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RHoffman
01-30-2010, 06:26 PM
Brandon Graham
Is one heck of a player. If I can't get Mclain at 12, I might be tempted. That is laMarr Woodley.

Pinkboy
01-30-2010, 06:29 PM
Well Parcells always preferred Michigan players over Bama guys.

I wouldn't complain if we took Graham over McClain.

Graham just SCREAMS NFL difference maker to me.

baseballcb95
01-30-2010, 06:45 PM
trade down for himm..

miami71
01-30-2010, 06:49 PM
Stay at 12 and take McClain or Spiller!

Pinkboy
01-30-2010, 07:17 PM
So Wake at strongside OLB and Graham on weakside ?

Or Graham at strongside and give Wake a shot at the weakside ?

RHoffman
01-30-2010, 07:22 PM
There a lot of talented backers this year. I would try to get at least 2. Maybe3

2413fanphins
01-30-2010, 07:48 PM
how well does he play on his feet? he's a DE right, so he spends most of his time in a 3pt stance. he has been an animal today though. He would be a great replacement for JT if he translates to a OLB. but maybe DE is better for him.

Hate to spend another early pick on a DE, but I'd love him as a LB.

he's been a machine today.

utahphinsfan
01-30-2010, 07:52 PM
So Wake at strongside OLB and Graham on weakside ?

Or Graham at strongside and give Wake a shot at the weakside ?

Graham might better against the run. IMO, he'd be the SOLB & Wake @ WOLB where he could primarily rush the passer.

Spicy Henne
01-30-2010, 07:52 PM
Depending on how the first 11 picks shake out, this guy has to be in the mix for us at 12.

I don't care what his measurables are. Talk about a complete player.
Woodley 2.0

Love his attitude too

Pinkboy
01-30-2010, 08:06 PM
Did you just see how incredibly fluid Graham looked there when he looped around behind the QB and came back to make that tackle upfield in space??

What a play !!!

So many players at 260 pounds would have ridden their momentum out of that play.

This guy Graham just has it. End of discussion.

baseballcb95
01-30-2010, 08:08 PM
Im perfectly fine with him at 12 now.

Pinkboy
01-30-2010, 08:09 PM
Yeah but Jacksonville really needs a pass rusher badly. REALLY BAD.

Watch them select Graham ahead of us now after this MVP performance.

Something always screws us over.

What's worse is Graham skyrocketed his stock against a Sparano coached team !

:crazy:

MP-Omnis
01-30-2010, 08:17 PM
Well the South O-line was pretty much garbage. Graham is money though.

finner
01-30-2010, 08:18 PM
Graham's stubby arms will be an issue in the NFL. He reminds of a slightly more athletic version of Roth... he went against a very soft OT today...

zodiak
01-30-2010, 08:18 PM
Guys Im trying to be the voice of reason here, I watched the entire game, please tell me one play where Graham dropped into coverage?,covered a back in the flats? stood in a 3-point stance and rushed the passer?

He didnt thats right, so how can you assume he can play OLB?

C.Wake is a superior athlete to Graham and he struggled to transition to OLB,what would posses anyone to spent the 12th pick OVERALL on a player that has serious question marks as a LB?

He is not Merriman or Ware phyiscally and thats why Woodley was drafted so low size matters in the NFL, I have said Im not trying to diss Graham I am just trying to be realistic, to me Graham looks more like D.Freeney than Woodley, and thats a 4-3 DE and not a 3-4 OLB.

hooshoops
01-30-2010, 08:20 PM
you are being the voice of reason but you're also assuming that just because he didn't play in space or standing up today that he can't do it...

and really none of us know if he can or not...until we see him take reps in lb drills

PhinPhan910
01-30-2010, 08:50 PM
I think you guys are getting ahead of yourselves.. one game shouldn't make him automatically our first round pick. I would NOT pick him over dez bryant or rolando mcclain, if anything i would trade down to get him..

Awsi Dooger
01-30-2010, 08:58 PM
Guys Im trying to be the voice of reason here, I watched the entire game, please tell me one play where Graham dropped into coverage?,covered a back in the flats? stood in a 3-point stance and rushed the passer?

He didnt thats right, so how can you assume he can play OLB?

C.Wake is a superior athlete to Graham and he struggled to transition to OLB,what would posses anyone to spent the 12th pick OVERALL on a player that has serious question marks as a LB?

He is not Merriman or Ware phyiscally and thats why Woodley was drafted so low size matters in the NFL, I have said Im not trying to diss Graham I am just trying to be realistic, to me Graham looks more like D.Freeney than Woodley, and thats a 4-3 DE and not a 3-4 OLB.

