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FinAtic8480
03-30-2010, 09:29 PM
ArmandoSalguero Source tells me Dez Bryant had a 38 inch vert leap and ran a 4.55 average in the 40. He ran once with wind (4.6), once against (4.5).

Welcome to Miami!

DKphin
03-30-2010, 09:35 PM
That's odd. He ran faster against the wind than with it.:ponder:

52CANES
03-30-2010, 09:37 PM
WAR Benn @ 43

SQuinn17
03-30-2010, 09:44 PM
I love your enthusiasm FinAtic, but I dont think we scoop him at 12. I think we go safety at 12 and address lb in round 2 followed by receiver in round 3. I would LOVE for Jerry Hughes to fall to us in the 2nd. But there are so many different scenarios....cant the draft ger here already??

j-off-her-doll
03-30-2010, 09:44 PM
He's the quickest big WR I can remember coming out of college.

FinAtic8480
03-30-2010, 09:49 PM
Bryant began the workouts Tuesday in his hometown of Lufkin, Texas, with the 40, posting times of 4.52, 4.68 and 4.52. He was asked to run the third time due to the discrepancy between the first two times.

http://bit.ly/9dAbsj

SQuinn17
03-30-2010, 09:53 PM
So....we didn't even have anybody there to scout him??

datruth55
03-30-2010, 09:57 PM
So....we didn't even have anybody there to scout him??
There were area scouts there for the Dolphins just none of the big names like Ireland, Parcells, Sparano, Henning, etc.

bobw999
03-30-2010, 10:01 PM
Dear NFL GM's with the first 11 picks,

You do not want Dez. He is too slow. You do what CJ Spiller, JPP, Dan Williams, and Rolando McClain. Those guys are good.

Love,

The Dolphins.

bert
03-30-2010, 10:02 PM
berry is very very good.i saw a article that tuna has never drafted a saftey in the 1st.this could be the first time,but its food for thought.

FinAtic8480
03-30-2010, 10:09 PM
I love your enthusiasm FinAtic, but I dont think we scoop him at 12. I think we go safety at 12 and address lb in round 2 followed by receiver in round 3. I would LOVE for Jerry Hughes to fall to us in the 2nd. But there are so many different scenarios....cant the draft ger here already??

The Dolphins are said to love Mike Williams and he could be an option in the 3rd. If they are going with High Risk/Reward guy I rather it be in the third, but If Bryant is their at 12 you cannot pass him up.

I also think they either have a chance at Bryant or they have a chance at Berry, but not both will be there. I do think one will drop.

Phin-Phan 66
03-30-2010, 10:12 PM
Dear NFL GM's with the first 11 picks,

You do not want Dez. He is too slow. You do what CJ Spiller, JPP, Dan Williams, and Rolando McClain. Those guys are good.

Love,

The Dolphins.
:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:
amen

datruth55
03-30-2010, 10:16 PM
The Dolphins are said to love Mike Williams and he could be an option in the 3rd. If they are going with High Risk/Reward guy I rather it be in the third, but If Bryant is their at 12 you cannot pass him up.

I also think they either have a chance at Bryant or they have a chance at Berry, but not both will be there. I do think one will drop.

If it's said that the Dolphins love a player, chances are it's a smoke screen or they Dolphins are trying to get someone to bite on a guy they really have no interest in.

This time of year it's real hard to know what's real and what's not and with this front office there's no way they tip their hand before the cards are dealt.

Edit: Let me add to this that the Dolphins may have a real interest in Dez Bryant and by saying they are more interested in Mike Williams later in the draft (which would be in line with previous history of Parcells drafts) and by not sending any of the big names to Bryant's workout they may just be throwing teams off to prevent someone from trading up in front of them to grab the real receiver they want.

Speculation on my part but I like to play the head games. :)

FinAtic8480
03-30-2010, 10:18 PM
If it's said that the Dolphins love a player, chances are it's a smoke screen or they Dolphins are trying to get someone to bite on a guy they really have no interest in.

This time of year it's real hard to know what's real and what's not and with this front office there's no way they tip their hand before the cards are dealt.

Not really, everyone knew how much they loved Henne. We were well aware of how much they liked Pat White. It is not like that always.

ryoung8918
03-30-2010, 10:20 PM
I have a feeling that if Bryant is still on the board at 12, and Seattle hasn't signed Marshall, Miami trades down to Seattle and Seattle takes Bryant. Miami drops to 14 and gets an extra pick.

datruth55
03-30-2010, 10:23 PM
Not really, everyone knew how much they loved Henne. We were well aware of how much they liked Pat White. It is not like that always.
They liked Henne but no one knew how much. They liked a lot of players that they didn't draft too.

They liked Pat White but most of that speculation was because of the wildcat and no one expected White to go at the top of the 2nd.

FinAtic8480
03-30-2010, 10:27 PM
They liked Henne but no one knew how much. They liked a lot of players that they didn't draft too.

They liked Pat White but most of that speculation was because of the wildcat and no one expected White to go at the top of the 2nd.

No Offense, but it was reported very clearly the Fins were extremely high on Henne. Shoot just last year we all knew the loved Sean Smith, they sent the secondary coach to Smith Proday, he was brought in for a visit. they loved the kid and drafted him. Same goes for White. When Henne I think even Parcells and his good Wolf were at his proday

MP-Omnis
03-30-2010, 10:29 PM
I have a feeling that if Bryant is still on the board at 12, and Seattle hasn't signed Marshall, Miami trades down to Seattle and Seattle takes Bryant. Miami drops to 14 and gets an extra pick.

That would be nice, but I think Seattle's gonna go for a tackle or Clausen if he's still on the board.

datruth55
03-30-2010, 10:31 PM
No Offense, but it was reported very clearly the Fins were extremely high on Henne. Shoot just last year we all knew the loved Sean Smith, they sent the secondary coach to Smith Proday, he was brought in for a visit. they loved the kid and drafted him. Same goes for White. When Henne I think even Parcells and his good Wolf were at his proday
I think you're confusing "loved" with "interested in".

datruth55
03-30-2010, 10:36 PM
Maybe you can scratch Dez Bryant (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5558) off the Raiders' wish list after all.

Bryant ran the forty (http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/03/30/bryant-posts-expected-40-times-during-private-workout/) in 4.52, 4.68, and 4.52, according to NFL.com. Bryant was asked to run a third time because of the discrepancy in the times. He jumped 38 inches on his vertical leap and jumped over eleven feet on his broad jump, which is a huge number.

He wasn't able to finish the three-cone drill and short shuttle, which perhaps indicates a lack of work preparing for the pro day. His hands reportedly looked good.

Mike Mayock said he was surprised by the slow forty times. He appears to play faster on tape.

