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Lee2000
07-10-2010, 05:47 PM
just asking. Any thoughts appreciated.

X-Pacolypse
07-10-2010, 05:54 PM
I know that there's been interest in BYU's Harvey Unga, but I don't think they'll use a pick in the Supplemental Draft.

Nublar7
07-10-2010, 06:00 PM
From what I know, there are going to be only four players in this year's draft.

RB Harvey Unga
RB Quentin Castille
RB Vanness Emokpae
DT Joshua Price-Brent

Word has it that Unga will likely get drafted and Price-Brent has an outside shot at being selected. Castille and Emokpae will go undrafted and will have a chance to catch on as a free agent with some team.

I think the only player the Dolphins will even consider giving up a draft pick for would be Unga. However, I would say the odds are very low that they would actually make the selection. I could see them putting in a 6th or 7th round pick claim and hoping he falls that far. Realistically he is probably going to go in round 5 but might even slip into round 4.

I think with Brown, Williams, Cobbs, Hilliard and Sheets currently battling, there just is no room to take a chance on Unga with a draft pick. If there is a shock and he goes undrafted, they would probably bang down his door with a contract offer. Don't expect the Dolphins to make any selections this year.

I will say this though, keep an eye on Price-Brent as a possible undrafted free agent signing. Would be worth a look maybe as a possible NT. 6-2, 321 pounds.

FinAtic8480
07-10-2010, 06:07 PM
Take this with a grain of salt, but I have heard they really like him and Ireland has had discussions with him, but I have no idea if they would draft him. Guy is an interesting prospect and one I really like.

bobw999
07-10-2010, 06:20 PM
Could someone explain or give a link that explains this Supplemental Draft? I know we had supplemental draft picks but I thought that was part of the draft in April. I'm confused.....

EDIT: N/M http://football.about.com/od/miscinformation/a/supplementdraft.htm

PhinsPhan11
07-10-2010, 10:00 PM
I don't think they will use a pick even though they are interested in a couple people.

Gadsden86
07-11-2010, 09:43 PM
I wouldnt mind seeing the DT come in Undrafted. If for some reason we go after unga i think we will try and trade sheets for a late pick or just dump him. Having 7 or so backs is a lot in camp.

hooshoops
07-11-2010, 10:26 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81912e4e/article/teams-believing-in-convenient-truths-as-camps-approach

his first nfl.com article...interesting to me that he doesn't name chris clemons in the free safety competition...

TPD1479
07-11-2010, 10:28 PM
ok so what are odds of us getting him?

hooshoops
07-11-2010, 10:30 PM
i don't know but lombardi says he thinks it could cost a 3rd round pick...seems too pricey to me

Spesh
07-11-2010, 10:37 PM
The Dolphins are going to have a great year. Each time I review tape, I marvel at their execution. With a few more offensive playmakers, they will be tough to beat.


Even though i felt our offense was alright last year(though of course i will always want it to be better), i was a bit surprised to see our play execution so high. I'll settle for 4th when were only behind the Patriots, Saints, and Vikings.

hooshoops
07-11-2010, 10:42 PM
i think we had such good execution cause we ran a lot of the short passing game and didn't put ourselves in 3rd and 10 or long very often...it seemed like we almost always had 3rd down but that it was a manageable distance despite not having an alpha receiver in the passing game...very methodical time consuming drives...i think the execution on o and the potential for quick strike chunk yardage plays only gets better with b marshall in toe...guy breaks a ton of tackles...something that we really didn't have last year...plus brings a real red zone weapon to the table...

Fintastic2124
07-11-2010, 11:03 PM
I would really like to have a look at this dude.

PhinsPhan11
07-11-2010, 11:34 PM
He seems like a good player, but a 3rd is a bit pricey for me.

josekareh
07-11-2010, 11:39 PM
Listen, we don't have a second, so if we are picking our 3rd ahead of time he should be worth it!!!!

FinAtic8480
07-12-2010, 12:05 AM
Lombardi is saying the same thing I have been told about Unga, the Fins have spoken to him on several occassions and are extremely high on him. With Miami possibly losing Ronnie & Ricky next year they could pull the trigger. Preper for the Dolphins to carry 4 running backs again this year if Unga is selected.

Won't be the first time the Tuna drafts a player in the supplemental draft, remember Drew Henson.

sinPHIN
07-12-2010, 12:07 AM
i think 3rd is to pricey aswell. we already have 5 talented backs and next years draft is full of good backs, that are better than unga

PhinsPhan11
07-12-2010, 01:02 AM
i think 3rd is to pricey aswell. we already have 5 talented backs and next years draft is full of good backs, that are better than unga
I agree, we have good running backs now and can get new ones in the draft next year. Even though Unga is a good player, but we can do better.

mmikel30
07-12-2010, 01:26 AM
please don't draft this guy unless its a 6th or 7th

Dphins4me
07-12-2010, 04:43 AM
Won't be the first time the Tuna drafts a player in the supplemental draft, remember Drew Henson.Henson was not drafted by the Cowboys, nor in the Supplemental draft.

He was drafted by Houston in the 6th Rd of the 2003 draft.

He was traded to the Cowboys in Mar. of 2004

Wildbill3
07-12-2010, 07:53 AM
Henson was not drafted by the Cowboys, nor in the Supplemental draft.

He was drafted by Houston in the 6th Rd of the 2003 draft.

He was traded to the Cowboys in Mar. of 2004
You're correct. I can't find where parcells ever drafted someone in the supplemental draft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Draft


More news on this Unga.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2010/7/11/1564061/supplemental-draft-approaching-on

@@@
07-12-2010, 09:04 AM
Unga highlight tape looks nothing special to me, vision is nice but don't think he shows much elusiveness, balance is poor and no breakaway speed. 6th round tops

Tunaphish429
07-12-2010, 09:14 AM
3rd is way too high for a running back...

hooshoops
07-12-2010, 09:24 AM
i don't think a 3rd is too high for a rb...theres gonna be some good ones who will require high draft picks next year...i just think a 3rd is way too high for THIS rb...way too high

ckparrothead
07-12-2010, 09:39 AM
It's possible just because if you look at next year's seniors at RB then you don't see a very exciting class. The only guy with a full physical package looks to me to be Brandon Saine and he was just recently rated by the national scouting service the NFL uses for preseason rankings as a UDFA. I think they're nuts but obviously he's not a homerun prospect. The Oklahoma kid looks a little too Reggie Bush-ish to me and some folks question whether the Penn State kid is a little too much one cut and done. I haven't really evaluated the whole class yet and looked at which guys have shown tremendous durability but I know Saine hasn't yet, and if the others haven't then you could have an altogether scary situation where you may lose both Ronnie Brown (free agency) and Ricky Williams (retirement) and to replace them you have to dip into a draft where curiously the juniors decided to stay in school (rookie wage scale). At that point Miami would have to hope Lex Hilliard and/or Pat Cobbs can shoulder a load as one of the two main backs. and if that guy is Cobbs then they have to find someone that can fill his role which they didn't really adequately do a year ago.

I wouldn't forecast a 3rd though. I just don't see this regime going into a draft with zero picks on the second day, even considering their proclivities toward moving down and trading players to acquire more picks.

hooshoops
07-12-2010, 09:53 AM
evan royster looks to me like a guy who fits a zbs system a one cut and get downhill system like denver...

demarco murray i just don't trust to stay healthy...if i'm recalling correctly it seems like that guy stays nicked up too much for my taste and that's in college...

PhinsPhan11
07-12-2010, 10:02 AM
Unga highlight tape looks nothing special to me, vision is nice but don't think he shows much elusiveness, balance is poor and no breakaway speed. 6th round tops
I couldn't agree more.

ckparrothead
07-12-2010, 11:14 AM
I hadn't thought so before but after looking into it more I could actually see this regime liking Noel Devine. The guy has played in 38 of his last 39 games. He's had an average of 17.2 carries per game the last two years. That will only continue this year and if he stays healthy again then he will have shown the special level of durability that this coaching staff demands. He may not be very big but as I said before this staff doesn't seem to apply rigid size guidelines to the runners that they prefer because they like to have both the ketchup and the mustard, the big bodied guys that pound it up the middle and the darters that gash defenses for those "chunk yards" they always talk about.

If you look closely he's got "the makeup". He holds football camps for kids back home I think three years running. I don't remember him getting into serious trouble, certainly not anything that affected his game eligibility. He's going to be a college graduate which is a big Parcells thing. He shocked everyone by deciding to stay in school for his senior year even after he'd just played 38 games and had 520 carries for 3,381 yards and 23 TDs, because he was committed to working hard and trying to win a championship. He's a leader on the team.

