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CA Dolfan
01-27-2010, 04:21 PM
"New Dolphins defensive coordinator Mike Nolan is coaching at the Senior Bowl for the fourth time in five seasons. If history repeats, look for a few of the players he is tutoring this week to be wearing Miami uniforms in the fall"

http://www.miamidolphins.com/news/senior-bowl-day-3-nolan-has-eye-senior-bowl-talent

So does anyone how this guys drafts have gone?

Asicswrg85
01-27-2010, 04:44 PM
The article seems to state he did a good job drafting while the 49ers coach....However they were never that good so thats a tough call

foozool13
01-27-2010, 05:16 PM
He was there when Baltimore drafted Suggs, HE personally drafted Willis in SF when he was the GM/HC as we all know...Overall he knows his LBs thats safe to say.

He was also the DC when Baltimore drafted Aubrayo Franklin (DT) and then later brought him to SF in 2007 when he became HC.

BASICALLY - GREAT NEWS OVERALL - He seems to have a great eye for ILBs and DTs , our 2 greatest needs.

BigJP
01-27-2010, 05:33 PM
I am so stoked about having Mike Nolan here, I just pray that they let the man draft who he likes and who he feels he needs. Basically I just hope they gave him the keys to the D and said do with it what you like.

#1dolphinsfan
01-27-2010, 06:02 PM
i wouldnt mind seeing Myron Rolle in a Fins uniform

outlawd2u
01-27-2010, 06:41 PM
I don't think it matters how he drafts since he won't be the one making the picks for Miami.

jvw
01-27-2010, 08:09 PM
We have a pretty good guy already who has a good history on drafting LBers,Parcells...... not sure Nolan will have anymore input than Henning does when it comes to the offense. Nolan needs to spend his time watching film and practices of Our guys right now, so he can evaluate and get his plan together on how he wants to use guys, not scouting players in the college ranks.

fattness
01-27-2010, 08:18 PM
Mike Nolan is butter.

2413fanphins
01-27-2010, 09:40 PM
We have a pretty good guy already who has a good history on drafting LBers,Parcells...... not sure Nolan will have anymore input than Henning does when it comes to the offense. Nolan needs to spend his time watching film and practices of Our guys right now, so he can evaluate and get his plan together on how he wants to use guys, not scouting players in the college ranks.



I disagree. I have to think that right now is the exact time he needs to spend on the college level players. this week in particular the seniors at the senior bowl.
after this week, the other potential draft selections, so as to be able to gie his input in the war room.

He has plenty of time to watch film on our current guys. down time between now and the comine and now and the draft. and of course after the draft to OTA's and training camp.

just my thoughts.

Pinkboy
01-27-2010, 09:54 PM
I disagree. I have to think that right now is the exact time he needs to spend on the college level players. this week in particular the seniors at the senior bowl.
after this week, the other potential draft selections, so as to be able to gie his input in the war room.

He has plenty of time to watch film on our current guys. down time between now and the comine and now and the draft. and of course after the draft to OTA's and training camp.

just my thoughts.

I agree. It doesn't take much time to see how much the defense sucked.

All you need to show him really is the Indy game to get an idea of the Dolphins defense. Who can play and who sucks.

That game was a microcosm of the low level of talent on D. And it will only take under 15 minutes of Nolan's time since he won't be watching the 45+ minutes of Dolphins offense in that game.

JT-forpresident
01-27-2010, 09:59 PM
I don't think it matters how he drafts since he won't be the one making the picks for Miami.

