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View Full Version : CK's Mock Draft v. 2.0 - 4/6/2010



ckparrothead
04-07-2010, 12:38 AM
I have a new Mock Draft up on Universal. It's my 2nd version. I allow myself three mock drafts. As I say in the mock draft itself, I want to give myself the chance to adapt as this monstrous flow of information comes in week after week, but I do NOT want to give myself the chance to say so many different things that I get to claim to have always been right...at one time or another.

In some ways, it's pretty incredible how closely this second mock resembles the one I created 6 or 7 weeks ago, before Free Agency and before the Combine.

http://www.universaldraft.com/2010/04/06/cks-mock-draft-v2-0/

I imagine that my third one, which I usually release a few days before the draft, will turn this one on its head a little bit...but then again, maybe not.

Let me know what your guys' thoughts are, I know there's bound to be MASSIVE disagreement (as usual).

TXFinFan
04-07-2010, 12:45 AM
Interesting. You have the Broncos & Jags in the wrong order. Also, IMO, I think the Jags grab McClain & Dez falls to us, but I wouldn't be terribly disappointed with Graham as our pick.

nick1
04-07-2010, 12:49 AM
I like the Graham choice. I strongly believe either him or Earl Thomas is our pick at #12. I'm leaning towards Earl Thomas

finner
04-07-2010, 12:54 AM
He could start as a rookie???

Are you kidding -- given the holes in this team whoever we pick at #12 has to start or he'll be considered a bust! If Graham is the superman some think he is then he STARTS or we draft someone else who can.

SR 7
04-07-2010, 12:55 AM
I think McCoy goes to TB not Okung.

I actually agree with the rest.

JCfinfan
04-07-2010, 12:58 AM
I love the Graham pick. Nice mock!

Gordykr
04-07-2010, 12:58 AM
I like the Graham choice. I strongly believe either him or Earl Thomas is our pick at #12. I'm leaning towards Earl Thomas

The more i see of Thomas the more i like him as our pick , Graham would be a nice player in our system though so either one i'd be happy.

Phin-Phan 66
04-07-2010, 01:00 AM
Love the Graham choice. He's my pick as well.
Very well thought out mock - thanks for posting it.

ckparrothead
04-07-2010, 01:01 AM
Interesting. You have the Broncos & Jags in the wrong order. Also, IMO, I think the Jags grab McClain & Dez falls to us, but I wouldn't be terribly disappointed with Graham as our pick.

Good catch, I used the template from my first mock which was pre-coin flip. Forgot to adjust.

ckparrothead
04-07-2010, 01:06 AM
Brandon Graham was the guy in my mock draft six or seven weeks ago when I first created one.

If you want to know why, here is why (http://www.finheaven.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1063395002&postcount=60)...

NRA
04-07-2010, 01:10 AM
you never know what these teams will do. and there are
ALWAYS teams at the top or mid way through the first who
come up with those "WHAT THE HELL" selections.

that saying, i am hardly EVER real dogmatic about about
what any team will do or not do, unless they are in a prime
spot to take a dominant player that is there prime need.

ODERIK and JPP are WAY, WAY to high in this mock.

why anyone would take jpp in the first or second round is
beyond me. he does have mass pass rush skills, but 7
games of REAL college ball and not a run stopper or
shown the ability to drop back and cover [so far] is not
1st or second round material. right now, he would just be
a situational player and that hi up, you dont take situation
guys.

and if he doesnt turn out to be anything other than a part time
pass rusher, after spending a hi #1 on him? OUCH!!!!!

oderik is a good player, real potential, but i still see him
as a late first to mid second player.

but hey!! thats the fun of it all, right? these crazy teams
can do anything. these two may just go that hi, but i doubt
it, expecially with JPP.

ckparrothead
04-07-2010, 01:12 AM
JPP's got some real backing in the league.

NRA
04-07-2010, 01:16 AM
oh, and KUDOS on the BRANDON GRAHAM choice.

i have been on his band wagon BEFORE the senior bowl.

my favorite defensive player in this draft, hands down. to
me, he is the poster child for a bill parcells football player.

and there is NO better value than graham for defense. NONE!!

i just know that bill billichek is hoping and praying that teams
fall for that short arm nonsense and he falls to them. in fact, if
miami passes, it wouldnt suprise me at all to see billichek make
a move to get him.

NRA
04-07-2010, 01:18 AM
JPP's got some real backing in the league.



so did ryan leaf and tony mandrich.

the leauge is dead wrong HUNDREDS of times every year.

j-off-her-doll
04-07-2010, 01:28 AM
I'd be happy with Graham in the 1st. After Berry and Bryant (ruled Spiller out for the Phins), it's Thomas and Graham. There are things I love about both, so it's hard for me to rate one the other. But, assuming it's between those two, I think the selection will have have as much to do with how much we like the players we project to be there at #43.

In other words, I like B. Graham and M. Burnett more than E. Thomas and Gibson. But, E. Thomas and J. Hughes is another story. I think the first scenario is far more likely than the third, so Graham is looking more and more like the pick to me. Of course, we might go WR with the 2nd pick.