The problem for Bryant is that Adam Schefter tweeted that Bryant ran a 4.32 last week (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/30/bryant-will-dine-with-jerry-jones-wednesday-night/), creating high expectations. Larry Fitzgerald (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=1661) ran a similar time a few years ago, but didn't have the same off-field concerns.

Mayock said "more questions than answers" came out of the workout.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/30/bryant-has-so-so-workout/

Couldn't finish the 3-cone and short shuttle? All this time to prepare and he couldn't finish? I agree with Mayock, buyer beware.

elite14eva
03-30-2010, 10:40 PM
watch we pass on him.

PhinsTD
03-30-2010, 10:43 PM
The same Mayock who recently said he was among best WR prospects he had scouted.

I'm losing a little bit of respect for Mayock this year. He seems to be making more publicity statements this year.

JT-forpresident
03-30-2010, 10:43 PM
if it is true that his pro day wasn't all that impressive, then YESSSS !!

here's to hoping he drops to 12 :D

Chubby
03-30-2010, 10:45 PM
watch we pass on him.

Noone really knows, we all are just guessing when we say this player or that player.

Dont care how much people on these boards or the "experts" say they know what the fins are doing, they really dont.

The fins are so tight lipped its frustrating.
Chubbs

datruth55
03-30-2010, 10:45 PM
The same Mayock who recently said he was among best WR prospects he had scouted.

I'm losing a little bit of respect for Mayock this year. He seems to be making more publicity statements this year.
Mayock has always gone back-and-forth on players. He preaches not to fall in love with a player after their workout in shorts but his board is in constant flux all the time because it changes after the pro days and workouts.

I think Dez Bryant is the best WR in the draft but I worry about his mental state. That is my biggest concern with him. Whoever drafts him will need to do a lot of hand holding IMO.

SQuinn17
03-30-2010, 10:48 PM
I have a feeling that if Bryant is still on the board at 12, and Seattle hasn't signed Marshall, Miami trades down to Seattle and Seattle takes Bryant. Miami drops to 14 and gets an extra pick.
I can see that happening.

Chubby
03-30-2010, 10:50 PM
There is only 1 player that I could possibly see Ireland moving to grab and thats Berry. And even that is pushing it considering how much Thomas has closed the gap between Berry and him.
Chubbs

miamiron
03-30-2010, 10:50 PM
Gil Brandt UPDATE: A few more Bryant numbers to pass along. He measured in at 6-foot-1 1/2 and 224 pounds, and he had a 38-inch vertical, an 11-foot-1 broad jump, 4.48-second short shuttle and 7.21-second three-cone drill.


Short shuttle and 3 cone were terrible times

FinAtic8480
03-30-2010, 10:53 PM
I think you're confusing "loved" with "interested in".

I dont think so. I have seen the Fins the last two years interview a guy at the combine, show up at his pro day and bring him in for a workout. Only to draft him on draft day.

These guy are not as secretive as you think. Last year, they interviewed Davis, they showed up at his pro day, brought him for a workout. Sure enough drafted him, a lot were saying Fins were smoke screening cause of his character concerns and they would never select a guy like Davis.

FinAtic8480
03-30-2010, 11:03 PM
Contrary to what many of you believe, the Dolphins do not bring guys in for the sake of creating smokescreens.

Teams have a limited number of visits and this team doesn't waste those on players they don't like or don't want to know better. This team creates smokescreens by simply saying nothing, zero, nada, zilch, and letting speculation and poor reporting (I've been guilty) do their work.



Read more: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/#ixzz0jgiSArmN

Told you

datruth55
03-30-2010, 11:05 PM
Gil Brandt UPDATE: A few more Bryant numbers to pass along. He measured in at 6-foot-1 1/2 and 224 pounds, and he had a 38-inch vertical, an 11-foot-1 broad jump, 4.48-second short shuttle and 7.21-second three-cone drill.


Short shuttle and 3 cone were terrible times
Didn't expect times that slow. Those are really bad. There were offensive lineman at the combine that ran the short shuttle in 4.51. Now he's looking more like Rashaun Woods.

ckparrothead
03-30-2010, 11:06 PM
Obviously he had some kind of issue with his short shuttle and cone drills.

That's interesting. Overall this could be an extremely positive development for Miami. He did not have the kind of day I dreaded, which would have sent him way out of reach of #12.

But he did have a good day. He ran between a 4.50 and 4.52. Don't look at those "averages". That's totally unfair. Every other 40 time any media member has ever quoted about any other prospect has always been a best time. Now suddenly it's an average. Right. That makes a ton of sense. I love comparing apples and oranges. It makes things so much simpler, don't you find? [/sarcasm]

He had a 38 inch vertical which would have ranked #8 of 38 at the Combine among WRs. He had an 11'1" broad jump which would have ranked #1 of 38 among WRs. In fact, it was 7 inches better than the best WR broad jump at the Combine, to give you an idea how ridiculous that is. You rarely see better than 11 feet. The best I ever saw was Calvin Johnson's ridonkulous 11'7" but before that the best I'd ever seen was I believe an 11'2" mark. Interestingly enough Dekoda Watson managed to reproduce that 11'2" mark this year.

So a 4.50-4.52, 38" vertical, 11'1" broad jump at 6'2" and 224 lbs.

Sounds pretty good to me. What I like is there was enough bad in there that some teams might just ever so gently nudge themselves off taking him in the top 10, and yet there's enough good in there that teams with any kind of sensibilities will be like "Are you nuts? Did you WATCH the tape?"

Aqua and Orange
03-30-2010, 11:11 PM
Obviously he had some kind of issue with his short shuttle and cone drills.

That's interesting. Overall this could be an extremely positive development for Miami. He did not have the kind of day I dreaded, which would have sent him way out of reach of #12.

But he did have a good day. He ran between a 4.50 and 4.52. Don't look at those "averages". That's totally unfair. Every other 40 time any media member has ever quoted about any other prospect has always been a best time. Now suddenly it's an average. Right. That makes a ton of sense. I love comparing apples and oranges. It makes things so much simpler, don't you find? [/sarcasm]

He had a 38 inch vertical which would have ranked #8 of 38 at the Combine among WRs. He had an 11'1" broad jump which would have ranked #1 of 38 among WRs. In fact, it was 7 inches better than the best WR broad jump at the Combine, to give you an idea how ridiculous that is. You rarely see better than 11 feet. The best I ever saw was Calvin Johnson's ridonkulous 11'7" but before that the best I'd ever seen was I believe an 11'2" mark. Interestingly enough Dekoda Watson managed to reproduce that 11'2" mark this year.

So a 4.50-4.52, 38" vertical, 11'1" broad jump at 6'2" and 224 lbs.