He looks like a Colts style DE, which I think is tremendous packaging but I'm not sure what good it does us in the concession laden 3-4. All day I saw guys who projected beautifully to 4-3 but were guesswork forces in a 3-4. Weatherspoon is another.

BTW, I loved Weatherspoon's sideline interview. Sounded much more articulate and quicker minded than McLain. Small sample, I concede, and I don't know how it will translate to something like Wonderlic, but I always cringe when the player we draft simply doesn't sound like someone I'd pluck out of an interview session.

IMO, Graham is a far superior athlete to Wake and certainly to Roth. There's no way either of those guys could instantly redirect to the outside and make a stop on a running play, like Graham managed in the first half.

Pinkboy
01-30-2010, 09:06 PM
Yeah Graham has great hips.. All the great 3-4 OLB's had hips like a swivel.

The best hips I've ever seen at that position was Lawrence Taylor. It was also why I hated Gholston as a prospect. He had the hips of my grandfather.

Back to Graham. Those plays where he redirected the way he did was phenomenal. I really don't know what people are watching when they undervalue this guy, but he has the goods in spades.

What he did at Michigan was incredible. He had no one on defense to help him, he commanded all the attention from opposing offenses, and most of the time offenses steered away from him running plays to the other side... and he still was the best player on the field.

He has unhuman like strength, great explosion, great hips to redirect amazingly well for a 260 pound man, excellent hands and knows how to use them. He has very good technique and is very smart on top of all that. Can beat an OT in many different ways.

No, this is not off of one game. This is from watching him in college at Michigan, and watching him dominate all week. He has been simply unblockable.

He never takes plays off. His motor is off the hook. Watch his Michigan game tapes as Mayock just mentioned in the post game, and he NEVER takes plays off. He is full boar on every play. The dude is relentless !

Moreover, he is very good against the run. So that shouldn't affect his OLB possibilities. And 3-4 OLB's aren't asked to do much in coverage, not compared to ILB's. Demarcus Ware sucks in coverage, but that doesn't stop him from being a consummate pro bowler every year and one of the most dominating defensive players in the league.

Now let's talk about size:

James Harrison is just 6 feet tall.. Graham is an inch taller than Harrison and 12 pounds heavier. Graham is also the same size as Woodley when Woodley came out.

So there's your two OLB's for the best defense in the NFL last season. A 3-4 defense. One of them the defensive player of the year last season.

If anyone here tries to tell me they wouldn't take Harrison and Woodley as their OLB's right now I'll slap them silly ;)

zodiak
01-30-2010, 09:20 PM
[quote=Greyboy;1063312465]Yeah Graham has great hips.. All the great 3-4 OLB's had hips like a swivel.

The best hips I've ever seen at that position was Lawrence Taylor. It was also why I hated Gholston as a prospect. He had the hips of my grandfather.

Back to Graham. Those plays where he redirected the way he did was phenomenal. I really don't know what people are watching when they undervalue this guy, but he has the goods in spades.

What he did at Michigan was incredible. He had no one on defense to help him, he commanded all the attention from opposing offenses, and most of the time offenses steered away from him running plays to the other side... and he still was the best player on the field.

He has unhuman like strength, great explosion, great hips to redirect amazingly well for a 260 pound man, excellent hands and knows how to use them. He has very good technique and is very smart on top of all that. Can beat an OT in many different ways.

No, this is not off of one game. This is watching him in college at Michigan, and watching him dominate all week. He has been simply unblockable.

He never takes plays off. His motor is off the hook. Watch his Michigan game tapes as Mayock just mentioned in the post game, and he NEVER takes plays off. He is full boar on every play. The dude is relentless !

Moreover, he is very good against the run. So that shouldn't affect his OLB possibilities. And 3-4 OLB's aren't asked to do much in coverage. Demarcus Ware sucks in coverage, but that doesn't stop him from being a consummate pro bowler every year and one of the most dominating defensive players in the league.

Now let's talk about size:

James Harrison is just 6 feet tall.. Graham is an inch taller than Harrison and 12 pounds heavier. Graham is also bigger than Woodley. Same height but weighs more.

If anyone here tries to tell me they wouldn't take Harrison and Woodley as their OLB's right now I'll slap them silly ;)[/qu



I would take them yes because they proved they can play OLB but your making it seem that its not a question he can, I can look at all the game film I want until you see him play as a LB its still an assumption yes there are athletic requirements but the fact is just because you say he can and you said Gholsten couldnt doesnt mean Graham CAN.

