PDA

View Full Version : Parcells previous drafts and upcoming year



normaniii
01-26-2010, 07:56 PM
I found interesting article on the impact Parcells left in Dallas due to draft and FA acquisitions:-

Terence Newman, Jason Witten,Bradie James,Pat Crayton.DeMarcus Ware, Marcus Spears, Marion Barber, Jay Ratliff.Bobby Carpenter, Jason Hatcher, Pat Watkins, Pat McQuistan, Kevin Burnet, Tony Romo, Miles Austin, Stephen Bowen, Romo, Sam Hurd, Cory Procter, Marc Columbo and Kyle Kosier.

When looking at this and the amount of control he had over the draft while in Dallas, I though I would look at his previous draft while GM of Jets in 2000:-

Shaun Ellis, John Abraham, Chad Pennington and L.Coles.

I was interested to see that most of these players bar the exception of Newman and Ware did next to nothing in their first year or two in NFL.

Made me think then of our current roster and how Parcells put in place the pieces of the current Cowboys D & O Lines (Parcells is also noted as having turned around Gurode's career).

Parcells first port of call in Miami was both lines. Our current O Line, Long, Smiley, Grove/Berger, Thomas/Garner, Carey is in 1st yr of playing together and should kick on from next yr on, especially considering our HC. Our D Line, Starks, Langford, Merling, McDaniel not including Ferguson are all athletic, young with size. When considering Parcells previous Defenses, he has never had a massive NT, i.e Burt, Howard and even J Ferguson and consequently Jay Ratliff. I believe one of the before mentioned Langford, Starks or Mcdaniel will become our NT in 2010.

When looking at previous drafts i was also condidering.......what is the most successful position for 1st year production in NFL?

IMO its MLB & OLB, consequently,IMO barring FS our weakest position.

When looking at our roster I am full of optimism. Heres why:-

Henne in really what was his rookie year will no doubt continue to improve 2010

I worry about R.Brown. When healthy I believe he is a TOP 5 RB.......When healthy. Ricky will want to finish on a high:chuckle: and I was impressed with Hilliard. I also believe we will draft RB in 4th or 5th and Cobbs is underated.

Fasano is not great at any one thing but good at most and I believe we draft athletic TE.

With Polite and healthy O Line, another year in, I honestly do not believe there is a better Run blocking unit in NFL.

When considering D Line I believe bewteen Starks, Langford, Merling and Mcdaniel we will have a very productive unit.

This is where i see big overhaul with the only one remaining from last year being Crowder. I see Cameron Wake playing a lot more under Nolan and I would not be surprised to see 2 rookie's starting at MLB and OLB. As stated this and RB is probably the easiest transition from college and I belive we draft in both areas.

Secondary........Rookies Smith & Davis perfomed admirably this year and no doubt will improve and be better for the steep learning curve they had this yr. I also love Will Allen. I believe he is very underated, very much like Ike Taylor in Pittsburgh, very good cover corner......but catch like they have no thumbs.

I like Chris Clemons. He has fantastic range which we lacked this year and is more suited to FS than Wilson. I do believe Wilson may push Bell for SS position next yr but I would not be surprised if we draft another safety this year.

Special Teams. Ted Ginn should be limited on offence and stick to what he does best........kick return, just look at Devin Hester and how he has been ruined.

Dan Carpenter superb and Brandon Fields underated are solid players.

With consistancy at OC which I believe is paramount in production of Henne and the addition of Nolan, I see big things ahead in what is the crucial 3rd year in the Parcells regime!

3Ply Stagliano
01-26-2010, 08:03 PM
When looking at previous drafts i was also condidering.......what is the most successful position for 1st year production in NFL?
I would have gone with runningback.

nyjunc
01-27-2010, 11:49 AM
I found interesting article on the impact Parcells left in Dallas due to draft and FA acquisitions:-

Terence Newman, Jason Witten,Bradie James,Pat Crayton.DeMarcus Ware, Marcus Spears, Marion Barber, Jay Ratliff.Bobby Carpenter, Jason Hatcher, Pat Watkins, Pat McQuistan, Kevin Burnet, Tony Romo, Miles Austin, Stephen Bowen, Romo, Sam Hurd, Cory Procter, Marc Columbo and Kyle Kosier.

When looking at this and the amount of control he had over the draft while in Dallas, I though I would look at his previous draft while GM of Jets in 2000:-

Shaun Ellis, John Abraham, Chad Pennington and L.Coles.

I was interested to see that most of these players bar the exception of Newman and Ware did next to nothing in their first year or two in NFL.

Made me think then of our current roster and how Parcells put in place the pieces of the current Cowboys D & O Lines (Parcells is also noted as having turned around Gurode's career).

Parcells first port of call in Miami was both lines. Our current O Line, Long, Smiley, Grove/Berger, Thomas/Garner, Carey is in 1st yr of playing together and should kick on from next yr on, especially considering our HC. Our D Line, Starks, Langford, Merling, McDaniel not including Ferguson are all athletic, young with size. When considering Parcells previous Defenses, he has never had a massive NT, i.e Burt, Howard and even J Ferguson and consequently Jay Ratliff. I believe one of the before mentioned Langford, Starks or Mcdaniel will become our NT in 2010.

When looking at previous drafts i was also condidering.......what is the most successful position for 1st year production in NFL?

IMO its MLB & OLB, consequently,IMO barring FS our weakest position.

When looking at our roster I am full of optimism. Heres why:-

Henne in really what was his rookie year will no doubt continue to improve 2010

I worry about R.Brown. When healthy I believe he is a TOP 5 RB.......When healthy. Ricky will want to finish on a high:chuckle: and I was impressed with Hilliard. I also believe we will draft RB in 4th or 5th and Cobbs is underated.

Fasano is not great at any one thing but good at most and I believe we draft athletic TE.

With Polite and healthy O Line, another year in, I honestly do not believe there is a better Run blocking unit in NFL.

When considering D Line I believe bewteen Starks, Langford, Merling and Mcdaniel we will have a very productive unit.

This is where i see big overhaul with the only one remaining from last year being Crowder. I see Cameron Wake playing a lot more under Nolan and I would not be surprised to see 2 rookie's starting at MLB and OLB. As stated this and RB is probably the easiest transition from college and I belive we draft in both areas.

Secondary........Rookies Smith & Davis perfomed admirably this year and no doubt will improve and be better for the steep learning curve they had this yr. I also love Will Allen. I believe he is very underated, very much like Ike Taylor in Pittsburgh, very good cover corner......but catch like they have no thumbs.

I like Chris Clemons. He has fantastic range which we lacked this year and is more suited to FS than Wilson. I do believe Wilson may push Bell for SS position next yr but I would not be surprised if we draft another safety this year.

Special Teams. Ted Ginn should be limited on offence and stick to what he does best........kick return, just look at Devin Hester and how he has been ruined.

Dan Carpenter superb and Brandon Fields underated are solid players.

With consistancy at OC which I believe is paramount in production of Henne and the addition of Nolan, I see big things ahead in what is the crucial 3rd year in the Parcells regime!


That talent he left in dallas he couldn't win a playoff game w/ and in the 3 years since he has been gone they have won a total of ONE playoff game.


He was NOT in charge of the 2000 draft, Al groh was. Check the atrocious 1997-1999 Jets drafts to see what he did for us drafting wise.

Tunaphish429
01-27-2010, 11:54 AM
That talent he left in dallas he couldn't win a playoff game w/ and in the 3 years since he has been gone they have won a total of ONE playoff game.


He was NOT in charge of the 2000 draft, Al groh was. Check the atrocious 1997-1999 Jets drafts to see what he did for us drafting wise.

Parcells..

Was he not the head football ops guy in 2000?

nyjunc
01-27-2010, 11:58 AM
Parcells..

Was he not the head football ops guy in 2000?

He was BUT he gave the power to Al Groh.