Pat-London
04-07-2010, 01:32 AM
Love the Clausen to the Vikes pick, have been thinking for a while now if he gets out of the top 10 he could well go here. Would be a great fit too with all that young talent around him. If he goes to Buffalo he wont be as successful as quickly, he wont have the supporting cast.

Tunaphish429
04-07-2010, 01:37 AM
There is no way Clausen falls that far...No way

DcRy82
04-07-2010, 01:38 AM
Brandon Graham is 3rd on my list of 3 players (realistically speaking) that I want in the 1st round. If we get D. Bryant, E. Thomas, or B. Graham, or miraculously Eric Berry, I will be a happy Phin Fan.

CK, based on what you have projected in round 1, how do you think Miami's round 2 pans out? looks as though you have Tate and Benn available in the 2nd. Do you think one of them falls to us and we take them, or do you think we go in a different direction such as Morgan Burnett or Nate Allen at FS?

Quadfather
04-07-2010, 01:47 AM
I like the graham pick. the position that we need most, that will have the biggest impact on our team, is OLB. love the whole mock, only thing i would say is no way gerald mccoy gets past the bucs. other than that it is spot on, best ive seen.

WelcomeBack
04-07-2010, 01:48 AM
Graham with Burnett or Benn in round 2 and Mike Williams or Major Wright in round 3 seems nice. That is of course is Mike Williams has his head in the game.

Dogbone34
04-07-2010, 01:52 AM
i'm still feeling the parcells/pioli connection, a trade up to #5.

Miami Dolphin starting Free Safety - Eric Berry

TedSlimmJr
04-07-2010, 02:03 AM
I really like where you have Kareem Jackson going....I think he's the perfect fit for the Steelers and Dick Lebeau...

I also really like where you have Kindle and the reasoning you gave behind it. He thinks and plays like a stand-up linebacker...which is what he will be asked to do in the NFL....not DE... You and I might be the only two people around here that like Kindle... When you forecast his skillset and athletic ability to the next level in a 2-point stance....there's not a helluva lot NOT to like...

I don't think Clausen makes it past the 49ers....if he does...someone will trade up for him before he ever makes it to Minnesota...(which would be an EXCELLENT spot for him though)....

Aqua and Orange
04-07-2010, 02:34 AM
I'd be happy with Graham in the first. I agree with you that Dez won't fall past the Jags.

Interesting choice for the Jets. I still think they will actually go with Cody, especially since New York is a walking city and he can keep some of that weight off ;)

showstopper
04-07-2010, 03:09 AM
Hey CK, if Dez is still available at 12, do you still take Graham? And yes, I have seen your big board, but I still have to ask?

ChambersWI
04-07-2010, 03:15 AM
I really like where you have Kareem Jackson going....I think he's the perfect fit for the Steelers and Dick Lebeau...

I also really like where you have Kindle and the reasoning you gave behind it. He thinks and plays like a stand-up linebacker...which is what he will be asked to do in the NFL....not DE... You and I might be the only two people around here that like Kindle... When you forecast his skillset and athletic ability to the next level in a 2-point stance....there's not a helluva lot NOT to like...

I don't think Clausen makes it past the 49ers....if he does...someone will trade up for him before he ever makes it to Minnesota...(which would be an EXCELLENT spot for him though)....

I've slowly been warming up to Kindle again, but he scares me in run defense.

hooshoops
04-07-2010, 03:21 AM
i'm not warming to kindle...but i can see him going to the pats there if graham is off the board...

i see you've bought into the jared odrich to the browns hype...i think its pure smokescreen personally and that cleveland would jump at eric berry if he was there...

i also don't see how tampa goes o tackle with a guy like gerald mccoy staring them in the face...tampa actually offered more contract money to haynesworth all told when he was a free agent so i think they're willing to spend top 3 money on a dt...

other than that and taylor mays at #21 to cinci i don't really see much to argue with you about...i think cinci would pounce on jermaine gresham if he's there with that pick...but if not baltimore for sure would as you have forecasted...

as for my landing spot for jared odrich...new england if graham is off the board at pick #22 over kindle to replace seymour...

fin-atic
04-07-2010, 03:41 AM
Sorry. I just dont see Miami going LB with this pick. With Crowder's new contract from last year, and now Dansby's salary, this would be too much money to tie up in the LB position. I believe if Bryant is on the board he is the pick. If not then it's Earl Thomas.

That's my two cents.

Danny
04-07-2010, 04:13 AM
so did ryan leaf and tony mandrich.

the leauge is dead wrong HUNDREDS of times every year.

The NFL has been wrong 100's of time but wrong that many times every year?....there're about 250 picks only each year......considering that "hundreds" of times is at least a few hundreds then that doesn't hold water.....I do agree that JJP and the other D-lineman should not go that high and I sure hope we don't take either one.

Ozzy rules!!

PhinsTD
04-07-2010, 05:02 AM
Last time I checked, a mock draft is what the person thinks will happen, not what they think should happen or where a player should be picked. CK has made it well known he's not a JPP fan, and he loves Odrick.

This is merely his attempt at playing GM for the 32 teams on the clock in a few weeks.

hooshoops
04-07-2010, 05:05 AM
last time i checked he asked for our opinions...

Ozfin77
04-07-2010, 05:20 AM
I dont see Cleveland going with Odrick either. I think its a smokescreen and they'll take Clausen or Berry.

