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FinAtic8480
01-27-2010, 04:01 PM
Along those lines, I found it interesting Tuesday when Miami Dolphins/South team coach Tony Sparano took a few players aside for quick tutorials. One of those was South Florida free safety Nate Allen. Another was University of Miami tight end Jimmy Graham, who -- oh, by the way -- has signed on with Tennessee-based agent Jimmy Sexton (who also happens to represent Sparano and a guy by the name of Bill Parcells).
At one point, Sparano, a former tight ends coach, took Graham out of a drill and basically led him by the hand into the right flat. Graham nodded, Sparano patted him on the butt and it was back to work.
"We were just talking about fundamanetals on a particular route," Sparano said when I asked him about it later. "I was just talking about a particular route that he was running and some of the techniques he might want to use."


Earlier this week, Sparano was highly complimentary of Graham and UM players in general. Linebacker Darryl Sharpton is also here; he's a Drew Rosenhaus client.


"I like what I've seen out of [Graham]," Sparano said. "He’s a good prospect without a doubt. Miami does a great job. Randy [Shannon] does a great job with his players. They’re very well coached. This will be a good experience for him this week."



Remember, when Parcells and GM Jeff Ireland recently attended a UM practice leading up to their bowl game, they reportedly watched Graham very intently. Graham's upside remains tremendous because the former basketball player came to the sport so late.


If Anthony Fasano moves on in March, most likely as a restricted free agent, the Dolphins might want to take a mid-round run at Graham. Even if Fasano stays, Graham could be on the Dolphins' radar. It wasn't like Joey Haynos set the world on fire last season.


Graham, by the way, measured at 6 feet 6, 259 pounds with 34 3/4-inch arm length and hands that measured 10 5/8 in diameter. Those hands are the biggest among the six tight ends here this week.


By comparison, Mike Hoomanawanui came in at 10 1/4 inches. Joe W's buddy Ed Dickson (Oregon) was at 9 3/4. Wisconsin's Garrett Graham was at 9 3/8, while Alabama's Colin Peek (9 5/8) and USC's Anthony McCoy (9 3/4) were in the same range.

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2010/01/miami-dolphins-jimmy-graham-and-the-senior-bowl.html

I like what I have seen from Graham, he looks extremely coachable. He has excellent size and hands and from what I remember watching UM ball last year whenever they needed a score or a big play his number was called up and graham responded.

The The Trifecta has been scouting him for a while now and I think Graham is defitnetly on their radar.

Mr_Freezetag
01-27-2010, 04:08 PM
Thanks for this good read.

I would be pumped if they brought this kid in at the right time. Idk what he is projected at but as long as they don't jump on him too soon I would be happy.

Chubby
01-27-2010, 04:10 PM
I dont know if he will make it out of the 3rd or 4th round by the time things are all said in done.
Chubbs

#1dolphinsfan
01-27-2010, 04:17 PM
I really hope to see Ed dickson or Jimmy Graham in a phins uniform next season

Pinkboy
01-27-2010, 04:17 PM
Sparano needs to learn how to not tip his hand.

FinAtic8480
01-27-2010, 04:18 PM
Well, we defitnetly have a need for TE and he is turning heads. Like I said the Trifecta have been scouting him for a while.

JT-forpresident
01-27-2010, 04:18 PM
Graham with our 3rd rounder ? ... I like

j-off-her-doll
01-27-2010, 04:20 PM
4th - depending on who else is on the board.

Troysif
01-27-2010, 04:26 PM
Graham with our 3rd rounder ? ... I like
Yes that does sound good to me.

FinAtic8480
01-27-2010, 04:47 PM
Im watching the Senior Bowl right now and Graham is doing a nice job blocking, recieving praise from Mayock especially since he is an ex B-Ball player. He also made an amazing catch in the end-zone on pass from Tebow.

Looking good, still needs work in routes.

FinAtic8480
01-27-2010, 04:51 PM
Converted BB player Jimmy Graham, now a 6-7 TE, looking good in pass pro drills at the Sr. Bowl. About time #Dolphins (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23Dolphins) drafted a Cane!

http://twitter.com/ArmandoSalguero

Im not the only one who thinks Graham is having a good pass protection drill.

