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ckparrothead
02-02-2010, 06:20 PM
http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnists/hyde/blog/2010/02/breaking_down_the_draft_week_i_1.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+DaveHyde-blog+%28Dave+Hyde+%7C+Sun+Sentinel+blogs%29


Breaking down the draft, Week II: The Shrine Bowl

> Posted by Dave Hyde on February 2, 2010 03:14 PM

Last year, London draftnik Simon Clancy wrote the longest, most in-depth posts available examining the Dolphins needs leading into the NFL draft. This year, Simon will take turns with his cohorts at UniversalDraft.com , Richard Lines and Chris Kouffman.

Today, Chris gives an in-depth report on the East-West Shrine Bowl. Did I say in-depth? It's Tolstoy covering the Shrine game. You won't get more Dolphins-centric coverage anywhere

Last week, many a football fan tested out their home draft kits by breaking out the DVR, tuning into the NFL Network’s Senior Bowl coverage, and listening to Mike Mayock talk about draft prospects while the TV cameras set footage of Tim Terrific’s awful throw mechanics on loop, like some warped Holiday Yule Log channel straight out of a Tebow-phile’s worst nightmares. Not me. We’ll get to the Senior Bowl in due time, but I spent last week wading through a sea of data gathered from time spent the previous week in Orlando observing East-West Shrine practices, as well as the game itself, firsthand.

Hi, my name is Chris, and I have a problem.

Enjoy folks.

D-bolt
02-02-2010, 08:13 PM
Selfish self promotion....You are true American CK!!!!! Great stuff as always. By the way who is your Mark Anderson this year?

TedSlimmJr
02-03-2010, 06:33 AM
**** I'm dizzy after reading all that...

I absolutely agree with the scout and his points about the pumped up biceps on quarterbacks....and how it equates to the manner in which the football comes out...

This is one of the reasons (among many) as to why I never liked Brady Quinn at #9....I don't like rocked up quarterbacks....period...

I want the guys that are 6-3+....and have some weight on them....but I want the majority of that weight from the waist down...I want powerful legs in order to drive the football outside the numbers and downfield....and pencils for arms (Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Chad Henne, etc. etc.)..

Which is another reason (among many) as to why I've always viewed Tim Hiller as one of my favorite SENIOR quarterback prospects....particularly the less hyped and talked about ones....along with Levi Brown....

Great article...

hooshoops
02-03-2010, 10:04 AM
it's a very good article but you got to get this bad boy out at least before the senior bowl game and everyone who is paying attention turns the page...

not that i think getting it out before would be easy or anything...

ckparrothead
02-03-2010, 10:44 AM
The timing wasn't right for getting it out before the senior bowl. Last week was the first installment and that was Simon's rundown.

ckparrothead
02-03-2010, 10:48 AM
It wasn't really a scout that told me that big biceps take away from snap explosion in a throw or punch. It was something I brought up about Daryll when I was talking to Cecil Lammey of Draft Guys, and it's just a lesson I've picked up over time especially from having talked to people involved in MMA and boxing.

Chubby
02-03-2010, 10:51 AM
WOW! Still reading through, CK great Job as always. Pretty cool watching one of our own slowly become a well known Person!! (didnt really want to use the name Media Person).
Chubbs

ckparrothead
02-03-2010, 11:20 AM
I appreciate the kind words Chub.

It's just one guest blog. I've done several in the past for Ethan Skolnick. It's great pub for the site, UniversalDraft.com

RealDriscoll
02-03-2010, 11:52 AM
Good Stuff Chris.

RealDriscoll
02-03-2010, 11:55 AM
Chris,

I received some information reporting that the Dolphins are very high on Dez Bryant in addition to Odrick, Spiller, McClain, Spikes, Graham, Earl Thomas, and Gresham. What have you heard regarging Dez?

The guy I talked to also said that if the Dolphins had to pull the trigger today he thinks CJ Spiller would be the pick because of his abilities in two phases of the game.

My source weren't anyone on the Dolphins staff so I am not trying to act like I am Auri Gold but something with great knowledge of the draft prospects

ckparrothead
02-03-2010, 11:58 AM
I've heard nothing on that. I'm not really dialed in with anyone that could confirm or deny something like that.

Geforce
02-03-2010, 12:45 PM
That was good reading CK.

