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View Full Version : Santonio Holmes Talking Smack!!



KippyIA1354
07-05-2010, 12:25 AM
I was watching the West Palm Beach sports extra and they interviewed Santonio Holmes at someones football camp. The reporter asked him a question about the Miami Dolphins. Holmes went on a rant how he's never liked the Dolphins even though he grew up in the Miami area,(Pahokee,I think)and how he's looking forward to facing them twice this year!!! I obviously have no link to this story but it fired me up a tad!! Even though He won't play in their first meeting on Sunday night! I'd like to see one of our DB's Or LB's lay this turd out!!!

MiZFiT
07-05-2010, 12:38 AM
Who is Santonio Holmes?

cafinfan408
07-05-2010, 01:04 AM
Who is Santonio Holmes?
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2010/07/holmescatch-1.jpg

this guy..
You know Super Bowl MVP.
He is a jackass but his talent should be unquestioned

NHPhinRida
07-05-2010, 01:11 AM
oh well opinions are like uhumm everyone has one lol hes allowed to have his too bad hes gonna be on the losing end of this one but oh well at least hes gonna fit in well with the jets seems like they cant keep their mouths shut. we'll see when the time comes! lets go dolphins! work hard and and let the talking be done on the field im super excited for this season!!!

MiZFiT
07-05-2010, 01:18 AM
this guy..
You know Super Bowl MVP.
He is a jackass but his talent should be unquestioned


This guy?

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2010/07/sprbwl08-1.jpg

PhinsPhan11
07-05-2010, 01:29 AM
Too bad he'll be on the losing end of the games.

sinPHIN
07-05-2010, 01:55 AM
wow he took time off from beating women to talk smack thats cool

PhinsPhan11
07-05-2010, 02:03 AM
It is cool beating women probably takes a lot out of your day. Talking smack is easy. (LOL)

illscriptures
07-05-2010, 02:04 AM
I'm looking forward to Vontae Davis lighting his *** up

1 dol fan
07-05-2010, 02:06 AM
wow he took time off from beating women to talk smack thats cool
We can't really talk about that point with Merling on the team...

dolpns13
07-05-2010, 02:31 AM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2010/07/holmescatch-1.jpg

this guy..
You know Super Bowl MVP.
He is a jackass but his talent should be unquestioned

this is true, however Sanchez is no Rothelisburger (although ben is a jackass, his talent is far superior than Sanchez)

cafinfan408
07-05-2010, 02:35 AM
This guy?

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2010/07/sprbwl08-1.jpg

So you show a naked picture of the guy than a pic of him breaking Vontes tackle than his making a play while winning the SB MVP award?
Umm yes that guy

dolpns13
07-05-2010, 02:39 AM
This guy?

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif


Bro.. Why do you even have a picture like this?

cyberpaki
07-05-2010, 02:42 AM
how he's looking forward to facing them twice this year

I guess being a Super Bowl MVP and a decent level of talent still doesn't equal intellect.
I'm pretty sure he only gets to play us once this year due to suspension, not that I'm complaining or anything.

SebasMiamiFan
07-05-2010, 07:18 AM
Who cares? Let him talk.

emeraldfin
07-05-2010, 07:32 AM
Talk smack is about all he can do for the the Jets first four games this season.

Vaark
07-05-2010, 08:18 AM
sounds like he was high again when making those comments

(did he actually inquire if he could wear the number 420?)

enJeppesen
07-05-2010, 08:23 AM
We can't really talk about that point with Merling on the team...

Look, Holmes is a douche and womenbeater. As a person he is no good in my book, characterwise. He is perfectly entitled to not like the phins(we don't like him either) and, imo, Merling can talk about all the teams he doesnt like, either. It's when they speak out on matters where they themselves have erred and they don't seem like they have learned anything. Like Fat Albert for instance who just doesn't seem to get it

rev kev
07-05-2010, 09:08 AM
Holmes used to have a QB who get him the ball...

The Goat
07-05-2010, 10:32 AM
I was watching the West Palm Beach sports extra and they interviewed Santonio Holmes at someones football camp. The reporter asked him a question about the Miami Dolphins. Holmes went on a rant how he's never liked the Dolphins even though he grew up in the Miami area,(Pahokee,I think)and how he's looking forward to facing them twice this year!!! I obviously have no link to this story but it fired me up a tad!! Even though He won't play in their first meeting on Sunday night! I'd like to see one of our DB's Or LB's lay this turd out!!!

Not the brightest bulb on the tree. He won't be facing us twice this year, unless we meet in the playoffs.

LANGER72
07-05-2010, 11:19 AM
wow he took time off from beating women to talk smack thats cool


Love that avitar vid of Ronnie trucking the Raiders!

Joneildu
07-05-2010, 11:29 AM
He was probably too high to realize that he'd only be facing the Dolphins once this year.

Edit: Beaten :(

GoonBoss
07-05-2010, 11:47 AM
Meh. He's welcome to. Doesn't concern me at all.

MiZFiT
07-05-2010, 11:49 AM
Bro.. Why do you even have a picture like this?

Go to google images and type in "Santonio Holmes". Its kind of the first picture that shows up.

Nublar7
07-05-2010, 11:53 AM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2010/07/holmescatch-1.jpg

this guy..
You know Super Bowl MVP.
He is a jackass but his talent should be unquestioned
David Tyree also made a big time catch in a Super Bowl, where is he now?

Holmes talks about playing the Dolphins twice a year, but maybe he was to busy creating havoc on another plane to realize that he is SUSPENDED for the first game. He will play in the second game, but who knows if he will even be back with the Jets in 2011. His contract is up and the Jets will have a lot of players they need to re-sign including Revis who is demanding $20 million a year

MiZFiT
07-05-2010, 11:58 AM
David Tyree also made a big time catch in a Super Bowl, where is he now?

Holmes talks about playing the Dolphins twice a year, but maybe he was to busy creating havoc on another plane to realize that he is SUSPENDED for the first game. He will play in the second game, but who knows if he will even be back with the Jets in 2011. His contract is up and the Jets will have a lot of players they need to re-sign including Revis who is demanding $20 million a year

Not to mention he is probably the most forgettable Super Bowl MVP ever.

sharp
07-05-2010, 12:06 PM
Who cares? Let him talk.

Now thats a sig

xxdolfanxx
07-05-2010, 01:02 PM
He hasn't shown anything special other than the one super bowl catch... Its kinda pathetic that all people know him by is one catch that happened 2 years ago... that says a lot.

cyberpaki
07-05-2010, 01:12 PM
Funny how everyone cites Holmes' Super Bowl MVP distinction as extremely praise worthy, considering he wasn't even the best receiver on the field that day, in terms of statistics or play.

You are a somewhat smart crowd, it would be dumb to think that in today's game, positions outside of QB and WR can win MVP with any kind of regularity. Look at it this way, in the 90s, 3 RBs became Super Bowl MVP, since Terrell Davis last did it in 1998, not a single RB has held that honor.

If you were to count all the Super Bowl MVPs since SB 33, out of the 12 MVPs, 7 have been QBs, 3 WRs (when the QB has crappy stats), and 2 defensive players. If you were to take Desmond Howard out of the equation, who only won the award due to his KR/PR skills, a total of 3 WRs won The Super Bowl MVP Award in NFL history prior to Deion Branch, Hines Ward, and Santonio Holmes doing it relatively recently. Those three receivers were, Lynn Swann, Fred Biletnikoff, and Jerry Rice- all Pro Football Hall of Famers. I think a lot of people would agree with me that a QB or a WR can win MVP with a good game, whereas any other position player would have to have a career game (statistically of course, since every SB win is technically a career game) to even have a shot to try and take MVP.

Someone try and explain this to me, if there isn't a bias in favor of certain players and offensive positions, then why is it that Santonio Holmes (9 catches, 131 yards, 1 TD) wins MVP over his QB (21/30, 256 yards, 1 TD/1 INT), yet Peyton Manning (25/38, 247 yards, 1 TD/1 INT, 81.8 QB rating, 1 Fumble) win's Super Bowl MVP over Domnic Rhodes (21 carries, 113 yards, 1 TD, 0 Fumbles in addition to running the final 8 Colt Plays of the game), Joseph Addai (Super Bowl Record for a RB 10 catches for 66 yards, and 19 carries for 77 yards, for a total of 143 yards, 0 Fumbles) and Kelvin Haden (This one really irks me, 4 Tackles, solid job of shutting down his assignments, 1 int which he returned 56 yards for the final TD of the game to put his team up by 2 scores)?

There's no Anti-Jet or Anti-Santonio sentiment in my post (Though they still suck), just a simple observation.

utahphinsfan
07-05-2010, 01:23 PM
It is cool beating women probably takes a lot out of your day. Talking smack is easy. (LOL)

And you don't even have to take off your headphones to do it.

Jetsfan89
07-05-2010, 01:38 PM
Who is Santonio Holmes?

He's a guy with a SB ring and a SB MVP.

And he's the guy coming off a 1,248 yard 5 td season. He's not bad, you should really watch him play sometime. You will get to see him once this year.

Jetsfan89
07-05-2010, 01:40 PM
wow he took time off from beating women to talk smack thats cool

Oh like Brandon Marshall? Actually some reports state that Marshall actually threatened his GF with a lead pipe. WOW. There's a special place for guys like that on Revis Island.

MiZFiT
07-05-2010, 01:45 PM
He's a guy with a SB ring and a SB MVP.

And he's the guy coming off a 1,248 yard 5 td season. He's not bad, you should really watch him play sometime. You will get to see him once this year.

What about the 3 seasons before last, you know when he didnt record 1k yards. Santonio is an average reciever at best. Nothing special there. One catch and one season doesnt make the player. When he puts together 3 100 catch seasons or 3 1k+ yards seasons, then come talk.

cyberpaki
07-05-2010, 03:31 PM
Oh like Brandon Marshall? Actually some reports state that Marshall actually threatened his GF with a lead pipe. WOW. There's a special place for guys like that on Revis Island.

Yes, both receivers have been terrible off the field, and sure, Brandon Marshall has worse off the field issues.

Yet, one went for a mere 5th round pick from a team that has went out and signed every big name player they could get a hold of, and the other went for 2 second round picks from a regime that's historically treated their draft picks like gold. It is clear both our coaching staffs were aware of their newly acquired WRs value beforehand.

It would be dumb to deny that Marshall's off the field issues are worse than Holmes', almost as dumb as thinking that Holmes is actually the same caliber receiver as Brandon Marshall.

Dolfan984
07-05-2010, 06:28 PM
He's a guy with a SB ring and a SB MVP.

And he's the guy coming off a 1,248 yard 5 td season. He's not bad, you should really watch him play sometime. You will get to see him once this year.

Hope you understand that Sanchez isn't going to give Holmes 10 seconds to get open like Big Ben did. Good luck with that.

Nublar7
07-05-2010, 06:33 PM
He's a guy with a SB ring and a SB MVP.

And he's the guy coming off a 1,248 yard 5 td season. He's not bad, you should really watch him play sometime. You will get to see him once this year.

He also had a good quarterback to throw him the ball the past few years. He won't have that in New York.

KlausC
07-05-2010, 06:50 PM
He hasn't shown anything special other than the one super bowl catch... Its kinda pathetic that all people know him by is one catch that happened 2 years ago... that says a lot.

This is a silly post. Santonio is a legit playmaker. He's obviously not as good as Marshall, but he's probably a top 15-20 NFL WR.

nyjunc
07-06-2010, 04:32 PM
wow he took time off from beating women to talk smack thats cool


It is cool beating women probably takes a lot out of your day. Talking smack is easy. (LOL)

You guys crack me up. It's okn to beat women(pregannt no less) if you are a dolphin I guess.