I like him ok I do but some fans here are being a bit unrealistic about how good he is, he has some draw backs, as for the tackles in the back field thats no way to measure if he can cover a RB or TE,so what he "redirects well" in the backfield the RB has no blocking not the same as defending in space where a RB/TE has room to run.

Pinkboy
01-30-2010, 09:25 PM
What you're missing is that you can say that for ANY 4-3 DE in college. Your argument is a weak one because 3-4 OLB's mostly played 4-3 DE in college.

And you cannot compare the "open space movement" between Graham and a guy like Pierre-Paul, another guy (4-3DE/3-4OLB) slotted to go in the top 15.. And you can't compare Graham to Derrick Morgan in space when you watch them move, another 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB slotted to go in the top 15 (in the mocks).

it is clear as day that Graham is more athletic than both of those guys. Anyone who can't see that is just blind.

And OLB's aren't asked to cover TE's in a 3-4 defense. The responsibility in coverage for OLB's is not nearly as big as ILB's in a 3-4. Your overstating it.

If OLB's are covering the RB's and TE's as you state, then who the heck are the ILB's and safeties covering in man-to-man coverages?

Come on man.

The area a OLB is asked to cover , and the amount of traffic he is asked to cover, is not like those other positions.

zodiak
01-30-2010, 09:38 PM
What you're missing is that you can say that for ANY 4-3 DE in college. Your argument is a weak one because 3-4 OLB's mostly played 4-3 DE in college.

And you cannot compare the "open space movement" between Graham and a guy like Pierre-Paul, another guy (4-3DE/3-4OLB) slotted to go in the top 15.. And you can't compare Graham to Derrick Morgan in space when you watch them move, another 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB slotted to go in the top 15 (in the mocks).

it is clear as day that Graham is more athletic than both of those guys. Anyone who can't see that is just blind.

And OLB's aren't asked to cover TE's in a 3-4 defense. The responsibility in coverage for OLB's is not nearly as big as ILB's in a 3-4. Your
overstating it.

My point isnt weak, because we havent seen Graham do it!!!!

until he show he can you cant just say he can,the many post about Cam Wake just walking in and being a starter those folks were wrong, he might do it(I sure hope so) but until a player does you cant just assume they will.

I never tried to make the arguement using Morgan or PP you did but the reason those players have a higher grade at this point(based on these "mocks" is because they have the preffered size.

Look Im not saying undersize LB's cant play and excelle, what Im saying first and formost I wanna see a guy do what he will be asked to do in the NFL, secondly there is a reason the 2 players you refrence Harrison & Woodley went where they did because they are not the proto type for the position.

Thats not my idea thats the NFL

Awsi Dooger
01-30-2010, 09:38 PM
And you can't compare Graham to Derrick Morgan in space when you watch them move, another 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB slotted to go in the top 15 (in the mocks).

it is clear as day that Graham is more athletic than both of those guys. Anyone who can't see that is just blind.

That's one name that scares me when I see him rated so high, in the Dolphin range, Morgan.

I completely agree, no comparison.

Hughes is a different type player but I also prefer him to Morgan.

Pinkboy
01-30-2010, 09:46 PM
what Im saying first and formost I wanna see a guy do what he will be asked to do in the NFL

Well then hell, we shouldn't ever draft 3-4 OLB's because the vast majority of the successful ones were 4-3 DE's in college.

That's why you scout. And work players out.

But I think he can definitely do it. And be a damn fine 3-4 OLB for a 3-4 team.


secondly there is a reason the 2 players you refrence Harrison & Woodley went where they did because they are not the proto type for the position.The point is they ARE good.. Now, in the NFL.


Thats not my idea thats the NFLyes, they're great in the NFL. Good enough to win defensive player of the year in fact.

Pinkboy
01-30-2010, 09:50 PM
Robert Ayers I didn't feel would be a good 3-4 OLB. A 3-4 team drafted him and he didn't show much last season.

Now that's a guy who should be a 4-3 DE.

Reason- he doesn't have those unique hips an OLB needs to do those jobs.

Graham has the hips. His hip movement and swivel is great.. He has the smarts, THAT's FOR SURE. And the athletic mobility and ability ( and strength against the run).. to be a damn good OLB in a 3-4.

If you want to see which 4-3 DE's will translate well to OLB in a 3-4.. You ALWAYS study the hips.

munchkin
01-30-2010, 09:53 PM
Well then hell, we shouldn't ever draft 3-4 OLB's because the vast majority of the successful ones were 4-3 DE's in college.

That's why you scout. And work players out.

But I think he can definitely do it. And be a damn fine 3-4 OLB for a 3-4 team.

