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FinAtic8480
01-28-2010, 03:24 PM
The player having the best week at the Senior Bowl appears to be Penn State defensive linemen Jared Odrick.
Odrick has been dominating for the North squad. At 6-foot-5, 301, hed be an ideal 3-4 end - a postion where the Dolphins appear to be set.
But the word is the Dolphins love Odrick.


http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydolphin/2010/01/28/senior-bowl-giving-dolphins-plenty-to-chew-on/

This kid has looked sick in practices, if the man crush the Fins have on Odrick are true he would be excellent pick. Sometimes it is abou tbest player avalaible.

kwill29
01-28-2010, 03:25 PM
Odrick is a stud muffin. We would be lucky to have him. We just have other needs.

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 03:29 PM
if he is in fact viewed as a 3-4 end by this regime that pick would make no sense...it's one of the few positions we already have solid depth and talent

rrrrphin
01-28-2010, 03:33 PM
Unless they really move Merling to SOLB

ZachThomas76
01-28-2010, 03:34 PM
is he strong enough to play NT? Dallas has Ratliff, who's like 290 isnt he? dont know if NT at 12 is really the way Id go though.

FinAtic8480
01-28-2010, 03:34 PM
This falls to Miami it does not matter what you have you take him. Langford & Merling have been solid, but neither is no playmaker. The kid has serious skills and you cannot pass that up.

ZachThomas76
01-28-2010, 03:35 PM
Unless they really move Merling to SOLB
lol. Merling is one more trip to the buffet away from playing NT. swing and a miss on guys who projected him sliding out to 3-4 olb.

j-off-her-doll
01-28-2010, 03:35 PM
Odrick looks great, but at 12, he's a waste of a pick, and he won't be BPA. And, he won't fall to the 2nd.

OrlandoFin
01-28-2010, 03:36 PM
if he is in fact viewed as a 3-4 end by this regime that pick would make no sense...it's one of the few positions we already have solid depth and talent

The only way it makes sense is if they move Merling. Not sure what value he has, but would think it would be no higher than a 3rd, but more than likely a 4th.

Odrick would be that rare type of 3-4 DE similar to Seymour that can not only play the run well, but can get pressure in passing situations. As I have heard over and over you can never have enough pass rushers.

Prime Time Ron
01-28-2010, 03:37 PM
odrick is a beast

FinAtic8480
01-28-2010, 03:38 PM
The guy looks like a sure playmaker he has been umblockable all week. Even Lupati who has been the best offensive lineman at the practices has struggled. He also has the nastiness you love from your lineman. If any of you have watched the practices you would not question Miami taking him especially if they answer some of their needs through FA.

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 03:44 PM
if i really want a 3-4 end given miami's current team...i'm not taking one at #12...if in fact that's what odrick is viewed as

hell...i'd take an alex carrington or a vince oghaboose in the 3rd or so and use that high pick on another premium position...

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 03:46 PM
Unless Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Dez Bryant, Eric Berry or C.J. Spiller are on the board, IMO Jared Odrick is as much the "best player available" as anyone else available. He's right up there with Derrick Morgan, Jason Pierre-Paul, Rolando McClain and Russell Okung...also toss in Jimmy Clausen and Sam Bradford.

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 03:47 PM
The guy looks like a sure playmaker he has been umblockable all week. Even Lupati who has been the best offensive lineman at the practices has struggled. He also has the nastiness you love from your lineman. If any of you have watched the practices you would not question Miami taking him especially if they answer some of their needs through FA.

i've watched every practice...i'm not taking a 3-4 end with our needs at pick #12...nope

if odrick is viewed as something else ok i can maybe see that

and as others have said odrick doesn't make it to our 2nd round pick

RealDriscoll
01-28-2010, 03:53 PM
Odrick at 12 a waste? Child-Please. Odrick is a beast. I don't like him at #12 if McClain, Earl Thomas, Dez Bryant, or CJ Spiller are on the board. I like him over JPP, Derrick Morgan, and Mount Cody

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 03:54 PM
It's not like Odrick would never see the field. Starks led with 730 snaps and Langford with 581 but Merling got 376 and McDaniel got 315. Odrick could replace either of those guys...or both. Which means he's out there on the field as much as just about any starting DL in the entire league.

A good defense doesn't have 11 starters. A good defense has about 13.

RealDriscoll
01-28-2010, 03:55 PM
I think Morgan will be a better player elsewhere but Odrick is perfect for our system.

greasyObnoxious
01-28-2010, 03:56 PM
It's not like Odrick would never see the field. Starks led with 730 snaps and Langford with 581 but Merling got 376 and McDaniel got 315. Odrick could replace either of those guys...or both. Which means he's out there on the field as much as just about any starting DL in the entire league.

A good defense doesn't have 11 starters. A good defense has about 13.

that's like being a 7th defenseman on a hockey team. those guys usually end up playing more than the 5th and 6th defensemen.

RealDriscoll
01-28-2010, 03:56 PM
CK,

You don't think Odrick could play Nose in our defense?

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 03:58 PM
It's not like Odrick would never see the field. Starks led with 730 snaps and Langford with 581 but Merling got 376 and McDaniel got 315. Odrick could replace either of those guys...or both. Which means he's out there on the field as much as just about any starting DL in the entire league.

A good defense doesn't have 11 starters. A good defense has about 13.

so you're taking what would likely early on at least be a backup de at pick #12??? i don't argue that odrick should be in consideration talent wise for the pick but he doesn't fill a real need imo...

i'm sorry...no way no how would i take a 3-4 end at #12 with what we have in house already

i'm filling another need with a premium player

if odrick is viewed as a nose i can probably get on board with that...but i'm not sure i see him as a nose worthy of pick #12...i see more of an end in a 3-4 no matter how much i try

FinAtic8480
01-28-2010, 03:58 PM
CK,

You don't think Odrick could play Nose in our defense?

Excellent Question I have been thinking the same thing

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 03:59 PM
Not gonna forecast it until I see it. He can take on double teams, for sure. Don't know if he'll knock single blockers to the ground with straight forward power, which would command the doubles.

Tunaphish429
01-28-2010, 04:01 PM
They are planning on moving Merling to Solb..

Its gonna happen unless something goes drastically wrong..

He can lose the weight plus I am sure he would rather play linebacker since he was an edge guy at Clemson..

Odrick seems like a real good fit..

Tyson Jackson was taken very early last year..As well as Richard Seymour was before..

Parcells and company believe in that trickle down affect..

If have to be able to get pressure with 3 and 4 in this league to win..

FinAtic8480
01-28-2010, 04:02 PM
CK the guy has the exact build as Jay Ratliff

Tunaphish429
01-28-2010, 04:05 PM
I like Cam Thomas as a NT for us...

I think that would be sick to get Odrick in the 1st round..then get Thomas in 3rd round or so..

That would be a sick front 7 rotation

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 04:05 PM
so you're taking what would likely early on at least be a backup de at pick #12??? i don't argue that odrick should be in consideration talent wise for the pick but he doesn't fill a real need imo...

i'm sorry...no way no how would i take a 3-4 end at #12 with what we have in house already

i'm filling another need with a premium player

if odrick is viewed as a nose i can probably get on board with that...but i'm not sure i see a nose worthy of pick #12...i see more of an end in a 3-4 no matter how much i try

Of course the preference would be on different positions but if he grades as a can't miss guy and there aren't any other can't miss guys there, screw it, get a damn good player. You WILL benefit from a damn good player's presence on your roster. Just like a guy on viagra swimming the blankets with a woman WILL find the hole, even if he's blind.

What you don't want to do is end up trying to jam a mediocre player onto the football field. Like putting a clam in a coin slot.

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 04:07 PM
CK the guy has the exact build as Jay Ratliff

Which isn't a reason to assume he IS the next Jay Ratliff.