How about we are all disgusted that these guys get away w/ garbage like that? whether they are Jets, dolphins or whoever.


I'm looking forward to Vontae Davis lighting his *** up

:lol:


this is true, however Sanchez is no Rothelisburger (although ben is a jackass, his talent is far superior than Sanchez)

so you hope. They do have one similar stat- both led their teams to AFC Title game apps as rookies. Let's hope Mark can take that next step like Ben did in year 2.


David Tyree also made a big time catch in a Super Bowl, where is he now?

Holmes talks about playing the Dolphins twice a year, but maybe he was to busy creating havoc on another plane to realize that he is SUSPENDED for the first game. He will play in the second game, but who knows if he will even be back with the Jets in 2011. His contract is up and the Jets will have a lot of players they need to re-sign including Revis who is demanding $20 million a year

Does Tyree average 4 more yards per rec than the great Brandon Marshall?


Not to mention he is probably the most forgettable Super Bowl MVP ever.

yeah, he only made one of the most spectacular catches in SB history to win one of the most exciting SBs ever but that will be forgotten.:lol:


He hasn't shown anything special other than the one super bowl catch... Its kinda pathetic that all people know him by is one catch that happened 2 years ago... that says a lot.

He had 1200 yds last year and averaged 16 yards per rec. He's pretty good.

cyberpaki
07-06-2010, 04:52 PM
He had 1200 yds last year and averaged 16 yards per rec. He's pretty good.

I agree with most of your points man, there's no way that Holmes was as big a distraction to the Steelers as Marshall was with the Broncos.

With that said though, do you think that his numbers from last year are an indicator of what he will do this year?
Look at Antonio Bryant from two years ago, very Santonio Holmes like numbers for his entire career, and two years ago he went for 83 receptions, 1,248 yards and 7 TD (15 ypc) versus Holmes' 79 receptions, 1,248 yards and 5 TDs (15.8 ypc) from last year.

While I do think Santonio Holmes will work out well for your team (I think he may even manage 800 yards or so in the 12 games he plays), I am skeptical as to how his production will stack up to his Pittsburgh days, and if I were to look at it objectively, I can't see Holmes repeating his results from last year, just like I can't see Marshall continuing his streak of 100+ catches.

As for the extra 4 ypc career average, even if I weren't a Dolphin fan, I would probably rather take the extra 1.25 TDs per year, and I think the 23 extra catches per season (despite the fact that Holmes has 4 more career starts) offsets the 4 yards as well.

And the Playoff/Super Bowl experience... yeah, that's all your guy.

MiZFiT
07-06-2010, 04:53 PM
He had 1200 yds last year and averaged 16 yards per rec. He's pretty good.

Once he puts up consistent numbers, then ill call him good. Last year was his only good year. The seasons before last were average.

Tunaphish429
07-06-2010, 04:59 PM
Holmes is a very good player.. He is damn good route runner and is pretty much fearless after the catch

The Jets got him for pratically nothing..

That being said he is one slip up away from being out of the league...

I do agree he benefited from Raplisburger running around forever...

Covering Him, Cotch and Edwards as well as Dustin Keller is not going to be easy...

But having them on the field all at once means the Jets cant run the max protect formations that they did and Sanches wont have as nearly as much time as he did last year...

Jets got rid of Faneca who was a liabiity as a pass blocker tho..We will see if it equals out

nyjunc
07-06-2010, 05:08 PM
I agree with most of your points man, there's no way that Holmes was as big a distraction to the Steelers as Marshall was with the Broncos.

With that said though, do you think that his numbers from last year are an indicator of what he will do this year?
Look at Antonio Bryant from two years ago, very Santonio Holmes like numbers for his entire career, and two years ago he went for 83 receptions, 1,248 yards and 7 TD (15 ypc) versus Holmes' 79 receptions, 1,248 yards and 5 TDs (15.8 ypc) from last year.

While I do think Santonio Holmes will work out well for your team (I think he may even manage 800 yards or so in the 12 games he plays), I am skeptical as to how his production will stack up to his Pittsburgh days, and if I were to look at it objectively, I can't see Holmes repeating his results from last year, just like I can't see Marshall continuing his streak of 100+ catches.

As for the extra 4 ypc career average, even if I weren't a Dolphin fan, I would probably rather take the extra 1.25 TDs per year, and I think the 23 extra catches per season (despite the fact that Holmes has 4 more career starts) offsets the 4 yards as well.

And the Playoff/Super Bowl experience... yeah, that's all your guy.

No I don't expect simialr #s b/c a)he's only playing a max of 12 reg season games and b)we have more weapons to throw to and a young QB.

Marshall only has 5 more TDs in his career on a team that averaged 533 pass attemtps a year while Holmes' team averaged 502.

Marshall is a a possession guy, Santonio can stretch the field. Do I expect Holmes to produce the way marshall does? No way but I expect he'll have a big impact on our O.


Once he puts up consistent numbers, then ill call him good. Last year was his only good year. The seasons before last were average.

His best yar came a year after he broke out w/ that SB MVP award so the trend is going in the right direction and in '06 if he played 16 instead of 13 games he has almost 1200 rec yds and 10 TDs based on his averages so he's proven he can play at a high level.


Holmes is a very good player.. He is damn good route runner and is pretty much fearless after the catch

The Jets got him for pratically nothing..

That being said he is one slip up away from being out of the league...

I do agree he benefited from Raplisburger running around forever...

Covering Him, Cotch and Edwards as well as Dustin Keller is not going to be easy...

But having them on the field all at once means the Jets cant run the max protect formations that they did and Sanches wont have as nearly as much time as he did last year...

Jets got rid of Faneca who was a liabiity as a pass blocker tho..We will see if it equals out

Holmes AND Marshall can be a slip up away from being out of the league depending on what they do. Let's not act like marshall is a choir boy.


Sanchez will have RBs that can catch out of the backfield, teams won't be able to blitz us as much b/c we can dump it to the backs or hit it big down the field w/ our playmakers.

We'll see what happens, on paper we both look really good but that doesn't always work out as we know. Hopefully we are battling for a div title and can meet up in January- that would be fun.

Jetsfan89
07-06-2010, 06:21 PM
He also had a good quarterback to throw him the ball the past few years. He won't have that in New York.

Oh ok......lol

Jetsfan89
07-06-2010, 06:24 PM
Yes, both receivers have been terrible off the field, and sure, Brandon Marshall has worse off the field issues.

Yet, one went for a mere 5th round pick from a team that has went out and signed every big name player they could get a hold of, and the other went for 2 second round picks from a regime that's historically treated their draft picks like gold. It is clear both our coaching staffs were aware of their newly acquired WRs value beforehand.

It would be dumb to deny that Marshall's off the field issues are worse than Holmes', almost as dumb as thinking that Holmes is actually the same caliber receiver as Brandon Marshall.

I agree with this. Im not arguing that Holmes is better then Marshall. Marshall is clearly better. But people acting like he is a nobody who isnt really that good is kind of stupid IMO. I think the guy has proven that he can play WR in the NFL and at a high level as well as in big games.

MiZFiT
07-06-2010, 06:25 PM
Oh ok......lol

Based off of last year's performance, doesnt look like Sanchez will be a great QB, does it?

Nublar7
07-06-2010, 06:32 PM
Oh ok......lol

Sometimes you just need to face the facts. Sanchez is not good, not even close.

cyberpaki
07-06-2010, 06:47 PM
Marshall only has 5 more TDs in his career on a team that averaged 533 pass attemtps a year while Holmes' team averaged 502.


Very true, 533 passes times 4 seasons equals 2008 total pass attempts, out of which Holmes snagged 235 balls (11.7 % of total pass attempts). That means if there would've been 21 more pass attempts per season for the Steelers, that's 84 balls over 4 seasons, based on his career average, Holmes would've caught a total of an additional 10 (9.8) balls over those 4 seasons combined.

Statistically speaking, that's one more TD for his entire career at best.

Also, I don't think you should be that quick to dismiss Marshall's edge as "only 5 more TDs", considering that Holmes has only gone over that number in a given season once, and the only season Marshall didn't go over 5 TDs was when he only started 1 game as a rookie.

KlausC
07-06-2010, 07:19 PM
Sometimes you just need to face the facts. Sanchez is not good, not even close.

He was the weakest link on the Jets last year but he was a rookie. He played very well for a rookie QB in the playoffs and showed a lot of good traits throughout the season. He's also reportedly been putting in serious time getting the mental part down in the offseason.

To pretend like there's no way he'll be better than last season is just as stupid as pretending he wasn't bad last season.

The Dolphins secondary is in REAL rough shape if rookies don't get better.

mrodriguez4096
07-06-2010, 09:10 PM
Not to mention he is probably the most forgettable Super Bowl MVP ever.

It's funny because, while he did well, when I think of superbowl mvp's I keep thinking of Desmond Howard. He turned out great..lol. Point is just because you were a superbowl mvp doesn't mean your an amazing player for the rest of your career and so far Holmes hasn't come close to being considered a top flight receiver, unless you ask a Jet's fan then he's top 15 or so.

nyjunc
07-07-2010, 08:23 AM
Very true, 533 passes times 4 seasons equals 2008 total pass attempts, out of which Holmes snagged 235 balls (11.7 % of total pass attempts). That means if there would've been 21 more pass attempts per season for the Steelers, that's 84 balls over 4 seasons, based on his career average, Holmes would've caught a total of an additional 10 (9.8) balls over those 4 seasons combined.

Statistically speaking, that's one more TD for his entire career at best.

Also, I don't think you should be that quick to dismiss Marshall's edge as "only 5 more TDs", considering that Holmes has only gone over that number in a given season once, and the only season Marshall didn't go over 5 TDs was when he only started 1 game as a rookie.

Prior to last year Marshalls' career high in TDs was 7, Santonio 8. Marshall is also target #1 and #2 in Denver while Santonio played played in an offense where they distributed the football.

I'm not arguing Santonio is better but he's really good and I think we got better value w/ our trade only giving up a mid round pick.


It's funny because, while he did well, when I think of superbowl mvp's I keep thinking of Desmond Howard. He turned out great..lol. Point is just because you were a superbowl mvp doesn't mean your an amazing player for the rest of your career and so far Holmes hasn't come close to being considered a top flight receiver, unless you ask a Jet's fan then he's top 15 or so.

Howard won his MVP on STs. He didn't have a reception on offense.

I would say Santonio is a top 15-20 WR, is that really crazy? he followed up one of the greatest SB performances ever w/ a 1250 yd season. That's pretty damn good. He has off field issues just like Marshall and unlike Marshall Santonio has played in and thrived in big games. Until you perform on the big stage there will be questions, Cris Carter was a great WR until the games got big then he shrunk- Will Marshall be a Cris Carter type if Miami makes the postseason? We don't know but we do know Santonio can play on the biggest stage.

cyberpaki
07-07-2010, 12:16 PM
I'm not arguing Santonio is better but he's really good and I think we got better value w/ our trade only giving up a mid round pick.

I definitely can't argue against that.

SabanHater
07-07-2010, 12:51 PM
typical Jet talk. However, it is July... this is usually when they declare themselves offseason champs.

Roman529
07-07-2010, 12:56 PM
Santonio is a little punk. He'll be suspended or out of the league soon.

Roman529
07-07-2010, 01:00 PM
The Dolphins secondary is in REAL rough shape if rookies don't get better.

