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View Full Version : Am I the only one the doesn't really want McClain?



SRM
01-29-2010, 11:30 PM
I know I'm probably going to get a lot of flack for this. But hear me out. I think McClain is a really good player, and you won't find him messing up much at all.

But when I see a stud linebacker, one that separates himself from just the good linebackers, I see one that is fast, that hits hard, has an amazing motor, and one that runningbacks avoid because they don't want any part of them. Do you guys see that in Rolando? I don't. I see someone that does what they have to do, but doesn't necessarily strike fear in the opponent's heart. That is what being a linebacker is all about. Being that insane bull that just happens to be in a human body.

I see this vicious mentality in Spikes, Weatherspoon, and Johnson. But I don't see it in McClain. I won't be upset or anything if we get McClain, but I just know that we probably wouldn't get anything like a Ray Lewis, Vilma, Beason, etc type of linebacker out of him.

Let's put it this way. I want a Vontae Davis at ILB, not a Will Allen. They're roughly the same size, except one hits like a truck, has an incredible motor, and has the athleticism to play against anyone.

Anyone see where I'm coming from on this?

(Also, all I've had to go by on judging McClain is from the draft videos that CK and others dissect his play on, so I may be wrong on how he approaches the game.)

ChadHenne
01-29-2010, 11:38 PM
I know I'm probably going to get a lot of flack for this. But hear me out. I think McClain is a really good player, and you won't find him messing up much at all.

But when I see a stud linebacker, one that separates himself from just the good linebackers, I see one that is fast, that hits hard, has an amazing motor, and one that runningbacks avoid because they don't want any part of them. Do you guys see that in Rolando? I don't. I see someone that does what they have to do, but doesn't necessarily strike fear in the opponent's heart. That is what being a linebacker is all about. Being that insane bull that just happens to be in a human body.

I see this vicious mentality in Spikes, Weatherspoon, and Johnson. But I don't see it in McClain. I won't be upset or anything if we get McClain, but I just know that we probably wouldn't get anything like a Ray Lewis, Vilma, Beason, etc type of linebacker out of him.

Let's put it this way. I want a Vontae Davis at ILB, not a Will Allen. They're roughly the same size, except one hits like a truck, has an incredible motor, and has the athleticism to play against anyone.

Anyone see where I'm coming from on this?

(Also, all I've had to go by on judging McClain is from the draft videos that CK and others dissect his play on, so I may be wrong on how he approaches the game.)

Alabama as a team was 2nd in all of FBS in run defense, and Rolando McClain led Alabama in tackles. McClain also improved every year that he was at Alabama, which is what you want to see when you draft a player, him reaching his potential over time.

And if you're trying to say in that entire post is that you don't see the "viciousness" in McClain, you are completely wrong. As a Gator fan, I've gotten to watch A LOT of his games at Alabama over the years, and the guy is in attack mode on every play. He is a top 10 talent, hell the best ILB prospect since Patrick Willis came out. We would be absolutely lucky to get McClain on this team.

I understand you have your opinion, but you didn't really use anything to back it up. No numbers, no videos, no real true reasoning, just false bias'.

You aren't alone in the people who don't want McClain, but that doesn't make it right. McClain dominated the SEC this year, and his game easily translates to the NFL level. Probably the safest pick in this entire draft outside of Suh and Berry (and Okung).

SRM
01-29-2010, 11:41 PM
Alabama as a team was 2nd in all of FBS in run defense, and Rolando McClain led Alabama in tackles. McClain also improved every year that he was at Alabama, which is what you want to see when you draft a player, him reaching his potential over time.

And if you're trying to say in that entire post is that you don't see the "viciousness" in McClain, you are completely wrong. As a Gator fan, I've gotten to watch A LOT of his games at Alabama over the years, and the guy is in attack mode on every play. He is a top 10 talent, hell the best ILB prospect since Patrick Willis came out. We would be absolutely lucky to get McClain on this team.

I understand you have your opinion, but you didn't really use anything to back it up. No numbers, no videos, no real true reasoning, just false bias'.

You aren't alone in the people who don't want McClain, but that doesn't make it right. McClain dominated the SEC this year, and his game easily translates to the NFL level. Probably the safest pick in this entire draft outside of Suh and Berry (and Okung).

Well could you provide something for me to watch that shows that he has this viciousness? I didn't really see it in that Universal Draft video. I'm not doubting you, I just want to see it for myself. I'll go watch it again as a matter of fact.

But if I remember, all I really saw him do was just wrap people up and try to use his weight to bring them down, I didn't really see him out there on the prowl, ready to knock someone's head off.

This is all just about a preference of mine, I think he's an incredible player, but that viciousness is just something I love to see in defensive players.

pfcomics
01-29-2010, 11:44 PM
"Am I the only one the doesn't really want McClain?"

Umm... Yes.

SRM
01-29-2010, 11:47 PM
"Am I the only one the doesn't really want McClain?"

Umm... Yes.

Thanks for reading my post and providing a response based on that.

ChadHenne
01-29-2010, 11:48 PM
http://ballhype.com/video/2009-rolando-mcclain-highlight-mp4/

Hard to find video's on him, but his build, numbers, and his influence on the rest of the Alabama Crimson Tide defense since he was a freshman speaks volumes.

SRM
01-29-2010, 11:59 PM
http://ballhype.com/video/2009-rolando-mcclain-highlight-mp4/

Hard to find video's on him, but his build, numbers, and his influence on the rest of the Alabama Crimson Tide defense since he was a freshman speaks volumes.

Hm, that does help a bit thanks. But I think I found the problem I'm talking about, it seems like he is tackling way too high most of the time. I'm not sure how often he'll get away with that in the NFL, although he is a really big dude.

hooshoops
01-30-2010, 12:02 AM
if you're looking for "viciousness" why do you have a pic of sean i avoid contact at all cost smith as your sig???

i think tedslimm coined rolando mcclain when he said mcclain's not patrick willis he's not ray lewis he's in the mold of a brian urlacher...

and i think that more than works for me considering what we've been sending out there at ilb since zach thomas left...

as far as speed rolando mcclain for a 6 ft 4 258 lb linebacker has plenty of speed and something so many of you guys fail to recognize...zach thomas like instincts and intelligence at the position...his instincts are really off the charts...absolutely vital for an impact ilb...

and the man can cover and understands coverage and run responsibilities with the best of them...

j-off-her-doll
01-30-2010, 12:10 AM
if you're looking for "viciousness" why do you have a pic of sean i avoid contact at all cost smith as your sig???

i think tedslimm coined rolando mcclain when he said mcclain's not patrick willis he's not ray lewis he's in the mold of a brian urlacher...

and i think that more than works for me considering what we've been sending out there at ilb since zach thomas left...

as far as speed rolando mcclain for a 6 ft 4 258 lb linebacker has plenty of speed and something so many of you guys fail to recognize...zach thomas like instincts and intelligence at the position...his instincts are really off the charts...absolutely vital for an impact ilb...

and the man can cover and understands coverage and run responsibilities with the best of them...

He's not in the mold of Brian Urlacher anymore than he is Ray Lewis. He lacks the hitting power and aggressive play that Lewis bring to the table just like he lacks the speed and agility that Urlacher does. McClain has only shown that he's a big solid LB.

SRM
01-30-2010, 12:12 AM
if you're looking for "viciousness" why do you have a pic of sean i avoid contact at all cost smith as your sig???

i think tedslimm coined rolando mcclain when he said mcclain's not patrick willis he's not ray lewis he's in the mold of a brian urlacher...

and i think that more than works for me considering what we've been sending out there at ilb since zach thomas left...

as far as speed rolando mcclain for a 6 ft 4 258 lb linebacker has plenty of speed and something so many of you guys fail to recognize...zach thomas like instincts and intelligence at the position...his instincts are really off the charts...absolutely vital for an impact ilb...

and the man can cover and understands coverage and run responsibilities with the best of them...

Hm well that makes a lot of sense to me. I wouldn't mind having someone in the mold of Urlacher :lol:

I guess I'm just getting a tad spoiled with all these prospects, and seeing guys like Willis out there doing what they do. I should be peeing my pants if we end up with someone that can make a tackle, let alone line up our D.

And well, the Vontae avatar kind of negates Sean's pic, doesn't it? :up:

j-off-her-doll
01-30-2010, 12:13 AM
To answer the original question: check my posts. I don't want McClain at #12. If we draft him, I'll hope he excels beyond my expectations, and I'll see him as an upgrade over Ayodele. Beyond that, I see a number of prospects who might or ought be there at 12 that I prefer.

hooshoops
01-30-2010, 12:21 AM
He's not in the mold of Brian Urlacher anymore than he is Ray Lewis. He lacks the hitting power and aggressive play that Lewis bring to the table just like he lacks the speed and agility that Urlacher does. McClain has only shown that he's a big solid LB.

he's also got 15 lbs on both of those guys...probably isn't quite as agile as urlacher but i think you guys understate just how physical a player mcclain can be...

i just think he's gonna do whatever he's got to do to get the job done in the nfl just like he's done at bama...doesn't really engage blockers all that much cause he doesn't have to...moves down the los pretty well and sniffs out plays...

he's better than just a big solid lb...absolutely i'd take him without hesitation at pick #12...after dez bryant

hooshoops
01-30-2010, 12:32 AM
the knocks that i personally have on mcclain are he's not the best blitzing lb but i think he's got upside there...

he doesn't have the highest motor...plays in a more controlled manner...i love a high motor but sometimes a guys lack of top level motor can be mistaken for a lack of talent or effort...and vice versa a guy who has a high motor and is an all out effort player can be overstated from a pure talent stand point...

his ball pursuit especially when the ball is down the field can run hot and cold...

he could play in a more physical manner but this guy isn't soft by any means...and i think if in the pros he needs to play with a bit more physicality he's got all the tools to do so...

but i said before and i'll say it again this guy can REALLY RUN for his size

if his motor picks up as a pro and he decides to hunt on every play LOOK OUT...that's all i can say

either way he'd be a MASSIVE upgrade on anything we have and a qb of our defense...like having a coach in the huddle

he's also got the most upside of any ilb in the draft...bar none

TedSlimmJr
01-30-2010, 12:45 AM
Not fast? he's 6'4", 255 pounds....he's not some 6'1", 240 pound linebacker......

If there's ever a linebacker McClain's size that's faster let me know....I've gotta see that mf'er...

Check out the play where he chased down Jeff Demps in the SEC CG....

He didn't get where he's at by being lazy.....he knows when to chase a play and when it's a waste of time.....and most guys his size know when to conserve energy and you would too....he doesn't come off the field....he HAS to be out there every play getting everyone on the same page...

He already runs in the 4.6 range...which is incredible for a linebacker that size...