Jay Ratliff is an uncommon player at the nose.

Don't confuse a negative for a positive. You still generally want a nose that has a more stout build than Jay Ratliff. He's the exception, not the rule.

Tunaphish429
01-28-2010, 04:08 PM
CK the guy has the exact build as Jay Ratliff


Dallas plays a one gap system like the phins were doing last year....

Does this have any affect on what NT responsibltes are in a 3-4 defense as opposed to a 2 gap system?

Any idea what the phins will run with Nolan..

I read an article speculating he did both in Denver

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 04:08 PM
Of course the preference would be on different positions but if he grades as a can't miss guy and there aren't any other can't miss guys there, screw it, get a damn good player. You WILL benefit from a damn good player's presence on your roster. Just like a guy on viagra swimming the blankets with a woman WILL find the hole, even if he's blind.

What you don't want to do is end up trying to jam a mediocre player onto the football field. Like putting a clam in a coin slot.

absolutely...and i'm banking right now at least on a guy in a different need position being there at pick #12

but i'm absolutely with you about the bpa period thing if you can't fill a need bpa...

reaching is how you get in trouble...

3rdandinches
01-28-2010, 04:09 PM
No ones saying he doesn't have the talent, they are saying we have more then enough talent at DE for Odrick to be a good pick for us at 12. Not when Dez, McClain, Thomas and even Spiller are as talented and fill a greater need for this team. By all means if our DE position was average then Odrick would make sense and hold great value.

This theory of BPA no matter what position makes little sense at certain times, should we go DE at our 2nd pick aswell because of BPA? Reaching is the problem when your desperate to fill a need, but fortunately for us there will be plenty of talent that fits a need at 12 that won't be reaching.

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 04:10 PM
Which isn't a reason to assume he IS the next Jay Ratliff.

Jay Ratliff is an uncommon player at the nose.

Don't confuse a negative for a positive. You still generally want a nose that has a more stout build than Jay Ratliff. He's the exception, not the rule.

exactly...

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 04:12 PM
To me this is as much about need as anything.

I think Merling needs to be moved outside to linebacker.

I think Kendall Langford may have potential but he hasn't shown if very consistently at all. I looked for him to take a big step up this year and he basically flashed some great ability at the beginning of the year and the end of the year and was sort of OK in between. This is not a position where "OK" is acceptable, too much at stake on the position in a 3-4 defense.

Any of the three guys, between Merling, Langford and McDaniel, are definitely trade bait.

Hence, it's not a position you eliminate.

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 04:16 PM
To me this is as much about need as anything.

I think Merling needs to be moved outside to linebacker.

I think Kendall Langford may have potential but he hasn't shown if very consistently at all. I looked for him to take a big step up this year and he basically flashed some great ability at the beginning of the year and the end of the year and was sort of OK in between. This is not a position where "OK" is acceptable, too much at stake on the position in a 3-4 defense.

Any of the three guys, between Merling, Langford and McDaniel, are definitely trade bait.

Hence, it's not a position you eliminate.

but why can't we use a later pick to fill that need if in fact that's what it becomes due to trade or merling moving etc...

carrington and oghaboose would be good players in our defense and wouldn't have to use pick #12 to acquire them...likely 3rd round availability

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 04:25 PM
but why can't we use a later pick to fill that need if in fact that's what it becomes due to trade or merling moving etc...

carrington and oghaboose would be good players in our defense and wouldn't have to use pick #12 to acquire them...likely 3rd round availability

The difference between "could be" good players in our defense, and "will be" a good player in our defense.

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 04:27 PM
The difference between "could be" good players in our defense, and "will be" a good player in our defense.

lol...come on...there's no guarantee that odrick "will be"

i think he would be but i also think oghaboose and carrington would as well...

to each his own...

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 04:29 PM
In a way, it makes even less sense to use a mid-round pick on the position. A guy you get up at #12 is supposed to have a very high ceiling. A guy you get in the mid rounds is supposed to have a fairly low ceiling. What good is getting a low ceiling guy when we already have Langford and McDaniel, even if we do move Merling out to SOLB?

If you're going for that position, it's because you're getting a star...because the enemy of 'great' is 'good'.

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 04:32 PM
In a way, it makes even less sense to use a mid-round pick on the position. A guy you get up at #12 is supposed to have a very high ceiling. A guy you get in the mid rounds is supposed to have a fairly low ceiling. What good is getting a low ceiling guy when we already have Langford and McDaniel, even if we do move Merling out to SOLB?

If you're going for that position, it's because you're getting a star...because the enemy of 'great' is 'good'.

i don't consider carrington or oghaboose to have low ceilings...but i guess if a guy is picked in that round it's because he's not viewed as quite the players that the guys in front of him are...either that or al davis is doing the drafting...lol

i don't know...i just know i wouldn't burn a top #12 pick on a 3-4 end given all our other needs and what i think will be available for us to choose from...

guess we'll see

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 04:34 PM
FWIW, we (being us fine folks at Universal Draft) have also heard through our contacts that the Dolphins are very high on Jared Odrick.

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 04:36 PM
any other names "you fine folks" are hearing???

FinAtic8480
01-28-2010, 04:37 PM
At this point the only guy I would have no doubts of taking at 12 is Robert McClain. Odrick has really impressed me as well. As for Bryant he concerns me as well as Spiller. Spiller reminds me of Ginn for some weird reason. I have no problem with taking BPA at 12 instead of a need.

Oraclepz
01-28-2010, 04:40 PM
http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydolphin/2010/01/28/senior-bowl-giving-dolphins-plenty-to-chew-on/

This kid has looked sick in practices, if the man crush the Fins have on Odrick are true he would be excellent pick. Sometimes it is abou tbest player avalaible.


well not really far fetched if we draft him. We could be moving Merling to SOLB

ckparrothead
01-28-2010, 04:46 PM
Jermaine Gresham, Brandon Spikes, Jared Odrick, C.J. Spiller, Jimmy Graham, Jason Pierre-Paul, Earl Thomas...that's about all I can think of. Some is public info some is not.

RealDriscoll
01-28-2010, 04:53 PM
CK..nothing on Dez?

RealDriscoll
01-28-2010, 04:56 PM
I wonder if they Jimmy Graham enough to take him in Round 3

greasyObnoxious
01-28-2010, 04:58 PM
I wonder if they Jimmy Graham enough to take him in Round 3

it's a bit surprising to hear about all of those guys who are candidates at #12 and Jimmy Graham. i really hope we're not talking about #12 with him.

OrlandoFin
01-28-2010, 05:11 PM
I think Merling needs to be moved outside to linebacker.

I respect your opinion on here a lot, but I have seen many people think he should move to OLB and I don't know why. Sell me on this, because I haven't seen anything from him that makes me think he is athletic enough to play SOLB. Obviously he would have to lose weight, but even at Clemson he was around 275, I just don't see it.

Tunaphish429
01-28-2010, 05:15 PM
I respect your opinion on here a lot, but I have seen many people think he should move to OLB and I don't know why. Sell me on this, because I haven't seen anything from him that makes me think he is athletic enough to play SOLB. Obviously he would have to lose weight, but even at Clemson he was around 275, I just don't see it.


Int vs Jets in 2008, Showed me alot

zodiak
01-28-2010, 05:16 PM
Jumping in on this topic for a second, regarding the value of the 12th pick for miami....its to me a tough pick.

I feel the player at 12 wont be perfect,who ever he is will come with some reservations(incuding mcclain IMO) as for the debate over Odrick or a DE later in the draft, on the surface the strenght of the defense seemed to be the DL a closer looked reveals the rush D suffered from '08 to '09, also the progress of the younger DLmen I feel didnt occur, Merling seemed to regress Langford was quite and Dotson again made very little contrabution.
So I see the reasoning for possibly drafting a DLmen at 12, however there are other areas on the defense that are more pressing.