They would view Noel as a return guy, a part time running back, the guy they can send out on pass routes, etc. People may think that their supposedly rigid size requirements would knock him out but they do studies to see which position those size requirements mean a lot for and which positions they don't, and to me with the list of running backs and offensive players I've seen them be interested in over the years, I think they would have no problem adding one of those smaller, speedier guys if he showed them the right level of durability and makeup...which to date, Noel Devine has.

And if you have a Noel Devine you could pair him with a Harvey Unga for a thunder and lightning type approach, and you have two guys that you can generally count on to stay healthy and durable.

RobertHorry
07-12-2010, 11:22 AM
It's possible just because if you look at next year's seniors at RB then you don't see a very exciting class. The only guy with a full physical package looks to me to be Brandon Saine and he was just recently rated by the national scouting service the NFL uses for preseason rankings as a UDFA. I think they're nuts but obviously he's not a homerun prospect. The Oklahoma kid looks a little too Reggie Bush-ish to me and some folks question whether the Penn State kid is a little too much one cut and done. I haven't really evaluated the whole class yet and looked at which guys have shown tremendous durability but I know Saine hasn't yet, and if the others haven't then you could have an altogether scary situation where you may lose both Ronnie Brown (free agency) and Ricky Williams (retirement) and to replace them you have to dip into a draft where curiously the juniors decided to stay in school (rookie wage scale). At that point Miami would have to hope Lex Hilliard and/or Pat Cobbs can shoulder a load as one of the two main backs. and if that guy is Cobbs then they have to find someone that can fill his role which they didn't really adequately do a year ago.

I wouldn't forecast a 3rd though. I just don't see this regime going into a draft with zero picks on the second day, even considering their proclivities toward moving down and trading players to acquire more picks.

I played Royster(Penn State RB) in high school. He is one cut and done, but also has the ability to cut back and change it up. But most of the time its one cut and done. I'm not sure if he's changed or not, I haven't watched that many PSU games.

RobertHorry
07-12-2010, 11:24 AM
I hadn't thought so before but after looking into it more I could actually see this regime liking Noel Devine. The guy has played in 38 of his last 39 games. He's had an average of 17.2 carries per game the last two years. That will only continue this year and if he stays healthy again then he will have shown the special level of durability that this coaching staff demands. He may not be very big but as I said before this staff doesn't seem to apply rigid size guidelines to the runners that they prefer because they like to have both the ketchup and the mustard, the big bodied guys that pound it up the middle and the darters that gash defenses for those "chunk yards" they always talk about.

If you look closely he's got "the makeup". He holds football camps for kids back home I think three years running. I don't remember him getting into serious trouble, certainly not anything that affected his game eligibility. He's going to be a college graduate which is a big Parcells thing. He shocked everyone by deciding to stay in school for his senior year even after he'd just played 38 games and had 520 carries for 3,381 yards and 23 TDs, because he was committed to working hard and trying to win a championship. He's a leader on the team.

They would view Noel as a return guy, a part time running back, the guy they can send out on pass routes, etc. People may think that their supposedly rigid size requirements would knock him out but they do studies to see which position those size requirements mean a lot for and which positions they don't, and to me with the list of running backs and offensive players I've seen them be interested in over the years, I think they would have no problem adding one of those smaller, speedier guys if he showed them the right level of durability and makeup...which to date, Noel Devine has.

And if you have a Noel Devine you could pair him with a Harvey Unga for a thunder and lightning type approach, and you have two guys that you can generally count on to stay healthy and durable.

Devine is a beast. Before I transferred out of University of Pittsburgh, I watched him live a bunch of times. That man has talent.

hooshoops
07-12-2010, 11:26 AM
if we were looking for a noel devine type i'd much rather we had moved up for cj spiller in the last draft...anyways...

Mr. Magoo
07-12-2010, 11:33 AM
Devine has rare quickness and good vision but gets caught from behind too often for my tastes. Plus I don't see a lot in the way of tackle breaking ability. The spread really helps him out at West Virginia in giving him space in the middle of the field. He's definitely more of a Brandon James (without the blazing top end speed) than a Dexter McCluster imo. I'd be surprised if he was more than a 5th round pick.

hooshoops
07-12-2010, 11:46 AM
i'm not a fan of that offense either for projecting pros...

j-off-her-doll
07-12-2010, 11:49 AM
Really hoping K. Sheets can blossom. Our RB situation is shaky at best - developed into one of our major uncertainties heading into this season.

hooshoops
07-12-2010, 11:53 AM
i don't think there's any question that we need to bring in a young fresh rb next year...but i also don't think we should give ronnie brown a long term extension...and furthermore i don't think patrick cobbs could handle a heavy workload 10 carries per game would be too much...and ricky...how much longer is that gonna last

we need young blood

23EmilioVasquez
07-12-2010, 11:56 AM
he runs like a FB not a RB

ckparrothead
07-12-2010, 11:57 AM
They liked C.J. Spiller and they liked Dexter McCluster but it wasn't time for them yet because they had other things to take care of and they still have Ricky and Ronnie. I think they're banking on Ricky signing to play another year in 2011 to be honest. Ronnie will be allowed to walk. I've always insisted on that. If they added a Noel Devine to that mix you could have a fairly explosive mix.

hooshoops
07-12-2010, 12:01 PM
i think they plan on having ricky come back for 1 more year also...i just think that at this stage when he gets the lions share of the carries he wears down fast...and i guess its to be expected...10-12 carries per game i think is when he's at his best...anything more not good

if ronnie was interested in coming back for 1 year by all means do it if he stays healthy this year just don't go throw $20 mil guaranteed plus on a say 5 year deal at him at a then 29 years old...i don't think that's smart

and i think i read if ronnie did walk we'd likely receive a 3rd round compensatory pick in compensation...works for me

ckparrothead
07-12-2010, 12:09 PM
There's a lot that goes into that compensatory pick. Not least of which being what free agents we sign that year, how much money Ronnie Brown gets from his new team, how many games he starts and how well he does in his new home.

You don't bank on that 3rd round compensatory, no way.

I don't know they'll even want him back on a cheaper short term deal. Any given year, I'm not sure they believe they can trust him to play 16 games. They don't like guys like that. Justin Smiley would still be here if they could accept that kind of uncertainty and just chalk it up to a "any game he plays is a bonus" line of thinking.

hooshoops
07-12-2010, 12:13 PM
i was working under the assumption that he got a long term big money deal elsewhere...but good points...i just kinda assumed if he got paid well elsewhere we'd get a comp pick reflective of the contract in some way...

but it was purely an assumption on my part...nothing really to back it up...maybe i read it on here from somebody and it sounded right...not sure

and i agree with you these guys don't like players they can't count on...and unfortunately thats exactly what ronnie brown has become

ckparrothead
07-12-2010, 12:30 PM
It's going to really tick some people off around here when they see the deal Ronnie signs elsewhere. It won't be an outlandish deal I don't think, and there will be some fan backlash about not bringing him back...much as you see backlash at not bringing Jason Taylor back.

hooshoops
07-12-2010, 12:37 PM
well if he gets hurt again this year and ends the season on ir AGAIN it won't matter to me what he signs for elsewhere...that will be the last straw for me...great player no doubt...but can't help us if he's not on the field when the games matter

i'll be surprised though if he does stay healthy and he doesn't get at least $15 mil guaranteed from someone...

72champagne
07-12-2010, 12:38 PM
my magic 8 ball says ronnie & ricky will be back for 2011, but it isn't as reliable as that octopus.

hooshoops
07-12-2010, 12:42 PM
and watch out for new england...i could see them being ALL OVER ronnie brown if he came free...and letting lawrence maroney walk

and he'd probably stay healthy for them...figures

Clipse
07-12-2010, 12:49 PM
If Ronnie has a great year it wouldn't shock to me to see them slap the franchise tag on him for a year, and maybe look to trade him.

hooshoops
07-12-2010, 12:56 PM
i could see the franchise tag in play as well...provided he stays healthy

Clipse
07-12-2010, 12:59 PM
i could see the franchise tag in play as well...provided he stays healthy

If he gets injured again, I see no way he's in a Dolphins uniform in 2011.

ckparrothead
07-12-2010, 01:02 PM
We have no idea what the new CBA will look like and whether there will even be a franchise tag. They're talking about 18 game seasons (which will only put even more emphasis on durability), they're talking expanded rosters, they're talking rookie wage scales, they're talking about HGH tests (the CFL has adopted a blood test), they're talking about doing away with franchise tags, the NFLPA wants rookie contracts maxed out at 3 years (NFL is rejecting that one). All kinds of issues on the table.

But overall no I don't see Ronnie here again in 2011 on a franchise tag almost no matter what he does this year.