Maybe it's me but doesn't this sound a lot like what Adalius Thomas has done for most of his career in Baltimore and New England?


Right now he is one of the only players I can think of that can run a linebacker drill one minute, high-point a pass another minute, put his hand down at defensive end and rush the passer, then put his hand down at defensive tackle and hold his own against a double team on a run play.

j-off-her-doll
02-03-2010, 01:03 PM
Nice work. Can you see Hardy falling to the 3rd or even 4th? Obviously, his talent should dictate otherwise.

j-off-her-doll
02-03-2010, 01:06 PM
Chris,

I received some information reporting that the Dolphins are very high on Dez Bryant in addition to Odrick, Spiller, McClain, Spikes, Graham, Earl Thomas, and Gresham. What have you heard regarging Dez?

The guy I talked to also said that if the Dolphins had to pull the trigger today he thinks CJ Spiller would be the pick because of his abilities in two phases of the game.

My source weren't anyone on the Dolphins staff so I am not trying to act like I am Auri Gold but something with great knowledge of the draft prospects

Spiller adds instant explosion to the running game, but he has the ability to make a difference in the passing game as well. I can see him as a guy that runs and receives for over a thousand yards. If he's there at 12, he just gives us so many options - including picking up draft picks for Brown.

Geforce
02-03-2010, 01:07 PM
Nice work. Can you see Hardy falling to the 3rd or even 4th? Obviously, his talent should dictate otherwise.
Hardy's talent dictates first round but his injury history, as well as some other issues CK wrote about, could have him free falling to the 3rd round on draft day.

RealDriscoll
02-03-2010, 01:48 PM
I'd be all over Hardy in Round 3

hooshoops
02-03-2010, 02:34 PM
you guys now on a first name basis...lmao!!!

i don't know who's more dangerous...talent_scout or real???

:lol:

Tunaphish429
02-03-2010, 02:36 PM
If we did Take Spiller than we could have Brown and Spiller as a tandum that would be sick.. Dont see us taking Spiller that high..and I dont see us resigning Brown if we take Spiller.

We need D...Its really hard to tell now tho who is def worth the #12 pick..

I just dont see the value in taking Spiller there...He is the sexy pick tho..

Lord Of Miami
02-03-2010, 04:35 PM
Chris,

I received some information reporting that the Dolphins are very high on Dez Bryant in addition to Odrick, Spiller, McClain, Spikes, Graham, Earl Thomas, and Gresham. What have you heard regarging Dez?

The guy I talked to also said that if the Dolphins had to pull the trigger today he thinks CJ Spiller would be the pick because of his abilities in two phases of the game.

My source weren't anyone on the Dolphins staff so I am not trying to act like I am Auri Gold but something with great knowledge of the draft prospects

Driscoll,

In 2008 draft, i said Miami would draft a LT and a QB in the 1st three picks, then last year i was right about them drafting Sean Smith and i didn't find that out by other people or by people who work for the Dolphins because everthing Bill lets get out is 100% BS.So always keep that in mind.

Also Sean Smith agent said "on wqam" himself that Miami showed very lil interests in Sean before they drafted him.So if he didn't know they wanted Sean then no one did.

I on the other hand did think they liked him because they were showing no interests in him.......... because that's how Bill rolls and the the silence was deafening to me.

Anyways my point is any player you hear that the Dolphins like, just go a head and put a X by their name and know that we won't take them in the 1st round.

I'm not Nostradamus, but i moved to the NorthEast in 1993 and i know how Bill plays with the Mass Media before the draft and what kind of players he likes from all his passed drafts.

At the end of the day a Mock is just a guess, but it's better to have a educated guess then just looking for someone to leak you something that is 100% pure BS and then rumming with it.

Chubby
02-03-2010, 05:07 PM
Driscoll,

In 2008 draft, i said Miami would draft a LT and a QB in the 1st three picks, then last year i was right about them drafting Sean Smith and i didn't find that out by other people or by people who work for the Dolphins because everthing Bill lets get out is 100% BS.So always keep that in mind.

Also Sean Smith agent said "on wqam" himself that Miami showed very lil interests in Sean before they drafted him.So if he didn't know they wanted Sean then no one did.

I on the other hand did think they liked him because they were showing no interests in him.......... because that's how Bill rolls and the the silence was deafening to me.