ILB is a must this area has to be upgraded or there will continue to be poorus defense played, now the tough part, IMO you should ask if player X lets say McClain fits a need & player Y lets say Odrick fits more as an upgrade, two questions need to be asked then answered before challenging the pick as good or bad.
1-how much difference between X & Y in terms of ability and contrabution to your team?
2-what other players can you get to a-fix a need & b-ugrade a position?

To me upgrade vs fix are two different matters, as mentioned Langford,McDaniel,Merling to this point are servicable can you win with them yes, however the "need" at ILB and lesser extent OLB is to me a "fix" those positions are broken.

Thus the value must be whats the difference between getting a need(fix) or an upgrade, Im not sure at this stage miami can afford with the 12th pick to upgrade, just my point of view this should be a fix player and there are enough positions that need fixed that they can find a good/great player at that position, unless a player is a "great" cant miss prospect then drafting to upgrade is a mistake.

Oraclepz
01-28-2010, 05:17 PM
Int vs Jets in 2008, Showed me alot


and that was when he was fat.. ( so to speak)

OrlandoFin
01-28-2010, 05:38 PM
Int vs Jets in 2008, Showed me alot

I don't know, I once saw Shaun Rogers return an interception back for a 66 yard TD, but that doesn't make him a fit to move back to OLB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2vks25u-r4

Tunaphish429
01-28-2010, 05:38 PM
Yea so if he can battle guards and tackles leaning on him all game...

I think he can Jam Te and take on LT from a OLB positon and technique standpoint

I really loved him coming out of Clemson..He should have been OLB all along..I wonder if he has that abilty to get low and small tho on pass rush...But I def see a Matt Roth type guy when i see Merling

hooshoops
01-28-2010, 05:39 PM
Jumping in on this topic for a second, regarding the value of the 12th pick for miami....its to me a tough pick.

I feel the player at 12 wont be perfect,who ever he is will come with some reservations(incuding mcclain IMO) as for the debate over Odrick or a DE later in the draft, on the surface the strenght of the defense seemed to be the DL a closer looked reveals the rush D suffered from '08 to '09, also the progress of the younger DLmen I feel didnt occur, Merling seemed to regress Langford was quite and Dotson again made very little contrabution.
So I see the reasoning for possibly drafting a DLmen at 12, however there are other areas on the defense that are more pressing.

ILB is a must this area has to be upgraded or there will continue to be poorus defense played, now the tough part, IMO you should ask if player X lets say McClain fits a need & player Y lets say Odrick fits more as an upgrade, two questions need to be asked then answered before challenging the pick as good or bad.
1-how much difference between X & Y in terms of ability and contrabution to your team?
2-what other players can you get to a-fix a need & b-ugrade a position?

To me upgrade vs fix are two different matters, as mentioned Langford,McDaniel,Merling to this point are servicable can you win with them yes, however the "need" at ILB and lesser extent OLB is to me a "fix" those positions are broken.

Thus the value must be whats the difference between getting a need(fix) or an upgrade, Im not sure at this stage miami can afford with the 12th pick to upgrade, just my point of view this should be a fix player and there are enough positions that need fixed that they can find a good/great player at that position, unless a player is a "great" cant miss prospect then drafting to upgrade is a mistake.

well said

Tunaphish429
01-28-2010, 05:40 PM
I don't know, I once saw Shaun Rogers return an interception back for a 66 yard TD, but that doesn't make him a fit to move back to OLB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2vks25u-r4


Yea I understand what you mean..But if Vonnie Holliday deserved a shot at OLB I am sure Merling deserves a shot too...He was an edge guy at Clemson he never was inside playing 5 or 3 tech from what I remember...

His frame is just right IMO to play OLB..I am not sure about his Top end speed and shuttle..

You might be able to look that up from the combine...

But really has not done much as a DE for us so far so its worth a shot..

especially if they think they can get someone better at DE

foozool13
01-28-2010, 05:45 PM
I think this guy could be the NT we are looking for...VERY VERY similar to Jay Ratliff who was drafted by BP and Jeff Ireland in Dallas.

enduro
01-28-2010, 05:47 PM
http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydolphin/2010/01/28/senior-bowl-giving-dolphins-plenty-to-chew-on/

This kid has looked sick in practices, if the man crush the Fins have on Odrick are true he would be excellent pick. Sometimes it is abou tbest player avalaible.

the kid is good but maybe a smoke screen to artificially raise his value for someone else to drop. it's all a game.

dolfan91
01-28-2010, 05:52 PM
I remember reading about Odrick in all the pre-season magazines, and on all the draft sites during the season... all i kept thinking was keep an eye on this guy... he was a perfect fit for the 3-4 defense as an end and rush DT on passing downs ... after seeing many draft sites start to recognize Odrick as a possible top 15 pick... it didn't suprise me that Miami could be interested at #12 ... after reading that Merling was asked to lose 10lbs, and reading all of you thinking he going to be moving to OLB ... it again makes sense that Miami could be interested ... I like this idea ... and realize I am in the minority on Odrick at #12, but my thinking is Miami might feel that there isn't an OLB @ #12 worthy of that pick ... especially if McClain is gone as expected... after hearing how Miami had Lang, Sheffield, Coleman and Selvie take some snaps at OLB in Senior bowl practice, my gut tells me that they are thinking round 2-3 for a shot at one of these guys... knowing they have something else in mind for #12... just a theory of mine...

OrlandoFin
01-28-2010, 05:54 PM
Yea I understand what you mean..But if Vonnie Holliday deserved a shot at OLB I am sure Merling deserves a shot too...He was an edge guy at Clemson he never was inside playing 5 or 3 tech from what I remember...

His frame is just right IMO to play OLB..I am not sure about his Top end speed and shuttle..

You might be able to look that up from the combine...

But really has not done much as a DE for us so far so its worth a shot..

especially if they think they can get someone better at DE

I think Holiday even at his age was/is more athletic than Merling. I never did like the Merling pick and while I don't expect a DE in a 3-4 to be very sexy I expect more out of what was esentially the last pick in round one in 2008.

I honestly would like to see Miami try and trade him to a team that runs a 4-3 where he can play his natural position which is SDE. I see him more of a Kevin Carter type of player. I am all for trading him and trying to get a 3rd or 4th. Or maybe involve him in some sort of trade for Boldin. Maybe Porter/Merling straight up for Boldin. AZ needs a true 3-4 DE and I think Merling has found himself 3rd or 4th on Miami's depth chart.

Merling didn't compete at the combine and didn't run a shuttle at his pro day. His 40 was 4.63, 4.73 and 4.84. I think the 4.63 might have been a freindly watch.

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/story/2008/3/18/142958/771

Tunaphish429
01-28-2010, 05:57 PM
I don't know, I once saw Shaun Rogers return an interception back for a 66 yard TD, but that doesn't make him a fit to move back to OLB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2vks25u-r4


Merling actually played TE in High School..

so that might show you as well how athelitic he is

Tunaphish429
01-28-2010, 06:09 PM
I think Holiday even at his age was/is more athletic than Merling. I never did like the Merling pick and while I don't expect a DE in a 3-4 to be very sexy I expect more out of what was esentially the last pick in round one in 2008.

I honestly would like to see Miami try and trade him to a team that runs a 4-3 where he can play his natural position which is SDE. I see him more of a Kevin Carter type of player. I am all for trading him and trying to get a 3rd or 4th. Or maybe involve him in some sort of trade for Boldin. Maybe Porter/Merling straight up for Boldin. AZ needs a true 3-4 DE and I think Merling has found himself 3rd or 4th on Miami's depth chart.

Merling didn't compete at the combine and didn't run a shuttle at his pro day. His 40 was 4.63, 4.73 and 4.84. I think the 4.63 might have been a freindly watch.

