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krosston
04-08-2010, 01:11 AM
I found this ranking of WRs on Scout.com (http://www.scout.com/2/960284.html ). If this is accurate, Bryant could be a complete bust. If we were to draft Bryant, he would be expected to be the No. 1 target out of the box. Who is around to mentor him, Ted Ginn? The thought of Bryant ending up like Charles Rogers scares the hell out of me.

"2. Dez Bryant, Oklahoma State 6-2, 225 (Jr.)
On sheer talent and raw ability he has all the tools to be the next NFL superstar receiver. He’s big, strong, fast, and productive with the want-to when it comes to fighting for the ball to go along with the desire to succeed. He’s tough, will beat up the weaker corners, and he’s just shifty enough to make big things happen in the open field. So what’s the problem? There are some huge, waving, bright red flags about his character, maturity, and ability to handle himself as a pro at the next level. When the coaches say something negative about a player, that should be a warning sign. OSU insiders have said that Bryant has about a five-second attention span, can’t focus on anything, and can’t be counted on to grasp the intricacies of the pro game. If he goes somewhere with a veteran, talented receiver and can be a protégé (sort of like Cris Carter was for Randy Moss), the talent could be tapped. If he goes somewhere and has to be the No. 1 target out of the box, there’s Charles Rogers"

MiamiDolfan85
04-08-2010, 01:16 AM
its a good thing Miami runs the ball enough to unwarrant the need for a true no. 1 WR.....

TXFinFan
04-08-2010, 01:18 AM
As stated in plenty of other places (if you care to look), Dez Bryant's "red flags" are all ridiculously overblown. I don't think he'll have any problem stepping into a #1 receiver role from day one. Not that it wouldn't help him to have a veteran WR to give him some tips on the pro game.

dr.jake
04-08-2010, 01:46 AM
is there another precedent set for some kid missing the entire season due to non injury "issues" and still being selected top 15 overall? if so please the provide the who and whys and how it all turned out. i'm just curious.

TedSlimmJr
04-08-2010, 01:54 AM
is there another precedent set for some kid missing the entire season due to non injury "issues" and still being selected top 15 overall? if so please the provide the who and whys and how it all turned out. i'm just curious.


Well sure there is.....Mike Williams....I believe he went #10 or #11 overall to the Detroit Lions after sitting out the season prior due to declaring himself eligible for the draft the year before.....when he was denied the right to enter the draft that year....he couldn't return to USC because he had already hired an agent...

Saying it didn't turn out well for him is an understatement..

dr.jake
04-08-2010, 03:01 AM
mike williams and mo clarrett 2004....does ring a bell.

hooshoops
04-08-2010, 03:03 AM
dez bryant has more talent and upside in his big toe than mike williams ever had...

Phin-Phan 66
04-08-2010, 03:18 AM
dez bryant has more talent and upside in his big toe than mike williams ever had...

Byant can cut off his big toe and outperform that Mike Williams

Playmaker76
04-08-2010, 03:21 AM
The Main Reasons players are busts:

1. Their talent is overrated
2. They don't love football
3. They don't respect coaches and are not coachable
4. They have a drug problem (Charles Rogers)
5. They are soft (mentally or physically) and can't transition from a boys league to a man's league.

How this applies to Bryant
1. Out of the many scouting reports I have read not one questions the talent. (Very rare for a receiver scouting report.)

2. Bryant was quoted as saying " I love football so much that without football I would die."

3. Even if he did have a short attention span it does not mean he won't respect the coaches and be coachable. He showed improvement in technique from his freshman to sophomore year.

4. As far as anyone knows he has not had a drug problem. (if he tested positive for anything at the combine I would immediately cross him off my list).

5. The guy is built like a Greek god and loves to take on contact. I also like how he defends himself when people talk crap about him. He has a "won't back down from anyone" attitude.

If you want to pass on Dez I'm ok with that as long as the reason is you think there is a better player available but to say you don't want to take him because you think he will be a bust you need to show me something more than taking cheap shots at him.

dr.jake
04-08-2010, 03:35 AM
mike williams had an outstanding college career at USC. he was universally projected as a top ten (or 5 ) pick. clarett showed top ten talent early and then parlayed himself into a distant reach in the third round. anyone here who claims DEZ brings zero red flags is delusional. same goes for mike williams (syr). both kids can't seem to follow fairly simple rules of conduct.