When the Buffalo Bills d-backs can get FIVE picks off of Sanchez in one game, the Phins secondary should not and will not be that concerned. You put a little pressure on Sanchez and he falls apart. I still think Sanchez has a long way to go.

bpackers13
07-07-2010, 01:09 PM
WOW!!!!! I can't believe tha I'm seeing the names Marshall and Holmes in the same sentence, much less being compared to eachother. Santonio only wishes he could sniff Marshall's jock strap. Bet on it!!!!!!!!!

nyjunc
07-07-2010, 01:42 PM
Do some of you folks even watch football? Some of these resposnes are beyond being a homer, there's just no way a knowledgeable fan can post some of the stuff we see on here.

RealDriscoll
07-07-2010, 01:48 PM
Santonio holmes is a good player but not even a Top 10 Receiver in Football. In fact Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, DeSean Jackson, Larry Fitzgerald, Randy Moss, Vincent Jackson, Anquan Boldin, Chad Ochocinco, Miles Austin, Calvin Johnson, Greg Jennings, Sidney Rice, Roddy White, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Reggie Wayne, and possibly Hakeem Nicks are all better players. Not to mention he is a piece of trash as a human being.

nyjunc
07-07-2010, 01:51 PM
Santonio holmes is a good player but not even a Top 10 Receiver in Football. In fact Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, DeSean Jackson, Larry Fitzgerald, Randy Moss, Vincent Jackson, Anquan Boldin, Chad Ochocinco, Miles Austin, Calvin Johnson, Greg Jennings, Sidney Rice, Roddy White, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Reggie Wayne, and possibly Hakeem Nicks are all better players. Not to mention he is a piece of trash as a human being.

I hope you weren't going in order putting Marshall ahead of Fitz.

and were you talking about Holmes, Marshall or both w/ that last sentence?

RealDriscoll
07-07-2010, 02:06 PM
Santonio is trash just like New York. I did put Marshall ahead of Fitz; We will see what Fitz can do without Warner and Boldin.

nyjunc
07-07-2010, 02:10 PM
Santonio is trash just like New York. I did put Marshall ahead of Fitz; We will see what Fitz can do without Warner and Boldin.

:lol2: all players can't be good people like Brandon Marshall:lol:

Fitz is so much better than Marshall it's not even worth discussing.

mrodriguez4096
07-07-2010, 02:21 PM
Howard won his MVP on STs. He didn't have a reception on offense.

I would say Santonio is a top 15-20 WR, is that really crazy? he followed up one of the greatest SB performances ever w/ a 1250 yd season. That's pretty damn good. He has off field issues just like Marshall and unlike Marshall Santonio has played in and thrived in big games. Until you perform on the big stage there will be questions, Cris Carter was a great WR until the games got big then he shrunk- Will Marshall be a Cris Carter type if Miami makes the postseason? We don't know but we do know Santonio can play on the biggest stage.

- I know that Howard won it on STs play, my point by saying that is simply that BEING a superbowl MVP doesn't really mean your a great player, just means you had a great game (obviously that game being a superbowl means more then it being just any other game).

- Considering Holmes a top 15-20 WR is your opinion. Because when I look at his stats since he came into the league this is what I see;

06' - 49rec 824yrds 2TD
07' - 52rec 942yrds 8TD
08' - 55rec 821yrds 5TD
09' - 79rec 1248yrds 5TD

- Played in and thrived in big games? - You got the "played in" part right. Here are Holmes's stats during the playoffs;

06' - N/A
07' - 3rec 49yrds 1TD
08' - 2rec 25yrds 0TD (vs SD), 2rec 70yrds(65yrd pass on one play) 1TD (vs Bal), 9rec 131yrds 1TD (vs Arz)
09' - N/A

So what does this all show? that your grasping at straws when your saying "thrived in big games". He had ONE big game vs Arz in his playoff history. His regular season shows that he is average at best with one good season thrown in there. You guys should know about players who had one good season and nothing else, there is one playing across from Revis right now who is living off rep and nothing else.

Could Holmes turn out to be great? Sure, has he done anything to this point to really make you think he is a top 15-20 WR, no.

XxfeensterxX
07-07-2010, 02:28 PM
:lol2: all players can't be good people like Brandon Marshall:lol:

Fitz is so much better than Marshall it's not even worth discussing.

So much huh? Didnt realize he was SO much better. A little bit better? Yeah, I think Fitz is #1 or #2 in the league, Marshall is #3 or #4 though.

nyjunc
07-07-2010, 03:03 PM
- I know that Howard won it on STs play, my point by saying that is simply that BEING a superbowl MVP doesn't really mean your a great player, just means you had a great game (obviously that game being a superbowl means more then it being just any other game).

- Considering Holmes a top 15-20 WR is your opinion. Because when I look at his stats since he came into the league this is what I see;

06' - 49rec 824yrds 2TD
07' - 52rec 942yrds 8TD
08' - 55rec 821yrds 5TD
09' - 79rec 1248yrds 5TD

- Played in and thrived in big games? - You got the "played in" part right. Here are Holmes's stats during the playoffs;

06' - N/A
07' - 3rec 49yrds 1TD
08' - 2rec 25yrds 0TD (vs SD), 2rec 70yrds(65yrd pass on one play) 1TD (vs Bal), 9rec 131yrds 1TD (vs Arz)
09' - N/A

So what does this all show? that your grasping at straws when your saying "thrived in big games". He had ONE big game vs Arz in his playoff history. His regular season shows that he is average at best with one good season thrown in there. You guys should know about players who had one good season and nothing else, there is one playing across from Revis right now who is living off rep and nothing else.

Could Holmes turn out to be great? Sure, has he done anything to this point to really make you think he is a top 15-20 WR, no.

I have never called him great and obviously a SB MVP doesn't mean you are great but he followed up that great game with an outstanding season. He's a really good player.

He wasn't a starter in '06 and missed time in the other 2 seasons before last year and in his most recent year he had 80 recs for 1250 yds, that's top 15-20, actually that is probably better than top 15-20.

Is there a bigger game than the super Bowl?

he gets penalized b/c he had a 65 yd TD? That's called making plays in big games. Someday maybe Marshall will get to play in a big game.


So much huh? Didnt realize he was SO much better. A little bit better? Yeah, I think Fitz is #1 or #2 in the league, Marshall is #3 or #4 though.

The gap btw 1 and 2(Johnson and Fitz) to #3 and 4 is a big one. Fitz not only catches the ball as much as Marshall but he also stretches the field and scores alot more.

RealDriscoll
07-07-2010, 03:08 PM
Well the distance between Marshall and Santio is far greater than the difference between Fitzgerald and Marshall. Let's be honest Braylon Edwards is one of the most overrated player in the game. I would say with a staright face he is not even a top 50 Wide Receiver. Santonio Holmes is good but nothing to be scared of. Your just a Jets fan drinking the Kool-Aid. let's take an honest look at your offseason. LaDanian Tomlinson has been done for two years and is a downgrade from Thomas Jones. Alan Faneca isn't the same player he once was by Vladimir Ducasse is a project at best. Jason Taylor might get 7 sacks but he SUCKS against the run. You lost Kerry Rhodes. Antonio Cromartie was awesome his rookie year and has sucked since. In fact I am pretty sure he is Brandon Marshall's *****.

nyjunc
07-07-2010, 03:20 PM
Well the distance between Marshall and Santio is far greater than the difference between Fitzgerald and Marshall. Let's be honest Braylon Edwards is one of the most overrated player in the game. I would say with a staright face he is not even a top 50 Wide Receiver. Santonio Holmes is good but nothing to be scared of. Your just a Jets fan drinking the Kool-Aid. let's take an honest look at your offseason. LaDanian Tomlinson has been done for two years and is a downgrade from Thomas Jones. Alan Faneca isn't the same player he once was by Vladimir Ducasse is a project at best. Jason Taylor might get 7 sacks but he SUCKS against the run. You lost Kerry Rhodes. Antonio Cromartie was awesome his rookie year and has sucked since. In fact I am pretty sure he is Brandon Marshall's *****.

I'm not sure about that. Brandon is one of the best WRs in the league but he is just a possession guy, Santonio can stretch the field.

If you say he is not top 50 then I question what sport you are watching.

LT is coming here as a backup just like Ricky is for you.

I'm not sure about faneca, I wish we kept him.


Cromartie won't be the one shutting down Marsha, that will be the best corner in football- Darrelle Revis.

mrodriguez4096
07-07-2010, 03:37 PM
I have never called him great and obviously a SB MVP doesn't mean you are great but he followed up that great game with an outstanding season. He's a really good player.

He wasn't a starter in '06 and missed time in the other 2 seasons before last year and in his most recent year he had 80 recs for 1250 yds, that's top 15-20, actually that is probably better than top 15-20.

Is there a bigger game than the super Bowl?

he gets penalized b/c he had a 65 yd TD? That's called making plays in big games. Someday maybe Marshall will get to play in a big game.



The gap btw 1 and 2(Johnson and Fitz) to #3 and 4 is a big one. Fitz not only catches the ball as much as Marshall but he also stretches the field and scores alot more.

- I'll assume you mean better then top 15-20 for THAT season, right? Because to say he is a top 15-20 WR would require consistency wish he has not shown, regardless of the excuses you give.

- I never said he got penalized just pointing out that your "thrives in big games" is bs because in that play specifically he had ONE BIG PLAY and then did nothing else for the entire game.

- Your obsession with trying to downplay Marshall and talk up Homles is laughable at best. There are obvious reasons the Steelers GAVE AWAY Holmes and didn't press harder to get something more. They obviously feel his production can be replicated by someone else.

nyjunc
07-07-2010, 03:49 PM
- I'll assume you mean better then top 15-20 for THAT season, right? Because to say he is a top 15-20 WR would require consistency wish he has not shown, regardless of the excuses you give.

- I never said he got penalized just pointing out that your "thrives in big games" is bs because in that play specifically he had ONE BIG PLAY and then did nothing else for the entire game.

- Your obsession with trying to downplay Marshall and talk up Homles is laughable at best. There are obvious reasons the Steelers GAVE AWAY Holmes and didn't press harder to get something more. They obviously feel his production can be replicated by someone else.

Yes, based off the most recent season which is what matters most.

He has been consistent. He's missed a few games which have skewed his #s but he has been consistent.

if you prorate his 2007 #s over 16 games he has 64 recs, 1160 yds, 10 TDs. That's a really good year. That would give him 2 1,000+ seasons in 3 full seasons.

That play was big and despite limited opportunities he ledt his mark on that game which helped get Pitt to the SB. Sometimes all you need is one play. Remmeber, he wasn't the only option on that team unlike marshall in Denver.


I'm not trying to downplay Marshall. I have never said Holmes was as good, i just point out facts like he is a possession WR. You guys act like you git jerry Rice but you really got Al Toon. Still a really good player but not as good as you think he is.


Ther are obvious reasons why Denver gave up Marshall too. it's hysterical how dolphin fans talk about Holmes' off field problems and ignore Marshalls.

mrodriguez4096
07-07-2010, 04:03 PM
Yes, based off the most recent season which is what matters most.

He has been consistent. He's missed a few games which have skewed his #s but he has been consistent.

if you prorate his 2007 #s over 16 games he has 64 recs, 1160 yds, 10 TDs. That's a really good year. That would give him 2 1,000+ seasons in 3 full seasons.

That play was big and despite limited opportunities he ledt his mark on that game which helped get Pitt to the SB. Sometimes all you need is one play. Remmeber, he wasn't the only option on that team unlike marshall in Denver.


I'm not trying to downplay Marshall. I have never said Holmes was as good, i just point out facts like he is a possession WR. You guys act like you git jerry Rice but you really got Al Toon. Still a really good player but not as good as you think he is.


Ther are obvious reasons why Denver gave up Marshall too. it's hysterical how dolphin fans talk about Holmes' off field problems and ignore Marshalls.