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/story/2008/3/18/142958/771

Yea I just read that as well about his 40..Not great

I understand what you mean about him playing strong side..Kinda like Michael Strahan or Justin Tuck..

But Vonnie Holliday was a strong side end first that was then moved to DT..

I feel tho that if he can lose the weight he will be athletic enough..Coming out of Clemson he was projected to go higher than he did..He fell beacuse of the sports hernia injury..

Now back then i thought he was going to be an OLB..But the needs were there for a DE and Roth was not going to hold up in the trenches since he was a converted LB to DE...

But I think Merling Can Def be that end guy..He never was a DT and really thats what DE in 34 compare to

miami234ever
01-28-2010, 06:33 PM
Even if Merling is moved to SOLB, the idea of drafting Odrick to play any position other than NT is a waste. Either that or move Starks to NT with Odrick at RE, but Starks played near-perfect at RE and moving him could be a mistake. We'll have to wait and see.

72champagne
01-28-2010, 06:40 PM
that's like being a 7th defenseman on a hockey team. those guys usually end up playing more than the 5th and 6th defensemen.
uh, the 7th defenseman is usually a healthy scratch. at least on the sabres.

greasyObnoxious
01-28-2010, 06:46 PM
uh, the 7th defenseman is usually a healthy scratch. at least on the sabres.

yeah, and as soon as one of the top 6 defensemen gets hurt, you're in. since one of the top 6 is usually banged up, you're basically playing full-time. i wasn't talking about ice time, i was talking about the amount of games played.

some teams even play the 7th defender on the checking line.

Pinkboy
01-28-2010, 07:24 PM
yeah, and as soon as one of the top 6 defensemen gets hurt, you're in. since one of the top 6 is usually banged up, you're basically playing full-time. i wasn't talking about ice time, i was talking about the amount of games played.

So basically a back up to the starters.


some teams even play the 7th defender on the checking line.So basically he is just a plodding plugger with no real skill.

No thanks.

That's not what you look for in the top half of the 1st round in the NHL draft. Those plugs can be found anywhere and come cheap.

When you draft at the top half of the round, you are looking for a top 2 line player minimum, a top-4 defenseman minimum, or a starting goalie.. PERIOD. Not a bottom pairing defenseman (or a 7th for crying out loud), or a 3rd line checker or 4th line forward. The NHL is littered with those stiffs who have very little to no skill, and are always on waivers and can be had quite cheap

And it's certainly not what you look for in the top half of the 1st round in the NFL draft.

Your theory is seriously flawed.

greasyObnoxious
01-28-2010, 07:38 PM
So basically a back up to the starters.

So basically he is just a plodding plugger with no real skill.

No thanks.

That's not what you look for in the top half of the 1st round in the NHL draft. Those plugs can be found anywhere and come cheap.

When you draft at the top half of the round, you are looking for a top 2 line player minimum, a top-4 defenseman minimum, or a starting goalie.. PERIOD. Not a bottom pairing defenseman (or a 7th for crying out loud), or a 3rd line checker or 4th line forward. The NHL is littered with those stiffs who have very little to no skill, and are always on waivers and can be had quite cheap

And it's certainly not what you look for in the top half of the 1st round in the NFL draft.

Your theory is seriously flawed.


my theory was in reference to the playing time of our back-up DL and had no relevance for the draft.

Pinkboy
01-28-2010, 07:39 PM
You used a hockey reference that was quite amusing let me say.

Pinkboy
01-28-2010, 07:52 PM
ahh ok greasy. I thought you were lending credence to CK's stance early in the thread by using the hockey reference. And then laying credibility to those positions.

If that wasn't the case, my bad.

JT-forpresident
01-28-2010, 07:54 PM
You used a hockey reference that was quite amusing let me say.


did someone say HOCKEY !?!?! :ohno:


...

:lol:

greasyObnoxious
01-28-2010, 07:55 PM
did someone say HOCKEY !?!?! :ohno:


...

:lol:

yup, getting set to watch the Pens-Senators

houtz
01-28-2010, 08:38 PM
Went to school with Odrick. What a story that would be especially if he signs with the Fins. It'd give me all the more reason to root for him.

cheyannefan
01-28-2010, 10:02 PM
No ones saying he doesn't have the talent, they are saying we have more then enough talent at DE for Odrick to be a good pick for us at 12. Not when Dez, McClain, Thomas and even Spiller are as talented and fill a greater need for this team. By all means if our DE position was average then Odrick would make sense and hold great value.

This theory of BPA no matter what position makes little sense at certain times, should we go DE at our 2nd pick aswell because of BPA? Reaching is the problem when your desperate to fill a need, but fortunately for us there will be plenty of talent that fits a need at 12 that won't be reaching.
In my opinion you have to go BPA when that player fits your system. I would be excited if our pick was Odrick. He is a beast and would wreak havoc in this system. It is better to have too many good players at a posistion then to have just enough. We will figure something out with the other DE's by either trying Merling at SOLB or trading someone.

As far as I am concerned the only real sure fire need player available would be Dez Bryant. Something about McClain scares me, and something is telling me that he won't dominate in the NFL. I could be wrong, but that is just a feeling that I have. I would be upset if we took Spiller in round 1. I know we need depth at RB if Ronnie isn't 100% and Ricky will be calling it quits after the season. But there are always quality backs available in rounds 2 and 3. Look at Shonn Greene, arguably he played better than the 1st round backs last year.

Lord Of Miami
01-28-2010, 10:47 PM
1st off, any player Miami is leaking out that they " love " before the draft you can go ahead and just about take them off their board as anyone they would pick in the 1st round. WE are going on our 3rd year with Bill here, you all should know better then to buy into that BS.

Second:He would be a LDE in a 3-4 if he came here.................When was the last time a 3-4 team drafted a LDE as a top 12 pick.I can't think of a time that has happen in the last 21 years i've followed the draft.

Third:Kendall Langford has been a good player for us and drafting a player to take over his spot would just about be retarded when we have so many other needs.

A team can win with Langford as a LDE, but you can't win, when your FS sucks and have no WR that can get open deep and catch a ball, you only have one decent Cover ILB,Your only good OLB is what 35 or 36, and on his last leg.We also need a TE that can put some fear in safeties more then a new LDE.

And last, i've seen Odrick a'lot he does get off the snap fast but what about making plays......................i mean really.Getting off the ball fast is great, when it leads to making plays, but with him it doesn't.

To me Jared Odrick = John Bosa 2.0

utahphinsfan
01-29-2010, 12:25 AM
The comparison of Odrick to Jay Ratliff is intriguing. Though, is it possible for Bill & Jeff to catch lightning in a bottle twice?

McDaniel played some NT after Ferguson went down? Maybe Nolan has a master plan to become aggressive & unpredictable? Perhaps, the D will set a trend like the O did w/ the 'cat?

Is this misdirection? Penn St has 2 other players (Lee & Bowman) who play positions the phins need upgrades/depth/youth at.

It couldn't be that Ireland & Sparano are looking Daryll Clark or Quarless; could it?

ChambersWI
01-29-2010, 12:59 AM
The comparison of Odrick to Jay Ratliff is intriguing. Though, is it possible for Bill & Jeff to catch lightning in a bottle twice?

McDaniel played some NT after Ferguson went down? Maybe Nolan has a master plan to become aggressive & unpredictable? Perhaps, the D will set a trend like the O did w/ the 'cat?

Is this misdirection? Penn St has 2 other players (Lee & Bowman) who play positions the phins need upgrades/depth/youth at.

It couldn't be that Ireland & Sparano are looking Daryll Clark or Quarless; could it?