Playmaker76
04-08-2010, 03:50 AM
mike williams had an outstanding college career at USC. he was universally projected as a top ten (or 5 ) pick. clarett showed top ten talent early and then parlayed himself into a distant reach in the third round. anyone here who claims DEZ brings zero red flags is delusional. same goes for mike williams (syr). both kids can't seem to follow fairly simple rules of conduct.

Mike Williams busted because he had trouble with creating separation. He did not have any suddenness or feel for creating separation. That was his downfall in the NFL. Some scouting reports stated that before the draft but most people assumed he would get better at it at the next level. Bryant's strength is his nautural ability to create separation.

As far as Clarett he was a druggie who committed a felony. Please don't put Bryant in that class.

Next............

No1Phinatic
04-08-2010, 04:03 AM
That is a scary write-up indeed. They needed to go after a vet (Boldin) first.

dr.jake
04-08-2010, 04:20 AM
google the 2 YEAR stats between mike williams at USC (who by the by had many,many more weapons than okie st.) and dez bryant and tell me who had the better college career.
MW: recpts (81/95), yds (1265/1314),yds.rcpt.(16/14) tds (14/16)
DB: recpts (43/87).yds (622/1480), yds.rcpt.(15/17) tds (6/19)

now make your separation argument. he's good granted. but a headcase nonetheless.

Playmaker76
04-08-2010, 04:41 AM
google the 2 YEAR stats between mike williams at USC (who by the by had many,many more weapons than okie st.) and dez bryant and tell me who had the better college career.
MW: recpts (81/95), yds (1265/1314),yds.rcpt.(16/14) tds (14/16)
DB: recpts (43/87).yds (622/1480), yds.rcpt.(15/17) tds (6/19)

now make your separation argument. he's good granted. but a headcase nonetheless.

What the heck do college stats have to do with evaluating a player's ability to have suddenness in his routes (the most important criteria NFL scouts evaluate) to create separation? When I talk about separation I am referimg to the ability to separate from the defender. That is what makes Bryant different from Williams. Bryant's strength is his ability to separate from the defender.

If you look at Mike Williams highlights when he was at USC you will see he had no quick change of direction ability. He was 6'5 so he just relied on bullying kids for the ball. Unfortunately that doesn't work at the next level.

Like I said, if you can prove Dez will be a bust because of one of the 5 reasons that players are busts which I stated before then maybe you can convince me. And if you want to state what a blogger or author says without a quote from the source don't waste my time. In other words please don't give me rumors or hearsay.

dr.jake
04-08-2010, 04:45 AM
"What the heck do college stats have to do with evaluating a player's ability..."
nuff said.

finfan54
04-08-2010, 04:47 AM
I just dont see the desire from this guy off the field. That is where diva receiva's have probs.

His biggest prob: He lied to the NCAA

Playmaker76
04-08-2010, 04:52 AM
"What the heck do college stats have to do with evaluating a player's ability..."
nuff said.

In case you suffer from a short attention span (like Dez supossedly) and you didn't bother to read the rest of the sentence, I was making an arguement that a players college stats are not useful in projecting how a player will be able to separate from defenders at the next level.

Geez....SMH

Playmaker76
04-08-2010, 05:02 AM
I just dont see the desire from this guy off the field. That is where diva receiva's have probs.

His biggest prob: He lied to the NCAA

Lying is a legit concern. In my book its just a minor one. I just wouldn't put it in the same category as committing a crime, testing positive for drugs, quitting the team, or rebelling against coaches.

We have all lied in our lives at one point or another, sometimes even to a superior at work. If you disagree you are full of it.

finfan54
04-08-2010, 05:26 AM
Lying is a legit concern. In my book its just a minor one. I just wouldn't put it in the same category as committing a crime, testing positive for drugs, quitting the team, or rebelling against coaches.

We have all lied in our lives at one point or another, sometimes even to a superior at work. If you disagree you are full of it.

he didnt lie to his girlfriend or parents, but he lied to the ultimate authority in sports cus he thought he could get away with it.