- Same song and dance you use for Sanchez.

- LOL, what a shocker reading that from you. You make a statement and no matter how silly or what the numbers ACTUALLY say you'll find a way to justify what you said. :lol::lol:

- I never said Marshall is like Rice but Marshall IS MUCH better then Holmes or Edwards and that is where your homer view doesn't allow you to see that fact despite what you try to spew.

- Of course there were reasons Denver gave up on Marshall but they realized they could get serious value for him and were willing to wait it out unlike the Steelers who just wanted Holmes gone. I have never ignored Marshall's problems but that isn't what we are talking about now but somehow you feel the need to bring that up because the ACTUAL reason holds no water.

Tunaphish429
07-07-2010, 04:05 PM
Yes, based off the most recent season which is what matters most.

He has been consistent. He's missed a few games which have skewed his #s but he has been consistent.

if you prorate his 2007 #s over 16 games he has 64 recs, 1160 yds, 10 TDs. That's a really good year. That would give him 2 1,000+ seasons in 3 full seasons.

That play was big and despite limited opportunities he ledt his mark on that game which helped get Pitt to the SB. Sometimes all you need is one play. Remmeber, he wasn't the only option on that team unlike marshall in Denver.


I'm not trying to downplay Marshall. I have never said Holmes was as good, i just point out facts like he is a possession WR. You guys act like you git jerry Rice but you really got Al Toon. Still a really good player but not as good as you think he is.


Ther are obvious reasons why Denver gave up Marshall too. it's hysterical how dolphin fans talk about Holmes' off field problems and ignore Marshalls.

Broncos got rid of Marshall beacause his stock was high..They didnt want him controlling their team anymore and wanted to get something for him while the iron was hot...

Marshall is not just a possesion WR..Marshall is in the Mold of more of Mike Irvin rather than Rice I do agree but Michael is in the Hall for a reason...

Holmes was traded right on the cusp of him getting a suspenion...The steelers didnt want anymore negeitve press.

If you think that Marshall cant catch a 5 yrd slant and take it 80 yrds your mistaken..The guys runs excellent routes.. and played balls to the wall for a team he didnt wanna play for..

Now he is with the greatest sports team on earth....Man the season needs to get here.

nyjunc
07-07-2010, 04:10 PM
- Same song and dance you use for Sanchez.

- LOL, what a shocker reading that from you. You make a statement and no matter how silly or what the numbers ACTUALLY say you'll find a way to justify what you said. :lol::lol:

- I never said Marshall is like Rice but Marshall IS MUCH better then Holmes or Edwards and that is where your homer view doesn't allow you to see that fact despite what you try to spew.

- Of course there were reasons Denver gave up on Marshall but they realized they could get serious value for him and were willing to wait it out unlike the Steelers who just wanted Holmes gone. I have never ignored Marshall's problems but that isn't what we are talking about now but somehow you feel the need to bring that up because the ACTUAL reason holds no water.

yep, same song and dance. How dare I want guys that can play when the games and moments matter most. It's much bettre to have better fantasy players that cannot produce in big spots.:rolleyes:

YOU left out key info to skew your weak(as usual) argument.

Marshall is better than Edwards and holmes but not MUCH. Those 2 are closer to Marshall than Marshall is to the top 2 guys in the league.

The man has 3 straight 100 rec seasons and they didn't even get a 1st rd pick. They had to get rid of him and they took a lesser deal b/c of it, so did Pitt w/ holmes. It's ok to admit a player on the dolphins is a bad guy.

You haven't ignored Marshalls problems? By bringing up Holmes' problems and not mentioning marshalls you do just that. Both guys are on new teams b/c of their off field issues, if it was about talent there's no way we'd have either guy.

nyjunc
07-07-2010, 04:13 PM
Broncos got rid of Marshall beacause his stock was high..They didnt want him controlling their team anymore and wanted to get something for him while the iron was hot...

Marshall is not just a possesion WR..Marshall is in the Mold of more of Mike Irvin rather than Rice I do agree but Michael is in the Hall for a reason...

Holmes was traded right on the cusp of him getting a suspenion...The steelers didnt want anymore negeitve press.

If you think that Marshall cant catch a 5 yrd slant and take it 80 yrds your mistaken..The guys runs excellent routes.. and played balls to the wall for a team he didnt wanna play for..

Now he is with the greatest sports team on earth....Man the season needs to get here.

His stock was high? The man is just entering his prime and they didn't get a 1st round pick. We once got TWO 1st round picks for a similar player at a similar stage of his career in Keyshawn Johnson.

Irvin could stretch the field, Marshall does not.

Marshall averages 12 yards per for his career(just 11 last year), he isn't taking too many 5 yard slants and going the distance w/ that average.

Nublar7
07-07-2010, 04:25 PM
Yes, based off the most recent season which is what matters most.So the most recent season matters most? Then why does 2007 keep coming up from you when discussing Braylon Edwards? If the most recent season is what matters most, then it is safe to say Braylon is just an average receiver. He is a middle of the pack receiver in the league and nowhere close to the elite status of a Andre Johnson, Fitz or Marshall. Braylon may show "flashes" of being elite like you have mentioned, but so did Chris Chambers when he was with the Dolphins. Would you consider Chambers(when he was a Dolphin) an elite receiver?

Tunaphish429
07-07-2010, 04:26 PM
His stock was high? The man is just entering his prime and they didn't get a 1st round pick. We once got TWO 1st round picks for a similar player at a similar stage of his career in Keyshawn Johnson.

Irvin could stretch the field, Marshall does not.

Marshall averages 12 yards per for his career(just 11 last year), he isn't taking too many 5 yard slants and going the distance w/ that average.

Irvin's average was 15.9 Marhshall's is 12.3..

I could count on one hand how many quick screens I ever saw thrown to Irvin..Marshall got 2 to 3 a game..

He is an ext of a running back beacause of his Yac ability..

Marshalls long in his four seasons are 71,68,47, 75..

Yes he can take a slant route 80 yrds

Irvin's best four are 87,66,65,65


The Remark about what the Broncos got...Well they got 2 2nd round draft picks..which most experts thought was pretty steep...


The Jets got 2 first rounder beacuse Keyshawn was the #1 overall pick..

Also its hard to compare era's with something like that..

You dont know what the demand was back than for someone like Keyshawn...

Gas was way cheaper 15 years ago..Not to mention also that Keyshawn was under contract..Marshall was not..

Him getting traded was contingent (SP) on him getting a new deal from that new team..that being the phins

nyjunc
07-07-2010, 04:27 PM
So the most recent season matters most? Then why does 2007 keep coming up from you when discussing Braylon Edwards? If the most recent season is what matters most, then it is safe to say Braylon is just an average receiver. He is a middle of the pack receiver in the league and nowhere close to the elite status of a Andre Johnson, Fitz or Marshall. Braylon may show "flashes" of being elite like you have mentioned, but so did Chris Chambers when he was with the Dolphins. Would you consider Chambers(when he was a Dolphin) an elite receiver?

I can't remember the last time I brought up 2007 for Braylon and I haven't said he's a top WR right now. At his peak he had a better season than any Marshall has had but Marshall has seperated himself w/ his consistency.

Chambers was never elite, Braylon was for one season.

Nublar7
07-07-2010, 04:29 PM
The man has 3 straight 100 rec seasons and they didn't even get a 1st rd pick. They had to get rid of him and they took a lesser deal b/c of it, so did Pitt w/ holmes. It's ok to admit a player on the dolphins is a bad guy.Randy Moss was traded to the Patriots for a 4th round pick. The "great" Holmes was traded for a 5th round pick. Even McNabb a top tier quarterback did not go for a 1st round pick. So what is your point? This isn't the early 2000s or the 90s, trades involving players for 1st round picks don't really happen much anymore. Two second round picks is a steep price.

nyjunc
07-07-2010, 04:33 PM
Irvin's average was 15.9 Marhshall's is 12.3..

I could count on one hand how many quick screens I ever saw thrown to Irvin..Marshall got 2 to 3 a game..

He is an ext of a running back beacause of his Yac ability..

Marshalls long in his four seasons are 71,68,47, 75..

Yes he can take a slant route 80 yrds

Irvin's best four are 87,66,65,65


The Remark about what the Broncos got...Well they got 2 2nd round draft picks..which most experts thought was pretty steep...


The Jets got 2 first rounder beacuse Keyshawn was the #1 overall pick..

Also its hard to compare area's with something like that..

You dont know what the demand was back than for someone like Keyshawn...

Gas was way cheaper 15 years ago..Not to mention also that Keyshawn was under contract..Marshall was not..

Him getting traded was contingent (SP) on him getting a new deal from that new team..that being the phins

You realize there is a HUGE difference btw 15.9 and 12.3, right?

Obviously Marshall isn't taking those short passes and turning them into long gains or his average wouldn't be 12 for his career.


What does that say about the rest of his recs? obviously he's not getting downfield much w/ such a puny average. he's a possession guy, Irvin made plays down the field as does Holmes and Edwards. That doesn't make them better just different. On some teams a possession guy is needed, on others you need big play guys. Right now we have our possession guys in Cotch and keller and our big play guys while you guys don't have a big play WR.

The #1 overall pick had nothing to do w/ what we got for Key. He had played 4 years for us and was an upper echelon WR just like Marshall is now. His draft position had nothing to do w/ what we got back. Key wasn't a guy who got in trouble w/ the law and we held the upper hand starting a bidding war btw multiple teams. Denver couldn't do that.

Key was making waves b/c he wanted a new deal, his rookioe deal only had a year left I believe much like Marshall.

nyjunc
07-07-2010, 04:40 PM
Randy Moss was traded to the Patriots for a 4th round pick. The "great" Holmes was traded for a 5th round pick. Even McNabb a top tier quarterback did not go for a 1st round pick. So what is your point? This isn't the early 2000s or the 90s, trades involving players for 1st round picks don't really happen much anymore. Two second round picks is a steep price.

Many thought Moss was done and you have to throw any compensation out the window when it involves al davis or Daniel Snyder.

Show me where I called holmes great?

McNabb is old.


Wes welker having done little in his career at that point once went for a 2nd and 7th rd pick.

Jay Cutler who has done nothing in this league got denver 2 1st round picks PLUS Kyle Orton PLUS more picks.

Atlanta got old Tony Gonzalaez for a 2nd round pick.

2 2nd rd picks was nice but w/ a player the caliber of Marshall they should have gotten much more but off field issues and his attitude problems limited Denver in what they could get for him.

JFoxx
07-07-2010, 04:41 PM
So . . . back to the original point of the post . . . S. Holmes answering a question about the phins. Who cares. I don't care why he doesn't like the Dolphins and if he's looking forward to playing us once he serves his suspension or not. Let him and every other member of the Jets talk all they want during the off-season. I'd prefer to be doing all the talking during the season and the games by demonstrating it, not just talking it. All the rest of this is just pre-season time killing nonsense.

Tunaphish429
07-07-2010, 04:41 PM
You realize there is a HUGE difference btw 15.9 and 12.3, right?

Obviously Marshall isn't taking those short passes and turning them into long gains or his average wouldn't be 12 for his career.


What does that say about the rest of his recs? obviously he's not getting downfield much w/ such a puny average. he's a possession guy, Irvin made plays down the field as does Holmes and Edwards. That doesn't make them better just different. On some teams a possession guy is needed, on others you need big play guys. Right now we have our possession guys in Cotch and keller and our big play guys while you guys don't have a big play WR.

The #1 overall pick had nothing to do w/ what we got for Key. He had played 4 years for us and was an upper echelon WR just like Marshall is now. His draft position had nothing to do w/ what we got back. Key wasn't a guy who got in trouble w/ the law and we held the upper hand starting a bidding war btw multiple teams. Denver couldn't do that.