This staff works as a team ... obviously, parcells *eeeeeeeerrrrr * ireland, will have the final say on who's drafted ...

but don't fool yourself into thinking Jeff and Bill won't talk closely to their coaches to get their persective on some of the players...

and with mike's experience/expertise in defences and linebackers, he'll probably be a key factor into our decision making regarding the selection of defensive players, ESPECIALLY linebackers

BARF
01-27-2010, 10:25 PM
at least someone does, i wish we would have brought him in earlier

outlawd2u
01-27-2010, 10:57 PM
This staff works as a team ... obviously, parcells *eeeeeeeerrrrr * ireland, will have the final say on who's drafted ...

but don't fool yourself into thinking Jeff and Bill won't talk closely to their coaches to get their persective on some of the players...

and with mike's experience/expertise in defences and linebackers, he'll probably be a key factor into our decision making regarding the selection of defensive players, ESPECIALLY linebackers

They can talk closely to their coaches but in the end it doesn't matter. Parcells/Ireland are going to pick whoever THEY like, do you really think Nolan is going to sway their decisions?

cobbs321
01-28-2010, 12:51 AM
I can see him doing one of two things
1) Draft Rolando McClain: Possibly the next Patrick Willis???
if McClain is not there then
2) I think he will trade back and draft Jerry Hughes and pick up a 2nd in the process

rev kev
01-28-2010, 11:21 AM
I would have drafted P Willis to so shouldn"t I be offered a job...?

rev kev
01-28-2010, 11:25 AM
I can see him doing one of two things
1) Draft Rolando McClain: Possibly the next Patrick Willis???
if McClain is not there then
2) I think he will trade back and draft Jerry Hughes and pick up a 2nd in the process

I am down with that Idea but Cain is not P Willis..., we'll all be disappointed to expect Cain to be Willis..., Cain does not appear on tape to be that kind of impact player but will be more like a coach on the field making sure tackles not over-running plays calling Defenses..., being a stud on the run...

If we don't get Cain at #12 or drop back then i hope they draft Spiller and line up him up every-freaking-where - like the Pats did with Faulk... line him up at WR and let him go...!!!

RealDriscoll
01-28-2010, 12:27 PM
Rev Kev,

Everything is better in hindsight. I loved Willis coming out as well. I would have taken Brady Quinn. As bad of a pick Ginn has been he has been better than Quinn. I still have faith that Ginn will bounce back in 2010

RealDriscoll
01-28-2010, 12:27 PM
I love the idea of drafting Chris Johnson 2.0, I mean CJ Spiller

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 01:51 PM
The main thing is you want to get a guy that's going to help you win football games because he's an excellent player. A bunch of the guys you could draft at #12 will end up being mediocre at best. Focus on getting one of the best players, then from there you can try and steer toward position needs.

C.J. Spiller is absolutely one of the best players. As is Dez Bryant. Eric Berry as well. And of course, Suh and McCoy.

Aside from those guys it still gets more dicey for me. Is Brandon Graham showing what he needs to show at Senior Bowl practices to get into this area? Maybe. But with those shorter arms, inconsistent outside rush, lack of strong punch...those are risk factors. The five players above have their own risk factors of course but they were INCREDIBLE football players on the football field, making you say "what risk factor?". I don't know that Graham, despite the gaudy numbers, was an incredible football player on the field. I think he benefited from the position and system he plays in, same defense that produced gaudy TFL numbers for Shawn Crable.

What about Derrick Morgan? Yeah, I'll admit, when you watch Ricky Stanzi run away from Morgan with the two at a dead run, there's a risk factor there. Generally Morgan plays in a way that makes me fall in love with him every time...but there's risk in him.

There's risk with Rolando McClain. Smart as he is, as good as he is at dissecting film and determining an offense's tendencies...he's not especially quick or fast, he's not especially physical, he doesn't have especially quick recognition on the move (though his pre-snap recognition is TOP NOTCH), he doesn't have an especially high motor. Risk, risk, risk, risk...especially when you're talking about a position that traditionally isn't drafted high.

So the more I look, the more I can't help thinking that the first question when we come to #12 will be, is one of those five players still on the board?

rev kev
01-28-2010, 01:56 PM
I love the idea of drafting Chris Johnson 2.0, I mean CJ Spiller

Ginn isn't mentally tough let alone physcially so I think he will play better when he isn"t expected to be the no.1 guy...

I think the D will be the focal point of the draft...

But Spiller and his versatility raises my eyesbrows and any RB who can slide out to WR and be productive opens up the O for everyone...