The point is they ARE good.. Now, in the NFL.

yes, they're great in the NFL. Good enough to win defensive player of the year in fact.



Spot on analysis, I agree completely

Clipse
01-30-2010, 10:03 PM
I like Graham. Not more than McClain who's a much, much safer pick, but I like him. Personally if we were going for an OLB, I'd rather trade down and get Jerry Hughes, but I won't complain if we land Graham at #12 at all (unless McClain is still on the board of course).

Pinkboy
01-30-2010, 10:06 PM
I really think OLB is a higher priority for the front office crew than ILB.

You have to remember that Parcells always builds his defenses around a pass rusher (and a pass rush)

I truly feel that they feel that a young pass rushing complete OLB is a lot harder to find than a good ILB, and I have an inkling they think they can fill the ILB spot elsewhere (either FA or later in the draft).

The high paid guys in a 3-4 defense are the OLB's, that's because they make the 3-4 really go. Baltimore had no problem letting Bart Scott go to resign Terrell Suggs.

Scott's are a lot easier to find than guys like Suggs. So I think if we go linebacker in the 1st round it will be OLB, knowing how Parcells works.

You have a much better chance of getting those difference making OLB's in the 1st round. And can get ILB's that fit your team other ways.

Astrosback
01-30-2010, 10:10 PM
At 1.12 Dez and Rolando are likely to be gone so we sure as hell are looking at Brandon Graham with our 1st b/c he could be BPA and fill biggest need.

Imagine if we get lucky and Cody slips to round 2...

1.) Brandon Graham
2.) Terrence Cody
3.) Marshawn Gilyard
4.) Micah Johnson

Something like that...

Clipse
01-30-2010, 10:10 PM
I really think OLB is a higher priority for the front office crew than ILB.

You have to remember that Parcells always builds his defenses around a pass rusher (and a pass rush)

I truly feel that they feel that a young pass rushing complete OLB is a lot harder to find than a good ILB, and I have an inkling they think they can fill the ILB spot elsewhere (either FA or later in the draft).

The high paid guys in a 3-4 defense are the OLB's, that's because they make the 3-4 really go. Baltimore had no problem letting Bart Scott go to resign Terrell Suggs.

Scott's are a lot easier to find than guys like Suggs. So I think if we go linebacker in the 1st round it will be OLB, knowing how Parcells works.

You have a much better chance of getting those difference making OLB's in the 1st round. And can get ILB's that fit your team other ways.
Karlos Dansby comes to mind. I just like Jerry Hughes a little more than Brandon Graham, not at #12 though of course.

Clipse
01-30-2010, 10:11 PM
At 1.12 Dez and Rolando are likely to be gone so we sure as hell are looking at Brandon Graham with our 1st b/c he could be BPA and fill biggest need.

Imagine if we get lucky and Cody slips to round 2...

1.) Brandon Graham
2.) Terrence Cody
3.) Marshawn Gilyard
4.) Micah Johnson

Something like that...
Cam Thomas > Cody :)

finfan54
01-30-2010, 10:23 PM
Beware Bill Belichick and his 3 second rounders. some stupid *** team always falls for the BB move.

Astrosback
01-30-2010, 10:25 PM
This draft looks really good for LBs. I know they like Ronnie for the wc but if he opts out to be a RFA, it would be tempting to tender him for a 2nd rounder and see if/hope someone signs him away from us.

Imagine if we could get...

1.) Brandon Graham OLB Michigan
2.) Sean Weatherspoon ILB Missouri
3.) Cam Thomas NT UNC
4.) Jeremy Williams WR Tulane

But it depends what we do in FA with NT. Is Jason Ferguson going to play one more?

Not gonna be a lot of NTs out there b/c I think Wilfork, Hampton, Franklin and Pickett all get franchised or signed long term.

It's an uncapped year so the best players will be kept and underperformers will be cut loose with not concern for cap hit.

Astrosback
01-30-2010, 10:30 PM
Cam Thomas > Cody :)

I don't know about that. Cody may look like Aunt Jemima but he does lock down two blockers and he dominated pretty much all NCAA centers he faced.

But b/c it's close (Mt. Cody and Cam Thomas), Cody could slip to round 2.

I guess it's gonna depend a lot of what we do in FA.

Will it be easier to fill LB, NT, WR or TE in FA?

If they can't get a great LB or NT in FA, then maybe they fill WR (Antonio Bryant?) and TE (Ben Watson?) in FA and go all defense in the draft.

munchkin
01-30-2010, 10:35 PM
This draft looks really good for LBs. I know they like Ronnie for the wc but if he opts out to be a RFA, it would be tempting to tender him for a 2nd rounder and see if/hope someone signs him away from us.

