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Dolphins9954
09-22-2010, 08:23 PM
Former House speaker Newt Gingrich has proposed a federal law to ban the use of Sharia law in the United States, in a speech Saturday that also called for the de-funding of the Department of Health and Human Services.

Speaking to the Values Voters Summit Saturday, Gingrich told an enthusiastic audience that the US should have a law preventing judges from using traditional Muslim law, known as Sharia, when adjudicating cases. He also suggested the law allow for judges, including apparently Supreme Court judges, to be unseated if they attempt to use Muslim law.

"I am opposed to any effort to impose Sharia in the United States, and we should have a federal law that says under no circumstances in any jurisdiction in the United States will Sharia be used, in any court, to apply to any judgment made about American law," Gingrich said (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0910/42369.html) to loud applause.

"And we should make clear to Justice [Stephen] Breyer and Justice [Elena] Kagan, who both seem confused on this topic, that no judge will remain in office who tries to use Sharia law to interpret the US Constitution," Gingrich added.


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/gingrich-ban-sharia-soviet-tyranny/


Someone tell Newt and his enthusiastic audience that there is a thing called the constitution.



Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress (http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#REDRESS) of grievances


Newt should just go ahead and tell us what he really wants. A Federal ban on Islam all together. Newt is a wack job.

X-Pacolypse
09-22-2010, 09:12 PM
Religion sucks.

CashInFist
09-22-2010, 10:33 PM
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/gingrich-ban-sharia-soviet-tyranny/


Someone tell Newt and his enthusiastic audience that there is a thing called the constitution.



Newt should just go ahead and tell us what he really wants. A Federal ban on Islam all together. Newt is a wack job.


Noone but you in the USA would not want a ban on sharia law...

Dolphins9954
09-22-2010, 10:36 PM
The constitution already bans it. Try reading it from time to time.

CashInFist
09-22-2010, 10:38 PM
The constitution already bans it. Try reading it from time to time.


So what the hell is the point of your thread?

irish fin fan
09-22-2010, 11:02 PM
So what the hell is the point of your thread?
Let me guess. That people that pay lip service about the constitution don't actually know whats written in the constitution.

WSE
09-22-2010, 11:27 PM
this is called a political move

Sharia law is in no way or form happening in the United States

doing this was to score points with his base by scaring them into thinking Sharia Law has any form in this country. We dont have Sharia law you idiot Gingrich fanatics, we have a constitution that forbids the establishment of religion

Dolphins9954
09-23-2010, 12:21 AM
So what the hell is the point of your thread?

To inform. I guess it didn't work. Newt is playing on fear and ignorance to get elected. While ignoring the fact that the constitution already bans such things. Anyone who thinks that one day we will wake up to Sharia law as the law of the land. Is a paranoid islamophobe that's scared of their own shadow.

CashInFist
09-23-2010, 12:37 AM
To inform. I guess it didn't work. Newt is playing on fear and ignorance to get elected. While ignoring the fact that the constitution already bans such things. Anyone who thinks that one day we will wake up to Sharia law as the law of the land. Is a paranoid islamophobe that's scared of their own shadow.


Noone wants muslims here in any fashion. Newt was just stating the obvious.

Dolphins9954
09-23-2010, 12:43 AM
Noone wants muslims here in any fashion. Newt was just stating the obvious.

No one? Muslims are here and have been for a while if you like it or not. Newsflash!!!!! No matter how much you hate muslims the constitution forbids them from establishing Sharia Law. Unless the majority of the states amend the constitution to do so. Good luck getting that to happen. The same reason why we don't stone people to death for breaking the ten commandents.

Rafiki
09-23-2010, 01:08 AM
I don't even know where someone gets the idea that a religion can start imposing its will on our justice system.

phinfan3411
09-23-2010, 11:37 PM
I guess I am one of the ignorant, did I not read recently where a judge decided a case in a husbands favor based on sharia law?

Not that I am a fan of newt, but could that be what he is talking about, that's what immediately struck me.

phinfan3411
09-23-2010, 11:40 PM
Yes it was Judge Charles Joseph, NJ, it was later overturned.