Groh already has the final word on personnel matters: the draft, free agency, the hiring of coaches and the support people who make up a football operation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/01/30/sports/pro-football-he-s-just-barely-settled-in-but-groh-holds-jets-reins.html?scp=16&sq=al%20groh%20jets%20draft%202000&st=cse


Groh had enjoyed a moderately successful first season as the head coach after serving as the Jets' linebackers coach under Parcells for three years. He endured scathing criticism for orchestrating the off-season trade of receiver Keyshawn Johnson to Tampa Bay for two first-round draft picks, and players grumbled about his rigorous practice schedule early in the season. But Groh also presided over the Jets' draft, in which they had an unprecedented four first-round picks, and he led the team to a 4-0 start, which stretched to 6-1. They gained a reputation for mental toughness and became the darlings of the viewing audience with four fourth-quarter comebacks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/12/31/sports/pro-football-groh-jolts-jets-and-resigns-as-coach-after-one-season.html?scp=2&sq=al%20groh%20jets%20draft%202000&st=cse


Ultimately, though, the Jets' new head coach, Al Groh, has the final say on personnel matters, a power that Parcells himself ceded to Groh when he named Groh as his successor

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/03/10/sports/pro-football-jets-are-talking-but-no-word-on-johnson.html?scp=19&sq=al%20groh%20jets%20draft%202000&st=cse

lbmclean_sj
01-27-2010, 12:00 PM
That talent he left in dallas he couldn't win a playoff game w/ and in the 3 years since he has been gone they have won a total of ONE playoff game.


He was NOT in charge of the 2000 draft, Al groh was. Check the atrocious 1997-1999 Jets drafts to see what he did for us drafting wise.

he brought alot of talent to the cowboys as I pointed out and all you talk about is the Jets

isn't there a jetswhiner.com you can go to?

Tunaphish429
01-27-2010, 12:01 PM
He was BUT he gave the power to Al Groh.




http://www.nytimes.com/2000/01/30/sports/pro-football-he-s-just-barely-settled-in-but-groh-holds-jets-reins.html?scp=16&sq=al%20groh%20jets%20draft%202000&st=cse



http://www.nytimes.com/2000/12/31/sports/pro-football-groh-jolts-jets-and-resigns-as-coach-after-one-season.html?scp=2&sq=al%20groh%20jets%20draft%202000&st=cse



http://www.nytimes.com/2000/03/10/sports/pro-football-jets-are-talking-but-no-word-on-johnson.html?scp=19&sq=al%20groh%20jets%20draft%202000&st=cse

Got ya..

But I am sure Bill had alot to do with what was going on...

Its not like he just turned the other way..

Right?

nyjunc
01-27-2010, 12:02 PM
he brought alot of talent to the cowboys as I pointed out and all you talk about is the Jets

isn't there a jetswhiner.com you can go to?

so much talent that has only ONE playoff win.

Parcells is an all-time great Head Coach, he is a mediocre evaluator of talent.

I apologize if the truth hurts a bit. The bets thing he did in Miami was set you up w/ Ireland. You shoulod be rooting for him to sail into the sunset at this point.

truedolfan57
01-27-2010, 12:04 PM
That talent he left in dallas he couldn't win a playoff game w/ and in the 3 years since he has been gone they have won a total of ONE playoff game.



They still have a butt load of talent on that team. And how are you blaming Parcells for their lack of winning in the playoffs AFTER he leaves? For all you know, he could have taken the cowboys to the super bowl these last two years had parcells stayed.

PS, Jerry Jones is a douche.

nyjunc
01-27-2010, 12:05 PM
Got ya..

But I am sure Bill had alot to do with what was going on...

Its not like he just turned the other way..

Right?

Absolutely, I'm sure he was invovled but groh made those picks. BP got us a 1st rd pick for Belichick as he was the one who negotiated w/ Kraft. I think it's safe to say that didn't work out so well.


I love that BP turned us from laughing stock into one of the better AFC franchises but he did that more w/ coaching than personnel moves.

-He cost us peyton manning by not telling them he'd take him if were to come out in 1997.

-he turned the #1 poick in the '97 draft(Orlando Pace) into james farrior and a bunch of other guys who were off the Jets w/in a few years.

-He cost us belichick

-He walked out w/o completing the job.

Tunaphish429
01-27-2010, 12:06 PM
so much talent that has only ONE playoff win.

Parcells is an all-time great Head Coach, he is a mediocre evaluator of talent.

I apologize if the truth hurts a bit. The bets thing he did in Miami was set you up w/ Ireland. You shoulod be rooting for him to sail into the sunset at this point.

I dont know about that...

They have alot of great Talent in Dallas and again I am sure he had alot to say about every player that was picked..

May not have had the final say all the time but I bet he had alot of say..

Phins were 1 and 15...then we Go 11 and 5 with Parcell's

If I ever met Parcells I would Thank him up and down for what he and his staff has done for Miami...Playoff win or no Playoff win...

We went from a laughing stock of a league to a divsion winner

nyjunc
01-27-2010, 12:06 PM
They still have a butt load of talent on that team. And how are you blaming Parcells for their lack of winning in the playoffs AFTER he leaves? For all you know, he could have taken the cowboys to the super bowl these last two years had parcells stayed.

PS, Jerry Jones is a douche.

Maybe that talent is overrated? Parcells won ZERO playoff games w/ that talent so he had a chance and HE walked away in 2007- he wasn't fired. If he thought he was winning a SB w/ that talent there is no way he leaves.

finforlife
01-27-2010, 12:08 PM
That talent he left in dallas he couldn't win a playoff game w/ and in the 3 years since he has been gone they have won a total of ONE playoff game.


He was NOT in charge of the 2000 draft, Al groh was. Check the atrocious 1997-1999 Jets drafts to see what he did for us drafting wise.

In fairness to Parcells, they didn't have first round picks in two of those seasons. One of those was given to NE for Parcellls compensation and the other was traded for Curtis Martin, which I think most Jet fans would agree was a good move.

He still managed to bring in James Farrior, Jason Ferguson, Randy Thomas, Leon Johnson and Jason Fabini during those years and they all turned out to be productive players for many years and some of them are still playing today.

I know you also like to point out those Dallas teams have only won one playoff game, but a better coach then Wade Phillips would be doing more with a talented bunch.

So is A.J. Smith in San Diego overrated as well because the Chargers have all that talent, yet continue to lose playoff games?

Tunaphish429
01-27-2010, 12:09 PM
Maybe that talent is overrated? Parcells won ZERO playoff games w/ that talent so he had a chance and HE walked away in 2007- he wasn't fired. If he thought he was winning a SB w/ that talent there is no way he leaves.


He did not wanna coach anymore..

Guy is getting old..He wanted a desk job...not to mention Jones brought in TO and Parcells did not like that.

lbmclean_sj
01-27-2010, 12:12 PM
so much talent that has only ONE playoff win.

Parcells is an all-time great Head Coach, he is a mediocre evaluator of talent.

I apologize if the truth hurts a bit. The bets thing he did in Miami was set you up w/ Ireland. You shoulod be rooting for him to sail into the sunset at this point.

get a life already

truedolfan57
01-27-2010, 12:14 PM
Maybe that talent is overrated? Parcells won ZERO playoff games w/ that talent so he had a chance and HE walked away in 2007- he wasn't fired. If he thought he was winning a SB w/ that talent there is no way he leaves.
That talent was still very young. And you don't know his situation. He probably felt he couldn't run the team the way he wanted anymore because Jerry Jones likes to stick his nose in every aspect of the team. Of course it's all hearsay, but you can't blame a guy for a team he no longer has control over. That's just retarded. I do believe Wade phillips is a moron and is wasting the talent on that team.

And their talent is overrated? Please list all players parcells help bring in that is overrated.

nyjunc
01-27-2010, 12:24 PM
In fairness to Parcells, they didn't have first round picks in two of those seasons. One of those was given to NE for Parcellls compensation and the other was traded for Curtis Martin, which I think most Jet fans would agree was a good move.