Sounds pretty good to me. What I like is there was enough bad in there that some teams might just ever so gently nudge themselves off taking him in the top 10, and yet there's enough good in there that teams with any kind of sensibilities will be like "Are you nuts? Did you WATCH the tape?"

What worries me is that the Dolphins appear to have had no interest in meeting with him or sending important folks to his pro day. Despite people's smokescreen beliefs, to me it smacks of the team writing him off already. :( I hope they bring him for a workout, or at least to meet him between now and the draft.

datruth55
03-30-2010, 11:12 PM
Told you
So every player they bring in for a workout means they "love" that player?

I wonder how they plan to draft Rolando McClain and Derrick Morgan since they brought both of them in for a workout. Obviously they "love" both players.

hooshoops
03-30-2010, 11:14 PM
you guys are crazy...4.52 at that size is plenty fast enough...i'm taking him off his game tape alone...which speaks volumes

and that 11 foot broad jump is straight nasty...

hooshoops
03-30-2010, 11:16 PM
truth this is the same dude who tried to tell me that we could maybe get te john carlson for justin smiley straight up...

i wouldn't worry too much about what he's saying :lol:

FinAtic8480
03-30-2010, 11:17 PM
So every player they bring in for a workout means they "love" that player?

I wonder how they plan to draft Rolando McClain and Derrick Morgan since they brought both of them in for a workout. Obviously they "love" both players.

Not all of them, but they obviously hold the guys in high regard enough that if there guy is not there, they might consider one of them. I don't believe the smoke screen thing one bit, cause after following these guys for two years in the draft they have yet to smoke screen anyone. Why would you waste your time in evaluating a guy you feel will not fit your team. That is a crazy idea.

datruth55
03-30-2010, 11:20 PM
What worries me is that the Dolphins appear to have had no interest in meeting with him or sending important folks to his pro day. Despite people's smokescreen beliefs, to me it smacks of the team writing him off already. :( I hope they bring him for a workout, or at least to meet him between now and the draft.
Because of the workout they're in a rock and a hard place now. Bryant's 3-cone and short shuttle times sucked. If they bring him in for a private workout to check those times again and have him run routes, etc. They tip their hand. If they don't bring him in and draft him anyway they could be getting a player that can't separate from DBs in the NFL.

Had he run like a 4.1 short shuttle and a 6.89 3-cone he'd be in our wheelhouse and I'd feel comfortable drafting him at #12 but something doesn't seem right here.

SRM
03-30-2010, 11:20 PM
Not all of them, but they obviously hold the guys in high regard enough that if there guy is not there, they might consider one of them. I don't believe the smoke screen thing one bit, cause after following these guys for two years in the draft they have yet to smoke screen anyone. Why would you waste your time in evaluating a guy you feel will not fit your team. That is a crazy idea.

Because one day of watching them in shorts isn't going to change what is on 3-4 years of film.

JT-forpresident
03-30-2010, 11:21 PM
this dez bryant persona keeps getting more and more interesting


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/30/dez-bryant-forgot-his-cleats/


As it turns out, Oklahoma State receiver Dez Bryant (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5558) showed up on time for his Pro Day workout.

His cleats, however, didn't make the trip.

We're told that Bryant forgot to bring his cleats, and that as a result he had to wear a pair of brand-new shoes, which had not properly been broken in.



:bobdole:

so much for trying to prove people wrong when they question his personality as a whole (work ethic, accountability, etc.)

i'd still draft bryant in a heartbeat, but man he'll drive bill parcells and tony sparano crazy with that kind of **** happening with the dolphins :lol:

datruth55
03-30-2010, 11:22 PM
you guys are crazy...4.52 at that size is plenty fast enough...i'm taking him off his game tape alone...which speaks volumes

and that 11 foot broad jump is straight nasty...
The 11 foot broad jump shows some explosion which makes his 3-cone and short shuttle times even more mysterious.

hooshoops
03-30-2010, 11:22 PM
the only thing dez bryant did today was MAYBE make himself available to us at #12...maybe

i tell you this i don't see how off that kids tape he isn't a top 10 selection...it's way too good imo...

datruth55
03-30-2010, 11:24 PM
this dez bryant persona keeps getting more and more interesting


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/30/dez-bryant-forgot-his-cleats/




:bobdole:

so much for trying to prove people wrong when they question his personality as a whole (work ethic, accountability, etc.)

i'd still draft bryant in a heartbeat, but man he'll drive bill parcells and tony sparano crazy with that kind of **** happening with the dolphins :lol:

That goes back to what I said before. Whoever drafts this kid will have to do a lot of hand holding.

ckparrothead
03-30-2010, 11:25 PM
Armando really said that about Smiley and Carlson? Dayum.

Anywho, keep in mind that teams tend to bring in guys for their private visits that have some kind of question about them either personality-wise or medically. Only when you bring in a guy for a private visit can you have him visit your own doctors, go through whatever tests you want, conversations you control, etc. Daniel Jeremiah has talked about this before.

For instance. Miami brought in Mike Williams, Jason Worilds and Rolando McClain. Mike Williams quit his team and is a notorious a-hole. Jason Worilds has a wrecked shoulder that needs serious investigation. Rolando McClain just revealed that he has Crohn's Disease which could literally end his NFL career at any time depending on its severity.

Give ya three guesses why each of them was brought in. Go.

In all seriousness, what you're trying to do is decide whether or not whatever overhanging issue a guy has is not going to take him off your board. You could even apply the same thing to Earl Thomas and Derrick Morgan. What are their overhanging issues? Position. Is Earl Thomas really a safety? If he's not, he's off the Dolphins' draft board entirely. Is Derrick Morgan really a linebacker? If he's not, he's probably off their board entirely. They're not going to place those two players' scout grades next to the grades of guys they know can play the position they want. The scout grade is going to say something like 6.41 for Derrick Morgan and 6.40 for Brandon Graham or Jerry Hughes. But if Derrick Morgan is not a linebacker, then those two grades are not comparable. You don't end up taking Derrick Morgan the DE when you need an OLB. The Dolphins have said many times before they stack their board horizontally.

datruth55
03-30-2010, 11:26 PM
the only thing dez bryant did today was MAYBE make himself available to us at #12...maybe

i tell you this i don't see how off that kids tape he isn't a top 10 selection...it's way too good imo...
Alright hoops. Tell me how you felt about Reshaun Woods from Oklahoma State when he was coming out?