Key was making waves b/c he wanted a new deal, his rookioe deal only had a year left I believe much like Marshall.


Yes but Marshall could not get traded unless he signed his tender which he did a day before he was traded to the phins beacause we were willing to give up what we gave up..

Um Yes where someone was orginally drafted matters..

Also not to mention that the 1st rounder that were given up would have been late 1st rounders because I do believe they made it to the NFC championship the year before..Late 1st is a few spots higher on a draft chart..

And Yes he average is 3 yrds lower which really is not that big a deal IMO...Anything over 10 is damn good..

Its just like with a running back..if you have a few 2 and 3 yrd recptions its not like your any worse beacause your avg' is less...

It does not matter that Marshall is not a burner when he is timed beacause he has the ability and stregth to go over the middle..

Teams have to respect by either playing bracket coverage or by pressing him...And its alot easier for a WR to get behind a CB when they are closer..

I would argue that Marshall is a complete WR..I would argue that he will affect the game if he does or does not catch a pass just like Jerry Rice did...

Just like Great DE , they dont need great stat lines to show you that they left a mark on the game they just played in

nyjunc
07-07-2010, 04:49 PM
Yes but Marshall could not get traded unless he signed his tender which he did a day before he was traded to the phins beacause we were willing to give up what we gave up..

Um Yes where someone was orginally drafted matters..

Also not to mention that the 1st rounder that were given up would have been late 1st rounders because I do believe they made it to the NFC championship the year before..Late 1st is a few spots higher on a draft chart..

And Yes he average is 3 yrds lower which really is not that big a deal IMO...Anything over 10 is damn good..

Its just like with a running back..if you have a few 2 and 3 yrd recptions its not like your any worse beacause your avg' is less...

It does not matter that Marshall is not a burner when he is timed beacause he has the ability and stregth to go over the middle..

Teams have to respect by either playing bracket coverage or by pressing him...And its alot easier for a WR to get behind a CB when they are closer..

I would argue that Marshall is a complete WR..I would argue that he will affect the game if he does or does not catch a pass just like Jerry Rice did...

Just like Great DE , they dont need great stat lines to show you that they left a mark on the game they just played in

Where Key was drafted had nothing to do w/ it. Why couldn't Oakland get something for Russell then? Why couldn't Cle get something for tim Couch? You think Vernon Gholston has any value right now? Why didn't Miami get back a high pick for Ginn? Key was in the league 4 years and established himself as a top WR just like marshall has.

TB gave up TWO first round picks not one.

Anything over 10 is good? No it's not. 10-11 is BAD for a WR, 12 is ok, 14-15 is very good. The difference btw Irvin at 16 and Marshall at 12 is as big as the Grand Canyon.

Any quality WR can affect a game whether they catch a pass or not just b/c of the attention they demand. Braylon did tha for us last year and he had a poor #s year.

I'd buy that last line but his teams have never even made a playoff app so he's not having that great of a impact on the game if the team isn't winning.

Tunaphish429
07-07-2010, 05:19 PM
Where Key was drafted had nothing to do w/ it. Why couldn't Oakland get something for Russell then? Why couldn't Cle get something for tim Couch? You think Vernon Gholston has any value right now? Why didn't Miami get back a high pick for Ginn? Key was in the league 4 years and established himself as a top WR just like marshall has.

TB gave up TWO first round picks not one.

Anything over 10 is good? No it's not. 10-11 is BAD for a WR, 12 is ok, 14-15 is very good. The difference btw Irvin at 16 and Marshall at 12 is as big as the Grand Canyon.

Any quality WR can affect a game whether they catch a pass or not just b/c of the attention they demand. Braylon did tha for us last year and he had a poor #s year.

I'd buy that last line but his teams have never even made a playoff app so he's not having that great of a impact on the game if the team isn't winning.

Oakland could not get anything beacause J Russel was terrible..Ginn was had for a 5th beacause the Market was set at that..Holmes beacuse of the field issues..Getting Marshall was huge for the phins..Like Nublar said it was pretty heafty price..

You cant compare what the Jets got for keyshawn 10 years ago..Not to mention like I said your just saying 2 1st rounders..

Go to the Value chart and find out exactly the amount of points on the value chart if your so confiend that the Jets got way more Value.

Well you wont know what our 2nd is beacause it hasnt happend yet..

In a market where a super bowl MVP is had for 5th rounder would you say 2 2nd rounders is pretty high for a player who was tendered for just a 1st and 3rd..why would someone give up 2 1st rounders for him in a trade...

Going back to what your saying that where someone was drafted does not matter..Yes it does...But just beacuse I bought a house for 2.7 Million does not mean its going to go up stock.. So yea I might be willing to take a bit of a loss on it..Just like I would with a player like Ted Ginn...Phins invested a high pick on him the investment was not returned beacuase there was no demand for him..

Now if i buy a house for 20 k and someone offers me 100k I will be way more willing to sell it to them, even if the house is said to worth 150 K...

I am making money either way.. The house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it..Just like Holmes..Teams were only willing to give up a 5th so they got him for a 5th..Phins were willing to give up 2 2nd plus give him a new contract which other teams might not have been so inclined to do.

nyjunc
07-07-2010, 05:31 PM
Oakland could not get anything beacause J Russel was terrible..Ginn was had for a 5th beacause the Market was set at that..Holmes beacuse of the field issues..Getting Marshall was huge for the phins..Like Nublar said it was pretty heafty price..

You cant compare what the Jets got for keyshawn 10 years ago..Not to mention like I said your just saying 2 1st rounders..

Go to the Value chart and find out exactly the amount of points on the value chart if your so confiend that the Jets got way more Value.

Well you wont know what our 2nd is beacause it hasnt happend yet..

In a market where a super bowl MVP is had for 5th rounder would you say 2 2nd rounders is pretty high for a player who was tendered for just a 1st and 3rd..why would someone give up 2 1st rounders for him in a trade...

Going back to what your saying that where someone was drafted does not matter..Yes it does...But just beacuse I bought a house for 2.7 Million does not mean its going to go up stock.. So yea I might be willing to take a bit of a loss on it..Just like I would with a player like Ted Ginn...Phins invested a high pick on him the investment was not returned beacuase there was no demand for him..

Now if i buy a house for 20 k and someone offers me 100k I will be way more willing to sell it to them, even if the house is said to worth 150 K...

I am making money either way.. The house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it..Just like Holmes..Teams were only willing to give up a 5th so they got him for a 5th..Phins were willing to give up 2 2nd plus give him a new contract which other teams might not have been so inclined to do.

Umm it doesn't matter what the draft value chart says, 1 1st rounders will always be better than 2 2nd rounders. Even if it was the last 2 picks in the first rd vs. the 1st 2 picks in the 2nd rd. The Jets got the 13th and 27th picks of the 1st rd, that's MUCH better than what Denver got for Marshall and his off field problems had alot to do w/ that.

Two 2nd rounders is good for Denver but not great. A year earlier his QB fetched 2 1st rounders plus more picks AND a decent starting QB. I know a WR is not a QB but Marshall is a much better WR than Cutler a QB.

Comparing draft position to real estate is not a good comparison. Again, the pats traded 2nd and 7th rd picks for an undrafted Wes Welker. Draft position had nothing to do w/ the Key deal. MAYBE if it was after a year or 2 but after 4 years? not a chance.

Nublar7
07-07-2010, 05:32 PM
I can't remember the last time I brought up 2007 for Braylon and I haven't said he's a top WR right now. At his peak he had a better season than any Marshall has had but Marshall has seperated himself w/ his consistency.

Chambers was never elite, Braylon was for one season.

Not really. Braylon's best single season receptions was 80, Brandon's best is 104. Braylon's best receiving yards in a single season was 1,289, while Brandon's best is 1,325. The only thing Braylon had more of in a single season was touchdowns where his best is 16 and Brandon's is 10. Despite that one fluke year in 2007 when Edwards was catching balls from a Pro Bowl quarterback he hasn't done much in his other four years to be considered anything more than an average receiver.

Also, Chambers in 2005 had 82 receptions, 1,118 yards and 11 touchdowns yet you wouldn't consider that an elite year. Yet you consider Braylons 80 receptions, 1,289 yards and 16 touchdowns elite. I think you are getting a bit caught up in that 16 touchdown mark A feat Braylon hasn't even come within 10 touchdowns of that in his other four seasons. The only difference between Chambers of 2005 and Edwards of 2007 in your mind is that one was a Dolphin and one is currently a Jet.

In my mind Edwards is just like Chambers. He had one big year, he has shown flashes but was and never will be a true #1 receiver. Neither were/are that dominate.

I also love how you toss around the words "possession receiver" when talking about Marshall but you consider Edwards and Holmes to be "play-makers". Marshall caught a lot of screen passes, which brings down his YPC, but he is a playmaker. When the ball is in his hands there is always the chance for something big. He is a receiver you need to keep your eye on if you are a defense and he is a game changer. A possession receiver is usually a guy with good hands that for the most part helps your team retain possession. Marshall does do that, but he is so much more dangerous then that. By calling Marshall a possession receiver you are basically saying he is just another Wes Welker type player. That is so far from the truth.

Also Brandon "The Possession Receiver" Marshall has 27 receptions over 20 yards and 5 receptions over 40 yards the past two seasons combined. Braylon "The Long Ball" Edwards over the past two seasons has 26 receptions over 20 yards and 6 receptions over 40 yards. Marshall's longest reception in the past two seasons? 75 yards. Edwards? 70 yards.

Tunaphish429
07-07-2010, 05:36 PM
Umm it doesn't matter what the draft value chart says, 1 1st rounders will always be better than 2 2nd rounders. Even if it was the last 2 picks in the first rd vs. the 1st 2 picks in the 2nd rd. The Jets got the 13th and 27th picks of the 1st rd, that's MUCH better than what Denver got for Marshall and his off field problems had alot to do w/ that.

Two 2nd rounders is good for Denver but not great. A year earlier his QB fetched 2 1st rounders plus more picks AND a decent starting QB. I know a WR is not a QB but Marshall is a much better WR than Cutler a QB.

Comparing draft position to real estate is not a good comparison. Again, the pats traded 2nd and 7th rd picks for an undrafted Wes Welker. Draft position had nothing to do w/ the Key deal. MAYBE if it was after a year or 2 but after 4 years? not a chance.

Yea well I am sure thats why the Dolphins tendered him at a 2nd round draft pick Welker that is..Beacause he was orgianlly a UDFA...So they would be happy to get a 2nd rounder for him..

Just like the Bronos were very happy to get 2 2nd rounders

nyjunc
07-07-2010, 05:50 PM
Not really. Braylon's best single season receptions was 80, Brandon's best is 104. Braylon's best receiving yards in a single season was 1,289, while Brandon's best is 1,325. The only thing Braylon had more of in a single season was touchdowns where his best is 16 and Brandon's is 10. Despite that one fluke year in 2007 when Edwards was catching balls from a Pro Bowl quarterback he hasn't done much in his other four years to be considered anything more than an average receiver.

Also, Chambers in 2005 had 82 receptions, 1,118 yards and 11 touchdowns yet you wouldn't consider that an elite year. Yet you consider Braylons 80 receptions, 1,289 yards and 16 touchdowns elite. I think you are getting a bit caught up in that 16 touchdown mark A feat Braylon hasn't even come within 10 touchdowns of that in his other four seasons. The only difference between Chambers of 2005 and Edwards of 2007 in your mind is that one was a Dolphin and one is currently a Jet.