Only player I can't see us looking at is Clark. Quarless was in and out of JoePa's dog house, but his big issue was just growing up from a kid to a man (which he did as a senior and had a damn good year). Bowman is still a little immature, but is a very intriguing prospect with a great blend of blitzing and coverage skills. Sean Lee IMO would be a first rounder had he not torn his ACL before the 08 season. Lee may not have gotten the hype of other PSU LBs like Pozlusney and Connor, but he is a better athlete than either of those 2.

As for Odrick? I've said for awhile that he could be like Jay Ratliff, but I've also said he was probably the most dominant defensive player this year not named Suh. He just didn't get that much credit because of the 2 NFL LBs behind him. He's a great player that I'd love to have on this team. Whether it's him as a 3-4 DE, NT, or a 4-3 DT. He would not disappoint.

Kdawg954
01-29-2010, 11:37 AM
This thread is full of people who don't care about BPA. This is like if Gerald McCoy drops to 12, u would have people wanting to pass because he isn't a 3-4 NT.

Honestly, who cares?

If Odrick is the BPA available, u take him . . . PERIOD. U can't afford to take a lower rated guy because he fills a need over a guy who is clearly a better player at a position we have better depth at.

If this guy is the next Richard Seymour on defense . . . you would really pass him up, because he doesn't fill the biggest need? Nah man. Like CK said, Merling is doing a OLB move, and Langford is solid, but not a BEAST. McDaniel and Dotsen are fantastic rotational guys. Plus with the 3-4 taking over the NFL, teams are looking for quality DE's, so Langford may net us a 2nd/3rd . . . u get that pick, it doesn't seem as bad now.

All I'm saying is, u don't reach for Ted Ginn who probably was a late 1st round projection by many because your offense lacks a big play WR, returner and speed.

U draft Patrick Willis . . . even with Crowder, Porter, JT and Zach Thomas already on the team (And don't give me Crowder sucks because that was his 3rd year and he was consistent, a starter on alot of teams), because he is the higher rated player and gives you options.

hooshoops
01-29-2010, 12:01 PM
that's just it...i don't think that jared odrick will be the bpa when we pick...

and if i've got someone with the same grade at another position of need as odrick given our depth at def end i'm taking the other guy...

period

Kdawg954
01-29-2010, 12:37 PM
that's just it...i don't think that jared odrick will be the bpa when we pick...

and if i've got someone with the same grade at another position of need as odrick given our depth at def end i'm taking the other guy...

period

fully agreeable, a no brainer actually. We can go back to 2008 . . . we need OLB and a LT . . . OLB wasn't horrible because we had JP . . .but we had NOBODY at LT. Chris Long may have been rated higher on some peoples board, but the ranking were so close, u take the guy that fills that hole.

That is understandable. If u have Odrick rated at 12 and Rolando McClain at 14, I think its a no brainer u take McClain. But if McClain is off the board and Spikes is ranked 27th . . . but the next best player at ILB . . . u take Odrick, even tho we didn't address our biggest hole, and added to what is probably the strongest unit on the team.

hooshoops
01-29-2010, 12:41 PM
fully agreeable, a no brainer actually. We can go back to 2008 . . . we need OLB and a LT . . . OLB wasn't horrible because we had JP . . .but we had NOBODY at LT. Chris Long may have been rated higher on some peoples board, but the ranking were so close, u take the guy that fills that hole.

That is understandable. If u have Odrick rated at 12 and Rolando McClain at 14, I think its a no brainer u take McClain. But if McClain is off the board and Spikes is ranked 27th . . . but the next best player at ILB . . . u take Odrick, even tho we didn't address our biggest hole, and added to what is probably the strongest unit on the team.

absolutely...

and i am firmly of the opinion that a top 15 worthy ilb, olb, wr, s NEED PLAYER will be staring us in the face at pick 12...

firmly

zodiak
01-29-2010, 01:08 PM
This thread is full of people who don't care about BPA. This is like if Gerald McCoy drops to 12, u would have people wanting to pass because he isn't a 3-4 NT.

Honestly, who cares?

If Odrick is the BPA available, u take him . . . PERIOD. U can't afford to take a lower rated guy because he fills a need over a guy who is clearly a better player at a position we have better depth at.

If this guy is the next Richard Seymour on defense . . . you would really pass him up, because he doesn't fill the biggest need? Nah man. Like CK said, Merling is doing a OLB move, and Langford is solid, but not a BEAST. McDaniel and Dotsen are fantastic rotational guys. Plus with the 3-4 taking over the NFL, teams are looking for quality DE's, so Langford may net us a 2nd/3rd . . . u get that pick, it doesn't seem as bad now.

All I'm saying is, u don't reach for Ted Ginn who probably was a late 1st round projection by many because your offense lacks a big play WR, returner and speed.

U draft Patrick Willis . . . even with Crowder, Porter, JT and Zach Thomas already on the team (And don't give me Crowder sucks because that was his 3rd year and he was consistent, a starter on alot of teams), because he is the higher rated player and gives you options.


Your point is understood, but with all due respect people with your point of view regarding drafting for need vs. BPA is always the same if this player(Odrick) turns out to be the next Seymour, the problam is you cant guarantee he will be the next Seymour.

So the argument for drafting for need is not flawed perhaps the best appraoch is draft the best player for a need, the fact is a team could draft all the next great anything and keep missing, or get fortunate and hit on a great player.

Dont let teams fool you they all draft for need, early in the draft then I believe draft either BPA or developmental type players late.

The history of the draft proves that,once Marino arrived maimi didnt draft a QB in the first rnd(if Im not mistaken they havent drafted a QB in rnd one since '83) but other teams as well the cowboys didnt draft a RB in rnd 1 during e.smiths prime.

Another perspective here is why arent we hearing from CK or any of the other "experts" no disrespect intended why isnt miami looking at the OT's in this draft certainly if you want the "best" player might the 12th best player be an OT maybe a CB, I keep hearing about that G from Idaho why isnt he being discussed here?

The reason is we as fans are thinking only in terms of needs(and teams do as well)its ok I dont have a problam with trying to build a team with the "best" player available at a need position, the Ginn vs Willis argument is weak because even if you wanted a WR Im not sure Ginn would have been the best pick at #9 either, that FO wanted Tedd Ginn period,plus the defense was coming of two strong years under Nick Saban and Dom Capers was highly regarded and the defense wasnt looked at as having a major need,unlike a poor offense that struggled with bad QB play hence the pre draft hype of Brady Quinn.

I love the work,knowledge & passion everyone has here about the dolphins & the draft but sometimes we all come of a bit highminded about our opinions(educated or not) the fact NO ONE here knows what any teams draft plans are or where they have players rated on their boards.

Every year the debate rages BPA or Need, the fact is all teams draft need first then BPA I will stick behind that point, sure a case here or there can be made otherwise but it almost always is a rare exception, another reason why its done is money a team cant have all their money tied up in one position, so you have to "settle" for the BPA at a need pos.

ZachThomas76
01-29-2010, 05:06 PM
Jermaine Gresham, Brandon Spikes, Jared Odrick, C.J. Spiller, Jimmy Graham, Jason Pierre-Paul, Earl Thomas...that's about all I can think of. Some is public info some is not.

i love when people say someone is high on CJ Spiller. LOL. Really? Ya, unless you're blind I guess you would be.

ckparrothead
01-29-2010, 05:10 PM
The question was asked which players the Dolphins are talking about. Spiller is a name being tossed around in that building, according to sources.

ZachThomas76
01-29-2010, 05:14 PM
The question was asked which players the Dolphins are talking about. Spiller is a name being tossed around in that building, according to sources.

every year a tonne of names get tossed around. when the dust all settles, those names generally go where people didnt have them going. i am curious who your sources are? a journalist? someone who actually works for the Phins? i doubt its the latter, as Parcells is notoriously secretive as to his intentions.

ckparrothead
01-29-2010, 06:16 PM
every year a tonne of names get tossed around. when the dust all settles, those names generally go where people didnt have them going. i am curious who your sources are? a journalist? someone who actually works for the Phins? i doubt its the latter, as Parcells is notoriously secretive as to his intentions.