40 time is overrated anyway for linebackers....if a middle linebacker is running 40 yards somebody ****ed up anyway.....his initial burst and recognition skills are top notch....he knows whats coming most of the time...

Sean Weatherspoon? Please......he's a good player and I like him as a prospect...but he's no Rolando McClain.....Weatherspoon is constantly caught out of position and that's why he has to chase plays so hard....it was even talked about a bit down at the Senior Bowl despite him having a pretty good week down there overall....not a top 15 pick IMO.....his best fit is a WILL in a 4-3 defense anyway to take advantage of the things that he does do well...

hooshoops
01-30-2010, 12:56 AM
that play where mcclain ran down that burner demps from the center of the field to outside the #'s was SICK

definitely a wow moment for me...

SRM
01-30-2010, 01:02 AM
that play where mcclain ran down that burner demps from the center of the field to outside the #'s was SICK

definitely a wow moment for me...

Any vid of it?

hooshoops
01-30-2010, 01:05 AM
Any vid of it?

you might be able to check espn 360.com and see if the sec champ game is listed there as one you can watch...they got a ton of games...

you can check youtube also...

demps is a burner and i remember thinking when he was handed the ball and gained the edge that was a 15 plus yard play with his speed etc...and mcclain swooped in like a condor from the very middle of the field on a beeline and met him at the los outside the #s

sick

SRM
01-30-2010, 01:44 AM
I did manage to find the game espn360, and man, I was wrong. Since I'm watching McClain on every single snap, I'm seeing he's a lot more physical than I thought.

Clipse
01-30-2010, 03:23 AM
As stated before, you won't find another LB at McClain's size with that speed. The thing that puts McClain heads and shoulders above the rest, is his instincts and smarts on the field. He's literally a coach on the field. Call me crazy but we can damn sure use that.

roy_miami
01-30-2010, 03:45 AM
Intuition is what separates the studs from the rest. Intuition doesn't come from voodoo potions, it comes from studying film and having the ability to soak it in. It translates to the football field by recognizing subtleties you see in the backfield, things you've seen on film hundreds of time or in game and your subconscious puts you in the right position to make the play.

Zach Thomas studied a ton of film and was a ball hawk

Ray Lewis studies a ton of film.

From what I hear, McClain loves to study film and he seems to always be around the ball. At best McClain could be the next Ray Lewis, at worst he'll still be a lot better than Crowder. It seems like a no-brainer to take him at 12 to me.

Speaking of Crowder, he doesn't strike me as the type to study a lot of film and if he does he's probably day dreaming about his radio show during it.

#1dolphinsfan
01-30-2010, 04:11 AM
i disagree with most of that i want McClain at 12 i would love to have him in miami but i would rather go with Dez Bryant in the first and go with Either Spikes if there in the second or go with Micah Johnson in the 3rd because i think Spikes and Johnson are going to be two very good ILB in the NFL as i think McClain is going to be as well he is very smart, Physical and loves to study film and that is what makes a great LB

Xeticus
01-30-2010, 04:33 AM
Here's the thing you want a hard hitter, an assassin, an enforcer. That's not McClain. What I saw of him against Texas was he's a ballhawk. Wherever the ball goes he's there to make the play. He's smart, he's a leader and he's aggressive without being a mindless thug. This guy is a baller. He's big, strong, tough, smart. Is he the fastest? probably not? Is he the hardest hitter? Probably not. But he's fast enough, smart enough, strong enough to be a real leader on the defense.

Odds are he won't be there when we draft. But we'd be lucky to have him.

2413fanphins
01-30-2010, 10:13 AM
I think we'd be foolish to not take mcclain at twelve if he was there.

I would like dez bryant as well, but I give it a very slim chance give his last seasons drama and the fact that our FO will probably avoid him and his agent altogether.

the problem I am having is deciding what to do if mcclain is gone by 12.

I am thinking at that point I would hope we trade down, accumulate another pick and maybe grab a NT in the 18-22 range.

crossing my fingers for mcclain though.

we could still get spikes in the second, that would be sick. but probably nearly impossible.

Xeticus
01-30-2010, 01:56 PM
I think we'd be foolish to not take mcclain at twelve if he was there.

I would like dez bryant as well, but I give it a very slim chance give his last seasons drama and the fact that our FO will probably avoid him and his agent altogether.

the problem I am having is deciding what to do if mcclain is gone by 12.

I am thinking at that point I would hope we trade down, accumulate another pick and maybe grab a NT in the 18-22 range.

crossing my fingers for mcclain though.

we could still get spikes in the second, that would be sick. but probably nearly impossible.I could see it. ILB's normally don't go high. McClain is looked at as a superior prospect which is why he'll go in the top 15.

Spikes could easily drop to the end of the first or the beginning of the second.

Awsi Dooger
01-30-2010, 03:32 PM
I wouldn't be thrilled with McLain. I view him as a LB version of Ronnie Brown, a nice hard trying player with many moderate strengths but not awesome at anything, and overall falling shy of reputation. A guy whose best year might put him at fringe Pro Bowl status instead of annual certainty. McLain even reminds me of Brown in his body type, although more bottom heavy, and in his speech/personality. Both are quick to smile and generally articulate but will throw in the "ain't" and "don't" where they aren't proper, and are more soft spoken than team leader types.

This is vague, but I remember the personalities on the early '70s Dolphins team extremely well, and when a prospect shows up that's the first thing I evaluate; does he sound like someone who would have fit in on that roster, where almost everyone was incredibly smart and articulate, and losing was not tolerated? McLain is borderline.

I can see where opinion of McLain would be mixed. A parallel to Ronnie Brown would draw wows from some camps and barely topping a shrug from others. Of course, we'd be getting McLain at #12 not #2.

Like Ronnie, McLain's aggressiveness and instincts aren't dependable. They seem to vary dramatically depending on the situation, which can be incredibly frustrating. Too often he'll plant both feet at a critical juncture, like a tennis player awaiting serve, and get stuck in traffic exactly where you don't want to be, a couple of feet behind the mass of linemen, unable to detect the flow of the play and generally standing too upright to begin with, which is a prime concern. NFL backs will blow right past McLain if he finds them late and he's standing there with nothing available but a flailing arm tackle.

Unlike other evaluations I've seen, I like McLain going forward in blitz situations. He's most decisive in that scenario when the target is in sight and can parry a RB block with his shoulders and keep going, mostly undeterred. I think he'd be surprisingly effective as an NFL blitzer. He's junk against sideline to sideline offenses that feature flow and confusion. I remember watching the Auburn game and almost laughing at him on occasion, shoulders turned directly opposite of where they needed to be. Fortunately there aren't many Malzahn-type offenses in the NFL.

When McLain is tardy to locate the play, he's strangely not full blast but chases at seemingly 80% intensity, almost like's he's surrendered that he made a mistake and can't get there. The first game I watched him he blasted someone and I thought, gad this #25 is ferocious. Then after focusing on him a few plays I realized he was more of an even keel player, not a Ray Lewis wrecking ball.

Admittedly, I have a distaste for the 3-4 so scrutinizing someone who fits best in that format is not my preference and I'm probably more likely to err. But guys like Bradford and Berry and Bryant and Hughes and Spiller have distinct strengths where they stand out as elite. McLain is more along the lines of having a dent fixed on your car, something you know needs to be done but isn't particularly exciting.

munchkin
01-30-2010, 09:06 PM
I wouldn't mind Mcclain, but we should trade down and get him around #20. Almost everyone is in this forum is set that Mcclain is a top 12 draft choice but IMO he's not. He's a solid ILB that would be an immediate upgrade over A. Ayodele. But he is not a high impact player and is not worth the 12th pick in the draft.

#1dolphinsfan
01-30-2010, 09:09 PM
I wouldn't mind Mcclain, but we should trade down and get him around #20. Almost everyone is in this forum is set that Mcclain is a top 12 draft choice but IMO he's not. He's a solid ILB that would be an immediate upgrade over A. Ayodele. But he is not a high impact player and is not worth the 12th pick in the draft.
i disagree there is no way he gets the 20 in this draft if we traded down i dont think there would be anyway of getting him which would be fine if we traded down but if you want McClain you shouldnt trade down we might not even be able to get him at 12

Awsi Dooger
01-30-2010, 09:11 PM
I wouldn't mind Mcclain, but we should trade down and get him around #20. Almost everyone is in this forum is set that Mcclain is a top 12 draft choice but IMO he's not. He's a solid ILB that would be an immediate upgrade over A. Ayodele. But he is not a high impact player and is not worth the 12th pick in the draft.

I agree with that summary. McLain would be a very expensive moderate upgrade. Actually, a considerable upgrade but I can't see him as an NFL star. As a gambler I prefer to aim higher. You don't win championships with a bunch of near-Pro Bowlers.

DcRy82
01-30-2010, 11:15 PM
McClain does a lot of great things, but 3 things I dont like about McClain.
1. He tackles too high
2. Gets beat to the corner a lot (not a sideline to sideline guy)
3. Isnt aggressive enough at the POA. He lets guards get to him at the second level. He waits for them there, "ole's" them, and then moves in on the play instead of attacking the LOS. It seems like he plays TOO "safe" .. He seems content giving up 3 or 4 yards instead of being more aggressive, and stopping a player for a loss or at the LOS.

I Dont like Spikes sideline to sideline ability either, but at least he attacks plays.. sometimes over-pursues, but i'd rather over-pusue from time to time than never making big plays in the backfield. Spikes is also a hitter. Not too familiar with how he covers, but from what i can remember, i dont think it's too great

Overall, I'm hoping for a game changing player in the first round (i.e. Dez Bryant, CJ Spiller, Earl Thomas), and then praying for Weatherspoon to be there in the 2nd. I think Spoon if we can get him in the second, that would be the "biggest bang for our buck".

GeauxFinns3705
01-30-2010, 11:40 PM
Alabama as a team was 2nd in all of FBS in run defense, and Rolando McClain led Alabama in tackles. McClain also improved every year that he was at Alabama, which is what you want to see when you draft a player, him reaching his potential over time.

And if you're trying to say in that entire post is that you don't see the "viciousness" in McClain, you are completely wrong. As a Gator fan, I've gotten to watch A LOT of his games at Alabama over the years, and the guy is in attack mode on every play. He is a top 10 talent, hell the best ILB prospect since Patrick Willis came out. We would be absolutely lucky to get McClain on this team.

I understand you have your opinion, but you didn't really use anything to back it up. No numbers, no videos, no real true reasoning, just false bias'.

You aren't alone in the people who don't want McClain, but that doesn't make it right. McClain dominated the SEC this year, and his game easily translates to the NFL level. Probably the safest pick in this entire draft outside of Suh and Berry (and Okung).

McClain is a beast!

GeauxFinns3705
01-30-2010, 11:44 PM
Not fast? he's 6'4", 255 pounds....he's not some 6'1", 240 pound linebacker......

