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munchkin
01-29-2010, 12:18 AM
Ya, I know it shows I'm a new poster-but I lost my old password and got a new email.

Anyways,
I've been studying tape of R.Mcclain recently and honestly don't see anything fantastic about him. He looks like a solid-unspectacular MLB with better than average coverage skills (for a mlb)

I then a watched some film on Maualuga and Laurinaitis from last year to compare. Mcclain reminds me a bit of Laranitis but with better lateral movement but doesn't get off blocks as well.

Remember, both those 2 backers were projected top ten picks as soon as the college football season was over, and both fell to the top of the 2nd round.

Anybody see something SO spectacular about Mcclain to take him at # 12 in the first rd ? If so, I'd like to hear it. I sure don't see P.Willis when I watch tape of Mcclain.

TedSlimmJr
01-29-2010, 12:31 AM
Laurinaitis went about where I thought he would.....Maualuga too.....at some point you have to stop buying into the hype surrounding many of these players and evaluate them for yourself....but you have to know what you're looking at or it's a waste of time anyway....

Sounds like you've been able to do that with this post...

The first thing you have to do is stop comparing linebackers to Patrick Willis....or they'll all look like 2nd round picks.....

Strange how I never heard all this love for Patrick Willis before he started dominating in the NFL.....he's the best LB I've scouted and was convinced he was the player that Miami should take at #9...

McClain isn't Patrick Willis.....he's a LOT bigger than Patrick Willis.....and McClain is still only a junior....I think people tend to forget this...

The next time a linebacker comes out of college with Willis' credentials and production and runs a sub 4.4....then he can be compared to Patrick Willis...

You're not going to see very many linebackers with McClain's size/speed/instincts/football IQ/ and playmaking ability that projects as well to the NFL as he does....you just wont...

He gets off blocks extremely well....by not allowing himself to be blocked and let an offensive lineman gain control of him in the first place....

If Rolando McClain is overrated...then there's not a player in the draft that isn't...

greenmiamicat
01-29-2010, 12:31 AM
Can't wait to read the responses....

munchkin
01-29-2010, 12:52 AM
Compare film of B.Spikes and R.Mcclain

Mcclain is better, but not by much. Spikes is a far superior blitzer, Mcclain is more well rounded. Yet fans see Mcclain as a sure fire top 12 pick and B.Spikes as an early 2nd rounder. I'd take Mcclain over Spikes for the fins D any day, but the argument could be made that Spikes is more of an impact player from the same position.

ChambersWI
01-29-2010, 12:55 AM
hell I've been saying Laurinitis was overrated since his sophomore year. He made a living at OSU jumping on piles. He's not a bad player, but he got overrated cause he got 5 INTs his sophomore year (whith about 3 of them being flukes).

McClain is not the same type of player as Little Animal. Little Animal cannot get off blocks. He's a smart player, but he struggled in space.

McClain is also not Rey Rey. Physically, Rey Rey could become a very dominant LB, but what hurt him was his immaturity and his freelancing (he just kind of did whatever he wanted at SC). If Rey Rey could was able to stay in his assignments, he'd be on a 3-4 team.

TedSlimmJr
01-29-2010, 01:00 AM
We've already done that ad naseum....Spikes is a better blitzer and and more of a crash-and-burn on a block type linebacker....but he also spends more time on the ground than McClain does and overrunning plays....

McClain has some of the best instincts a linebacker can have....and he's a film junkie...a coach on the field....

I think he plays sideline to sideline better than Spikes....Spikes plays better North and South.....McClain is better in coverage IMO...

I've never had a 1st round grade on Spikes...not even last year...I would always have preferred McClain....

I believe Spikes is still a good player and will be a good player in the NFL....but I think McClain will be better....and most definitely worth a top 12 selection...

JT-forpresident
01-29-2010, 01:02 AM
hell I've been saying Laurinitis was overrated since his sophomore year. He made a living at OSU jumping on piles. He's not a bad player, but he got overrated cause he got 5 INTs his sophomore year (whith about 3 of them being flukes).

McClain is not the same type of player as Little Animal. Little Animal cannot get off blocks. He's a smart player, but he struggled in space.

McClain is also not Rey Rey. Physically, Rey Rey could become a very dominant LB, but what hurt him was his immaturity and his freelancing (he just kind of did whatever he wanted at SC). If Rey Rey could was able to stay in his assignments, he'd be on a 3-4 team.


i don't dig this... a lot of 4-3 run 2 gap schemes and require responsible linebackers. much like a 3-4 who invertedly can run a gap control scheme (a la miami) ... this point makes no sense IMO


rey rey needed to be surrounded by responsible linebackers, a la channing crowder when he played besides zach thomas ... he could pretty much pitch himself everywhere, he knew zach would clean things up

munchkin
01-29-2010, 01:06 AM
To get drafted in top 12 at ILB, you have to be a serious impact player. Not just a solid steady ILB. If Fins were drafting #20 overall, I'd be rooting big time for Mcclain, but at #12 Fins need an impact player. Get a solid ILB in the later rounds

newlownorder
01-29-2010, 01:11 AM
McClain is as overrated as Peyton Manning............

JT-forpresident
01-29-2010, 01:13 AM
i don't dig this... a lot of 4-3 run 2 gap schemes and require responsible linebackers. much like a 3-4 who invertedly can run a gap control scheme (a la miami) ... this point makes no sense IMO


rey rey needed to be surrounded by responsible linebackers, a la channing crowder when he played besides zach thomas ... he could pretty much pitch himself everywhere, he knew zach would clean things up



as for mcClain... i'd say he's more of a zach thomas than a rey maualuga... meaning that he'll RARELY miss an assignment, and effectively clean things up

JT-forpresident
01-29-2010, 01:14 AM
McClain is as overrated as Peyton Manning............