FinAtic8480
07-12-2010, 01:06 PM
We have no idea what the new CBA will look like and whether there will even be a franchise tag. They're talking about 18 game seasons (which will only put even more emphasis on durability), they're talking expanded rosters, they're talking rookie wage scales, they're talking about HGH tests (the CFL has adopted a blood test), they're talking about doing away with franchise tags, the NFLPA wants rookie contracts maxed out at 3 years (NFL is rejecting that one). All kinds of issues on the table.

But overall no I don't see Ronnie here again in 2011 on a franchise tag almost no matter what he does this year.

Gotta disagree with you on that one CK, if Brown has a good season and there is a Franchise tag I think he gets it. Remember Ronnie is not only our starting RB, the guy is Miami's triggerman in the WC, a position that not Ricky nor Pat White have proven to be effective at.

hooshoops
07-12-2010, 01:07 PM
so lets just say he stays healthy and the new cba pays a rb on a franchise tag (again...assuming there is still a franchise tag) somewhere in the $7 mil range for 1 year...

you don't think it would be worth keeping him 1 more year under that #??? or at least tagging him and seeing what he could bring in trade...

it's a tough one for me...and i don't know what else we have coming up for free agency next year who could warrant it more...

hooshoops
07-12-2010, 01:09 PM
i personally hope we use the wildcat a whole lot less this year...i think we have the horses now where we can play in the base and put points on the board...i just think we kill momentum too much with the cat sometimes and teams are much more prepared for it now...

b marshall imo means less wildcat to me...more running room for the rbs more open field area for the te's over the middle etc...

less wildcat please...

utahphinsfan
07-12-2010, 01:13 PM
He seems like a good player, but a 3rd is a bit pricey for me.

Unga was BYU's best player last yr. It was like watching Mike Alstott in a Run & Shoot who was not used enough.

The Cougars thought they were BYU of the Lavell Edwards era or the St Louis Rams of earlier this decade.

I honestly don't see HU working well in Miami's scheme. The Saints or dare I say New England would be ideal.

luduporcu
07-12-2010, 01:13 PM
I hadn't thought so before but after looking into it more I could actually see this regime liking Noel Devine. The guy has played in 38 of his last 39 games. He's had an average of 17.2 carries per game the last two years. That will only continue this year and if he stays healthy again then he will have shown the special level of durability that this coaching staff demands. He may not be very big but as I said before this staff doesn't seem to apply rigid size guidelines to the runners that they prefer because they like to have both the ketchup and the mustard, the big bodied guys that pound it up the middle and the darters that gash defenses for those "chunk yards" they always talk about.

If you look closely he's got "the makeup". He holds football camps for kids back home I think three years running. I don't remember him getting into serious trouble, certainly not anything that affected his game eligibility. He's going to be a college graduate which is a big Parcells thing. He shocked everyone by deciding to stay in school for his senior year even after he'd just played 38 games and had 520 carries for 3,381 yards and 23 TDs, because he was committed to working hard and trying to win a championship. He's a leader on the team.

They would view Noel as a return guy, a part time running back, the guy they can send out on pass routes, etc. People may think that their supposedly rigid size requirements would knock him out but they do studies to see which position those size requirements mean a lot for and which positions they don't, and to me with the list of running backs and offensive players I've seen them be interested in over the years, I think they would have no problem adding one of those smaller, speedier guys if he showed them the right level of durability and makeup...which to date, Noel Devine has.

And if you have a Noel Devine you could pair him with a Harvey Unga for a thunder and lightning type approach, and you have two guys that you can generally count on to stay healthy and durable.

Just to add a further thought, DAVE MEGGETT sort of defined the present-day "change-of-pace HB", while playing for PARCELLS' NY GIANTS. At that time, JOE MORRIS (5'8", 207 out of Syracuse) was the "featured back" and was absolutely capable of running inside. On MNF, JOHN MADDEN described him as "short, not small". What are DEVINE's vital statistics, if any of you know?

utahphinsfan
07-12-2010, 01:19 PM
i personally hope we use the wildcat a whole lot less this year...i think we have the horses now where we can play in the base and put points on the board...i just think we kill momentum too much with the cat sometimes and teams are much more prepared for it now...

b marshall imo means less wildcat to me...more running room for the rbs more open field area for the te's over the middle etc...

less wildcat please...

The 'cat will IMO be used less. However, a hybrid could be used where you can run a traditional offebse or the WC out of the same formation.

Imagine... Henne & Ronnie about 4 to 5 yds deep behind Center and next to each other. Marshall would be where Penny was in '08.

The line would be unbalanced to the right. On the left side, Hartline would be on the LOS and Ricky in the slot to run the jet sweep.

hooshoops
07-12-2010, 01:22 PM
the way i look at it is in reviewing b marshalls games last year in denver he caught the ball a ton within 5 yards of the los or even behind the los etc and i think i'd rather get him involved in the short passing game and on reverses etc out of the base than use the wildcat as much as we did last year...i mean he's essentially a rb on the perimeter with the ball in his hands...breaks tackles like crazy...

i do think though that if we did use the cat some marshall would be a great downfield and crackback blocker and we could have some huge advantages throwing the ball to him down the field...provided someone can deliver a pass

FinAtic8480
07-12-2010, 01:35 PM
Unga shares teams are looking at him as a RB, he's studied @SJ39 and would consider it an honor to be in same backfield

www.twitter.com/StullySTL


At 5'11 and 244lbs, Unga has the size to move to fullback, however, it's expected that most teams will keep him at running back.

"Most of them have been telling me I'm going to be playing running back," said Unga.

"I can be the thrid down back--and that can 3rd and short or 3rd and long, they think it'd be great to have a big guy like me even on a 3rd and long play where if they need to throw me the ball they know I'll catch it and make the best of it. There's a lot of different things I believe teams will be able to use me for."

Unga caught 92 passes over his last three seasons with the Cougars.

St. Louis was one of 20 teams in attendance for Harvey's workout last week.

And while it's clear the Rams have some interest, any back that is brought in will be on the depth chart behind Steven Jackson.

That's no issue for Unga.

http://www.101espn.com/post/52504_unga_already_learning_from_jackson

I don't know where to post this, but the Fins have been rumored to be one of four teams to have serious interest in Unga and if drafted it seems he will come to play running back. I personally have been told Miami is seriously interested and Ireland has met with Unga several times, but there is no way in knowing if Miami will draft him or not. Good prospect none the less.

hooshoops
07-12-2010, 01:38 PM
a guy doesn't ever want to pidgeon hole himself as only a fb...

dolpns13
07-12-2010, 01:45 PM
Lombardi is saying the same thing I have been told about Unga, the Fins have spoken to him on several occassions and are extremely high on him. With Miami possibly losing Ronnie & Ricky next year they could pull the trigger. Preper for the Dolphins to carry 4 running backs again this year if Unga is selected.

Won't be the first time the Tuna drafts a player in the supplemental draft, remember Drew Henson.
I sure hope not... A 4.7? Hell never get passed the LOS

ckparrothead
07-12-2010, 01:45 PM
Well done on the reporting.

Yeah I wouldn't expect him to be moved to FB full time. Maybe some sort of F-Back role. Hell even Pat Cobbs has come out on the wing and blocked, and he's barely over 200 lbs.

Just to recap what I've been saying about Harvey Unga in case this turns into the Harvey Unga Thread until Thursday's Supplemental Draft, Miami's attraction to him has to do with his having played in 38 of his last 39 games at BYU, and his having averaged 20.9 touches per game over that time period.

To the Miami Dolphins, who place an emphasis on durability, this is an extraordinary show of durability and ability to play through minor nicks and injuries, and just recently he may have put the exclamation point on that ability of his by running between a 4.62 and 4.65 at 244 lbs, and jumping 35" vertically only two weeks after spraining his ankle while training for this Pro Day. Minor nicks and twists, sprains, pulled hamstrings, etc...they happen. Which players play through them? Which players avoid contact injuries?

Remember, the 18 game season is looming on the horizon. It's a lot like the rookie wage scale in that both the NFL and the NFLPA have reasons to want that to happen. Some are speculating that the 18 game season is the carrot that will get both sides talking enough to get this CBA ironed out in time to prevent a lockout. When the 18 game season happens, durability is going to become a bigger going concern. Also, rosters will expand. The speculation is that the practice squad will be no more, they'll be absorbed as full time players. Harvey Unga's excellent show of durability, as well as his versatility, could go a long way in getting him drafted by a team that is thinking ahead.

phintim
07-12-2010, 01:50 PM
Are you a fan of the 18 game system?

ckparrothead
07-12-2010, 02:17 PM
I don't have strong feelings one way or the other. It's going to suck to have 33 years of season-based statistical records basically thrown out the window. Also I can't help but think one way or the other, the players are going to get screwed. It will also lead to more of a disconnect between which teams were the best for the longest during the season, and which teams win the Super Bowl. Already it seems that the teams that win during the regular season can be overcome by lesser teams that just stay healthier longer, and that will only increase.