I know the basis behind this is to show how one side are just sheep following the shepards lead, but I found it odd that a judge could rule based on sharia law, do you think that judge should also know the constitution like all the rhodes scholars on this site?

irish fin fan
09-23-2010, 11:41 PM
I guess I am one of the ignorant, did I not read recently where a judge decided a case in a husbands favor based on sharia law?

Not that I am a fan of newt, but could that be what he is talking about, that's what immediately struck me.
Maybe in Saudi Arabia.

Dolphins9954
09-24-2010, 12:07 AM
Yes it was Judge Charles Joseph, NJ, it was later overturned.


I know the basis behind this is to show how one side are just sheep following the shepards lead, but I found it odd that a judge could rule based on sharia law, do you think that judge should also know the constitution like all the rhodes scholars on this site?

It was overturned and the system worked. I agree this was a bad judge who made a bad decision. This case was also about a muslim who demanded sex from his wife. Which the bible also has too. But I don't see this in any way shape or form as Sharia law taking over the country. Newt is a tool using fear to get elected.

phinfan3411
09-24-2010, 12:20 AM
Maybe in Saudi Arabia.

Is New Jersey part of Saudi Arabia?

phinfan3411
09-24-2010, 12:25 AM
It was overturned and the system worked. I agree this was a bad judge who made a bad decision. This case was also about a muslim who demanded sex from his wife. Which the bible also has too. But I don't see this in any way shape or form as Sharia law taking over the country. Newt is a tool using fear to get elected.


I will not argue with you about newt, my point is that it JUST HAPPENED. Yes it was overturned, but something tells me that this is not the only judge that feels this way.

I know what I interperet some of the constitution to mean, I also know that courts all over the country rule in a way I feel is against what the constitution means everyday. It seems to be interpretation is the key, making (imo) newts point somewhat valid.

CashInFist
09-24-2010, 01:03 AM
It was overturned and the system worked. I agree this was a bad judge who made a bad decision. This case was also about a muslim who demanded sex from his wife. Which the bible also has too. But I don't see this in any way shape or form as Sharia law taking over the country. Newt is a tool using fear to get elected.


Gingrich for President in 2012. Just like I have said for the past 2 years. We should be so lucky.

spydertl79
09-24-2010, 03:01 AM
I don't think anyone disagrees that sharia law is wrong and has no place in the U.S. but it's unnecessary for Newt to come out against it like this when, as previously stated, sharia law is unconstitutional anyway. Just a political move hoping that some democrats in close races are dumb enough to speak out against him.

phinfan3411
09-24-2010, 06:01 AM
Well, guys, you heard it here first, it turns out that if it is written in the constitution, everything will be okey dokey. Do not worry anymore about your second amendment rights ( the only amendment we non schoolin folks know about ), they will never be taken away . Nor will they ever be ruled against in every other level of court under the sc, and then only win by a 5-4 margin, because it is in the constitution after all, and not up to some judge to interperet, because they never do that.

phinfan3411
09-24-2010, 06:08 AM
One more question that will bring us off track, but I would really like to know.

I am only interested in answers fom the few posters that talk about how ignorant posters like me, that may actually be concerned with the direction of muslims, or islam in general.

Taking your vast knowledge of Islam, do you believe, with the way the population is going, in this country, and other european countries that islam can PEACEFULLY, co-exist with other religons?

Rafiki
09-24-2010, 11:36 AM
I don't think you're ignorant phifan3411.

But I do believe that fear over Islamic influences in our country is overblown. People are generally the same. They have the same interests and same fears. People who follow Islam want a good job, a good future for their family, and want to be accepted in society instead of outcast. There is no subversive plot in Islam, in general, much as there is no subversive plot in Christianity or Judaism.

If you don't believe me, just take a look at the remarkable Sunni Awakening in Iraq. The Sunnis were presented with a choice: embrace the Sunni extremist Al Queda or embrace their bitter rivals the Shia and the Americans, who brought their people down from power. You will notice they chose peace, even though they knew they would have to make concessions with a Shia majority. They chose the path which would grant them prosperity and hope, and turned against Al Queda.

Locke
09-24-2010, 12:03 PM
One more question that will bring us off track, but I would really like to know.

I am only interested in answers fom the few posters that talk about how ignorant posters like me, that may actually be concerned with the direction of muslims, or islam in general.

Taking your vast knowledge of Islam, do you believe, with the way the population is going, in this country, and other european countries that islam can PEACEFULLY, co-exist with other religons?