Both.

TheBow305
01-29-2010, 08:36 PM
Unless Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Dez Bryant, Eric Berry or C.J. Spiller are on the board, IMO Jared Odrick is as much the "best player available" as anyone else available. He's right up there with Derrick Morgan, Jason Pierre-Paul, Rolando McClain and Russell Okung...also toss in Jimmy Clausen and Sam Bradford.

Ok fine. But in that case, you just move on to need. And Odrick certainly doesn't fit that.

houtz
01-29-2010, 11:24 PM
Wasn't CK dead on about who the Fins were looking at last season? I think I'd believe CK's sources.

ZachThomas76
02-01-2010, 04:16 PM
Wasn't CK dead on about who the Fins were looking at last season? I think I'd believe CK's sources.

really? theres some guy on here with a sig saying he nailed more Phins draft picks than CK. its easy to throw out 6-7 names at pick 12, most of us can do that. tell me who the pick IS, at 12, one name, and then i'll believe you have legit souces to the point where i need to see you remind me constantly that you have them............................

ckparrothead
02-01-2010, 04:21 PM
really? theres some guy on here with a sig saying he nailed more Phins draft picks than CK. its easy to throw out 6-7 names at pick 12, most of us can do that. tell me who the pick IS, at 12, one name, and then i'll believe you have legit souces to the point where i need to see you remind me constantly that you have them............................

It's even easier to make some anonymous after-the-fact claim that you've 'nailed' X number of picks or predicted this or that with no proof.

Whatever your beef is, get over it. Obsession isn't very becoming.

hooshoops
02-01-2010, 04:27 PM
i'm questioning jason pierre pauls change of direction...he looks a little stiff to me...not sure if it's stiff or that he's so raw though...

he gets in the backfield a ton and guys seem to run away from him on plays i think he should make...wierd

plus i don't know if he truly loves the game or just loves the money...i know they all love the money but i get a feeling that's the only reason he's playing football...

somethings got me spooked there

ZachThomas76
02-01-2010, 04:29 PM
It's even easier to make some anonymous after-the-fact claim that you've 'nailed' X number of picks or predicted this or that with no proof.

Whatever your beef is, get over it. Obsession isn't very becoming.
I have no beef CK. Theres some guy on here with a sig with his mock listed, and yours, and he indeed nailed more picks than you. The bottom line is, Bill Parcells isnt stupid. He isnt goin to talk about who he really wants, so people can post this info to the public. Parcells is going to mis direct people, lie to people, and toy with people. Theres 3 people who know who the Phins will select at 12. Bill Parcells, Jeff Ireland and Tony Sparano. Like I said, I appreciate your passion and hard work, but lets not get carried away...........

ckparrothead
02-01-2010, 04:37 PM
i'm questioning jason pierre pauls change of direction...he looks a little stiff to me...not sure if it's stiff or that he's so raw though...

he gets in the backfield a ton and guys seem to run away from him on plays i think he should make...wierd

plus i don't know if he truly loves the game or just loves the money...i know they all love the money but i get a feeling that's the only reason he's playing football...

somethings got me spooked there

Doesn't he remind you of one of those basketball players that comes out of high school having all this talent in the world but have yet to grow into or get comfortable with their physical abilities?

Like a young Dwight Howard.

Personally, the football player that the guy reminds me of is more along the lines of a Simeon Rice and that doesn't necessarily lend itself to playing a linebacker position and being able to execute the playbook from a spot that has such a variety of responsibilities and reads.

hooshoops
02-01-2010, 04:41 PM
Doesn't he remind you of one of those basketball players that comes out of high school having all this talent in the world but have yet to grow into or get comfortable with their physical abilities?

Like a young Dwight Howard.

Personally, the football player that the guy reminds me of is more along the lines of a Simeon Rice and that doesn't necessarily lend itself to playing a linebacker position and being able to execute the playbook from a spot that has such a variety of responsibilities and reads.

yeah...i think you nailed it...i really do...there's something there that i don't like about trying to make the move to lb...

when he gets in the backfield he comes in so upright or something and when guys cut on him he almost becomes erect when he tries to change direction...weird...and then they're gone and he's not close to making the tackle...not even attempting to...

slimm said he kind of has a look of jevon kearse when he first came out...

he's too raw and too mechanical or something for me at pick #12...i like the dwight howard analogy though...but this has boom or bust written all over it to me...

i'm thinking 4-3 end...he sets the edge vs the run pretty well though

ckparrothead
02-01-2010, 04:46 PM
I have no beef CK. Theres some guy on here with a sig with his mock listed, and yours, and he indeed nailed more picks than you. The bottom line is, Bill Parcells isnt stupid. He isnt goin to talk about who he really wants, so people can post this info to the public. Parcells is going to mis direct people, lie to people, and toy with people. Theres 3 people who know who the Phins will select at 12. Bill Parcells, Jeff Ireland and Tony Sparano. Like I said, I appreciate your passion and hard work, but lets not get carried away...........

Congratulations to him. We take a look at a service that compares first round mocks from about 70+ different places, including guys like Kiper, McShay, etc. It was the one that graded Rick Gosselin as the best for something like two or three years running. Last year only 2 or 3 out of the 70+ scored higher than the one I posted on Universal Draft. So your friend's mock is in great company, and I'm sure he's very proud.

Of course, I believe that mock drafts are nothing if not worthless when it comes to telling how much someone knows about the draft or draft prospects. They're pointless, purely for base entertainment purposes. I was having a nice conversation with a Jacksonville Jaguars scout at Shrine practice, when I told him that I was with a draft website he immediately chided me by asking (dripped with sarcasm) if we had our mock draft up yet. It wasn't until I assured him I don't particularly give a rat's *** about mock drafts and it wasn't even appropriate until we knew for sure which juniors were coming out anyway, that right now we're spending all of our time watching the players and grading them, that our conversation resumed its seriousness.

ZachThomas76
02-01-2010, 04:51 PM
Its all good CK. I agree mocks are pointless, I dont even read them to be honest. I was on a hockey board for 10 years, and there was a guy who claimed to have inside sources who was eventually outed as a fraud. Its probably why Im very leery of the guys who talk about their sources on a chat board. Its nothing personal. I appreciate the fact you put in alot of time and effort, and know your stuff. I dont agree with some of your opinions, and to be honest, I will be in shock if Phil Merling ever plays meaningfull snaps for the Phins at OLB.

BTW, this is way off topic, but how many people think Jason La Canfora of NFL Network is a virgin? I mean seriously..................

CK, have you heard anything regarding who the Hawks like? Kiper had them getting Morgan and Spiller, which sounds way too good to be true. Driscoll on here had them taking Mays at 6 and McKnight in the 2nd. Neither pick makes sense to me. They have a 3rd down type back already in Forsett, so why take McKnight? I think the days of 230 lb safeties are long gone too.

hooshoops
02-01-2010, 04:54 PM
john clayton too...lol

ZachThomas76
02-01-2010, 04:58 PM
john clayton too...lol

lol. im sure you heard the tape with Salisbury. classic.

ckparrothead
02-01-2010, 04:58 PM
I appreciate that we could come to a better understanding, I really do. I'll try, as always, to rein in any instinct toward insufferableness (if that's a word).

But know that if I say that a guy that speaks with people inside the organization says that they've talked about Jared Odrick...I do mean that. That doesn't mean they're going to take him. It's just whatever it's worth. Maybe they do talk about a ton of different prospects and so any given name you hear from them is useless. Or maybe not. I can say this KIND of information has bore fruit in the past, with both the Dolphins and with other teams...so who really knows. If the Dolphins are talking about Jared Odrick at #12, at the very least MAYBE it tells us that they doubt they'll be considering him at, let's say, #73.