Heatking
03-30-2010, 11:28 PM
Its not a crazy fast 40 for a receiver, but the fact that he looks like brandon jacobs out on the field thats pretty good.

hooshoops
03-30-2010, 11:29 PM
Alright hoops. Tell me how you felt about Reshaun Woods from Oklahoma State when he was coming out?

i thought he was another wr from that crappy conference who couldn't get separation at the nfl level...

please tell me your not comparing rashaun woods tape to dez bryants...that's crazy

i'll hold dez bryants hand all day long if he gets me 80 catches 1200 plus yards and 10 tds a season...yes sir i will...

hooshoops
03-30-2010, 11:31 PM
[quote=ckparrothead;1063390575]Armando really said that about Smiley and Carlson? Dayum.

no this finatic dude did...

and i shot that down like a pennington duck

datruth55
03-30-2010, 11:34 PM
i thought he was another wr from that crappy conference who couldn't get separation at the nfl level...

please tell me your not comparing rashaun woods tape to dez bryants...that's crazy

i'll hold dez bryants hand all day long if he gets me 80 catches 1200 plus yards and 10 tds a season...yes sir i will...
C'mon hoops. Woods had 293 receptions, 4414 yards and 42 TDs in his career at OSU. Yes the tape is not comparable, Bryant looks a lot better on tape but even you with your affinity for Bryant have to be a little nervous about what's going on with him.

Aqua and Orange
03-30-2010, 11:38 PM
this dez bryant persona keeps getting more and more interesting


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/30/dez-bryant-forgot-his-cleats/




:bobdole:

so much for trying to prove people wrong when they question his personality as a whole (work ethic, accountability, etc.)

i'd still draft bryant in a heartbeat, but man he'll drive bill parcells and tony sparano crazy with that kind of **** happening with the dolphins :lol:

Eeeeeeeeesh. Everyone has been waiting for this pro day for so long and he bungles it up. He would have been smarter just saying nothing.

Anvil35
03-30-2010, 11:41 PM
Another good article about Dez today on National Football Post - this site will not allow me to insert a link - apologies!!!

Ultimately I believe we are doing everything possible to trade down. Plus, if twelve is kept we go defense - BPA - OLB, S or NT...and WR is deep in this draft - there are potential #1 receivers in this draft elsewhere.

FinAtic8480
03-30-2010, 11:46 PM
[quote=ckparrothead;1063390575]Armando really said that about Smiley and Carlson? Dayum.

no this finatic dude did...

and i shot that down like a pennington duck


I did not say the Fins were gonna trade Smiley for Carlson, I suggested. The same way guys would love to trade Smiley for Rogers. Dude, you really need to get your facts straight before trying to make people on this thread look like crap. And no Armando never said that, it was me as a suggestion not a fact.

hooshoops
03-30-2010, 11:49 PM
C'mon hoops. Woods had 293 receptions, 4414 yards and 42 TDs in his career at OSU. Yes the tape is not comparable, Bryant looks a lot better on tape but even you with your affinity for Bryant have to be a little nervous about what's going on with him.

#s don't mean squat to me if you don't display the tools necessary to succeed at the nfl level on tape...case in point neither dez briscoe or danario alexander (who both put up #s this year) look to me on tape like impact nfl wrs...

i don't care about #s...i want to see the physical tools to get off press coverage to be able to track the ball down the field to produce separation in and out of cuts and to do something with the ball once it is your hands...dez bryant at 4.52 is plenty fast enough and he will go get the ball when it is in the air...and he will highpoint the ball and he will lay it on the line to catch the ball..and he will carry defenders for extra yards after the catch and he will break tackles...

i mean the kid does it all imo...he may not streak by dbs on a consistent basis but i can guarantee you that when the balls in the air he has the mentality that the ball is his...

i want that on my football team...i'm tired of 3 yard receptions and no vertical over the top real threat and guys who don't make guys miss and carry guys for extra yards...tough yards...

i want a horse...a go to guy...

hooshoops
03-30-2010, 11:51 PM
[quote=hooshoops;1063390585]


I did not say the Fins were gonna trade Smiley for Carlson, I suggested. The same way guys would love to trade Smiley for Rogers. Dude, you really need to get your facts straight before trying to make people on this thread look like crap. And no Armando never said that, it was me as a suggestion not a fact.

there's a lot of things you need to do...but anyways i said you said we could "maybe" get carlson for smiley straight up... and you did...and it was completely and utterly nonsense...

FinAtic8480
03-30-2010, 11:56 PM
[quote=FinAtic8480;1063390609]

there's a lot of things you need to do...but anyways i said you said we could "maybe" get carlson for smiley...and it was completely and utterly nonsense...

Nonsense, because it did not come out of your mouth. Dude your a little full of your self. I respect the fact you don't think it can happen, but to make yourself sould like a GM or Draftnik and insults people's opinion is not classy at all.

I still say a player for player trade would not be a bad idea. I still say I would love to see Smiley for Carlson and while it is not likely to happen, It is a wonderful idea. Truth is and always has been Smiley was been traded for picks, but we as fans are allowed to give our opinions and suggestions.

Show a little class.

Chubby
03-30-2010, 11:58 PM
Dont make me start handing out Citizens Arrest, I mean Citizens Bans!!!!!!!!!

ps. I would take Carlson for Smiley any day of the week.It will never happen but I'd jump all over it.

hooshoops
03-31-2010, 12:00 AM
nonsense because no nfl team who spent a 2nd round pick just a few years back on a te who to date has probably even outproduced his draft status is gonna trade a young te the caliber of john carlson for an older guard who can't stay healthy...

it has nothing to do with me...other than that i would never ever suggest something so off base...

and talk about someone suggesting themselves as a draftnik...i never said anything about the draft regarding this topic...

hooshoops
03-31-2010, 12:00 AM
smiley over carlson??? lol OK

Morey161
03-31-2010, 12:01 AM
He's the quickest big WR I can remember coming out of college.


What?

Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson?

Chubby
03-31-2010, 12:03 AM
smiley over carlson??? lol OKLol meant it the other way around, caught it after

rev kev
03-31-2010, 12:04 AM
Hoops something of the like was written - about Carlson and Smiley - now let's move on - or Chubbs is going to lay the smack down

FinAtic8480
03-31-2010, 12:05 AM
smiley over carlson??? lol OK

It was a freaking suggestion let it go, already. You obvioulsy hated the idea and we understood it in that thread. Don't understand why you keep bringing it up.

As for the whole draft guru/expert I am not. It has been very well stated and said.

hooshoops
03-31-2010, 12:07 AM
i'm done...

chubby please don't put me in time out...:lol:

Chubby
03-31-2010, 12:07 AM
Hoops something of the like was written - about Carlson and Smiley - now let's move on - or Chubbs is going to lay the smack down
hehehe

Seriously people are on edge around here lately, its so bad I dont even think the Draft will help. Think its going to take Training Camp or bust.
Chubbs

hooshoops
03-31-2010, 12:14 AM
It was a freaking suggestion let it go, already. You obvioulsy hated the idea and we understood it in that thread. Don't understand why you keep bringing it up.