He still managed to bring in James Farrior, Jason Ferguson, Randy Thomas, Leon Johnson and Jason Fabini during those years and they all turned out to be productive players for many years and some of them are still playing today.

I know you also like to point out those Dallas teams have only won one playoff game, but a better coach then Wade Phillips would be doing more with a talented bunch.

So is A.J. Smith in San Diego overrated as well because the Chargers have all that talent, yet continue to lose playoff games?

You don't need to have 1st rd picks to have good drafts. He inheirted the #1 pick overall in the draft.


Farrior is a good player but we traded down from the #1 overall pick. Farrior had one good year for us in 5 years then became really good in Pitt but he was never worth orlando Pace.

We lucked into ferguson, he failed a drug test and dropped to the 7th or we never get him.

Randy thomas was really good.

Leon ws good before the injuries.

Fabini was a solid tackle.

But look at the rest of his drafts:

1997:

1997 1 1 8 8 James Farrior LB Virginia
2 2 1 31 Rick Terry DT North Carolina
3 3 28 88 Dedric Ward WR Northern Iowa
4 4 6 102 Terry Day DE Mississippi State
5 4 8 104 Leon Johnson RB North Carolina
6 5 1 131 Lamont Burns G East Carolina
7 5 15 145 Raymond Austin DB Tennessee
8 6 1 164 Tim Scharf LB Northwestern
9 6 28 191 Chuck Clements QB Houston
10 7 1 202 Steve Rosga DB Colorado
11 7 28 229 Jason Ferguson DT Georgia

Rick terry was our 2nd rd pick and only played 1 year for us and 3 years in the NFL

Terry day played 1 year in the NFL

Lamont Burns 1 year in the NFL

Raymond Auston, 1 year for us, 3 years in the NFL

Tim Scharf never played a down in the NFL

Chuck Clements was w/ us for one year

Steve Rosga never played a down in the NFL

Of our 11 draft picks7 of them were out of the NFL w/in 3 years.


1998:

1998 1 2 26 56 Dorian Boose DT Washington State
2 3 6 67 Scott Frost DB Nebraska
3 3 26 87 Kevin Williams DB Oklahoma State
4 4 19 111 Jason Fabini T Cincinnati
5 5 11 134 Casey Dailey LB Northwestern
6 5 18 141 Doug Karczewski T Virginia
7 5 23 146 Blake Spence TE Oregon
8 5 26 149 Eric Bateman T Brigham Young
9 6 10 163 Eric Ogbogu DT Maryland
10 6 21 174 Chris Brazzell WR Angelo State
11 6 30 183 Dustin Johnson RB Brigham Young
12 7 6 195 Lawrence Hart TE Southern

Boose was our 1st pick of thhat draft(rd 2), never started a game for us. Played 4 years in the NFL

Frost started 1 game for us in 3 years

Kevin williams played 4 years in the NFL

Casey dailey played 1 year

Doug Karczewski never played a down

Blake Spence had 4 recs in 3 years in the NFL

Eric Bateman never played a down

Ogbogu started 4 games(w/ dallas0 in his 7 yr career)

Chris Brazzell never played a down for us, lasted 2 years in the NFL

Dustin Johnson never played a down for us, played 1 year in the NFL

Same for lawrence Hart


12 picks in 1998 and 9 of the picks were out of the league w/in 4 years.


1999:

1999 1 2 26 57 Randy Thomas G Mississippi State
2 3 29 90 David Loverne G San Jose State
3 4 28 123 Jason Wiltz DT Nebraska
4 5 29 162 Jermaine Jones DB Northwestern State (LA)
5 6 14 183 Marc Megna LB Richmond
6 6 28 197 J.P. Machado G Illinois
7 7 17 223 Ryan Young T Kansas State
8 7 29 235 J.J. Syvrud DE Jamestown


Loverne played 2 years for us, never started a game.

Wiltz started 2 games in his 2 year NFL career

Jones played 1 year for us and 2 in the NFL

Megna never played a down for us, his NFL career lasted one season.

Syvrud lasted one year in the NFL

We had 8 picks, 5 of them were out of the league w/in 2 years.



as for Dallas, they had a much better cpach than Wade and he couldn't win a playoff game- his name was Bill parcells.


SD in the last 3 postseasons has been in the div rd twice and in the title game once. That's a little different than Dallas. They have 3 postseason wins the last 3 years compared to one for Dallas since 1997.

nyjunc
01-27-2010, 12:26 PM
get a life already

Stop acting like a child, either participate in the discussion or move along.


That talent was still very young. And you don't know his situation. He probably felt he couldn't run the team the way he wanted anymore because Jerry Jones likes to stick his nose in every aspect of the team. Of course it's all hearsay, but you can't blame a guy for a team he no longer has control over. That's just retarded. I do believe Wade phillips is a moron and is wasting the talent on that team.

And their talent is overrated? Please list all players parcells help bring in that is overrated.

When a team has one playoff win since 2003 when BP took over, how great can the talent really be?

truedolfan57
01-27-2010, 12:33 PM
Stop acting like a child, either participate in the discussion or move along.



When a team has one playoff win since 2003 when BP took over, how great can the talent really be?
There have been tons of teams in all sports that had great talent, but could never win anything meaningful. It's not really easy to explain, but it doesn't mean there isn't really good talent on the team. Ball just doesn't bounce the right way sometimes. Ask Romo about that. lol That's not parcells fault.

Tunaphish429
01-27-2010, 12:35 PM
Everyone misses..

You can not hit on all your picks.

So far I am very happy with the staff and moves we have made..

We have had some free agent busts and some hits..

You win some you lose some...

lbmclean_sj
01-27-2010, 12:37 PM
Stop acting like a child, either participate in the discussion or move along.



When a team has one playoff win since 2003 when BP took over, how great can the talent really be?

you are gonna jump on every Tuna thread on a dolphins board for the rest of your life?

take a look in the mirror

Tunaphish429
01-27-2010, 12:44 PM
The thing that Parcells has done for every orginazation that he has been apart of is turn them around..

He turned around the Giants. The Pats , the Cowboys and the Phins...

The guy is a great football guy.

Were lucky to have him and so were the Jets...

I do agree his drafts were not great while he was the coach of the Jets but that one draft that he was def apart of in 2000 was sick....

I cant really comment on the other players I honestly was not following football in depth and can not comment on the Pre 2000 draft..So I will take your word for those drafts being bad

DANTODUPER
01-27-2010, 01:38 PM
You don't need to have 1st rd picks to have good drafts. He inheirted the #1 pick overall in the draft.


Farrior is a good player but we traded down from the #1 overall pick. Farrior had one good year for us in 5 years then became really good in Pitt but he was never worth orlando Pace.

as for Dallas, they had a much better cpach than Wade and he couldn't win a playoff game- his name was Bill parcells.


SD in the last 3 postseasons has been in the div rd twice and in the title game once. That's a little different than Dallas. They have 3 postseason wins the last 3 years compared to one for Dallas since 1997.

I think that your argument is not valid. Everyone misses on 4th-7th round players more often than not. The good thing a good drafter does is to select players that change the game. If you get one per year you are considered a Guru, the rest of the draftees will help to elevate the performance of the team. J. Johnson was such a good drafter because he hit on Surtain, Madison, Thomas and Taylor, and that was enough for us to be contending with a joke of a coach (Wandstet) after he left. All of them were special, but the majority of players drafted were solid at best. By the way none of them were 1st rounders, and he left without landing a single "special" offensive player. Still, I believe that the defense he was able to build under his regime was close to outstanding, and after he left the only special players he had, were the ones he drafted on D.

That being said, what I like of BP so far is that on his first draft he ignored Beck and drafted a QB (Henne), and if Henne, Langford, Davis and Long are the special players they are showing they can turn in, that’s all it will take to consider Ireland/Parcells regime successful (so far).

finforlife
01-27-2010, 01:54 PM
You don't need to have 1st rd picks to have good drafts. He inheirted the #1 pick overall in the draft.