:lol: NYJUNC, is that you ?

TedSlimmJr
01-29-2010, 01:17 AM
To get drafted in top 12 at ILB, you have to be a serious impact player. Not just a solid steady ILB. If Fins were drafting #20 overall, I'd be rooting big time for Mcclain, but at #12 Fins need an impact player. Get a solid ILB in the later rounds


That's the difference between McClain and Spikes.....McClain is the best "playmaking" linebacker in the draft....and that's why he most likely won't even be on the board when Miami picks...

I've been watching the kid since high school...I know what he's about....

The thing that he has most in common with Willis is his background off the field....they've both overcome some tough times in their life to get where they are and understand the dedication, hard work, and extra preperation it takes to be the best player they can be on the field...

munchkin
01-29-2010, 01:25 AM
The Mcclain bandwagon is gonna have people jumping off pretty soon. Last year, in this same forum, If you posted that you were hoping Maualuga would fall to the fins at the #25 pick, you would get ridiculed big time, Maualuga was supposed to be a surefire top 15 pick. (he ended up getting drafted #38)

It's the same every year. The star power of what a player accomplished in college fades as the college season gets further behind us. Mcclains star will fade over the next few months and fans will realize that solid ILB's with great intangibles don't get picked at the top of the draft. Besides Fullbacks, Guards and Centers, ILB's get the least respect when it comes to the draft. History shows it.
While Mcclain is as solid of a prospect as they come, he doesn't play an impact position and he's not an elite impact player

TedSlimmJr
01-29-2010, 01:57 AM
The only people fooled by the Maualuga hype were the one's who subscribed to it in the first place......and only watched the highlight clips of his "big hits"....

I was never fooled by it....you can dig back to some of the Maualuga threads around here last year and see for yourself....

I dont think NFL teams fell for it either....

McClain is the antithesis of Maualuga.....what allows you to be an "impact" player and "playmaker" is the things that McClain possesses that Maualuga didn't....

Benchpressing a Buick and running like the wind isn't what makes a playmaker (see Vernon Gholston)....

What makes a playmaker is being able to combine rare physical traits with the instincts and work ethic it takes to gain an edge on your opponent......instincts and dedication to film study is what allowed players like Zach Thomas to be "playmakers" at the ILB position....and had nowhere near the physical tools that McClain has...

Rey Lewis isn't Rey Lewis because of his rather mediocre height/weight combination or 40 time.....it's his instincts and work ethic that will put him in the HOF...

While it is true that inside linebacker isn't an overvalued position on draft day....(similar to safety, etc.)....it is important to know when an impact ILB is staring you in the face instead of a 175 pound "playmaker" with track speed....for example...

Maualuga was the 3rd USC linebacker off the board because he was the 3rd best to begin with....

munchkin
01-29-2010, 02:13 AM
Clearly the NFL was not fooled by the overhyped Maualuga, he went in the 2nd round.
Ray Lewis was a beast at Miami U, Ray Lewis was a great ILB prospect. Ray Lewis got drafted 26th overall.

#1dolphinsfan
01-29-2010, 02:16 AM
McClain is no Ray Lewis he isnt the biggest playmaker either but he is a very solid ILB and i would love to have him in miami

munchkin
01-29-2010, 02:23 AM
I would love to have him in Miami also, we need a serious upgrade at the position. But the 12th pick in the draft is too high for a solid ILB.

TedSlimmJr
01-29-2010, 02:23 AM
Clearly the NFL was not fooled by the overhyped Maualuga, he went in the 2nd round.
Ray Lewis was a beast at Miami U, Ray Lewis was a great ILB prospect. Ray Lewis got drafted 26th overall.


Lewis college career is very similar to McClains....they both entered the draft as juniors....Lewis tackle totals his final two years exceed McClains....which it's supposed to be due to the different style of defenses...

They were both 3 year starters...both made All American as freshman and every year after.....Interception's, TFL's, PBU's, etc., etc...is very similar...

He fell on some teams draft boards because he was 6'1"...not 6'4"...

Lord Of Miami
01-29-2010, 03:49 AM
McClains is a better prospect then Ray Lewis was coming out of college, Ray wasn't just the 26 pick that year their were 3 LB'ers picked before him.


BUT i've heard one GM call McClain " Soft " and no one would ever say that about Ray Lewis, and just because he's a better prospect doesn't mean anything once he starts his 1st game in the NFL.

I think McClain will be one of the better ILB'ers in the NFL but i don't see him being what Ray Lewis has been for 14 years now.

Pinkboy
01-29-2010, 04:29 AM
People need to understand their defensive scheme before judging. People need to keep in mind they didn't ask McClain to be this big blitzing middle linebacker and shooting the gaps. The Alabama defense funneled plays to him and asked him to read and react.

So if you don't see him running up gaps right after every snap it was because that is not what the scheme allowed him to do.

When McClain was asked to shoot gaps and attack from the middle, last year, and in a small number of instances this season, he was very good at it.

So you have to pick your spots when judging.

They asked him to do it a little more last year in 2008 though. But this year he rarely did because they didn't ask him to. So I think people get too caught up and peg him into a hole when they don't see him making a million attacking plays in every game when they asked him to be a read and react linebacker.

It's all in the scheme. And obviously the scheme worked because they were the best defense in college football.

Clipse
01-29-2010, 04:36 AM
:lol: at this thread.

justdev7
01-29-2010, 05:43 AM
He's a great blitzer, solid in coverage, and great against the run, what else are linebackers supposed to do?