RealDriscoll
01-27-2010, 05:28 PM
Graham is ours in Round 4

Pinkboy
01-27-2010, 05:32 PM
Graham is showing how raw he is.

Today he made a nice long catch when he was covered. But then in the following two plays he looked very weak.

First he was covered like a blanket by a DE when he was up against George Selvie.

And then in the next play he gave up on a route and stopped running when he was covered like a blanket again. Coaches were bewildered that he stopped running in the middle of his route when Graham discovered how well covered he was.

Graham was the only offensive player today to stop his route and give up on a play early the way he did. Not good. That's a big no-no

FinAtic8480
01-27-2010, 05:44 PM
He did look poor running routes, but the kid has looked good. He only has one year of playing college ball, defitnetly a project. I think some of you are rating him to high. I think he is more 5th-6th round type of guy.

BTW Grey Boy the snap where he was covered by DE the QB over threw him by live five yards. No trying to cut him slack after all I do think his routes need work, but not as bad as you make it seem.

vafins
01-27-2010, 05:46 PM
yeah that catch he had from tebow was nice and the few one on one blocking drills i saw of him he looked good throw up the ball in the redzone and he should be able to go get it

BrowardPhin
01-28-2010, 10:04 AM
Please not within the first 3. Im ok with a 4th - 7th

JCane
01-28-2010, 10:25 AM
Jimmy Graham fool!! 'Canes *****!!

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 10:45 AM
what i see is a guys who's raw as a route runner and doesn't like or better yet maybe not used to contact down the field from a man in coverage...

lots of upside though...definitely has the tools...somebody imo to consider with pick #108...

showing better than i thought as a blocker also...

Kdawg954
01-28-2010, 11:34 AM
He obviously is raw as hell, so was Antonio Gates . . . but when look at his physical stature . . . he immediately would have an impact as a big target for any young QB. You get him to get better with his route running and pass pro, you are talking about a top TE in a few years. Obviously there are much more polished college TE's . . . but u can't teach his size/speed combo.

greasyObnoxious
01-28-2010, 11:37 AM
He obviously is raw as hell, so was Antonio Gates . . . but when look at his physical stature . . . he immediately would have an impact as a big target for any young QB. You get him to get better with his route running and pass pro, you are talking about a top TE in a few years. Obviously there are much more polished college TE's . . . but u can't teach his size/speed combo.

you can't teach his smarts either

Prime Time Ron
01-28-2010, 12:19 PM
everyone on this board will like Graham because he played at the "U". he hasn't proven anything to me

Prime Time Ron
01-28-2010, 12:20 PM
he has good size but he can't catch well. 6th rounder at best.

RealDriscoll
01-28-2010, 12:22 PM
I love the comparison between Antonio Gates and Jimmy Graham. Graham is abviously raw as noted before but the guy has the size and blocking ability to be succesful. Without question he was a red-zone threat for the Hurricanes as he snagged 5 TD's in the red-zone this season. I see this guy as a Round 3-4 prospect

RealDriscoll
01-28-2010, 12:23 PM
Ron,

If Jimmy Graham is around in Round 6 we BETTER pull the trigger.

CW_McGraw
01-28-2010, 12:55 PM
everyone on this board will like Graham because he played at the "U". he hasn't proven anything to me

He went to the U. That alone is reason enough for any team to take a chance on him. That school is basically the 33rd NFL team.

greasyObnoxious
01-28-2010, 12:57 PM
He went to the U. That alone is reason enough for any team to take a chance on him. That school is basically the 33rd NFL team.

i'd say that's USC

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 01:40 PM
Barring some disastrous injury or skeletons in the closet we don't know about, if Jimmy Graham makes it to the 6th round I'll eat my shoe.

greasyObnoxious
01-28-2010, 01:55 PM
Barring some disastrous injury or skeletons in the closet we don't know about, if Jimmy Graham makes it to the 6th round I'll eat my shoe.

wouldn't that be a sight to behold

SR 7
01-28-2010, 02:54 PM
After the combine he'll go anywhere from round 2-4. Believe that. And someone said early Graham round 2 as an ILb...lol he's a bonafide stud SOLB waiting yo happen and guaranteed top 20 after combine.

FinAtic8480
01-28-2010, 03:21 PM
Charles Davis said on Path to Draft he loves Jimmy Graham said he has great hands and is willing to stick his nose in there and block.