As for the whole draft guru/expert I am not. It has been very well stated and said.

that was in reference to what chubby said...not you... :up: he then said he typed it wrong...

ckparrothead
03-31-2010, 12:19 AM
Alright let's not be mean.

I've always taken a pick 'n choose approach to the numbers. They can be very important and they can tell you important things. But there's no hard and fast rules for interpreting them.

In this case the shuttle and cones look so far off the mark I'm just going to say you know what, they don't tell me anything. On the other hand the broad jump sort of tells me something because I knew the dude was explosive and rare on tape but that number is also explosive and rare so to me it means something. Running a 4.5 isn't what I thought he COULD run if everything went perfectly for him, I thought he could get down to 4.45 based on the tape, but it's right in the range, and so it means something to me that he's in the range I thought he would be.

A while ago I was just looking at free agent linebackers to be, or guys we thought might be free agents if we had a CBA, and I decided to put up their Combine and Pro Day numbers into the table for comparison, and then also toss in some of the best LBs in the league so it ended up this big table with like 30 names on it or something. There's no rhyme or reason to which numbers create good players. Usually they EITHER had a good vertical OR a good shuttle, something like that. It's very much an either/or thing and it seems like as long as the guy brings something athletically compelling to the table one way or another, and most importantly he happens to be a good football player, that's enough confirmation.

Today was enough confirmation for me to maintain my Top 6 grade on Dez Bryant, which was a Top 5 grade and is now only a Top 6 grade because I didn't know how to treat Sam Bradford's shoulder until yesterday.

Canadi-Phin
03-31-2010, 12:25 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/30/dez-bryant-forgot-his-cleats/

Was slipping according to mayock

datruth55
03-31-2010, 12:32 AM
#s don't mean squat to me if you don't display the tools necessary to succeed at the nfl level on tape...case in point neither dez briscoe or danario alexander (who both put up #s this year) look to me on tape like impact nfl wrs...

i don't care about #s...i want to see the physical tools to get off press coverage to be able to track the ball down the field to produce separation in and out of cuts and to do something with the ball once it is your hands...dez bryant at 4.52 is plenty fast enough and he will go get the ball when it is in the air...and he will highpoint the ball and he will lay it on the line to catch the ball..and he will carry defenders for extra yards after the catch and he will break tackles...

i mean the kid does it all imo...he may not streak by dbs on a consistent basis but i can guarantee you that when the balls in the air he has the mentality that the ball is his...

i want that on my football team...i'm tired of 3 yard receptions and no vertical over the top real threat and guys who don't make guys miss and carry guys for extra yards...tough yards...

i want a horse...a go to guy...
You know how I feel about the 3-cone and short shuttle times. That's my guage for the ability to get separation and make those cuts without losing a lot of acceleration. Bryant's times were bad, real bad.

Right now some things don't mesh with Bryant. On tape he looks fantastic but you know, I'm pretty sure you're the one that said it to me once, that the DBs in the Big 12 don't play press. They don't get in the receivers face and make it difficult for him to get separation.

There is something absolutely missing here. I've seen Bryant make guys miss not only as a receiver but in the return game, he makes great cuts, change of direction without decelerating, etc. The times don't match.

Remember when I posted about Scott Long from Louisville placing in the top performers at the combine in every catagory for the WRs yet his production didn't match. This is the opposite.

hooshoops
03-31-2010, 12:32 AM
finatic...i've had a rough day at work today...i may have taken it out on you a bit there...

apologies

ckparrothead
03-31-2010, 12:34 AM
You know how I feel about the 3-cone and short shuttle times. That's my guage for the ability to get separation and make those cuts without losing a lot of acceleration. Bryant's times were bad, real bad.

Well then that's a very poor and unreliable gauge my friend. Too much noise, not enough signal. Sometimes the times mean something. Sometimes they really don't.

hooshoops
03-31-2010, 12:37 AM
You know how I feel about the 3-cone and short shuttle times. That's my guage for the ability to get separation and make those cuts without losing a lot of acceleration. Bryant's times were bad, real bad.

Right now some things don't mesh with Bryant. On tape he looks fantastic but you know, I'm pretty sure you're the one that said it to me once, that the DBs in the Big 12 don't play press. They don't get in the receivers face and make it difficult for him to get separation.

There is something absolutely missing here. I've seen Bryant make guys miss not only as a receiver but in the return game, he makes great cuts, change of direction without decelerating, etc. The times don't match.

Remember when I posted about Scott Long from Louisville placing in the top performers at the combine in every catagory for the WRs yet his production didn't match. This is the opposite.

i'm throwing those 3 cone and shuttle times out...chalk it up to a bad day...lol

scott long to me was way too upright at the combine in drills...something there i didn't like...

anyways...remember truth that for me the tape trumps all...workouts pro days...they don't matter to me that much if i see what i need to see on tape...had he run a 4.8 i'd be genuinely worried...he didn't...i'm going with the tape...

and i don't for the life of me believe that those 3 cone and shuttle drills he ran today are indicative of the tape...

datruth55
03-31-2010, 12:38 AM
Well then that's a very poor and unreliable gauge my friend. Too much noise, not enough signal. Sometimes the times mean something. Sometimes they really don't.
Is there a better measure? I don't put too much stock in 40 times cause football isn't played in a straight line. Taylor Mays is a prime example of straight line speed but he can't change direction, he has no instinct and can't defend the pass worth a crap.

datruth55
03-31-2010, 12:40 AM
i'm throwing those 3 cone and shuttle times out...chalk it up to a bad day...lol

scott long to me was way too upright at the combine in drills...something there i didn't like...

anyways...remember truth that for me the tape trumps all...workouts pro days...they don't matter to me that much if i see what i need to see on tape...had he run a 4.8 i'd be genuinely worried...he didn't...i'm going with the tape...

and i don't for the life of me believe that those 3 cone and shuttle drills he ran today are indicative of the tape...
Alright but I would take Eric Berry over him in a trade up giving up our 3rd. Any GM that can pull that off has my respect, lol.

hooshoops
03-31-2010, 12:42 AM
Alright but I would take Eric Berry over him in a trade up giving up our 3rd. Any GM that can pull that off has my respect, lol.

i did pull that one out of the hat didn't i...lol

Phinatic8u
03-31-2010, 12:45 AM
Berry or Bryant. Like Finatic said one will drop. But we won't know till draft day. Well atleast the Raiders won't take Bryant

hooshoops
03-31-2010, 12:50 AM
truth...what is that avatar you've chosen??? it looks like a christmas ornament...lol

you should come over here more often...some very good posters over here who really know their stuff...

great draft discussion...

datruth55
03-31-2010, 12:59 AM
truth...what is that avatar you've chosen??? it looks like a christmas ornament...lol

you should come over here more often...some very good posters over here who really know their stuff...

great draft discussion...
I see there are some good poster here. Good discussion with the knowledgable ones. Right now I just want to talk football, mainly the draft and there's nothing going on at the other site.