If there's ever a linebacker McClain's size that's faster let me know....I've gotta see that mf'er...

Check out the play where he chased down Jeff Demps in the SEC CG....

He didn't get where he's at by being lazy.....he knows when to chase a play and when it's a waste of time.....and most guys his size know when to conserve energy and you would too....he doesn't come off the field....he HAS to be out there every play getting everyone on the same page...

He already runs in the 4.6 range...which is incredible for a linebacker that size...

40 time is overrated anyway for linebackers....if a middle linebacker is running 40 yards somebody ****ed up anyway.....his initial burst and recognition skills are top notch....he knows whats coming most of the time...

Sean Weatherspoon? Please......he's a good player and I like him as a prospect...but he's no Rolando McClain.....Weatherspoon is constantly caught out of position and that's why he has to chase plays so hard....it was even talked about a bit down at the Senior Bowl despite him having a pretty good week down there overall....not a top 15 pick IMO.....his best fit is a WILL in a 4-3 defense anyway to take advantage of the things that he does do well...

As usual, you are right on the mark.

MrEd
01-30-2010, 11:46 PM
Well could you provide something for me to watch that shows that he has this viciousness? I didn't really see it in that Universal Draft video. I'm not doubting you, I just want to see it for myself. I'll go watch it again as a matter of fact.

But if I remember, all I really saw him do was just wrap people up and try to use his weight to bring them down, I didn't really see him out there on the prowl, ready to knock someone's head off.

This is all just about a preference of mine, I think he's an incredible player, but that viciousness is just something I love to see in defensive players.

I'm with you SRM. You are being very reasonable and logical with your analysis. What I hear from you is that you are giving McClain all the chance in the world to wow you but he hasn't and that you just don't want to go by the hype and just accept that he is the best thing out there when you don't see it for yourself. I feel exactly the same way.

Every time I see McClain on video, he looks 'exactly' the way Crowder looked in college and potentially looks to be Channing Crowder's identical clone in the pros.

Crowder is good, but he is not a Ray Lewis. I feel the same way with McClain. Weatherspoon impresses me a lot more than McClain does. And Weatherspoon is awesome on pass coverage to go along with his Ray Lewis type hitting.

No, you are not alone in your viewpoint. There are many of us reasonable people who have been thinking the same thing.

MrEd
01-30-2010, 11:56 PM
Not fast? he's 6'4", 255 pounds....he's not some 6'1", 240 pound linebacker......

If there's ever a linebacker McClain's size that's faster let me know....I've gotta see that mf'er...

Check out the play where he chased down Jeff Demps in the SEC CG....

He didn't get where he's at by being lazy.....he knows when to chase a play and when it's a waste of time.....and most guys his size know when to conserve energy and you would too....he doesn't come off the field....he HAS to be out there every play getting everyone on the same page...

He already runs in the 4.6 range...which is incredible for a linebacker that size...

40 time is overrated anyway for linebackers....if a middle linebacker is running 40 yards somebody ****ed up anyway.....his initial burst and recognition skills are top notch....he knows whats coming most of the time...

Sean Weatherspoon? Please......he's a good player and I like him as a prospect...but he's no Rolando McClain.....Weatherspoon is constantly caught out of position and that's why he has to chase plays so hard....it was even talked about a bit down at the Senior Bowl despite him having a pretty good week down there overall....not a top 15 pick IMO.....his best fit is a WILL in a 4-3 defense anyway to take advantage of the things that he does do well...

Um, what do you think the WILL is in a 3-4? Um, an ILB. :facepalm:

Akin Ayodele plays the 3-4's version of the WILL. And yes, Weatherspoon would absolutely takeover Akin's spot and UPgrade it BIG TIME.

Weatherspoon >>> McClain.
Weatherspoon = Vilma
McClain = Crowder

We already have our Crowder, now we need our Vilma. Weatherspoon, come on down!!!!

endorPHINS72
01-31-2010, 12:13 AM
I think taking McClain with our 1st round pick would be a huge reach, regardless of where he eventually is drafted. These comparisons to Patrick Willis and Ray Lewis were HUGE stretches. He is nowhere near the quality of player the hype would lead some to believe.

SRM
01-31-2010, 12:43 AM
I'm with you SRM. You are being very reasonable and logical with your analysis. What I hear from you is that you are giving McClain all the chance in the world to wow you but he hasn't and that you just don't want to go by the hype and just accept that he is the best thing out there when you don't see it for yourself. I feel exactly the same way.

Every time I see McClain on video, he looks 'exactly' the way Crowder looked in college and potentially looks to be Channing Crowder's identical clone in the pros.

Crowder is good, but he is not a Ray Lewis. I feel the same way with McClain. Weatherspoon impresses me a lot more than McClain does. And Weatherspoon is awesome on pass coverage to go along with his Ray Lewis type hitting.

No, you are not alone in your viewpoint. There are many of us reasonable people who have been thinking the same thing.

Yeah that's stilll how I feel. I saw some more vid on him, and he's more physical than I thought, but I still don't see that killer instinct in him. Like I said earlier, I do see it in Weatherspoon, Spikes, and Johnson though.

I have to wonder though, do you mean he looked identical to Crowder as in he lacks the killer instinct or was Crowder actually a smart player in college and somewhere along the line got dropped on his head and has no idea what he's doing now?

With that said, I still really have no complaints with McClain at 12, because I know he'll be a really good player wherever he goes. I just wouldn't be jumping off my couch, running around in excitement.

Clipse
01-31-2010, 12:53 AM
I wouldn't mind Mcclain, but we should trade down and get him around #20. Almost everyone is in this forum is set that Mcclain is a top 12 draft choice but IMO he's not. He's a solid ILB that would be an immediate upgrade over A. Ayodele. But he is not a high impact player and is not worth the 12th pick in the draft.
People are saying that because he will easily be a top 12 pick... There's about as good a chance of McClain falling to pick 20 as Eric Berry of falling to pick 12, not going to happen.

Clipse
01-31-2010, 12:57 AM
Um, what do you think the WILL is in a 3-4? Um, an ILB. :facepalm:

Akin Ayodele plays the 3-4's version of the WILL. And yes, Weatherspoon would absolutely takeover Akin's spot and UPgrade it BIG TIME.

Weatherspoon >>> McClain.
Weatherspoon = Vilma
McClain = Crowder

We already have our Crowder, now we need our Vilma. Weatherspoon, come on down!!!!
:lol::lol::lol::lol: McClain = Crowder :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Funniest thing I have read in a long time. McClain has more instincts/smarts in his forsekin than Crowder has in his whole body.

Weatherspoon = Vilma is about correct. A very good 4-3 MLB, not so much 3-4 ILB.

Clipse
01-31-2010, 12:58 AM
McClain is practically a coach on the field. These Crowder/McClain comparisons couldn't be more ridiculous.

SRM
01-31-2010, 01:13 AM
While I'm here, why isn't Micah Johnson up there with these guys? He plays fast, he's 6'2 250, he hits hard, he seems to get off blocks well, and can diagnose plays.

hooshoops
01-31-2010, 01:15 AM
cause micah johnson was dinged up all season and never really healthy...but he's not as instinctual as rolando mcclain...not even close

micah johnson is a top 5 ilb in a 3-4 but looks to me like more of a thumper...

DcRy82
01-31-2010, 01:21 AM
I dont know why everyone thinks McClain is hands down going to be the best ILB at the next level. Because he's smart?? Ok, great, he's still caught out of position from time to time. Because he has instincts? You mean when he stands there and lets a G tie him up 5 yards downfield before getting off to make a tackle on a 3 or 4 yard gain?? McClain CANT blitz, he doesnt have the speed to go sideline to sideline, and he tackles high.. He does a good job keeping plays in front of him, ill give him that.. but i dont kno what it is about him that makes people 100% sold that he is going to be a pro bowler..

DcRy82
01-31-2010, 01:23 AM
We dont need a coach on the field.. We need a playmaker first and foremost.. we have coaches on the sideline.. If he can direct the defense while he is making plays, great.. but McClain isnt a playmaker.

hooshoops
01-31-2010, 01:26 AM
when you say mcclain doesn't have the speed to go sideline to sideline you FAIL

Clipse
01-31-2010, 01:32 AM
While I'm here, why isn't Micah Johnson up there with these guys? He plays fast, he's 6'2 250, he hits hard, he seems to get off blocks well, and can diagnose plays.
I love Micah Johnson. As hooshoops stated, he has durability concerns.

hooshoops
01-31-2010, 01:36 AM
some of these guys act like even though every draft guru in the country pretty much has mcclain in their top 12 prospects available they don't know what they're talking about...

i don't even need the draft gurus...i know mcclain is legit off my own study...

mcclain=crowder...:lol: mcclain makes more plays in 1 quarter than crowder does in a year...

Clipse
01-31-2010, 01:40 AM
when you say mcclain doesn't have the speed to go sideline to sideline you FAIL
This guy has no idea does he :lol:. I mean who cares that he had the speed to meet Jefferey Demps, one of the fastest players in the SEC, at the LOS. McClain not a playmaker? Yea, him not being a playmaker probably explains why he's the unanimous best ILB in the draft. Letting a guard tie him up 5 yards down field before making a tackle? Somebody needs to watch some tape because McClain is hands down the best ILB in the draft at shedding blocks... We don't need a coach on the field? You do realize that's one of the things that made Zach Thomas such a great MLB right? Guess not.

DcRy82
01-31-2010, 01:43 AM
McClain got beat to the corner his fair share of times.. More than a Top 10 linebacker in college should.. You think that improves when he gets to the NFL???? Oooooh... I forgot, that ONE TIME he caught Demps by the heel and prevented him from sprinting to the endzone on everyone so that means he can cover S to S...?