RobertHorry
01-29-2010, 08:44 AM
We need Mcclain. Great player.

skipp2myloo13
01-29-2010, 09:05 AM
will he be overrated when the Chiefs pick him number 5 or when Denver snags him right before us? Or when he wins DROY? Or is a stud in the league for years to come?

SamIam
01-29-2010, 10:19 AM
Mcclain will not be drafted until late in the first round... just watch.

Namor
01-29-2010, 10:42 AM
This is just silly!

bert
01-29-2010, 10:44 AM
lewis is so much more explosive than mcclain its a joke.lewis's closing speed is unmatched.it's not even a fair compasison.a top 5 all time lb against a undrafted ,unproven ilb.here are willis stat's not 4.4 but fast http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/draft/430383. here is my sleeper olb sapp a junior is bigger and faster.after the combine this guy will be shooting up the boards.i have seen him in drafts going to the pats and jets.his knee must grade out at 100%.if we trade down this is my sleeper mid 1st round pick.some love him some dont.http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66339&draftyear=2010&genpos=OLB

rev kev
01-29-2010, 11:05 AM
Ya, I know it shows I'm a new poster-but I lost my old password and got a new email.

Anyways,
I've been studying tape of R.Mcclain recently and honestly don't see anything fantastic about him. He looks like a solid-unspectacular MLB with better than average coverage skills (for a mlb)

I then a watched some film on Maualuga and Laurinaitis from last year to compare. Mcclain reminds me a bit of Laranitis but with better lateral movement but doesn't get off blocks as well.

Remember, both those 2 backers were projected top ten picks as soon as the college football season was over, and both fell to the top of the 2nd round.

Anybody see something SO spectacular about Mcclain to take him at # 12 in the first rd ? If so, I'd like to hear it. I sure don't see P.Willis when I watch tape of Mcclain.

I signed in three times since 2003 too... :lol:

I completely agree that Cain isn't Willis..., me thinks Cain is the pick for this D if he is available..., there were other reasons James L and Ray M fell that far..., ILBs who can make a difference are actually hard to find... I thought we found one in Channing (as a Soph) but he hit his ceiling..., even if Cain ddi hit his ceiling (as a Jr) Cain does about everything better than Channing..., can we keep blockers off any of our ILBs remains to be seen... I'm not a believer in Solai as a starter - he needs to be subbed

RockyMtnPhinfan
01-29-2010, 11:07 AM
I would like to ask this question:
Doesn't Mount Cody, who dominated the college ranks and reportedly can take up two and sometimes even three blockers, make McClain look better than he truly may be? I am not discounting him or denying him either way. Just trying to look at all the angles to see if he would be a great value at #12

rev kev
01-29-2010, 11:09 AM
McClains is a better prospect then Ray Lewis was coming out of college, Ray wasn't just the 26 pick that year their were 3 LB'ers picked before him.


BUT i've heard one GM call McClain " Soft " and no one would ever say that about Ray Lewis, and just because he's a better prospect doesn't mean anything once he starts his 1st game in the NFL.

I think McClain will be one of the better ILB'ers in the NFL but i don't see him being what Ray Lewis has been for 14 years now.

Yes and could be coack speak as teams are jostling for certain players to fall to them even as Bp puts up flares about LBs and then chooses Vontae...

Cain is not likley to be Ray L or P Willis..., but he is a fine piece of the puzzle and Henne won't be Marino but Henne has the composure to go the distance...

rev kev
01-29-2010, 11:13 AM
I would like to ask this question:
Doesn't Mount Cody, who dominated the college ranks and reportedly can take up two and sometimes even three blockers, make McClain look better than he truly may be? I am not discounting him or denying him either way. Just trying to look at all the angles to see if he would be a great value at #12

Yes as addressed by Greyboy a few posts earlier the schemme called for Cain read and react to swallow the ball-carrier - wrap and make tackles and that's what he did..., look I thought the 4 USC Lbs were kind over-hyped last year because they all played together, and their D has Mayes but each appears to be a "player" in his own right..., and so I must concede that their success at USC was not all based on the overall D...

TedSlimmJr
01-29-2010, 11:20 AM
I would like to ask this question:
Doesn't Mount Cody, who dominated the college ranks and reportedly can take up two and sometimes even three blockers, make McClain look better than he truly may be? I am not discounting him or denying him either way. Just trying to look at all the angles to see if he would be a great value at #12


McClain played over half of his snaps while Cody wasn't even on the field...

McClain was making the freshman All American Team while Terrence Cody was playing JUCO football....his statistics across the board (particularly "splash" plays) have been very consistent throughout his 3 years with or without Cody....

Terrence Cody has never made Rolando McClain.......McClain made that defense one of the best there's ever been in college football...

Cody has absolutely nothing to do with McClain's dedication to film study, getting everyone lined up correctly, calling audibles and virtually calling his own game defensively and being an extension of Nick Saban on the field...

fgrocker
01-29-2010, 11:25 AM
JL had a great rookie season in the NFL. McClain is projected to go higher because of his extremely high work ethic and the way he can be a defensive leader because of his uncanny ability to read an offense. He is one of a few guys who can change a game from a non-playmaking position. Plus, we have a desperate need for a stud ILB. If we don't get one early in the draft, we'd better go hard after Dansby.

ChambersWI
01-29-2010, 01:53 PM
McClain played over half of his snaps while Cody wasn't even on the field...

McClain was making the freshman All American Team while Terrence Cody was playing JUCO football....his statistics across the board (particularly "splash" plays) have been very consistent throughout his 3 years with or without Cody....

Terrence Cody has never made Rolando McClain.......McClain made that defense one of the best there's ever been in college football...

