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View Full Version : Question for those that want Dez Bryant.



datruth55
04-13-2010, 08:57 PM
This is something I've been throwing around in my head for the last few weeks. Would adding a TE in the mold of a Tony Gonzalez, Antonio Gates, Jason Witten make our offense as dynamic or more dynamic than adding a Dez Bryant, Rejus Benn, Demaryius Thomas type WR?

Looking for opinions because I think a TE you can split out wide as a receiver or lineup inside to go against linebackers would create a lot of mismatches and make the offense as dynamic, or more so, than adding a big time WR. Plus you can get a TE in the 4th round, as deep as this class is, and use the first 3 rounds to address the defense at FS, NT and OLB (not necessarily in that order).

hooshoops
04-13-2010, 09:01 PM
there's not a te in this draft who has the same level talent as dez bryant...there's darn good talent at te in this draft but not you better take me in the top 12 to get me like talent...

ideally...it would be nice to have a real pass receiving threat te and a dez bryant...but that would be just greedy...lol especially the way this front office has avoided playmakers to date...

dez bryant is top 5 talent...the top te probably falls in the 20's somewhere imo...if there was a top 5 like talent at te then by all means we should be considering him at #12...but there's not

datruth55
04-13-2010, 09:06 PM
there's not a te in this draft who has the same level talent as dez bryant...there's darn good talent at te in this draft but not you better take me in the top 12 to get me like talent...

ideally...it would be nice to have a real pass receiving threat te and a dez bryant...but that would be just greedy...lol

dez bryant is top 5 talent...the top te probably falls in the 20's somewhere imo...if there was a top 5 like talent at te then by all means we should be considering him at #12...but there's not
It's not a question of whether the top TE falls in the top 10 or 20, it's a question of getting a TE that can create mismatches and cause problems for opposing defenses. There are TEs in this class that can do that. Dynamic TE or dynamic WR...which one creates more problems for defenses. I know for us last year it was the TE.

Lets say we draft Bryant and he's a bust....what then? We're stuck with him and have to pay him #12 money. Let's say we draft a TE and he's not the pass catcher/threat we thought he was...he turns into a blocking TE and we're only paying him 4th round money.

ckparrothead
04-13-2010, 09:13 PM
A pass catching TE would make a very big impact on this team, absolutely. In this defense, the #2 TE was basically as much a starter as, for instance, Kendall Langford. I think right now there's little chance that Jermaine Gresham makes it to #43 and he doesn't have the same talent as Dez Bryant so he should not be the pick at #12. Gronkowski actually might make it to #43 but if he does there's a reason, his back is an issue to a lot of teams and so if you're going to take him you'd better be certain that those other teams are mistaken about his back issues.

I think that Dennis Pitta could have an immediate and very, very positive impact on this draft at Tight End.

hooshoops
04-13-2010, 09:15 PM
It's not a question of whether the top TE falls in the top 10 or 20, it's a question of getting a TE that can create mismatches and cause problems for opposing defenses. There are TEs in this class that can do that. Dynamic TE or dynamic WR...which one creates more problems for defenses. I know for us last year it was the TE.

Lets say we draft Bryant and he's a bust....what then? We're stuck with him and have to pay him #12 money. Let's say we draft a TE and he's not the pass catcher/threat we thought he was...he turns into a blocking TE and we're only paying him 4th round money.

if you're trying to minimize risk any of these players in consideration at pick #12 could be bust...at least dez bryant isn't being asked to make a complete position change like these college de's to olbs are...pure projection...

point blank i'[m not afraid to take a risk if the talent justifies it and dez bryants talent absolutely does...

as for the te's if we can't get a dez bryant or a wr by the way the draft plays out that can help us immediately then by all means get a playmaking te...

we need weapons on offense...pass catching vertical threats...seam players etc...

datruth55
04-13-2010, 09:27 PM
Not trying to minimize the risk hoops. Two positions that I think Parcells has been excellent at evaluating is OLB and NT. He's hit far more than he's missed so I'm not nearly as concerned with those positions as I am with WR or FS. Every pick has some risk to it.