DcRy82
01-31-2010, 01:45 AM
Yea... and i forgot, please remind me how many SB we won with Zach at MLB... And quit askin for Co Signers... I've watched film on the guy and in my opinion he isnt a top 10 pick

hooshoops
01-31-2010, 01:45 AM
i hardly ever see mcclain get held up in traffic...and when a guy does get to him at the 2nd level he doesn't stay blocked unlike the tape i reviewed of weatherspoon in some games and spikes among others...

mcclain is 6 ft 4 258 lbs...he's not gonna be easy to keep from getting off blocks...he flows down the los with ease

i'm not trying to be a jerk but when someone says something that is just flat out wrong i can't just roll with it...mcclain is faster than spikes and likely micah johnson (but who knows how fast he is with all his injuries) and while everyone is cooing over weatherspoon who has excellent acceleration weatherspoon struggles to maintain that high end speed in ball pursuit...

just wait and see what mcclain runs at 6 ft 4 and 258 lbs...jaws are gonna drop

Clipse
01-31-2010, 01:47 AM
McClain got beat to the corner his fair share of times.. More than a Top 10 linebacker in college should.. You think that improves when he gets to the NFL???? Oooooh... I forgot, that ONE TIME he caught Demps by the heel and prevented him from sprinting to the endzone on everyone so that means he can cover S to S...?
You do realize his size right? You do realize he has better speed than well, everybody else his size right? No point in arguing with somebody who clearly is biased for whatever reason, thus clouding their judgment. We'll just agree to disagree.

hooshoops
01-31-2010, 01:48 AM
Yea... and i forgot, please remind me how many SB we won with Zach at MLB... And quit askin for Co Signers... I've watched film on the guy and in my opinion he isnt a top 10 pick

so i guess you're saying because we didn't win superbowls zach with all his instincts wasn't a great lb

just stop...or actually continue...you amuse me

Clipse
01-31-2010, 01:50 AM
i hardly ever see mcclain get held up in traffic...and when a guy does get to him at the 2nd level he doesn't stay blocked unlike the tape i reviewed of weatherspoon in some games and spikes among others...

mcclain is 6 ft 4 258 lbs...he's not gonna be easy to keep from getting off blocks...he flows down the los with ease

i'm not trying to be a jerk but when someone says something that is just flat out wrong i can't just roll with it...mcclain is faster than spikes and likely micah johnson (but who knows how fast he is with all his injuries) and while everyone is cooing over weatherspoon who has excellent acceleration weatherspoon struggles to maintain that high end speed in ball pursuit...

just wait and see what mcclain runs at 6 ft 4 and 258 lbs...jaws are gonna drop
Weatherspoon will be great in a 4-3. But some people obviously forget we run a 3-4. McClain's speed at his size, the way he sheds blocks, his instincts/smarts will be great in our 3-4. Hopefully Denver doesn't draft him, but if they lose either Dumerville or Marshall, I can see them drafting Graham/Bryant instead.

Clipse
01-31-2010, 01:52 AM
so i guess you're saying because we didn't win superbowls zach with all his instincts wasn't a great lb

just stop...or actually continue...you amuse me
It is quite amusing isn't it. Urlacher doesn't have a ring, guess he's not a good MLB either. Marino doesn't have a ring, must not be a very good QB then.

hooshoops
01-31-2010, 01:54 AM
if denver takes graham i'm fine with it...i just want one of bryant or mcclain at #12 on the board...

i'd take bryant over mcclain cause i feel like the gap while large between mcclain and other ilbs isn't quite as large as the gap between bryant and the rest of this wr core...plus i feel like a pretty good ilb can be had at pick #43 or #74 etc...

plus i have bryant rated slightly higher than mcclain...

DcRy82
01-31-2010, 02:01 AM
Just saying a coach on the field didnt win us a superbowl.. please continue taking comments out of context it amuses me as well...

Yes, McClain is big and quick for his size, but still gets beat to the sideline.. didnt kno that because of someones size that it excuses them from being judged on their S to S abilities. McClain doesnt get tied up often, what he does do is he waits on the G to come out to him instead of attack the LOS.. He made a lot of tackles that could have been at the LOS but ended up being gains.. laugh all you want, i could really care less. I have no bias, my opinions arent clouded.. I see what I see.. and what I see is a great college ILB and someone who will be a solid to good pro. Just not sold on him being a top 10 pick.. and i could honestly care less what any "draft guru" has to say about it.. There are plenty of other people in this world who deserve their job instead of them.. not sayin i'm one of them, but i understand the game very well.. played it for 12 years..

DcRy82
01-31-2010, 02:06 AM
And thank you for those of you who are lowering my rep just because i disagree with you. Pretty classy.. not like i'm on here being an idiot. i'm expressing what i see and my opinions with what i see as valid points.. but keep spending your time lowering someones rep on an internet forum, have fun with that.. its saturday night, and i have a social life and dont need to ask other posters to cosign on my posts so i have internet buddies.. you should try getting a life outside of a forum, it's a lot of fun.

hooshoops
01-31-2010, 02:08 AM
you read what you posted and tell me if we took it out of context...

anyways...i respectfully disagree with just about all of your take and game evaluations...

and i wouldn't waste my time lowering your rep...trust me

Clipse
01-31-2010, 02:32 AM
if denver takes graham i'm fine with it...i just want one of bryant or mcclain at #12 on the board...

i'd take bryant over mcclain cause i feel like the gap while large between mcclain and other ilbs isn't quite as large as the gap between bryant and the rest of this wr core...plus i feel like a pretty good ilb can be had at pick #43 or #74 etc...

plus i have bryant rated slightly higher than mcclain...
I like Bryant, but this draft is stacked with defensive talent that we could use. Next year's draft is one of the best WR classes I have ever seen. That's where I feel we should solve our WR problem, while getting a guy like Antonio Bryant to fill in til then. To each his own though.

Clipse
01-31-2010, 02:45 AM
Just saying a coach on the field didnt win us a superbowl.. please continue taking comments out of context it amuses me as well...

Yes, McClain is big and quick for his size, but still gets beat to the sideline.. didnt kno that because of someones size that it excuses them from being judged on their S to S abilities. McClain doesnt get tied up often, what he does do is he waits on the G to come out to him instead of attack the LOS.. He made a lot of tackles that could have been at the LOS but ended up being gains.. laugh all you want, i could really care less. I have no bias, my opinions arent clouded.. I see what I see.. and what I see is a great college ILB and someone who will be a solid to good pro. Just not sold on him being a top 10 pick.. and i could honestly care less what any "draft guru" has to say about it.. There are plenty of other people in this world who deserve their job instead of them.. not sayin i'm one of them, but i understand the game very well.. played it for 12 years..
For you to disscredit McClain because he can't run sideline to sideline like some other LB's are and then act like being a coach on the field doesn't matter and trying to discredit his ability to shed blocks is quite ridiculous to say the least. You act as if McClain is terrible sideline to sideline, and he isn't. He's good at it. Not great, but good. He's the best 3-4 ILB prospect in the draft hands down and is well worth a top 15 pick. Not many can disagree with that.

Clipse
01-31-2010, 02:48 AM
And thank you for those of you who are lowering my rep just because i disagree with you. Pretty classy.. not like i'm on here being an idiot. i'm expressing what i see and my opinions with what i see as valid points.. but keep spending your time lowering someones rep on an internet forum, have fun with that.. its saturday night, and i have a social life and dont need to ask other posters to cosign on my posts so i have internet buddies.. you should try getting a life outside of a forum, it's a lot of fun.
:lol: Always get a kick out of you type of posters.

Lord Of Miami
01-31-2010, 02:56 AM
Just a heads up for some posting in this thread................ A 3-4 ILB Doesn't have to go sideline to sideline like he's a 4-3 ILB.

If your a 3-4 ILB you have to have the size to take on the Oline and be able to run with a RB or TE 10 to 15 yards down the field before they inter the zone of the SS or FS.

All this talk of running sideline to sideline in 3-4 just shows that you don't understand football and really don't know what your talking about.

Awsi Dooger
01-31-2010, 04:26 AM
J McClain doesnt get tied up often, what he does do is he waits on the G to come out to him instead of attack the LOS.. He made a lot of tackles that could have been at the LOS but ended up being gains

That's what I see. I tried to describe it in a lengthy post earlier in the thread, that McLain stops flatfooted briefly while trying to diagnose the play. My best analogy is like a tennis player awaiting a serve, although obviously McLain's feet aren't set that wide. He does it in the wash.

Regardless, I don't participate in that reputation stuff, and didn't even know what the greenery meant until recently, but I like your opinion.

The argument that everyone says one thing, and therefore it must be inarguably correct, can be nutshelled as, "Why be alone when I can be a clone?" :lol:

TedSlimmJr
01-31-2010, 04:51 AM
:lol:
Um, what do you think the WILL is in a 3-4? Um, an ILB. :facepalm:

Akin Ayodele plays the 3-4's version of the WILL. And yes, Weatherspoon would absolutely takeover Akin's spot and UPgrade it BIG TIME.

Weatherspoon >>> McClain.
Weatherspoon = Vilma
McClain = Crowder

We already have our Crowder, now we need our Vilma. Weatherspoon, come on down!!!!


The WILL linebacker in a 3-4 has gap responsibility....which doesn't fit Weatherspoon's skillset...

The WILL in a 4-3 doesn't have the same level of gap responsibility and is more covered up....

All those >>>>> doesn't amount to very much to me....Weatherspoon isn't Rolando McClain....and I'll bet you Weatherspoon gets drafted by a 4-3 team to man the WILL spot..

Quick....what number does McClain wear? :lol: And how many tackles did Weatherspoon have when Navy was busy rushing for 400 yards on him?

hooshoops
01-31-2010, 01:08 PM
me making the point about all the draft gurus pretty much having mcclain in their top 12 is pretty much irrelevant...i must have had too many spirits last night...

cause i don't profess to the the theory that going against the grain makes you wrong...in fact i do it all the time...

that being said i think that saying mcclain would be no better than crowder is really stretching it to say the least...

and i think saying mcclain is not an elite looking ilb prospect is off base...

DcRy82
01-31-2010, 03:04 PM
To clear up my opinion that everyone believes is wrong,

1. I do think McClain will be better than Crowder but they play very similar (except Crowder is actually embarrassingly a better blitzer and hits harder)
2. The ability to play sideline to sideline is a great ability to have no matter what kind of scheme you play. Not sure why you wouldnt want a LB to have that ability, i dont know, i must not kno anything about football.
3. I think McClain will be good at the next level
4. I think he takes blocks on and sheds them very well, but he doesnt do it at the line of scrimmage, he sits back and waits for the play to develop instead of attacking the LOS therefore making a lot of tackles 3, 4 yards downfield.
5. I've never once argued that he's not the best LB prospect, I just dont think he is a top 10 pick.

hooshoops
01-31-2010, 03:06 PM
how many sacks does crowder have for his what 5 year career??? can you count them on one hand??? if not it's close i promise you

so i don't see how anyone can say that a guy who hardly ever gets the qb down from an inside lb position with a solid d front to hold up blockers is a better blitzer...

if you want to say spikes is better i can agree with that but crowder i don't really see this effective blitzer...

damn guys..crowder got his first int of his career this year and that was because cam wake was hanging on bradys legs like drapes...

2413fanphins
01-31-2010, 03:28 PM
I have a ten year old cousin who is a tackling machine in pop warner. he doesnt' have too many Int's, TFL, forced fumbles, recoveries or batted balls. sometimes I mistake him for channing crowder.