Cody has absolutely nothing to do with McClain's dedication to film study, getting everyone lined up correctly, calling audibles and virtually calling his own game defensively and being an extension of Nick Saban on the field...

Plus, Cody was never really a truely dominant player. In 08 he had a stretch where he was dominant but since then he was a good college player on a very good defense.

I'll also agree with McClain being Saban on the field. McClain is one of the best LB prospects in recent memory at reading an offense. The entire Bama coaching staff even admits that the last 2 years McClain's audible calls saved them in many instances.

We gotta stop comparing prospects though. Rey Lewis is a HOFer but he was far from the perfect prospect. Patrick Willis also had question marks despite his physical credentials.

If you look at something enough, you will find a reason to hate it even if it's small (see Jake Long giving up 1 sack to Vernon Gholston in college, now all of a sudden he can't play LT in the pros)

NorFlaFin
01-29-2010, 02:14 PM
Ask Ray L. have valuable a 350lbs. NT is to the 3-4 defense.

munchkin
01-29-2010, 02:59 PM
So if the draft plays out the way it usually does, and the impact players at premium positions come off the board first, they way they usually do. We may have to draft a solid ILB with the 12th pick.

Suh, Mccoy, and 1 more premium DT (probably D.Williams, Price or Odrick) -3
Bradford, Clausen- 2
Haden-1
Okung and 2 of the three other Tackles (williams,davis or baluga)-3
Berry-1
D.Morgan, and 1 more pass rusher.(pierre-paul, Kindle, Sapp or dunlap)-2
D.Bryant -1


Thats about 13 premium prospects at high impact positions

Markcalius
01-29-2010, 03:13 PM
Ask Ray L. have valuable a 350lbs. NT is to the 3-4 defense.

Have you been saying it that way your whole life? That's interesting.

Reminds me of the time I saw somebody on here write "Pre-Madonna."

ckparrothead
01-29-2010, 03:38 PM
I think some people need to watch what Rey Maualuga and James Laurinaitis did this year. They were both very good players this year.

j-off-her-doll
01-29-2010, 03:52 PM
I don't see McClain as a great value at #12 - not for us, anyway. I think he's good. I just don't see him as the impact player you want at #12. I'd take my chances with Spikes or Weatherspoon (probably won't happen for Weatherspoon) falling to the 2nd or another ILB in the 3rd. I'd MUCH rather have Thomas, Spiller, or Pierre-Paul.

arsenal
01-29-2010, 03:55 PM
i dont know if hes "value" at 12... but i put him SO much higher than Spikes... i really dont feel like they should be in the same convo...

people wanna talk about Mcclain, Spikes and everyone else... id just say Mcclain and everyone else...

id be happy if we drafted him at 12

Clipse
01-29-2010, 04:08 PM
I would like to ask this question:
Doesn't Mount Cody, who dominated the college ranks and reportedly can take up two and sometimes even three blockers, make McClain look better than he truly may be? I am not discounting him or denying him either way. Just trying to look at all the angles to see if he would be a great value at #12
Considering Cody can't stay on the field at his weight, thus McClain playing most of his snaps with Cody off the field, no.

ChambersWI
01-29-2010, 04:12 PM
I think some people need to watch what Rey Maualuga and James Laurinaitis did this year. They were both very good players this year.

oh I watched and I agree they were good, but coming out of college they were very overrated. Little Animal was hyped to the moon after his sophomore year, and while he was a solid LB at OSU, he really wasn't that dominant. He was a stat padder and a pile jumper. Coach Spags did a great job using him though. Rey Rey didn't develop as well as he should have at USC, but he's still a good player. I don't think he'll be an ILB in a 3-4 though. I think he'll end up staying as a SLB in a 4-3.

Brian Cushing on the other hand was underrated from what I remember, everybody knew he had talent but injuries (and steroids) were concerns. I also don't think anybody thought he'd be as well rounded and as big of a difference maker as he was. Same with Clay Matthews, but being coached up by Kevin Greene can't hurt.

j-off-her-doll
01-29-2010, 04:30 PM
i dont know if hes "value" at 12... but i put him SO much higher than Spikes... i really dont feel like they should be in the same convo...

people wanna talk about Mcclain, Spikes and everyone else... id just say Mcclain and everyone else...

id be happy if we drafted him at 12

I think Spikes fits better in Nolan's system. He's a better attacking ILB - McClain is better and reading and reacting. Aren't you glad PP isn't our DC no mo'?

ckparrothead
01-29-2010, 04:43 PM
I don't see how a guy was "overrated" as a first round prospect in college, if he ends up very good in the pros. The fact that Laurinaitis went in the second round and then had the 4th most solo tackles (not counting assists since you believe him to be a "pile jumper") of any linebacker in the NFL in his rookie year shows that he was, in fact, "underrated".

ZachThomas76
01-29-2010, 04:43 PM
Slimm, I agree McClain is an excellent linebacker. Given that most agree he isn't the greatest blitzer in the world, how would you feel with him lining up beside Crowder? That means no qb pressure from your inside backers and puts alot of pressure on whoever is playing OLB. In a perfect world I suppose they sign Dansby and draft McClain, and have Crowder as a backup.

munchkin
01-29-2010, 05:23 PM
I don't see how a guy was "overrated" as a first round prospect in college, if he ends up very good in the pros. The fact that Laurinaitis went in the second round and then had the 4th most solo tackles (not counting assists since you believe him to be a "pile jumper") of any linebacker in the NFL in his rookie year shows that he was, in fact, "underrated".