As for Brandon Graham, I love this pick! I've been on this guy since the Wolverines played Wisconsin last last year and REALLY hope he's wearing our cap on draft night.

ckparrothead
04-07-2010, 05:25 AM
I really like where you have Kareem Jackson going....I think he's the perfect fit for the Steelers and Dick Lebeau...

I also really like where you have Kindle and the reasoning you gave behind it. He thinks and plays like a stand-up linebacker...which is what he will be asked to do in the NFL....not DE... You and I might be the only two people around here that like Kindle... When you forecast his skillset and athletic ability to the next level in a 2-point stance....there's not a helluva lot NOT to like...

I don't think Clausen makes it past the 49ers....if he does...someone will trade up for him before he ever makes it to Minnesota...(which would be an EXCELLENT spot for him though)....

Yeah I hate to just openly hate on Kindle constantly like others do. I do see the problems with his direction change ability and footwork. I think in general he wastes a lot of his own body motion which can slow him down. I just think he looks inexperienced and wonder if he'll look cleaner in lets say a year from now? Less wasted motion, quicker direction change? What happens when you just allow that explosion to shine?

I don't want him at #12...absolutely not, think there are much better guys available. But I'm not saying "no" at #43 that's for sure.

And actually I had Kareem to the Steelers in my first iteration, I think his physical style as well as his man to man cover skills, as you say...good scheme fit.

You could be right about Clausen to the 49ers. I could see Mike Singletary thinking he doesn't care what anyone says about his personality, he'll shape him into a football player with his fiery eyes or maybe by pulling his pants down and showing him his naked buttocks. ;)

ckparrothead
04-07-2010, 05:27 AM
Hey CK, if Dez is still available at 12, do you still take Graham? And yes, I have seen your big board, but I still have to ask?

LOL. It's ok I won't bite. The answer is yes. My short board is

1. Eric Berry
2. Dez Bryant
3. Brandon Graham
4. C.J. Spiller

That's my short board by the way, not the Dolphins' short board. I don't know what theirs' looks like, though I could make some educated guesses.

ckparrothead
04-07-2010, 05:30 AM
i'm not warming to kindle...but i can see him going to the pats there if graham is off the board...

i see you've bought into the jared odrich to the browns hype...i think its pure smokescreen personally and that cleveland would jump at eric berry if he was there...

i also don't see how tampa goes o tackle with a guy like gerald mccoy staring them in the face...tampa actually offered more contract money to haynesworth all told when he was a free agent so i think they're willing to spend top 3 money on a dt...

other than that and taylor mays at #21 to cinci i don't really see much to argue with you about...i think cinci would pounce on jermaine gresham if he's there with that pick...but if not baltimore for sure would as you have forecasted...

as for my landing spot for jared odrich...new england if graham is off the board at pick #22 over kindle to replace seymour...

Yes I have bought into it hook, line and sinker. I was ready to put him at #7 to the Browns 6-7 weeks ago but decided against it with someone like Spiller on the board. It doesn't take much to be a guy that wouldn't take a safety at a #7 overall pick, it's actually kind of a default stance...and I can see Mike Holmgren thinking exactly that.

As for the Tampa thing I admit that's just my hunch. I'm not sure I buy reports about them having offered Haynesworth more money. I think they're ridiculously cheap and they would look to trade out for a crust of stale bread and a sip of caffeine free diet pepsi. Absent that they'll go for the highest player rated at a position that actually gets paid the kind of money they'll be on the hook for at #3.

aj13
04-07-2010, 05:31 AM
I can finally agree with Mel Kiper today when he said this team needs flash...On either side of the ball...it needs a star for the 3-4 or a star on offense...

bryant, spiller....offensive stars

kindo, graham, williams 3-4 stars...

the intrigue is over earl thomas...he fits a need and has had 2 looks...id say the trifecta is interested...

ckparrothead
04-07-2010, 05:34 AM
I don't think the Browns are impervious to leaks happening 2 weeks before the draft. I think they're impervious to leaks happening 3 months before the draft. Joe Haden was the smoke screen. I think Odrick is the real deal.

J Tes
04-07-2010, 07:01 AM
LOL. It's ok I won't bite. The answer is yes. My short board is

1. Eric Berry
2. Dez Bryant
3. Brandon Graham
4. C.J. Spiller

That's my short board by the way, not the Dolphins' short board. I don't know what theirs' looks like, though I could make some educated guesses.

Whats your educated guess?

ckparrothead
04-07-2010, 07:18 AM
Whats your educated guess?

I don't believe their short board includes C.J. Spiller. And Brandon Graham might be above Dez Bryant on it.

Pinkboy
04-07-2010, 08:01 AM
I've been thinking Graham could very well be our guy for a long time..

Been talking about it/him for months. Take away the height thing, but he has all the other 10 things this front office looks for in a player... more than anyone else that we could land aside from Berry (and even he's a reach as he won't be there at 12 and we'd have to trade up for him).

Graham would be a great, solid pick. And a very safe one. You don't have to worry about the bust factor at all with this guy.,

Jake, Vontae, Graham as your 3 first rounders in your first 3 years with the team?? What a great improvement compared to the incompetence we had previously running the team.

There's no silly Teddy Bear Ginn and J Allen picks in that mix.... at least not in the 1st round. heh

MadDog 88
04-07-2010, 09:03 AM
The first thing that stands out is 4 of the first 5 picks are lineman, 3 being OT. Is this teams choosing the safe route or is the talent real top heavy on the line this year? The Jags are the one team that I am worried will take Dez off the board. If not, it will be interesting to see if they go with Dez over Graham.

I have been watching Graham for a couple of seasons. Although he is just shy of what they like in size, I don't think it will prevent them from taking him. He stood out on a horrible Michigan defense last year. His speed and power from the edge were quite impressive.

TheBow305
04-07-2010, 09:07 AM
If Dez and Berry went off the board with the 2 picks right before us I would seriously be sick to my stomach.

That being said, I'm sticking to my prediction that Graham will 100% NOT be our pick. I'd say Earl Thomas, Derrick Morgan or Sergio Kindle are more likely there.

Mr. Magoo
04-07-2010, 10:11 AM
I find it hard to believe the Jaguars would look anywhere other than their defensive front seven that high. Sure, they could use another receiver. And a right guard. And two new starting safeties. But they only had like 14 sacks last year, which is beyond pitiful. More than anything else they need to find ways to rush the passer. The Kampman signing was a good one but I don't think they're going to feel comfortable leaving it at that, especially with him coming off an injury and being no spring chicken.

ghostface95
04-07-2010, 10:34 AM
Graham wouldn't be a disappointing pick imho

MadDog 88
04-07-2010, 01:39 PM
I find it hard to believe the Jaguars would look anywhere other than their defensive front seven that high. Sure, they could use another receiver. And a right guard. And two new starting safeties. But they only had like 14 sacks last year, which is beyond pitiful. More than anything else they need to find ways to rush the passer. The Kampman signing was a good one but I don't think they're going to feel comfortable leaving it at that, especially with him coming off an injury and being no spring chicken.

The arguments against Dez on this site are basically that we need to build defense. That is the same logic you're applying to the Jags. Those for Dez feel there is enough talent in a very deep draft to get Dez at 12 and build the defense after.

So my question to you is, do you prefer Dez at 12 or filling a defensive hole?

Orlando Fan
04-07-2010, 04:17 PM
Oakland and Al Davis is such a wild card I expect them to reach for someone yet again, so The pick in CK's Mock would not surprise me a bit. As for the Fins Graham would be a good pick, but if Berry happens to fall to us no question we take him. I expect Dez off the board before the Fins pick. If its between Graham or Thomas. I think it's Thomas by a hair, either way both player will fill a hole and both should be able to start as a rookie.

Chubby
04-07-2010, 04:26 PM
Ck bud, nice Mock. One point to mention is there is no way in hell Falcons are letting Spoon pass them if he is there at their pick which he should be. Pass Rush is also their next big need.

Seriously put their who fan base on suicide watch if they dont select Spoon or B. Graham.

Jets:
Think they are really high on Cody.

Fins:
Graham no complaints, huge hole, best prospect to fit that hole its a win win.

Cinci:
They need a TE badly.

SF:
Rumors are they are looking for pass rush help early on.

Disappointed that D. Thomas is looking more and more like he is going to go in the 1st, I really want him to slip total man crush here.
Chubbs

rev kev
04-07-2010, 05:11 PM
Ck bud, nice Mock. One point to mention is there is no way in hell Falcons are letting Spoon pass them if he is there at their pick which he should be. Pass Rush is also their next big need.

Seriously put their who fan base on suicide watch if they dont select Spoon or B. Graham.

Jets:
Think they are really high on Cody.

Fins:
Graham no complaints, huge hole, best prospect to fit that hole its a win win.

Cinci:
They need a TE badly.

SF:
Rumors are they are looking for pass rush help early on.

Disappointed that D. Thomas is looking more and more like he is going to go in the 1st, I really want him to slip total man crush here.
Chubbs

Pats = J Odrick (sp?)

OTs and Dline will be flying off the board - perhaps a trade down is in the works and Thomas is our guy

Chubby
04-07-2010, 05:21 PM
Pats = J Odrick (sp?)

OTs and Dline will be flying off the board - perhaps a trade down is in the works and Thomas is our guy
This is a good point. I think the value is there if we move away from 12, but my worry is where do the fins value Thomas?
Chubbs

PhinsTD
04-07-2010, 05:42 PM
Hooshoops, sure give your opinion, but if someone is going to, make sure it reflects what's being talked about. A reply referenced Odrick not being rated that highly. He didn't say he rated him that highly, he is predicting where he thinks people will go.

See the difference? Anyway, carry on. I usually enjoy your posts, but I wanted to clear my point.

hooshoops
04-07-2010, 05:51 PM
Hooshoops, sure give your opinion, but if someone is going to, make sure it reflects what's being talked about. A reply referenced Odrick not being rated that highly. He didn't say he rated him that highly, he is predicting where he thinks people will go.

See the difference? Anyway, carry on. I usually enjoy your posts, but I wanted to clear my point.

ahhh i got ya...but i do know from past discussions with ck that he is very high on odrick...

and what do you mean "i usually enjoy your posts"...lol

hooshoops
04-07-2010, 05:56 PM
for my money the talent level in this draft drops off slightly after about the top 12...of course i think need will trump talent for some teams...so maybe you can get away with a top 15 pick in that regard getting a premium talent...anything lower than that and i think you risk losing slightly on the talent front...

that's just my take

Mr. Magoo
04-07-2010, 06:09 PM
The arguments against Dez on this site are basically that we need to build defense. That is the same logic you're applying to the Jags. Those for Dez feel there is enough talent in a very deep draft to get Dez at 12 and build the defense after.

So my question to you is, do you prefer Dez at 12 or filling a defensive hole?

That's a good point. I'd have to say I prefer Dez to anyone who would reasonably be there... except Eric Berry. But, I'd also say that we have a much bigger hole at WR than the Jags do. Simms-Walker has already turned into one of the best young WRs in the game. Taking Dez that high would be like, well... Dallas taking him with Miles Austin already on the roster (lol). What the Jags need is a possession guy and a slot guy opposite him, and you can find those down the draft. But on the other hand their GM is a well known damn-the-torpedoes, BPA drafter. It could happen.

hooshoops
04-07-2010, 06:15 PM
i think the jags will go def end pass rusher...maybe a derrick morgan

TheBow305
04-07-2010, 06:16 PM
The arguments against Dez on this site are basically that we need to build defense. That is the same logic you're applying to the Jags. Those for Dez feel there is enough talent in a very deep draft to get Dez at 12 and build the defense after.

So my question to you is, do you prefer Dez at 12 or filling a defensive hole?

Dez all the way! Unless we're filling that hole with Berry ;)

Mr. Magoo
04-07-2010, 06:20 PM
i think the jags will go def end pass rusher...maybe a derrick morgan

That's exactly who I'd pencil in as well. Morgan's no slouch, after all. If he were more fluid in space I'd project him to us, as well. Still might happen.

ckparrothead
04-07-2010, 06:26 PM
I came close to pegging Morgan for them but I really think they're going to want to give Groves and Harvey more time.

I suppose they could go linebacker but I think they like what they have there as well. I very nearly gave them Joe Haden, because I think Derek Cox is a slot CB and their CB depth is very poor.

JBinSD
04-07-2010, 06:29 PM
Great mock CK. I can't help but think that we are going for Brandon Graham, he seems to have Parcells / Ireland written across his forehead.

When you watched the tape, how good is he at sinking his hips and sustaining speed?

thejetssuck
04-07-2010, 06:45 PM
If Dez and Berry went off the board with the 2 picks right before us I would seriously be sick to my stomach.

That being said, I'm sticking to my prediction that Graham will 100% NOT be our pick. I'd say Earl Thomas, Derrick Morgan or Sergio Kindle are more likely there.

DITTO!!!!!! :( :kill:

J Tes
04-07-2010, 06:49 PM
I don't believe their short board includes C.J. Spiller. And Brandon Graham might be above Dez Bryant on it.

So maybe something like
Eric Berry
Brandon Graham
Dez Bryant
Earl Thomas
Derrick Morgan

?????

qmar
04-07-2010, 07:03 PM
I have a new Mock Draft up on Universal. It's my 2nd version. I allow myself three mock drafts. As I say in the mock draft itself, I want to give myself the chance to adapt as this monstrous flow of information comes in week after week, but I do NOT want to give myself the chance to say so many different things that I get to claim to have always been right...at one time or another.

In some ways, it's pretty incredible how closely this second mock resembles the one I created 6 or 7 weeks ago, before Free Agency and before the Combine.

http://www.universaldraft.com/2010/04/06/cks-mock-draft-v2-0/

I imagine that my third one, which I usually release a few days before the draft, will turn this one on its head a little bit...but then again, maybe not.

Let me know what your guys' thoughts are, I know there's bound to be MASSIVE disagreement (as usual).

CK, good mock. Find it hard to believe Berry drops to Denver, but you never know.

The one thing I will mention about your commentary on the Graham pick is that if we take an OLB, that player MUST be a starter for us. This can't be a "well, we think he can start in late 2010 and really make an impact in 2011 and beyond". This is the #12 pick and we're taking a position that is far and away our biggest need. That player better start for us. I think regardless if it's a FS or OLB, whoever is drafted there better be starting. I say this b/c you mentioned Graham "can" be a starter next year. I believe the Phins are going to draft someone they KNOW WILL BE the starter next year. Maybe that's Graham, maybe not, just my thoughts.

hooshoops
04-07-2010, 07:30 PM
That's exactly who I'd pencil in as well. Morgan's no slouch, after all. If he were more fluid in space I'd project him to us, as well. Still might happen.

with you all the way on that one...i'm uneasy about morgan as an olb also...

i could see as ck said joe haden going there also...i just can't see that guy making it out of the top 15 or so picks...not after he improved his 40 so much at his pro day...and i think every front office that saw his 40 at the combine had to be thinking what kind of stance is that??? no wonder he ran slow...

ckparrothead
04-07-2010, 07:31 PM
So maybe something like
Eric Berry
Brandon Graham
Dez Bryant
Earl Thomas
Derrick Morgan

?????

Possibly. Jerry Hughes might be there as well.

hooshoops
04-07-2010, 07:33 PM
i haven't seen any play for jerry hughes from us at all...i gotta say i don't get it...

ckparrothead
04-07-2010, 07:34 PM
Great mock CK. I can't help but think that we are going for Brandon Graham, he seems to have Parcells / Ireland written across his forehead.

When you watched the tape, how good is he at sinking his hips and sustaining speed?

That's a problem. He didn't often have to sustain speed because of the position he played. I mean, you've watched a ton of Dolphins games I presume. How good is Kendall Langford at sinking his hips and sustaining speed? See what I mean, now?

From what little I have seen, and no doubt the Dolphins have seen a lot more through Senior Bowl practices and workouts, etc, but from what I've seen I think he has the pure ability to sustain speed very well. He has a lot of running ability. I also think that his hip level is fine, and he runs very balanced with his feet under him, giving him COD skills.

ckparrothead
04-07-2010, 07:35 PM
i haven't seen any play for jerry hughes from us at all...i gotta say i don't get it...

Well, nor have wee seen any play for Brandon Graham.

hooshoops
04-07-2010, 07:37 PM
Well, nor have wee seen any play for Brandon Graham.

huh...well i saw brandon graham on you alls list of players we have shown interest in that i think boomer put together and i asked him if we had made any contact with graham and he said yes at the senior bowl but none since...

i sure hope hughes is in play...

Dogbone34
04-07-2010, 07:38 PM
Kiper was just on Cowherd. Colin loves Parcells so he asked about the Dolphins.

Kiper admitted always liking the Dolphins (shula) and Rams growing up. Mel threw out the usual suspects for Miami, Dan Williams, Sergio Kindle, Earl Thomas, Jerry Hughes and possibly Dez Bryant.

ckparrothead
04-07-2010, 07:42 PM
huh...well i saw brandon graham on you alls list of players we have shown interest in that i think boomer put together and i asked him if we had made any contact with graham and he said yes at the senior bowl but none since...

i sure hope hughes is in play...

I'm sure they made contact with most players at the Senior Bowl though.

hooshoops
04-07-2010, 07:44 PM
that youtube video that ck put the link to on here of graham doing lb drills in prep for the combine while somewhat limited eased my concerns about grahams ability to play in space and change direction etc...

he made smooth transitions for my eyes and like ck said was well balanced...no wasted motions either...

i'm sold

PhinsTD
04-07-2010, 07:46 PM
Doesn't Hughes have a similar skill set to Wake? When I watch TCU, I always end up marveling more at Washington than Hughes, though I do agree Hughes is the best pass rusher in this draft.

I'm definitely in the minority, but I'd rather have Washington than Hughes.

ckparrothead
04-07-2010, 07:47 PM
You know who else is a Dolphins fan, Daniel Tosh from Comedy Central's Tosh.0

I was watching a re-run yesterday and he was making fun of the crying Giants fan who has a YouTube video of him crying his eyes out after the Giants lost in the playoffs. During his monologue Tosh said "The only time I cried over football was when Tom Brady got injured, and those were tears of joy. Your coach is a cheater, your rings are a lie, go back home you Michigan backup. I'm a Dolphins fan. We lose a lot (thanks to the 'Wildcat'). But I save my tears for important things, like when I get a stain on my cardigan sweater."

Was a great moment. When he did his segment with the crying Giants kid, he was wearing a Dolphins shirt.

RealDriscoll
04-07-2010, 07:47 PM
My Dolphins Draft Board Looks Like this...

1. Eric Berry-FS-Tennessee
2. Dez Bryant-WR-Oklahoma State
3. Sergio Kindle-OLB-Texas
4. CJ Spiller-RB-Clemson
5. Earl Thomas-FS-Texas
6. Brandon Graham-OLB-Michigan
7. Jared Odrick-DT-Penn State
8. Derrick Morgan-SOLB-Georgia Tech
9. Dan Williams-NT-Tennessee
10. Rolando McClain-ILB-Alabama

ckparrothead
04-07-2010, 07:50 PM
Doesn't Hughes have a similar skill set to Wake? When I watch TCU, I always end up marveling more at Washington than Hughes, though I do agree Hughes is the best pass rusher in this draft.

I'm definitely in the minority, but I'd rather have Washington than Hughes.

Actually yeah that is one concern about Hughes is he's become such a dangerous player because he's such a good outside pass rusher with a wide variety of moves and speed to kill. But I think he's just that good period, he can play standing up and has good leg power, moves like a scatback. He's a Cameron Wake+, not a Cameron Wake.

I do like Washington a lot. He's a very attacking player that can most definitely play three downs in the NFL and he flashes the ability to get off blocks which means the upside is that he COULD end up the absolute ideal 3-4 ILB. It's hard to find a three down 3-4 ILB.

Playmaker76
04-07-2010, 07:52 PM
[quote=TedSlimmJr;1063397787]

"I also really like where you have Kindle and the reasoning you gave behind it. He thinks and plays like a stand-up linebacker...which is what he will be asked to do in the NFL....not DE... You and I might be the only two people around here that like Kindle... When you forecast his skillset and athletic ability to the next level in a 2-point stance....there's not a helluva lot NOT to like..."


Count me in as another person that really likes Kindle and would be ecstatic if he is our pick. The reason he is not ranked high on most mock drafts is because he would not be able to play in a 4-3 and would be a wasted pick for those teams. If every team in the league ran a 3-4 he would be mocked in the top ten easily.

He is the prototype playmaking 3-4 OLB we need for Nolan's schemes. Everyone else is a question mark whether they can transition to 3-4 OLB except maybe Graham because that was his position in high school.

If Dez is off the board I would try to trade down between 13-21 and then take Kindle as all of the teams there except Pittsburgh (who is stacked at OLB and won't pick one) plays a 4-3 defense and probably won't take Kindle.

PhinsTD
04-07-2010, 07:57 PM
A Cam Wake + is certainly a good thing. #12 overall good? I'm not sure I've come that far on Hughes, and with positional value, and other talent there, I wouldn't take Washington at 12, but at 43 I'd consider it depending on who is there.

I'm also in the camp that thinks Culver could be fine as FS this year though. So many different ways we could go this year, I really wish we had another second rounder.

hooshoops
04-07-2010, 07:57 PM
Doesn't Hughes have a similar skill set to Wake? When I watch TCU, I always end up marveling more at Washington than Hughes, though I do agree Hughes is the best pass rusher in this draft.

I'm definitely in the minority, but I'd rather have Washington than Hughes.

hughes is MUCH more fluid in space and has better awareness than wake...much better feet beautiful in his back pedal and transition imo...

both elite pure pass rushers imo...

PhinsTD
04-07-2010, 11:54 PM
Honestly, I just haven't seen Wake backpedal and transition enough to make a definitive judgment. I assume since he wasn't asked to do it much, that's not a strength of his.

Hughes is an extremely fluid athlete for his size, and will bring top shelf value with his acceleration, ability to rip and rush the passer, and speed off the edge.

Honestly, I'm hoping the Phins use a Smiley, or Ginn etc as chips to move up in the second to get their hands on a pass rusher if they take Dez, or a WR if they take Graham. With the night off, teams will have more time to pull off deals in the round etc to move up to get players they covet.

Coming out with Dez/Hughes, Griffen, or Kindle or Graham/Tate or Benn would be a great start to the draft. I prefer to wait for the LG in this draft personally.

hooshoops
04-08-2010, 02:30 AM
i've seen wake be asked to drop into a soft zone in the preseason and it wasn't pretty...i just think he's lost in space...maybe he gets it in time...i guess we'll see...but really he hasn't shown much as a standup player either...not that he got many opportunities last year doing that either...

i do agree though that we need to move up in round 2 and grab a wr or olb if one makes it into the 30's that we're very high on...absolutely

Conuficus
04-08-2010, 04:43 AM
Well, my personal choice is Hughes before Graham...I just think Hughes can be ridiculously dangerous coming off the edge in 2-3 years. What should intrigue people s that he has only played on the defensive side of the ball since going to TCU. He's just scratching the surface of how good he can be as a pass rusher. His hand placement is awful at times, and he doesn't not engage blockers in "textbook" fashion for lack of a better term.

One thing that makes me want him more than the other pass rushers at 12 is simply his ability to close and get to the QB. If Hughes is coming off that edge and gets free, rarely will a QB out pace him. He will track that man down very well. Graham's first step is better, but Hughes tracks better IMO.

CK will disagree with me in there, but we've had our conversations regarding Graham v Hughes. I wouldn't cry about Graham, but I want Hughes.

finfan54
04-08-2010, 06:43 AM
well, I dont think Graham at 12 is what we will do. I think we like Graham as a pass rusher but I think they think we need an OLB/DE type who is big, shuts off edge, rushes passer on 3rd down, and does all things well but nothing noticeably great. Thats the parcells way.

I think if we do the traditional two-pick at same position, I think they would do cartwheels if we had Graham at 43 and then have your future LB's set for quite some time. Then we would scadattal for a NT and S. WR would not happen unless we manage to trade Smiley for a pick.

When Morgan was looked at by us, my common sense kicked in with the mindset of Parcells. They need/want a guy to shut off the edge. Thats why we consistantly look at guys who are that size and talk of even moving Merling there. Watch what they say in regards to their system, not in regards to has more flash. I just dont see Graham after the comments about his short arms.

hooshoops
04-08-2010, 06:52 AM
brandon grahams arms at the combine measured out at 32 1/2 inches...they're long enough...the short arms thing has been nixed...good grief we're not talking about a left tackle here

ckparrothead
04-08-2010, 05:52 PM
His Pro Day should be today. I'm hoping for good news. Not only do I want the Fins to take him at #12, I at the very least want him to be good enough to where there's no doubt he'll go too high for the Patriots or Jets to be able to get him.

ckparrothead
04-08-2010, 11:16 PM
Jeff Ireland let slip during the Q&A of today's press conference that because of Nolan's success using certain players, OLB is specifically a position where they might make exception to their height prototypes.

PhinsTD
04-08-2010, 11:20 PM
Excellent news CK. Bryant/Graham/Thomas and life is good.

Someone other than one of those three and it's sad panda.

Mr. Magoo
04-08-2010, 11:38 PM
Jeff Ireland let slip during the Q&A of today's press conference that because of Nolan's success using certain players, OLB is specifically a position where they might make exception to their height prototypes.

I was very happy to see that. I know I've been one of the people saying Brandon Graham was not too likely to be the pick given the history of these guys -- and Ireland even alluded to that -- but I've also been very clear that I was a huge fan of Graham's and would be ecstatic if he were a Dolphin in two weeks.

Not as ecstatic as I would be to have Dez Bryant, or piss-my-pants excited as I would be to have Eric Berry. But still, it'd be a party.

ckparrothead
04-08-2010, 11:41 PM
I was very happy to see that. I know I've been one of the people saying Brandon Graham was not too likely to be the pick given the history of these guys -- and Ireland even alluded to that -- but I've also been very clear that I was a huge fan of Graham's and would be ecstatic if he were a Dolphin in two weeks.

Not as ecstatic as I would be to have Dez Bryant, or piss-my-pants excited as I would be to have Eric Berry. But still, it'd be a party.

LOL, nice way of putting it.

hooshoops
04-08-2010, 11:42 PM
i'm glad he's thinking height is something they'll work with on olbs but i sure wish he didn't let the media know that...

cause now no team is gonna be able to say that the dolphins won't take olb x cause he doesn't fit their height requirements etc when debating moving up or who will be available to them likely at future picks...

said too much imo...

ckparrothead
04-08-2010, 11:47 PM
Probably said too much, but it was very inoccuous. It's a big deal because you see it presented by me, and I was specifically looking for some chink in the 'prototype' armor. Omar Kelly wrote a piece about this and his thoughts on Karlos Dansby, and in it he walked away thinking that Ireland was only saying that he might make an exception in the lower rounds but definitely not the higher rounds.

For the most part I think they've succeeded in making people think they wouldn't take a guy with Brandon Graham's height at #12. You don't see him mocked to Miami often and there are people out there convinced they wouldn't take him, and speculating hot and heavy about guys like Sergio Kindle.

Aqua and Orange
04-09-2010, 12:04 AM
As a Dolphins fan, I have conditioned myself to disappointment.

That means with all of the sexy talk of Dez Bryant, Brandon Graham, Eric Berry, and Earl Thomas...I can't shake this feeling we go with Dan Williams or JPP and the collective fanbase groans.

ckparrothead
04-09-2010, 01:35 AM
Based on Jeff Ireland's press conference today, I would predict the following:

1. Brandon Graham is on the board at #12, but so are Dez Bryant and Earl Thomas.
2. Dan Williams is NOT on the board at #12, they believe they can get a NT later.
3. To that end, bet on Cam Thomas in R2 or R3.
4. I honestly believe Jason Taylor is in their plans.
5. They will not draft Derrick Morgan.

How's that for going on record? We'll see if I'm right or wrong. I could just be making this **** up as I go along though, lol.

JT-forpresident
04-09-2010, 01:36 AM
Based on Jeff Ireland's press conference today, I would predict the following:

1. Brandon Graham is on the board at #12, but so are Dez Bryant and Earl Thomas.
2. Dan Williams is NOT on the board at #12, they believe they can get a NT later.
3. To that end, bet on Cam Thomas in R2 or R3.
4. I honestly believe Jason Taylor is in their plans.


dan williams was never an option IMO ...


Ireland/Parcells know how to find big bodies later in the draft, and they love to do so... i just look at Jay Ratliff and it's enough to convince me

ckparrothead
04-09-2010, 01:42 AM
dan williams was never an option IMO ...


Ireland/Parcells know how to find big bodies later in the draft, and they love to do so... i just look at Jay Ratliff and it's enough to convince me

See that's where I disagree. I think they believe there's really only one or two big guys that could play the nose in any given draft.

Remember, they DRAFTED Jay Ratliff low. They didn't place a **** ton of value on him when they drafted him. And I honestly think they might have drafted him to play DE and just found that they were blown away by what he showed them in practice and camp and whatnot.

Anyway when Jeff Ireland says there are some "rare" aspects of this draft...to me he's talking about the fact that instead of only one or two "big men" in this draft as is usual, there's actually at least four that they really think can play on nose. They are Dan Williams, Cam Thomas, Terrence Cody and Linval Joseph. And there are probably more than that as well. That's fairly rare.

Put that together with what hooshoops heard from him during the season...I think they're thinking along the lines of Cam Thomas being their guy at a later round rather than Dan Williams early.

PhinsTD
04-09-2010, 03:14 AM
I would groan over Cam Thomas, but I'm guy at a computer on a message board.

hooshoops
04-09-2010, 03:43 AM
yep...i think cam thomas is the guy...2nd or 3rd round if he's there i think we will pick him...i sure hope 3rd at the earliest...

upgrading nose tackle sure seems to be on irelands mind a lot...

i did hear ireland say that despite ratliff being a 7th round pick he was higher on their board...just happened to be there the 7th when they got around to him...

ckparrothead
04-09-2010, 10:17 AM
He didn't say that Ratliff was specifically one of those guys. He said that some of those late round guys that turned out to be steals were guys that they had rated higher but were still available. Ratliff could be among them but he didn't specify.