CK some opinions on our boy Graham would be appreciated if you can, thank you

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 03:27 PM
you guys are nuts if you'd burn a 2nd round pick on a raw developmental te...

you really are

i don't care what he does at the combine...i wouldn't have him on my list before pick #108...

too much cane hype around here...imo... but i have moved him up a round watching the senior bowl practices and seeing his upside

FinAtic8480
01-28-2010, 03:41 PM
A second for Graham is ludacris, the kid has alot of talent but he is very Raw. While scouts have been impressed by him, alot where amazed he was even incited because some players with better numbers at the position did not.

His route running needs coaching and as much as I like what I have seen he is a project.

SR 7
01-28-2010, 04:03 PM
You guys are takign this too personally, no one said 2-4 meaning MIAMI... I said 2-4 b/c there are at least just over a dozen teams taht generally reach on smoene they like or see potential in (AHEM PAT EFFIN WHITE FOR EXAMPLE). Hester went 2nd round...he entered the draft without having a single position set, was he a CB? a return guy? a WR? WTF was he was the quesiton but still got drafted...not saying he is a STUD and quality 2nd rounder just saying TEAMS REACH on RAW POTENTIAL.

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 04:06 PM
i can see one of the already established contender teams using a pick maybe late 3rd round on graham...they can afford to...

but i can't see a team with as many needs as we have using a high top 3 round pick on graham...

we'll see

greasyObnoxious
01-28-2010, 04:06 PM
A second for Graham is ludacris, the kid has alot of talent but he is very Raw. While scouts have been impressed by him, alot where amazed he was even incited because some players with better numbers at the position did not.

His route running needs coaching and as much as I like what I have seen he is a project.

Richard Quinn is strictly a blocking TE, but the Broncos spent a 2nd rounder on him. they even traded back into the 2nd to do so, iirc.

Jimmy Graham has a lot more potential than Richard Quinn.

SR 7
01-28-2010, 04:08 PM
Richard Quinn is strictly a blocking TE, but the Broncos spent a 2nd rounder on him. they even traded back into the 2nd to do so, iirc.

Jimmy Graham has a lot more potential than Richard Quinn.

Exactly, Graham has potentail thats off the charts right now...hes probably Antonio 2.0 and the only reason why Antonio went so late was b/c at the time no one had a transition like him...since he has he set a bar for other players iwht potential to get a chance to be a top 80-90 pick.

I believe he will go round 2 -3 round 4 is pushing it.

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 04:14 PM
Richard Quinn is strictly a blocking TE, but the Broncos spent a 2nd rounder on him. they even traded back into the 2nd to do so, iirc.

Jimmy Graham has a lot more potential than Richard Quinn.

are you telling me richard quinn was good value in the 2nd round??? i like quinn but that imo was way too high

and richard quinn was a monster in line blocker who displayed better hands and catching ability at the combine than i think many people ever envisioned...

but not worth a 2nd round pick...

greasyObnoxious
01-28-2010, 04:17 PM
are you telling me richard quinn was good value in the 2nd round??? i like quinn but that imo was way too high

and richard quinn was a monster in line blocker who displayed better hands and catching ability at the combine than i think many people ever envisioned...

but not worth a 2nd round pick...

that's up for debate. to me, Quinn wasn't good value. not at all. blocking TEs can be found as UDFA or on the waiver wire.

anyway, all i'm saying is, if you really like the whole package of Jimmy Graham, like a lot of people do, you might be forced to use a 2nd rounder on him.

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 04:20 PM
that's up for debate. to me, Quinn wasn't good value. not at all. blocking TEs can be found as UDFA or on the waiver wire.

anyway, all i'm saying is, if you really like the whole package of Jimmy Graham, like a lot of people do, you might be forced to use a 2nd rounder on him.

i had quinn as a 5th round value if i remember correctly but this draft imo is much deeper/better than last years and i see more nfl ready to contribute talent being available than using a high pick on a developmental te in graham...but like you said that's probably also up for debate...

not to me though...

greasyObnoxious
01-28-2010, 04:28 PM
i had quinn as a 5th round value if i remember correctly but this draft imo is much deeper/better than last years and i see more nfl ready to contribute talent being available than using a high pick on a developmental te in graham...but like you said that's probably also up for debate...

not to me though...

don't get me wrong. i wouldn't spend a 2nd on Jimmy Graham either. especially not picking this high in each round. i would, however, use our 3rd rounder on him, if there isn't anyone else who blows me away at that spot.

utahphinsfan
01-29-2010, 12:31 AM
http://twitter.com/ArmandoSalguero

Im not the only one who thinks Graham is having a good pass protection drill.

