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View Full Version : OK, here's a crazy thought...OT????



WaxOn WaxOff
03-20-2010, 03:46 PM
What if one of the top OTs was left, but our other top targets were gone? Imagine Buluga, Davis, or Williams as #1 and move Carey to right guard. We would have an INSANELY GOOD O-Line.

jim1
03-20-2010, 03:54 PM
What if one of the top OTs was left, but our other top targets were gone? Imagine Buluga, Davis, or Williams as #1 and move Carey to right guard. We would have an INSANELY GOOD O-Line.

You never know, but I'd think it a better option to trade down to an OT starved team and pick up an extra 2 or 3 if someone like Bulaga falls a bit.

skipp2myloo13
03-20-2010, 03:57 PM
It is a value pick. trade perhaps. I would really only look into it if Dez and Thomas are gone. But in all honesty if both were gone, i would play it safe and go Graham, even though by selecting tackles you cant go wrong.

ColonelJ
03-20-2010, 04:01 PM
So you think that Trent Williams or Bulaga are better then Carey who also was a first round pick and is a veteran? Interesting.

Morey161
03-20-2010, 06:42 PM
No, Vernon Carey is good at RT. But I understand where you are going at.

WaxOn WaxOff
03-20-2010, 07:02 PM
So you think that Trent Williams or Bulaga are better then Carey who also was a first round pick and is a veteran? Interesting.

No, Not saying that at all. Carey is a veteran with extensive experience at Guard, both at college and in his early time with the phins. He could easily make the transition. To get a younger Right OT would be a solid move for the future, too; planning for the day when Carey is too old for tackle. I suspect he could play guard longer than tackle as it is not as demanding a position.

hooshoops
03-20-2010, 09:50 PM
brandon graham is the safe pick...but when you really think about it is he as talented as a dez bryant a earl thomas a cj spiller???

i think that answer is a no....and olb seems relatively deep in this draft to me...

as such i pass on the olb at #12 and pick one of the 3 mentioned above...i'm going talent talent talent at pick #12

but i wouldn't rule out anything with these guys at pick #12...including ot

WaxOn WaxOff
03-20-2010, 10:05 PM
"brandon graham is the safe pick...but when you really think about it is he as talented as a dez bryant a earl thomas a cj spiller???"

Graham was a beast at the Senior Bowl. My take on the three you mention.... Earl Thomas is a special player, I like him better than Eric Berry. But frankly, there are a lot of good FS prospects in this year's draft, so I think the other two are more important. Dez Bryant has more question marks but also looks like a special player. Spiller is the one with the fewest questions, but doesn't seem like a Parcells type pick. So I'm expecting Graham or Morgan. Probably Morgan because he fits the numbers profile better.

hooshoops
03-20-2010, 10:07 PM
i'm not all that familiar with "a lot of good free safety prospects" in this draft... clue me in???

we need a ballhawk...eric berry and earl thomas are the 2 guys i'd say...

morgan burnett and nate allen??? i don't think either has elite ball skills...

graham did dominate the senior bowl against some poor tackles...imo...i still think grahams gonna be a good player and worthy of top 20 pick...i just think olb is deeper than free safety in this draft...

as for morgan i think i'm convinced that he's a 4-3 end...mayock even said that everyone came away from his pro day saying as such...smokescreen??? maybe

WaxOn WaxOff
03-20-2010, 10:12 PM
Berry, Thomas, Burnett, Nate Allen (SFU), Major Wright (UF) all should go in the 1st two rounds. Then there is a list for rounds 3 to 6 that are just a step below. See some here....http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/probe.php?genpos=FS&draftyear=2010&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC

ChadHennington7
03-20-2010, 10:20 PM
Nah. We need to go defense in the first round. We have Incognito, Jake, etc. Carey will be a good lineman for now. We need a good OLB or Safety. It could help, but Parcells probably wouldn't go for it.

hooshoops
03-20-2010, 10:27 PM
i'll pass on major wright at free safety...but i can see your point also...i just don't see the depth at free safety like i do other positions...

Mr. Magoo
03-20-2010, 11:24 PM
Yeah, this is a pretty deep strong safety draft. Not nearly as good a free safety draft. Unfortunately for us.