On the other hand, more football is generally a good thing because we love the sport so much, and there's no doubt that four preseason games is unnecessary.

FinAtic8480
07-12-2010, 02:31 PM
Former BYU running back Harvey Unga is confident some NFL team will select him in Thursday's supplemental draft, and he says the team that takes him will get a back who can do everything.

"I can be the third down back--and that can be third and short or third and long, they think it'd be great to have a big guy like me even on a third-and-long play where if they need to throw me the ball they know I'll catch it and make the best of it," Unga said, per Brian Stull of 101ESPN.com. "There's a lot of different things I believe teams will be able to use me for."

The 244-pound Unga is big enough to play fullback but says that's not how NFL coaches envision using him.

"Most of them have been telling me I'm going to be playing running back," Unga said.

Unga ran for more than 1,000 yards in each of his three college seasons and is BYU's all-time leading rusher. He also caught 92 passes for 1,085 yards and nine touchdowns.

www.profootballtalk.com

DefensiveEnd76
07-12-2010, 02:36 PM
Unga was actually measured at 6'1 1/4" not 5'11"

FinAtic8480
07-12-2010, 02:37 PM
AaronAloysius @ckparrot Harvey Unga's had some injury issues: season-ending hip injury in '06, broken hand in '09, as well as on & off ankle issues

www.twitter.com/AaronAloysius

Im not calling you out, just want to know your opinion on what Aaron is pointing out

ckparrothead
07-12-2010, 03:06 PM
Freshman injuries are irrelevant to durability IMO. There's too much going on there between teams being eager to redshirt a young guy, and the guys themselves being too young and dumb to display ultimately what will be their durability patterns at both the next level and the level beyond. I don't know how extensive his hip injury was. I don't know if anyone does outside of Unga and the coaches.

As for nagging ankle and broken hand injuries? Come on. We're going to talk about nagging nicks on a guy that played in 38 of 39 games and touched the ball an average of 20.9 times the entire time he was fighting these nagging injuries? That's a big reach to me. It'd be one thing if these nagging injuries drew him down on his touches during the games he did play, but they didn't. He carried a load for three years and rushed for 1000+ yards each year, became BYU's all time leading rusher.

I don't care what anyone says, durability seems like an A+ on this guy.

PhinsPhan11
07-12-2010, 03:22 PM
I think he can be a good running back, so I wouldn't mind if we got him. If we didn't it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

FinAtic8480
07-12-2010, 03:33 PM
AaronAloysius @ckparrot Unga was limited by a mid-season ankle injury vs MT. There were conflicting reports, but some said the ankle affected his pro day

AaronAloysius @ckparrot Not saying that Unga has major durability q's, but I wouldn't categorize him as an A+ guy either. Will agree to disagree on this 1

www.twitter.com/AaronAloysus


ckparrot @AaronAloysius Well that has to be the 1st time I've ever seen a 38/39 game guy that touched the ball 21 times a game dinged on durability.

ckparrot @AaronAloysius And notice that despite an ankle twist two weeks before, he still went thru his pro day and did well. Pattern? You bet.

www.twitter.com/ckparrot

I am agreeing 100% with CK on this one. Kid is big durable back who is always falling forward for the extra yard.

PhinsPhan11
07-12-2010, 03:50 PM
www.twitter.com/AaronAloysus



www.twitter.com/ckparrot

I am agreeing 100% with CK on this one. Kid is big durable back who is always falling forward for the extra yard.
He does have good durability which is good for a running back.

FinAtic8480
07-12-2010, 04:00 PM
Former BYU RB Harvey Unga (6-foot-1, 244 pounds) worked out in front of 20 teams Thursday ahead of next week’s supplemental draft.


Among those on hand to watch the all-time leading rusher in Cougars history — on what was described as an older, smoother FieldTurf at BYU — were representatives from the Steelers, Packers, Dolphins, Giants, Seahawks and Saints.
An injured right ankle reportedly hampered Unga’s workout, specifically his ability to cut.

Nevertheless, Unga recorded 40-yard dash times of 4.76 and 4.65; a 4.51-second short shuttle; 7.41-second three-cone drill; a 35-inch vertical jump; and 9-foot, 6-inch broad jump.

Unga voluntarily withdrew from BYU in April after a reported honor-code violation.

The supplemental draft will take place July 15.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/07/08/ex-byu-rb-unga-works-out-for-20-teams/

RealDriscoll
07-12-2010, 04:08 PM
I'd pass on Unga; We already need to find a way to replenish the 2nd rounder lost to Denver. Plus the RB talent is pretty deep in 2011 with guys like Daniel Thomas of Kansas state, John Clay of Wisconsin, Evan Royster of Penn State, BRandon Saine of Ohio State, Demarco Murray of Oklahoma, and Shaun Draughn of UNC could be nice options

Sirspud
07-12-2010, 04:27 PM
I don't have strong feelings one way or the other. It's going to suck to have 33 years of season-based statistical records basically thrown out the window. Also I can't help but think one way or the other, the players are going to get screwed. It will also lead to more of a disconnect between which teams were the best for the longest during the season, and which teams win the Super Bowl. Already it seems that the teams that win during the regular season can be overcome by lesser teams that just stay healthier longer, and that will only increase.

On the other hand, more football is generally a good thing because we love the sport so much, and there's no doubt that four preseason games is unnecessary.

I Hate to make this OT, but I agree with a lot of the things you say. In the end, I feel like doing an 18-game season is something that's easy for the league (more money!) but not necessarily what is best in maintaining some sort of history as well as a more competitive regular season. In the end, I'm not going to not watch two extra regular season games on principle, as it certainly wouldn't be unenjoyable for me to have two more games to watch. But I feel like I'm getting a better product with 16 games.

ckparrothead
07-12-2010, 04:29 PM
John Clay is a junior. The other guys you listed are...options. I wouldn't call them 'nice' options necessarily. Daniel Thomas doesn't look like a pro to me (slow, sloppy). Demarco Murray looks like a dancer, Evan Royster looks like a limited one-cut guy and Brandon Saine was recently (for whatever reason) given a UDFA grade by the national scouting service that provides the NFL with preseason scout grades on seniors. I haven't done anything on Shaun Draughn yet but nothing has ever particularly drawn me to him.

ckparrothead
07-12-2010, 04:31 PM
I Hate to make this OT, but I agree with a lot of the things you say. In the end, I feel like doing an 18-game season is something that's easy for the league (more money!) but not necessarily what is best in maintaining some sort of history as well as a more competitive regular season. In the end, I'm not going to not watch two extra regular season games on principle, as it certainly wouldn't be unenjoyable for me to have two more games to watch. But I feel like I'm getting a better product with 16 games.

In that case you'd probably be better off skipping out on the first two games of the season rather than the last two. What they're proposing is to take the final two of the preseason games and make them regular season games, which means there will be two preseason games and then the regular season starts. On that basis you could just skip the first two regular season games just like you'd probably skip watching the preseason games...and I don't know if it will even matter much because in an 18-game season what is happening around playoff time is even more disconnected with what happened during the first two games of the season.

FinAtic8480
07-12-2010, 04:33 PM
ckparrot @AaronAloysius I've heard 4.62 and 4.65, 35" vert, sprained ankle and all. He plays thru pain. That's a plus. Every runner takes injuries.

www.twitter.com/ckparrot

Ck, I wonder if his 40 time would have been better if his ankle would not have bothered him.

Sirspud
07-12-2010, 04:40 PM
In that case you'd probably be better off skipping out on the first two games of the season rather than the last two. What they're proposing is to take the final two of the preseason games and make them regular season games, which means there will be two preseason games and then the regular season starts. On that basis you could just skip the first two regular season games just like you'd probably skip watching the preseason games...and I don't know if it will even matter much because in an 18-game season what is happening around playoff time is even more disconnected with what happened during the first two games of the season.

Right now I tune in preseason games through whatever source I can find because I'm in TB's local broadcasting area, not Miami. I don't miss any Miami football if I can help it, even if the means of getting it aren't entirely orthodox. If anything, the 18 game schedule would relieve me of the burden of having to find a way to watch two preseason games.

TedSlimmJr
07-12-2010, 04:44 PM
John Clay is a junior. The other guys you listed are...options. I wouldn't call them 'nice' options necessarily. Daniel Thomas doesn't look like a pro to me (slow, sloppy). Demarco Murray looks like a dancer, Evan Royster looks like a limited one-cut guy and Brandon Saine was recently (for whatever reason) given a UDFA grade by the national scouting service that provides the NFL with preseason scout grades on seniors. I haven't done anything on Shaun Draughn yet but nothing has ever particularly drawn me to him.