ZachThomas76
02-01-2010, 05:01 PM
Ya, just knowing how Parcells is, I think we both would agree he would never leak who he really wants. Any Hawks news you have heard wouold be great. Im 2 hours out of Seattle, but the guys down here suck as far as rumors go ...................

ckparrothead
02-01-2010, 05:15 PM
I'll keep my ears open. Sometimes Boomer will hear something totally random like who the Bills will take.

ZachThomas76
02-01-2010, 05:19 PM
I'll keep my ears open. Sometimes Boomer will hear something totally random like who the Bills will take.

To me Derrick Morgan makes sense, as I could see them getting rid of Kerney. I think its McShay that was talking them up looking at Clausen or Bradford at 14 if they are there.

ckparrothead
02-01-2010, 05:38 PM
I like Derrick Morgan myself. This is Buffalo though, they rarely make sense nowadays. Look at that hiring process. Ridiculous. They lost all of their assistants, even the ones they wanted to keep, simply because they waited longer than three weeks between firing Jauron and hiring a replacement. The initial short list of names they thought about for the head coaching job included (and I'm not kidding) Jim Haslett and Marc Trestman. Yeah, that's the UFL head coach Haslett, and a CFL coach Trestman (the guy who used to be Miami's QB coach/OC for a year). Then they hire Chan Gailey. All three had been fired as assistant coaches. They wanted them for head coach. I think they're trying to get moved out of town...like they have to disillusion X number of fans before it's safe to go, and they suffered a setback when they fired Jauron because the fans became too jubilant.

Hence THEY will take Taylor Mays. Mwahaha.

ZachThomas76
02-01-2010, 05:56 PM
All I know is once again the Pats have a tonne of picks, and it pisses me off. They will get a major infusion of talent onto that defense. Not good.

ckparrothead
02-01-2010, 06:09 PM
I swear if the Dolphins became as good as they are at trading present picks for future picks, within a few years we would have a plethora of picks just like the Patriots always do.

It's arbitrage, but the NFL is stuck on the notion that a 2nd rounder today is worth a 1st rounder tomorrow. The Patriots have figured out that arbitrage, they've reflected it in all their dealings since like 2002, and this is why every year they have a ton of picks.

hooshoops
02-01-2010, 06:18 PM
the pats won't be stockpiling talent if they keep drafting players like ron brace in the middle of round 2...i don't know when i've seen a more overrated and purely 1 dimensional nose get so much hype...really

Boomer
02-01-2010, 07:29 PM
any other names "you fine folks" are hearing???

Betty Rubble. Sting. And Kato Kaelin.

Boomer
02-01-2010, 07:34 PM
I'll keep my ears open. Sometimes Boomer will hear something totally random like who the Bills will take.

Is this Willis McGahee related?

Boomer
02-01-2010, 07:48 PM
Ya, just knowing how Parcells is, I think we both would agree he would never leak who he really wants. Any Hawks news you have heard wouold be great. Im 2 hours out of Seattle, but the guys down here suck as far as rumors go ...................

Listen dude, there are a billion internet draft wannabes and stuff like that. Chris (CK) and I are just two in that endless pond. Suffice to say that becasue we've done this for a while, in the end, even a busted clock is wrong twice a day and when we've been right, often times it's because we've gotten a wink or a nod. Actually that's rubbish. I've never had a wink or a nod with regards the draft and I'm not sure Chris has, suffice to say you get my point.

You'll find a few people trying to run us down every once in a while and that's fine too. It's the draft after all and even the best get it wrong so badly that they lose their jobs. We're only truly accountable to ourselves. Yep, we can be sanctamonious every once in a while - Chris is a lot actually - but each year rumbles round and each year we crack on with what we're doing. We're ordinary fellas with normal jobs and I wouldn't leave my day job to be a scout anyway even if asked, which I won't anyway, but you get my drift.

Anyway, the long and the short of it is that we know a couple of people. They are about as connected as anyone on a public fan forum is going to get. Just occasionally we get some information, but generally when we get it, we know that it's solid. As Chris mentioned earlier on in this very thread, we were told that Miami had been discussing Odrick internally and was one of a few names that the team were high on coming off the back of the season. You only have to check to look at the Sun Sentinel draft blogs for last season to see the pre draft pimpathon surrounding Sean Smith and I will happily show you the emails that I sent in the run up tro the 44th pick saying that the selection would be Pat White. Hell it was printed in the Sentinel the following Tuesday.

We don't make out that we're connected, that we have the ear of Jeff Ireland. I don't think CK's even been to Ireland. But we've done this a long time as I think I rambled about, about ten minutes ago and both of us know media people, NFL scouts, coaches, etc. We've both been asked to work in the past for good scouting people, myself with Frank Coyle, Chris scouting cubic zirconia for Kays Jewellers.

But seriously, no matter what you hear, we don't post stuff to:

a) play Billy Big Bollocks
b) make it seem like we're geniuses and every one else isn't even though it seems like that because at the end of the day, I still get up and go to work Tuesday thru Saturday, as does Chris and none of that work involves hip dipping, correct hand placement, forty times, nice bubbles or fluid backpedals.
c) And what we post is an opinion, just like the opinions of millions of draft fans out there. But the fact that we've been doing it for a while and spend hundreds and hundreds of hours doing this as a hobby means you probably can trust us.

Unless it's a skinny WR/KR/PR/former CB from Ohio State because that's a mulligan.

Take it easy
B

LikeUntoGod
02-01-2010, 07:56 PM
I consider it all mental masturbation.

But if it feels good, makes you happy and does not hurt anyone then so be it....:woot:

Boomer
02-01-2010, 07:58 PM
At no point when doing this do I feel the back of my jeans tightening.

LikeUntoGod
02-01-2010, 08:04 PM
At no point when doing this do I feel the back of my jeans tightening.

Admit it, you know you get a little tingle.........:facepalm:

(it is why I said "mental")

Boomer
02-01-2010, 08:13 PM
Is it wrong to say that I'm tenting right now?

After all, I've just put on a selection of Zane Beadles's finest moments.

Mr. Magoo
02-01-2010, 09:43 PM
Well I personally hope it goes without saying how much 99.9% of Dolphins fans appreciate the work of people like CK, Boomer, Conuficius, hooshoops, TedSlimm and everyone else who puts in the time to do their own scouting and share their insights with the rest of us. But in case it doesn't, allow me to say on behalf of that great silent majority: Thank You.

There are, of course, hundreds of Draftniks out there, but very few focus on the Dolphins and their needs, and I know that I for one appreciate the talents of the above, especially the guys at Universal Draft. I know that I've always loved the draft and have done my best to be well informed and watch every one since 1999. ****, I remember back thinking Giovanni Carmazzi would be a good QB. Oops!

The thing I think it's important to remember is that no talent evaluator is the be-all, end-all. Everybody has certain things they look for. Randy Mueller -- it's speed. Parcells loves size and strength. The trick for a franchise is to have a GM and a coach who agree on what's important.

For me, someone who loves the draft but doesn't really have the time to do enough of my own scouting, I try to pay attention to just a few people who I know and have come to trust rather than just reading everything form every jackass out there with a DVR and a notebook. It's important to know where people are coming from in their evaluations. I personally have always believed that perspective was more important than knowledge, and the only way to have the correct perspective on any piece of knowledge you obtain is to know where and who it came from.

To varying degrees, about varying things, for my money the people above have earned the right to have their opinions listened to by over the long term having proved themselves conscientous and, now and then, right about things. For that I thank them sincerely. And I hope they continue to keep it up.