Yatil Green. Vernon Carey.

There are few others if memory serves & so far ONLY Vernon has worked out

Pinkboy
01-29-2010, 04:58 AM
It's interesting that while at the University of Miami they had Graham listed at 6 foot 8.

When he goes to Mobile for the Senior Bowl this week he was officially measured at 6'6" in front of over a hundred witnesses.

So what's going on ? Cam Thomas was measured at 6'3" for the senior bowl but he says he is 6'4" and couldn't believe it showed up as 6'3". Other people say he is a shade taller than 6'4 and the 6'3" measurement was bogus.

How can so many people be so wrong about something so elementary ?

greasyObnoxious
01-29-2010, 06:33 AM
It's interesting that while at the University of Miami they had Graham listed at 6 foot 8.

When he goes to Mobile for the Senior Bowl this week he was officially measured at 6'6" in front of over a hundred witnesses.

So what's going on ? Cam Thomas was measured at 6'3" for the senior bowl but he says he is 6'4" and couldn't believe it showed up as 6'3". Other people say he is a shade taller than 6'4 and the 6'3" measurement was bogus.

How can so many people be so wrong about something so elementary ?

that's not uncommon. Crabtree was listed as 6'3'' at Texas Tech and measured in at 6'1'' at the Combine. every year, prospect "shrink" when they're measured by the NFL guys.

HurriPhin
01-29-2010, 06:48 AM
Keep Jimmy at home here in Miami. We'll regret it later if we don't. :up:

justdev7
01-29-2010, 02:40 PM
Does anyone else remember that we already have a 6'7" TE that can't separate or block? We don't need another project, we need a player that's ready to contribute. Gresham, Hernandez, Dickson, or Gronkowski

ckparrothead
01-29-2010, 03:27 PM
Arguing about a 2nd round pick right NOW is premature. We've still got three months until the draft. That's a quarter of a year! This is a LONG process and statements that are labeled "absurd" right now, are labeled by the same folk "obvious" a quarter of a year from now.

A few years back, back in January it was "absurd" to think that CB Jimmy Williams would make it out of the top 10. I'm not joking. A quarter of a year later, if you said you don't think Jimmy Williams will go in the upper or middle of the first round, you'd be called "captain obvious" and the like. Just an example.

This is what I've got to say about Jimmy Graham.

He's about 6 feet, 6.5 inches tall. He's 259 pounds. He's got 35 inch arms. He's got 11 inch hands.

Wow, wow, wow and wow. You don't get better than that. You don't. 35 inch arms and 11 inch hands? Are you kidding me? Over 6'6" and 260 pounds?

Feel me yet? Let's go on.

He runs like a gazelle, has a combination of fluidity and effort in his running that speaks of direction change. This is one issue I have with another tall player, Jermaine Gresham, who has what looks too often to me the look of laziness in his running style. I've been told by someone who has close connections with him that his athleticism is the real deal, and that he will run in the low 4.7's at the Combine, if not lower. And that he'll also post a high vertical.

Let's recap. Over 6'6". About 260 lbs. Left tackle arm length. 11 inch hands. Runs the 40 in 4.70 seconds, probably about a 36-37 inch vertical.

From here on let's highlight several other things.

1. Hands. Not consistent hands, you wouldn't expect that so soon, but shows great potential because he regularly makes difficult catches.

2. Smart. Listen to him do a radio interview. He's smart as a whip. They joke that he could go into radio. It's one of those funny-because-it's-true jokes.

3. Physical. Go watch him drive block the 6'6" and 286 pound DE J.J. Watt, who was having a monster game against the Canes, all the way out to the sideline on a stretch play, and then finish the play by knocking Watt to the ground. Can I remind you, over 6'6", 260 lbs, 35 inch arms, 11 inch hands, runs like a gazelle, can leap over a 6th grader, catches the ball with basketball grace? Now you're adding driving talented 286 pounders to the sideline and knockdown blocks to his repertoire?