You mean like they live peacefully the world over? Except for Israel and the occasional terrorist pocket, Muslims are very peaceful. In fact, despite what the media would show you here (all media, not just Fox), violence is condemned by the vast majority of Muslims. Just as an example, here is a link I found to a candlelight vigil held in Tehran, Iran in response to the 9/11 attacks.

http://www.bestirantravel.com/culture/wtc-vigil.html

Yup, big scary America-hating Iran held a candlelight vigil for the victims of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Muslims hate terrorists just as much as we do. Terrorists make the entire religion look bad, which they don't need since the Israel conflict does enough of that for them.

To answer your question, can they co-exist with other religions peacefully? Haven't they been doing that for decades already? There has always been a sizable Muslim population within the United States and Europe. It's not like they just magically appeared after the 9/11 attacks. In fact, outside of Israel, I can't think of any huge conflicts between Muslims and other religions in recent history, but I could just be overlooking something. History isn't my strong point.

I know I'm not one of the posters who calls you ignorant, but seeing as how I have extra insight into the specific topic, I thought I'd throw that out there...

phins_4_ever
09-24-2010, 04:56 PM
You mean like they live peacefully the world over? Except for Israel and the occasional terrorist pocket, Muslims are very peaceful. In fact, despite what the media would show you here (all media, not just Fox), violence is condemned by the vast majority of Muslims. Just as an example, here is a link I found to a candlelight vigil held in Tehran, Iran in response to the 9/11 attacks.

http://www.bestirantravel.com/culture/wtc-vigil.html

Yup, big scary America-hating Iran held a candlelight vigil for the victims of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Muslims hate terrorists just as much as we do. Terrorists make the entire religion look bad, which they don't need since the Israel conflict does enough of that for them.

To answer your question, can they co-exist with other religions peacefully? Haven't they been doing that for decades already? There has always been a sizable Muslim population within the United States and Europe. It's not like they just magically appeared after the 9/11 attacks. In fact, outside of Israel, I can't think of any huge conflicts between Muslims and other religions in recent history, but I could just be overlooking something. History isn't my strong point.

I know I'm not one of the posters who calls you ignorant, but seeing as how I have extra insight into the specific topic, I thought I'd throw that out there...

What a great post.

Every religion has its extremist pockets just like every political direction. It depends on the greater community to render these pockets obsolete. Fear mongering does the opposite.

phinfan3411
09-24-2010, 05:08 PM
Ok, I have heard some good arguements, but a few things I would like to throw out there, and rest assured, I have no problems with ANYBODY being here as long as they are here for the correct reasons.

If they are here to expand their horizons, both educationally, and financially, good for them, as long as they do it legally. I do have problems with those coming over to take advantage of us, and I am not saying muslims are, but trying to keep it straight.

The problem I have with Islam in general, is, as far as I know, please correct me if i am wrong, they are striving to be the ONLY religon, not a religon, thee religon no?

As far as I know, lying is considered fine, or encouraged, in the name of furthering islam. So they can tell non believers (infidels) anything they want to make us happy, like how peaceful their religon is despite the koran getting much more violent, the deeper you get into it.

I am not the only one who has noted this, are former star poster wayward noted that islam certainly had some "language" that needed to be addressed, in the koran, i would think. I was surprised to see a liberal point this out, and I thanked him on that post.

So tell me, am I really so far out in left field to be wary of this religon??

phinfan3411
09-24-2010, 05:28 PM
You mean like they live peacefully the world over? Except for Israel and the occasional terrorist pocket, Muslims are very peaceful. In fact, despite what the media would show you here (all media, not just Fox), violence is condemned by the vast majority of Muslims. Just as an example, here is a link I found to a candlelight vigil held in Tehran, Iran in response to the 9/11 attacks.

http://www.bestirantravel.com/culture/wtc-vigil.html

Yup, big scary America-hating Iran held a candlelight vigil for the victims of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Muslims hate terrorists just as much as we do. Terrorists make the entire religion look bad, which they don't need since the Israel conflict does enough of that for them.

To answer your question, can they co-exist with other religions peacefully? Haven't they been doing that for decades already? There has always been a sizable Muslim population within the United States and Europe. It's not like they just magically appeared after the 9/11 attacks. In fact, outside of Israel, I can't think of any huge conflicts between Muslims and other religions in recent history, but I could just be overlooking something. History isn't my strong point.