Overrated as a potential prospect. Overrated as to where he is projected to be drafted. I've said all along that Mcclain is as solid a ILB prospect as they come. But a solid ILB prospect in the top 10? That is where I believe he is overrated

j-off-her-doll
01-29-2010, 05:26 PM
Slimm, I agree McClain is an excellent linebacker. Given that most agree he isn't the greatest blitzer in the world, how would you feel with him lining up beside Crowder? That means no qb pressure from your inside backers and puts alot of pressure on whoever is playing OLB. In a perfect world I suppose they sign Dansby and draft McClain, and have Crowder as a backup.

In a perfect world they'd make better use of the #12 pick.

hooshoops
01-29-2010, 05:30 PM
in a perfect world channing crowder is no longer on the roster :hi5:

JT-forpresident
01-29-2010, 05:31 PM
in a perfect world channing crowder is no longer on the roster :hi5:


he's not that bad of a player...

but he's a part of the problem more than he is a part of the solution, if you ask me ...

hooshoops
01-29-2010, 05:34 PM
he's not that bad of a player...

but he's a part of the problem more than he is a part of the solution, if you ask me ...

what he have...53 tackles this year??? garbage

i keep waiting for this guy to develop into this player that everyone keeps saying he's on the verge of...

it's not happening...EVER

j-off-her-doll
01-29-2010, 05:38 PM
what he have...53 tackles this year??? garbage

i keep waiting for this guy to develop into this player that everyone keeps saying he's on the verge of...

it's not happening...EVER

Crowder looked dynamic at times under Saban. I'm interested to see how he improves under Nolan. I think he will a fair amount. Our D in general was rarely decent - let alone dynamic - under PP.

hooshoops
01-29-2010, 05:44 PM
Crowder looked dynamic at times under Saban. I'm interested to see how he improves under Nolan. I think he will a fair amount. Our D in general was rarely decent - let alone dynamic - under PP.

i wouldn't hold my breath if i was you...

we'll see

ckparrothead
01-29-2010, 06:05 PM
This is where we just see different things. I think Channing Crowder is a pretty fine linebacker, and my perception of people that keep criticizing him is that they do so simply because he doesn't get sacks or interceptions.

Rolando McClain is not a better blitzer than Channing Crowder. Might be worse, in fact. So...is he going to end up being called garbage as well?

Crowder makes a lot of plays at or behind the line of scrimmage and when he's healthy, he's a decent cover guy. He's smart as hell, too.

hooshoops
01-29-2010, 06:10 PM
This is where we just see different things. I think Channing Crowder is a pretty fine linebacker, and my perception of people that keep criticizing him is that they do so simply because he doesn't get sacks or interceptions.

Rolando McClain is not a better blitzer than Channing Crowder. Might be worse, in fact. So...is he going to end up being called garbage as well?

Crowder makes a lot of plays at or behind the line of scrimmage and when he's healthy, he's a decent cover guy. He's smart as hell, too.

yeah...we do see different things...i count the days til we upgrade him...i really do...i think he has ZERO instincts for the position...

b/t did you see that one pass drop lb drill that mike nolan ran yesterday where the camera was actually on nolan and he had some de's do the drill??? antonio coleman looked dynamite in that rep they showed...and we all know that he can rush the passer

ckparrothead
01-29-2010, 06:14 PM
Antonio Coleman and Jason Worilds. This year when I'm watching players I'm looking at them and saying, why the hell are these guys being tossed to the bottom of the bin? Seriously it's like Worilds is nowhere to be found on everyone's radar, and Coleman is nowhere to be found. Yet I know that these guys have garnered acclaim in the past, and I know they can play football.

Did Coleman look great in LB drills? Because that would just be such a big boost to his stock. At Auburn he almost never played something like a linebacker position, he was always a pass rush guy. He tore up Alabama pretty good in that one game.

hooshoops
01-29-2010, 06:18 PM
they only showed one dang rep cause they were too busy talking about tebow i guess but when the camera panned it antonio coleman was the first guy up after mike nolan went over the drill instruction and i'm telling you he NAILED it...

mayock was like "whoa" when he saw it

i was like wowzers...that guy looked GOOD

and then the camera never came back to it...he's someone we all should watch closely at the combine in lb drills...as far as any other lb drill i don't know...they didn't show any with de's

hooshoops
01-29-2010, 06:24 PM
the best part was mike nolan was looking dead at it and i think he was like "wow" without giving anything away...lol

he also had cameron sheffield and brandon lang over there but i never got to see them on camera...i think another draft site said sheffield looked good in lb drills

considering like you said ck that coleman has never played lb he looked awfully darn smooth to me for a guy taking his first rep in space...

ckparrothead
01-29-2010, 06:36 PM
The Shrine coaches were a bit rigid about having guys switch between positions, which is too bad. I'd have liked to see Greg Hardy do the same, or even do it during the game. After all, you have to know just how good of a player you're passing up "simply" because he's bat sh-t crazy. Heh.

I hope they flip some of these guys during the game, that would be great. Sounds like you stumbled on something that is going to stick in some peoples' minds though.

RobertHorry
01-29-2010, 06:40 PM
This is where we just see different things. I think Channing Crowder is a pretty fine linebacker, and my perception of people that keep criticizing him is that they do so simply because he doesn't get sacks or interceptions.

Rolando McClain is not a better blitzer than Channing Crowder. Might be worse, in fact. So...is he going to end up being called garbage as well?

Crowder makes a lot of plays at or behind the line of scrimmage and when he's healthy, he's a decent cover guy. He's smart as hell, too.