Imagine if we could get...

1.) Brandon Graham OLB Michigan
2.) Sean Weatherspoon ILB Missouri
3.) Cam Thomas NT UNC
4.) Jeremy Williams WR Tulane

But it depends what we do in FA with NT. Is Jason Ferguson going to play one more?

Not gonna be a lot of NTs out there b/c I think Wilfork, Hampton, Franklin and Pickett all get franchised or signed long term.

It's an uncapped year so the best players will be kept and underperformers will be cut loose with not concern for cap hit.


That draft would be amazing,
I'm on board saying football players are football players. People who question whether Graham could play OLB or if Weatherspoon is too small to play inside in a 3-4 just need to look at history. A damn good football player figures it out.

Clipse
01-30-2010, 10:37 PM
I don't know about that. Cody may look like Aunt Jemima but he does lock down two blockers and he dominated pretty much all NCAA centers he faced.

But b/c it's close (Mt. Cody and Cam Thomas), Cody could slip to round 2.

I guess it's gonna depend a lot of what we do in FA.

Will it be easier to fill LB, NT, WR or TE in FA?

If they can't get a great LB or NT in FA, then maybe they fill WR (Antonio Bryant?) and TE (Ben Watson?) in FA and go all defense in the draft.
Cody's weight issues are too much to overlook. I would imagine ILB is the easiest position to fill in FA. Tons of very good RFA ILB's, with Dansby being a very good UFA. WR is filled with very good RFA's, with Bryant being the best UFA. At NT you have some very good UFA's in Wilfork, Franklin, and Hampton. Relatively poor TE class, I can't see Owen Daniels hitting FA, Scheffler is next best.

SRM
01-30-2010, 10:39 PM
Beware Bill Belichick and his 3 second rounders. some stupid *** team always falls for the BB move.

He has 3 AGAIN?

What the ****..

Pinkboy
01-30-2010, 10:40 PM
We will know if McClain or a safety is in play well before the draft.

Just look at the FA's we sign and the trades (if any) we make.. and players we let go. That should cut down the possibilities for the draft.

My money is they will go OLB in round one as there are more options in free agency for other areas. And BP always builds his defenses around a pass rusher (and pass rush). The NT position could change that though

So instead of banging your head about the possibilities for the draft, just wait until March when our intentions will show more clearly.

Astrosback
01-30-2010, 10:41 PM
Cody's weight issues are too much to overlook. I would imagine ILB is the easiest position to fill in FA. Tons of very good RFA ILB's, with Dansby being a very good UFA. WR is filled with very good RFA's, with Bryant being the best UFA. At NT you have some very good UFA's in Wilfork, Franklin, and Hampton. Relatively poor TE class, I can't see Owen Daniels hitting FA, Scheffler is next best.

Wilfork, Franklin and Hampton will be/can be franchised. I think Franklin will get a long term deal. Wilfork and Hampton are already threatening to hold out if franchised.

We could try to trade for one of them. But I don't know what trade chips we have beside Ronnie, maybe Merling and maybe Ginn as a throw-in.

Clipse
01-30-2010, 10:45 PM
We will know if McClain or a safety is in play well before the draft.

Just look at the FA's we sign and the trades (if any) we make.. and players we let go. That should cut down the possibilities for the draft.

My money is they will go OLB in round one as there are more options in free agency for other areas. And BP always builds his defenses around a pass rusher (and pass rush). The NT position could change that though

So instead of banging your head about the possibilities for the draft, just wait until March when our intentions will show more clearly.
I think Cam Wake can be that pass rusher. Obviously having a Brandon Graham/Jerry Hughes on the other side won't hurt but I'd probably jump off a bridge if we went into the season with Crowder/Ayodele/Torbor as our ILB's.

Astrosback
01-30-2010, 10:52 PM
We will know if McClain or a safety is in play well before the draft.

Just look at the FA's we sign and the trades (if any) we make.. and players we let go. That should cut down the possibilities for the draft.

My money is they will go OLB in round one as there are more options in free agency for other areas. And BP always builds his defenses around a pass rusher (and pass rush)

So instead of banging your head about the possibilities for the draft, just wait until March when our intentions will show more clearly.

True that FA moves and/or trades will dictate the draft. But it's fun to predict.

Is it true that Tuna and Antonio Bryant "made up"?

B/c last I heard, Bryant threw a dirty towel at Tuna in DAL practice one day.

But Tuna supposedly hated She Glenn and then next thing you know Tuna brought Glenn with him to another team.