Anyways my point is any player you hear that the Dolphins like, just go a head and put a X by their name and know that we won't take them in the 1st round.

I'm not Nostradamus, but i moved to the NorthEast in 1993 and i know how Bill plays with the Mass Media before the draft and what kind of players he likes from all his passed drafts.

At the end of the day a Mock is just a guess, but it's better to have a educated guess then just looking for someone to leak you something that is 100% pure BS and then rumming with it.
This would be a fun game to play. Lets keep track of every player we hear the dolphins are interested in and mark them off the list and lets see whose left a couple of days befor the draft.
Chubbs

ckparrothead
02-03-2010, 05:15 PM
We've done that before, it's not very productive. But it does fill the time leading up to the draft.

thejetssuck
02-03-2010, 05:46 PM
Great writing there CK!! I really look forward to reading what you guys have to say Senior Bowl players.

Roman529
02-03-2010, 06:57 PM
Excellent as always CK...although I still haven't read through your entire post. I think gauging how a QB will do in the pros is probably the most difficult position scouts/coaches have to look at....that's why a guy like Tony Romo wasn't drafted at all and Brady I believe fell to the 199th overall pick? You often have guys at smaller schools who get totally overlooked, or guys who have never played in a pro style offense despite the fact that they have the size and mechanics to play anywhere. You also have guys with fantastic skills who often are stuck behind 2 or 3 other guys, like many QBs who have gone to USC and they never get to show what they can do.

Mike Kafka looked really good in the Outback Bowl against Auburn, even though he got picked off a few times...I cant't remember how many throws he had but I think it was around 70 or 80? I thought it was the best bowl game of the past year. I think we definitely need an upgrade over Pat White as our #2 or #3 QB. Kafka reminds me a little of Drew Bledsoe but with better mobility then Bledsoe.....I don't think he is likely to be drafted on day one of the draft, but if he is around in the 5th round I would consider grabbing him.

ckparrothead
02-03-2010, 07:28 PM
Perfect timing. I'm very glad you brought up Kafka. I just put up a video of his.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJHekifJjy0

Probably best to let it download for a bit on pause before playing.

Anyway here's the thing I'd like to point out about Kafka's arm. It's actually sort of a negative and a positive at the same time, depending on how you look at it.

Arm strength isn't just about how fast your passes go. Anyone can look at Mike Kafka and John Skelton and immediately notice that Skelton's arm is better.

But does that mean his passes are traveling faster?

Not necessarily. This is why I keep bringing up the term "driving the football" when talking about Kafka. Skelton's arm may be bigger, but on most of these throws, Kafka's achieving nearly as good average velocity (within say 1 mph) because he uses his legs better than John Skelton. I've timed and measured these throws. I can tell you for certain that they're achieving comparable average velocity over comparable distances.

There isn't even a significant difference in the quickness of their delivery. The primary difference is that Skelton flicks the ball without really putting his legs into it as much. This means that if he runs into situations like the ones you see in the video where Kafka is rolling and has people in his face, and he can't get his feet under him, Skelton would probably still be able to flick the ball and get it to his receiver (provided he has the accuracy).

I think Kafka's a pretty underrated prospect. But you do have to keep in mind he's not very experienced. He's got about as much experience as Mark Sanchez did.

Boomer
02-04-2010, 08:34 AM
Driscoll,

In 2008 draft, i said Miami would draft a LT and a QB in the 1st three picks, then last year i was right about them drafting Sean Smith and i didn't find that out by other people or by people who work for the Dolphins because everthing Bill lets get out is 100% BS.So always keep that in mind.

Also Sean Smith agent said "on wqam" himself that Miami showed very lil interests in Sean before they drafted him.So if he didn't know they wanted Sean then no one did.

I on the other hand did think they liked him because they were showing no interests in him.......... because that's how Bill rolls and the the silence was deafening to me.

Anyways my point is any player you hear that the Dolphins like, just go a head and put a X by their name and know that we won't take them in the 1st round.

I'm not Nostradamus, but i moved to the NorthEast in 1993 and i know how Bill plays with the Mass Media before the draft and what kind of players he likes from all his passed drafts.

At the end of the day a Mock is just a guess, but it's better to have a educated guess then just looking for someone to leak you something that is 100% pure BS and then rumming with it.