Absolutely... I like Daniel Thomas but he runs too upright and gets caught from behind....

Murray doesn't like contact (and apparently for good reason) because he can't stay on the field...

Clay is a masher between the tackles, probably the best guy mentioned here so far...

Royster's best fit is in a ZBS where he can one-cut and go...

Brandon Saine is the kid I like the best in this particular bunch, and the guy with the ability and opportunity in front of him to increase his stock the most...

Draughn wasn't even the leading rusher on his team last year at UNC and will continue to split carries with Ryan Houston...

Not a flattering bunch of RB's unless Ingram, Ryan Williams, Quizz, and Montel Harris declare... and I think Damien Berry, Anthony Allen and Delone Carter are three of the better senior RB prospects than they're given credit for...

BIG_FISH_RI
07-12-2010, 06:01 PM
I watched his film. He is OK. 3rd seems a little high for him but he is more then a 6th. I say maybe 4th but I can see why Miami would be intyerested in him. He is a big physical inside runner with good vision. Maybe a 3rd is needed to be sure that Miami lands him.

TedSlimmJr
07-12-2010, 06:21 PM
A 3rd round pick is too high for Unga.... He's worth giving up a 5th rounder for in the supplemental draft.. that's about what his TRUE value is... but there's probably quite a few teams that would be willing to part with a 5th for this kid.... meaning whoever jumps on him willing to part with a 4th is likely to get him...

You rarely see teams willing to part with more than a 4th round pick for prospects in the supplemental draft.... and this kid just doesn't bring enough special qualities to the table at RB to warrant more than that...especially in a league where the two-back system is the trend.... although he's as good of a pass catching back as there was in college football...

A fullback/running back tweener... although I tend to lean more towards fullback type skills and quality..

FINSItalia
07-12-2010, 07:14 PM
It's possible just because if you look at next year's seniors at RB then you don't see a very exciting class. The only guy with a full physical package looks to me to be Brandon Saine and he was just recently rated by the national scouting service the NFL uses for preseason rankings as a UDFA. I think they're nuts but obviously he's not a homerun prospect. The Oklahoma kid looks a little too Reggie Bush-ish to me and some folks question whether the Penn State kid is a little too much one cut and done. I haven't really evaluated the whole class yet and looked at which guys have shown tremendous durability but I know Saine hasn't yet, and if the others haven't then you could have an altogether scary situation where you may lose both Ronnie Brown (free agency) and Ricky Williams (retirement) and to replace them you have to dip into a draft where curiously the juniors decided to stay in school (rookie wage scale). At that point Miami would have to hope Lex Hilliard and/or Pat Cobbs can shoulder a load as one of the two main backs. and if that guy is Cobbs then they have to find someone that can fill his role which they didn't really adequately do a year ago.

I wouldn't forecast a 3rd though. I just don't see this regime going into a draft with zero picks on the second day, even considering their proclivities toward moving down and trading players to acquire more picks.

What about Daniel Thomas, KSU? I didn't see any KSU games last year, but Gil Brandt says he's good good speed and versatility and his size is pretty good - could be an option at the wildcat?

ckparrothead
07-13-2010, 12:47 AM
Brandon Saine is the kid I like the best in this particular bunch, and the guy with the ability and opportunity in front of him to increase his stock the most...

That's funny because I've been bytching about that preseason national scout grade since I heard about it. I wrote this for the Universal Draft website back on June 19.




Name: Brandon Saine
Team: Ohio State University
Position: Running back
Number: 3
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 219 lbs
40 Time: 4.43 (est.)
Hometown: Piqua, Ohio

2009 Stats: 145 Runs, 739 Yds, 4 TDs. 17 Rec, 224 RecYds, 2 RecTDs.
2010 Stats: N/A

Campus Profile:

Buckeye Bits: talented offensive threat blessed with a combination of breakaway speed and power … performed well during spring drills … also a capable receiver … made big strides in the winter weight program

2008 (Sophomore): was a hybrid factor in the Buckeye offense … 2-yard TD run against Ohio … 20-yard reception from Terrelle Pryor against Penn State … special teams dog tags: Illinois … second-year letterman

2007 (Freshman): rushed for 267 yards and two scores as a true freshman in 2007 … gained 28 yards rushing and caught a touchdown pass in Akron win … 37-yard TD at Washington … leading rusher (69 yards) and receiver (76) against Kent State … team’s outstanding first-year player on offense … special teams dog tags: Akron … first-year letterman

High School: Ohio’s 2006 Mr. Football after rushing for 1,895 yards and 27 touchdowns on 259 carries and totaling 412 yards on 30 pass receptions as a senior … Parade All-American … runs a 4.35 40-yard dash … rated as the No. 2 overall prospect in Ohio … garnered all-state, all-conference and conference player of the year honors as a junior and a senior … rushed for 240 yards on 30 carries and scored three touchdowns to lead Piqua to the 2006 Division II state championship …100- and 400-meter Division I state track champion … Offense-Defense All-American Bowl, helping lead the East squad to a 24-18 victory … owned a 3.3 GPA

Personal: son of Wendi Croft … has two siblings … a business administration major at Ohio State … 2008 Big Ten all-academic

6/19/2010 - Comments - Background: Brandon Saine is a former 4-Star recruit, rated by Rivals as the #5 running back in the country in 2007. He did not redshirt as a freshman at Ohio State, but he stepped into a situation where both future 1st round pick Chris 'Beanie' Wells and Maurice Wells were firmly established, and it didn't help that Todd Boeckman and later Terrelle Pryor were significant factors in the ground game as mobile Quarterbacks. Saine was also recruited in the same year as another top recruit (4-Star, Rivals' #18 RB in Nation) Dan Herron. This has proved to be a crowded backfield for Saine to navigate through for reps, and so his lack of statistics in 2007 and 2008 are not surprising. An injury which required minor knee surgery in 2007 did not help. More injuries during the 2008 season also did not help and if he suffers any more injuries in 2010 he may be bumped way down the draft boards of teams that require explicit shows of durability in their backs. Given a shot in 2009 to replace the departing Beanie Wells, Saine proved more effective as a yard gainer than his fellow recruit Herron, and he put together a full season without missing any action. He has never been in trouble off the field, that I have found, and in his interviews he sounds very humble, quiet and a little bit shy. -CK

6/19/2010 - Comments - Size/Speed: As you know we rarely trust listed heights/weights, and it's even harder to trust speed estimates. In the case of Brandon Saine, I don't believe the listings are that far off. He is not a squatty player, so I could believe him being a fraction of an inch above 6' tall. He is noticeably taller on the football field than his counterpart, the 5'10" listed Dan Herron. He showed up to Ohio State at a verified 205 lbs, and so 219 lbs is not unbelievable. He looked about 215 lbs in 2009, if I were to play the "guess my weight" game. As far as speed goes, a 4.43 is also an easy figure to believe, and based on what I have seen I would not put it past him to best that time in a Combine setting. Ohio State employs an Olympic medalist and former 400 meters world record holder as its speed coach, and he verified that as an incoming freshman Saine was about a 4.40 guy that could crack into the 4.3's. Jim Tressel noted that even though he ran with the team's middle size group, Saine could beat all of the team's smallest size group (DBs and WRs) in a foot race. He won four state track titles in high school, and was the national 60 yard dash champion. He holds the Ohio Division I record for the 100 meters at 10.38 seconds. Unofficially, he has supposedly been clocked as fast as 4.25 seconds in the 40 yard dash. That means nothing if you can't see his speed on the football field, but a little film watching will tell you that on the field or off it you can see that his speed is very real. In the games I've seen, once he broke into the open it was easy to see that he was obviously the fastest man on the field. -CK

6/19/2010 - Comments - Talent & Outlook: Early in his Ohio State career, he struggled with vision and timing, which along with some minor injuries and the presence of future 1st rounder Beanie Wells, helped keep him on the bench. He is more of a smooth glider than a chopper in the open field, but he's very disciplined and keeps his feet moving when mucked up in a pile. Though he's a glider, I wouldn't go as far as calling him a long strider. He possesses very good balance which helps him to break a fair amount of tackles after contact. With his kind of speed, Ohio State logically wanted his immediate contribution to the offense to come more in the passing game. However, early in his career he struggled with some of the finer concepts involved in being a significant receiving threat. From what I have seen, he has improved on this aspect of his game. He has shown the ability to execute chip blocking assignments and then quickly get into his route and catch the football. He is a deadly threat on play-action routes as well as wheel routes where he can easily get over top of linebackers and be a vertical threat a la C.J. Spiller. His pad level is OK, not great, but he does lower the shoulder to get more yards after contact and remembers to fall forward. I wouldn't go as far as calling him upright. His power and strength are not elite. One of the aspects of his game that makes him very interesting is the fact that he is a very high effort player, and this carries over to his ability to block in the backfield. From what I have seen, coaches can trust him to protect the passer, and he'll carry out his task with enthusiasm, at times knocking players to the ground. He has contributed big in some pretty big games against quality opponents. With the right senior season, and the right Combine measurements, and depending on which juniors come out, he could be a 1st/2nd round draft prospect. As things stand, the 3rd round might prove to be a more appropriate home for him based on his career to date. -CK


Not a flattering bunch of RB's unless Ingram, Ryan Williams, Quizz, and Montel Harris declare... and I think Damien Berry, Anthony Allen and Delone Carter are three of the better senior RB prospects than they're given credit for...

