6. J. Byers was very impressive in the 1-on-1 pass rush drills - dominate, even.
7. A. Coleman from Auburn (name of whom I was previously unfamiliar) looked explosive.
8. Didn't see any clips of J. Graham, but the commentators were very impressed - said the LB's couldn't stay with him down the field.
9. Didn't see any footage of E. Norwood.

- - -

Quick thing in regard to the North:

Anyone have any info on the TE Dickson from Oregon? Hadn't heard anything on him, but he looked really good in practice.

ckparrothead
01-27-2010, 12:17 PM
CK,

Just read some of you're write-ups on Universal Draft; Love the pieces on Taylor Price and Jerry Hughes.

Thank you. I personally thought I had a pretty good one on Jeremy Williams. We've got plenty more coming. Boomer's got ones on Taylor Mays and Jason Worilds in the works, and I've got a video up on Sean Weatherspoon that Richard was going to take on.

This week my big project is to do a nice video feature on the Shrine Game that ties in with observations I and maybe others had made during the week of Shrine practices. Next week I believe the plan is for me to do a roundup on the Shrine Week for the Sun Sentinel.

RealDriscoll
01-27-2010, 12:19 PM
Nice man. I am going to look at the Williams one now. Price in Round 3 seems logical. I see a little Miles Austin in him

RealDriscoll
01-27-2010, 12:21 PM
I wish there was a way we could acquire another 4th rounder. I'm not ready to give up Ginn, Porter won't get us a 4th.. Maybe Bell? I think a draft of McClain in Round 1, Worlids in Round 2, Taylor Price in Round 3, Troup and Jimmy Graham in Round 4 wuld pay huge dividends for the future

ckparrothead
01-27-2010, 12:22 PM
Brandon Graham is going to make me eat any disaparaging words about him.

Is he less than Lamarr Woodley because he lacks the same explosive, savvy hands and body flexibility?

Or is he greater than Lamarr Woodley because he has speed and strength (though not hand explosion, two different things IMO) that Woodley never dreamed of?

If senior bowl practices are any indication, seems to be the latter.

RealDriscoll
01-27-2010, 12:23 PM
I wish he would fall to us in Round 2; I think #12 is a little high.

RealDriscoll
01-27-2010, 12:25 PM
I guess Cameron Wake's explosiveness can off-set Grahams' lack of it.

ckparrothead
01-27-2010, 12:25 PM
Nice man. I am going to look at the Williams one now. Price in Round 3 seems logical. I see a little Miles Austin in him

Miles Austin? Interesting comparison. I did a lot of athletic calculations back in the day so trust me when I say that I know Miles Austin to have possessed extreme size-adjusted athleticism amongst his class...but even with that, we're talking about like a 6'4" or 6'5" dude that runs a 4.5 versus a 6'0" guy that runs a 4.3 and so it's an interesting choice of comparison. What do you see in him that reminds you of Austin?

hooshoops
01-27-2010, 12:26 PM
Brandon Graham is going to make me eat any disaparaging words about him.

Is he less than Lamarr Woodley because he lacks the same explosive, savvy hands and body flexibility?

Or is he greater than Lamarr Woodley because he has speed and strength (though not hand explosion, two different things IMO) that Woodley never dreamed of?

If senior bowl practices are any indication, seems to be the latter.

the latter...and i think he uses his hands better than he's given credit for...

he looks like a guy to me that won't make it out of the top 25 maybe top 20...and in any trade back scenario in round 1 someone i would REALLY target

hooshoops
01-27-2010, 12:27 PM
I guess Cameron Wake's explosiveness can off-set Grahams' lack of it.

how is graham not explosive??? i completely disagree

ckparrothead
01-27-2010, 12:28 PM
The success of guys like Woodley and Dumervil have paved the way for Brandon Graham to go as high as his athleticism, production, medical history and interview ability guide him to go. If he's banging on all four cylinders I wouldn't expect him to fall out of the top 15.

ckparrothead
01-27-2010, 12:29 PM
how is graham not explosive??? i completely disagree