Every player the Dolphins drafted last year, they'd visited with or worked out at least once.

Boomer
02-04-2010, 08:36 AM
Perfect timing. I'm very glad you brought up Kafka. I just put up a video of his.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJHekifJjy0

Probably best to let it download for a bit on pause before playing.

Anyway here's the thing I'd like to point out about Kafka's arm. It's actually sort of a negative and a positive at the same time, depending on how you look at it.

Arm strength isn't just about how fast your passes go. Anyone can look at Mike Kafka and John Skelton and immediately notice that Skelton's arm is better.

But does that mean his passes are traveling faster?

Not necessarily. This is why I keep bringing up the term "driving the football" when talking about Kafka. Skelton's arm may be bigger, but on most of these throws, Kafka's achieving nearly as good average velocity (within say 1 mph) because he uses his legs better than John Skelton. I've timed and measured these throws. I can tell you for certain that they're achieving comparable average velocity over comparable distances.

There isn't even a significant difference in the quickness of their delivery. The primary difference is that Skelton flicks the ball without really putting his legs into it as much. This means that if he runs into situations like the ones you see in the video where Kafka is rolling and has people in his face, and he can't get his feet under him, Skelton would probably still be able to flick the ball and get it to his receiver (provided he has the accuracy).

I think Kafka's a pretty underrated prospect. But you do have to keep in mind he's not very experienced. He's got about as much experience as Mark Sanchez did.

When I watch Kafla throw the deeper ball, it's clear he's putting everything into it - watch his follow through with his leg - I just would worry about accuracy down the field. But he throws some pretty passes.

Lord Of Miami
02-04-2010, 12:02 PM
Every player the Dolphins drafted last year, they'd visited with or worked out at least once.

I wasn't talking about players they meet with or talked to.I'm talking about the players that Bill has is friends in the Mass media leak out that he likes.

Like 2008 it was Joe Flacco and this passed year it was Clay Matthews.

Every year it's the same guys saying they know who Bill likes and thinking about taking and every year he never picks them in the draft and it's been going on for years and years.

ckparrothead
02-04-2010, 04:01 PM
When I watch Kafla throw the deeper ball, it's clear he's putting everything into it - watch his follow through with his leg - I just would worry about accuracy down the field. But he throws some pretty passes.

Exactly right. Where you're going to see the difference show up is on an individual throw basis. You get Kafka at an awkward body angle off a rollout, trying to arm it up to a guy 15 yards away, you might get a turf throw. Skelton will be able to get it up there, he just might now be accurate with it. Then on the deep throw, that ball that Kafka threw was about 55 yards as the crow flies and it was too far inside. Was that an isolated incident or something he's just not good at? The throw itself actually looked good and had a good arc, and it had better velocity at that distance than, for instance, Tony Pike gets on his throws at the same distance (I've timed a lot of these guys' throws). But, it wasn't accurate...and you wonder if that inaccuracy will persist for Kafka because of what he has to put on those long throws without a naturally big arm.

Then again, I'll be damned if an NFL quarterback's FUNCTIONAL distance, even as the crow flies, is beyond 40 yards.

Boomer
02-05-2010, 06:44 AM
I tell you a QB I like is Jonathan Crompton of Tennessee. He has touch, ability to get outside the pocket and a good deep ball.

ckparrothead
02-05-2010, 10:41 AM
I just threw up a little in my mouth.

TedSlimmJr
02-05-2010, 11:44 AM
I just threw up a little in my mouth.

:lol:

ckparrothead
02-05-2010, 12:02 PM
There's no doubt that Crompton has physical ability but there hasn't been a QB this year that has inspired more pure revulsion in me than Jon Crompton. I feel about him the way a lot of people feel about Jevan Snead.

TedSlimmJr
02-05-2010, 12:12 PM
I hear ya......I've just watched Crompton play excruciatingly bad for too long....but every now and then he'll get hot and you see that he's got some things to work with.....he's streaky..

Honestly, he's not even on my draft board as one of the top 18 quarterbacks in this draft....

Snead on the other hand..is....although he played like a UDFA this year...

I still don't know why he entered the draft this year....he's not ready by a long shot....but I think what may have pushed him out the door is the fact that Houston Nutt was going to have him on a short leash next year anyway and ready to move on with Nathan Stanley if his poor play continued...