I think we'll be looking at trading for Boldin, Wilfork, Hampton but in the end, we won't be willing to give up the picks.

So maybe we'll sign Karlos Dansby and Antonio Bryant and then draft...

1.) Brandon Graham
2.) Sean Weatherspoon
3.) Cam Thomas
4.) Matt Tenant C/G (noticed Donald Thomas having to rotate last year?)

Then look for some WR and TE help late...

6a.) Ed Dickson TE Oregon
6b.) Shay Hodge WR Ole Miss

That doesn't give us a lot of upside on offense but our D would be much improved.

j-off-her-doll
01-30-2010, 11:52 PM
I've been on the B. Graham bandwagon since last year. In my mind, he's the best prospect at SSOLB. I posted a write up a while back talking about why I think he'd be better for us than Kindle, Sapp, or Hughes.

zodiak
01-31-2010, 12:11 AM
Well then hell, we shouldn't ever draft 3-4 OLB's because the vast majority of the successful ones were 4-3 DE's in college.

That's why you scout. And work players out.

But I think he can definitely do it. And be a damn fine 3-4 OLB for a 3-4 team.

The point is they ARE good.. Now, in the NFL.

yes, they're great in the NFL. Good enough to win defensive player of the year in fact.


You took everything I said out of context so have fun with your bandwagon for B.Graham.

The point I made is that to just state because a guy can change direction on a rb trapped in the backfield proves he can cover a pass route is ill-logical to me, seeing him drop into a zone or run with a back ok then you have an idea.

they being woodley & Harrison are good players sure but they werent cant miss players Harrison was released by minnesota I think, woodley a 2nd rnd pick where if Graham went great, in fact he should go higher like larry english did last year but not the #12 overall.

The NFL comment was the GM & scouts look for 3-4 OLB to be 6-3,6-4 with long arms, not me I could care less.

munchkin
01-31-2010, 12:23 AM
You took everything I said out of context so have fun with your bandwagon for B.Graham.

The point I made is that to just state because a guy can change direction on a rb trapped in the backfield proves he can cover a pass route is ill-logical to me, seeing him drop into a zone or run with a back ok then you have an idea.

they being woodley & Harrison are good players sure but they werent cant miss players Harrison was released by minnesota I think, woodley a 2nd rnd pick where if Graham went great, in fact he should go higher like larry english did last year but not the #12 overall.

The NFL comment was the GM & scouts look for 3-4 OLB to be 6-3,6-4 with long arms, not me I could care less.

Not sure bringing up Harrison and Woodley is a good idea to make your point. Comparing Graham to 2 phenomenal players is not a good reason to pass him up at #12.

It sounds like your point is the NFL shouldn't put so much emphasis on height

zodiak
01-31-2010, 01:01 AM
Not sure bringing up Harrison and Woodley is a good idea to make your point. Comparing Graham to 2 phenomenal players is not a good reason to pass him up at #12.

It sounds like your point is the NFL shouldn't put so much emphasis on height


originaly I never used those players another poster brought them into the mix, yea my point has and always had been Graham might be a great player, but the evaluation of him as a OLB is incomplete and any suggestion that he can play at this point is an assmption that at #12 Im not sure is worth the risk.

He does look to me a better fit as a 4-3 DE, can he play in the NFL looks like he can but just because other players with similar short commings have had success doesnt assure any team drafting Graham he can be a success.

And if he is drafted by miami great I'll be his biggest fan,but my god after one game against very poor talent on the OL he is being made ROTY already.

Pinkboy
01-31-2010, 07:10 AM
In my opinion Brandon Graham is one of the safest picks in the draft. And I added a new signature just to piss some of you guys off ;)

Brandon Graham scouting report from draftcountdown:

First of all, Brandon Graham ran a 10.9 100 meter dash in high school. And was the #1 Linebacker recruit in the country.

I think at the DE spot, even OLB in a 3-4, a long-limbed player is preferred. I said before, however, that I don't expect his short arms to hinder him inside in a 3-4, and to be honest, at OLB, I don't know that it would hold him back as a player as much as it would hold him back as a "prospect."

What we see so far are the most average attributes Graham possesses, his size measurements. I've always said I'm not crazy about the Woodley comparison, because I don't think Graham gets his due there. Brandon went into Michigan as the #1 Linebacker recruit in the country. He was presumed to have the physical skill-set, instincts, and ability to run in space to play ILB at an elite level. Now, the guy got very heavy his first few years and it became clear his role was going to be on the Defensive Line for the Wolverines.