One day, I hope we'll all have access to coaches tape. What a boon that would be to fans everywhere!

ckparrothead
02-01-2010, 10:37 PM
Actually that's rubbish. I've never had a wink or a nod with regards the draft and I'm not sure Chris has, suffice to say you get my point.

When you say that, it sounds sexual for some reason. Damn anglish.


We've both been asked to work in the past for good scouting people, myself with Frank Coyle, Chris scouting cubic zirconia for Kays Jewellers.

You're getting predictable. I may make a reference to your scouting pubic man-bonia.


I still get up and go to work Tuesday thru Saturday, as does Chris and none of that work involves ... nice bubbles or fluid backpedals.

I guess you're off the clock during bathroom break.

hooshoops
02-01-2010, 10:52 PM
Is it wrong to say that I'm tenting right now?

After all, I've just put on a selection of Zane Beadles's finest moments.

does beadles look better to you as a tackle or as a guard??? i'm trying to figure that out myself...

ck??? slimm??? etc???

hooshoops
02-01-2010, 10:58 PM
i was thinking guard myself...but am i mistaken or was he not an all american tackle this year???

Pinkboy
02-01-2010, 11:00 PM
I know the stuff I heard before the Senior B, although I haven't watched him closely before the senior B week.

But he looked awful all week. Looked very slow and weak.

Don't know if he practiced injured or what. But he looked WAY out of his league. He was getting murdered on a daily basis. In all phases

hooshoops
02-01-2010, 11:02 PM
I know the stuff I heard before the Senior B, although I haven't watched him closely before the senior B week.

But he looked awful all week. Looked very slow and weak.

Don't know if he practiced injured or what. But he looked WAY out of his league. He was getting murdered on a daily basis.

yeah he was no doubt...i just wonder about a kick inside...but i'm not sure he's the kind of power inside player that we would consider anyways...unlike a john jerry who i think we'd be all over

Pinkboy
02-01-2010, 11:04 PM
John Jerry = impressive

yes

hooshoops
02-01-2010, 11:07 PM
John Jerry = impressive

yes

and versatile...and this regime loves versatile olinemen...he's like garner who i thought played very well all things considered in that he can handle right tackle and offensive guard...

i know i'd like to have john jerry very much...

I am Bane
02-02-2010, 01:41 AM
if Ordick is being loved by the fins, i am happy. he can hold his ground, he has solid hands, and can really push the pocket but keep it contained....

not sure where he is listed draft wise though.

other guys i want to start looking into though at NT is... Geno Atkins, and Alex Carrington (HUGE POWER GUY)... jsut to add to some names already stated!!!

I am Bane
02-02-2010, 01:44 AM
Beadles is not a guy i want to draft in, looks slow, looks unagressive, and seems to not handle the speed like many talented OL struggle with at the next level.

OG- Mike Iupati is the real deal if you want to discuss a spot, and i bet many of you know of him by now!!! he is extremely aggressive, has great leverage and feet, and anchors in.... i would not personally want him at tackle like some have stated, he just does so unbelievably well within the interior, compared to in space!!!




does beadles look better to you as a tackle or as a guard??? i'm trying to figure that out myself...

ck??? slimm??? etc???

Boomer
02-02-2010, 07:30 AM
The Beadles thing was a joke. ;)

TedSlimmJr
02-02-2010, 08:22 AM
Beadles would look good on some teams practice squad...for now..

Odrick and Carrington are 5-techs....not nose tackles.......

Geno Atkins is a 3-tech or a UT in a 4-3.....not a nose tackle..

..that's all I have to add here.....carry on..

hooshoops
02-02-2010, 09:47 AM
beadles is garbage...duly noted

HawkDolphan
02-12-2010, 07:29 PM
With all of the people on here posting about "need" vs bpa, isn't it a bit premature to talk about what we'll need on draft day until after the FA period? I mean, why talk about an ILB if we actually sign Dansby. Why worry about Dez Bryant if we can sign Anquan Boldin? I don't think either of those FA signings is likely, but it would sure change the "need" for us, wouldn't it?

Having said that, there is no way we take a WR with the first pick. Look at the Colts: Collier and Garcon were nobodies!! On the opposite side of the field, Colston was a 6th-rounder, IIRC.

This game is won in the trenches. Take Odrick with #12. If he could still be there at #20, trade down and pick up a 3rd rounder, with which you can still get a very good player (Lots of quality LB's in this draft, IMHO). Let's see... Zach Thomas = 4th rounder from Texas tech. JT was a 4th rounder from Akron or Toledo or somewhere. Both will be in the Hall of Fame.

FinAtic8480
04-23-2010, 07:25 AM
I told you sooooooo

Phin19
04-23-2010, 07:41 AM
I told you sooooooo

Good call

How would you grade the value we get from him at #28 overall? Is it a reach? a steal? I don't kow much about him.

Ricky4Life
04-23-2010, 07:43 AM
Good call Fin.

HurriPhin
04-23-2010, 08:02 AM
I told you sooooooo

:up: :bowdown:

Dolfan2364
04-23-2010, 08:11 AM
I like the Pick.... IMHO; Odrick, Starks and Langford will be rotated at DE with Starks more than likely being rotated into the NT position with Soliai. Merling wil be moved to SOLB just like thay did with Matt Roth. Have faith in the FO, they have forgotten more about football than most of us know.

Of course this could all change with the next pick, if they get a NT (CODY)

Locke
04-23-2010, 08:12 AM
I remember this thread.

It looks like Ireland and Parcells got the guy they wanted initially and recovered a second round pick from the Marshall trade in the process. Oh, and that pick is a few slots higher than the original. How could this scenario have gone any better...?

al711
04-23-2010, 08:25 AM
I agree...so far so good...games are won and lost in the trenches...let's hope the 40th is a need pick,NT,OLB or S at least, but, what do I know I'm just a fan...

ArmyFin7
04-23-2010, 08:30 AM
I dont think a NT will be taken anytime before rd. 4 or 5......Odrick will battle with everyone else for snaps on the inside.

Digital
04-23-2010, 08:50 AM
I'm fine with the Odrick pick. He is very good and has a good motor as well. He has a touch of pass rush ability and can be the passing down NT if you like. Solid citizen and was good value where we got him. I wanted Eric Berry, but we really had no shot at moving up to 5 to get him. I would have selected Earl Thomas at 12, but he isn't the prototype this regime wants and they tend not to select FS's that high anyway. We clearly have a need for OLB's, but honestly, I didn't like any of them at 12 for one reason or another. In the 20's, fine, second round, good, but at 12 I wanted a sure-fire talent, and IMHO, all of these OLB's have warts.

Trading down, grabbing a very high 2nd rounder was a good move. Odrick at 28 is a good deal on a guy who will be a hit. This lets us consider a true NT like Cody, or one of those warted OLB's like Kindle or Worilds, or one of the 2nd tier FS's. Heck, if we abandon need all together, Gronkowski looks like a good TE pick also.

Grats to all those who predicted him and those who noted the Fin's interest early.

I must admit, I am curious though whether he might also be able to play NT. I kinda think he could.

FinAtic8480
04-23-2010, 08:55 AM
Odrick was a guy that many had him going to Cleveland at No. 7, they supposebly loved him, but I don't think they could have passed on secondary. The kid is a high motor player, he is a 3 down player. He will play at DE in run situation and play NT in passing situations.

While some might disagree he reminds me of Ratliff. I love the pick and have been saying his name since the Senior Bowl.

X-Pacolypse
04-23-2010, 01:50 PM
Odrick was a guy that many had him going to Cleveland at No. 7, they supposebly loved him, but I don't think they could have passed on secondary. The kid is a high motor player, he is a 3 down player. He will play at DE in run situation and play NT in passing situations.

While some might disagree he reminds me of Ratliff. I love the pick and have been saying his name since the Senior Bowl.

You da man.