On the other hand...it might be the smartest move Snead made all year....now he can go in the early/middle portion of the draft to some team with an established starter and let him sit and develope for a while without all the pressure and expectations heaped on him.....he's going to impress with his physical tools at the combine....it's from the neck up where ne needs plenty of time IMO....

ckparrothead
02-05-2010, 12:23 PM
I need to catch up on Levi Brown. It wouldn't be the first time a physically gifted QB prospect looked to me like he just didn't have "it" and then a year later suddenly "it" is there.

I've heard some things that suggest that a lot of teams wonder if Sam Bradford wants football. That's not what I want to be wondering about my franchise QB.

Tim Tebow's a disaster. I thought Colt McCoy had something but Mack Brown might have stamped it out. Tony Pike is Sage Rosenfels Redux. I haven't watched his Senior Bowl yet but I don't get the feeling that Dan LeFevour has the accuracy deep or outside the hash marks needed at the next level. You said it all about Jevan Snead.

Honestly, until you get down 'the list' to guys like Mike Kafka, Matt Nichols, Tyler Sheehan, Tim Hiller and Billy Cundiff...maybe Levi Brown once I've caught up to him a bit...I'm just not interested in this QB class.

hooshoops
02-05-2010, 01:15 PM
i'm using a late flier on skelton...i know you're not impressed ck but i'd use a late 7th round pick on that guy and see how he develops...big arm

TedSlimmJr
02-05-2010, 01:19 PM
Every year I make a list of overrated/underrated players at every position towards the end of the season and list a prospect or two that I think fits the description best...

Tony Pike and Tim Tebow were the two names in the overrated category of quarterbacks....(duh right?)..

LeFevour is a decent prospect IMO....but his ball really begins to lose some steam past 15-20 yards downfield...and I don't think he can make the "NFL caliber" throws on a consistent basis....kid can make some plays with his legs though....but he's nowhere near the prospect that his guady statistics would suggest IMO....it's amazing what these systems in college can do for quarterbacks....

I think Colt's best chance at a career in the NFL is to go to a team that runs a WCO where shorter, quicker throws can take advantage of his mediocre arm strength...quick release...accuracy and mobility...

There's really only 4-5 QB's that I like in this class....but it is a rare class in terms of the sheer number of 3 and 4 year starters in it....even if they don't project all that well to the next level...

When Ryan Perrilloux cracks my list.....I know it leaves a lot to be desired in terms of depth...

That Levi Brown guy......I think it would probably shock a lot of people how high he is on my board...

ckparrothead
02-05-2010, 01:27 PM
It's not even the WCO anymore, the NFL is flat out turning toward the spread and that is what could save Colt McCoy. If you were to tally the use of the shotgun on a total NFL basis from year to year I'd be willing to bet the trends have been steadily increasing for a while and shotgun use is higher than ever. Didn't Tom Brady take something ridiculous like 75% of his snaps out of the gun?

The shotgun and the west coast offense are traditionally mutually exclusive animals. I'm not saying WCOs don't use it now because they do, but that's because the whole idea of the WCO as a different animal from most other NFL offenses is coming to collapse. The WCO is basically now just a set of vocabluary for reading your playbook...rather than a cohesive and separate philosophy anymore.

I tend to think that Josh McDaniels could do a lot with either Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford.

TedSlimmJr
02-05-2010, 01:36 PM
I think that trend is more of a fad to be honest....I think it's going to start trending more back towards running the football....being balanced on offense...and having quarterbacks function from under center again...

I just think it makes you too quarterback dependent and one dimensional...and if your quarterback goes down to injury....you're screwed...

If you've got a Peyton...a Brady or a Brees...it makes sense...until he goes down...

I'm actually very fond of Bradford as a prospect...and I'm never fond of Bob Stoops quarterbacks in general....I'm not sure what his desires and wants are as far as football is concerned without talking to him myself...but he definitely should have come out last year....he was already maxed out as a prospect....he wasn't going to be better prepared for the NFL by spending another year in Stoops offense....makes you wonder if somewhere in his own mind if HE thinks he can do it....ya know?

ckparrothead
02-05-2010, 01:40 PM
That's what I mean. I thought I'd seen Jesus in cleats when I saw him his first year. Well on his way, just as Andrew Luck is this year. But staying another year, then other stuff he's said that makes people question how much he likes and wants football...that's a big issue. I'm not going to pretend I can know an answer on that without the tools to make a character evaluation...but it's a big obstacle to overcome, one he's made for himself.

TedSlimmJr
02-05-2010, 02:05 PM
Whenever you decide to study Levi Brown more....tell me who the first comparison you would liken him to pops in your mind...

ckparrothead
02-05-2010, 02:23 PM
Well that depends on how sacrilegious I'm feeling. But you know damn well he's got quicker feet and a little bit lower release point.

TedSlimmJr
02-05-2010, 02:26 PM
Along with more upside...

ckparrothead
02-05-2010, 02:31 PM
More upside than Dan Marino? I thought I was sacrilegious.

Maybe we're thinking of different comparisons though.

hooshoops
02-05-2010, 02:41 PM
hold on now...levi brown has more upside than dan marino??? i'm not even watching qbs but now you guys have peaked my interest...i gotta see this

TedSlimmJr
02-05-2010, 02:53 PM
Dan Marino?

Where'd the Marino comparison come from?

No guys....there's a prospect who Levi Brown is very, very, similiar to IMO....I'm just curious if he reminds CK of "this guy"...but with more upside as an NFL quarterback....

MrEd
02-05-2010, 02:56 PM
Chris,

I received some information reporting that the Dolphins are very high on Dez Bryant in addition to Odrick, Spiller, McClain, Spikes, Graham, Earl Thomas, and Gresham. What have you heard regarging Dez?

The guy I talked to also said that if the Dolphins had to pull the trigger today he thinks CJ Spiller would be the pick because of his abilities in two phases of the game.

My source weren't anyone on the Dolphins staff so I am not trying to act like I am Auri Gold but something with great knowledge of the draft prospects

I don't know. I keep seeing all these mock drafts and I just can't put wrap my mind around how they expect CJ Spiller to be there at #12? I personally am trying to see CLE pass on Spiller, but I can't. Right now, I have CJ Spiller going to the Browns at #7. :ponder:

Tunaphish429
02-05-2010, 03:09 PM
I don't know. I keep seeing all these mock drafts and I just can't put wrap my mind around how they expect CJ Spiller to be there at #12? I personally am trying to see CLE pass on Spiller, but I can't. Right now, I have CJ Spiller going to the Browns at #7. :ponder:

I love Spiller he is sick...But I dont know that teams vaule him that high...

Can you give me some info to make me think that he is worth that high of a pick?

Adrian Peterson was worth the 5th pick in the draft..Reggie Bush was taken #2...

Reggie in no way is worth that..Spiller is comparable to him.. Am I just disconnected?

Boomer
02-05-2010, 04:08 PM
Not that you've stopped being sick... I really don't mind Crompton. I'm not saying he's going to be the next Peyton Manning because he might well be the next Andy Kelly or Tee Martin, but he's still raw which is why he's streaky. He had mediocre help all season long from most everyone not called Montario Hardesty and if you get him in the right system, with the right coach, then you can chisel away at that big old rock. He's got as much value as most in the bunch of passers marked 'MEDIOCRE'.

Can't see the Jevan Snead fuss. Flamed out at Texas after failing to beat out McCoy, then played like a street free agent this past season. I agree that Denver would be a good landing spot for Colt McCoy. I'm not as down on him as Chris.

ckparrothead
02-05-2010, 04:21 PM
Dan Marino?

Where'd the Marino comparison come from?

No guys....there's a prospect who Levi Brown is very, very, similiar to IMO....I'm just curious if he reminds CK of "this guy"...but with more upside as an NFL quarterback....

The body, the hair, and the flick release. Marino with quicker feet and a little lower release point. Remember that Marino was supposed to be a "pusher" when he came out, and not because he was also supposedly a coke head.

Threw me off by saying "more upside" though. That's like, uhhh...damn.

You have to give me something to limit. I'm thinking historical or present QB. Now you're indicating future QB, as in you're thinking he reminds you of a different prospect in this NFL draft.

Dan Marino highlights (particularly look at the younger years)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTPFdn9uzj8

Levi Brown versus Southern Miss 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3pgLJdyBh0

j-off-her-doll
02-05-2010, 04:39 PM
I love Spiller he is sick...But I dont know that teams vaule him that high...

Can you give me some info to make me think that he is worth that high of a pick?