I am not a draft-nik however and really can't say much else...

j-off-her-doll
01-28-2010, 01:59 PM
The main thing is you want to get a guy that's going to help you win football games because he's an excellent player. A bunch of the guys you could draft at #12 will end up being mediocre at best. Focus on getting one of the best players, then from there you can try and steer toward position needs.

C.J. Spiller is absolutely one of the best players. As is Dez Bryant. Eric Berry as well. And of course, Suh and McCoy.

Aside from those guys it still gets more dicey for me. Is Brandon Graham showing what he needs to show at Senior Bowl practices to get into this area? Maybe. But with those shorter arms, inconsistent outside rush, lack of strong punch...those are risk factors. The five players above have their own risk factors of course but they were INCREDIBLE football players on the football field, making you say "what risk factor?". I don't know that Graham, despite the gaudy numbers, was an incredible football player on the field. I think he benefited from the position and system he plays in, same defense that produced gaudy TFL numbers for Shawn Crable.

What about Derrick Morgan? Yeah, I'll admit, when you watch Ricky Stanzi run away from Morgan with the two at a dead run, there's a risk factor there. Generally Morgan plays in a way that makes me fall in love with him every time...but there's risk in him.

There's risk with Rolando McClain. Smart as he is, as good as he is at dissecting film and determining an offense's tendencies...he's not especially quick or fast, he's not especially physical, he doesn't have especially quick recognition on the move (though his pre-snap recognition is TOP NOTCH), he doesn't have an especially high motor. Risk, risk, risk, risk...especially when you're talking about a position that traditionally isn't drafted high.

So the more I look, the more I can't help thinking that the first question when we come to #12 will be, is one of those five players still on the board?

Also, I don't know how well McClain fits in with Nolan's attacking D. From what I see, there's a priority on LB's that can excel in blitzing and attacking situations. Weatherspoon seems to fit with Nolan's style better than McClain. J. Pierre-Paul also fits - obviously at a different position, but I don't see him falling to us. With Spiller, maybe we can trade Brown and get a 2nd. If Graham does somehow fall to the 2nd, he's then an excellent value. At 12, not so much. I know you're down on Thomas for his size, but he's the best ball hawk in the draft, and that's also at a premium in Nolan's system.

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 02:02 PM
I personally wouldn't slide Spiller out to WR unless you're positive he'll be manned up on a LB.

You don't want to get greedy. He's not a Pro Bowl WR and a Pro Bowl RB wrapped into one person. His best asset is running the ball. He's an incredibly gifted runner. After that, you have him run traditional RB routes, and the key there is he's so fast and so elusive, that if defenses try and contain those routes the same way they try and contain, let's say, a Ricky Williams tailback route...you might end up seriously burned.

That's what I want. I want a guy that maybe every now and then you motion him out if you feel like you've got man coverage and a LB will have to take him...but that's not as common as just having him run a flare, leak or wheel pattern, throwing him the ball on screens etc...and then most importantly, having him take handoffs in the backfield and bust something wide open with his speed and vision.

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 02:04 PM
Also, I don't know how well McClain fits in with Nolan's attacking D. From what I see, there's a priority on LB's that can excel in blitzing and attacking situations. Weatherspoon seems to fit with Nolan's style better than McClain. J. Pierre-Paul also fits - obviously at a different position, but I don't see him falling to us. With Spiller, maybe we can trade Brown and get a 2nd. If Graham does somehow fall to the 2nd, he's then an excellent value. At 12, not so much. I know you're down on Thomas for his size, but he's the best ball hawk in the draft, and that's also at a premium in Nolan's system.

It's not that I'm down on Earl I just honestly think he might go to cornerback. I also question Rolando's fitness for Nolan's system with him being such a pedestrian blitzer. I'm not sure I would be comfortable yet talking about how Pierre-Paul would be unlikely to fall to #12. I think he's squarely on radar.

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 02:13 PM
The main thing is you want to get a guy that's going to help you win football games because he's an excellent player. A bunch of the guys you could draft at #12 will end up being mediocre at best. Focus on getting one of the best players, then from there you can try and steer toward position needs.

C.J. Spiller is absolutely one of the best players. As is Dez Bryant. Eric Berry as well. And of course, Suh and McCoy.