Ah, thank you CK. I am always backing up Crowder on this forum to people who go "Chowder only had 43 tackles" "He's garbage" "He is terrible and I hope he gets cut" "We need to replace him asap". Crowder is extremely smart and knows how line up the defense on almost every play. He doesn't make plays like Patrick Willis or Ray Lewis, or get interceptions or sacks. But he is stout and there is a reason we were top #5 in rushing defense with him in there. He gets too much flack when in fact he is pretty solid to good.

hooshoops
01-29-2010, 06:40 PM
yeah...i think nolan had them do the drill on the day all the scouts primarily had already left but anyone who sees it on tv is gonna be on it...

it's almost like it would have been better if the camera had never shown it...lol

munchkin
01-31-2010, 12:32 AM
It's questionable if Mcclain could outperform Crowder, yet Mcclain had a huge Fin fan base for the 12th pick. The star is fading though. you can feel it. Fans are starting to realize what Mcclain is, a solid ILB. Not 12th pick worthy

hooshoops
01-31-2010, 01:08 AM
"it's questionable if mcclain could outperform crowder"

lol...that might be the wildest thing i've read on here in quite a while...gotta be

kwansolo
01-31-2010, 01:28 AM
I would like to ask this question:
Doesn't Mount Cody, who dominated the college ranks and reportedly can take up two and sometimes even three blockers, make McClain look better than he truly may be? I am not discounting him or denying him either way. Just trying to look at all the angles to see if he would be a great value at #12

Great Question my friend!!! I was thinking the same thing. I think people forget about what a good DL could do for even a average LB.

My updated Mock:

1. Sean Weatherspoon
2. Mardy Gilyard
3. Cam Thomas
4 Jimmy Graham

kwansolo
01-31-2010, 01:40 AM
This is where we just see different things. I think Channing Crowder is a pretty fine linebacker, and my perception of people that keep criticizing him is that they do so simply because he doesn't get sacks or interceptions.

Rolando McClain is not a better blitzer than Channing Crowder. Might be worse, in fact. So...is he going to end up being called garbage as well?

Crowder makes a lot of plays at or behind the line of scrimmage and when he's healthy, he's a decent cover guy. He's smart as hell, too.

CK, I'm not sure why people don't give Crowder the respect he deserves. You would think people would see how valuable he was to the DEF when he was out. IMO he a real solid LB and I'm looking forward for a breakout year from Crowder with Nolan taking over the DEF.

hooshoops
01-31-2010, 01:49 AM
you mean that breakout year from crowder we've been waiting for for like 5 years now...lol

good luck

ckparrothead
01-31-2010, 02:22 AM
Not every player who isn't Keith Bulluck or Patrick Willis deserves to be cut.

Lord Of Miami
01-31-2010, 02:29 AM
It's questionable if Mcclain could outperform Crowder, yet Mcclain had a huge Fin fan base for the 12th pick. The star is fading though. you can feel it. Fans are starting to realize what Mcclain is, a solid ILB. Not 12th pick worthy

Crowder himself said he thinks McClain is going to be a stud in the NFL " So did Ricky, and Brown as well" then he went on to say he'd LOVE to play with along side McClain.

Xeticus
01-31-2010, 03:12 AM
Slimm, I agree McClain is an excellent linebacker. Given that most agree he isn't the greatest blitzer in the world, how would you feel with him lining up beside Crowder? That means no qb pressure from your inside backers and puts alot of pressure on whoever is playing OLB. In a perfect world I suppose they sign Dansby and draft McClain, and have Crowder as a backup.I prefer McClain in the first round and Spikes in the 2nd and Crowder at backup. :)

NorFlaFin
01-31-2010, 11:07 AM
Have you been saying it that way your whole life? That's interesting.

Reminds me of the time I saw somebody on here write "Pre-Madonna."

Conan the Grammarian, is that you? :tongue2:


My point remains the same; a top tier 350lb NT is a difference maker on a 3-4 defense.

flynryan15
01-31-2010, 01:17 PM
McClain would be a great pick up and give us something on defense we don't have. A Field General, look at our ILB's Channing is a joke up to 2009 you could always count on Crowder to make the tackle a yard on the wrong side of the down marker or 5-6 yards down field, this year he couldn't even do that! Torber and Adoylea are so bad and slow in coverage it makes me invent 4 and 5 letter words on Sunday. Non of the 3 blow up a back when he is forced back inside to them and several games Carolina and the second N.E game I saw Crowder jugging and not even trying mean while the RB cuts back for a big gain.

None of that will happen with McClain, he is just 2 football spot and hasa a great motor. Last anyone who say getting hit by a 6'4 260lb is a soft experience. HAHAHAHA well they have obviously never had the pleasure, I have and the last adjective that comes to mind is "SOFT"

SRM
01-31-2010, 01:21 PM
Crowder himself said he thinks McClain is going to be a stud in the NFL " So did Ricky, and Brown as well" then he went on to say he'd LOVE to play with along side McClain.

Channing probably said that because he's tired of being depended on to do his job, so he wants someone to be able to clean up his mistakes again :lol:

dagger151
01-31-2010, 04:22 PM
Being a Gator fan, I get to watch the SEC and knowing Bama was likely going ot run the table, I watch them a lot. McClain is the real deal. He is always around the ball. reminds me of Zach Thomas with his leadership skills QB of the defense. He is better than Zach since he is more athletic but the IQ is there. With that said, if I felt strong that Spikes would be there at #43, I would take DeZ Bryant if he miraculously fell to us ( if DEN takes McClain, we have a shot) or trade down with a team that wants Bryant. Dez is a game changer and we need a deep threat to best utilize Henne.

CJ Spiller would be nice to replace Ronnie/Ricky for this year or next. Anyone agree? What do you think of Dexter Mccluster?

AccordOn13z
01-31-2010, 04:46 PM
This is where we just see different things. I think Channing Crowder is a pretty fine linebacker, and my perception of people that keep criticizing him is that they do so simply because he doesn't get sacks or interceptions.