I don't view his hands to be explosive. I don't see him rocking decent offensive lineman (read: not Western Michigan) back with a punch.

hooshoops
01-27-2010, 12:31 PM
The success of guys like Woodley and Dumervil have paved the way for Brandon Graham to go as high as his athleticism, production, medical history and interview ability guide him to go. If he's banging on all four cylinders I wouldn't expect him to fall out of the top 15.

i can see that...heck with it...i keep trying to move him down some...i'd take him over earl thomas and jerry hughes...

bryant
mcclain
b graham

hooshoops
01-27-2010, 12:46 PM
I don't view his hands to be explosive. I don't see him rocking decent offensive lineman (read: not Western Michigan) back with a punch.

ok...i can understand that statement...while graham doesn't rock tackles with an initial punch that the likes of sergio kindle or jason worilds do they don't exactly sustain pressure either after the initial contact...

graham i would us the term has active hands and is more a pure lower body power and leverage player and while he may not rock a tackle he gets up and under a tackle like few i've seen off the edge...and damn relentless...sustained pressure

RealDriscoll
01-27-2010, 12:48 PM
Price's ability to get open and get yards after catch just make me think of Miles Austin. I been watching a lot of Antonio Bryant and Miles Austin just in case we make a push for either of the guys. There is a swagger about Price that is similar to that of Austin as well.

RealDriscoll
01-27-2010, 12:49 PM
I think what CK is trying to say is that Graham lacks that initial burst that you see in say a Demarcus Ware. As you pointed out Graham's strength and use of hands are his strong traits not his burst off the football

ckparrothead
01-27-2010, 12:50 PM
Thing is I don't view Graham to be stout at the point of attack against the run. That bothers me when we're talking about SOLB. I think he uses his speed to get guys off balance, then hands and leg base to push them around...and primarily victimizes them when they're going backward rather than forward. What will he do with those short arms when he's got to try and hook and/or bump a TE near the line (but not AT the line)...and what happens when he finds himself being drive blocked by an offensive tackle or a pretty big Tight End on a run play. Gotta answer those questions before I peg him for SOLB.

He COULD just be a fantastic WOLB with ridiculous athleticism and the ability to victimize anyone that's standing still or moving backward.

Kdawg954
01-27-2010, 12:52 PM
Really great thread, tons of information on guys that I wouldn't mind learning more about.

I'm not a fan of drafting a NT at 12. Gimme a ILB, FS, RB or WR. We definitely aren't as bad as OLB as we are at ILB.

You give me this draft

1. Earl Thomas
2. Brandon Spikes

I couldn't be mad with those first 2 picks.

hooshoops
01-27-2010, 12:53 PM
Thing is I don't view Graham to be stout at the point of attack against the run. That bothers me when we're talking about SOLB. I think he uses his speed to get guys off balance and primarily victimizes them when they're going backward rather than forward. What will he do with those short arms when he's got to try and hook and/or bump a TE near the line (but not AT the line)...and what happens when he finds himself being drive blocked by an offensive tackle or a pretty big Tight End on a run play. Gotta answer those questions before I peg him for SOLB.

He COULD just be a fantastic WOLB with ridiculous athleticism and the ability to victimize anyone that's standing still or moving backward.

well i can tell you that i read where some teams are talking to him about playing the weakside...

if' he's a weakside player he has even more value imo as far as his draft slot...

i still see solb but i can see your points

RobertHorry
01-27-2010, 12:53 PM
Thing is I don't view Graham to be stout at the point of attack against the run. That bothers me when we're talking about SOLB. I think he uses his speed to get guys off balance and primarily victimizes them when they're going backward rather than forward. What will he do with those short arms when he's got to try and hook and/or bump a TE near the line (but not AT the line)...and what happens when he finds himself being drive blocked by an offensive tackle or a pretty big Tight End on a run play. Gotta answer those questions before I peg him for SOLB.

He COULD just be a fantastic WOLB with ridiculous athleticism and the ability to victimize anyone that's standing still or moving backward.

I like Graham, but I don't like his hand explosion or his ability to thrive with POA. I feel as if he was trying to bump a Tight End, especially one that is athletic, that will spell trouble. As a SOLB, Kellen Winslow and similar tight ends would have his WAYS with Graham when he is asked to bump. Imagine Graham trying to press Winslow and Winslow simply giving a step-back move off the line to release. Graham's short arms would be flailing and touch the air. I don't see Graham being a full-time start at SOLB. His energy and athletisiscm might prove me wrong, but I fully agree with that assessment that he can be a fantastic WOLB.

RealDriscoll
01-27-2010, 12:55 PM
I love Graham; One of my ten favorite players in this draft. I wouldn't take him at 12 though. I think this draft is loaded with 3-4 Outside Linebackers like Graham, Paul-Pierre, Hughes, Lang, Selvie, Antonio Coleman, Jamie Kirlew, Dexter Davis, pp, etc. McClain, Dez, Earl Thomas, and CJ Spiller are rare players.

hooshoops
01-27-2010, 12:59 PM
the question at wolb with graham is does he possess a large enough array of pass rush moves and does he have that first step explosiveness that imo an elite wolb needs to possess...

and can he close on the ball in a hurry...i'd say yes to this one

grahams style also for my eyes is more to go thru you rather than around you...

RealDriscoll
01-27-2010, 01:57 PM
I wouldn't mind Mike Iupati at this point either. With him and Jake on the Left Slide, Grove in the Middle, Vernon and Smiley on the right Side and I believe we have the best line in NFL

j-off-her-doll
01-27-2010, 03:41 PM
Yeah, I had us taking Graham when we were drafting around 20. 12 is too high. But, we'll see what happens.

Buff
01-27-2010, 09:10 PM
Edit - 24hours from the last pick, so if three picks are taken over a 24 hour period, ie Denver, Miami & J'ville, then who ever is next up gets 24 hrs from the J'ville pick, ans so on & so forth.

It was good fun last year. Some interesting picks & some interesting reasons why.

JT-forpresident
01-27-2010, 09:25 PM
sign me up for the atlanta falcons

j-off-her-doll
01-27-2010, 09:26 PM
I'll take the Steelers.

DeeAy3000
01-27-2010, 09:37 PM
I'll take the texans.

Buff
01-28-2010, 08:29 AM
Can we get this back to an original seperate thread please. Its become confusing with it merged with the other thread.

JCane
01-28-2010, 08:35 AM
Really great thread, tons of information on guys that I wouldn't mind learning more about.

I'm not a fan of drafting a NT at 12. Gimme a ILB, FS, RB or WR. We definitely aren't as bad as OLB as we are at ILB.

You give me this draft

1. Earl Thomas
2. Brandon Spikes

I couldn't be mad with those first 2 picks.

Man, I think you're a bit high on Brandon Spikes. That's not me being a true Gator Hater, that's just how I view Brandon Spikes. I think we've seen his stock fall since that SEC title game. It'll be interesting to see how he's tested at the combine.

RealDriscoll
01-28-2010, 10:07 AM
I'd rather form my judgements what I see on tape rather than what I can see at a combine.

RealDriscoll
01-28-2010, 11:30 AM
Correct me if I am wrong but to me we have a real luxury selecting at #12. We were in the playoff hunt until the last week of the season and selecting this high in the draft could really get us over the hump.

In Round 1 you have to hit a sure thing. Rolando McClain, Earl Thomas, Dez Bryant, and CJ Spiller are prime for that spot. I will not discount that Brandon Graham, Jared Odrick, and possibly even Mike Iupati could be in play but McClain, Thomas, Bryant, and Spiller really fill some major voids and are four of the best players in this draft.

You come to Round 2 and while you can wish that Brandon Spikes or Jerry Hughes falls to us at #43 it is not feasable. I really like what Mardy Gilyard brings in terms of a #2 receiver; He would complement Antonio Bryant nicely shall we chase him. I don't see LaFell being a good fit for us here. I think with this pick a guy like Jason Worlids of Virginia Tech stands out. Other players like Greg Hardy of Mississippi, Morgan Burnett of GT, Terrence Cody of Alabama, and even Damian Williams of USC have to be in play. The wild-card could be Dexter McCluster of Mississippi. The guy is a threat without question and the Dolphins coaching staff is getting a very good look at him. Nate Allen,FS of South Florida is another guy who excels in coverage.

Round 3 is an interesting round indeed. Taylor Price, who CK did an amazing piece on, is a perfect selection here. Brandon lang of Troy, Rob Gronkowski of Arizona , AJ Edds of Iowa, Jeremy Williams of Tulane, and Eric Norwood of South Carolina are other guys I like here.

Two players really stand out for me in Round4 and those are Jimmy Graham of Miami and Torrell Troup of Central Florida. Graham has been receiving a lot of attention and rumors have swirled that Parcells and Ireland have made trips to watch this kid.

You can make all of the mocks you want right now and they will change 10 times before the actual draft due to free agency and the combine. I expect the Fins to be fairly active in free agency and while having Brandon Marshall, Miles Austin, Vince Wilfork,Shawn Merriman, or Elvis Dumerville would be nice I don't expect any of them to find thier way to Miami. The guys who intrigue me off the bat are Karlos Dansby and Antonio Bryant. Dansby and Crowder would form a very nice tandem as ou Inside Backers and also allow us to search for alternate needs at #12. Bryant could be the #1 receiver for now and then we could focus on receiver with our 1st Rounder in the 2011 draft that features Michael Floyd, AJ Green, Julio Jones, and Jonathan Baldwin. Signing these two guys would put Earl Thomas and CJ Spiller in play for sure. Some other free agents I like include Marshall Yanda of the Ravens, Aubrayo Franklin, Ryan Pickett, and everyone else I like is Restricted due to the CBA.

RealDriscoll
01-28-2010, 12:15 PM
CK,

Chris, right? Just wnt through all of you're breakdowns and must say man that is friggin quality work. That Universal Draft site is going to something really good. Good work

zodiak
01-28-2010, 12:55 PM
good work guys on all levels, quick question.....

I have read in this thread posters mentioning Nolan using a 5-2 at times, Im a knowledgable football fan, just want to be sure Im understanding that is 5 DL & 2 LB's right? Merling was mentioned as being used in that defense so was curious if thats what you guys are meaning.

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 01:23 PM
CK,

Chris, right? Just wnt through all of you're breakdowns and must say man that is friggin quality work. That Universal Draft site is going to something really good. Good work

Now you're just tryin to get in my pants.

Thanks man, appreciate it. We're still tryin to figure out what we're gonna be. Are we something totally comprehensive that kills you with information on every single player alive? Or are we a draft blog that just offers quality information on whatever we're talking about, with a given that we're not going to cover every single subject.

Personally, I like the latter. I hate going mile wide and inch deep, ending up writing a few scant and cheap words about a guy that we don't really know that much about, focusing on rankings and mock drafts which are almost by definition a mile wide and inch deep, etc. When we put something out there I want the person reading it to feel the player, and think to themselves, I know this guy now. That's why I like the videos.

Anyway, glad you appreciate the site.

RealDriscoll
01-28-2010, 01:25 PM
I'd pay to subscribe for sure

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 01:36 PM
good work guys on all levels, quick question.....

I have read in this thread posters mentioning Nolan using a 5-2 at times, Im a knowledgable football fan, just want to be sure Im understanding that is 5 DL & 2 LB's right? Merling was mentioned as being used in that defense so was curious if thats what you guys are meaning.

If you ask me a 5-2 is basically still a 3-4 defense except instead of the OLBs starting the play with their hands off the ground, they start the play with their hands on the ground. You may want to ask yourself, why do that? I suspect, I'm not a coach but I suspect that indeed a guy popping up from a down stance and trying to release out into a coverage assignment would be at more of a disadvantage than if he'd started with his hand on the ground. So, one would think that with guys having their hands on the ground, the OL pretty much accepts that all 5 are rushing. Thing is, you can use that supposed predictability or assumption against an offense by going ahead and doing the unpredictable, and in certain situations being able to find a way to cover up for the disadvantage you're giving to a player by asking him to fulfill LB duties with his hand initially on the ground. For instance, what if the play calls for your SOLB to really destroy the heck out of the TE? How better to do that than to get his hand on the ground, lined up directly over him, so that he can prevent him going out on a route either because with 5 men predicted to rush the passer the TE now has to option in to block, or because your SOLB is able to just de-route the guy and screw up the timing right off the line at the snap.

Just little situational stuff like that, you can find the advantages in different alignment techniques.

What I imagine is we need to find ourselves a much more reliable WOLB pass rusher, if we're going to pull stunts like that. Hopefully that's Cameron Wake. The reason I say that is because you need to be able to rush the passer effectively with 3 DLs lined up in 2-gap alignments, plus one outside rusher. That way, the SOLB is free to destroy the Tight End, and doesn't have to be relied upon to get pressure.

Conuficus
01-28-2010, 03:40 PM
I'd pay to subscribe for sure

I'll send you an address, but don't tell Boom or CK?

:wink2:

:lol:

Conuficus
01-28-2010, 03:43 PM
Now you're just tryin to get in my pants.

Thanks man, appreciate it. We're still tryin to figure out what we're gonna be. Are we something totally comprehensive that kills you with information on every single player alive? Or are we a draft blog that just offers quality information on whatever we're talking about, with a given that we're not going to cover every single subject.

Personally, I like the latter. I hate going mile wide and inch deep, ending up writing a few scant and cheap words about a guy that we don't really know that much about, focusing on rankings and mock drafts which are almost by definition a mile wide and inch deep, etc. When we put something out there I want the person reading it to feel the player, and think to themselves, I know this guy now. That's why I like the videos.

Anyway, glad you appreciate the site.

The hard part is that we actually have jobs outside of this. Doing the videos maybe too much for everyone, but if we can do a good many of the people out there with videos and other simply through print as we did last year we can cover a good many players.

The workload can be nuts if we're not careful. We'll do as much as we can and everytime we get better at it. Compared to last year for instance our site was nothing compared to this.

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 03:58 PM
Fully agreed. Getting better as we go is key. For instance this time last year I didn't have near as convenient resources for pulling games. Next year, just imagine as I'll actually be able to spread out the work on a weekly basis...processing some of the week's games into video as we go through the college season instead of just trying to do it all in December through March.

Conuficus
01-28-2010, 04:33 PM
Fully agreed. Getting better as we go is key. For instance this time last year I didn't have near as convenient resources for pulling games. Next year, just imagine as I'll actually be able to spread out the work on a weekly basis...processing some of the week's games into video as we go through the college season instead of just trying to do it all in December through March.

Yeah. By the way, finally got the torrents to work last night so I can get some games. Ricky Sapp is who I'll do next as a video.

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 04:35 PM
I really would like to do one on JPP.

greasyObnoxious
01-28-2010, 04:36 PM
I really would like to do one on JPP.

can we make suggestions on which players you're going to evaluate next? lol

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 04:47 PM
Sure.

greasyObnoxious
01-28-2010, 04:49 PM
Sure.

since i can't find a heck of a whole lot about him, Amari Spievey would be nice.

RealDriscoll
01-28-2010, 04:57 PM
JPP would be awesome. Con, Boomer hates me so he probably wouldn't let me subscribe anyway

RealDriscoll
01-28-2010, 04:59 PM
The names I have been hearing throw the beat-writers on Twitter are Odrick, CJ Spiller, and Dez Bryant.

RealDriscoll
01-28-2010, 05:01 PM
I'm off work tomorrow so i was going to work on quick analysis of the following players who I consider "Radar Players" meaning people the Fins have or should have on radar. My work won't be at the level you see from CK and the guys b/c I am not at that level. The players I will be looking at include Rolando McClain, Brandon Spikes, Jerry Hughes, Brandon Graham, Jason Paul-Pierre, Mount Cody, Jared Odrick, Earl Thomas, CJ Spiller, Dez Bryant, and Jermaine Gresham. Anyone else?