DcRy82
01-31-2010, 03:29 PM
whatever bro, agree to disagree.. I have no idea what McClain will do in the NFL, nobody does, but he is a very ineffective blitzer at the college level, it's obviously not going to be better in the pros.
At the end of the day, we all have our opinions, unfortunately (like every other year and draft class people argue about) nobody is going to know who's going to do what or how good they'll be for another 3 years.. and by that time a lot of people either forget what they said or act like they knew it all along. pretty much, these arguments are pointless.

hooshoops
01-31-2010, 03:32 PM
i just asked you to answer the question...you said crowder was a better blitzer than mcclain...i said crowder hardly ever gets a sack based on his stats...

you didn't want to discuss it further...

no worries

DcRy82
01-31-2010, 07:54 PM
Crowder has less than 5 sacks actually. 2.5 for his career. When i said "embarrassingly" crowder is better.. i was saying that it is embarrassing that there is someone worse than crowder at blitzing.. Implying that crowder is not a good blitzer, saying that crowder is actually a terrible blitzer by all measure and so is McClain. I also said that I think McClain will be a better pro than Crowder.. I have previously said both of those things so i'm not sure why you keep asking me about Crowder. All i said is that they play similar to each other and that IMO McClain isnt a "playmaker" at ILB and neither is Crowder. While McClain WOULD be an upgrade at ILB, i dont think he is worth a top ten pick and i would rather go after a playmaker on offense and hope for weatherspoon or spikes to be there in the 2nd (if we dont address it in FA).. The whole point to my postings has been that I dont think McClain is a playmaker (not a top 10 pick) and that the dolphins need to get a playmaker with their first pick.

BTW, McClain has a MUCH better DL (in comparison) in front of him than Crowder does, so i'm not sure why you brought up defensive fronts.

DcRy82
01-31-2010, 07:55 PM
2413Fanfins, I'm sorry to hear about your cousin...

DcRy82
01-31-2010, 08:11 PM
Just a heads up for some posting in this thread................ A 3-4 ILB Doesn't have to go sideline to sideline like he's a 4-3 ILB.

If your a 3-4 ILB you have to have the size to take on the Oline and be able to run with a RB or TE 10 to 15 yards down the field before they inter the zone of the SS or FS.

All this talk of running sideline to sideline in 3-4 just shows that you don't understand football and really don't know what your talking about.

Hahahahaha... Are you serious with this?? An ILB doesnt have to go S2S because he's in a 3-4? And you say I dont know what I'm talking about?? So does an ILB in a 3-4 never have to leave the tackle box??? Do teams stop running off tackle and and sweeps and try to get to the outside when they face a 3-4 team?? Just curious because saying that a 3-4 ILB that can run S2S well ISNT highly coveted is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard.

justdev7
01-31-2010, 09:03 PM
The only question I have about any linebacker is can they cover, if McClain can cover than i'm in

Clipse
01-31-2010, 09:56 PM
Hahahahaha... Are you serious with this?? An ILB doesnt have to go S2S because he's in a 3-4? And you say I dont know what I'm talking about?? So does an ILB in a 3-4 never have to leave the tackle box??? Do teams stop running off tackle and and sweeps and try to get to the outside when they face a 3-4 team?? Just curious because saying that a 3-4 ILB that can run S2S well ISNT highly coveted is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard.
Well, the only argument you constantly keep bring up is sideline to sideline, sideline to sideline, sideline to sideline... You act as is going sideline to sideline is the be all end all to being good at the next level. Which is very wrong, especially in a 3-4. Then you act as if McClain is terrible at going sideline to sideline, which he isn't he's good at it, not great, but good at it. Then of course you keep bringing up blitzing. Ok, he's not good of a blitzer, oh well. He's so good at other things, it really isn't that relevent, being blitzing from the middle isn't the be all end all to being a 3-4 ILB either... Oh, and he had 4 sacks this year, 3 last year so... He's not nearly as bad a blitzer as you make him out to be. If you came up with a good argument, that's one thing, but you have failed to bring up any valid points yet.

munchkin
01-31-2010, 10:00 PM
Just a heads up for some posting in this thread................ A 3-4 ILB Doesn't have to go sideline to sideline like he's a 4-3 ILB.

If your a 3-4 ILB you have to have the size to take on the Oline and be able to run with a RB or TE 10 to 15 yards down the field before they inter the zone of the SS or FS.

All this talk of running sideline to sideline in 3-4 just shows that you don't understand football and really don't know what your talking about.

This is hilarious, some quality stuff and very educational I might add.

So if you play ILB in a 3-4 and the opposing team runs a sweep to the outside, that inside linebacker is NOT suppose to chase him? I never knew that. He's supposed to just stand there and hope the running back comes straight at him. I guess you learn something everyday. I'm glad we have some football experts around here so we can learn this valuable information

DcRy82
01-31-2010, 10:21 PM
Well, the only argument you constantly keep bring up is sideline to sideline, sideline to sideline, sideline to sideline... You act as is going sideline to sideline is the be all end all to being good at the next level. Which is very wrong, especially in a 3-4. Then you act as if McClain is terrible at going sideline to sideline, which he isn't he's good at it, not great, but good at it. Then of course you keep bringing up blitzing. Ok, he's not good of a blitzer, oh well. He's so good at other things, it really isn't that relevent, being blitzing from the middle isn't the be all end all to being a 3-4 ILB either... Oh, and he had 4 sacks this year, 3 last year so... He's not nearly as bad a blitzer as you make him out to be. If you came up with a good argument, that's one thing, but you have failed to bring up any valid points yet.

I've made plenty of good points, you obviously dont read everything. I've also said that he tackles high and he doesnt attack the LOS. Also that he's not a good blitzer at all. Also that he sits and allows lineman to come to him, then does a great job shedding the blocker 5 yards downfield and then making a high tackle after a gain that could have went for no gain.
You also make it out to sound like i'm saying McClain sucks when all i've said is that i dont see him as a top 10 pick. I think he is a good pro prospect just not top 10 quality... I kno i've said these things 3 times at least, not sure how you missed them. you obviously saw me say something about sideline to sideline 3 times, so why do you lack the ability to read the rest of my posts?

2413fanphins
01-31-2010, 10:24 PM
This is hilarious, some quality stuff and very educational I might add.

So if you play ILB in a 3-4 and the opposing team runs a sweep to the outside, that inside linebacker is NOT suppose to chase him? I never knew that. He's supposed to just stand there and hope the running back comes straight at him. I guess you learn something everyday. I'm glad we have some football experts around here so we can learn this valuable information



obviously you missed something... maybe it's because you can't read and digest information. maybe you've never watched a 3-4 scheme.

I'll go ahead and probably insult your intelligence by saying that obviously if the runner isn't down, there are 11 men responsible for bringing him down.

theres a thing called responsibilities in defensive schemes. if your having trouble with them, ask some friends. if you have none, google it.

2413fanphins
01-31-2010, 10:28 PM
I've made plenty of good points, you obviously dont read everything. I've also said that he tackles high and he doesnt attack the LOS. Also that he's not a good blitzer at all. Also that he sits and allows lineman to come to him, then does a great job shedding the blocker 5 yards downfield and then making a high tackle after a gain that could have went for no gain.
You also make it out to sound like i'm saying McClain sucks when all i've said is that i dont see him as a top 10 pick. I think he is a good pro prospect just not top 10 quality... I kno i've said these things 3 times at least, not sure how you missed them. you obviously saw me say something about sideline to sideline 3 times, so why do you lack the ability to read the rest of my posts?



here's a wild guess, the fact that you even slightly suggested a comparison between mcclain and crowder, albeit very slightly, is where you probably lost the majority of your audience.

for the record I hope your right though. I don't want him to be a top ten pick either. just the twelfth pick.

DcRy82
01-31-2010, 10:40 PM
Yea, I did compare their playing styles, and I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but they are very similar. They have the same strong points and the same weak points (for the most part), its just that McClain is a better prospect when you break down all their qualities and disabilities. I still think McClain is a mid first round pick, i just dont think he has top 10 ability, and neither do any of the other ILB prospects.

Clipse
01-31-2010, 10:43 PM
I've made plenty of good points, you obviously dont read everything. I've also said that he tackles high and he doesnt attack the LOS. Also that he's not a good blitzer at all. Also that he sits and allows lineman to come to him, then does a great job shedding the blocker 5 yards downfield and then making a high tackle after a gain that could have went for no gain.
You also make it out to sound like i'm saying McClain sucks when all i've said is that i dont see him as a top 10 pick. I think he is a good pro prospect just not top 10 quality... I kno i've said these things 3 times at least, not sure how you missed them. you obviously saw me say something about sideline to sideline 3 times, so why do you lack the ability to read the rest of my posts?
Tackles high I agree with. Can't really agree with him not attacking the LOS though. Not a good blitzer at all. He's not great, but he had 4 sacks this year and 3 last year, not bad for a ILB if you ask me. He's no Spikes as far as blitzing goes, that's for sure, but he's better than what we currently have. Don't agree with sits and waits for linemen either. We draft at 12th overall, no not seeing what top 10 has to do with this discussion. He's every bit a top 12 pick imo, top 15 no doubt. We'll just have to agree to disagree and wait until he wins DROY :).

DcRy82
01-31-2010, 10:44 PM
obviously you missed something... maybe it's because you can't read and digest information. maybe you've never watched a 3-4 scheme.

I'll go ahead and probably insult your intelligence by saying that obviously if the runner isn't down, there are 11 men responsible for bringing him down.

theres a thing called responsibilities in defensive schemes. if your having trouble with them, ask some friends. if you have none, google it.

hahahahaha, I'm really enjoying the fact that you are attempting to insult someone else's football knowledge when you are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT WRONG!
Yes, there are 11 men responsible, yes, players have gaps, but when a play flows outside EVERYONE PURSUES TO THE BALL! Yes, the backside DE is supposed to stay home, but a LB in ANY scheme is supposed to flow to the ball and beat the ball carrier to the corner NO MATTER WHAT! Have you EVER played football???

DcRy82
01-31-2010, 10:50 PM
Tackles high I agree with. Can't really agree with him not attacking the LOS though. Not a good blitzer at all. He's not great, but he had 4 sacks this year and 3 last year, not bad for a ILB if you ask me. He's no Spikes as far as blitzing goes, that's for sure, but he's better than what we currently have. Don't agree with sits and waits for linemen either. We draft at 12th overall, no not seeing what top 10 has to do with this discussion. He's every bit a top 12 pick imo, top 15 no doubt. We'll just have to agree to disagree and wait until he wins DROY :).