Rolando McClain is not a better blitzer than Channing Crowder. Might be worse, in fact. So...is he going to end up being called garbage as well?

Crowder makes a lot of plays at or behind the line of scrimmage and when he's healthy, he's a decent cover guy. He's smart as hell, too.

You had me till the whole "he's decent cover guy. He's smart as hell, too." I agree with most of the post but Channing's downside, besides non-existing blitzing capabilities, is that he cant cover well. He's usually on the ground looking up at one of our DB's taking down the RB that just ran past him. He can't cover a TE (but most LB's cant either) but he needs to be able to seal holes and cover laterally better. 1 Interception in how long? A blind squirrel finds a nut faster than Crowder picks a ball. (However, His Brady INT was SICK!!! HAHAHAHAHA!) As for his "smarts" well I dont know the man but as far as how I've heard him talk he is dumber than a sack of rocks.

Channing has big play ability but he's so worried about not making a mistake that he tends to freeze or slow his decisions down a bit. Like a poster pointed out earlier: When Zach was around Channing had flashes of being amazing because he could take a leap and know that Zach was close behind to clean it up. That's what Rolando McClain brings to the table. Zach like qualities. SMART!, Great Decision Making, Hard Hitting, a Student of the Game, Field General all qualities Zach and Rolando share (and coincidentally nothing of which Crowder has).

Rolando is not a Rey Rey type LB that is going to smack you around till you're forced to fumble or throw an INT. Rolando is like Zach in that he'll study you, figure you out, then translate that on the field.

BUT WITH ALL THAT SAID: ROLANDO IS NOT OR WILL EVER BE ZACH THOMAS!!! DONT GET ON ME FOR THE COMPARISON. I AM A CROWDER AND MCCLAIN SUPPORTER!!!

SR 7
01-31-2010, 04:55 PM
Not every player who isn't Keith Bulluck or Patrick Willis deserves to be cut.

Don't you think thats why having a guy like Dansby or Spoon at MIke and CC takign Akins spot makes more sense and compliments one another better than McClain because Spoon brings something neither do...great coverage ability, 3 down player/playMAKER, and hard hitter with great speed. CC is not a mike but better suited to have Akins spot due to that spot requiring a bigger backer thats job is to attack the LOS and the run game.

I'm not saying McClain isn't good, I realllly like the guy but Spoon makes more plays with half the talent on his team especially on a D line point of view. I think Spoon is just a playmaker/gamer period and putting him around talent can make him a major impact player. Do you still see this whole "he is only a 4-3 backer due to can't take on blocks" stuff to be true?

SR 7
01-31-2010, 05:00 PM
Another thing Sparano said PP defensive scheme was to read than react....Sparano said what he liked about Nolans D was its REACT than read which means you dictate what hte offense SHOULD and WILL do not hte other way around which i think this suits guys like Wake, Crowder, and JT more along wiht a guy named Smith and davis who are both great INT players and aggressive in the air players....having Crowder think less it will make him jst go out and play ball and allow errond throws which would put a guy like Smith and Davis in position to pull down INTs with ease.

SR 7
01-31-2010, 05:20 PM
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/rams/story/929CE795CDF39186862576B80014181C?OpenDocument


At the Senior Bowl, the plan for Weatherspoon has included a little bit of everything. The Detroit Lions' coaching staff, which is coaching the North squad, has been using him at weakside, strongside, and middle linebacker. Lande, for one, thinks Weatherspoon could make an ideal inside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme.

ckparrothead
01-31-2010, 06:53 PM
You had me till the whole "he's decent cover guy. He's smart as hell, too." I agree with most of the post but Channing's downside, besides non-existing blitzing capabilities, is that he cant cover well. He's usually on the ground looking up at one of our DB's taking down the RB that just ran past him. He can't cover a TE (but most LB's cant either) but he needs to be able to seal holes and cover laterally better. 1 Interception in how long? A blind squirrel finds a nut faster than Crowder picks a ball. (However, His Brady INT was SICK!!! HAHAHAHAHA!) As for his "smarts" well I dont know the man but as far as how I've heard him talk he is dumber than a sack of rocks.

Channing has big play ability but he's so worried about not making a mistake that he tends to freeze or slow his decisions down a bit. Like a poster pointed out earlier: When Zach was around Channing had flashes of being amazing because he could take a leap and know that Zach was close behind to clean it up. That's what Rolando McClain brings to the table. Zach like qualities. SMART!, Great Decision Making, Hard Hitting, a Student of the Game, Field General all qualities Zach and Rolando share (and coincidentally nothing of which Crowder has).

Rolando is not a Rey Rey type LB that is going to smack you around till you're forced to fumble or throw an INT. Rolando is like Zach in that he'll study you, figure you out, then translate that on the field.

BUT WITH ALL THAT SAID: ROLANDO IS NOT OR WILL EVER BE ZACH THOMAS!!! DONT GET ON ME FOR THE COMPARISON. I AM A CROWDER AND MCCLAIN SUPPORTER!!!

Two things. One, yes Channing Crowder is a decent cover guy when healthy. There have been times when he has been victimized in coverage when he has had injuries that have hurt his mobility. Most times they give him an inordinate amount of coverage responsibilities, because our OLBs both in 2008 and 2009 have been terrible cover guys, and he has handled it pretty well. In 2008 not a single TE scored on us until Channing Crowder was out with an injury against Tony Gonzalez and the Chiefs. This year, TEs killed us a lot more, but part of that was due to a new scheme and both Yeremiah Bell having a worse year compared with 2008 from a coverage standpoint, and Gibril Wilson's mistakes. You're not SUPPOSED to have a linebacker like Channing Crowder running down the field with Dallas Clark. Any time that happens you have either a failure of scheme, or a failure of execution somewhere else to where the scheme is depending on one or two players to make sure that even with Crowder having to run downfield with Dallas Clark, the ball has very little likelihood of getting there because of, let's say a blitz on Peyton or a jam on Clark at the line of scrimmage, something like that.