The juniors will dictate a lot in this upcoming draft. The draft has the potential to be a lot better than 2010 depending on the juniors. I like Anthony Allen. He's a little like Jamie Harper, a very talented tailback at Clemson that I'll also be looking to as a possible early entry into the Draft.

ckparrothead
07-13-2010, 12:53 AM
so lets just say he stays healthy and the new cba pays a rb on a franchise tag (again...assuming there is still a franchise tag) somewhere in the $7 mil range for 1 year...

you don't think it would be worth keeping him 1 more year under that #??? or at least tagging him and seeing what he could bring in trade...

it's a tough one for me...and i don't know what else we have coming up for free agency next year who could warrant it more...

Another year of Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams being here together is just another year that they don't move on and start developing replacements. It's one thing to bring them both back this year when the expiring CBA made it easy for Ronnie, and Ricky's contract still goes for one more year, and also while the team has other need areas stacked up so high that they can't even address them all (see FS, TE). It's another to bring Ronnie back yet again on an even more expensive contract (remember the 20% rule, he's got to make 20% more than this year if it's a franchise tag), and also re-signing Ricky Williams, all so that you can continue delaying finding another younger RB option that will take the reins.

I think you can bring one of the guys back, not two, and I know which one they prefer, and I know why.

ckparrothead
07-13-2010, 12:58 AM
i personally hope we use the wildcat a whole lot less this year...i think we have the horses now where we can play in the base and put points on the board...i just think we kill momentum too much with the cat sometimes and teams are much more prepared for it now...

b marshall imo means less wildcat to me...more running room for the rbs more open field area for the te's over the middle etc...

less wildcat please...

Maybe but I think Dan Henning is right when he says he needs to keep it going to give defensive coordinators something new to think about. Remember that the Wildcat didn't lose effectiveness because people "solved" it. It lost effectiveness because first Pat Cobbs got hurt, then Ronnie Brown got hurt which basically made the team nearly shelf it altogether, and what they were left with was the Pat White packages which Pat was not running particularly well. It's a juiced up running formation and it drives defensive coordinators and players nuts. It worked against the Colts, worked against the Chargers to my recollection, it helped us beat the Jets...it really lost effectiveness because of injuries not everyone catching up.

ckparrothead
07-13-2010, 01:01 AM
What about Daniel Thomas, KSU? I didn't see any KSU games last year, but Gil Brandt says he's good good speed and versatility and his size is pretty good - could be an option at the wildcat?

I've watched a fair bit of him. I don't really like him much. Not very good balance, sloppy runner, no breakaway speed, vision questionable.

ckparrothead
07-13-2010, 01:03 AM
I agree that a 3rd is too high but I wonder if the bidding could be fierce enough to up the price given his durability level and the likelihood of going to 18-game seasons.

I haven't watched that much 2007 BYU footage lately but I'm curious about what weight Unga was playing back then when he gained 1227 yards and 13 TDs on 244 carries (5.0 ypc) and he also caught 44 passes for 655 yards and 4 TDs. That's 1900 all purpose yards and 17 TDs for a college player on a 13 game schedule. Absolutely phenomenal. He caught 42 balls and had 15 total TDs in 2008 as well, but his total yardage was down to 1440. What changed? Had he started gaining weight? Would he look more dynamic at a lower weight again? Something to ponder.

Tigers2003
07-13-2010, 01:05 AM
Well done on the reporting.

Yeah I wouldn't expect him to be moved to FB full time. Maybe some sort of F-Back role. Hell even Pat Cobbs has come out on the wing and blocked, and he's barely over 200 lbs.

Just to recap what I've been saying about Harvey Unga in case this turns into the Harvey Unga Thread until Thursday's Supplemental Draft, Miami's attraction to him has to do with his having played in 38 of his last 39 games at BYU, and his having averaged 20.9 touches per game over that time period.

To the Miami Dolphins, who place an emphasis on durability, this is an extraordinary show of durability and ability to play through minor nicks and injuries, and just recently he may have put the exclamation point on that ability of his by running between a 4.62 and 4.65 at 244 lbs, and jumping 35" vertically only two weeks after spraining his ankle while training for this Pro Day. Minor nicks and twists, sprains, pulled hamstrings, etc...they happen. Which players play through them? Which players avoid contact injuries?

Remember, the 18 game season is looming on the horizon. It's a lot like the rookie wage scale in that both the NFL and the NFLPA have reasons to want that to happen. Some are speculating that the 18 game season is the carrot that will get both sides talking enough to get this CBA ironed out in time to prevent a lockout. When the 18 game season happens, durability is going to become a bigger going concern. Also, rosters will expand. The speculation is that the practice squad will be no more, they'll be absorbed as full time players. Harvey Unga's excellent show of durability, as well as his versatility, could go a long way in getting him drafted by a team that is thinking ahead.

Great points. It is extremely hard to find the back that can be the do everything guy. This league is going to have three headed monsters on every roster to split the carries. It has already happened. Look at the two Super Bowl teams this year with the Colts and Addia and Brown (in their near future Mike Hart as 3rd down back) and the Saints with Bush, P. Thomas, and Bell. You got the closest thing to the traditional every down back, the scat back, and the 3rd down hybrid / FB - RB hybrid.

We got Ricky, Ronnie, Cobbs and now POTENTIALLY the FB/RB hybrid to take the pounding on 3rd downs. Diversity in roles and spreading the wealth. It has to be done within whatever permanent salary cap post 2011 we will have. And with the splitting of roles each every back will have to block, catch, and run. They each have their speciality but must be interchangeable if needed. The days of the traditiona all-everything back may be a memory in the NFL of the 2nd and 3rd decades of the 21st century.

ckparrothead
07-13-2010, 01:20 AM
Judge for yourself. Here he is in 2007:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD0BbmFEQBg

That's a highlight video of the whole team but he's all over the place in that video. Particularly go to 3:35 and see two phenomenal plays of his.

Now you can check him out circa 2009, here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz1S1PsOtLE

Granted that is against a damn good TCU defense...but is he heavier? Is he slower? Was he hurt? Hard to say.

j-off-her-doll
07-13-2010, 06:47 AM
Remind anyone else of J. Bettis? Nifty feet - especially for his size.

Fin Thirteen
07-13-2010, 06:53 AM
Salt Lake Tribune reported the Seahawks, Saints, Eagles, and Bucs as being the most visibly interested on the day of his workout, in terms of post-workout interviews etc.

Rotoworld are reporting that Unga is projecting as a fifth rounder. He starts looking like a better value bet at a fourth or fifth rounder. I certainly wouldn't break the bank for him. He's a WYSIWYG type, albeit a dependable one.

Buff
07-13-2010, 07:56 AM
Personally, i'd rather pass on a suplemental draft pick, and particularly a RB with the roster that we have this year. I'd rather trade up next year - I think we will be drafting mid 20's - to get Ingram.

Kdawg954
07-13-2010, 08:00 AM
Personally, i'd rather pass on a suplemental draft pick, and particularly a RB with the roster that we have this year. I'd rather trade up next year - I think we will be drafting mid 20's - to get Ingram.

I'm thinking this as well . . . tho a 5th round pick would not be a bad deal at all for Unga. I especially like the idea of a Unga/Devine backfield. Talk about thunder and lightning . . . with Polite in the mix as well? That would be nasty.

RobertHorry
07-13-2010, 11:30 AM
It's going to really tick some people off around here when they see the deal Ronnie signs elsewhere. It won't be an outlandish deal I don't think, and there will be some fan backlash about not bringing him back...much as you see backlash at not bringing Jason Taylor back.


I think it will be much worse than not bringing Taylor back.

ckparrothead
07-13-2010, 11:31 AM
Remind anyone else of J. Bettis? Nifty feet - especially for his size.

Actually yeah a little like what Jerome looked like in the last few years before he retired.

RobertHorry
07-13-2010, 11:42 AM
Actually yeah a little like what Jerome looked like in the last few years before he retired.