By all means, if he is a Dolphin, I hope he wins DPOY every year. If he's not, then just to spite you, i hope he never plays a down hahaha... Everyone is worried about him goin before we pick, so obviously a lot of people think he is a top 10 pick, so that's where that comes in. I just dont think he makes enough big plays to be taken ahead of someone like Bryant, Spiller, or Thomas. If those 3 are off the board then McClain would be my pick as well. The whole point of my argument is that I think we need a "playmaker" with our first round pick. Someone who will change games. We dont have any of those guys right now.

hooshoops
01-31-2010, 11:39 PM
Crowder has less than 5 sacks actually. 2.5 for his career. When i said "embarrassingly" crowder is better.. i was saying that it is embarrassing that there is someone worse than crowder at blitzing.. Implying that crowder is not a good blitzer, saying that crowder is actually a terrible blitzer by all measure and so is McClain. I also said that I think McClain will be a better pro than Crowder.. I have previously said both of those things so i'm not sure why you keep asking me about Crowder. All i said is that they play similar to each other and that IMO McClain isnt a "playmaker" at ILB and neither is Crowder. While McClain WOULD be an upgrade at ILB, i dont think he is worth a top ten pick and i would rather go after a playmaker on offense and hope for weatherspoon or spikes to be there in the 2nd (if we dont address it in FA).. The whole point to my postings has been that I dont think McClain is a playmaker (not a top 10 pick) and that the dolphins need to get a playmaker with their first pick.

BTW, McClain has a MUCH better DL (in comparison) in front of him than Crowder does, so i'm not sure why you brought up defensive fronts.

probably because our defensive front wasn't the problem in our defense...our secondary and lb play was...

while i agree we need playmakers i disagree that mcclain isn't one...

his junior year in 9 starts he had 66 tackles 7 tfl 2 sacks and 2 ints...

his sophomore year he had 14 starts 95 tackles 12 tfl 3 sacks 6 pass breakups 1 int and 2 forced fumbles

http://www.rolltide.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/mcclain_rolando00.html

and those junior stats i don't think even count the sec championship game or the national championship game both of which he was all over the field "making plays" and dominating the action...

Clipse
01-31-2010, 11:46 PM
probably because our defensive front wasn't the problem in our defense...our secondary and lb play was...

while i agree we need playmakers i disagree that mcclain isn't one...

his junior year in 9 starts he had 66 tackles 7 tfl 2 sacks and 2 ints...

his sophomore year he had 14 starts 95 tackles 12 tfl 3 sacks 6 pass breakups 1 int and 2 forced fumbles

http://www.rolltide.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/mcclain_rolando00.html

and those junior stats i don't think even count the sec championship game or the national championship game both of which he was all over the field "making plays" and dominating the action...
This. Not sure where we're getting the idea that McCLain isn't a playmaker but to each his own. He even has more sacks than Brandon Spikes, who most consider a very good blitzer.

hooshoops
01-31-2010, 11:50 PM
spikes seems to be a more effective guy coming out of college as a blitzer...but i don't think that mcclain can't do it or has "peaked" as a guy who can get to the qb...

the upside with mcclain is so damn high it's not funny...

and anyone who says mcclain cannot cover just has no idea what they're talking about...watch the tape and tell me the guys garbage in coverage...it's just not accurate...

tcolli17
02-01-2010, 03:11 AM
spikes seems to be a more effective guy coming out of college as a blitzer...but i don't think that mcclain can't do it or has "peaked" as a guy who can get to the qb...

the upside with mcclain is so damn high it's not funny...

and anyone who says mcclain cannot cover just has no idea what they're talking about...watch the tape and tell me the guys garbage in coverage...it's just not accurate...
That's because Spikes was asked to blitz alot, while McClain was not. It's all about scheme.

2413fanphins
02-01-2010, 10:29 AM
spikes seems to be a more effective guy coming out of college as a blitzer...but i don't think that mcclain can't do it or has "peaked" as a guy who can get to the qb...

the upside with mcclain is so damn high it's not funny...

and anyone who says mcclain cannot cover just has no idea what they're talking about...watch the tape and tell me the guys garbage in coverage...it's just not accurate...



it's probably apparent to DcRy82, that you've never played football.

you can't talk schemes and player responsibilities with the guy, evidently it just doesn't matter.

DcRy82
02-01-2010, 10:43 AM
I think mcclain is fine in coverage, never said he was bad, in fact never mentioned his coverage. I understand that spikes was asked to blitz more, but when mcclain did blitz he wasn't that effective. I understand schemes very well actually, that's why when someone tells me that an ilb doesn't need to be able to have good pursuit s2s it makes me laugh. But I don't say people probably never played jus b/c they disagree, I say that to people who say dumb things like pursuit not being important. I don't kno how many times I've gotta say that I like mcclain as a player but jus don't see him as top 10... everyone acts like I'm bashing the guy when all I'm doin is pointing out reasons I don't think he's top 10.

hooshoops
02-01-2010, 10:58 AM
i've played plenty of football...pursuit is important but so is gap responsibility etc...

lets talk further about coverage...

for example if you review enough of brandon spikes you will notice that spikes "in coverage" is primarily spikes 1 yard off the ball reading the qbs eyes and jumping the ball...not really manning up on anyone...usually responsible if anything for the back out of the backfield...

if you review enough of mcclain you will notice him actually having to turn and run with a te down the field or across the field and drop into zones...not standing at the los and just reading the qbs eyes...you will also notice that with mcclains outstanding instincts and film study when he reads a screen or pass to the rb in the flat he attacks and arrives usually right as the ball arrives...you don't gain many yards after the catch when mcclain is covering you...

now while spikes may be a solid cover lb it's really hard to say that because like i said i reviewed 4 or 5 games this year and those cuts the universal draft guys put together and i never really saw many instances where spikes was asked to turn and run down the field in coverage with a te so i can't really say what kind of feel he has for it...i can with mcclain

furthermore if your looking for a lb who's gonna be where he's supposed to be vs the run ie gap responsibility or maintain his coverage responsibilities mcclain is your guy...

for mye eyes spikes seems to be more of a freelance player...might make some big plays but gonna give up some big plays also...

2413fanphins
02-01-2010, 11:01 AM
it's just that the stats dont' back up your arguments. he has tfls is each of so and jr years. yet you say he rarely meets and the LOS and waits for plays to develope.

sacks are the same way. he shown he can break up passes, even pick the ball off.

it's debatable whether anybody is a top ten pick, thats because each person has a different opinion. but that debate would be about your only argument I would tend to agree with.

I think your a fool to question whether anybody on this forum has played ball. I would be willing to bet that over 95% of the posters on here have. That's just something somebody says when they have hurt feelings and get too defensive.

MrEd
02-01-2010, 11:03 AM
Yeah that's stilll how I feel. I saw some more vid on him, and he's more physical than I thought, but I still don't see that killer instinct in him. Like I said earlier, I do see it in Weatherspoon, Spikes, and Johnson though.

I have to wonder though, do you mean he looked identical to Crowder as in he lacks the killer instinct or was Crowder actually a smart player in college and somewhere along the line got dropped on his head and has no idea what he's doing now?

With that said, I still really have no complaints with McClain at 12, because I know he'll be a really good player wherever he goes. I just wouldn't be jumping off my couch, running around in excitement.

As in all of the above with Crowder. Crowder is "very" intelligent. Sparano went out of his way to say that Crowder at MLB is like having another 'coach' out there, he's that smart. Don't let Crowder's very funny sense of humor fool you, the guy knows his stuff. But yeah, I also agree with the if we select McClain at #12 I wouldn't be mad either, but not all that excited either...:lol: on that jumping off the couch and running around part. I've done that myself, that's why I find it so funny...:lol:

MrEd
02-01-2010, 11:08 AM
McClain is practically a coach on the field. These Crowder/McClain comparisons couldn't be more ridiculous.

Well, Sparano would :facepalm: at you then. Because I recall in a PC after a game Sparano mentioning that having Crowder at MLB is like having a coach out there 'he's that smart'. Coach's exact words. Sorry. Also, the slight difference with Weatherspoon and Vilma is that Weatherspoon is 10lbs heavier and can add a little more at that.

Im not saying that we are going to pick Weatherspoon, but I'd rather have him than McClain and Weatherspoon would upgrade us 'more' than McClain would. Because McClain would continue to struggle in pass coverage (which was one of our weaknesses this year) where Weatherspoon would improve us in that department.

I am Bane
02-01-2010, 11:15 AM
as of now my thoughts on mcclain:

i think he is an extremely strong LB that is definitely a play maker against the run. he sheds quick, he takes great angles, he gets into the backfield. he has good speed, lateral movement might need work, but he fills well with instincts and is a sure tackler.

We need a ILB next to Crowder, one that is active and can create in backfield... i want to look more into McClain obviously, watch film and all.... but as of now, if he is there for us 1st round, he would step right in and help us out no doubt!!!

MrEd
02-01-2010, 11:26 AM
Just a heads up for some posting in this thread................ A 3-4 ILB Doesn't have to go sideline to sideline like he's a 4-3 ILB.

If your a 3-4 ILB you have to have the size to take on the Oline and be able to run with a RB or TE 10 to 15 yards down the field before they inter the zone of the SS or FS.

All this talk of running sideline to sideline in 3-4 just shows that you don't understand football and really don't know what your talking about.

If that's true, that ILBs can be slow in the 3-4, then a lot of people here will be surprised when we don't select an ILB at #12. MIA may be looking (other than a trade down for a NT) for either an OLB, FS, or Dez Bryant if he drops at #12. Because aside from noticing that our ILBs were slow, so were our OLBs. Maybe that's where our FO will go. Who knows. Especially if we find a way to sign Dansby.

2413fanphins
02-01-2010, 12:39 PM
honestly, I see a NT signing as more probable than signing dez bryant. something about dez and his agent I think just won't settle with our FO. we don't need holdouts. one could only hope that if dez did land here, he wouldn't hold out but you just never know.

I want to breakdown the navy game a bit more. as I remember them winnning all the while fumbling two or three times.
I didnt' see the game, but I just want to see a game where mizzou's rush D was clobbered and see what exactly happened.

I love spoons size though. just need to do more homework as I don't much attention to the lower level big twelve teams.

2413fanphins
02-01-2010, 12:50 PM
If that's true, that ILBs can be slow in the 3-4, then a lot of people here will be surprised when we don't select an ILB at #12. MIA may be looking (other than a trade down for a NT) for either an OLB, FS, or Dez Bryant if he drops at #12. Because aside from noticing that our ILBs were slow, so were our OLBs. Maybe that's where our FO will go. Who knows. Especially if we find a way to sign Dansby.



I think it's true to an extent. I believe that they can get by with being slower... not necesarily SLOW. doesnt' really matter to me though anyway, because mcclain, the guy in question isn't slow. he's comparable to every LB I can think of coming out this year.

as much as I'd like dansby our FO has a problem signing FA on a top tier. even with the uncapped year I just don't see it happening.

I still think mcclain is the pick. he's smart. has decent speed. great size. and in the nfl he can study film as long as he'd like. and experience in what a lot of people consider a tough defensive system at alabama.