Every time you see Channing Crowder come out of the game, someone who knows what they're seeing can look and see just how much the defense misses his coverage ability. He's not perfect at coverage, but he's clearly and by far the best that we have at coverage amongst every linebacker on the roster.

The second thing, about his smarts, yes he is a very smart football player and a very smart person period. He was in the honors society back in high school, he graduated Florida with a 3.5 or 3.7 GPA or something like that, and he scored like a 30+ on the Wonderlic. If you listen closely, you can hear that he's a very smart individual who likes to have fun with people. What was completely ironic about that whole "I didn't know they speak English in England" joke was that the people who harped about it supposedly showing how dumb Channing was, were themselves the ones that were too slow to get the joke. Tony Sparano has praised his intelligence a number of times. He calls the defense and he's a very intelligent football player.

ckparrothead
01-31-2010, 07:10 PM
Don't you think thats why having a guy like Dansby or Spoon at MIke and CC takign Akins spot makes more sense and compliments one another better than McClain because Spoon brings something neither do...great coverage ability, 3 down player/playMAKER, and hard hitter with great speed. CC is not a mike but better suited to have Akins spot due to that spot requiring a bigger backer thats job is to attack the LOS and the run game.

I'm not saying McClain isn't good, I realllly like the guy but Spoon makes more plays with half the talent on his team especially on a D line point of view. I think Spoon is just a playmaker/gamer period and putting him around talent can make him a major impact player. Do you still see this whole "he is only a 4-3 backer due to can't take on blocks" stuff to be true?

I think Crowder would complement well with any of the above. Channing has a good feel for slamming himself into the hole in order to force the running back where the defense wants instead of allowing the running back the ability to choose where he wants to go. That would work well with McClain, who is more used to being able to flow to the runner and not worry as much about that kind of gap control. It would also work well with Weatherspoon, because right now Spoon doesn't know how to do that AT ALL, and so if you put Crowder in there next to Spoon you have at least one guy that knows how to do that while the other guy is more of a freelancer that attacks the ball whichever way he can and at the same time is a good coverage backer. I think that Crowder and Dansby are both such smart and experienced veterans that they would complement each other naturally.

Crowder and Spikes are a little harder to tell. I say that simply because they both have that great feel for slamming the door on the hole and playing gap control, rather than freelancing to the ball or having the defense built to channel the ball toward them. Also, Spikes is a zone cover guy that thrives on reading the QB's eyes. He's not been given as much straight up man coverage in his days at Florida, which would mean that Channing would have to continue being the stronger cover player. There is some thought that if you have these two working the interior then you need at least one stronger cover guy amongst the OLBs...or maybe both. Of course, there is something to be said for that. Denver had Mario Haggan at the strong side spot, and Green Bay had Clay Matthews, both I would say had more versatility coverage-wise than Matt Roth, Jason Taylor or Joey Porter. Manny Lawson's athletic ability came in handy that way in San Francisco.

But anyway, I don't think there's one way to skin a cat in this regard. Crowder's a good player whom I feel takes a beating because he's not a fantastic player. Akin Ayodele and Reggie Torbor are the guys who struggle too often to achieve "mediocre" status. I would start there.

SR 7
01-31-2010, 08:21 PM
I think Crowder would complement well with any of the above. Channing has a good feel for slamming himself into the hole in order to force the running back where the defense wants instead of allowing the running back the ability to choose where he wants to go. That would work well with McClain, who is more used to being able to flow to the runner and not worry as much about that kind of gap control. It would also work well with Weatherspoon, because right now Spoon doesn't know how to do that AT ALL, and so if you put Crowder in there next to Spoon you have at least one guy that knows how to do that while the other guy is more of a freelancer that attacks the ball whichever way he can and at the same time is a good coverage backer. I think that Crowder and Dansby are both such smart and experienced veterans that they would complement each other naturally.

Crowder and Spikes are a little harder to tell. I say that simply because they both have that great feel for slamming the door on the hole and playing gap control, rather than freelancing to the ball or having the defense built to channel the ball toward them. Also, Spikes is a zone cover guy that thrives on reading the QB's eyes. He's not been given as much straight up man coverage in his days at Florida, which would mean that Channing would have to continue being the stronger cover player. There is some thought that if you have these two working the interior then you need at least one stronger cover guy amongst the OLBs...or maybe both. Of course, there is something to be said for that. Denver had Mario Haggan at the strong side spot, and Green Bay had Clay Matthews, both I would say had more versatility coverage-wise than Matt Roth, Jason Taylor or Joey Porter. Manny Lawson's athletic ability came in handy that way in San Francisco.

But anyway, I don't think there's one way to skin a cat in this regard. Crowder's a good player whom I feel takes a beating because he's not a fantastic player. Akin Ayodele and Reggie Torbor are the guys who struggle too often to achieve "mediocre" status. I would start there.

Yea I agree 100%. One thingi have noticed with CC he does a good job taking on the blocks and clogging the whole, doesn't do a good job of playing the runner which is why mostly our S and such get the tackles rather than him. I think he is doing the job of what Akin's spot consists of. Thats why a guy like McClain, Dansby, or Spoon would be very good compliments to CC. I think SPikes, personally, won't work out for this team due to speed, and similar ability to CC and I have a feeling he may be our pick if on teh board which I won't be a fan of until otherwise.