I'm just trying to say we can get an impact player on offense without it being the #12 pick.

ckparrothead
04-13-2010, 09:29 PM
I tell you what if Miami could walk away from this draft with Dez Bryant at WR in the 1st round, Thaddeus Gibson at OLB in the 2nd round, Dennis Pitta at TE in the 3rd round, Arthur Jones in the 4th round and A.J. Edds or Austin Spitler in the 6th round...I would probably pass out from pure joy.

SR 7
04-13-2010, 10:02 PM
I tell you what if Miami could walk away from this draft with Dez Bryant at WR in the 1st round, Thaddeus Gibson at OLB in the 2nd round, Dennis Pitta at TE in the 3rd round, Arthur Jones in the 4th round and A.J. Edds or Austin Spitler in the 6th round...I would probably pass out from pure joy.

you see Pitta lasting to our 3rd? I honestly don't.

But I do agree, if those first 3 happen than I jump with joy!

DKphin
04-13-2010, 11:09 PM
A pass catching TE would make a very big impact on this team, absolutely. In this defense, the #2 TE was basically as much a starter as, for instance, Kendall Langford. I think right now there's little chance that Jermaine Gresham makes it to #43 and he doesn't have the same talent as Dez Bryant so he should not be the pick at #12. Gronkowski actually might make it to #43 but if he does there's a reason, his back is an issue to a lot of teams and so if you're going to take him you'd better be certain that those other teams are mistaken about his back issues.

I think that Dennis Pitta could have an immediate and very, very positive impact on this draft at Tight End.
I have not given up on Fasano yet. Wasn't he hurt last year? I think he will be more productive this season.

PhinsTD
04-13-2010, 11:22 PM
CK, who do like best of Sapp, Worilds, Gibson? Gibson is a little risky to me, but Worilds has the shoulder, and Sapp the knee.

CW_McGraw
04-13-2010, 11:26 PM
I'm firmly against drafting Dez with #12 pick, but if there were a Jeremy Shockey caliber prospect available, I'd be cool with drafting him. David Martin was the unsung hero of our offense in 08 and his loss was definitely felt. I still think TE is a bigger hole than WR. At least at WR we have a few promising young guys in Bess and Hartline. At TE we've got Fasano who's basically only a blocker and two camp bodies in Haynos and Sperry. A Jimmy Graham, Dennis Pitta, or even Dorin Dickerson would give us that match up nightmare at TE that our offense lacked last year.

PhinsTD
04-13-2010, 11:27 PM
DK, our #2 TE is what Pitta would be, and that plays as many plays as many starters. He needs to threaten the seam and scare a defense with speed. We didn't have that last year without Martin.

datruth55
04-13-2010, 11:51 PM
DK, our #2 TE is what Pitta would be, and that plays as many plays as many starters. He needs to threaten the seam and scare a defense with speed. We didn't have that last year without Martin.
With Martin our pass offense was much better so you can imagine what a guy like Pitta would do to opposing defenses. Martin was a WR in college as well and had to learn how to block, Pitta would come in ready to go...and without the injury history of Martin.

hooshoops
04-13-2010, 11:56 PM
Not trying to minimize the risk hoops. Two positions that I think Parcells has been excellent at evaluating is OLB and NT. He's hit far more than he's missed so I'm not nearly as concerned with those positions as I am with WR or FS. Every pick has some risk to it.

I'm just trying to say we can get an impact player on offense without it being the #12 pick.

who said we couldn't???

we just can't get a dez bryant like talent with mid to late round picks...

datruth55
04-14-2010, 12:00 AM
who said we couldn't???

we just can't get a dez bryant like talent with mid to late round picks...
But we can get a player that will have as big of an impact.

hooshoops
04-14-2010, 12:02 AM
But we can get a player that will have as big of an impact.

i don't think so...but that's just me

and i wear dez bryant pajamas every night :lol:

datruth55
04-14-2010, 12:07 AM
i don't think so...but that's just me

and i wear dez bryant pajamas every night :lol:
lol, I know. You'd think he went to UVA or something.