TheFloridaDude
02-01-2010, 07:11 PM
no your not the only one, im with you on that. to be perfectly honest, i think that our need at FS is MUCH higher than at LB.....and that's just talking about defensive needs....WR is still the teams #1 need and has been for years now.

the dolphins must give Henne a TRUE #1 dominant WR to help his development and put the final piece of the offensive puzzle together. Henne is the guy, we have GREAT rb's, a GREAT O line, decent TE's and a good SUPPORTING cast of recievers...

If D Bryant is there at 12 that is who Miami should take, he is the real deal, and will be a big time superstar in the NFL, he has all the entangables, size, and speed....yeah some character issues but so did Percy Harvin and he got his **** together this season.

If Bryant isn't there, I would go with a FS....either Griffin from Texas or Taylor Mayes from USC but it sounds like he's falling....


I just think WR and FS are bigger needs than LB right now, we can get JT to stay another year and draft LB next season.

Im tired of our WR situation, if we dont draft Bryant, we sure as hell better trade for Brandon Marshall or Anquan Boldin, but as long as Parcells is here, it aint gonna happen.

Go WR or FS....forget that DUD from Alabama. lol

foozool13
02-01-2010, 07:18 PM
Sporano and the entire coaching staff will do their due diligence and now that we have Nolan who knows exactly what a player like Patrick Willis looks like coming out of college, getting our next ILB will be a GREAT player..whether thats McClain or someone else.

TheFloridaDude
02-01-2010, 07:32 PM
oh yes because we can trust our FO with drafting...

you think Pat White was a good pick in the second round? what a ****ing joke!

Clipse
02-01-2010, 08:45 PM
Well, Sparano would :facepalm: at you then. Because I recall in a PC after a game Sparano mentioning that having Crowder at MLB is like having a coach out there 'he's that smart'. Coach's exact words. Sorry. Also, the slight difference with Weatherspoon and Vilma is that Weatherspoon is 10lbs heavier and can add a little more at that.

Im not saying that we are going to pick Weatherspoon, but I'd rather have him than McClain and Weatherspoon would upgrade us 'more' than McClain would. Because McClain would continue to struggle in pass coverage (which was one of our weaknesses this year) where Weatherspoon would improve us in that department.
No, not really. McClain is heads and shoulders above Crowder in that aspect. McClain is actually pretty good in pass coverage. The thought that Witherspoon is elite in pass coverage is ridiculous. Is he better than McClain, yes. But not by as much as people in this thread make it out to be. If I was running a 4-3, I would welcome Witherspoon with open arms. But we don't. And McClain is superior to Witherspoon as a 3-4 prospect when looking at the skillset and physical tools of the two.

Clipse
02-01-2010, 08:48 PM
If that's true, that ILBs can be slow in the 3-4, then a lot of people here will be surprised when we don't select an ILB at #12. MIA may be looking (other than a trade down for a NT) for either an OLB, FS, or Dez Bryant if he drops at #12. Because aside from noticing that our ILBs were slow, so were our OLBs. Maybe that's where our FO will go. Who knows. Especially if we find a way to sign Dansby.
McClain is not slow. For some reason people are failing to realize this. Maybe they haven't watched a bit of tape, or even seen McClain play at all, I don't know. You do not need to to have 4.4 speed to be an elite 3-4 ILB... Just like you don't need to be 6'4" to be an elite WR.

Clipse
02-01-2010, 08:57 PM
no your not the only one, im with you on that. to be perfectly honest, i think that our need at FS is MUCH higher than at LB.....and that's just talking about defensive needs....WR is still the teams #1 need and has been for years now.

the dolphins must give Henne a TRUE #1 dominant WR to help his development and put the final piece of the offensive puzzle together. Henne is the guy, we have GREAT rb's, a GREAT O line, decent TE's and a good SUPPORTING cast of recievers...

If D Bryant is there at 12 that is who Miami should take, he is the real deal, and will be a big time superstar in the NFL, he has all the entangables, size, and speed....yeah some character issues but so did Percy Harvin and he got his **** together this season.

If Bryant isn't there, I would go with a FS....either Griffin from Texas or Taylor Mayes from USC but it sounds like he's falling....


I just think WR and FS are bigger needs than LB right now, we can get JT to stay another year and draft LB next season.

Im tired of our WR situation, if we dont draft Bryant, we sure as hell better trade for Brandon Marshall or Anquan Boldin, but as long as Parcells is here, it aint gonna happen.

Go WR or FS....forget that DUD from Alabama. lol
I don't think anybody can argue that defense was the reason for more losses than our offense was. After all, we did break a franchise record for consecutive games scoring 30+ points. No, WR isn't a bigger need than LB. Not a bigger need than ILB. Not a bigger need than OLB. FS? Maybe. But considering we can get better at FS with addition by subtraction, meaning stop playing two SS's, I would say no, it isn't a bigger need. We need multiple upgrades at LB. Of course I also like Chris Clemons a lot and think he is our future at FS. Not to mention this is a fairly deep Safety class, where we can find one outside of the 1st round. Not to mention this is a very weak WR class.

Clipse
02-01-2010, 08:59 PM
oh yes because we can trust our FO with drafting...

you think Pat White was a good pick in the second round? what a ****ing joke!
Yea because 1 draft pick cancels out 2 full very good drafts. Nice logic. Not to mention you nor me know if Pat White will be a bust considering he's been in the league a whopping 1 season.

13_dolfan_13
02-01-2010, 10:05 PM
.......YES! the kid is a beast hes smart 2 this kid could run the defense for the next 12-15 years

hooshoops
02-01-2010, 10:43 PM
No, not really. McClain is heads and shoulders above Crowder in that aspect. McClain is actually pretty good in pass coverage. The thought that Witherspoon is elite in pass coverage is ridiculous. Is he better than McClain, yes. But not by as much as people in this thread make it out to be. If I was running a 4-3, I would welcome Witherspoon with open arms. But we don't. And McClain is superior to Witherspoon as a 3-4 prospect when looking at the skillset and physical tools of the two.

agreed

hooshoops
02-01-2010, 10:45 PM
i saw some pretty rough change of direction in the open field from chris clemons...like guy would put his foot in the ground and make a cut and clemons had major issues being able to do the same thing...like almost falling down and never getting within 3 yards of said ballcarrier despite the ballcarrier running downhill at him...

i don't know about clemons personally

DcRy82
02-02-2010, 01:15 AM
it's just that the stats dont' back up your arguments. he has tfls is each of so and jr years. yet you say he rarely meets and the LOS and waits for plays to develope.

sacks are the same way. he shown he can break up passes, even pick the ball off.

it's debatable whether anybody is a top ten pick, thats because each person has a different opinion. but that debate would be about your only argument I would tend to agree with.

I think your a fool to question whether anybody on this forum has played ball. I would be willing to bet that over 95% of the posters on here have. That's just something somebody says when they have hurt feelings and get too defensive.

Sorry bro, you most definately didn't hurt my feelings. And I dont think i've shown any signs of being defensive. I just continue to try and argue my point that I like McClain, just not more than Dez Bryant or E. Thomas. If those two are there, I think we should take them first. And if we lose Ronnie, I think Spiller should be our pick. If all of those players are gone, then I like McClain as our pick. But i'd like to take one of the first 3 guys and then take the best LB available with our 2nd pick. I'm still confused as to why you and hooshoops act like i'm calling McClain a mid rounder. I've just pointed out things that IMO are weaknesses. And its not as if i'm the only person who feels this way. The only thing I've said he is BAD at is blitzing.. The other things he does well, just some of the things not good enough to be top 10.. but again, that's my opinion and i dont feel like i'm completely off base like you are making it seem.. If i didnt kno any better I'd think you and McClain were seein each other the way you defend him and get all excited when someone says he's not great at something.. I dont kno, maybe you're not doin each other.. In that case, are you his dad or somethin?

I am Bane
02-02-2010, 01:25 AM
in this McClain thread there is massive talk on Dez Bryant...

OK DEZ.... if he ever fell miraculously to us, would you want to take such a hyped WR so early. think of all the busts. he has a lot of same types of character, and same types of skill sets then many of the busts in the NFL... look how quick many 1st rounders either had a short career, never fully made it, or jsut completely dissapeared at the WR spot.

i am not knocking Dez at this time... i am just asking, are you willing to take this pick for a prayer of obtaining that top WR?????

DcRy82
02-02-2010, 01:46 AM
I see your point, but you can say that about every single position in the draft. There are a number of players at each position that dont live up to their draft slot. Every pick is a gamble, there is no such thing as a sure thing in the draft. I would agree that LB's have a much higher success rate, but lets say that Bryant and McClain both live up to their hype and potential.. McClain would be a good pick, but I'd take Bryant.

2413fanphins
02-02-2010, 07:02 PM
I see your point, but you can say that about every single position in the draft. There are a number of players at each position that dont live up to their draft slot. Every pick is a gamble, there is no such thing as a sure thing in the draft. I would agree that LB's have a much higher success rate, but lets say that Bryant and McClain both live up to their hype and potential.. McClain would be a good pick, but I'd take Bryant.



the difference beign, most potential draft pics, didn't basically take a vacation all of last year.

DcRy82
02-02-2010, 07:48 PM
You're ignorant. As if he chose to sit out. And I can garuntee he has been workin his butt off trying to stay in the best shape possible. If deion is his mentor, deion won't let him throw away his potential. And do u really think its going to hurt his production? Crabtree's situation was worse, he picked things up just fine.

hooshoops
02-02-2010, 10:43 PM
Sorry bro, you most definately didn't hurt my feelings. And I dont think i've shown any signs of being defensive. I just continue to try and argue my point that I like McClain, just not more than Dez Bryant or E. Thomas. If those two are there, I think we should take them first. And if we lose Ronnie, I think Spiller should be our pick. If all of those players are gone, then I like McClain as our pick. But i'd like to take one of the first 3 guys and then take the best LB available with our 2nd pick. I'm still confused as to why you and hooshoops act like i'm calling McClain a mid rounder. I've just pointed out things that IMO are weaknesses. And its not as if i'm the only person who feels this way. The only thing I've said he is BAD at is blitzing.. The other things he does well, just some of the things not good enough to be top 10.. but again, that's my opinion and i dont feel like i'm completely off base like you are making it seem.. If i didnt kno any better I'd think you and McClain were seein each other the way you defend him and get all excited when someone says he's not great at something.. I dont kno, maybe you're not doin each other.. In that case, are you his dad or somethin?

so now you're calling me out...look i don't really care what value you have on mcclain...you made some statements about mcclain as a poor blitzer and playmaker that i countered and thought that there would be some decent discussion but you honestly didn't want to take it any further...so i dropped it...

i do find it kind of odd that even though you think mcclain will be a pretty good but not great player you have him 4th on your list behind bryant spiller and earl thomas of guys you'd rather have at pick #12...

maybe it's me but if i thought any of the guys i have as choices for pick #12 were not franchise players as prospects they wouldn't even be on my list period...not with a pick that high...

i'm looking for pro bowlers and playmakers with that top pick not "pretty good" anything...