In my mind Edwards is just like Chambers. He had one big year, he has shown flashes but was and never will be a true #1 receiver. Neither were/are that dominate.

I also love how you toss around the words "possession receiver" when talking about Marshall but you consider Edwards and Holmes to be "play-makers". Marshall caught a lot of screen passes, which brings down his YPC, but he is a playmaker. When the ball is in his hands there is always the chance for something big. He is a receiver you need to keep your eye on if you are a defense and he is a game changer. A possession receiver is usually a guy with good hands that for the most part helps your team retain possession. Marshall does do that, but he is so much more dangerous then that. By calling Marshall a possession receiver you are basically saying he is just another Wes Welker type player. That is so far from the truth.

Also Brandon "The Possession Receiver" Marshall has 27 receptions over 20 yards and 5 receptions over 40 yards the past two seasons combined. Braylon "The Long Ball" Edwards over the past two seasons has 26 receptions over 20 yards and 6 receptions over 40 yards. Marshall's longest reception in the past two seasons? 75 yards. Edwards? 70 yards.

6 more TDs is alot and he had more yards and averaged 16.1 yards per rec which is almost 4 yards better than Marshall's career average.

How has that pro bowl QB done since? he had his worst year in 2009 w/o Braylon by the way.

Chambers season was made by one great game and he had 5 less TDs and averaged 2.5 less yards per rec. Chambers had three 100 yd games in 2005, Braylon had 4 in 2007. Chambers had TDs in 8 games, Braylon 11. Chambers had a good year but it wasn't nearly as good as Braylon's.

Chambers never showed he could be a #1, Braylon has shown that. he commnads double teams unlike Chambers.

Edwards and holmes average 15.5 and 16.3 yards per rec for their careers, Marshall averages 12.3 That's a possession WR vs. big play WRs.

If there is always the chance for something big how come he oly averaged 12.3 yards per rec? w/ many big plays that average would be much higher.

He is a wes welker type. They are basically extensions of the running game, their yards per are great....for RBs but average for WRs.

So w/ MUCH less opportunityu Braylon has as many recs over 20 yds and over 40 yds as Marshall? That pretty much sums up the point.

Actually Edwards longest reception was 80 yards- in the AFC Championship Game.

nyjunc
07-07-2010, 05:51 PM
Yea well I am sure thats why the Dolphins tendered him at a 2nd round draft pick Welker that is..Beacause he was orgianlly a UDFA...So they would be happy to get a 2nd rounder for him..

Just like the Bronos were very happy to get 2 2nd rounders

The broncos were happy to get rid of Marshall's problems but I assure you they weren't happy to get back just 2 2nd rounders. They settled for it b/c that was the best they could do b/c off his problems but they wanted and expected more.

Fintastic2124
07-07-2010, 06:01 PM
6 more TDs is alot and he had more yards and averaged 16.1 yards per rec which is almost 4 yards better than Marshall's career average.

How has that pro bowl QB done since? he had his worst year in 2009 w/o Braylon by the way.

Chambers season was made by one great game and he had 5 less TDs and averaged 2.5 less yards per rec. Chambers had three 100 yd games in 2005, Braylon had 4 in 2007. Chambers had TDs in 8 games, Braylon 11. Chambers had a good year but it wasn't nearly as good as Braylon's.

Chambers never showed he could be a #1, Braylon has shown that. he commnads double teams unlike Chambers.

Edwards and holmes average 15.5 and 16.3 yards per rec for their careers, Marshall averages 12.3 That's a possession WR vs. big play WRs.

If there is always the chance for something big how come he oly averaged 12.3 yards per rec? w/ many big plays that average would be much higher.

He is a wes welker type. They are basically extensions of the running game, their yards per are great....for RBs but average for WRs.

So w/ MUCH less opportunityu Braylon has as many recs over 20 yds and over 40 yds as Marshall? That pretty much sums up the point.

Actually Edwards longest reception was 80 yards- in the AFC Championship Game.

There is not even an argument here....Marshall is above Edwards. I guess you have to be a dolphin fan to see it.

KlausC
07-07-2010, 06:26 PM
When the Buffalo Bills d-backs can get FIVE picks off of Sanchez in one game, the Phins secondary should not and will not be that concerned. You put a little pressure on Sanchez and he falls apart. I still think Sanchez has a long way to go.

Talk about completely missing the point. The Bills had one of the better secondaries in the league last year BTW. The Fins rookie CB's sucked. I guess they always will.

Nublar7
07-07-2010, 08:09 PM
Talk about completely missing the point. The Bills had one of the better secondaries in the league last year BTW. The Fins rookie CB's sucked. I guess they always will.
Sucked? I guess so much that some opposing players believe that Davis and Smith are the best cornerback tandem in the league. Obviously that is a pretty crazy thing to say at this very moment, but their talent is starting to get noticed across the league. I think within the year or two, they will be considered the best duo in the AFC East.

KlausC
07-07-2010, 08:56 PM
Sucked? I guess so much that some opposing players believe that Davis and Smith are the best cornerback tandem in the league. Obviously that is a pretty crazy thing to say at this very moment, but their talent is starting to get noticed across the league. I think within the year or two, they will be considered the best duo in the AFC East.

Yes, they were two of the worst starting CB's in football last year. They sucked. No one believes they are presently the best tandem in the league, unless maybe some crazy fins fans think so. There was one guy at ESPN who said he thought they had the talent to BECOME the best in the league. See how people can project talent?

For all the Fins fans that like to crap on Cromartie's season last year and say he didn't do anything since '07 - he played FAR better than either of the Fins rookie CB's.

V. Davis 116 QB Rating when thrown against.
S. Smith 104 QB Rating when thrown against.
A. Cromartie 72 QB Rating when thrown against.

To put that into perspective V. Davis on average made QB's look better than, well, every QB in the league. Brees finished with a 109 QB rating and Manning finished with a 107 QB rating. S. Smith on average made QB's look like Aaron Rodgers (103) and Phillip Rivers (104). Cromartie on average made QB's look like an aging, breaking down Mark Bulger or Matt Hasslebeck.

Bigjbizzle2
07-07-2010, 08:58 PM
god i hope he messes up again for so many reasons

dolfan_101
07-07-2010, 09:12 PM
yep, same song and dance. How dare I want guys that can play when the games and moments matter most. It's much bettre to have better fantasy players that cannot produce in big spots.:rolleyes:

YOU left out key info to skew your weak(as usual) argument.

Marshall is better than Edwards and holmes but not MUCH. Those 2 are closer to Marshall than Marshall is to the top 2 guys in the league.

The man has 3 straight 100 rec seasons and they didn't even get a 1st rd pick. They had to get rid of him and they took a lesser deal b/c of it, so did Pitt w/ holmes. It's ok to admit a player on the dolphins is a bad guy.

You haven't ignored Marshalls problems? By bringing up Holmes' problems and not mentioning marshalls you do just that. Both guys are on new teams b/c of their off field issues, if it was about talent there's no way we'd have either guy.
lmao do you even watch football or just whack your pud to jest YouTube videos?

Nublar7
07-07-2010, 10:24 PM
Yes, they were two of the worst starting CB's in football last year. They sucked. No one believes they are presently the best tandem in the league, unless maybe some crazy fins fans think so. There was one guy at ESPN who said he thought they had the talent to BECOME the best in the league. See how people can project talent?

For all the Fins fans that like to crap on Cromartie's season last year and say he didn't do anything since '07 - he played FAR better than either of the Fins rookie CB's.

V. Davis 116 QB Rating when thrown against.
S. Smith 104 QB Rating when thrown against.
A. Cromartie 72 QB Rating when thrown against.

To put that into perspective V. Davis on average made QB's look better than, well, every QB in the league. Brees finished with a 109 QB rating and Manning finished with a 107 QB rating. S. Smith on average made QB's look like Aaron Rodgers (103) and Phillip Rivers (104). Cromartie on average made QB's look like an aging, breaking down Mark Bulger or Matt Hasslebeck.
Muhsin Muhammad is not a Dolphins fan, and he went against both the Dolphins duo and Revis last season, yet he sees more potential long term in Davis and Smith. How many rookie cornerback duos come in and dominate in their first season? They also will have Will Allen back to help them out and won't have Wilson making big mistakes that reflect badly on the entire unit.

Look, I am not saying they are the best or should even be considered the best. However, the potential for greatness is definitely there.

KlausC
07-07-2010, 10:42 PM
Muhsin Muhammad is not a Dolphins fan, and he went against both the Dolphins duo and Revis last season, yet he sees more potential long term in Davis and Smith. How many rookie cornerback duos come in and dominate in their first season? They also will have Will Allen back to help them out and won't have Wilson making big mistakes that reflect badly on the entire unit.

Look, I am not saying they are the best or should even be considered the best. However, the potential for greatness is definitely there.

I think they're both talented, I don't know there potential, I don't have a trained eye like an NFL player does. My point was that rookies who sucked last year won't necessarily suck this year or for the rest of their careers - Sanchez included.

How many rookie QB's come in and dominate their first season?

When former NFL players say they think Sanchez will be great you guys are awfully quick to dismiss it as stupid. When Mushin Mohammad thinks Smith and Davis will be great it's not so stupid though. Funny how that works.

rev kev
07-07-2010, 10:51 PM
I think they're both talented, I don't know there potential, I don't have a trained eye like an NFL player does. My point was that rookies who sucked last year won't necessarily suck this year or for the rest of their careers - Sanchez included.

How many rookie QB's come in and dominate their first season?

When former NFL players say they think Sanchez will be great you guys are awfully quick to dismiss it as stupid. When Mushin Mohammad thinks Smith and Davis will be great it's not so stupid though. Funny how that works.

Who said Sanchez is going to be great?

Nublar7
07-07-2010, 10:59 PM
I think they're both talented, I don't know there potential, I don't have a trained eye like an NFL player does. My point was that rookies who sucked last year won't necessarily suck this year or for the rest of their careers - Sanchez included.

How many rookie QB's come in and dominate their first season?

When former NFL players say they think Sanchez will be great you guys are awfully quick to dismiss it as stupid. When Mushin Mohammad thinks Smith and Davis will be great it's not so stupid though. Funny how that works.
There are some people that thought Sanchez was great last year and some people have gone so far to say that he actually led the team to the AFC title game. How crazy is that? He went along for the ride and actually had a pretty bad season. Yet some seem to think he is on the verge of being a star. He wasn't really that impressive in college, got overdrafted, and sucked as a starter last year.

The potential that some rookies show they do build off of, but Sanchez really didn't show a whole lot last season. I think he will be an average starter but a great guy to have as an emergency backup. My view of him is not solely based on his sucky rookie season stats, but of the potential he showed in college and last year. You put Sanchez on the Bills last year and they wouldn't have even won six games.

AphexPhin
07-07-2010, 11:39 PM
Holmes = hoodrat trash. Cant wait to see one of our safetys knock him the **** out.

cyberpaki
07-08-2010, 12:56 AM
Who said Sanchez is going to be great?

Sanchez is actually a pretty talented QB, he threw a whole 20 interceptions in his first 15 starts.

Compare that to 22 in Ryan Leaf's first 15 starts, and the fact that it took Jamarcus Russell 23 starts to throw that many interceptions, and couple that with the fact that neither of them had top ranked rushing games or even decent receivers for that matter, and you've got a guy who's definitely primed to make a run for the record books if he doesn't show vast improvement.

(And Jets fans, don't give me that crap about Peyton Manning holding the NFL record for picks in a rookie season with 28, his 8 additional picks also came with 26 TDs not 12.)

Possum
07-08-2010, 12:57 AM
big talk from a guy riding pine for 4 games.

FinFan 13
07-08-2010, 01:06 AM
lmao do you even watch football or just whack your pud to jest YouTube videos?