4. Athlete. He wasn't just some bench warmer as a basketball player. He's not a 6 minute guy on the court that decided to give football a go all of a sudden. He was one of the best shot blockers in UM school history.

5. Learning curve. Probably tied into how smart he is, look at the ridiculous pace he's set for himself. A year ago he hadn't even touched a football since being a sometime player in high school. At the beginning of the year it was obvious he was a role player, talented though he was, and he was more of a circus sideshow as Awsi put it, than a football player. Dedric Epps was absolutely the better Tight End and it wasn't close. Mid-year, Graham was more than that. He was running different routes, catching different passes. Suddenly Dedric Epps is sweating. End of the year? No question whatsoever, Graham was the better overall football player. Not quite as polished, but more effective, more dangerous, more productive, in EVERY way (not just as a pass catcher). That is a meteoric rise, and it was over the course of a third of a year. That's it! Just four or five months. Now ask yourself...where will he be in another 18 months? Where does this learning curve stop?

We've got a lot of time between now and then. I hear he's doing well at the senior bowl practices. That's pretty huge. Can't wait to see the game itself. He's still got a Combine to go to, he's got Pro Day workouts, he's got private workouts...a lot of time to fail, a lot of time to succeed. When you consider how ridiculously far the guy came in only like four or five months, now you're giving him another three months before he even gets drafted, and another four months after that before he needs to play football.

Would it surprise me if he was a 2nd rounder by draft day? Not in the least. And it will probably end up having been worth it.

"Project" just isn't the word. It's just not a very descriptive word that captures what he is as a draft prospect. That's like, for you religious folk out there, describing the Bible as just a "book". It's just not even close to sufficiently descriptive to give you an accurate idea of what we're talking about.

hooshoops
01-29-2010, 04:29 PM
"project" isn't just a term that's being thrown around here when talking jimmy graham...draft guru mike mayock himself used the term the other day when discussing graham and he wasn't exactly praising graham when he said "if i was another productive te in the country i'd be pretty upset that a guy who caught 17 balls this year got a senior bowl invite over me"

he possesses all the measurables no question but i absolutely agree with mayock when he calls graham a developmental project as an all around nfl te...

ckparrothead
01-29-2010, 04:39 PM
Just because Mike Mayock also throws around the term "project" doesn't mean it's not being just "thrown around". It is. And it doesn't describe what Jimmy Graham is. He's more than "potential" because that implies that he wasn't very good by the end of the season. He was a pretty darn good player by the end of the season.

hooshoops
01-29-2010, 04:44 PM
i hear ya...but imo pretty darn good players when they have solid skills players around them should be more productive...

underutilized??? maybe

ckparrothead
01-29-2010, 04:48 PM
i hear ya...but imo pretty darn good players when they have solid skills players around them should be more productive...

underutilized??? maybe

I don't think an offense can go from thinking it's got a utility guy (and nothing more) in Dedric Epps and a specialty guy (and nothing more) in Jimmy Graham, plus a gaggle of big play receivers and backs that also catch the ball, all through camps and practices and through the beginning of the year, to being an offense that funnels the ball into the hands of one of it's TEs constantly...within a single season. You've got to know what you have at the beginning of the year so you can get everyone on the same page and develop your playbook and identity...especially in college. If Jimmy Graham was allowed to play another year down there I think you'd an offense that funnels the ball into his hands more.

Fin Power
01-29-2010, 04:49 PM
Draft Guys (http://draftguys.com/index.php/articles/1/2010_senior_bowl_practice_reports_-_day_3_waldman/) calls Jimmy Graham eye candy.

ckparrothead
01-29-2010, 04:58 PM
I read that. I'm unfamiliar with Waldman as I've only spoken with Cecil Lammey and Sigmund Bloom. I think he makes a lot of great points, though it's a little bit of a simplistic view of things. This week isn't so much about seeing which guys are being coached up by the coaches. It's about seeing which guys put that into practice.

And of course, the finer points of technique are not going to be on display with Jimmy this week...until he's taught and repped them. What I'd like to see though is how quickly he's learning them. That's something you need a fine eye for, and you need to be at the practices every day and watching pretty well.