I know I'm not one of the posters who calls you ignorant, but seeing as how I have extra insight into the specific topic, I thought I'd throw that out there...


I would never call Iran "American hating".

I think you are kind of throwing us a ringer locke, Iran is not your run of the mill muslim country, much of the populace are actually educated in something other than the koran, which is not exactly run of the mill in most muslim countries.

I did not know they held a vigil though, but it does not surprise me much, and imo is not a fair example of most muslim countries.

I believe you saw the same newsreels I saw, and do not feel the need to hash it out again.

Dolphins9954
09-24-2010, 05:45 PM
One more question that will bring us off track, but I would really like to know.

I am only interested in answers fom the few posters that talk about how ignorant posters like me, that may actually be concerned with the direction of muslims, or islam in general.

Taking your vast knowledge of Islam, do you believe, with the way the population is going, in this country, and other european countries that islam can PEACEFULLY, co-exist with other religons?

I wouldn't call you ignorant. I would call Newt and people that support his stance ignorant to the constitution. I think the real question is can all religons peacefully co-exist with each other? I wouldn't just single out Islam. All religons have their bad moments in history and kill in the name of their religon.

phins_4_ever
09-24-2010, 06:36 PM
Ok, I have heard some good arguements, but a few things I would like to throw out there, and rest assured, I have no problems with ANYBODY being here as long as they are here for the correct reasons.

If they are here to expand their horizons, both educationally, and financially, good for them, as long as they do it legally. I do have problems with those coming over to take advantage of us, and I am not saying muslims are, but trying to keep it straight.

The problem I have with Islam in general, is, as far as I know, please correct me if i am wrong, they are striving to be the ONLY religon, not a religon, thee religon no?

As far as I know, lying is considered fine, or encouraged, in the name of furthering islam. So they can tell non believers (infidels) anything they want to make us happy, like how peaceful their religon is despite the koran getting much more violent, the deeper you get into it.

I am not the only one who has noted this, are former star poster wayward noted that islam certainly had some "language" that needed to be addressed, in the koran, i would think. I was surprised to see a liberal point this out, and I thanked him on that post.

So tell me, am I really so far out in left field to be wary of this religon??

Why do you have to use rhetoric such as 'strive to be the only religion'.

Every religion does that. Isn't there a religion in our country who only accepts 'one god'?

Every religion's book - be it the Bible or be it the Koran - has violence and death and peace. These books are written with the intend to be interpret and to identify yourself. They are broad written pieces so it can affect a large percentage of human beings.

Only a small fraction (at least at this point) subscribes to violence. The large majority of religious people are using religion to promote peace - that goes for Christianity as well as for Islam.

X-Pacolypse
09-24-2010, 08:04 PM
I wouldn't call you ignorant. I would call Newt and people that support his stance ignorant to the constitution. I think the real question is can all religons peacefully co-exist with each other? I wouldn't just single out Islam. All religons have their bad moments in history and kill in the name of their religon.

The answer is no. It will NEVER EVER happen. Not in a million years, not even in a billion years. Various religious sects have gone to war with one another for thousands of years. Shia vs. Sunni, Catholics vs. Jews, Catholics vs. Muslims, Catholics vs. Protestants, etc. I could go on, and on. Which is why I propose that we ban all religions and become a world of atheists.

CedarPhin
09-24-2010, 08:56 PM
I remember being in Beirut and meeting people that wouldn't come into my part of town because it was populated by Sunnis. The craziest people there though were the Druze.

shula_guy
09-24-2010, 11:04 PM
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/gingrich-ban-sharia-soviet-tyranny/


Someone tell Newt and his enthusiastic audience that there is a thing called the constitution.



Newt should just go ahead and tell us what he really wants. A Federal ban on Islam all together. Newt is a wack job.



