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silvrwrx
02-03-2010, 01:42 PM
I read this morning that BP at the Senior Bowl said he wanted to add a receiving tight end this offseason. This is music to my ears. The TE position is huge in our style of offense or any offense for that matter. I say we cut lose Fasano and keep haynos and sperry and use 1 of our 3 early picks on a TE.

I know there are Fasano fans out there but i'm sorry he was terrible in 2009. He isnt a speedy TE who is a threat down the middle of the field...and thats what we need.

RockyMtnPhinfan
02-03-2010, 01:46 PM
Jimmy Graham was getting some good press at the senior bowl? Perhaps he stays in state and becomes a Dolphin?

AquaInferno
02-03-2010, 01:53 PM
Yeah I'm glad to see this Anthony Fumbsano was irritating in 2009

TedSlimmJr
02-03-2010, 01:53 PM
I could've sworn he said tight end and not a basketball player hoping to become a tight end...

I'll take Ed Dickson...

footsteps_falco
02-03-2010, 02:06 PM
I would like to see haynos get some more play time hes a threat especially in the redzone

dFinsRule
02-03-2010, 02:09 PM
I really like Aaron Hernandez from UF!

Mcganiel
02-03-2010, 02:30 PM
I really like Aaron Hernandez from UF!
Hes the best in this years class

23EmilioVasquez
02-03-2010, 02:34 PM
I would like to see haynos get some more play time hes a threat especially in the redzone

no he is not

I dont like Haynos at all all he brings to this team is height which he cant use

Quadfather
02-03-2010, 02:37 PM
How about Martellus Bennett from Dallas or Tony Scheffler from Denver? We now have ties to both of those teams.

23EmilioVasquez
02-03-2010, 02:39 PM
also if we got a pass catching i would keep Fasano

he played very well when David Martin was here as our Pass catching TE

Tunaphish429
02-03-2010, 02:41 PM
also if we got a pass catching i would keep Fasano

he played very well when David Martin was here as our Pass catching TE


Yea we missed Martin this year..I wonder if Nalbone can be that Pass cathing guy

Asicswrg85
02-03-2010, 02:41 PM
How about Owen Daniels? Thats who i want for sure

TheDon74
02-03-2010, 02:47 PM
BYU's Dennis Pitta (imho) he could be the next Dallas Clark/Jason Witten. He is a true receiving TE.

Also I'd love to keep Fasano for his blocking skills and I think when he's not asked to be the #1 receiving option at TE he can still have success in the passing game. When Martin was healthy Fasano found himself open much more. Plus we should be able to keep him pretty cheap.

Mcganiel
02-03-2010, 02:50 PM
Keep fasano. Man double tight end set swith him and hernandez would be sick.

FinsFan74
02-03-2010, 02:54 PM
Jimmy Graham will be a stud in this league...don't say I didn't warn you

truedolfan57
02-03-2010, 03:24 PM
I love how everyone want's to toss aside a player for dropping in production for a year. But love the guys when they perform to probowl form. I have a great idea, how about miami just drop every player that doesn't make the probowl. So we get to keep bell and carpenter. Who's going to be our QB next year?:rolleyes2:

silvrwrx
02-03-2010, 03:25 PM
I dont care who he is, where he comes from, how tall he is, if he played basketball or not, if he's a rookie or a 5 year veteran.

i only care for two things...

1-He's not at the end of his career i.e. Tony Gonzalez who i respect, but dont kid yourself he's old.

2-MOST IMPORTANT I WANT PRODUCTION ON THE FIELD

greenmiamicat
02-03-2010, 03:26 PM
Phew!! I thought this was going to be an ad for craigslist. JK

BeatMan
02-03-2010, 03:29 PM
how About Russ Francis "all World"

silvrwrx
02-03-2010, 03:34 PM
I'm lost what about these numbers warrant your feeling he was performing at "probowl form"?

here are the differences from his two season with miami

5 TD more in 08 (7 in 08, 2 in 09)
3 more rec in 08 (34 in 08, 31 in 09)
2 more games played in 08
115 yards more in 08 (454 in 08, 339 in 09)
2 fumbles in 09 (0 in 08)

in 2008 our TE as a collective group had a great year, not 1 of them had a good year in 08 or 09.