Adrian Peterson was worth the 5th pick in the draft..Reggie Bush was taken #2...

Reggie in no way is worth that..Spiller is comparable to him.. Am I just disconnected?

I don't know about taking a RB top 5, but I don't find Spiller comparable to Bush. Bush is a supreme talent who is unwilling to run the ball inside; he's a dancer, who wastes too much time, and he doesn't run as strong as he should (he's a strong guy). Spiller excels inside, has better vision, makes the one cut and gets upfield. Spiller looks to be an even better receiver than Bush, too.

TedSlimmJr
02-05-2010, 05:26 PM
The body, the hair, and the flick release. Marino with quicker feet and a little lower release point. Remember that Marino was supposed to be a "pusher" when he came out, and not because he was also supposedly a coke head.

Threw me off by saying "more upside" though. That's like, uhhh...damn.

You have to give me something to limit. I'm thinking historical or present QB. Now you're indicating future QB, as in you're thinking he reminds you of a different prospect in this NFL draft.

Dan Marino highlights (particularly look at the younger years)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTPFdn9uzj8

Levi Brown versus Southern Miss 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3pgLJdyBh0



Those Southern Miss highlights of Brown look like John Elway at Stanford....all the running around, improvising, etc...

If you really look at him...he does kinda favor a young Marino with the hair, face, etc...

I don't really view his release as a "push"....now Kyle Boller...that guy looked like he was shotputting the football....

In every draft I look for quarterbacks who can "flick" the ball with a quick release....but they don't come in every draft....there's so many quarterbacks that come out of college with a windup now that one that doesn't have it looks strange...

And the one's with enough arm strength to make all the throws WITHOUT having a windup are even more rare....I like the RPM's he puts on the football...it comes from his quick release...

His throwing mechanics don't need tinkering at all IMO which is what I like....get that delivery up just a tad and look out...

What he needs to work on is getting the ball out with better timing....when he gets the ball out right after he hitches...his accuracy increases bigtime...

The prospect he reminds me of from a throwing mechanics perspective is none other than the guy we've been talking about....Sam Bradford....who also has that low, sidearm delivery....they both need to get it up around three-quarters...but both can get away with it being 6'4"....Brown's body is more developed physically and more equipped to withstand hits IMO...

Brown throws the touch passes a lot better than people think too...he threw a spectacular touch pass in the endzone to Jernegen against Central Michigan that would have won the game....it went right through his arms...

Levi Brown >>> Dan LeFevour, Tim Tebow, Colt McCoy, Tony Pike, etc..etc.....as a pro prospect...

I have him behind only Clausen and Bradford on my board...

Tunaphish429
02-05-2010, 05:29 PM
I don't know about taking a RB top 5, but I don't find Spiller comparable to Bush. Bush is a supreme talent who is unwilling to run the ball inside; he's a dancer, who wastes too much time, and he doesn't run as strong as he should (he's a strong guy). Spiller excels inside, has better vision, makes the one cut and gets upfield. Spiller looks to be an even better receiver than Bush, too.

I watched the hurricane game that Spiller played in (Clemson)

Yea he looked really fast and dynamic but I just dont see him being a great inside running back..Just from what i know...which I admit may not be much....

I really hope we dont take him at #12 and I really cant see him going in the top 10...

I think most of the world was surprised to see Moreno go as high as he did last year... of course his timed speed was not as great..but he had far better production in college and was playing in the SEC..arguable the best conference..

ACC latley is not very good

MrEd
02-05-2010, 06:21 PM
I love Spiller he is sick...But I dont know that teams vaule him that high...

Can you give me some info to make me think that he is worth that high of a pick?

Adrian Peterson was worth the 5th pick in the draft..Reggie Bush was taken #2...

Reggie in no way is worth that..Spiller is comparable to him.. Am I just disconnected?

Well, I would say you answered your own question. Peterson went #5 and Bush went #2 and Spiller is probably going to be more heralded then Bush, especially after Chris Johnson did what he did.

Peterson's stock went up after scouts began to rumor that he may be better than Bush. Well, Spiller is another they are heralding as better than Bush and in the Chris Johnson mold.

Then, it only takes a team to select a player in the top 10. CLE needs a RB with Anderson retiring....and a young QB in Quinn. JMO. I'm sticking to my guns. Spiller to CLE at #7.