That Newt sure is one heartless jerkoff to make a stand against another cultures justice system.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-7N5xy8Ztk



He really is a dick to oppose this type of justice. Deep down we all know that girl got what she deserved.

irish fin fan
09-24-2010, 11:11 PM
That Newt sure is one heartless jerkoff to make a stand against another cultures justice system.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-7N5xy8Ztk



He really is a dick to oppose this type of justice. Deep down we all know that girl got what she deserved.
That's why we have the constitution to prevent that from happening here.

shula_guy
09-24-2010, 11:14 PM
this is called a political move

Sharia law is in no way or form happening in the United States

doing this was to score points with his base by scaring them into thinking Sharia Law has any form in this country. We dont have Sharia law you idiot Gingrich fanatics, we have a constitution that forbids the establishment of religion

http://www.gofbw.com/news.asp?ID=10713



That’s the fear of Rifqa Bary, a 17-year-old from Columbus, Ohio, who ran away from home earlier this month to Florida. At least for now, the State of Florida believes there’s enough evidence of possible danger that the Department of Children and Families (DCF) has taken emergency protective custody of the girl.

“What’s at stake in this case is Rifqa Bary’s life and the lives of thousands of other people like her,” attorney John Stemberger told Florida Baptist Witness.

Bary’s fear of death for converting to Christianity is an all-too common reality for ex-Muslims across the world, according to a former Muslim who grew up in the Columbus mosque closely connected with the Bary family’s mosque.

shula_guy
09-24-2010, 11:30 PM
That's why we have the constitution to prevent that from happening here.

you guys make an interesting constitutional argument, I wont deny that. It makes it a difficult call tro make on weather ideals superceede mortality. My post was more to show the counter argument more then to actually argue youy it as my postion. I do think I favor newt on this one exception. Sharia laws needs to be rewritten before it can be accepted here but I slao get the idea of tolerating customs that I dont agree with. The thring is we are talking about a custom that allows a rapeds 13yr old be buried to her neck and stoned to death by the rapists and the rapists walk free. I believe in our constritution but this I think crosses the line too far to be tolerated here on our land. What if my religion required me to shoot and kill all liberals? Would you defend my religious right to do that? I think there are limits are and we as reasonable people need to agree on them. I am very careful about making any exceptions to what the constitution tells us our guidelines are but they guidlines and sometimes I think reasonable minds should be agble to at least have a civicl conversation. I personally do want shia law here in its purest form but I might be willing to accept certain compromises as long as we are assured that once one law is accepted there are safeguards from preventing it into the very problems there is in thier laws ans punisahments. I have not heard a garuntee like that offered so I stick with newt until something changes for the better. JMO

irish fin fan
09-24-2010, 11:44 PM
you guys make an interesting constitutional argument, I wont deny that. It makes it a difficult call tro make on weather ideals superceede mortality. My post was more to show the counter argument more then to actually argue youy it as my postion. I do think I favor newt on this one exception. Sharia laws needs to be rewritten before it can be accepted here but I slao get the idea of tolerating customs that I dont agree with. The thring is we are talking about a custom that allows a rapeds 13yr old be buried to her neck and stoned to death by the rapists and the rapists walk free. I believe in our constritution but this I think crosses the line too far to be tolerated here on our land. What if my religion required me to shoot and kill all liberals? Would you defend my religious right to do that? I think there are limits are and we as reasonable people need to agree on them. I am very careful about making any exceptions to what the constitution tells us our guidelines are but they guidlines and sometimes I think reasonable minds should be agble to at least have a civicl conversation. I personally do want shia law here in its purest form but I might be willing to accept certain compromises as long as we are assured that once one law is accepted there are safeguards from preventing it into the very problems there is in thier laws ans punisahments. I have not heard a garuntee like that offered so I stick with newt until something changes for the better. JMO
I agree with you, we don't want it here. Luckily we have a constitution that will prevent it from been enacted here.

Dolphins9954
09-25-2010, 12:03 AM
That Newt sure is one heartless jerkoff to make a stand against another cultures justice system.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-7N5xy8Ztk



He really is a dick to oppose this type of justice. Deep down we all know that girl got what she deserved.


Do you honestly believe that here in America. We would allow the rape of children? And go against the constitution, civil rights and liberty because of Sharia law? Are you that mad, paranoid and so susceptible to bs fear tactics and brainwashing? If so I seriously question your sanity. You are just as much a victim as the 13 year old. Instead it's your mind getting raped.

WSE
09-25-2010, 12:49 AM
http://www.gofbw.com/news.asp?ID=10713

you for some reason quoted me

what does this, in any way have to do with Newt fear mongering about sharia coming to the U.S.