As for my avatar, I have no freakin idea what it is but it has a Dolphins logo so I said what the heck.

ckparrothead
03-31-2010, 01:12 AM
Is there a better measure? I don't put too much stock in 40 times cause football isn't played in a straight line. Taylor Mays is a prime example of straight line speed but he can't change direction, he has no instinct and can't defend the pass worth a crap.

There's no substitute for intense study of the guy in football elements, unfortunately. I wish there was, because boy would it make life easier. But, it's not that easy. Sometimes the times mean something, and sometimes they don't, and the only way you're going to know which is which is with a lot of experience and a good feel, rather than some hard and fast rules.

datruth55
03-31-2010, 01:20 AM
There's no substitute for intense study of the guy in football elements, unfortunately. I wish there was, because boy would it make life easier. But, it's not that easy. Sometimes the times mean something, and sometimes they don't, and the only way you're going to know which is which is with a lot of experience and a good feel, rather than some hard and fast rules.
I watch plenty of film but you need some measurable, IMO, to put the two together. Some kid from FCS may look fast on film but he's going up against other kids that are running 4.8/4.9 while he only runs 4.7 but you wouldn't know that until you worked him out. Big 12 has long been known as a high scoring, pass happy conference. You don't see too many Corners from the Big 12 listed very high. Parrish Cox ran 4.58 at the combine, Brian Jackson from Oklahoma ran 4.65. The film holds the most weight but there has to be some comparable measurable as well.

aj13
03-31-2010, 02:14 AM
runs poor routes, ran limited routes in college, didnt really play last year...trifecta passes...

DcRy82
03-31-2010, 02:19 AM
What?

Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson?


I'm glad someone else caught that too hahahaha. Shoot, even Vernon Davis, and he's a TE.

aj13
03-31-2010, 02:36 AM
ck how do you feel about his route running?

if hes not a burner, and in the larry fitzgerald mold, to me its imperative that he have a history of running solid routes, especially nfl routes, in college...i dunno, im from the gil brandt school of drafting wide receivers, as i think the trifecta...that is, more than one year of success, running nfl routes, combination of speed and size, with a hunger for the ball...

bryant ran just above his suspected 40 range but also dropped balls, which i attribute to nerves because as the proceeding went, he was near perfect...

to me, hes not worth a top 10 pick, am i crazy, based solely on his routes?

DOC33
03-31-2010, 03:58 AM
Well then that's a very poor and unreliable gauge my friend. Too much noise, not enough signal. Sometimes the times mean something. Sometimes they really don't.


The noise that those numbers are making is that Dez was not prepared to run the three cone and SS. One account from today was that he went the wrong way around the cones on one of his runs before he was corrected. The guy is a physical beast he ran a 1.50 in his 10 yrd split which is really quick in addition to his freakish broad jump. However, in preparing for the biggest day of his life he forgot his shoes and did not know how to perform one of the six drills that he was required to complete. This guy has head case written all over him. From a business standpoint do you want to commit $30 million to a guy who forgets his shoes????

finfan54
03-31-2010, 04:38 AM
uh, no, miami aint takin this guy. give it up dreamboys.

and this time, billy p runs the show, not cam cammy cam. no WR busts here. the dude can barely lay some enthusiasm in his interview with mayock who practically gave him the liberal media to obama treatment.

I know mayock is rethinking. if he isnt, he is lying through his teeth.

where's th'fish
03-31-2010, 06:37 AM
I don't suppose there's a chance... he'd have a poor workout on purpose so as to fall to the team of his choice (whichever it might be). Otherwise it seems really moronic of him not to prepare well for this day, as it might cost him millions.

j-off-her-doll
03-31-2010, 07:12 AM
What?

Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson?

I paused a bit when I thought of A. Johnson, but yeah, he looks quicker to me. And, he looks easily quicker than C. Johnson. He's not as big and fast as either, though.

ckparrothead
03-31-2010, 07:21 AM
ck how do you feel about his route running?

if hes not a burner, and in the larry fitzgerald mold, to me its imperative that he have a history of running solid routes, especially nfl routes, in college...i dunno, im from the gil brandt school of drafting wide receivers, as i think the trifecta...that is, more than one year of success, running nfl routes, combination of speed and size, with a hunger for the ball...

bryant ran just above his suspected 40 range but also dropped balls, which i attribute to nerves because as the proceeding went, he was near perfect...

to me, hes not worth a top 10 pick, am i crazy, based solely on his routes?

I think he runs routes extremely well. He does so many of the little things so precisely. He cuts his angles sharp to the QB in man and speeds into them in zone. He uses his head, god bless him he uses his head, hips and hands to work himself open. He reacts seamlessly to the QB and comes back to him when he's in trouble, his chemistry with Zac Robinson was extremely effective. He knows how to use his hands and body to shield the ball. I see people saying he doesn't run all the routes. Well, if there's a route I haven't seen him run, it's a new one to me...because he runs his routes DOWN the field, not a bunch short BS.

j-off-her-doll
03-31-2010, 07:33 AM
I'm glad someone else caught that too hahahaha. Shoot, even Vernon Davis, and he's a TE.

If you think V. Davis is quicker than D. Bryant, you're a little slow . . .

SRM
03-31-2010, 07:39 AM
uh, no, miami aint takin this guy. give it up dreamboys.

and this time, billy p runs the show, not cam cammy cam. no WR busts here. the dude can barely lay some enthusiasm in his interview with mayock who practically gave him the liberal media to obama treatment.

I know mayock is rethinking. if he isnt, he is lying through his teeth.

Patrick Turner..?

datruth55
03-31-2010, 07:47 AM
Patrick Turner..?
What is the comparison you're trying to make? He showed no enthusiasm at his interview like Turner? Or are you trying to say he's another Patrick Turner?

I can tell you there's no way he's another Patrick Turner. The game tape will tell you that much.

Right now everyone has Bryant dropping out of the top 10 but the Raiders are in the top 10 and you just never know what the heck they're going to do...even though Bryant didn't run a blazing 40 Raiders are an enigma.

TedSlimmJr
03-31-2010, 08:44 AM
He would've ran a 4.65 at the combine.....

I told you ALL he was scared to run for anybody a long time ago when he kept ducking out of everything.....

I think he's the best WR PROSPECT in the draft...but I think he's also potentially the most overrated player in the draft.....this kid isn't Andre Johnson....Calvin Johnson...or Larry Fitzgerald....I'm just telling you.....this top 5 pick propaganda is nonsense...