hooshoops
04-14-2010, 12:10 AM
lol, I know. You'd think he went to UVA or something.

nah cause all uva puts out under groh at least is overrated overdrafted talent...dez doesn't fall in that category

datruth55
04-14-2010, 12:13 AM
nah cause all uva puts out under groh at least is overrated overdrafted talent...dez doesn't fall in that category
You're gonna miss Groh...:)

hooshoops
04-14-2010, 12:17 AM
next in that long line...chris cook

never did anything on tape at uva to warrant 2nd round consideration imo...but lit up the combine and played solid press man at that size at the senior bowl and here he comes up the boards...

datruth55
04-14-2010, 12:25 AM
next in that long line...chris cook

never did anything on tape at uva to warrant 2nd round consideration imo...but lit up his workouts and played solid press man at that size at the senior bowl and here he comes up the boards...
I read that Cook didn't show much desire or love of football at his pro day. After I read that I wasn't interested in him. He was starting to pique my interest until then though.

Groh has had a decent list of players make it to the NFL.

qmar
04-14-2010, 12:29 AM
who said we couldn't???

we just can't get a dez bryant like talent with mid to late round picks...

Had their been a no-brainer WR in the 2006 draft, I'm sure team forums would have been saying the same thing that year as well. Sure enough Round 4 comes around and the Denver Broncos select Brandon Marshall.

Looking back at the 2006 draft, it's amazing how this team did not turn into a perrenial Super Bowl contender. They must have had some bad drafts in the years prior or bad drafts in 2007 and 2008, b/c in '06, not only did they not miss, but they hit it big on alot of picks.

Rd.1 - Jay Cutler
Rd.2 - Tony Scheffler
Rd.3 - Didn't have a pick
Rd.4 - Elvis Dumervil
Rd.4 - Marshall

Also difficult to look at the 2006 draft and see that we took Jason Allen 16th overall while the Colts waited until pick 207 (6th round) to draft Antoine Bethea. Ugh.

hooshoops
04-14-2010, 12:31 AM
I read that Cook didn't show much desire or love of football at his pro day. After I read that I wasn't interested in him. He was starting to pique my interest until then though.

Groh has had a decent list of players make it to the NFL.

i read that cook was sick at his pro day so i think he was given a pass...

groh has put out some pros...and some very high picks...but tell me who he's brought out that's turned into a big time player???

dbrick is solid but not great by any means...chris long solid but imo underachieved last year

nothing that you're like man that guys a stud...not that i can think of

hooshoops
04-14-2010, 12:32 AM
Had their been a no-brainer WR in the 2006 draft, I'm sure team forums would have been saying the same thing that year as well. Sure enough Round 4 comes around and the Denver Broncos select Brandon Marshall.

Looking back at the 2006 draft, it's amazing how this team did not turn into a perrenial Super Bowl contender. They must have had some bad drafts in the years prior or bad drafts in 2007 and 2008, b/c in '06, not only did they not miss, but they hit it big on alot of picks.

Rd.1 - Jay Cutler
Rd.2 - Tony Scheffler
Rd.3 - Didn't have a pick
Rd.4 - Elvis Dumervil
Rd.4 - Marshall

Also difficult to look at the 2006 draft and see that we took Jason Allen 16th overall while the Colts waited until pick 207 (6th round) to draft Antoine Bethea. Ugh.

true...but for every brandon marshall there's a ton of guys who never do squat in the pros...let alone become #1 wrs

datruth55
04-14-2010, 12:39 AM
i read that cook was sick at his pro day so i think he was given a pass...

groh has put out some pros...and some very high picks...but tell me who he's brought out that's turned into a big time player???

dbrick is solid but not great by any means...chris long solid but imo underachieved last year

nothing that you're like man that guys a stud...not that i can think of
Yeah you're right there. No impact players.

qmar
04-14-2010, 12:45 AM
Thought you all would like to throw up a little more when looking at the 2007 draft.