Ok. A girl is scared for her life to convert. Touching story. Nothing to do with what I posted though

phinfan3411
09-25-2010, 01:46 PM
I will try to explain myself, even though it does not necessarily follow the op. I feel we, or this country will WITHOUT A DOUBT have serious problems with islam down the road. You can try and cover it up by saying that it is only a small percentage that are problems or militant, but this is simply not true.

Are any of you familiar with what is going on in france? My wife has family that travel there from time to time to visit some family that still live there, and some of the stories she told where beyond belief.

Maybe take a look at this blog with video to get a sample (easy to find, just google france, and muslim, then go to news):

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/publius-forum/2010/09/coming-to-your-nation-muslims-forcibly-take-over-french-street-for-prayers.html

I know this is not france, but this country, just like in most western countries, the muslim population is growing RAPIDLY.


In another political forum i participate in (turbobuick), even the most liberal poster has admitted having "concerns" with islam is certainly not crazy.

As far as I know, many imams (MANY IMAMS) have no trouble saying out loud what their plans are for basic world domination.

Not here though, everything is peachy keen, nothing to see here, peaceful religion, just "fear mongering".

irish fin fan
09-25-2010, 07:53 PM
I will try to explain myself, even though it does not necessarily follow the op. I feel we, or this country will WITHOUT A DOUBT have serious problems with islam down the road. You can try and cover it up by saying that it is only a small percentage that are problems or militant, but this is simply not true.

Are any of you familiar with what is going on in france? My wife has family that travel there from time to time to visit some family that still live there, and some of the stories she told where beyond belief.

Maybe take a look at this blog with video to get a sample (easy to find, just google france, and muslim, then go to news):

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/publius-forum/2010/09/coming-to-your-nation-muslims-forcibly-take-over-french-street-for-prayers.html

I know this is not france, but this country, just like in most western countries, the muslim population is growing RAPIDLY.


In another political forum i participate in (turbobuick), even the most liberal poster has admitted having "concerns" with islam is certainly not crazy.

As far as I know, many imams (MANY IMAMS) have no trouble saying out loud what their plans are for basic world domination.

Not here though, everything is peachy keen, nothing to see here, peaceful religion, just "fear mongering".

I frequently hear right wing media scream "well, look what happening in France with Muslims". France and, to lesser degree, the UK have entirely different circumstances to the US. Most of the emigrants to France/UK come from their former colonies. In the case of France a lot of them end up in ghettos with little hope for employment, higher education or a better life, although better than were they came from. Like everywhere else when you have extreme poverty it will breed extremists.

That is the main problem with most of these Muslim countries, extreme poverty and very little education which allows the die hards to recruit impressionable young people to extreme causes. It's ironic that Islam was very advanced scientifically at a time in Europe when Christianity was busy burning witches at the stake and other extreme horrors which is conveniently ignored by right wingers when talking about Islam. Now Islamic countries contribute nothing of a scientific nature and are poor which in turns breeds extremists.

Now, what is the answer to reduce this extremism? There has to be a solution to the Palestine question. Solve that and you remove 90%, if not 100%, of the rallying cry of extremists. Secondly, if these countries have most of their children educated properly you will A) bring modern industry in to increase the wealth of the people B) reduce the influence of extremists on those children.

Education and increasing the wealth of people in those countries is the only way of reducing friction between the religions in my opinion.

phinfan3411
09-25-2010, 10:02 PM
I frequently hear right wing media scream "well, look what happening in France with Muslims". France and, to lesser degree, the UK have entirely different circumstances to the US. Most of the emigrants to France/UK come from their former colonies. In the case of France a lot of them end up in ghettos with little hope for employment, higher education or a better life, although better than were they came from. Like everywhere else when you have extreme poverty it will breed extremists.

That is the main problem with most of these Muslim countries, extreme poverty and very little education which allows the die hards to recruit impressionable young people to extreme causes. It's ironic that Islam was very advanced scientifically at a time in Europe when Christianity was busy burning witches at the stake and other extreme horrors which is conveniently ignored by right wingers when talking about Islam. Now Islamic countries contribute nothing of a scientific nature and are poor which in turns breeds extremists.