Seems like if you were suspended for basically an entire season....you'd at least learn how to run a good 40 by the time your pro-day rolled around.....or at least learn how to perform the drills....or at least remember that you can't do any of this **** for scouts barefoot....

This kid is one red flag after another....but the most interesting part about him is that they're always "little things".....one after another...after another..after another...

It seems like he lacks any attention to detail...about anything...everything.....and attention to detail is what seperates busts from good players...and good players to great players at the professional level...when athletic ability and talent can no longer allow you to coast...

He's going to need someone to hold his hand constantly...

If this kid flops in the pro's completely....or takes 5 years before he's mature enough to put it all together just so he can be a productive pro....you'll be able to look back on everything surrounding him and tell yourself...."I can't believe I didn't see THIS coming"....

Yeah...sounds like a top 5 pick to me...

I wouldn't touch any WR in this draft in the top 20 picks....

Mr. Magoo
03-31-2010, 09:47 AM
What makes you think he would have ran 4.65 at the Combine? This wasn't some Ohio State super fast track he ran on. This was a grass high school field in bum**** Texas.

Maybe you're arguing he was out of shape at the Combine but I don't see your certainty on it otherwise.

ckparrothead
03-31-2010, 09:50 AM
Yeah I don't see that and I CERTAINLY don't see any "attention to detail" based argument as it pertains to his on field work.

TedSlimmJr
03-31-2010, 10:28 AM
Yeah I don't see that and I CERTAINLY don't see any "attention to detail" based argument as it pertains to his on field work.


You got that right....which is why I still think he's the best WR PROSPECT in this draft....

Problem is....he just can't seem to do anything right....he can't get the simple **** right off the field.... ...guys usually don't bust in the pros because they lack the talent....it's all the other stuff..."little things"....

Personally, I wouldn't TOUCH him in the top 10 picks....although I think he'll go somewhere between 10-20 range....

I think he deserves to be the first WR off the board....but not in the top 20 picks....

TedSlimmJr
03-31-2010, 10:36 AM
What makes you think he would have ran 4.65 at the Combine? This wasn't some Ohio State super fast track he ran on. This was a grass high school field in bum**** Texas.

Maybe you're arguing he was out of shape at the Combine but I don't see your certainty on it otherwise.


LOS is slower than any pro day track... ...you can't put a positive spin on his workout...especially after ALL this time....you just can't do it...

It was rather meh....which is moreless what I expected actually....and I'm not really all that disappointed for that reason....

My point is...he would've had to WOW me with his workout for me to consider him a top 5 pick...which didn't happen....I think he's a good player that does a lot of things right on the football field....but he's not in the "elite" category of "can't miss" guys like Fitz, Andre, or Megatron....

j-off-her-doll
03-31-2010, 11:01 AM
LOS is slower than any pro day track... ...you can't put a positive spin on his workout...especially after ALL this time....you just can't do it...

It was rather meh....which is moreless what I expected actually....and I'm not really all that disappointed for that reason....

My point is...he would've had to WOW me with his workout for me to consider him a top 5 pick...which didn't happen....I think he's a good player that does a lot of things right on the football field....but he's not in the "elite" category of "can't miss" guys like Fitz, Andre, or Megatron....

There are things he does better than both of those players. When talking about his WR skill set, he's pretty close to can't miss. He's quicker than both Fitz and C. Johnson, and he runs with a lot more explosion and power than Fitz. He's also much better after the catch than both. Bryant runs great routes, has great hands, and he's the definition of a guy that can take a 5-yard slant for an 80-yard TD. He's not the deep threat C. Johnson is, and no one is as good with the ball in the air as Fitzgerald. But, Bryant is great with the ball in the air, and he's a legitimate deep threat. When you watch him play, he looks blazing fast. I've never seen any tape where he didn't look like the fastest player on the field.

j-off-her-doll
03-31-2010, 11:04 AM
You hit it on the head. How many guys that big do you see returning punts? He's the only one I can think of

Exactly. I've been saying it for a while, but when he has the ball in his hands, he reminds me a of a young TO. Honestly, what WR coming out of college has looked better with the ball in his hands? Maybe A. Johnson. I said he's quicker than Johnson, but Johnson is bigger and faster.

ROADRUNNER
03-31-2010, 11:07 AM
He would've ran a 4.65 at the combine.....

I told you ALL he was scared to run for anybody a long time ago when he kept ducking out of everything.....

I think he's the best WR PROSPECT in the draft...but I think he's also potentially the most overrated player in the draft.....this kid isn't Andre Johnson....Calvin Johnson...or Larry Fitzgerald....I'm just telling you.....this top 5 pick propaganda is nonsense...

Seems like if you were suspended for basically an entire season....you'd at least learn how to run a good 40 by the time your pro-day rolled around.....or at least learn how to perform the drills....or at least remember that you can't do any of this **** for scouts barefoot....

This kid is one red flag after another....but the most interesting part about him is that they're always "little things".....one after another...after another..after another...

It seems like he lacks any attention to detail...about anything...everything.....and attention to detail is what seperates busts from good players...and good players to great players at the professional level...when athletic ability and talent can no longer allow you to coast...

He's going to need someone to hold his hand constantly...

If this kid flops in the pro's completely....or takes 5 years before he's mature enough to put it all together just so he can be a productive pro....you'll be able to look back on everything surrounding him and tell yourself...."I can't believe I didn't see THIS coming"....

Yeah...sounds like a top 5 pick to me...

I wouldn't touch any WR in this draft in the top 20 picks....

:clapping:

ckparrothead
03-31-2010, 11:41 AM
You got that right....which is why I still think he's the best WR PROSPECT in this draft....

Problem is....he just can't seem to do anything right....he can't get the simple **** right off the field.... ...guys usually don't bust in the pros because they lack the talent....it's all the other stuff..."little things"....

Personally, I wouldn't TOUCH him in the top 10 picks....although I think he'll go somewhere between 10-20 range....

I think he deserves to be the first WR off the board....but not in the top 20 picks....

First off let me just say that I hear what you're saying.

But seriously, let's take a step back for a second. We're building a character argument about a kid based on:

1. Being late for some team meetings as a frosh
2. Some very milquetoast comments about him by Mike Gundy early in his career
3. Lying to investigators during a pretty blatant bout of entrapment
4. Choosing one of the most popular agents in the business, who happens to be tight with Parcells according to Chris Mortenson
5. Having a little trouble with some underwear drills that don't have much to do with football

I mean, that's it. He has a 100% clean rap sheet, which is pretty amazing when you consider how he grew up. That same head coach that leveled criticisms about him early in his career also praised him several times and talked about how much better he'd gotten, and this isn't a guy that will hold back when he's dealing with a kid he genuinely considers to be an a-hole (see: Cox, Perrish). He's all rocked up so you know the guy works hard in the weight room. His attention to detail on the football field doesn't leave much to be desired, if anything. Every report I've ever read, even the 'anonymous' rumor mill type ones that use words like immaturity and forgetful, not smart, whatever...every single one says that he's a nice kid. His WRs coach absolutely raves about him, said that he's as good as Randy Moss, whom he also coached. Another WRs coach in the conference raves about him as a person, as per an acquaintance of mine who personally knows said coach. When Bryant says he'd die if he couldn't have football, I sure as hell believe him, considering his background and how football has been his life.