Farrior is a good player but we traded down from the #1 overall pick. Farrior had one good year for us in 5 years then became really good in Pitt but he was never worth orlando Pace.

We lucked into ferguson, he failed a drug test and dropped to the 7th or we never get him.

Randy thomas was really good.

Leon ws good before the injuries.

Fabini was a solid tackle.

But look at the rest of his drafts:

1997:

1997 1 1 8 8 James Farrior LB Virginia
2 2 1 31 Rick Terry DT North Carolina
3 3 28 88 Dedric Ward WR Northern Iowa
4 4 6 102 Terry Day DE Mississippi State
5 4 8 104 Leon Johnson RB North Carolina
6 5 1 131 Lamont Burns G East Carolina
7 5 15 145 Raymond Austin DB Tennessee
8 6 1 164 Tim Scharf LB Northwestern
9 6 28 191 Chuck Clements QB Houston
10 7 1 202 Steve Rosga DB Colorado
11 7 28 229 Jason Ferguson DT Georgia

Rick terry was our 2nd rd pick and only played 1 year for us and 3 years in the NFL

Terry day played 1 year in the NFL

Lamont Burns 1 year in the NFL

Raymond Auston, 1 year for us, 3 years in the NFL

Tim Scharf never played a down in the NFL

Chuck Clements was w/ us for one year

Steve Rosga never played a down in the NFL

Of our 11 draft picks7 of them were out of the NFL w/in 3 years.


1998:

1998 1 2 26 56 Dorian Boose DT Washington State
2 3 6 67 Scott Frost DB Nebraska
3 3 26 87 Kevin Williams DB Oklahoma State
4 4 19 111 Jason Fabini T Cincinnati
5 5 11 134 Casey Dailey LB Northwestern
6 5 18 141 Doug Karczewski T Virginia
7 5 23 146 Blake Spence TE Oregon
8 5 26 149 Eric Bateman T Brigham Young
9 6 10 163 Eric Ogbogu DT Maryland
10 6 21 174 Chris Brazzell WR Angelo State
11 6 30 183 Dustin Johnson RB Brigham Young
12 7 6 195 Lawrence Hart TE Southern

Boose was our 1st pick of thhat draft(rd 2), never started a game for us. Played 4 years in the NFL

Frost started 1 game for us in 3 years

Kevin williams played 4 years in the NFL

Casey dailey played 1 year

Doug Karczewski never played a down

Blake Spence had 4 recs in 3 years in the NFL

Eric Bateman never played a down

Ogbogu started 4 games(w/ dallas0 in his 7 yr career)

Chris Brazzell never played a down for us, lasted 2 years in the NFL

Dustin Johnson never played a down for us, played 1 year in the NFL

Same for lawrence Hart


12 picks in 1998 and 9 of the picks were out of the league w/in 4 years.


1999:

1999 1 2 26 57 Randy Thomas G Mississippi State
2 3 29 90 David Loverne G San Jose State
3 4 28 123 Jason Wiltz DT Nebraska
4 5 29 162 Jermaine Jones DB Northwestern State (LA)
5 6 14 183 Marc Megna LB Richmond
6 6 28 197 J.P. Machado G Illinois
7 7 17 223 Ryan Young T Kansas State
8 7 29 235 J.J. Syvrud DE Jamestown


Loverne played 2 years for us, never started a game.

Wiltz started 2 games in his 2 year NFL career

Jones played 1 year for us and 2 in the NFL

Megna never played a down for us, his NFL career lasted one season.

Syvrud lasted one year in the NFL

We had 8 picks, 5 of them were out of the league w/in 2 years.



as for Dallas, they had a much better cpach than Wade and he couldn't win a playoff game- his name was Bill parcells.


SD in the last 3 postseasons has been in the div rd twice and in the title game once. That's a little different than Dallas. They have 3 postseason wins the last 3 years compared to one for Dallas since 1997.



The bottom line is this. Parcells inheritied a 1-15 football team and had them in the AFC championship game in two years. Through a combination of trades (Martin), free agents (Testaverde) and drafting, he built a team that when he stepped down in 2000, made the playoffs three of the next five years.

Regardless of what you think of him or his track record, you can't argue that the culture of the Jets franchise changed when he took over.

Same thing in Dallas. They were a wreck in 2002 under Campos and Parcells immediately changed that. That roster was nearly as bad as the Dolphins roster in 2007 and he had to spend the next four years changing it.
No, they didn't win any playoff games under Parcells, but he also stepped down from coaching before many of those players (Ware, Romo, Austin, etc.) were beginning to hit their primes.

Is he perfect? Of course not, but what GM is. All that said, I'm glad he's been in Miami the past two years because we actually have hope. Something I didn't think was possible after a 1-15 year.

BillParFan
01-27-2010, 02:11 PM
he brought alot of talent to the cowboys as I pointed out and all you talk about is the Jets

isn't there a jetswhiner.com you can go to?

Don't you know junky.........

I am here to educate, especially posters like you who barely know if a football is pumped w/ air or stuffed w/ feathers. You are here for some comedy(although those photoshops get boring after a while). I am here to talk football. You can choose to pay attention and learn or attack me, you choose to attack and you don't acquire more knowledge. Too bad for you.

A true legend in his own mind.

zodiak
01-27-2010, 02:26 PM
Absolutely, I'm sure he was invovled but groh made those picks. BP got us a 1st rd pick for Belichick as he was the one who negotiated w/ Kraft. I think it's safe to say that didn't work out so well.


I love that BP turned us from laughing stock into one of the better AFC franchises but he did that more w/ coaching than personnel moves.

-He cost us peyton manning by not telling them he'd take him if were to come out in 1997.

-he turned the #1 poick in the '97 draft(Orlando Pace) into james farrior and a bunch of other guys who were off the Jets w/in a few years.

-He cost us belichick

-He walked out w/o completing the job.


How did he cost the Jets Belicheck, he was hired and resigned
Al Groh who you credit for better drafting than Parcells alos "walked out" on the jets...you should have more resentment towards Groh than Parcells since he is in your opinion a better talent evaluator.

Funny thing to me is Parcells,Belicheck & Groh in succession quit on the Jets.

Zounds
01-27-2010, 02:29 PM
You cant really credit any Dallas drafts to BP, as we all know Jerry Jones had final say. Im sure BP had a lot to do with it, but it wasnt his call.

lbmclean_sj
01-27-2010, 03:16 PM
You cant really credit any Dallas drafts to BP, as we all know Jerry Jones had final say. Im sure BP had a lot to do with it, but it wasnt his call.

so Jerry Jones knew all about UDFA Austin Miles and all the day 2 picks?

it may have been Ireland but it sure as hell wasn't JJ

HeartbreakKid28
01-27-2010, 03:49 PM
The problem to me is the Cowboys try to be like the Yankees of the NFL[as do the Redskins]. The problem is that doesn't work in the NFL. [who knows- it might this season with no CBA, but there are rules that will affect the Cowboys since they made the final 8.]

In Miami Parcells doesn't butt heads with people. It's more of a collaboration with Ireland and Sparano. I'm fine with the Parcells drafts with the Dolphins so far. The only thing I really dont like was Pat White in the 2nd round. They nailed it with Sean Smith and Vontae Davis and Brian Hartline already though. And Jake Long, Henne, Merling, Langford, Hilliard in 2008. I'd give our "Parcells Drafts" a B-. This obviously will go up[or down] depending on Henne, Hartline, Smith, Davis especially improving on the 2009 season. Of course the others as well, but those 4 are the biggest.

j-off-her-doll
01-27-2010, 03:59 PM
I do get the feeling that Ireland evaluates talent better than BP.

JT-forpresident
01-27-2010, 04:36 PM
That talent he left in dallas he couldn't win a playoff game w/ and in the 3 years since he has been gone they have won a total of ONE playoff game.