I love how everyone want's to toss aside a player for dropping in production for a year. But love the guys when they perform to probowl form. I have a great idea, how about miami just drop every player that doesn't make the probowl. So we get to keep bell and carpenter. Who's going to be our QB next year?:rolleyes2:

fgrocker
02-03-2010, 03:40 PM
BYU's Dennis Pitta (imho) he could be the next Dallas Clark/Jason Witten. He is a true receiving TE.

Also I'd love to keep Fasano for his blocking skills and I think when he's not asked to be the #1 receiving option at TE he can still have success in the passing game. When Martin was healthy Fasano found himself open much more. Plus we should be able to keep him pretty cheap.

Huh? Jason Witten is not just a receiving TE. He's also the best blocking TE in football. Grouping him with Pitta and Clark as one-dimensional TEs is just ignorant.

truedolfan57
02-03-2010, 03:45 PM
I'm lost what about these numbers warrant your feeling he was performing at "probowl form"?

here are the differences from his two season with miami

5 TD more in 08 (7 in 08, 2 in 09)
3 more rec in 08 (34 in 08, 31 in 09)
2 more games played in 08
115 yards more in 08 (454 in 08, 339 in 09)
2 fumbles in 09 (0 in 08)

in 2008 our TE as a collective group had a great year, not 1 of them had a good year in 08 or 09.
He averaged more yards per catch than tony gonzalez and antonio gates in 08. His TD's were 3rd best with his limited touches. Granted they were not staggering numbers overall, they were still pretty damn good numbers for the amount of reps.

silvrwrx
02-03-2010, 03:53 PM
He averaged more yards per catch than tony gonzalez and antonio gates in 08. His TD's were 3rd best with his limited touches. Granted they were not staggering numbers overall, they were still pretty damn good numbers for the amount of reps.


"more yards per catch than TG/gates"??? thats like saying Ted Ginn is a pro bowl WR becuase he averaged 17.9 yards a catch but only had 12 receptions.

keep in mind he probably caught half as many balls than both those guys.

I get your point though, but the bottom line is he isnt a threat/play maker. he'd be a solid #2 but if we want to compete in the NFL we need play makers.

truedolfan57
02-03-2010, 03:55 PM
"more yards per catch than TG/gates"??? thats like saying Ted Ginn is a pro bowl WR becuase he averaged 17.9 yards a catch but only had 12 receptions.

keep in mind he probably caught half as many balls than both those guys.

I get your point though, but the bottom line is he isnt a threat/play maker. he'd be a solid #2 but if we want to compete in the NFL we need play makers.
how do you feel about korry sperry? he showed he could catch. Another offseason with miami and he could be something special. everyone in SD thought he could be Gates 2.0.

You also have to remember that fasano is a pretty damn good blocker as well.

truedolfan57
02-03-2010, 03:59 PM
oh, and if i recall correctly, Fasano was ranked #2 in TE's in 08...

#1dolphinsfan
02-03-2010, 04:00 PM
Ed Dickson is going to be a very good receiving TE

lucid22
02-03-2010, 04:07 PM
Jimmy Graham is very very very very raw. The upside about him is he has a lot of room to expand his game and knowledge. He'll take some time to develop to his full potential.

silvrwrx
02-03-2010, 04:07 PM
how do you feel about korry sperry? he showed he could catch. Another offseason with miami and he could be something special. everyone in SD thought he could be Gates 2.0.

You also have to remember that fasano is a pretty damn good blocker as well.


I like sperry a lot, he's a big target. I'm hoping he'll turn into a red zone threat. He reminds me of keith jackson, great hands, big target, not that fast but solid and consistant.

If we match him up with a speedy receiving TE they'll be lethal.

3rdandinches
02-03-2010, 04:09 PM
T.Scheffler can be had fairly cheap from Denver, he fits the bill.

AdamC13
02-03-2010, 04:09 PM
Also wanted: LB and S that can cover the opponents receiving TE.

silvrwrx
02-03-2010, 04:14 PM
Also wanted: LB and S that can cover the opponents receiving TE.


and solid speedy TE on our team would mean good practice rep's...

hooshoops
02-03-2010, 05:41 PM
if 2010 is uncapped tony sheffler will only be restricted which would require draft pick compensation...

and i'd say the odds are very good 2010 will be an uncapped year...

i like dickson also...good value in the 4th imo...

Mr. Magoo
02-03-2010, 07:08 PM
I wouldn't count out the possibility of us taking a TE with either of our first two picks. This regime firmly believes that TE is the second hardest position to play after quarterback, given all the physical, technique and talent demands.

As far as Fasano, he actually blocked very well last year. His receiving stats were way down, but part of that I think was due to Henne, who never really relied on a TE at Michigan and is still probably learning how to use one.

Gresham, Gronkowsi, Dickson and Pitta are all good prospects. Especially Gresham. Graham has a lot of physical talent and someone will probably reach for him in the 2nd or 3rd but I hope it's not us. Those four other guys are much safer picks and much better players right now. Remember, Antonio Gates went undrafted, and while hindsight is 20/20, given his track record before the draft there's really no reason he should have been taken before the 6th. He was a total project, and while those guys do pan out sometimes (also see: Austin, Miles), you can't just draft on pure talent and hope the everything else works itself out. That's how you end up with Jamarcus Russell.

ckparrothead
02-03-2010, 09:07 PM
Here's a video of Pitta's performance at the East-West Shrine Game. YouTube is still processing the video so you might have to check back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=megcwu1XXuU

Ruepert
02-03-2010, 09:24 PM
I wouldn't mind signing Bo Scaife (I believe he is an UFA). and draft all defense? From what I've seen of him he could stretch the field for the O and give the occasional big score.

TheDon74
02-03-2010, 10:35 PM
Huh? Jason Witten is not just a receiving TE. He's also the best blocking TE in football. Grouping him with Pitta and Clark as one-dimensional TEs is just ignorant.

When did I say ANYTHING about Witten not being a blocking TE or that he was one dimensional? Just because I say he is a good receiving TE doesn't mean I don't think he can block. Try having a clue about what your talking about before you go calling someone ignorant on here.

RyanWallace321
02-03-2010, 10:41 PM
we still have david martin on the roster who was hurt last season. he'll be back

Mr. Magoo
02-03-2010, 10:51 PM
Here's a video of Pitta's performance at the East-West Shrine Game. YouTube is still processing the video so you might have to check back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=megcwu1XXuU

Pitta's a very interesting prospect, no doubt about it. The age thing gets brought up a lot, but I don't consider it a big issue at all. If a guys a bum, he washes out in a few years no matter how old he is.

The bigger worry about Pitta would normally be that he comes out of a spread passing attack, since it's such a different philosophy from what most NFL offenses run. Davone Bess referenced that this year when talking about the emphasis at Hawaii being on just "getting open" rather than running a route to an exact depth on every snap and how, even in his second year, he was having to learn to be more precise.

Getting away from this takes a lot of time, and effects the development of every TE, WR and Quarterback who comes out of the spread (there are many other adjustments, of course). Having followed his career to the Ravens, I think John Beck still struggles with this transition, as he still stares people down, seeming to expect them to just break off their route and be open rather than run something to a precise depth.

But, the point of this as far as Pitta's concerned is that I think BYU's actually a pretty good school to scout TE's from, since they don't run a true spread but actually run a fair amount of 2 TE, power running plays that ask their TEs to line up on the outside of the tackle and block the way they do in the pros.

What will need to be looked more closely is Pitta's ability to negotiate through traffic in the middle of the field. A lot of the time at BYU they split their TEs out, which is not something the Dolphins do a lot (though other teams do). He seemed to struggle some in the game negotiating through the wash and finding the open zone. This may be a matter of simple experience, but we don't know. There's also the fact that he really didn't produce that much more than Jonny Harline did at BYU in the same system, and Harline went undrafted. Not saying that they're in the same class as prospects, but it has to make you wonder.

Either way, he's interesting. I don't see him as a big upgrade over Fasano, though, especially if we're talking about the Fasano of last year (though I think I like Fasano more than some here). He's certainly bigger, but not an intimidating presence from a passing perspective.

MrEd
02-03-2010, 11:04 PM
I read this morning that BP at the Senior Bowl said he wanted to add a receiving tight end this offseason. This is music to my ears. The TE position is huge in our style of offense or any offense for that matter. I say we cut lose Fasano and keep haynos and sperry and use 1 of our 3 early picks on a TE.

I know there are Fasano fans out there but i'm sorry he was terrible in 2009. He isnt a speedy TE who is a threat down the middle of the field...and thats what we need.

I think the answer is Ben Watson. NE is going to worry about tagging Wilfork and will probably let Watson hit Free Agency.

I also wouldn't put it pass Parcells tendering Anthony Fasano to a low tender to see if a team will sign him and net us a late 2nd round pick. If no team bites, we still win out by only signing him to a cheap low tender one year salary. Win, win.

If we keep Fasano, he will be the blocking TE and Watson would be the pass catching TE (David Martin's replacement). Then we let Nalbone, Sperry, and Haynos battle it out for the 3rd TE spot.

I definitely don't expect Miami to draft another TE after drafting Nalbone and having 2 more young TEs in Sperry and Haynos developing. I'd expect more of a veteran like Watson.

Also, this would indicate to me, that Miami is not planning on obtaining that #1 WR, but more of a speedy deepthreat/PR to play behind or push Tedd Ginn Jr. JMO.

ckparrothead
02-04-2010, 05:52 PM
Pitta's a very interesting prospect, no doubt about it. The age thing gets brought up a lot, but I don't consider it a big issue at all. If a guys a bum, he washes out in a few years no matter how old he is.

The bigger worry about Pitta would normally be that he comes out of a spread passing attack, since it's such a different philosophy from what most NFL offenses run. Davone Bess referenced that this year when talking about the emphasis at Hawaii being on just "getting open" rather than running a route to an exact depth on every snap and how, even in his second year, he was having to learn to be more precise.

Getting away from this takes a lot of time, and effects the development of every TE, WR and Quarterback who comes out of the spread (there are many other adjustments, of course). Having followed his career to the Ravens, I think John Beck still struggles with this transition, as he still stares people down, seeming to expect them to just break off their route and be open rather than run something to a precise depth.

But, the point of this as far as Pitta's concerned is that I think BYU's actually a pretty good school to scout TE's from, since they don't run a true spread but actually run a fair amount of 2 TE, power running plays that ask their TEs to line up on the outside of the tackle and block the way they do in the pros.

What will need to be looked more closely is Pitta's ability to negotiate through traffic in the middle of the field. A lot of the time at BYU they split their TEs out, which is not something the Dolphins do a lot (though other teams do). He seemed to struggle some in the game negotiating through the wash and finding the open zone. This may be a matter of simple experience, but we don't know. There's also the fact that he really didn't produce that much more than Jonny Harline did at BYU in the same system, and Harline went undrafted. Not saying that they're in the same class as prospects, but it has to make you wonder.

Either way, he's interesting. I don't see him as a big upgrade over Fasano, though, especially if we're talking about the Fasano of last year (though I think I like Fasano more than some here). He's certainly bigger, but not an intimidating presence from a passing perspective.

A couple of things.

One, BYU did split Pitta wide...a lot. He didn't have to sit on the line and block a DE very often at all. They do that sometimes at BYU but not very often. What surprised me at the Shrine game is that he had to do it more and he seemed to be better at it than some of the tape I've seen where he's trying to block a fast, undersized and aggressive linebacker or safety out in space, and he was unable to sustain against them. I think what it shows is that, exactly as Mike Stock alluded to, he has better core strength than I thought he did. He was asked to keep up with guys that were 20 to 40 pounds lighter than him, in space mirroring them and trying to sustain, and he didn't always do it well, and so the impression got to be that he's not a good blocker.

Another thing is, and Awsi's brought this up in the past and it's a great point, there's more to the age thing than just how many years he'll play for you. It's also about profiling and just correlations that aren't easy to explain. There isn't a high correlation between guys who take significant time off for mission work or whatever, and success. Awsi made this point about Beck and the QB position and I think he ended up extremely right there, profiles are damn important at that spot probably more than any other. That said, I just think Pitta's a hard working snap-to-whistle player and so I don't see issues from the profile standpoint, which puts it down to how long he'll play in the league...and like you say, hard enough not to end up with a guy that washes out at three years, let alone worrying about eight years versus ten years.

Thirdly, you're right Johnny Harline (who spent some time with the Colts if I'm not mistaken) was very productive in the same system. But that doesn't mean they're the same player. But you know as well as I do all you have to do is pop in a tape and you're going to immediately see that Pitta is a more fluid athlete than Harline. When you get right down to it though Pitta was fighting Austin Collie and Todd Watkins for receptions in 2004, and then Austin Collie in 2007 and 2008, and finally nobody significant in 2009. These passes mostly came from Max Hall. Johnny Harline was fighting primarily Todd Watkins for John Beck's passes in 2005 and really nobody except Curtis Brown in 2006. When you're talking about ultra-productive players in an ultra-productive system...you have to give something to the guy that was doing it earlier in his life as a player, and more consistently for longer. Harline did it for two years. Pitta was a top producer at the position for three years after he came back from LDS mission, and he was even a pretty good producer before he went on LDS mission.

The question sort of reminds me of Todd Watkins and Austin Collie. It's like, hey Todd Watkins was very productive in 2004 and 2005, (1720 rec. yards, 17.0 ypc, 15 TDs)...so why is Austin Collie a better prospect? Well, Austin was productive before he went on mission (771 yards, 14.5 ypc, 8 TDs), then came back and was productive for two straight years (2,484 yards, 15.3 ypc, 22 TDs). So basically he was more productive than Todd Watkins, earlier in his career, and longer, more consistently. The fact that Todd Watkins was a very successful WR at BYU but not a great pro didn't stop Collie being a very successful rookie with the Colts this year. That's sort of like Harline vs. Pitta. Pitta played 8 games in 2004 and had 176 yards, 10.4 ypc, 2 TDs. He went on LDS mission. He came back and over three years caught for 2,725 yards at 13.4 ypc with 19 TDs...very consistent.

Last point, I like what Dennis did at the Shrine practices and game. He worked on the line and showed he could get open in exactly the circumstances where your perception was that he got a little 'lost in the wash'. What I saw was the exact opposite. I saw a guy that had a natural instinct for flowing with the direction of the defense and finding that hole in the zone and sitting in it. He did this from a position on the line. Reviewing the Shrine footage, I can't tell you how many times he ran some of those exact routes that he caught balls on, and was just as open every time, but the QB didn't really find him. I didn't necessarily clip and show those routes, I tended to focus on the ones where you could see him go up in front of a defender and use his hands and body to create a shielded space for the QB to throw the ball...like boxing out as a basketball player. I showed those two clips in the route running section because they showed something different from what you saw in his pure catch clips. But I would note that on the routes he did catch balls, he ran those same routes a bunch of other times and seemed just as open for most of them. And when he wasn't, like on the long ball to Nathan Overbay, it was because he drew both a LB and SS in coverage, and even further the FS (Chancellor) was drawn over top of Pitta as a third guy because of Max Hall's work with his eyes.

Morey161
02-04-2010, 05:55 PM
Hes the best in this years class


Um **** no he isn't.


Jermaine Greshman is the best TE in the draft by far. I would love to have Jimmy G from Miami damnit. I want to keep a lot of these UM guys at home.

ckparrothead
02-04-2010, 06:03 PM
I've sang Gresham's praises in the past but I'm not positive he's the best TE in this class anymore.

Drubatuba
02-04-2010, 06:09 PM
WHat ever happened to Kory Sperry? That guy had one great play this season and then he never got the ball again. Whats up with that?

TheDon74
02-04-2010, 06:18 PM
WHat ever happened to Kory Sperry? That guy had one great play this season and then he never got the ball again. Whats up with that?

I know Charger fans where pretty upset that they put him on the practice squad. They were all reminded of what Gates looked like when he 1st came in the league. I definitely wouldn't go that far but he does have a lot of promise. I'm sure if he continues to grow this offseason and into training camp he will get more playing time.

hooshoops
02-04-2010, 06:53 PM
I've sang Gresham's praises in the past but I'm not positive he's the best TE in this class anymore.

lemme guess...p p p pitta

ckparrothead
02-04-2010, 07:01 PM
LOL. No actually Gronkowski. Pitta's not the best but he's a good'un.

PhinCanuck
02-04-2010, 07:26 PM
LOL. No actually Gronkowski. Pitta's not the best but he's a good'un.
Did Pitta ever play with John Beck?

ckparrothead
02-04-2010, 08:07 PM
Briefly. Before he went on LDS mission, Pitta played with Beck in 2004. Also with Todd Watkins and Austin Collie. No wonder Beck looked so damn good.

It's funny because I remember that 2004 was one of the draws of drafting John Beck. You look at his 2006 and especially his 2005 and you say maybe he was just one of a long line of short-oriented guys out of BYU. But, back in 2004 they had one of the deepest passing games in all of college football and when you popped on the 2004 tape of Beck that's when you saw a guy that was operating something closer to an NFL offense.

But of course, hindsight is 20/20. Todd Watkins, Austin Collie and Dennis Pitta catching the ball for you, no wonder you succeeded with a deeper passing attack.

Mr. Magoo
02-04-2010, 08:33 PM
Briefly. Before he went on LDS mission, Pitta played with Beck in 2004. Also with Todd Watkins and Austin Collie. No wonder Beck looked so damn good.

It's funny because I remember that 2004 was one of the draws of drafting John Beck. You look at his 2006 and especially his 2005 and you say maybe he was just one of a long line of short-oriented guys out of BYU. But, back in 2004 they had one of the deepest passing games in all of college football and when you popped on the 2004 tape of Beck that's when you saw a guy that was operating something closer to an NFL offense.

But of course, hindsight is 20/20. Todd Watkins, Austin Collie and Dennis Pitta catching the ball for you, no wonder you succeeded with a deeper passing attack.

Yeah, but even then, if memory serves, he only had like 55% completions.

Awsi Dooger
02-04-2010, 08:52 PM
If we're strictly talking about receiving TE, the guy from FAU is worth a look, Jason Harmon.

Very athletic and instinctive. Known for great adjustments, leaping ability, one-handed grabs and particularly for an infatuation for leaping over the defender. He does that far too often.

Harmon is significantly undersized, more like a big receiver. He also had a major knee injury that caused him to miss the entire 2008 season. Dedicated guy who actually served as equipment manager during the season he missed, to stay involved with the team. I didn't get to see a lot of him in 2009, post injury, but he was terrific in 2007. You can move him around a lot, like Miami did with Shockey years ago, H back, etc.

I think he's going to be in that Texas vs. the Nation game this weekend.

PhinCanuck
02-05-2010, 05:48 PM
Briefly. Before he went on LDS mission, Pitta played with Beck in 2004. Also with Todd Watkins and Austin Collie. No wonder Beck looked so damn good.

It's funny because I remember that 2004 was one of the draws of drafting John Beck. You look at his 2006 and especially his 2005 and you say maybe he was just one of a long line of short-oriented guys out of BYU. But, back in 2004 they had one of the deepest passing games in all of college football and when you popped on the 2004 tape of Beck that's when you saw a guy that was operating something closer to an NFL offense.

But of course, hindsight is 20/20. Todd Watkins, Austin Collie and Dennis Pitta catching the ball for you, no wonder you succeeded with a deeper passing attack.
Thanks CK.

DKphin
02-05-2010, 05:53 PM
I really like Aaron Hernandez from UF!
Hernandez is good. Good combo of size, strength, and speed(for a TE). I am not saying he will become Gonzalez, but he kind of reminds me of him. But unless we take him with the 1st pick we are not going to be able to draft him.