Aside from those guys it still gets more dicey for me. Is Brandon Graham showing what he needs to show at Senior Bowl practices to get into this area? Maybe. But with those shorter arms, inconsistent outside rush, lack of strong punch...those are risk factors. The five players above have their own risk factors of course but they were INCREDIBLE football players on the football field, making you say "what risk factor?". I don't know that Graham, despite the gaudy numbers, was an incredible football player on the field. I think he benefited from the position and system he plays in, same defense that produced gaudy TFL numbers for Shawn Crable.

What about Derrick Morgan? Yeah, I'll admit, when you watch Ricky Stanzi run away from Morgan with the two at a dead run, there's a risk factor there. Generally Morgan plays in a way that makes me fall in love with him every time...but there's risk in him.

There's risk with Rolando McClain. Smart as he is, as good as he is at dissecting film and determining an offense's tendencies...he's not especially quick or fast, he's not especially physical, he doesn't have especially quick recognition on the move (though his pre-snap recognition is TOP NOTCH), he doesn't have an especially high motor. Risk, risk, risk, risk...especially when you're talking about a position that traditionally isn't drafted high.

So the more I look, the more I can't help thinking that the first question when we come to #12 will be, is one of those five players still on the board?

how bout jpp as a fallback??? i know slimm and others are very intrigued....and how bout you guys put together some cut ups on him...

i'm gonna get my hands on some jpp and nate allen tape...i like nate allen...better in coverage and hips than i thought

JT-forpresident
01-28-2010, 02:16 PM
Pierre-Paul is my favorite option at #12 right now... he reminds me A LOT of jason taylor, except that he's got even better size ...

(obviously, if berry is available i'd rather get him but it's wishful thinking on anyone's part)

next up on my list would be Spiller, greatly depending on how we manage our RB situation ... ( will we resign ronnie ? is ricky done ? how's pat cobbs' knee ? )

my third favorite option is a toss up between bryant and McClain

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 02:17 PM
Yeah I'm working on the JPP footage especially as he's so squarely on Miami's radar. I remember going to a game at Ray Jay and hearing that Jeff Ireland was going to be there. I said immediately, it's not George Selvie he's looking at, it's Jason Pierre-Paul. That is, if I know Jeff Ireland (and I think I do). This of course was before Jason Pierre-Paul was on anyone's radar. ;)

This week I'm pretty busy trying to wrap up everything Shrine Game related. But I'll see if I can work in the time to get JPP's film up. I have three games of his and of course I've been watching him all year.

Pop in tape of Nate Allen this year, very good player with NFL tangibles.

Pop in tape of Nate Allen last year or the year before, SEVERE disappointment not near worth his billing.

That's my warning.

JT-forpresident
01-28-2010, 02:21 PM
there's already a draft site that made a little highlight reel of JPP on youtube... obviously, it's not as good as what the guys do at universaldraft.com, but it's a start... a teaser, i might say :lol:

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 02:28 PM
Yeah I'm working on the JPP footage especially as he's so squarely on Miami's radar. I remember going to a game at Ray Jay and hearing that Jeff Ireland was going to be there. I said immediately, it's not George Selvie he's looking at, it's Jason Pierre-Paul. That is, if I know Jeff Ireland (and I think I do). This of course was before Jason Pierre-Paul was on anyone's radar. ;)

This week I'm pretty busy trying to wrap up everything Shrine Game related. But I'll see if I can work in the time to get JPP's film up. I have three games of his and of course I've been watching him all year.

Pop in tape of Nate Allen this year, very good player with NFL tangibles.

Pop in tape of Nate Allen last year or the year before, SEVERE disappointment not near worth his billing.