He was NOT in charge of the 2000 draft, Al groh was. Check the atrocious 1997-1999 Jets drafts to see what he did for us drafting wise.


so you put the blame for dallas' miscues on parcells' draft during his tenure there ?!

i'm sorry, but three names pop to my head waaaaaaaaaaay before Bill Parcells:

1- jerry jones
2- wade phillips
3- tony "choke" romo


on the offensive side, bill had some problems building something, but on defence... sheeeeshh ... he drafted some big time talent

NY8123
01-27-2010, 05:47 PM
That talent he left in dallas he couldn't win a playoff game w/ and in the 3 years since he has been gone they have won a total of ONE playoff game.


He was NOT in charge of the 2000 draft, Al groh was. Check the atrocious 1997-1999 Jets drafts to see what he did for us drafting wise.


Ok so Parcells can not evaluate or coach talent by what you suggest so I guess the following resume isn’t that impressive then:

Miami: 2 years with and before Bill
2008 to 2009 – Overall record of 18 and 14
2006 to 2007 – Overall record of 7 and 25

Cowboy: 4 years with and before Bill
2003 to 2006 – Overall record of 34 and 30 with Bill
1999 to 2002 – Overall record of 23 and 41 before Bill

Jets: 4 years with and before Bill
1997 to 2000 - Overall record 38 and 26 with Bill
1993 to 1996 – Overall record of 18 and 46 before Bill

Patriots: 4 with and before Bill
1993 to 1996 – Overall record of 32 and 32 with Bill
1989 to 1992 – Overall record of 14 and 50 before Bill

Giants: 7 years with and before Bill
1983 to 1990 – Overall record of 77 and 49 with Bill
1975 to 1982 – Overall record of 43 and 73 before Bill

So in summation as a coach or in the front office:
With the New York football Giants his winning percentage was .611 as opposed to .371 the seven years prior.
With the Patriots his winning percentage was .500 as opposed to .220 the four years prior
With the New York Jets his winning percentage was .613 as opposed to .281 the four years prior
With the Cowboy his winning percentage was .532 as opposed to .360 the four years prior
With the Dolphins his winning percentage was .562 as opposed to .220 the two years prior

With 11 playoff appearances in 21 years as a coach or in the front office, and is 2 for 3 in the Super Bowl.

I guess if his evaluation of coaching staffs, player talent, player utilization, drafting and general football knowledge is not up to par, this Dolphins fan is happy to have his non-talent drafting, non-coach finding, under appreciated happy *** right where I think it belongs – in the front office of the Miami Dolphins turning it back into the once proud franchise the dominated every aspect of the AFC East.

nyjunc
01-28-2010, 07:22 AM
so you put the blame for dallas' miscues on parcells' draft during his tenure there ?!

i'm sorry, but three names pop to my head waaaaaaaaaaay before Bill Parcells:

1- jerry jones
2- wade phillips
3- tony "choke" romo


on the offensive side, bill had some problems building something, but on defence... sheeeeshh ... he drafted some big time talent

I am not blaming Parcells for Dallas not winning now, I am just not giving him too much credit for all the "great talent" he assembled. If that talent was that great they'd be winning more playoff games.

Jerry Jones has been part of more SB winning teams than BP has

Phillip[s is not a good playoff coach but in 2 playoff apps w/ Dallas he has more playoff wins than BP had in 2 playoff apps w/ Dallas.

BP gets credit for getting lucky w/ Romo but when Romo chokes it helps BP? This is my point, no matter what happens he always gets credit. if he walks into a team and wins w/ another regimes players it's b/c of BP but when he leaves and another coach comes in and wins it's b/c of BP.


Ok so Parcells can not evaluate or coach talent by what you suggest so I guess the following resume isn’t that impressive then:

Miami: 2 years with and before Bill
2008 to 2009 – Overall record of 18 and 14
2006 to 2007 – Overall record of 7 and 25

Cowboy: 4 years with and before Bill
2003 to 2006 – Overall record of 34 and 30 with Bill
1999 to 2002 – Overall record of 23 and 41 before Bill

Jets: 4 years with and before Bill
1997 to 2000 - Overall record 38 and 26 with Bill
1993 to 1996 – Overall record of 18 and 46 before Bill

Patriots: 4 with and before Bill
1993 to 1996 – Overall record of 32 and 32 with Bill
1989 to 1992 – Overall record of 14 and 50 before Bill

Giants: 7 years with and before Bill
1983 to 1990 – Overall record of 77 and 49 with Bill
1975 to 1982 – Overall record of 43 and 73 before Bill

So in summation as a coach or in the front office:
With the New York football Giants his winning percentage was .611 as opposed to .371 the seven years prior.
With the Patriots his winning percentage was .500 as opposed to .220 the four years prior
With the New York Jets his winning percentage was .613 as opposed to .281 the four years prior
With the Cowboy his winning percentage was .532 as opposed to .360 the four years prior
With the Dolphins his winning percentage was .562 as opposed to .220 the two years prior

With 11 playoff appearances in 21 years as a coach or in the front office, and is 2 for 3 in the Super Bowl.

I guess if his evaluation of coaching staffs, player talent, player utilization, drafting and general football knowledge is not up to par, this Dolphins fan is happy to have his non-talent drafting, non-coach finding, under appreciated happy *** right where I think it belongs – in the front office of the Miami Dolphins turning it back into the once proud franchise the dominated every aspect of the AFC East.

Like I said, he's a HOF coach but a mediocre evaluator of talent.

His 2 SB wins came when he wasn't picking players, his 3rd SB app came when he was stripped of that power or else they wouldn't have made it in 1996. He has had power to pick players for 12 years now(i'll add the Miami years) and in those 12 seasons his teams have won a grand total of ONE playoff game.

NY8123
01-28-2010, 09:12 AM
I am not blaming Parcells for Dallas not winning now, I am just not giving him too much credit for all the "great talent" he assembled. If that talent was that great they'd be winning more playoff games.

Jerry Jones has been part of more SB winning teams than BP has

Phillip[s is not a good playoff coach but in 2 playoff apps w/ Dallas he has more playoff wins than BP had in 2 playoff apps w/ Dallas.

BP gets credit for getting lucky w/ Romo but when Romo chokes it helps BP? This is my point, no matter what happens he always gets credit. if he walks into a team and wins w/ another regimes players it's b/c of BP but when he leaves and another coach comes in and wins it's b/c of BP.



Like I said, he's a HOF coach but a mediocre evaluator of talent.

His 2 SB wins came when he wasn't picking players, his 3rd SB app came when he was stripped of that power or else they wouldn't have made it in 1996. He has had power to pick players for 12 years now(i'll add the Miami years) and in those 12 seasons his teams have won a grand total of ONE playoff game.


If he is a Hall of Fame coach he obviously is not a mediocre evaluator of talent. You simple do not get to that level being mediocre. Is he the best that ever lived in the area, no but he is far above average in his ability to find hidden gems in the draft and use the talent to build a team.

The two years after he left the Jets they went to the playoffs and that team did not do a total roster overhaul like the one Miami had when Bill took the reins so basically it was his foundation the same can be said with New England and the Cowboys.

When you work the front office you can only give the talent to the coaching staff and the coaching staff can only try and get the players to execute and stay focused. They can not play the games for them.

The Jets are a prime example this year they backed into the playoffs and got to play a hugely overrated Cincy team and beat San Diego who only beat 3 teams with winning records all season. Some times when you get to the post season luck is as much a part as talent and an average team with a little luck can go a long way and the same can be said about the draft, you need luck to find hidden talent because you can not force a player to excel, prime example is Ginn the dude has all the tools to be good but no desire, complete waste of talent.

nyjunc
01-28-2010, 09:18 AM
If he is a Hall of Fame coach he obviously is not a mediocre evaluator of talent. You simple do not get to that level being mediocre. Is he the best that ever lived in the area, no but he is far above average in his ability to find hidden gems in the draft and use the talent to build a team.