Trying to block this guy without at least a Running Back or Tight End chipping is one of the toughest things I can think of. Graham is extremely explosive off the snap, has an eye for the football, and makes plays in the backfield (even against Big Ten OL that are 5 inches taller and 70 pounds heavier than him.) This guy plays up to competition and gave both Iowa (Bryan Bulaga) and Wisconsin (Gabe Carmini) fits. In Graham's three biggest Big 10 competition's (Ohio State-Iowa-Wisconsin), he totaled 27 Tackles 12.5 TFL 6 Sacks.

He's explosive, he uses his hands well, he has a variety of pass-rushing moves, and gets off blockers very well. What I need to see from him to verify the Top 15 label I have slapped on him, will be how he tests this week and at the Combine in space. He's tremendous at finding the football, is a team vocal leader, and has developed a great work ethic in practice and the weight room. Graham also possesses a non-stop motor, and uses leverage and core strength better than any DE in college football.

Most people don't know the reputation he possesses in the college world as a Workout Warrior. Graham is thick, he's chiseled, and he's going to make a splash in Indianapolis this year. He's a very explosive athlete on the field and off it, he should run a decent 40, should do well with his short-area quickness tests, and I'll come forward and say I 99% expect him over 30 bench reps, perhaps as high as 35 or so.

His football character is flawless. Earlier in his college career, Graham had very questionable weight problems that put his career in doubt, though he did find a way to be successful at any weight at any position. Eventually, he slimmed back down and found his home at Defensive End. No DE or defensive player has been as good as he has the past two years in the Big Ten. He's smart, he leads vocally, and leads by example on and off the field. He has an intricate knowledge of the game and possesses elite intangibles for the defensive side of the ball.

He made OL much bigger than himself look silly this past week, and I almost predicted that months ago. He's a special talent and it should show on a national scale this week. Brandon Graham may have been lost in the Rich Rod era, which brought a negative media outlook toward the Michigan program, but he definitely was a guy that was game-planned against. A Top 15 talent in my mind, with no business getting out of the Top 20. NFL teams can be a bit superficial, so I understand that it's not a guarantee he'll go quite that high. Still, I am confident in my analysis in Graham and believe he'll be a Pro Bowl player at the next level at OLB or ILB (maybe line up on the edge on passing downs.)

Pros
o + Explosive off the snap and quick to the backfield
o + Finds the ball well in space and in traffic
o + Core Strength - has anchor strength and plenty of upper body power
o + Plays with very impressive leverage, capable of moving the biggest OL
o + Uses a variety of pass-rush moves and excels getting to the QB
o + Non-stop motor, never quits and is an intimidator on the front line
o + Tremendous work ethic on the field, in the weight-room, and in the film room
o + Football instincts and intangibles are top notch for a defensive player
o + Elite College Production, officially the Michigan MVP last two years
o + Thick, chiseled physique
o + Top vocal leader on the field
o + Very Durable, played in 47 games at Michigan

MP-Omnis
01-31-2010, 08:01 AM
He ran a 10.9 in HS? Holy ****.

Pinkboy
01-31-2010, 08:50 AM
This was during the week of practices:

Green Bay Packer Report

Who was the best player on the field? Leading the way is Michigan lineman Brandon Graham, who has been unblockable while rushing off the edge.

Practice for Saturday's Senior Bowl continued here in Mobile, Ala., with the North and South teams practicing in full pads.

Brandon Graham, DE, Michigan: At 6-foot-1 and 263 pounds, Graham has a body reminiscent of Pittsburgh's James Harrison, the 2008 NFL defensive player of the year. Graham is absolute lightning in a bottle when coming off the edge as a pass rusher.

During one-on-one pass-rushing drills, sometimes the winner and loser isn't clearly defined. Not so with Graham, who won all four of his matchups with startling ease. Twice, he blew inside touted tackle Vladimir Ducasse. Then he flew around Zane Beedles with outside speed before beating him again with a spin to the inside.

Teams are lining up to talk with him, including the Pats, he seems to favor the Steelers, because of his close friendship with Lamarr Woodley, IF it was up to him.

^ Ducasse is a 1st round offensive lineman. And Graham absolutely raped Bryan Bulaga, Graham just absolutely dominated him all game long in the passing game and against the run. And Bulaga is seen as a top 16 pick at OT by many people.

Let's even take it a step further. Graham has pretty much victimized every OT he has faced in his career. And in a complete manner - in the passing game and against the run. It's very hard to find a more complete player than Graham at the collegiate level, who consistently plays at a very high level against any and all competition he faces.

All this when defenses were purposely running plays away from him, and he was still a difference maker. Even yesterday the Dolphins coaching staff ran plays away from him 80% of the time... they know how good he is. And that didn't stop Graham from dominating.