That's my warning.

hmmm...well tell me some safeties you personally like later like 3rd 4th round or so....free safeties

the safety class as a whole is part of the reason that i don't think it makes sense to take earl thomas with a top #12 pick...eric berry??? absolutely... but i go elsewhere than earl thomas and look to get my safety later if in fact a safety is a target

i pretty much agree with your take on the 5 players that if one of them is there you take them without hesitation...spiller might be the only one i'd pause on...and i'm throwing mcclain in there as well..

suh
berry
mccoy
bryant
mcclain
b graham
jpp???
spiller

although suh and mccoy make more sense for 4-3 teams

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 02:56 PM
hmmm...well tell me some safeties you personally like later like 3rd 4th round or so....free safeties

the safety class as a whole is part of the reason that i don't think it makes sense to take earl thomas with a top #12 pick...eric berry??? absolutely... but i go elsewhere than earl thomas and look to get my safety later if in fact a safety is a target

i pretty much agree with your take on the 5 players that if one of them is there you take them without hesitation...spiller might be the only one i'd pause on...and i'm throwing mcclain in there as well..

suh
berry
mccoy
bryant
mcclain
b graham
jpp???
spiller

although suh and mccoy make more sense for 4-3 teams

I agree with you, as I've taken a closer look at a number of safeties, I've come away thinking that this could indeed be a class where you don't need to grab a guy super high.

Earl Thomas strikes me as a guy that could end up teaching me a valuable lesson, but I'm still ready to learn that lesson the hard way. What I believe is that if you're going to be a short safety that lacks a little bit of size, you NEED to be monstrously physical. Bob Sanders was a human missile at Iowa. On top of it, he was ridiculously athletic. Everyone knew that if the dude were 3 inches taller, he'd be a high first round pick. I thought Sanders was very good in coverage at Iowa, but in the NFL I still have issues with him in coverage sometimes because of his height. Just as I have issues with Jim Leonhard. Notice both of those guys may be short safeties, but they're both super physical. I don't think that's a coincidence, I really do think you have to be that much more physical than your average bear, if you're going to be a short safety. Eric Berry is (and is closer to 6'0" besides)...Earl Thomas does not strike me as being that physical.

The more I looked at Larry Asante the more I really appreciated what he brought to the table as a safety. He has a very good build and is very physical, but most importantly he's got a really good feel for angles in the open field. I was looking forward to seeing him at the Shrine practices, had him in my back pocket as a sleeper I was going to talk about a lot, and then he got picked up for the Senior Bowl. Go figure. :)

When I pop in the tape, Kurt Coleman is usually nothing short of tremendous. But, at only 5'10" and 187 pounds, he's got issues same as Earl...without as much speed. It's disconcerting because he really has an excellent feel for coverage and I like his quickness in making a read.

I had a dream last night that we drafted Harry Coleman. It wasn't a bad dream.

Everyone should know that I'm a fan of Morgan Burnett. He's got a ton going for him. But I question his speed. I look very keenly for instances of speed calibration and what I'll say is that on the occasions when I've been able to "test" Burnett that way...I've not been encouraged. What he runs will be important, I hate to say it.

Maybe my overall favorite aside from an Eric Berry would be Kam Chancellor. You don't get more physically impressive than that guy. What he provides you at the FS spot is the ability to read the QB's eyes from long distances, close on the ball with NFL burst, and the physicality and size to break up passes. He will stick his nose in against the run, and with his frame much like Sean Smith, you're really going to have to get behind him in order to complete a deep ball on him. That last is a key, of course, because some people do not like his ability to turn and run. I would say, laterally has not been an issue for him. And if you don't like his turn and run, why would you put him at strong safety? He's going to have to turn and run a lot more there than if you've got him keeping everything in front of him at free safety. I view him much the same as I viewed Sean Smith last year. Oversized, but physically gifted and very effective.

After those guys (Eric Berry, Kam Chancellor, Earl Thomas, Morgan Burnett, Larry Asante, Kurt Coleman)...I don't have many guys I really like. I've always appreciated Van Eskridge but if he's really a 4.65 guy then he's not going to work at the next level. He has great instincts but he's no Jairus Byrd that way, to make up for a ridiculous lack of speed. I got a strong look at Robert Johnson at the Shrine week and honestly, I didn't necessarily like what I saw. Stiff, mechanical, slow to make reads, grotesquely skinny calves. Darrell Stuckey impressed but as more of a strong safety. T.J. Ward same but he's also tiny.