Tunaphish429
02-05-2010, 06:35 PM
Well, I would say you answered your own question. Peterson went #5 and Bush went #2 and Spiller is probably going to be more heralded then Bush, especially after Chris Johnson did what he did.

Peterson's stock went up after scouts began to rumor that he may be better than Bush. Well, Spiller is another they are heralding as better than Bush and in the Chris Johnson mold.

Then, it only takes a team to select a player in the top 10. CLE needs a RB with Anderson retiring....and a young QB in Quinn. JMO. I'm sticking to my guns. Spiller to CLE at #7.


Got ya..Browns my vaule him at that spot..your def right...

Cause I know the Browns wanted a first rounder, and Ronnie Brown for Braylon Edwards..(Rumor) So I was not sure if they vauled Rb's that high...

I know they have Holmgren their now but not so certain that he would select a rb that high when that was something that he has not really done with 1st round pick besides Shaun Alexander who was taken at #19...But everything changes..

Thank you for the answer

Boomer
02-06-2010, 03:41 AM
Those Southern Miss highlights of Brown look like John Elway at Stanford....all the running around, improvising, etc...

If you really look at him...he does kinda favor a young Marino with the hair, face, etc...

I don't really view his release as a "push"....now Kyle Boller...that guy looked like he was shotputting the football....

In every draft I look for quarterbacks who can "flick" the ball with a quick release....but they don't come in every draft....there's so many quarterbacks that come out of college with a windup now that one that doesn't have it looks strange...

And the one's with enough arm strength to make all the throws WITHOUT having a windup are even more rare....I like the RPM's he puts on the football...it comes from his quick release...

His throwing mechanics don't need tinkering at all IMO which is what I like....get that delivery up just a tad and look out...

What he needs to work on is getting the ball out with better timing....when he gets the ball out right after he hitches...his accuracy increases bigtime...

The prospect he reminds me of from a throwing mechanics perspective is none other than the guy we've been talking about....Sam Bradford....who also has that low, sidearm delivery....they both need to get it up around three-quarters...but both can get away with it being 6'4"....Brown's body is more developed physically and more equipped to withstand hits IMO...

Brown throws the touch passes a lot better than people think too...he threw a spectacular touch pass in the endzone to Jernegen against Central Michigan that would have won the game....it went right threw his arms...

Levi Brown >>> Dan LeFevour, Tim Tebow, Colt McCoy, Tony Pike, etc..etc.....as a pro prospect...

I have him behind only Clausen and Bradford on my board...

Interested in your take on Case Keenum. Obviously not coming out, but his accuracy and that hair trigger release I like a great deal, regardless of the system. A quick release is a quick release whether you run 2 TE, 2 backs, 1 WR sets or 5 wides.

TedSlimmJr
02-06-2010, 12:22 PM
Honestly, I don't view him as a legitimate NFL prospect Boom...

I don't know if he was considering coming out early or not....but his 6 INT performance against Air Force all but sign, sealed, and delivered him back to school for another year anyway IMO...

He does have a very, very quick and clean release....but his footwork is borderline atrocious, and his stats and completion percentage is obviously skewed by the gimmick offense.....to me he's the latest in a long line of undersized, unpolished, weak armed, system quarterbacks that fit in the same category as guys like Chang, Graham Harrell, Chase Daniel, Todd Reesing, etc....that just doesn't translate well to the NFL...

Usually what I do if I want to find a true measure of a QB's accuracy....go ahead and take out all of their throws under 10 yards....all the bubble screens and short passes, etc. that inflate their stats....and evaluate them on a throw for throw basis 12 or more yards downfield....I think most good quarterback evaluators in the NFL go about it in this manner...

I don't think he's as good of a prospect as Colt Brennan was...and I didn't even like Brennan...

Certainly nowhere near the QB prospect Kolb was coming out of Houston IMO....not even the same type of offense Kolb played in while in college....Kolb was more of an NFL QB prospect from a physical standpoint as well (6-3, 225) with a strong arm.....compared to the 6'0"-6'1"ish, 210ish pounds Keenum is carrying around....

I'm not sure how draftable of a prospect he is next year.....maybe some team could use a middle/late round pick on him....Personally, (and this is strictly my opinion) I think your guy Crompton is a better NFL prospect than Keenum...