The two years after he left the Jets they went to the playoffs and that team did not do a total roster overhaul like the one Miami had when Bill took the reins so basically it was his foundation the same can be said with New England and the Cowboys.

When you work the front office you can only give the talent to the coaching staff and the coaching staff can only try and get the players to execute and stay focused. They can not play the games for them.

The Jets are a prime example this year they backed into the playoffs and got to play a hugely overrated Cincy team and beat San Diego who only beat 3 teams with winning records all season. Some times when you get to the post season luck is as much a part as talent and an average team with a little luck can go a long way.


The man has ONE win in years where he has picked players, his only SBs came when he wasn't picking players.

From 1997-2000 w/ him in charge of everything we made one postseason, he gets crdit b/c we made it in '01 and '02 after he left? and yes we didn't have a total roster overhaul in 2001(still had alot of pre-Parcells players) but in '02 we did. We had 6 new starters on D.


Yep we backed into the playoffs by winning the games we were supposed to win to get in then we beat up a quality Cincy team on the road and in my opinion the best team in the AFC on the road a week later but it was all luck.

12 years running the show, ONE postseason win. You can use the luck excuse all you want but you would think in 12 years he'd find some luck.

NY8123
01-28-2010, 09:32 AM
The man has ONE win in years where he has picked players, his only SBs came when he wasn't picking players.

From 1997-2000 w/ him in charge of everything we made one postseason, he gets crdit b/c we made it in '01 and '02 after he left? and yes we didn't have a total roster overhaul in 2001(still had alot of pre-Parcells players) but in '02 we did. We had 6 new starters on D.


Yep we backed into the playoffs by winning the games we were supposed to win to get in then we beat up a quality Cincy team on the road and in my opinion the best team in the AFC on the road a week later but it was all luck.

12 years running the show, ONE postseason win. You can use the luck excuse all you want but you would think in 12 years he'd find some luck.

I guess that’s why we all have an opinion the man can evaluate talent. I guess his understudies are not a point in this case either, right? I mean the Pats do not follow the same blueprint as Bill right and they never win either.

Cincy was overrated all season and if you ask me Pitt and the Ravens are a better team top to bottom then Cincy. I knew going into the Jets game it was a sealed deal for the Jets you could have easily drew the Pats or Ravens and with those teams it would have been a coin toss to win.

You played Indy to get in without Manning who oh by the way was winning when he was pulled and then the vaulted Jets passing defense proceeded to collapse when Manning played the whole game. The score should have been 44-17 at the gun.

I am not discrediting what the Jets did all season and to my surprise I though Sanchez would loose the game for the Jets and he did not and that is huge for his development going forward. The Jets played BP style football, built from the trenches and made their opponents become one dimensional by taking away the pass. When you know they are going to run it makes it so much easier to defend against it.

3rdandinches
01-28-2010, 09:41 AM
Any thread on BP or JT and nyjunc is salivating at the mouth to jump down anyones throat who think their good at their job!!!

BP has only evaluated the bad players and everyone else has picked the good ones, and JT has never played well in an important game blah blah blah.

But the fact is BP changes every team from bad to good in a short time and JT will be a HOF when his career is done. BP has two Superbowl wins and has taken two different teams to the Superbowl. So what is so difficult to understand here, nyjunc is a hater and provides only his opinion on what has gone on behind closed doors and the rest of us give factual information on results from BP.

Same old crap, different thread. Who cares really? BP is with us and we have witnessed one of the all time great single season turnarounds, the depth on our team is excellent in key areas and we are only going into our third draft with BP's hand selected crew.

I'm as excited as ever to be a Dolphin fan because of BP and what he and his staff are doing. Nyjunc can make believe all the negative bs he wants the fact remains he is a closet Dolphin fan that spends more time chatting here then with the brain childs over at Greenpooplickingland.com or whatever it's called!

rev kev
01-28-2010, 10:45 AM
Any thread on BP or JT and nyjunc is salivating at the mouth to jump down anyones throat who think their good at their job!!!

BP has only evaluated the bad players and everyone else has picked the good ones, and JT has never played well in an important game blah blah blah.

But the fact is BP changes every team from bad to good in a short time and JT will be a HOF when his career is done. BP has two Superbowl wins and has taken two different teams to the Superbowl. So what is so difficult to understand here, nyjunc is a hater and provides only his opinion on what has gone on behind closed doors and the rest of us give factual information on results from BP.

Same old crap, different thread. Who cares really? BP is with us and we have witnessed one of the all time great single season turnarounds, the depth on our team is excellent in key areas and we are only going into our third draft with BP's hand selected crew.

I'm as excited as ever to be a Dolphin fan because of BP and what he and his staff are doing. Nyjunc can make believe all the negative bs he wants the fact remains he is a closet Dolphin fan that spends more time chatting here then with the brain childs over at Greenpooplickingland.com or whatever it's called!

Actually you were close 3rd... greenpooplickingyourhandland.com

nyjunc
01-28-2010, 10:52 AM
I guess that’s why we all have an opinion the man can evaluate talent. I guess his understudies are not a point in this case either, right? I mean the Pats do not follow the same blueprint as Bill right and they never win either.

Cincy was overrated all season and if you ask me Pitt and the Ravens are a better team top to bottom then Cincy. I knew going into the Jets game it was a sealed deal for the Jets you could have easily drew the Pats or Ravens and with those teams it would have been a coin toss to win.

You played Indy to get in without Manning who oh by the way was winning when he was pulled and then the vaulted Jets passing defense proceeded to collapse when Manning played the whole game. The score should have been 44-17 at the gun.

I am not discrediting what the Jets did all season and to my surprise I though Sanchez would loose the game for the Jets and he did not and that is huge for his development going forward. The Jets played BP style football, built from the trenches and made their opponents become one dimensional by taking away the pass. When you know they are going to run it makes it so much easier to defend against it.

They swept both Vincy and Baltimore. I agree I would much rather have faced Cincy than the other 2 but Cincy took care of business while the other 2 didn't.

Our D wore out, we had some injuries we couldn't overcome and Peyton played like he rarely does in January. The better team won, that doesn't take anything away from our playoff run.


Any thread on BP or JT and nyjunc is salivating at the mouth to jump down anyones throat who think their good at their job!!!

BP has only evaluated the bad players and everyone else has picked the good ones, and JT has never played well in an important game blah blah blah.

But the fact is BP changes every team from bad to good in a short time and JT will be a HOF when his career is done. BP has two Superbowl wins and has taken two different teams to the Superbowl. So what is so difficult to understand here, nyjunc is a hater and provides only his opinion on what has gone on behind closed doors and the rest of us give factual information on results from BP.

Same old crap, different thread. Who cares really? BP is with us and we have witnessed one of the all time great single season turnarounds, the depth on our team is excellent in key areas and we are only going into our third draft with BP's hand selected crew.

I'm as excited as ever to be a Dolphin fan because of BP and what he and his staff are doing. Nyjunc can make believe all the negative bs he wants the fact remains he is a closet Dolphin fan that spends more time chatting here then with the brain childs over at Greenpooplickingland.com or whatever it's called!

I salivate to get the truth out. Sorry if it offends you.


Stay w/ your head buried in the sand and believe BP is a great evaluator of talent, don't let small facts like ONE postseason win in 12 years or the winning his 2 SBs when george Young picked the players influence you at all.

As far as JT, don't let little facts like being a leader of a Defense that was historically bad in big games and the little fact that he has ZERO career postseason sacks or that when he walked out on Miami to dance on TV your team won 11 games then when he came back you won 7.

but what do I know?

miamiron
01-28-2010, 11:33 AM
You don't need to have 1st rd picks to have good drafts. He inheirted the #1 pick overall in the draft.


Farrior is a good player but we traded down from the #1 overall pick. Farrior had one good year for us in 5 years then became really good in Pitt but he was never worth orlando Pace.