j-off-her-doll
01-28-2010, 03:03 PM
For Nolan's D, I see E. Thomas working as well as E. Berry. Thinking of the D's he's used the best, he had "undersized" FS's (E. Reed, R. Hill). I think he's a better man-to-man cover guy than Berry - bonus for blitzing scenarios - and covers maybe more ground - again, the most important aspect of a FS. He hits hard - think he forced 3 fumbles last season, and makes big plays. If we still had PP, I think Thomas would be wasted on a dummy system. But, with Nolan, I see a player making a lot of plays. He reminds me more of E. Reed than any FS since. Reed also looks like a FS that might be better suited for CB - just looking at his size. Also, speaking of getting a FS later in the draft, no other FS has the production or range of Thomas - save for Berry. If Clemons isn't the answer - don't think he is - FS is too important in Nolan's D to disregard with a player that will just suffice.

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 03:09 PM
what about chad jones???

i see asante and chancellor as more in the box safeties...i've seen chancellor beaten too much in coverage while watching va tech games to plug him at fs...

but i've never seen chancellor look as good as he did at the shrine week...never

and i absolutely agree with you that if you're gonna be undersized at safety you better be a very physical player and i don't see a very physical player in earl thomas...i see willing but not packs a pop

ZachThomas76
01-28-2010, 03:13 PM
Rev Kev,

Everything is better in hindsight. I loved Willis coming out as well. I would have taken Brady Quinn. As bad of a pick Ginn has been he has been better than Quinn. I still have faith that Ginn will bounce back in 2010

its not hindsight when 1 second after Ginn is drafted you proclaim thats a terrible choice and never change your opinion. its not hindsight when you say BEFORE the draft who you want at 9, and stick with that.

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 03:33 PM
what about chad jones???

i see asante and chancellor as more in the box safeties...i've seen chancellor beaten too much in coverage while watching va tech games to plug him at fs...

but i've never seen chancellor look as good as he did at the shrine week...never

and i absolutely agree with you that if you're gonna be undersized at safety you better be a very physical player and i don't see a very physical player in earl thomas...i see willing but not packs a pop

I guess we just have different visions for what these players need to bring into certain positions in a defense. At free safety what Kam has the luxury of being able to do is use his eyes more and keep things in front of him, use his burst and physicality to get to the ball. If he's a smart player that understands offense and defense, it'll work like a charm, especially since he adds the dimension of physicality.

I would say strong safety is more the position where you have to be strong in pure man coverage, with fluid hips to turn and run with someone, the ability to cover a tight end in man, etc. This is why, IMO, more often you find that in college there's a fluidness between guys playing cornerback and strong safety. A particularly physical cornerback with coverage skills will be moved to strong safety a lot of times.

To me, an ideal free safety is extremely smart first off, a great communicator, has really good range (which is not necessarily the same thing as the ability to turn and run or keep with a guy in man coverage), has the frame and ball skills to cover the deep ball, and the physicality to nail a receiver catching the ball over the middle or on an underthrow to the sidelines.

Reality dictates you never find the perfect player. But with some things being more important than others, you can find an imperfect player that is still a perfect free safety...and right now I think of Asante and Chancellor as guys that could be free safeties. I dunno, it's just what I see.

rev kev
01-28-2010, 10:03 PM
I personally wouldn't slide Spiller out to WR unless you're positive he'll be manned up on a LB.

You don't want to get greedy. He's not a Pro Bowl WR and a Pro Bowl RB wrapped into one person. His best asset is running the ball. He's an incredibly gifted runner. After that, you have him run traditional RB routes, and the key there is he's so fast and so elusive, that if defenses try and contain those routes the same way they try and contain, let's say, a Ricky Williams tailback route...you might end up seriously burned.

That's what I want. I want a guy that maybe every now and then you motion him out if you feel like you've got man coverage and a LB will have to take him...but that's not as common as just having him run a flare, leak or wheel pattern, throwing him the ball on screens etc...and then most importantly, having him take handoffs in the backfield and bust something wide open with his speed and vision.

I was thinking the mismatch with a LB not a CB