I hope the Dolphins look at Jourdan Brooks out of Rutgers in the 6th or 7th round. He is a powerful runner with deceptive speed. I'm not sure if you've heard of him, but I hope the Dolphins have. His skill set will translate to the NFL level.

X-Pacolypse
07-13-2010, 11:46 AM
I think it will be much worse than not bringing Taylor back.

I can't imagine it being THAT bad. I think most folks have come to terms with Ronnie's inability to stay healthy and the Trifecta's penchant to jettison injury prone players. Then again, maybe I'm wrong?

DefensiveEnd76
07-13-2010, 03:22 PM
Well Ricky is getting old, Ronnie is injury prone and Pat Cobbs is coming back from a serious injury. So upgrading the runningback position is critical.

phintim
07-13-2010, 03:27 PM
So currently it looks like we possibly be giving up a 4th round pick on this guy out of next years draft? Other possible targets in next years draft are TE and FS. I would throw OLB into that pool right now too until we see what we have.\

Myles Fynch
07-13-2010, 05:23 PM
How much better is Unga than one of the last cuts by another team in August?

Miami should be able to wait till next year when they'd have more options, but if they opt not to wait then that says plenty about how they view Cobbs injury and Hilliard/Sheets potential to step up. The conservative bet is that either Ricky or Ronnie disappoints in 2010 due to injury/age falloff, so the other runners better show some potential or you'd have to consider overdrafting Unga in order to land him. Being interesting in him doesn't mean much to me at this point because it's the best way to see what he was like coming into the league. When he works out for you in a few years as a FA you will have something to compare that data to.

Mr. Magoo
07-13-2010, 05:37 PM
Actually yeah a little like what Jerome looked like in the last few years before he retired.

I would hope he was better than that. Bettis didn't average more than four yards a carry the last four years of his career. Overall, though, I agree with the assessment that he appears very durable and is workman like. Has some wiggle, though not a lot. Then again, this offensive line is so good pretty much anyone who can stay upright can produce behind it. Would like to see what Ubga brings in the passing game, though Henning doesn't really give either Ronnie or Ricky a lot to do in the passing game. This is particularly a shame in Brown's case, given how good his hands are. There's no reason Brown shouldn't be getting two screen passes a game. A lot of people like to beat up on Henning, which in my opinion just foolish. Overall I think he does a very, very good job. But I'd like to see the "feed the studs" philosophy stretched to those guys in the passing game. A shotgun formation with both guys next to Henne would present the defense with a pretty big conundrum. You fake it to one guy and the defense has to react to it because, hey, that's Ricky Williams. He's dangerous.

hooshoops
07-13-2010, 09:44 PM
Remind anyone else of J. Bettis? Nifty feet - especially for his size.

i think he's got pretty good feet...but lacks balance...and in that 09 video i don't see any burst whatsoever...he'll fall forward on contact but guys are on him in space pretty quick on that college tape...and in the nfl it will be even faster...

i wouldn't use a top 4 round pick on him...looks like a rb/fb tweener to me...with pass catching abilities...didn't exactly get open on his routes either in one on one coverage

sinPHIN
07-14-2010, 04:54 AM
no thanks there are much better backs in next years draft

TraderJoe
07-14-2010, 06:32 AM
He is sounding more and more like Hilliard.

NorFlaFin
07-14-2010, 10:17 AM
How are his hands compare to the RB currently on the roster? his blocking?

I watched te FSU- BYU Unga was definitely slowed by injury and not FSU pathetic defense, his durabiltiy cause me some concern.

ckparrothead
07-14-2010, 11:04 AM
Concerned about durability on a guy that played in 38 of his last 39 games, averaging 20.7 touches per game the whole time?

Ok.

hooshoops
07-14-2010, 11:08 AM
yeah i don't see durability as an issue...i see burst and acceleration as a problem...he's got a little wiggle and he's a load

ckparrothead
07-14-2010, 11:09 AM
You know at any given point in the NFL, there really aren't that many running backs that are 100 percent healthy. Maybe Week 1 and 2. After that, they're all dealing with something. The guys that are the best tend to be the guys that can push through and be productive. For all that Harvey Unga was supposedly hurting in that Florida State game he rushed 10 times for 97 yards and a TD. I'd say that's pushing through and finding a way to stay productive. The injured times will come for every NFL running back, and so will the healthy times. But which guys play through both, and stay productive all the while?

I don't see some dynamic talent in Unga. I see NFL viability, the ability to improve, and the ability to have value for a team. I don't see knocking his durability for him having played through pain and staying productive.

EauGallieFish
07-14-2010, 11:51 AM
I agree that a 3rd is too high but I wonder if the bidding could be fierce enough to up the price given his durability level and the likelihood of going to 18-game seasons.

I haven't watched that much 2007 BYU footage lately but I'm curious about what weight Unga was playing back then when he gained 1227 yards and 13 TDs on 244 carries (5.0 ypc) and he also caught 44 passes for 655 yards and 4 TDs. That's 1900 all purpose yards and 17 TDs for a college player on a 13 game schedule. Absolutely phenomenal. He caught 42 balls and had 15 total TDs in 2008 as well, but his total yardage was down to 1440. What changed? Had he started gaining weight? Would he look more dynamic at a lower weight again? Something to ponder.

I work With Harvey's dad and live here in Provo where BYU plays and have watched him for the last three years. I can tell you that in 2007 he played in the mid 220's and he had a lot more burst and speed. This last season I would always tell his dad that Harvey was getting soft because you couldn't see the muscle definition in his arms. He had a bad ankle injury that he played through in 2008 and then a bad shoulder, wrist, and hand in 2009 but he always played through them, I'm not sure but I think he only missed one game in three years. His dad wouldn't say it but I think he gained the weight due to injuries and to become more durable.

ckparrothead
07-14-2010, 12:13 PM
I work With Harvey's dad and live here in Provo where BYU plays and have watched him for the last three years. I can tell you that in 2007 he played in the mid 220's and he had a lot more burst and speed. This last season I would always tell his dad that Harvey was getting soft because you couldn't see the muscle definition in his arms. He had a bad ankle injury that he played through in 2008 and then a bad shoulder, wrist, and hand in 2009 but he always played through them, I'm not sure but I think he only missed one game in three years. His dad wouldn't say it but I think he gained the weight due to injuries and to become more durable.

And there you have it. Suspicions confirmed.

hooshoops
07-14-2010, 12:40 PM
he looked faster and leaner in the 07 stuff i looked at...i still wouldn't say he had nfl burst though...i like what ck said...not a dynamic talent...and i concur

ckparrothead
07-14-2010, 12:51 PM
I think if Shonn Greene can make it, Harvey Unga could make it if he played in the 230's.

hooshoops
07-14-2010, 12:57 PM
i think shonn greene has more burst and quick acceleration...more sudden

i'm seeing more lex hilliard with some pass catching skills...but i think hilliard accelerates into the hole faster...maybe better feet than hilliard

EauGallieFish
07-14-2010, 01:14 PM
I'm biased in the situation because I know his family. I would love for Harvey to go to us and pound the ball. I'm not very good at finding clips of plays but if anyone can find a clip of him against Utah 2007 towards end of game, ronnie brown like explosion! Thst being said I'm not sure that I would give a third for him, probably a fifth. From talking to his dad it sounds like St. Louis or Kansas City are going to give a third and it would be St. Louis.

ckparrothead
07-14-2010, 01:58 PM
This is the game you're talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CChVoqKo78M

I believe at the end of it there's a clip of Unga decleating Robert Johnson into the end zone.

EauGallieFish
07-14-2010, 02:12 PM
This is the game you're talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CChVoqKo78M

I believe at the end of it there's a clip of Unga decleating Robert Johnson into the end zone.

Yes, that is the one. Reminds me of when Ronnie ran over that dude from the raiders, BOOM! I think one thing that hasn't been mentioned here is that Harvey packs a solid punch and that he always falls forward, he hardly ever loses yards. I believe that is one of his under rated skills, is that he always finds a way to gain yards.

FinAtic8480
07-14-2010, 02:44 PM
The Dolphins last week attended workouts for the top two players in Thursday's supplemental draft: BYU running back Harvey Unga (Miami already is deep at that position) and Illinois 6-2, 315-pound defensive tackle Josh Price-Brent, who had three sacks and three forced fumbles in 12 starts last season but was ruled academically ineligible. ``He's a good defensive lineman, a third- or fourth-round pick,'' said former Cowboys executive Gil Brandt of NFL.com. ``But I doubt Bill Parcells would take a player in the supplemental draft.''

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/07/13/1729192_p2/expect-florida-marlins-to-be-open.html#ixzz0tgRdg33y

Didn't Parcells give a 2nd round pick for Drew Henson in the supplemental Draft, if he did that why is it so far fetched to believe he will pull the trigger in this year Supplemental Draft

X-Pacolypse
07-14-2010, 02:50 PM
If I had to put money down on who this regime would take in the Supplemental Draft, I'm going with the big NT out of Illinois.