I have a serious question here.....

Why in the hell do we even respond to this Jest homer?????

He loves to talk stats(as long as they support his claims), but really he is just another jest homer. Why the hell give him the time of day?

I know we try and be above it all, but I don't go to the Jest sites and leave idiotic homer responses, why the hell is he even responded to? We all know what his responses will be, so why give him the benefit of our time.

Just a curiosity. I have been, in the past, as guilty as the next man. But I no longer even respond. I wish everybody else would follow suit, and just let his comments hit the wall and bounce off. We might be able to cure the cancer, just a thought.

FinFan 13
07-08-2010, 01:08 AM
I think they're both talented, I don't know there potential, I don't have a trained eye like an NFL player does. My point was that rookies who sucked last year won't necessarily suck this year or for the rest of their careers - Sanchez included.

How many rookie QB's come in and dominate their first season?

When former NFL players say they think Sanchez will be great you guys are awfully quick to dismiss it as stupid. When Mushin Mohammad thinks Smith and Davis will be great it's not so stupid though. Funny how that works.

There is only ONE......

And gratefully you and I both know whom I refer to.

Fake spike anyone??????

mrodriguez4096
07-08-2010, 04:37 AM
I have a serious question here.....

Why in the hell do we even respond to this Jest homer?????

He loves to talk stats(as long as they support his claims), but really he is just another jest homer. Why the hell give him the time of day?

I know we try and be above it all, but I don't go to the Jest sites and leave idiotic homer responses, why the hell is he even responded to? We all know what his responses will be, so why give him the benefit of our time.

Just a curiosity. I have been, in the past, as guilty as the next man. But I no longer even respond. I wish everybody else would follow suit, and just let his comments hit the wall and bounce off. We might be able to cure the cancer, just a thought.

Perfect post thank you.

SpaceMountain16
07-08-2010, 05:08 AM
Who cares? He's a Jet. All the Jets do is talk.

sm0kinfins
07-08-2010, 05:42 AM
Holmes AND Marshall can be a slip up away from being out of the league depending on what they do. Let's not act like marshall is a choir boy.

Do you even bother reading a post before you reply with your nonsense? The poster you're responding to didn't even mention Marshall. But that didn't stop you now did it?

nyjunc
07-08-2010, 08:23 AM
There is not even an argument here....Marshall is above Edwards. I guess you have to be a dolphin fan to see it.

Show me where I said Edwards is better than Marshall?


god i hope he messes up again for so many reasons

Are you talking about Marshall?


lmao do you even watch football or just whack your pud to jest YouTube videos?

I do watch football which is why i can say our explosive game changers are closer to your great possession WR than your great possession WR is to the explosive great WRs above him.

Recs are nice but when a guy averages 12 yards per for his career that does not impress me. He's the best WR in the division(unless Moss plays like he is capable of then he is by far the best in the division) but you guys act like he is Jerry Rice or randy Moss in their primes which he certainly is not.


Muhsin Muhammad is not a Dolphins fan, and he went against both the Dolphins duo and Revis last season, yet he sees more potential long term in Davis and Smith. How many rookie cornerback duos come in and dominate in their first season? They also will have Will Allen back to help them out and won't have Wilson making big mistakes that reflect badly on the entire unit.

Look, I am not saying they are the best or should even be considered the best. However, the potential for greatness is definitely there.

Muhsin had 3 for 27 against Miami and 1 for 2 against us. Delhomme had 130 yds and 4 INTs against us, 227 and 1 TD/1 INT against you. I can certainly see why he thinkls your secondary is better:lol:

Some people just say things to shock people. I think that was the case in this situation. That's not tos ay that duo will not be good b/c I think they will be good but they won't be Revis good and you or I can play corner opposite Revis and we'd still have an outstanding CB duo.


There are some people that thought Sanchez was great last year and some people have gone so far to say that he actually led the team to the AFC title game. How crazy is that? He went along for the ride and actually had a pretty bad season. Yet some seem to think he is on the verge of being a star. He wasn't really that impressive in college, got overdrafted, and sucked as a starter last year.

The potential that some rookies show they do build off of, but Sanchez really didn't show a whole lot last season. I think he will be an average starter but a great guy to have as an emergency backup. My view of him is not solely based on his sucky rookie season stats, but of the potential he showed in college and last year. You put Sanchez on the Bills last year and they wouldn't have even won six games.

NOBODY said Sanchez was great last year, not even his dad would say that. He was good for a ROOKIE and he grew up in the playoffs. If he didn't step up in postseason there is no way we make that run.

Sanchez showed a heck of alot. You guys unfairly judge him like he is a 10 year vet. he hadabout 3 putrid games which really skewed his #s but overall he had a good rookie season and showed flashes of his big time potential. Will he be great? who knows? but he has that ability.

If you are judging based on college then how do you think henne will be good in the NFL? Sanchez was MUCH better in college than henne and henne was known for not playing big in big games which he also did a year ago for you guys playing his worst down the stretch in the biggest games of the year.


Holmes = hoodrat trash. Cant wait to see one of our safetys knock him the **** out.

What does Marshall=?


Perfect post thank you.

:lol2::lol2:


Do you even bother reading a post before you reply with your nonsense? The poster you're responding to didn't even mention Marshall. But that didn't stop you now did it?

Yeah he mentioned Holmes ignoring all of Marshall's problems. Take your own advice.

It's hysterical how you guys call out other players when your team is full of thugs and you lead the league in arrests this offseason. Santonio Holmes IS a jerk but so is Marshall. For some reason you guys act like Holmes is a jerk but Marshall was misunderstood in denver and is this great guy.

rev kev
07-08-2010, 08:38 AM
Sanchez is actually a pretty talented QB, he threw a whole 20 interceptions in his first 15 starts.

Compare that to 22 in Ryan Leaf's first 15 starts, and the fact that it took Jamarcus Russell 23 starts to throw that many interceptions, and couple that with the fact that neither of them had top ranked rushing games or even decent receivers for that matter, and you've got a guy who's definitely primed to make a run for the record books if he doesn't show vast improvement.

(And Jets fans, don't give me that crap about Peyton Manning holding the NFL record for picks in a rookie season with 28, his 8 additional picks also came with 26 TDs not 12.)

I believe I'm waiting for a response from a certain whiteshowwillie about certain players who said Sanchez was destind for greatness. But these stats alone are hard to ignore - you nailed it Sanchez is a wonder

zackmandude63
07-08-2010, 08:51 AM
NOBODY said Sanchez was great last year, not even his dad would say that. He was good for a ROOKIE and he grew up in the playoffs. If he didn't step up in postseason there is no way we make that run.

Sanchez showed a heck of alot. You guys unfairly judge him like he is a 10 year vet. he hadabout 3 putrid games which really skewed his #s but overall he had a good rookie season and showed flashes of his big time potential. Will he be great? who knows? but he has that ability.

If you are judging based on college then how do you think henne will be good in the NFL? Sanchez was MUCH better in college than henne and henne was known for not playing big in big games which he also did a year ago for you guys playing his worst down the stretch in the biggest games of the year.



Sanchez only got to the playoffs because the Jets played teams with back ups, to close the season. And they only reached the AFC Title game, because the San Diego kicker choked.

"The odds of opposing kickers missing five straight field goals, which happened in the postseason, was 5,292-to-1." The quote was taken from the Football Outsider's yearbook via ESPN's AFC East blog.

So please get off of Sanchez's jockstarp. He ain't that good. He was just lucky last season. We'll see what happens when really kicks him in the teeth this season.

nyjunc
07-08-2010, 09:46 AM
I believe I'm waiting for a response from a certain whiteshowwillie about certain players who said Sanchez was destind for greatness. But these stats alone are hard to ignore - you nailed it Sanchez is a wonder

I honestly wonder whether many of you guys even watch football. The man was a ROOKIE, he had ups and downs. That's normal.

Elway had 7 TDs and 14 INTs as a rookie
Steve Young in his first 2 years in the NFL(after getting pro experience in the USFL) had 11 TDs and 21 INTs
Troy Aikman 9 TDs 18 INTs
...

If Sanchez was a dolphin you guys would be making Marino comparisons.


Sanchez only got to the playoffs because the Jets played teams with back ups, to close the season. And they only reached the AFC Title game, because the San Diego kicker choked.

"The odds of opposing kickers missing five straight field goals, which happened in the postseason, was 5,292-to-1." The quote was taken from the Football Outsider's yearbook via ESPN's AFC East blog.

So please get off of Sanchez's jockstarp. He ain't that good. He was just lucky last season. We'll see what happens when really kicks him in the teeth this season.

He got to the playoffs b/c we won 9 games and beat all the teams we needed to beat while teams like Miami choked when they had destiny in their hands.

I love how you guys can whine about SD and Cincy missing kicks yet ignore that our Kicker missed 2 kicks in the Title game or how our kicker missed 2 makeable FGs in the final mins in the '04 div rd which cost us another title game app. I guess it only applies when it happens in our favor:rolleyes2:


Yes Sanchez sucks, not everyone can be as great as Chad henne. obviously you guys are poised to win 4 SBs in the next decade w/ a QB who never won a big game in colleg or the pros and a head coach who has never been a part of a postseason victory. The decade of the dolphin begins!

zackmandude63
07-08-2010, 12:06 PM
He got to the playoffs b/c we won 9 games and beat all the teams we needed to beat while teams like Miami choked when they had destiny in their hands.

I love how you guys can whine about SD and Cincy missing kicks yet ignore that our Kicker missed 2 kicks in the Title game or how our kicker missed 2 makeable FGs in the final mins in the '04 div rd which cost us another title game app. I guess it only applies when it happens in our favor:rolleyes2:


Yes Sanchez sucks, not everyone can be as great as Chad henne. obviously you guys are poised to win 4 SBs in the next decade w/ a QB who never won a big game in colleg or the pros and a head coach who has never been a part of a postseason victory. The decade of the dolphin begins!

Sanchez and the Jest would have never even sniffed the playoffs if they had to face Manning in Week 16 intead of Jim Sorgi

cyberpaki
07-08-2010, 12:15 PM
Troy Aikman 9 TDs 18 INTs

Troy Aikman had a career QB rating of 81.6 with his TD to INT ratio being 1.48 TDs for every interception. Sanchez is indeed on track for that.
But that doesn't matter, because Shonn Greene is going to put up Emmitt Smith like numbers right?

nyjunc
07-08-2010, 12:20 PM
Sanchez and the Jest would have never even sniffed the playoffs if they had to face Manning in Week 16 intead of Jim Sorgi

We did face Manning- for 2 1/2 qtrs and only trailed by 5 points then we got Curtis Painter for a qtr and a half. We got a break and took advantage of it much like you guys did w/ your weak sched in 2008. You guys also got both NO and Indy at home while we had to face them on the road. It's luck of the draw.


Troy Aikman had a career QB rating of 81.6 with his TD to INT ratio being 1.48 TDs for every interception. Sanchez is indeed on track for that.
But that doesn't matter, because Shonn Greene is going to put up Emmitt Smith like numbers right?

Does anyone understand he was a rookie? QB is the most difficult position to step in day 1 as a rookie and succeed. yeah it's happened a handful of times but it is extremely rare. Sanchez had the best postseason of any rookie QB but that gets ignored, you'd rather focus on a few awful games he had during the reg season.

nyjunc
07-08-2010, 12:23 PM
Troy Aikman had a career QB rating of 81.6 with his TD to INT ratio being 1.48 TDs for every interception. Sanchez is indeed on track for that.
But that doesn't matter, because Shonn Greene is going to put up Emmitt Smith like numbers right?

