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Pat-London
02-02-2010, 11:18 AM
It has been well documented that BP/JI/SP like certain body types etc. at certain positions. Given that we have a new DC and that Nolan had success with an undersized LB in Dumervil (sp) and also players who this organisation let go for whatever reasons in Andre Goodman and Renaldo Hill. And also considering the increase in prominence of the passing game, how does this translate into what type of players now get drafted for this organisation.


Does the 275lbs SOLB approach as in Matt Roth (some here are mentioning Merling at SOLB) continue. Does the DC come in having to fit what could be round pegs ( e.g. fatboyslim Cody) into his scheme’s square holes. Doesn’t he want to bring more pressure this year? Will QB’s have time to see the bigger LB’s i.e. 275lbs+ coming on a blitz as it takes them slightly longer than say a 6’1” 252lb Eric Norwood?


It’s an interesting debate. Will this have been one such item that may change the way the organisation are now thinking.


Don’t forget, a great man once said re bot being allowed draft the players he wanted to do the job he wanted… If you’re going to cook the meal, they at least better let you buy the groceries. Or words to that effect. Now who was he???

Will BP be another Robert Craft and force a Cody/Spiller/Edrick/McClain etc. pick at 12 if the new coaching staff don’t really think those players fit what they want… especially on the defensive front as Nolan is a relative outsider, yes I know he was on a BP staff before but it doesn’t make him one of BP’s guys.

Names used are for example purposes only.

TedSlimmJr
02-02-2010, 11:52 AM
Well it doesn't really matter who the defensive coordinator is....you have to apply pressure to opposing offenses...you have to generate a pass rush...

If you don't have the players to get it done....find some...

I find the aspect of attempting to play Merling's fat *** at OLB quite amusing to be honest...I don't think it happens...

Someone like Brandon Graham immediately becomes the best tackler and pass rusher Miami has on defense from the day he steps foot on the facility...I don't care if he's 6'1"....

Rolando McClain immediately becomes the best tackler and playmaker in Miami's linebacker unit....and brings a unique blend of size, speed, and insticts to the position that you rarely see....along with a football acumen that hasn't been here since Zach Thomas was in his prime...

There are quite a few players in this draft who I like that I think would just about be the best players Miami has in the front 7 the instant they're issued a locker.....particularly at linebacker...Miami has utter garbage all across the board here...

The transition players....or "conversion" guys is where I can't really draw an accurate bead as far as what's going to transpire......if Everson Griffen proves he can successfully make that type of conversion....he's a player I like that fits these Parcells "size requirements"......along with Sergio Kindle....Antonio Coleman....Cameron Sheffield...Koa Misi...Jammie Kirlew...Jason Worilds......the possibilities are endless....I could rattle off at least a dozen guys here...

Same goes for inside linebacker....A.J. Edds would immediately put a screeching halt to these TE's that constantly terrorize Miami's defense...

All I know is this....it's time to stop being hard headed and dismissing some of the best FOOTBALL players around because they're an inch shorter than you'd like....it's time to find some guys that can play football and get 'em in a Dolphin uniform...

...and we haven't even discussed the free agent options that might be available (Dansby, Ryans, etc.)...

j-off-her-doll
02-02-2010, 12:14 PM
It has been well documented that BP/JI/SP like certain body types etc. at certain positions. Given that we have a new DC and that Nolan had success with an undersized LB in Dumervil (sp) and also players who this organisation let go for whatever reasons in Andre Goodman and Renaldo Hill. And also considering the increase in prominence of the passing game, how does this translate into what type of players now get drafted for this organisation.


Does the 275lbs SOLB approach as in Matt Roth (some here are mentioning Merling at SOLB) continue. Does the DC come in having to fit what could be round pegs ( e.g. fatboyslim Cody) into his scheme’s square holes. Doesn’t he want to bring more pressure this year? Will QB’s have time to see the bigger LB’s i.e. 275lbs+ coming on a blitz as it takes them slightly longer than say a 6’1” 252lb Eric Norwood?


It’s an interesting debate. Will this have been one such item that may change the way the organisation are now thinking.


Don’t forget, a great man once said re bot being allowed draft the players he wanted to do the job he wanted… If you’re going to cook the meal, they at least better let you buy the groceries. Or words to that effect. Now who was he???

Will BP be another Robert Craft and force a Cody/Spiller/Edrick/McClain etc. pick at 12 if the new coaching staff don’t really think those players fit what they want… especially on the defensive front as Nolan is a relative outsider, yes I know he was on a BP staff before but it doesn’t make him one of BP’s guys.

Names used are for example purposes only.

Nolan was forced to use and undersized D last season. Denver had previous run an undersized 4-3. His success in Denver was in spite of the lack of size - not because of it. His Ravens' D's were not undersized.

3rdandinches
02-02-2010, 12:44 PM
Great coaches use what player they have to the best of the players abilities. Systems are great for a base principle but you need to be flexible to make sure the players can play in that system and if not how do adjust the system to get the most from that player. The coaches that are strickly system oriented will always struggle to find a complete team to fit with the changes to rosters every year and injuries.

Nolan schemes aren't personel based it's pressure based from every position on the field. Attacking from where you least expect it and constantly attacking all game long.

ChambersWI
02-02-2010, 12:59 PM
Dummerville was always a talented pass rusher, his lowest sack total in 4 years was 5. He just fit as an OLB a lot better than most thought he would. What killed Denver was Andra Davis, Mario Haggans, Ronald Fields, Kenny Peterson, and Ronald McBean stopped playing over their heads (and according to Denver fans, DJ Williams struggled too). Also, Denver's nickle defense was pretty bad this year so teams just spread them out.

A good scheme can only hide so many weaknesses. Nolan was able to hide the Front 7's deficiencies, but he couldn't hide that AND the nickle/dime/quarter defense problems.

hooshoops
02-02-2010, 01:26 PM
Great coaches use what player they have to the best of the players abilities. Systems are great for a base principle but you need to be flexible to make sure the players can play in that system and if not how do adjust the system to get the most from that player. The coaches that are strickly system oriented will always struggle to find a complete team to fit with the changes to rosters every year and injuries.

Nolan schemes aren't personel based it's pressure based from every position on the field. Attacking from where you least expect it and constantly attacking all game long.

that's true but you want to draft guys that fit your identity and philosophy (sp???)

case in point...you don't draft a zbs tackle if you want to have a ground and pound mauling power running game... etc...

it's the coaches jobs to get the most out of their preexisting talent regardless of system or try and unload players that don't fit for compensation to acquire players that do...

3rdandinches
02-02-2010, 01:30 PM
that's true but you want to draft guys that fit your identity and philosophy (sp???)

case in point...you don't draft a zbs tackle if you want to have a ground and pound mauling power running game... etc...

it's the coaches jobs to get the most out of their preexisting talent regardless of system or try and unload players that don't fit for compensation to acquire players that do...


Of course, but we're not gonna dump Starks, S.Smith, V.Davis, C.Wake because Nolan wants something different to work with. He'll make his system fit for these players and then plug in new guys as he sees fit.

hooshoops
02-02-2010, 01:36 PM
Of course, but we're not gonna dump Starks, S.Smith, V.Davis, C.Wake because Nolan wants something different to work with. He'll make his system fit for these players and then plug in new guys as he sees fit.

agreed...

phinfreak
02-02-2010, 03:01 PM
Great coaches use what player they have to the best of the players abilities. Systems are great for a base principle but you need to be flexible to make sure the players can play in that system and if not how do adjust the system to get the most from that player. The coaches that are strickly system oriented will always struggle to find a complete team to fit with the changes to rosters every year and injuries.

Nolan schemes aren't personel based it's pressure based from every position on the field. Attacking from where you least expect it and constantly attacking all game long.


Did Bill Walsh, a West Coast Offensive Systems inventor, struggle too?

Is Rex Ryan's defensive system hurt Baltimore and Jets?

To suggest that any scheme, whether offense or defense is not personel dependent is ignorance.

What is NE personel profile for their offense scheme, which is a 3 WR spread out of shotgun?

Do the Colts D scheme reflect the type of players they draft?

C'mon man!

Fins want to run the ball and stop the run, plain and simple. Parcells unfortunately believes that is best accomplished with large body types.

Too bad he doesnt value speed and explosiveness.

3rdandinches
02-02-2010, 04:39 PM
Did Bill Walsh, a West Coast Offensive Systems inventor, struggle too?

Is Rex Ryan's defensive system hurt Baltimore and Jets?

To suggest that any scheme, whether offense or defense is not personel dependent is ignorance.

What is NE personel profile for their offense scheme, which is a 3 WR spread out of shotgun?

Do the Colts D scheme reflect the type of players they draft?

C'mon man!

Fins want to run the ball and stop the run, plain and simple. Parcells unfortunately believes that is best accomplished with large body types.

Too bad he doesnt value speed and explosiveness.


R.Ryan didn't dump his roster to get the exact guys he wants he used the players that were already there and added some of his own to fit his system. That is my exact point, he didn't have a DR in Baltimore he had an Ed Reed and R.Lewis....did you see him dump Harris and Rhodes and bring in his guys? No, he filled in the gaps with his guys ala Scott, Leonard.

NE wasn't a shotgun, 3 WR spread everyone out team when they won their SUPERBOWLS, they we're a run first and play strong defense. BB adjusted his scheme as players changed and opportunities to get different calibre players arrived. Then take in account after drafting J.Mayo they started transitioning to a 43 from the 34, again adjusting to the players. Rex Ryan adjusted, BB adjusted just as Nolan will have to!

I have no idea where you read what you think I'm saying but of course you draft for your scheme, you don't dump great players already here because your base scheme is different. You adjust your scheme to fit the players as these coaches you presented to me had done.