And take into account how often Graham was doubled and even triple teamed in college playing in the Big 10. And he still produced at a high level. Graham is going to be a beast in the NFL. He just has that "IT" factor, in spades.

He's just an elite All-Around football player. If Graham went to Alabama and played in Saban's defense instead of that crappy Michigan defense, people now would be comparing him to Suh and Berry as the best overall (and complete) defensive prospects in the draft. I am confident in saying that.

When you're unblockable 1-on-1 you're unblockable 1-on-1.


http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2010/01/BrandonG-1.jpg

3rdandinches
01-31-2010, 10:05 AM
In my opinion Brandon Graham is one of the safest picks in the draft. And I added a new signature just to piss some of you guys off ;)

Brandon Graham scouting report from draftcountdown:

First of all, Brandon Graham ran a 10.9 100 meter dash in high school. And was the #1 Linebacker recruit in the country.

I think at the DE spot, even OLB in a 3-4, a long-limbed player is preferred. I said before, however, that I don't expect his short arms to hinder him inside in a 3-4, and to be honest, at OLB, I don't know that it would hold him back as a player as much as it would hold him back as a "prospect."

What we see so far are the most average attributes Graham possesses, his size measurements. I've always said I'm not crazy about the Woodley comparison, because I don't think Graham gets his due there. Brandon went into Michigan as the #1 Linebacker recruit in the country. He was presumed to have the physical skill-set, instincts, and ability to run in space to play ILB at an elite level. Now, the guy got very heavy his first few years and it became clear his role was going to be on the Defensive Line for the Wolverines.

Trying to block this guy without at least a Running Back or Tight End chipping is one of the toughest things I can think of. Graham is extremely explosive off the snap, has an eye for the football, and makes plays in the backfield (even against Big Ten OL that are 5 inches taller and 70 pounds heavier than him.) This guy plays up to competition and gave both Iowa (Bryan Bulaga) and Wisconsin (Gabe Carmini) fits. In Graham's three biggest Big 10 competition's (Ohio State-Iowa-Wisconsin), he totaled 27 Tackles 12.5 TFL 6 Sacks.

He's explosive, he uses his hands well, he has a variety of pass-rushing moves, and gets off blockers very well. What I need to see from him to verify the Top 15 label I have slapped on him, will be how he tests this week and at the Combine in space. He's tremendous at finding the football, is a team vocal leader, and has developed a great work ethic in practice and the weight room. Graham also possesses a non-stop motor, and uses leverage and core strength better than any DE in college football.

Most people don't know the reputation he possesses in the college world as a Workout Warrior. Graham is thick, he's chiseled, and he's going to make a splash in Indianapolis this year. He's a very explosive athlete on the field and off it, he should run a decent 40, should do well with his short-area quickness tests, and I'll come forward and say I 99% expect him over 30 bench reps, perhaps as high as 35 or so.

His football character is flawless. Earlier in his college career, Graham had very questionable weight problems that put his career in doubt, though he did find a way to be successful at any weight at any position. Eventually, he slimmed back down and found his home at Defensive End. No DE or defensive player has been as good as he has the past two years in the Big Ten. He's smart, he leads vocally, and leads by example on and off the field. He has an intricate knowledge of the game and possesses elite intangibles for the defensive side of the ball.

He made OL much bigger than himself look silly this past week, and I almost predicted that months ago. He's a special talent and it should show on a national scale this week. Brandon Graham may have been lost in the Rich Rod era, which brought a negative media outlook toward the Michigan program, but he definitely was a guy that was game-planned against. A Top 15 talent in my mind, with no business getting out of the Top 20. NFL teams can be a bit superficial, so I understand that it's not a guarantee he'll go quite that high. Still, I am confident in my analysis in Graham and believe he'll be a Pro Bowl player at the next level at OLB or ILB (maybe line up on the edge on passing downs.)

Pros
o + Explosive off the snap and quick to the backfield
o + Finds the ball well in space and in traffic
o + Core Strength - has anchor strength and plenty of upper body power
o + Plays with very impressive leverage, capable of moving the biggest OL
o + Uses a variety of pass-rush moves and excels getting to the QB
o + Non-stop motor, never quits and is an intimidator on the front line
o + Tremendous work ethic on the field, in the weight-room, and in the film room
o + Football instincts and intangibles are top notch for a defensive player
o + Elite College Production, officially the Michigan MVP last two years
o + Thick, chiseled physique
o + Top vocal leader on the field
o + Very Durable, played in 47 games at Michigan


Graham said himself he expects to put up atleast 40 reps at 225 during the combine.