This is a long process, he's got a lot of room to succeed and a lot of room to fail. That's why I said an argument about 2nd round is premature. That's not where he is right now. I think he can climb there, legitimately. But that hasn't quite happened yet.

ckparrothead
01-29-2010, 05:00 PM
Now, to give a different perspective, this comes from Rob Rang and Chad Reuter, and Chad is a guy that I've met and spoken with. Rob is a bit more well-traveled than Waldman.


01/28/10 - SENIOR BOWL RISER: TE Jimmy Graham, Miami: The Hurricanes' established history of churning out tight ends is in good hands with Graham, the ex-basketball player who only returned to the gridiron for his senior season. Graham won't wow you with his pop as a blocker, but he's remarkably smooth running routes and adjusting to poorly thrown passes for a man of his size (6-6, 260) and experience (one year with the Hurricanes). - Rob Rang, The Sports Xchange, NFLDraftScout.com

01/27/10 - Senior Bowl, Tuesday: Miami tight end Jimmy Graham had a phenomenal practice Tuesday, looking extremely fluid as a runner and catching everything in sight. The former Hurricane basketball player left safeties and linebackers without a clue on where or when his cut would come; the out routes and square-ins were equally crisp and strong. That sort of route-running ability for a one-year contributor, and at 6-7, 258 pounds, is rare. Watch for his name to climb up boards all the way to the draft. - Rob Rang and Chad Reuter, The Sports Xchange, NFLDraftScout.com

Awsi Dooger
01-31-2010, 03:49 PM
Barry Jackson's column in the Herald today included a blurb from Todd McShay on Graham:

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/basketball/story/1455131-p2.html

"ESPN's Todd McShay said "teams are worried that Jimmy Graham is just not football-tough.'' But that scout, at the Senior Bowl, said, "He's shown no signs that he's not tough enough. He's raw in everything he does, but he did a good job.''

***

That's exactly my worry, a troubling fragility. I felt stupid after reading the column because I started a related post last night, but canceled it when I didn't think I had expressed it well. I concede it's more instinct than anything else. Apparently some scouts feel the same way.

Graham can effortlessly lope and make the wow plays. I don't trust him in traffic to aggressively use his body and ferociously snatch the ball with a Ditka attitude. I don't trust him with the little details, period. I'd expect a critical pass to fall incomplete, with immense fan frustration that the opportunity was there, with Graham not understanding he needed to be more assertive and urgent. I realize that concern doesn't jive with front court basketball background. It could obviously change with experience. But I sense it. I watched him all year from low in the upper deck, a great view of plays unfolding. He was never roughed up, and in traffic he seemed to placidly position himself and wait for the ball instead of claiming territory with no questions allowed. Only the Duke game was somewhat of an exception, third down grabs over the middle when Jacory's thumb was hurt and he couldn't aim deep as often as typical.

Graham made a nice 17 yard catch in the waning seconds yesterday. On the next play he was targeted again but the pass flew past his noggin and was picked off. Mayock said (paraphrased), "I don't know what Jimmy Graham was thinking, not looking for the ball." It jived with a worry that Graham is primarily a wanderer at this point. Early in the game I noted a play where he ducked and never turned around when his intended path was blocked by two defenders.

Earlier in this thread I projected mid to late second round for Graham. I still think that's a possibility, but with the toughness issue at hand, I'd estimate third is now the favorite.

hooshoops
01-31-2010, 03:53 PM
i saw that also but i don't really put a whole lot of stock in mcshay...thus i didn't pay that much attention...

but who knows...

TedSlimmJr
01-31-2010, 04:21 PM
Look like Tarzan...play like Jane..

Try to convince yourself that Jimmy Graham is a good TE without using the word "potential"....

Lot of reports about him loafing in practice down in Mobile and always having an excuse for screw ups, etc....

No question he's got upside at a pass catcher....might be a little "soft" though....

If any team decides to burn a 2nd round pick on this kid....that GM better hope he made some solid picks with the rest of them....

PhinPhan910
01-31-2010, 05:25 PM
I would give him a try.. but definetly not with our 2nd rounder.. depending on how the draft goes out, I wouldn't totally mind if we picked him with our 3rd pick.