Aikman had a 55 rating as a rookie, sanchez 63. Aikman didn't have a positive TD to INT ratio until year 3. In Aikman's first postseason game he had a 63 rating, Sanchez had a 139.4 rating.

I'm NOT saying Sanchez will be as good as Aikman but you have to show both sides not just the bad ones. Anyone who has watched Jamarcus Russell and Mark Sanchez and thinks they are on a similar path just does not understand the game of football.

zackmandude63
07-08-2010, 12:27 PM
We did face Manning- for 2 1/2 qtrs and only trailed by 5 points then we got Curtis Painter for a qtr and a half. We got a break and took advantage of it much like you guys did w/ your weak sched in 2008. You guys also got both NO and Indy at home while we had to face them on the road. It's luck of the draw.


As I said, had you guys faced Manning the entire game, you wouldv'e lost.

Manning > Painter

nyjunc
07-08-2010, 12:30 PM
As I said, had you guys faced Manning the entire game, you wouldv'e lost.

Manning > Painter

We probably would have but we'll never know. The bottom line is we won and then made a deep postseason run. You can whine all you want but w/ 3 games to play you guys had destiny in your hands and you choked losing to two teams we beat already during the season.

JETSJETSJETS
07-08-2010, 12:33 PM
wow he took time off from beating women to talk smack thats cool

I guess Marshall is still busy beating up a few women.

cyberpaki
07-08-2010, 12:43 PM
Aikman had a 55 rating as a rookie, sanchez 63. Aikman didn't have a positive TD to INT ratio until year 3. In Aikman's first postseason game he had a 63 rating, Sanchez had a 139.4 rating.

I'm NOT saying Sanchez will be as good as Aikman but you have to show both sides not just the bad ones. Anyone who has watched Jamarcus Russell and Mark Sanchez and thinks they are on a similar path just does not understand the game of football.

It's a statistical comparison, if I'm trying to make a point I'd cite examples like Jamarcus Russell or Ryan Leaf, whereas if you're trying to make a point, you'd cite John Elway or Steve Young (which is equally as outrageous as you think a comparison to Russell is) , when the reality is, it is just as rare to land a hall of famer, as it is to land a flop the likes of Russell or Leaf (Actually I'd say there are more flops than hall of famers), and it's all just speculation anyway.

It could just as easily be said that anyone who has watched Steve Young and Mark Sanchez and thinks they are on a similar path just does not understand the game of football.

ojmcduffy
07-08-2010, 12:49 PM
see the stats dont matter because troy aikman wasnt gay and sanchez is

JETSJETSJETS
07-08-2010, 01:21 PM
Sanchez only got to the playoffs because the Jets played teams with back ups, to close the season. And they only reached the AFC Title game, because the San Diego kicker choked.

"The odds of opposing kickers missing five straight field goals, which happened in the postseason, was 5,292-to-1." The quote was taken from the Football Outsider's yearbook via ESPN's AFC East blog.

So please get off of Sanchez's jockstarp. He ain't that good. He was just lucky last season. We'll see what happens when really kicks him in the teeth this season.

I really don't give a cr@p what the odds are of missing five straight FGs. Even if Bengals made both the FGs, they would have lost 24-20.

As for the Chargers, Nate Kaeding missed a 36 yarder. He also missed a 57 yarder, hardly a FG attempt. He then missed a 40 yarder. Even if Nate Kaeding made all three FGs including the 57 yarder, the score would have been 17-16 at the third FG. Jets would have had the ball with about 4 minutes to go. Who is to say Jets weren't going to keep the ball for four minutes? Jets had a 10 point lead and rushed three times to make the Chargers use their TOs. They didn't even try to pass incase an incompletion stops the clock. It was a 10-point game, enough of a cushion to force the Chargers into using their TOs regardless of how many yards Jets gained. Had it been a 1 point game, I'm pretty sure the game plan would have changed and the Jets would have made an attempt to gain a first down. Of course, thats something we wouldn't be able to tell, but you can't play the "IF" game in the NFL.

And of course, you don't see the writer posting the odds of making a 36 yarder, a 57 yarder and a 40 yarder in pressure situations on consecutive occasions. He also failed to mention what the odds were of a rookie QB winning two playoff games on the road against division champs.

Jets did play backups, but that doesn't mean they were out of the games by the time a 'FEW' opposing starters were pulled. In fact, Bengals were shut down WITH their starters, but of course Bengals also limped into playoffs while Chargers always choke. Guess what, who made em choke?

JETSJETSJETS
07-08-2010, 01:37 PM
It's a statistical comparison, if I'm trying to make a point I'd cite examples like Jamarcus Russell or Ryan Leaf, whereas if you're trying to make a point, you'd cite John Elway or Steve Young (which is equally as outrageous as you think a comparison to Russell is) , when the reality is, it is just as rare to land a hall of famer, as it is to land a flop the likes of Russell or Leaf (Actually I'd say there are more flops than hall of famers), and it's all just speculation anyway.

It could just as easily be said that anyone who has watched Steve Young and Mark Sanchez and thinks they are on a similar path just does not understand the game of football.

Seriously, how would you compare Sanchez with Jamarcus Russell?

And how do you compare Sanchez's 18 games 2983 yards, 16 TDs, and 22 ints to Ryan Leafs? Ryans rookie season was a disaster. 10 games, 1,244 yards, 2 TDs and 15 ints his rookie season. In Ryans first 20 games, he had 3,172 yards, 13 TDs, 33 ints and QB rating in the 40s.

nyjunc
07-08-2010, 02:16 PM
It's a statistical comparison, if I'm trying to make a point I'd cite examples like Jamarcus Russell or Ryan Leaf, whereas if you're trying to make a point, you'd cite John Elway or Steve Young (which is equally as outrageous as you think a comparison to Russell is) , when the reality is, it is just as rare to land a hall of famer, as it is to land a flop the likes of Russell or Leaf (Actually I'd say there are more flops than hall of famers), and it's all just speculation anyway.

It could just as easily be said that anyone who has watched Steve Young and Mark Sanchez and thinks they are on a similar path just does not understand the game of football.

Steve Young was a million times worse than anchez his first couple of seasons until he forced his way out to a great team in SF and got to play w/ the greatest WR of all time to build his HOF resume.

Also, I never said he was Steve Young or any of those guys. I just wish people could read.


see the stats dont matter because troy aikman wasnt gay and sanchez is

That's funny b/c there were more Troy is gay rumors than there are mark is gay rumors.

bpackers13
07-08-2010, 02:27 PM
I honestly wonder whether many of you guys even watch football. The man was a ROOKIE, he had ups and downs. That's normal.

Elway had 7 TDs and 14 INTs as a rookie
Steve Young in his first 2 years in the NFL(after getting pro experience in the USFL) had 11 TDs and 21 INTs
Troy Aikman 9 TDs 18 INTs




I noticed you didn't put up Marino's rookie stats. Where are they?

nyjunc
07-08-2010, 02:36 PM
I noticed you didn't put up Marino's rookie stats. Where are they?

You do realize Marino is one of the rare exceptions, right?

and just for fun I'll put up marino's rookie postseason stats vs. sanchez:D:

Marino: 15-25, 193 yds, 2 TDs, 2 INTs, 77.6 rating, 0-1 record losing at home to Seattle
Sanchez: 41-68, 539 yds, 4 TDs, 2 INTs, 92.7 rating, 2-1 record including 2 road wins(Marino had ONE road playoff win in his career)

bpackers13
07-08-2010, 02:43 PM
You do realize Marino is one of the rare exceptions, right?

and just for fun I'll put up marino's rookie postseason stats vs. sanchez:D:

Marino: 15-25, 193 yds, 2 TDs, 2 INTs, 77.6 rating, 0-1 record losing at home to Seattle
Sanchez: 41-68, 539 yds, 4 TDs, 2 INTs, 92.7 rating, 2-1 record including 2 road wins(Marino had ONE road playoff win in his career)

You are absolutely 100% wrong!!!!!! 1983 was Dan's rookie season. in that year his stats were as follows.........
11 games, 7 wins, 173comp 296atts, 58.4 comp %, 2,210 yds, 20td's, 6ints. Nice try man. Sanchez doesnt compare to Dan even as a rookie!!!!!!!!

nyjunc
07-08-2010, 02:47 PM
You are absolutely 100% wrong!!!!!! 1983 was Dan's rookie season. in that year his stats were as follows.........
11 games, 7 wins, 173comp 296atts, 58.4 comp %, 2,210 yds, 20td's, 6ints. Nice try man. Sanchez doesnt compare to Dan even as a rookie!!!!!!!!

Wow! I am dumbfounded. I wrote ROOKIE POSTSEASON STATS!

Dan's regular season was outstanding, he is the exception along w/ guys like Roethlisberger, Flacco and Ryan.

JETSJETSJETS
07-08-2010, 02:59 PM
You are absolutely 100% wrong!!!!!! 1983 was Dan's rookie season. in that year his stats were as follows.........
11 games, 7 wins, 173comp 296atts, 58.4 comp %, 2,210 yds, 20td's, 6ints. Nice try man. Sanchez doesnt compare to Dan even as a rookie!!!!!!!!

Is he even comparing Sanchez to Dan Marino?

bpackers13
07-08-2010, 03:04 PM
Is he even comparing Sanchez to Dan Marino?

am i even talking to you?

nyjunc
07-08-2010, 03:08 PM
Is he even comparing Sanchez to Dan Marino?

:lol: I'm convinced most of these guys do not read my posts, they just see Jet fan in the username and make up their own posts:lol:

MiZFiT
07-08-2010, 03:13 PM
:lol: I'm convinced most of these guys do not read my posts, they just see Jet fan in the username and make up their own posts:lol:

On FinHeaven, that's understandable. Some people on here think that they have superior knowledge over all of mankind.

cyberpaki
07-08-2010, 04:49 PM
Also, I never said he was Steve Young or any of those guys. I just wish people could read.



Elway had 7 TDs and 14 INTs as a rookie
Steve Young in his first 2 years in the NFL(after getting pro experience in the USFL) had 11 TDs and 21 INTs
Troy Aikman 9 TDs 18 INTs

I don't think anyone has actually said Sanchez is the next anything, statistical parallels were the only things being discussed.


I just wish people could read.

Agreed.

sm0kinfins
07-09-2010, 07:00 AM
:lol: I'm convinced most of these guys do not read my posts, they just see Jet fan in the username and make up their own posts:lol:

No, they only have to see you're name and knowing your track record for stupidty they have no reason to read you posts.

stupid stupid rat creatures!

sm0kinfins
07-09-2010, 07:30 AM
Yeah he mentioned Holmes ignoring all of Marshall's problems. Take your own advice.

It's hysterical how you guys call out other players when your team is full of thugs and you lead the league in arrests this offseason. Santonio Holmes IS a jerk but so is Marshall. For some reason you guys act like Holmes is a jerk but Marshall was misunderstood in denver and is this great guy.

So he mentioned him by not mentioning him? Are you really this dense? Can ANYONE really be this dense? Do yourself a favor and read your posts before hitting the "post reply" button. Ask yourself "do I sound like a complete D-bag?" If the answer is "yes" (it usually will be) than just don't bother posting at all.

nyjunc
07-09-2010, 07:49 AM
No, they only have to see you're name and knowing your track record for stupidty they have no reason to read you posts.

stupid stupid rat creatures!

:lol: the irony:lol:

DisturbedShifty
07-09-2010, 07:52 AM
I respectfully request that this thread be moved to either the Depths or AFC East forum. Thank you.

sm0kinfins
07-10-2010, 05:30 AM
:lol: the irony:lol:

You may want to look up the definition of the word. You clearly aren't familiar with it.