We take Ginn with the 9th pick overall

While Jacksonville waits until pick 79 (3rd round) to select Mike Sims-Walker

The Cardinals wait utnil pick 142 (5th round) to select Steve Breaston

It is truly amazing how much Wanstedt, Saban, and Cameron set this franchise back. All three coachs will forever be remembered by their AWFUL drafts.

Eddie Moore?
Jason Allen?
Ted Ginn?

Cmon man.

SQuinn17
04-14-2010, 12:48 AM
Better yet, question for those who don't want Dez Bryant: What are you thinking!?!?!?!?

CW_McGraw
04-14-2010, 01:02 AM
Better yet, question for those who don't want Dez Bryant: What are you thinking!?!?!?!?

Our defense was as bad as the Lions'. Given that we lost Ronnie and Pennington, our offense was great.

Better question for the people that want Bryant: Did you watch the Dolphins last year at all?!?!?! Did you not see how god awful the defense was or are you simply ignoring obvious facts that become apparent to any person who watched the Miami Dolphins play? Did you see how Mark Sanchez played his best games of the year against us? It was obvious to anyone with eyes and a functioning brain that our biggest problems last year were on defense.

Why would you want a WR with character concerns who played against the worst defenses in major college football hasn't played football in a year?

TXFinFan
04-14-2010, 01:43 AM
Our defense was as bad as the Lions'. Given that we lost Ronnie and Pennington, our offense was great.

Better question for the people that want Bryant: Did you watch the Dolphins last year at all?!?!?! Did you not see how god awful the defense was or are you simply ignoring obvious facts that become apparent to any person who watched the Miami Dolphins play? Did you see how Mark Sanchez played his best games of the year against us? It was obvious to anyone with eyes and a functioning brain that our biggest problems last year were on defense.

Why would you want a WR with character concerns who played against the worst defenses in major college football hasn't played football in a year?

So, you don't think drafting the best WR in the draft & then going defense for the rest of the draft will help us? Aside from Eric Berry there isn't a single defensive player in the entire draft that will provide the kind of instant impact that adding Dez Bryant will.

Passing up rare talent to fill a need is a quick way to failure in the NFL.

hooshoops
04-14-2010, 01:45 AM
Our defense was as bad as the Lions'. Given that we lost Ronnie and Pennington, our offense was great.

Better question for the people that want Bryant: Did you watch the Dolphins last year at all?!?!?! Did you not see how god awful the defense was or are you simply ignoring obvious facts that become apparent to any person who watched the Miami Dolphins play? Did you see how Mark Sanchez played his best games of the year against us? It was obvious to anyone with eyes and a functioning brain that our biggest problems last year were on defense.

Why would you want a WR with character concerns who played against the worst defenses in major college football hasn't played football in a year?

i want the top talent with pick #12...whether it be on offense or defense...dez bryant is top 5 talent

he's probably the only top 5 talent that has a chance of making it to our pick...

no one ever said anything about not fixing the defense with the rest of the draft...

i'm not taking a lower rated player at another position of need just to fill a spot...i want the best talent available at that pick...

and no matter what anyone else feels like saying here a LEGIT playmaking wr is a DEFINITE need...just as much of a need as a olb, a fs, etc...

hooshoops
04-14-2010, 01:46 AM
So, you don't think drafting the best WR in the draft & then going defense for the rest of the draft will help us? Aside from Eric Berry there isn't a single defensive player in the entire draft that will provide the kind of instant impact that adding Dez Bryant will.

Passing up rare talent to fill a need is a quick way to failure in the NFL.

i don't know if it's actually a quick way to failure...but its a quick way to a roster full of mediocre talent and mediocre results...

TXFinFan
04-14-2010, 01:49 AM
i don't know if it's actually a quick way to failure...but its a quick way to a roster full of mediocre talent and mediocre results...

True, but to me, mediocre results are failure. I want a championship in my lifetime. :up:

hooshoops
04-14-2010, 01:51 AM
True, but to me, mediocre results are failure. I want a championship in my lifetime. :up:

me too...i don't settle for anything...

CW_McGraw
04-14-2010, 02:12 AM
Passing up rare talent to fill a need is a quick way to failure in the NFL.