That is a character issue in my book.

but regardless he is the top talent. I just wont argue with many who want him but I would bet all tea in china that we will not draft him.

We will get Berry, Thomas, Williams DT, or Derrick Morgan IMO. Its going to be a defensive draft with some offense sprinkled in here and there particulary late. There are good WR's who will go late IMO.

We do not need a legit #1 WR. That notion is overblown. The NO Saints do not have a #1. They have a bunch of guys who get open and a QB who gets it to them.

Playmaker76
04-08-2010, 05:36 AM
The only way we can get away with not having a #1 receiver is by bringing in multiple role players that can give us chunk yards (like the Saints have). If we do that then I have no problem with passing up on Dez. Unfortunately I don't see how we will find those players in the draft. Maybe Benn or Tate in the second I guess.

finfan54
04-08-2010, 05:43 AM
The only way we can get away with not having a #1 receiver is by bringing in multiple role players that can give us chunk yards (like the Saints have). If we do that then I have no problem with passing up on Dez. Unfortunately I don't see how we will find those players in the draft. Maybe Benn or Tate in the second I guess.

there are many WR's in this draft with prototypical size and speed and agility. They just either have not produced enough or were in a system or whatever. But they are there. All you have to do is look. They are there.

We got Brian friggin Hartline and everyone on here had a cow and made fun of his party photos with his girl. Dude can play and get seperation and make big plays and go over middle and yadda yadda yadda. Thats all we need. Another Brian Hartline who gets open and has speed to get open. Then suddenly, Camarillo, Hartline, and Bess suddenly have huge games. We are already seeing it. Our problem is defense. It needs to be transformed. It will be done, on BP's earth, as it is in his world.

Playmaker76
04-08-2010, 05:53 AM
So, considering your desired first four picks we will get our offensive playmakers in the 6th and 7th rounds. :)

hooshoops
04-08-2010, 06:40 AM
"we don't need a #1 wr"

give me a break...we had to go the wildcat so much to try and create chunk yardage plays cause we for darn sure couldn't get chunk yards in our base offense with our pass receivers...

ireland himself has even admitted that we need "chunk yards on offense"

baseballcb95
04-08-2010, 07:07 AM
"What the heck do college stats have to do with evaluating a player's ability..."
nuff said.

please get a clue before posting. According to this, tebow is the number one overall pick and JPP should be a mid to late 7th rounder. Think of all the colleges, think of all the players, and think of how many of them make it to the next level, about 300 a year. Stats dont mean anything, hell, why dont we just go with danario alexander in round 1! he had the best WR stats in the NCAA! gimme a break.

tcolli17
04-08-2010, 11:04 AM
The Main Reasons players are busts:

1. Their talent is overrated
2. They don't love football
3. They don't respect coaches and are not coachable
4. They have a drug problem (Charles Rogers)
5. They are soft (mentally or physically) and can't transition from a boys league to a man's league.


Now lets apply this to Ginn.
1. Was overrated by Cameron. Was fast, that's it. He wasn't a dominant receiver in college, he was just quick enough to get away from people when he caught the ball.
2. IMO he doesn't love football. Football is about beating the **** out of the other team, grinding all the yards out of a play that you can. Not running out of bounds and "oops I fell down".
3. No problem here.
4. "
5. Ginn is soft (mentally and physically) and can't transition from a boys league to a man's league.

So in summary, I hope we draft Dez. Great criteria though, wish Cameron would of had it.

ckparrothead
04-08-2010, 06:09 PM
I think unfortunately that this front office has focused on the front lines and talked about it so much, that the fanbase has no appreciation for when to STOP focusing on the front lines and fill out the rest of the roster.

Miami didn't lose that many games because they couldn't run the ball or stop the run. They lost many, many more games because they couldn't pass the ball or stop the pass.

krosston
04-08-2010, 06:46 PM
Bottom line is that the FO has to decide if the cost-risk ratio is worth picking Bryant. Can they take the risk of the #12 pick in the first round bombing out? If this was a 2nd round choice, I would go for it, but first round? The organization is playing with fire if they take this kind of risk and it doesn't work out. Is the difference between Bryant and other receivers like Tate, Benn, or Thomas so substantial that it is worth the risk? Glad I'm not making that decision.