2413fanphins
02-02-2010, 10:44 PM
You're ignorant. As if he chose to sit out. And I can garuntee he has been workin his butt off trying to stay in the best shape possible. If deion is his mentor, deion won't let him throw away his potential. And do u really think its going to hurt his production? Crabtree's situation was worse, he picked things up just fine.



I'm not ignorant at all. He hasn't played in a game In a LONG time. I work out everyday, I'm in great shape. I'm profusely doubting that I could go out for 60 minutes with no rust in a game.

how was crabtrees situation worse. Were it not for the holdout everything would have been fine.

I think it could adversely affect his production, which I hope you won't interpret to mean it would be irretrievably damaged.

hooshoops
02-02-2010, 10:50 PM
if anything this extra time that bryant has gotten to train for the combine etc is gonna benefit him...not hinder him...

more time to work with a speed coach to get a good takeoff down and proper head and arm usage for the 40...

more time to work drills specifically used at the combine and for strength and conditioning...

if bryant gets to camp on time just like all the other 1st rounders who sign within the first week of camp rust won't be an issue...at all

I am Bane
02-02-2010, 10:59 PM
2413 and DCR no need to attack eachother... you both state good points!!!

and i agree, you can say bust to many positions. but Dez scares me still, especially when WR's tend to be found a dime a dozen, found in later rounds.... maybe even found in the kid i been looking into before he blown up more antionally in the Senior Bowl (Mardy Gilyard)... there are others too to check out as well.

i would rather take a playmaking ILB to fit next to Crowder, cause we have been desperately missing that key position for way too long. if anything as well trade down a bit... a G- Iupati is very very interesting fo a pick... plus we need a NT for our 3-4 with our questionable and aging line-up as of now.

ILB is my number one this draft though... and plus Dez wise to go back to that, i doubt he will fall so low. a smaller Golden Tate would intrigue me more than him too!!!

DcRy82
02-02-2010, 11:11 PM
I wasn't calling you out. I was making mention that you and 2413 (shoot, now i just called him out, sorry bro) act as though I hate and completely dislike McClain as a prospect. But yea, I think McClain will be pretty good, he could end up being great. All I did was point out things that I saw that kept me from believing he is a top 10 pick. To me, a pretty good player is someone who has a nice long career, made it to a pro bowl or two(a player like a bart scott or lance briggs, just not an Urlacher or a Ray Lewis).. So yea, i would take a player like that at 12. I just think the other 3 guys i mentioned have potential to be GREAT. or at the very least GAMECHANGERS. That is why I have McClain in the conversation. He COULD end up being Crowder, or he could end up being very good, possibly great. Does that make sense?

2413, I'm pretty sure Dez Bryant is doing a different workout than you are bud. He's doing workouts that keep him in football shape as best as possible.
The reason Crabtree's situation is worse is because of this..
Crabtree got hurt before the combine. Couldnt work out until pro day. didnt do any of the offseason program, missed first 5 games. His break from football was just as long as Bryant's will be.
Bryant missed the final 9 or 10 games, but he had this entire time to get in shape, barring any injuries, he'll have the whole off season to get back into football shape. Every player is rusty after the off season. It wont take Bryant any longer than the average player to get back in shape. Players miss entire seasons due to injury, cant participate in the off season workouts, and still come back and contribute the following season (ronnie brown, greg cam, tom brady, edgerin james, willis McGahee coming out of college, drew brees, just to name a few we're all familiar with). With that said, I'm sure Dez Bryant will be just fine, and if nothing else, you'd assume he's pissed about missing the season and ready to go.

DcRy82
02-02-2010, 11:15 PM
I really like golden tate as well.

As i've said, I wouldnt be upset if we took McClain at all. I just like the other playmakers that "could" be there a little more than him because of potential. I also hope that weatherspoon lasts til the 2nd. As others have made mention of, I think he would complement crowder very well.

hooshoops
02-02-2010, 11:19 PM
dez bryant will be in shape at the combine and the individual workouts...if he's not he's just hurting himself...and that will raise a red flag for me...but i'm not concerned about him being not in shape at all...

this is where i have issue with terrence cody...you have the biggest job interview of your life and the one that can arguably set you up for life financially and you come to said job interview at 370 lbs and looking flabby and conditioning over the course of said interview rears it's ugly head despite your weight and conditioning being the one concern that everyone in your job market had coming in about you...

that's a red flag if i ever saw one...

I am Bane
02-02-2010, 11:21 PM
no no no no.... i did not mean it that way. you werent calling me out, i was just messing around!! sorry on confusion. i respect!!!!

and i agree McClain could become more of a Crowder type because he wase never a consistant threat in the backfield. BUT... he sheds so quick, and fills well ,and creates great angles. What he does will definitely help next to Crowder who pretty much is a smart leader/ILB... Ayodele i am sick of getting sucked in, cant shed, sealed and all throughout games. he will make his tackles way to deep beyond the scrimmage too often.

to add... McClain was awarded and rewarded often in a great defense, and coached by a great defensive coach. can't argue that. he was often spoken very highly as well as a film person, always working, watching, and learning to gain that edge... cant coplain on that!!!

and lets add one more thing... lets not discuss our own work-outs, our own abilities, cause i was destroyed in Denver at times trying to obtain a position.... and no matter what you do, us on these computer screen will never have the work ethics, abilities or all out desire these guys that make the NFL have. (where i worry of the Terrance Cody.... he may join us on these computers)





I wasn't calling you out. I was making mention that you and 2413 (shoot, now i just called him out, sorry bro) act as though I hate and completely dislike McClain as a prospect. But yea, I think McClain will be pretty good, he could end up being great. All I did was point out things that I saw that kept me from believing he is a top 10 pick. To me, a pretty good player is someone who has a nice long career, made it to a pro bowl or two(a player like a bart scott or lance briggs, just not an Urlacher or a Ray Lewis).. So yea, i would take a player like that at 12. I just think the other 3 guys i mentioned have potential to be GREAT. or at the very least GAMECHANGERS. That is why I have McClain in the conversation. He COULD end up being Crowder, or he could end up being very good, possibly great. Does that make sense?

2413, I'm pretty sure Dez Bryant is doing a different workout than you are bud. He's doing workouts that keep him in football shape as best as possible.
The reason Crabtree's situation is worse is because of this..
Crabtree got hurt before the combine. Couldnt work out until pro day. didnt do any of the offseason program, missed first 5 games. His break from football was just as long as Bryant's will be.
Bryant missed the final 9 or 10 games, but he had this entire time to get in shape, barring any injuries, he'll have the whole off season to get back into football shape. Every player is rusty after the off season. It wont take Bryant any longer than the average player to get back in shape. Players miss entire seasons due to injury, cant participate in the off season workouts, and still come back and contribute the following season (ronnie brown, greg cam, tom brady, edgerin james, willis McGahee coming out of college, drew brees, just to name a few we're all familiar with). With that said, I'm sure Dez Bryant will be just fine, and if nothing else, you'd assume he's pissed about missing the season and ready to go.

DcRy82
02-02-2010, 11:23 PM
I agree with your thoughts on both Dez and Terrence..

I really like Cody coming down the stretch of the season and he was on my top 3 of players i wanted to draft, but exactly what you said, when someone doesnt have the motivation or discipline to be in good shape for the senior bowl, it definately makes you question his drive. I will give him a second chance to show up in a little better shape in a couple weeks at the combine, but still would never use a 1st on him.

hooshoops
02-02-2010, 11:26 PM
he could come in at 345 lbs to the combine with feet like a ballerina but i'm still not bumping him too much higher cause of the concerns i have...

right now i have his value at pick #74

if he comes to the senior bowl having gained even 1 lb he comes completely off my board...

DcRy82
02-02-2010, 11:26 PM
no no no no.... i did not mean it that way. you werent calling me out, i was just messing around!! sorry on confusion. i respect!!!!

and i agree McClain could become more of a Crowder type because he wase never a consistant threat in the backfield. BUT... he sheds so quick, and fills well ,and creates great angles. What he does will definitely help next to Crowder who pretty much is a smart leader/ILB... Ayodele i am sick of getting sucked in, cant shed, sealed and all throughout games. he will make his tackles way to deep beyond the scrimmage too often.

to add... McClain was awarded and rewarded often in a great defense, and coached by a great defensive coach. can't argue that. he was often spoken very highly as well as a film person, always working, watching, and learning to gain that edge... cant coplain on that!!!

and lets add one more thing... lets not discuss our own work-outs, our own abilities, cause i was destroyed in Denver at times trying to obtain a position.... and no matter what you do, us on these computer screen will never have the work ethics, abilities or all out desire these guys that make the NFL have. (where i worry of the Terrance Cody.... he may join us on these computers)

LOL at your comment about Cody. But I was talkin about Hooshoops when i mentioned the calling out thing bro, not you.

I am Bane
02-02-2010, 11:33 PM
lol... what is funny is a typed the terrance cody joke in there and sent it... afterwards i noticed the hooshoops comments right before it. basically perfect timing!!!

just as of now, we are so far away from the actual draft, i still McClain or trade down.... those are my thoughts. if we can get an extra two round and a later one, that would be sweet. so much we can obtain then!!!

OG- Iupati
WR- Gilyard
DT- Ordick, Carrington, Dan Williams (still looking into these guys)
CB- though we dont really are in need... Kyle Wilson and Perrish Cox have REALLY REALLY impressed me!!!





I agree with your thoughts on both Dez and Terrence..

I really like Cody coming down the stretch of the season and he was on my top 3 of players i wanted to draft, but exactly what you said, when someone doesnt have the motivation or discipline to be in good shape for the senior bowl, it definately makes you question his drive. I will give him a second chance to show up in a little better shape in a couple weeks at the combine, but still would never use a 1st on him.

2413fanphins
02-03-2010, 05:52 PM
dez bryant will be in shape at the combine and the individual workouts...if he's not he's just hurting himself...and that will raise a red flag for me...but i'm not concerned about him being not in shape at all...

this is where i have issue with terrence cody...you have the biggest job interview of your life and the one that can arguably set you up for life financially and you come to said job interview at 370 lbs and looking flabby and conditioning over the course of said interview rears it's ugly head despite your weight and conditioning being the one concern that everyone in your job market had coming in about you...

that's a red flag if i ever saw one...


I may have been misunderstood or just plain wasn't clear enough with what I said. I don't think he'll be out of shape. I would imagine he will be in the best shape of his life. my concern is having not played a game in so long. I also don't like his choice of agent. minor things maybe, but concerning nonetheless. If he falls to us after looking spectacular at pro day and the combine, I'd be happy. I'd love to land mcclain, but I couldnt' blame the FO if they took dez over bryant. although, I just have a hunch they won't.