Now I'm not exactly sure the exact roles the safeties play in Nolan's defense. But I know it's not a strict cover 2 scheme, so you're going to see at least some division of labor between the two guys back there.

For me it comes down to this. If you go into the process thinking the four major positions of need are OLB, FS, TE, WR, well... there's good depth in the draft at OLB and excellent depth at TE. At WR and FS... not so much. If you want a good one, you've got to take them early.

That's why I'm coming along to the idea that -- as much as I love Brandon Graham as a player -- ideally it comes down to Eric Berry or Dez Bryant, more realistically it comes down to Earl Thomas or Dez Bryant, and more than likely it just comes down to Earl Thomas. Or perhaps... Brandon Graham.

I say perhaps because the more I look into it, the more I have fairly large reservations about Graham being the pick given his size. Agree or not, but this regime places a fairly large importance on size on the defensive front seven. For a guy to violate those requirements, he generally has to be something very special (like Mike Nolan picking 6'1 MLB Patrick Willis in the first round).

Fans of Worilds being our second round pick either don't seem to know this fact or be able to bring themselves to accept it. The guy is just a shade over 6'1. It is not an exaggeration to say it would be almost unprecedented for these guys to pick someone that small to play OLB. And I like Worilds. Perhaps not as much as some here, but I am a fan, even with the uncertainty of his shoulder. And I of course know that Graham is 6'103. But I just think if there's a guy who's going to make them forget for a moment about long held principles they've held fairly strictly to about size requirements, it's a Brandon Graham, rather than a Jason Worilds.

Like it or not, guys like Gibson, Misi, Griffen, Cunningham and even Ricky Sapp come much closer to the profile they like to follow.

EDIT: I almost forgot, or perhaps I just didn't want to remember. Sergio Kindle also holds to their profile.

Joey23
03-21-2010, 05:41 AM
I would be much more intrigued if say Iupati where to be there at #43. Carey is a pretty good RT, if you wan't an insane O-line bring a RG. Keep Carey at RT, where he belongs.

Besides, Saban did try him at RG once and he proved he lacked the leg drive to push the pile and the straight line speed to pull and block at the second level.

He has good lateral quickness and great upper body strength, like all RTs should.

dr.jake
03-21-2010, 10:24 AM
our o-line is missing a piece. iupati or m. pouncey second round would start inside immediately and give us some flexibity with the injuries issues we endure every year.

finfan54
03-21-2010, 05:15 PM
our o-line is missing a piece. iupati or m. pouncey second round would start inside immediately and give us some flexibity with the injuries issues we endure every year.

yeah, Iaputi solves a problem too. RG.

Iaputi is a beast and yes, somoan. wouldnt bother me at all if we got a PB type G to go with our PB LT. dude locks on with power. Keep Henne upright so he can get it downfield.

rickd13
03-21-2010, 06:53 PM
Yeah, this is a pretty deep strong safety draft. Not nearly as good a free safety draft. Unfortunately for us.

Now I'm not exactly sure the exact roles the safeties play in Nolan's defense. But I know it's not a strict cover 2 scheme, so you're going to see at least some division of labor between the two guys back there.

For me it comes down to this. If you go into the process thinking the four major positions of need are OLB, FS, TE, WR, well... there's good depth in the draft at OLB and excellent depth at TE. At WR and FS... not so much. If you want a good one, you've got to take them early.

That's why I'm coming along to the idea that -- as much as I love Brandon Graham as a player -- ideally it comes down to Eric Berry or Dez Bryant, more realistically it comes down to Earl Thomas or Dez Bryant, and more than likely it just comes down to Earl Thomas. Or perhaps... Brandon Graham.s
I say perhaps because the more I look into it, the more I have fairly large reservations about Graham being the pick given his size. Agree or not, but this regime places a fairly large importance on size at every position. For a guy to violate those requirements, he generally has to be something very special (like Mike Nolan picking 6'1 MLB Patrick Willis in the first round).