TedSlimmJr
07-14-2010, 05:46 PM
Parcells never gave up a 2nd rounder for Drew Henson in the supplemental draft... and Drew Henson was never in the supplemental draft to begin with...

I don't know why in the hell some of you keep repeating it....


Henson was drafted by the Texans in the 6th round of the regular draft...... Dallas traded a 3rd rounder to the Texans in exchange for Henson 2 years later....

FinAtic8480
07-14-2010, 11:09 PM
Dolphins could land Unga in tomorrows supplemental draft


A few weeks ago, multiple sources reported that the Dolphins were showing interest in former BYU running back Harvey Unga. If that interest is genuine, we could see Miami make a strong bid for Unga in tomorrow's suplemental draft.

Even though they are already set at running back for the 2010 season, with Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams ready to carry the load for at least one more year, the future at the position could sure use some assurance.

Unga is a burly 244 pound power back, who fits the Parcells' mold like a glove. His size indicates he may be suited for fullback at the pro level, but his athleticism and receiving skills have scouts projecting him to stay put running back.

Yes, Unga could be an intriguing successor to either Ronnie or Ricky, but even if the Dolphins are sold, the sacrifice that may come with selecting him and the competing interest from other teams will likely prevent him from coming to Miami.



http://www.phinsphocus.com/2010-articles/july/dolphins-could-land-unga-in-tomorrows-sumplemental-draft.html

Ricky4Life
07-15-2010, 12:55 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obsoqzWLDEU

ckparrothead
07-15-2010, 09:25 AM
Parcells never gave up a 2nd rounder for Drew Henson in the supplemental draft... and Drew Henson was never in the supplemental draft to begin with...

I don't know why in the hell some of you keep repeating it....


Henson was drafted by the Texans in the 6th round of the regular draft...... Dallas traded a 3rd rounder to the Texans in exchange for Henson 2 years later....

Thank you.

Wasn't Chad Hutchinson a Supplemental Draft pick, pre-Parcells? That guy's eyes were so close together he looked like a baby flounder.

ckparrothead
07-15-2010, 09:35 AM
Believe me though, if Gil Brandt is right that Parcells would not take someone in the Supplemental Draft, I'm sure the Tuna has his reasons. In fact I believe I wrote a big article about those reasons just before the Dolphins wasted a pick on Manny Wright.

The whole Supplemental Draft process is riddled with imperfect information and improper perspective. You are forced to focus on one or two players in a vaccuum and that makes grading their worth more difficult. In the real draft you can choose not to use a certain pick on a player because you have this other player available that you like more. In the Supplemental Draft you're more prone to tunnel vision, over-focusing on a guy until you over-inflate his worth. Also, you've got no idea what you're giving up in next year's draft class because you haven't evaluated next year's class. Put those risks together with the fact that USUALLY when a guy is available in the Supplemental Draft (Unga an exception) there's some kind of red flag reason he is available, and the fact there's no Combine process that gives you apples-to-apples looks with previous prospects athletically and medically, it's a process fraught with risk. If the Dolphins decide not to take part as a matter of philosophy, I really wouldn't blame them.

That said I think Unga has shown a nice set of skills and characteristics and he's a guy I wouldn't mind having on my team. He's durable, very strong, good in short yardage, might be good for more than that, I think overall he's a better prospect than Lex Hilliard was, he keeps his head down and he plays through pain. If the NFL goes 18 game seasons and expanded rosters, his value becomes greater.

hooshoops
07-15-2010, 09:50 AM
i like the roster expansion point...i think he has more value if that's the case...heard some rumblings that the roster could expand to 50 players active on game day if we do go to 18 game sched...

just don't use a top 3 round pick on him...he's not that good of a talent imo...4th round if we're looking to trump another team with a better slot than us in the 5th i guess i can see it...

otherwise pass

Myles Fynch
07-15-2010, 10:24 AM
I'm also in favor of not over-drafting this guy. Kudos to him for playing through injuries, which as CK has pointed out, earns bonus points with our FO. But when I watch videos of him, I ask myself is this what it's going to look like in the pros, or are they going to put a stop to this? I'm afraid I think it's the latter.

For a big guy, he's not smashing people in any way that would remind you of someone like Polite. So if he stays at RB he's going to need to show vision, elusiveness, or speed, preferably a combo of all of three. JMO, but he doesn't seem to have enough wiggle or speed to make the defenders at the next level miss--in terms of him making pros fail as opposed to some of these college guys failing against him, if that makes any sense. Ginn looked pretty good on tape, too. This is not a poor man's Earl Campbell, perhaps more of a Rob Konrad, the injury factor notwithstanding. Put in a late pick if you want to, but I'd rather see what my options are next year.

I wouldn't be disappointed in him being on the roster because he might develop into a quality role player, but under normal circumstances he doesn't seem to be the kind you'd go after in the first two days of a three day draft. If we take him something's not right with Cobbs, Hilliard, and Sheets and the decision that one or more of them can't help us has already been made.

dolpns13
07-15-2010, 10:30 AM
I'm also in favor of not over-drafting this guy. Kudos to him for playing through injuries, which as CK has pointed out, earns bonus points with our FO. But when I watch videos of him, I ask myself is this what it's going to look like in the pros, or are they going to put a stop to this? I'm afraid I think it's the latter.

For a big guy, he's not smashing people in any way that would remind you of someone like Polite. So if he stays at RB he's going to need to show vision, elusiveness, or speed, preferably a combo of all of three. JMO, but he doesn't seem to have enough wiggle or speed to make the defenders at the next level miss--in terms of him making pros fail as opposed to some of these college guys failing against him, if that makes any sense. Ginn looked pretty good on tape, too. This is not a poor man's Earl Campbell, perhaps more of a Rob Konrad, the injury factor notwithstanding. Put in a late pick if you want to, but I'd rather see what my options are next year.

I wouldn't be disappointed in him being on the roster because he might develop into a quality role player, but under normal circumstances he doesn't seem to be the kind you'd go after in the first two days of a three day draft. If we take him something's not right with Cobbs, Hilliard, and Sheets and the decision that one or more of them can't help us has already been made.

Maybe as a 5th or 6th round flyer, I would hope we wouldnt take him any higher than that. The way he runs, it looks like he would never make it past the LOS. What good is a runningback when linebackers are faster than the runningback. The third round is way to high to take any fullback

TedSlimmJr
07-15-2010, 06:25 PM
Believe me though, if Gil Brandt is right that Parcells would not take someone in the Supplemental Draft, I'm sure the Tuna has his reasons. In fact I believe I wrote a big article about those reasons just before the Dolphins wasted a pick on Manny Wright.

The whole Supplemental Draft process is riddled with imperfect information and improper perspective. You are forced to focus on one or two players in a vaccuum and that makes grading their worth more difficult. In the real draft you can choose not to use a certain pick on a player because you have this other player available that you like more. In the Supplemental Draft you're more prone to tunnel vision, over-focusing on a guy until you over-inflate his worth. Also, you've got no idea what you're giving up in next year's draft class because you haven't evaluated next year's class. Put those risks together with the fact that USUALLY when a guy is available in the Supplemental Draft (Unga an exception) there's some kind of red flag reason he is available, and the fact there's no Combine process that gives you apples-to-apples looks with previous prospects athletically and medically, it's a process fraught with risk. If the Dolphins decide not to take part as a matter of philosophy, I really wouldn't blame them.

That said I think Unga has shown a nice set of skills and characteristics and he's a guy I wouldn't mind having on my team. He's durable, very strong, good in short yardage, might be good for more than that, I think overall he's a better prospect than Lex Hilliard was, he keeps his head down and he plays through pain. If the NFL goes 18 game seasons and expanded rosters, his value becomes greater.



Absolutely... the risk is even riskier... The main thing I don't like about the supplemental draft is the fact that you DON'T know exactly what you're giving up in next year's draft because you haven't evaluated it completely yet...

The supplemental draft is usually for guys that weren't able to enter the regular draft because of other athletic obligations (pro baseball, etc.) or have been kicked off of teams for being busted with performance enhancers or steroids, etc.. (which wasn't the case 20-30 years ago... but is now)...

..which is why teams are rarely ever willing to give up more than a 4th round pick in the supplemental draft..

Although I do remember Alabama running back Bobby Humphrey going in the 1st round of the supplemental draft... I believe Bernie Kosar did too...

Adam First
07-15-2010, 06:38 PM
In case nobody knew, Chicago took Unga in the 7th round. Every year there seems to be a "mid-level" supplemental draft choice that either goes very late or goes undrafted.