We lucked into ferguson, he failed a drug test and dropped to the 7th or we never get him.

Randy thomas was really good.

Leon ws good before the injuries.

Fabini was a solid tackle.

But look at the rest of his drafts:

1997:

1997 1 1 8 8 James Farrior LB Virginia
2 2 1 31 Rick Terry DT North Carolina
3 3 28 88 Dedric Ward WR Northern Iowa
4 4 6 102 Terry Day DE Mississippi State
5 4 8 104 Leon Johnson RB North Carolina
6 5 1 131 Lamont Burns G East Carolina
7 5 15 145 Raymond Austin DB Tennessee
8 6 1 164 Tim Scharf LB Northwestern
9 6 28 191 Chuck Clements QB Houston
10 7 1 202 Steve Rosga DB Colorado
11 7 28 229 Jason Ferguson DT Georgia

Rick terry was our 2nd rd pick and only played 1 year for us and 3 years in the NFL

Terry day played 1 year in the NFL

Lamont Burns 1 year in the NFL

Raymond Auston, 1 year for us, 3 years in the NFL

Tim Scharf never played a down in the NFL

Chuck Clements was w/ us for one year

Steve Rosga never played a down in the NFL

Of our 11 draft picks7 of them were out of the NFL w/in 3 years.


1998:

1998 1 2 26 56 Dorian Boose DT Washington State
2 3 6 67 Scott Frost DB Nebraska
3 3 26 87 Kevin Williams DB Oklahoma State
4 4 19 111 Jason Fabini T Cincinnati
5 5 11 134 Casey Dailey LB Northwestern
6 5 18 141 Doug Karczewski T Virginia
7 5 23 146 Blake Spence TE Oregon
8 5 26 149 Eric Bateman T Brigham Young
9 6 10 163 Eric Ogbogu DT Maryland
10 6 21 174 Chris Brazzell WR Angelo State
11 6 30 183 Dustin Johnson RB Brigham Young
12 7 6 195 Lawrence Hart TE Southern

Boose was our 1st pick of thhat draft(rd 2), never started a game for us. Played 4 years in the NFL

Frost started 1 game for us in 3 years

Kevin williams played 4 years in the NFL

Casey dailey played 1 year

Doug Karczewski never played a down

Blake Spence had 4 recs in 3 years in the NFL

Eric Bateman never played a down

Ogbogu started 4 games(w/ dallas0 in his 7 yr career)

Chris Brazzell never played a down for us, lasted 2 years in the NFL

Dustin Johnson never played a down for us, played 1 year in the NFL

Same for lawrence Hart


12 picks in 1998 and 9 of the picks were out of the league w/in 4 years.


1999:

1999 1 2 26 57 Randy Thomas G Mississippi State
2 3 29 90 David Loverne G San Jose State
3 4 28 123 Jason Wiltz DT Nebraska
4 5 29 162 Jermaine Jones DB Northwestern State (LA)
5 6 14 183 Marc Megna LB Richmond
6 6 28 197 J.P. Machado G Illinois
7 7 17 223 Ryan Young T Kansas State
8 7 29 235 J.J. Syvrud DE Jamestown


Loverne played 2 years for us, never started a game.

Wiltz started 2 games in his 2 year NFL career

Jones played 1 year for us and 2 in the NFL

Megna never played a down for us, his NFL career lasted one season.

Syvrud lasted one year in the NFL

We had 8 picks, 5 of them were out of the league w/in 2 years.



as for Dallas, they had a much better cpach than Wade and he couldn't win a playoff game- his name was Bill parcells.


SD in the last 3 postseasons has been in the div rd twice and in the title game once. That's a little different than Dallas. They have 3 postseason wins the last 3 years compared to one for Dallas since 1997.

Wow,
those were very bad drafts...comparable to the crap we went through a few years back

3rdandinches
01-28-2010, 03:29 PM
I salivate to get the truth out. Sorry if it offends you.


Stay w/ your head buried in the sand and believe BP is a great evaluator of talent, don't let small facts like ONE postseason win in 12 years or the winning his 2 SBs when george Young picked the players influence you at all.

As far as JT, don't let little facts like being a leader of a Defense that was historically bad in big games and the little fact that he has ZERO career postseason sacks or that when he walked out on Miami to dance on TV your team won 11 games then when he came back you won 7.

but what do I know?

You don't offend me by any means, you entertain me with your constant bs and twisting of any reasonable facts you can manipulate. You constantly puke out opinions and state them as facts and then when confronted your only response is "you can't handle the truth".

The fact is JT is 11th all time in sacks, which is kind of an important stat for his position and add 8 interceptions with 3 td's. I won't let my eyes fool me with all the great games I've watch JT play because some JEST fan is telling me to. Let alone telling everyone on a Dolphins board how the guy turning around our franchise isn't that good at what he does even though he's done it multiple times before.

So sad you have such a hatred towards people that has so much success, did either one turn you down for a autograph when you sercretly went to Dolphin games? Lose a girlfriend to one? Size, is that it, you peeked at a urinal and even though Mommy says it doesn't matter it still hurts? It's hard to come up with something logical so it must be one of the others.

nyjunc
01-28-2010, 03:38 PM
You don't offend me by any means, you entertain me with your constant bs and twisting of any reasonable facts you can manipulate. You constantly puke out opinions and state them as facts and then when confronted your only response is "you can't handle the truth".

The fact is JT is 11th all time in sacks, which is kind of an important stat for his position and add 8 interceptions with 3 td's. I won't let my eyes fool me with all the great games I've watch JT play because some JEST fan is telling me to. Let alone telling everyone on a Dolphins board how the guy turning around our franchise isn't that good at what he does even though he's done it multiple times before.

So sad you have such a hatred towards people that has so much success, did either one turn you down for a autograph when you sercretly went to Dolphin games? Lose a girlfriend to one? Size, is that it, you peeked at a urinal and even though Mommy says it doesn't matter it still hurts? It's hard to come up with something logical so it must be one of the others.

Actually I constantly offer my opinionss then back them up w/ facts then folks like you go on personal attacks b/c you can't attack the argument.

That's great that JT is 11th all time in sacks, you realize that they didn't start keeping the sack stat until the early 80s, right? So that 11th would likely be alot lower and while his totals are nice he has only had 6 double digit sack seasons and only ONE w/ more than 15. He has played 13 years and has only been top 10 in sacks just 5 times while leading only once. he's beena really good pass rusher but that's not good enough for you guys. You need to pretend like he was an all-time great and he wasn't. he never stepped up in big spots and led a D that always choked(like him) in the big spot.

I don't hate Jason, I don't know him. I hate him on the field but that is something totally different. I hate every player to wear an opposing unifrom on the field but off the field I don't know these guys so I have no hatred.

You know how I know I win these arguments? Just read your last paragraph. You have nothing to combat the argument w/ and you start hurling 3rd grade insults.

3rdandinches
01-28-2010, 04:01 PM
Actually I constanly offer my opniions then back them up w/ facts then folks like you go on personal attacks b/c you can't attack the argument.

That's great that JT is 11th all time in sacks, you realize that they didn't start keeping the sack stat until the early 80s, right? So that 11th would likely be alot lower and while his totals are nice he has only had 6 double digit sack seasons and only ONE w/ more than 15. He has played 13 years and has only been top 10 in sacks just 5 times while leading only once. he's beena really good pass rusher but that's not good enough for you guys. You need to pretend like he was an all-time great and he wasn't. he never stepped up in big spots and led a D that always choked(like him) in the big spot.

I don't hate Jason, I don't know him. I hate him on the field but that is something totally different. I hate every player to wear an opposing unifrom on the field but off the field I don't know these guys so I have no hatred.

You know how I know I win these arguments? Just read your last paragraph. You have nothing to combat the argument w/ and you start hurling 3rd grade insults.

Actually no insults at all, they we're legit questions trying to come up with a reason your so angry. I apoligize if you we're offended by a question.

Your right what was I thinking!!! He only had double digit sacks in 6 years, 111 in this decade, more then any other player including 22 more then Strahan. 6 time probowler, league defensive MVP, 8 picks, 37 forced fumbles, ya your right we over value him but so does the rest of the league and they don't know anything either!



"Jason Taylor is a Hall of Famer," said Hall of Famer Warren Moon (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/People/Athletes/NFL/Warren+Moon).



"You'll be in the Hall of Fame someday," Belichick told Taylor.



What makes Taylor the decade's best defensive end? Sapp, USA TODAY's All-Decade defensive tackle, said it's Taylor's consistent impact as a complete defender.
"Jason Taylor is great," the NFL Network analyst said. "He's a monster. He rushes both sides and has that long arm move. He's just so consistent."


These guys also don't no what their talking about, right?

All Decade team USA Today, All Decade Team ESPN, All Decade Team SI...just some more people not knowing what their talking about and obviousily overrating JT.

nyjunc
01-28-2010, 04:41 PM
Actually no insults at all, they we're legit questions trying to come up with a reason your so angry. I apoligize if you we're offended by a question.

Your right what was I thinking!!! He only had double digit sacks in 6 years, 111 in this decade, more then any other player including 22 more then Strahan. 6 time probowler, league defensive MVP, 8 picks, 37 forced fumbles, ya your right we over value him but so does the rest of the league and they don't know anything either!







These guys also don't no what their talking about, right?

All Decade team USA Today, All Decade Team ESPN, All Decade Team SI...just some more people not knowing what their talking about and obviousily overrating JT.


22 more than Strahan- pretty impressive considering he played 42 more games than Strahan.

I don't care what Warren Moon has to say.

Belichick is buttering up an opponent.

You can find nice quotes about any player. The facts are much better pass rushers are not in the Hall so how will jason pass those guys and make the Hall? Strahan is far from a lock and he was a MUCH better pass rusher than Taylor.

Those lists are based on stats. They don't take into account his poor play in big games.

XxfeensterxX
01-28-2010, 04:50 PM
Actually no insults at all, they we're legit questions trying to come up with a reason your so angry. I apoligize if you we're offended by a question.

Your right what was I thinking!!! He only had double digit sacks in 6 years, 111 in this decade, more then any other player including 22 more then Strahan. 6 time probowler, league defensive MVP, 8 picks, 37 forced fumbles, ya your right we over value him but so does the rest of the league and they don't know anything either!

These guys also don't no what their talking about, right?

All Decade team USA Today, All Decade Team ESPN, All Decade Team SI...just some more people not knowing what their talking about and obviousily overrating JT.


No of course they dont, but NYjunk (the Greatest jest nerd EVER) knows everything and anything.:crazy:

And I can speak for many people on here when I say, put a sock in it and go try to educate the pukegreen forum instead of ours.

nyjunc
01-28-2010, 05:37 PM
No of course they dont, but NYjunk (the Greatest jest nerd EVER) knows everything and anything.:crazy:

And I can speak for many people on here when I say, put a sock in it and go try to educate the pukegreen forum instead of ours.

I don't think you can speak for many others actually. I have never seen any of your posts but it seems like instead of hurling inuslts it would be wise to pay attention.

HybridPHIN 23
01-30-2010, 08:55 PM
get a life already

this is his life i think...... i can't check out dolphin news without without interruptions of this guy trying to correct everybody's opinions. I don't agree with alot of stuff thats posted but this one takes it all personal ! Talk about annoying ! But hey he's our jet fan i guess, for some reason. It's alot easier when you can't see his posts... but i still have to deal with everyone complaining about him... ugh.

flynryan15
01-31-2010, 12:46 AM
22 more than Strahan- pretty impressive considering he played 42 more games than Strahan.

I don't care what Warren Moon has to say.

Belichick is buttering up an opponent.

You can find nice quotes about any player. The facts are much better pass rushers are not in the Hall so how will jason pass those guys and make the Hall? Strahan is far from a lock and he was a MUCH better pass rusher than Taylor.

Those lists are based on stats. They don't take into account his poor play in big games.

According to pro-football-reference.com Jason Taylor has played 199 games, Strahan has played 216. By my math he has played 17 less games then Strahan, not 42 more. Odd Strahan only has 6 seasons of double digit sacks also. If you are going to claim you use facts let's get them right! If you want to get real technical Strahan has 205 starts to Taylor's 177.

normaniii
01-31-2010, 11:37 PM
Actually I constantly offer my opinionss then back them up w/ facts then folks like you go on personal attacks b/c you can't attack the argument.

That's great that JT is 11th all time in sacks, you realize that they didn't start keeping the sack stat until the early 80s, right? So that 11th would likely be alot lower and while his totals are nice he has only had 6 double digit sack seasons and only ONE w/ more than 15. He has played 13 years and has only been top 10 in sacks just 5 times while leading only once. he's beena really good pass rusher but that's not good enough for you guys. You need to pretend like he was an all-time great and he wasn't. he never stepped up in big spots and led a D that always choked(like him) in the big spot.

I don't hate Jason, I don't know him. I hate him on the field but that is something totally different. I hate every player to wear an opposing unifrom on the field but off the field I don't know these guys so I have no hatred.

You know how I know I win these arguments? Just read your last paragraph. You have nothing to combat the argument w/ and you start hurling 3rd grade insults.

JT just got voted to all decade team.......with other DE such as Freeney, Peppers and Strahan.

You back up everything with stats....and I do agree....its good argument, but when a player gets voted to all decade team, surely you have got to then stand up and say ........ok im sitting down

normaniii
01-31-2010, 11:40 PM
Those lists are based on stats. They don't take into account his poor play in big games.[/quote]

This from the guy who said he backs up his arguments with stats!!!

nyjunc
02-01-2010, 09:29 AM
JT just got voted to all decade team.......with other DE such as Freeney, Peppers and Strahan.

You back up everything with stats....and I do agree....its good argument, but when a player gets voted to all decade team, surely you have got to then stand up and say ........ok im sitting down

What does that mean? Those awards are based on stats. B/c someone makes an all-decade team doesn't mean they are going to the HOF. Kevin Mawae made the lost to and was a much better C than jason a DE and I'm not sure Kevin will make the Hall.


Those lists are based on stats. They don't take into account his poor play in big games.

This from the guy who said he backs up his arguments with stats!!![/QUOTE]

Yep stats like ZERO career playoff sacks and his disappearance in big games late in seasons.


According to pro-football-reference.com Jason Taylor has played 199 games, Strahan has played 216. By my math he has played 17 less games then Strahan, not 42 more. Odd Strahan only has 6 seasons of double digit sacks also. If you are going to claim you use facts let's get them right! If you want to get real technical Strahan has 205 starts to Taylor's 177.

We were discussing this decade: 2000-2009

normaniii
02-01-2010, 03:46 PM
How can you come on a FIN Forum and argue with FIN fans who have an in depth knowledge of Jason Taylor as a Dolphins player quoting certain stats as an argument on why he should not be considered a Great. Then to counteract the argument you then disregard all other stats produced and then qoute purely playoff stats. The fact is, you have less knowledge of JT as a player but are still arrogant enough to think you know better!

"The only statistics you can trust are those you falsified yourself"
Winston Churchill

nyjunc
02-01-2010, 03:59 PM
How can you come on a FIN Forum and argue with FIN fans who have an in depth knowledge of Jason Taylor as a Dolphins player quoting certain stats as an argument on why he should not be considered a Great. Then to counteract the argument you then disregard all other stats produced and then qoute purely playoff stats. The fact is, you have less knowledge of JT as a player but are still arrogant enough to think you know better!

"The only statistics you can trust are those you falsified yourself"
Winston Churchill

Big time players step up when their teams need them most. jason was the poster boy for a defense that always got killed in big spots and it did so largely b/c their supposed big time players, like jason, couldn't play under pressure.