But is Dez Bryant honestly a rare talent? You guys make it sound like he's Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss, or Larry Fitzgerald. He isn't a freak of nature here or anything. He's just a 6'2'' WR with pretty mediocre timed speed who destroyed the weakest defenses in major college football for one season and hasn't played football since. I don't buy into the idea that he's a can't miss prospect. I'm not seeing how getting Dez Bryant instantly makes our passing game great. And I haven't even touched on his character concerns.

hooshoops
04-14-2010, 02:13 AM
he's a very rare talent to me...yes indeed

datruth55
04-14-2010, 04:06 AM
he's a very rare talent to me...yes indeed
On tape Dez Bryant looks great but then I go to the draft history and I'm trying to find a WR from the Big 12 that's done anything in the NFL because I still think the Big 12 defenses suck for the most part (although I think Nebraska was pretty darn good last year).

Here's what I got (not counting 2009 since it's too early to tell on Crabtree but I think he'll be good):

2008
Malcolm Kelly (Oklahoma) #51
Limas Sweed (Texas) #53
Will Franklin (Missouri) #105
Marcus Henry (Kansas) #171

2007
Yamon Figures (Kansas State) #74
Joel Filani (Texas Tech) #188

2006
Travis Wilson (Oklahoma) #78
Brad Smith (Missouri) #103 - was a QB
Jeremy Bloom (Colorado) #147
Reggie McNeal (Texas A&M) #193 - I think he was a QB as well

2005
Mark Clayton (Oklahoma) #22
Mark Bradley (Oklahoma) #39
Terrence Murphy (Texas A&M) #58
Brandon Jones (Oklahoma) #96

I'll stop there. Out of all those Big 12 receivers Mark Clayton is the best and he had a good rookie season and has gone downhill fast since then. That type of history worries me.

hooshoops
04-14-2010, 04:11 AM
damn truth...dez bryant is way more talented and nfl impact looking than ANY of those wrs were in college...

any of them...i understand that big 12 conference scares you cause of those soft pass d's and it probably should with a lot of guys...but not dez bryant...not to me...

wasn't it you and i on another forum that during games last year would comment about how much this offense is STARVING/BEGGING for a playmaker at wr??? and now we got a chance to get one and you're getting cold feet...

screw that...i can't watch 3 yard pass receptions any longer...

hooshoops
04-14-2010, 04:20 AM
i'll tell you a wr out of that conference that's gonna suck the big one in the pros...danario alexander...if he even makes a teams 53 man roster...

datruth55
04-14-2010, 04:23 AM
damn truth...dez bryant is way more talented and nfl impact looking than ANY of those wrs were in college...

any of them...i understand that big 12 conference scares you cause of those soft pass d's and it probably should with a lot of guys...but not dez bryant...not to me...

wasn't it you and i on another forum that during games last year would comment about how much this offense is STARVING/BEGGING for a playmaker at wr??? and now we got a chance to get one and you're getting cold feet...

screw that...i can't watch 3 yard pass receptions any longer...
How many times did we say we needed a big WR before the Panthers game? During the game? lol.

I'm not getting cold feet, I'm playing devils advocate. I'm trying to look at this draft from all sides. I just don't want us to miss on a prospect, we can't afford another Ted Ginn or Jason Allen with our first pick. I know Dez Bryant isn't one of those guys although Jason Allen, on paper, looked like a good prospect he just never picked up the game mentally.

I'd be alright if we got Dez, certainly optimistic he'd be the answer we're looking for at WR. I'd much rather have Eric Berry but I don't think he'll fall to us.

hooshoops
04-14-2010, 04:26 AM
devils advocate my ***...you're raining on my freaking parade... :lol:

TedSlimmJr
04-14-2010, 04:29 AM
Indiana and Wisconsin are in the Big-10....:lol:

Carry on fellas....

BillParFan
04-15-2010, 09:14 PM
i don't think so...but that's just me

and i wear dez bryant pajamas every night :lol:

I think you might want to trade those PJs for a Brandon Marshall pair!:lol: