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View Full Version : Dare to be Great or Rick Spielman



Marinodominates
03-12-2010, 09:26 PM
Several seasons ago, our GM, who now works in same capacity for the Vikings had a dilemna on draft day.

He really needed OL and knew there was a player with a higher (some would say much higher value) also on the board. He had his choice of standing pat and getting either Vince Wilfork or Vernon Carey

Spielman compounded his error in judgment by trading up and selecting the lower rated guy because he played at a "need position"

This year's Carey is Dan Williams a good, but not good enough player at #12.

I hope the Fins dare to be great with better players Kindle, Graham, Bryant or Thomas/Berry. All would help us more in the long run

Get Thomas or Cody in Round 2

TheBow305
03-12-2010, 09:52 PM
I agree whole-heartedly. Although I must acknowledge that he made a good pick either way. Obviously Wilfork seems like the superior player. But we didn't need Wilfork at all at that time, and Carey filled a HUGE need for us. And quietly Carey has become the top RT in the league.

Hey, thank your lucky stars Philly took Shawn Andrews, because that was the guy that most people believe we were targeting at that spot! :tongue:

3rdandinches
03-12-2010, 10:18 PM
E.Thomas FS......dare to be great!!!

jlfin
03-12-2010, 11:38 PM
Several seasons ago, our GM, who now works in same capacity for the Vikings had a dilemna on draft day.

He really needed OL and knew there was a player with a higher (some would say much higher value) also on the board. He had his choice of standing pat and getting either Vince Wilfork or Vernon Carey

Spielman compounded his error in judgment by trading up and selecting the lower rated guy because he played at a "need position"

This year's Carey is Dan Williams a good, but not good enough player at #12.

I hope the Fins dare to be great with better players Kindle, Graham, Bryant or Thomas/Berry. All would help us more in the long run

Get Thomas or Cody in Round 2

Revisionist history. Carey and Wilfork were both rated as mid 1st rd prospects. Only Gallery was clearly felt to be rated higher than Carey as far as O-lineman. Shaun Andrews and Carey were graded roughly about the same with beauty in the eye of the beholder.
That being said, I think it was a mistake to trade up for him because I think he still would have been there several picks later.
The issue of Wilfork vs Carey is hinsight at its worst. Both players IMO are among the top 5 at their respective positions and I wish this issue would just be put to rest.

Aqua and Orange
03-12-2010, 11:59 PM
Several seasons ago, our GM, who now works in same capacity for the Vikings had a dilemna on draft day.

He really needed OL and knew there was a player with a higher (some would say much higher value) also on the board. He had his choice of standing pat and getting either Vince Wilfork or Vernon Carey

Spielman compounded his error in judgment by trading up and selecting the lower rated guy because he played at a "need position"

This year's Carey is Dan Williams a good, but not good enough player at #12.

I hope the Fins dare to be great with better players Kindle, Graham, Bryant or Thomas/Berry. All would help us more in the long run

Get Thomas or Cody in Round 2

I completely agree. If we get Graham or Thomas/Berry in the first, address NT in the second, WR in the third, and then OLB and S later I will be a happy, happy man.

Marinodominates
03-13-2010, 08:58 AM
Revisionist history. Carey and Wilfork were both rated as mid 1st rd prospects. Only Gallery was clearly felt to be rated higher than Carey as far as O-lineman. Shaun Andrews and Carey were graded roughly about the same with beauty in the eye of the beholder.
That being said, I think it was a mistake to trade up for him because I think he still would have been there several picks later.
The issue of Wilfork vs Carey is hinsight at its worst. Both players IMO are among the top 5 at their respective positions and I wish this issue would just be put to rest.

I think you're revising your own history. Most draft experts had Wilfork as a top 10 pick and Carey at middle to end of Round 1. UM followers also saw a big difference in talent.

It carried over to the pros as well. Carey is a very good RT who made Pro Bowl. Wilfork is a dominant DT.

Its not "hinsight at its worst" Same thing could happen in this year's draft.

jlfin
03-13-2010, 03:32 PM
I think you're revising your own history. Most draft experts had Wilfork as a top 10 pick and Carey at middle to end of Round 1. UM followers also saw a big difference in talent.

It carried over to the pros as well. Carey is a very good RT who made Pro Bowl. Wilfork is a dominant DT.

Its not "hinsight at its worst" Same thing could happen in this year's draft. Think you need to get over yourself a bit.

Wrong on every count. I'm a UM fan and do not agree with you.
As I said it IS hindsight at its worst and the issue should be put to rest.
Wilfork was NEVER a consensus top 10 pick. There were issues about his weight and tendency to take plays off.
Carey was always felt to be a player in the 15-20 range

Marinodominates
03-13-2010, 05:14 PM
Wrong on every count. I'm a UM fan and do not agree with you.
As I said it IS hindsight at its worst and the issue should be put to rest.
Wilfork was NEVER a consensus top 10 pick. There were issues about his weight and tendency to take plays off.
Carey was always felt to be a player in the 15-20 range

Not much of an observer are you, JL.

Its not hindsight if a fan said at the time that taking a lower rated player after trading up was wrong, as I did in 2004. Its only magnified when you look at the careers both guys have had

Here's how mistaken you are about how both players were looked at based on pre-draft ratings
Wilfork Carey
PFW overall ranking 12 21
mock draft position 10 27

Mel Kiper overall 12 27
mock draft pos. 14 37

Frank Coyle overall 9 42
mock draft pos. 10 33

I can dig up Ourlads which Im pretty sure said the same thing. Consensus top 10, was Wilfork, face it.

Here's the overall issue, nobody should have taken a guy who was a guard or RT only (and be honest Vernon was only OK at LT) over a top 10 DL. Bad then, worse now.

Stop digging, JL. You're dead wrong on all counts and your argument is starting to stink worse than Spielman's tenure in Miami.

miami71
03-13-2010, 05:17 PM
Spielman is kicking butt with his moves in Minnesota!

ChambersWI
03-13-2010, 05:46 PM
Spielman is kicking butt with his moves in Minnesota!

he's had 2 moves work out for him big time 1.Adrian Peterson and 2.Jared Allen. Sidney Rice had a big year this past season, but really most of the players weren't his doing.

That not withstanding, trading up one spot for Vernon Carey was stupid. Spielman pretty much said we wanted Shawn Andrews (who I remember some projected as a top 10 pick because some felt he could play LT) weeks before the draft. Philly traded up to get him and he panicked. I remember once Andrews went off the board, i thought for sure we'd go Wilfork (who was only falling because most teams wanted a quicker DT. Main reason Tommie Harris was the pick for the Bears)