We're building a character case against this guy? I mean, really? This isn't Terrence Cody and his 400 pounds of mountainous flab. This isn't Percy Harvin who was caught multiple times smoking weed. This isn't Lawrence Phillips with a rap sheet as long as your arm, or any rap sheet whatsoever. This isn't Mike Williams who quit on his team. This isn't a guy that has shown ANY sign that he lacks respect for authority. This isn't Brandon Marshall with the cops showing up every other day for beating his woman.

I mean, really...at what point do we step back from all this man-made drama and say we're drafting football players not choosing candidates for acceptance at Princeton?

hooshoops
03-31-2010, 11:58 AM
If you think V. Davis is quicker than D. Bryant, you're a little slow . . .

didn't vernon davis run low 4.4's

hooshoops
03-31-2010, 12:02 PM
From a business standpoint do you want to commit $30 million to a guy who forgets his shoes????

the #12 pick isn't gonna cost you $30 mil...in total contract...he's probably at #12 in the $8 mil guaranteed range and less than $20 mil all told...

ginn was the #9 pick a few years ago and he got like $20 mil for the contract total value if i'm not mistaken...

justdev7
03-31-2010, 12:13 PM
He's the quickest big WR I can remember coming out of college.

You hit it on the head. How many guys that big do you see returning punts? He's the only one I can think of

hooshoops
03-31-2010, 12:15 PM
First off let me just say that I hear what you're saying.

But seriously, let's take a step back for a second. We're building a character argument about a kid based on:

1. Being late for some team meetings as a frosh
2. Some very milquetoast comments about him by Mike Gundy early in his career
3. Lying to investigators during a pretty blatant bout of entrapment
4. Choosing one of the most popular agents in the business, who happens to be tight with Parcells according to Chris Mortenson
5. Having a little trouble with some underwear drills that don't have much to do with football

I mean, that's it. He has a 100% clean rap sheet, which is pretty amazing when you consider how he grew up. That same head coach that leveled criticisms about him early in his career also praised him several times and talked about how much better he'd gotten, and this isn't a guy that will hold back when he's dealing with a kid he genuinely considers to be an a-hole (see: Cox, Perrish). He's all rocked up so you know the guy works hard in the weight room. His attention to detail on the football field doesn't leave much to be desired, if anything. Every report I've ever read, even the 'anonymous' rumor mill type ones that use words like immaturity and forgetful, not smart, whatever...every single one says that he's a nice kid. His WRs coach absolutely raves about him, said that he's as good as Randy Moss, whom he also coached. Another WRs coach in the conference raves about him as a person, as per an acquaintance of mine who personally knows said coach. When Bryant says he'd die if he couldn't have football, I sure as hell believe him, considering his background and how football has been his life.

We're building a character case against this guy? I mean, really? This isn't Terrence Cody and his 400 pounds of mountainous flab. This isn't Percy Harvin who was caught multiple times smoking weed. This isn't Lawrence Phillips with a rap sheet as long as your arm, or any rap sheet whatsoever. This isn't Mike Williams who quit on his team. This isn't a guy that has shown ANY sign that he lacks respect for authority. This isn't Brandon Marshall with the cops showing up every other day for beating his woman.

I mean, really...at what point do we step back from all this man-made drama and say we're drafting football players not choosing candidates for acceptance at Princeton?


that was great...:up:

Zounds
03-31-2010, 12:24 PM
I think he's the best WR PROSPECT in the draft...but I think he's also potentially the most overrated player in the draft.....this kid isn't Andre Johnson....Calvin Johnson...or Larry Fitzgerald....I'm just telling you.....this top 5 pick propaganda is nonsense...


I have to agree with this. I don't think Bryant is going to be a trouble making diva WR, but his workout just reinforces his lack of drive and motivation. This guy had a lot of time off from football, and didnt do much to get himself prepared. He seems like a guy that will reach his peak the same day he gets his signing bonus. I'm not saying that will happen for sure, but I dont see our brass taking big risks in the first round.

aj13
03-31-2010, 01:13 PM
I think he runs routes extremely well. He does so many of the little things so precisely. He cuts his angles sharp to the QB in man and speeds into them in zone. He uses his head, god bless him he uses his head, hips and hands to work himself open. He reacts seamlessly to the QB and comes back to him when he's in trouble, his chemistry with Zac Robinson was extremely effective. He knows how to use his hands and body to shield the ball. I see people saying he doesn't run all the routes. Well, if there's a route I haven't seen him run, it's a new one to me...because he runs his routes DOWN the field, not a bunch short BS.

thanks so much ck...i dont get to watch tape...i go by what i hear from former execs like kirwan and brandt...then i translate that to what i hear...everyone says he runs bad routes and didnt run nfl routes...i guess that is just typical pre-draft hogwash...

finfan54
03-31-2010, 01:45 PM
He would've ran a 4.65 at the combine.....

I told you ALL he was scared to run for anybody a long time ago when he kept ducking out of everything.....

I think he's the best WR PROSPECT in the draft...but I think he's also potentially the most overrated player in the draft.....this kid isn't Andre Johnson....Calvin Johnson...or Larry Fitzgerald....I'm just telling you.....this top 5 pick propaganda is nonsense...

Seems like if you were suspended for basically an entire season....you'd at least learn how to run a good 40 by the time your pro-day rolled around.....or at least learn how to perform the drills....or at least remember that you can't do any of this **** for scouts barefoot....

This kid is one red flag after another....but the most interesting part about him is that they're always "little things".....one after another...after another..after another...

It seems like he lacks any attention to detail...about anything...everything.....and attention to detail is what seperates busts from good players...and good players to great players at the professional level...when athletic ability and talent can no longer allow you to coast...

He's going to need someone to hold his hand constantly...

If this kid flops in the pro's completely....or takes 5 years before he's mature enough to put it all together just so he can be a productive pro....you'll be able to look back on everything surrounding him and tell yourself...."I can't believe I didn't see THIS coming"....

Yeah...sounds like a top 5 pick to me...

I wouldn't touch any WR in this draft in the top 20 picks....

I think his biggest prob is work ethic.

Denver aint takin this guy. There already trying to get rid of Marshall. They are not doing this experiment all over again. We aint takin him. I see him dropping.