Fans of Worilds being our second round pick either don't seem to know this fact or be able to bring themselves to accept it. The guy is just a shade over 6'1. It is not an exaggeration to say it would be almost unprecedented for these guys to pick someone that small to play OLB. And I like Worilds. Perhaps not as much as some here, but I am a fan, even with the uncertainty of his shoulder. And I of course know that Graham is 6'103. But I just think if there's a guy who's going to make them forget for a moment about long held principles they've held fairly strictly to about size requirements, it's a Brandon Graham, rather than a Jason Worilds.

Like it or not, guys like Gibson, Misi, Griffen, Cunningham and even Ricky Sapp come much closer to the profile they like to follow.

EDIT: I almost forgot, or perhaps I just didn't want to remember. Sergio Kindle also holds to their profile.

You said it yourself when you said this regime places a large emphasis on size requirements, so what makes you think they would take an undersized safety in Earl Thomas with the 12th pick? I think too many guys on this message board are panicking over who is going to play free safety. I just can't see tacking a safety that high in the draft. I also doubt they would take a nose tackle that high.

Mr. Magoo
03-21-2010, 07:41 PM
You said it yourself when you said this regime places a large emphasis on size requirements, so what makes you think they would take an undersized safety in Earl Thomas with the 12th pick? I think too many guys on this message board are panicking over who is going to play free safety. I just can't see tacking a safety that high in the draft. I also doubt they would take a nose tackle that high.

5'10, 208 isn't undersized. It's not huge. Not ideal. But not undersized. Eric Berry is only an inch taller and three pounds heavier.

And their emphasis on size doesn't stretch to every position. There are a good bunch of secondary guys in Mike Nolan's history who were Earl Thomas' size. Some were even smaller. And remember, they just tried to sign 5'11, 200 pound Ryan Clark.

Earl Thomas is big enough. The question is whether Nolan would be willing to put a rookie back there to start from day one, because the only alternative at this point is Tyrone Culver, a player I certainly like but who is just as certainly unproven. Nolan's history indicates he prefers to bring in veterans at that position. Which you can understand. The free safety is the quarterback of the secondary. We all saw what happens when you have a dunce like Gibril Wilson back there.

Berry and Thomas, though, have the kind of elite intangibles, instincts and intelligence to suggest they could do it. But still, it's got to make you pause.

utahphinsfan
03-23-2010, 03:16 PM
"brandon graham is the safe pick...but when you really think about it is he as talented as a dez bryant a earl thomas a cj spiller???"

Graham was a beast at the Senior Bowl. My take on the three you mention.... Earl Thomas is a special player, I like him better than Eric Berry. But frankly, there are a lot of good FS prospects in this year's draft, so I think the other two are more important. Dez Bryant has more question marks but also looks like a special player. Spiller is the one with the fewest questions, but doesn't seem like a Parcells type pick. So I'm expecting Graham or Morgan. Probably Morgan because he fits the numbers profile better.

Don't rule out Pierre-Paul or Kindle.

normaniii
03-23-2010, 06:57 PM
I dont think Iupati or Pouncey will be there at#43. Carey was always scouted as being a better gaurd than tackle coming out of college. Dont get me wrong I think Carey is very good, Top 10-15 tackle, but as gaurd i see him very much like L.Davis, a Top 3 gaurd. I also believe Trent Williams could be a special tackle and that Oline, especially with Sparano would be immense and at #12 a value pick.

Joey23
03-24-2010, 10:53 PM
Well no matter what the scouts said back when Carey came out, he played well at RT at the UM, struggled at G. Played RT, RG, and LT for us already and the only position where I think he plays well is at RT.

At RG he is barely above average, he can't pull and while he can stun DTs on explosion he can't push them back like he should.

PhinPhan910
03-25-2010, 10:15 AM
The only way I would even think about is if russel okung fell to us.

Dmarino110
03-25-2010, 11:54 AM
No, Vernon Carey is good at RT. But I understand where you are going at.
Vernon is a serviceable RT, He would be better suited IMO for a non pulling guard position...I wanted it that way when Max Starks came available a few years ago...it would just be a massive line...

WaxOn WaxOff
03-25-2010, 01:56 PM
The only way I would even think about is if russel okung fell to us.

I see very little separation in the Top 3 OTs, except that OKung may be a better LOT prospect. But we would be drafting for ROT.