Now, what is the answer to reduce this extremism? There has to be a solution to the Palestine question. Solve that and you remove 90%, if not 100%, of the rallying cry of extremists. Secondly, if these countries have most of their children educated properly you will A) bring modern industry in to increase the wealth of the people B) reduce the influence of extremists on those children.

Education and increasing the wealth of people in those countries is the only way of reducing friction between the religions in my opinion.

Well, maybe some of that would be correct, but I am not a right winger, I really love how (insert appropriate name here) try to explain away real or perceived problems based on ones partisanship.

I really dislike both sides, politicians, as a whole disgust me, as do the extremes, especially, on either side, as I feel that is one of our countries biggest problems.

I picked france because it is the westernized country with the highest percentage of muslim population, creating perhaps, a map of where other western countries may be heading, like it said in that video.

If I were a right winger, would I be all for universal healthcare? Would I be for gay marriage? Would I be pro choice?

I will agree with you on education helping with the fight against extremism, but as far as I know, many of the most notorious terrorist come from VERY affluent, and well educated families.

Is it so frickin hard to get any of you guys to admit (like your hero wayward did) that there are some "language" issues that need to be dealt with as far as islam is concerned?

There are many more problems with the social aspect of islam that lead to problems, than just education and wealth. The fact that males have very little interaction with females is another if you really think about it, how is that going to be changed?

Just for the record, I do not watch right or left wing media, waste of time.

irish fin fan
09-25-2010, 10:17 PM
Well, maybe some of that would be correct, but I am not a right winger, I really love how (insert appropriate name here) try to explain away real or perceived problems based on ones partisanship.

I really dislike both sides, politicians, as a whole disgust me, as do the extremes, especially, on either side, as I feel that is one of our countries biggest problems.

I picked france because it is the westernized country with the highest percentage of muslim population, creating perhaps, a map of where other western countries may be heading, like it said in that video.

If I were a right winger, would I be all for universal healthcare? Would I be for gay marriage? Would I be pro choice?

I will agree with you on education helping with the fight against extremism, but as far as I know, many of the most notorious terrorist come from VERY affluent, and well educated families.

Is it so frickin hard to get any of you guys to admit (like your hero wayward did) that there are some "language" issues that need to be dealt with as far as islam is concerned?

There are many more problems with the social aspect of islam that lead to problems, than just education and wealth. The fact that males have very little interaction with females is another if you really think about it, how is that going to be changed?

Just for the record, I do not watch right or left wing media, waste of time.
I never said you were right wing, I referred to right wing media.

Not sure you what you mean by "by you guys and language issues', please elaborate.

As for their female interaction, I suppose it depends on what country you want to pick to use as an example. Iran was a fairly open country before the nut jobs took it over where women could wear whatever they want etc. Once again go back to period of time not so long ago and women couldn't vote in the western world.

I look at Islam as something that is about 300/400 years behind Christianity. Just like back then education helped to lessen the dictatorship that the church had on peoples lives. Will eduction change peoples outlook over night, of course not. However, in time, peoples way of thinking will change.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-26-2010, 07:50 PM
Be Prepared:



Islam and Sharia Law are coming to America May 18th, 2010 6:21 am PT

http://www.examiner.com/statehouse-in-santa-ana/islam-and-sharia-law-are-coming-to-america

Excerpts:

A movement to allow sharia to set regulations that pertain to marriage, divorce, inheritance, and custody, is now expanding into the United States.

These not only authorize organized state violence, but also encourage male violence against women within the family and in society. While precise statistics are scarce, the UN estimates thousands of women are killed annually in the family honor.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-26-2010, 07:53 PM
I wonder what this SECURITY report means?




Shariah a danger to U.S., security pros say

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/sep/14/shariah-a-danger-to-us-security-pros-say/

Obama policy change urged

7:53 p.m., Tuesday, September 14, 2010

A panel of national security experts who worked under Republican and Democratic presidents is urging the Obama administration to abandon its stance that Islam is not linked to terrorism, arguing that radical Muslims are using Islamic law to subvert the United States.


Included in the team of former defense, law enforcement and intelligence officials were Clinton administration CIA Director R. James Woolsey.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-26-2010, 07:56 PM
The Quran should be the highest authority in America,




Omar Ahmad, founder of CAIR had stated in 1998 that:

“If you choose to live here [in America]… you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam. Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Quran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth.”

1Hawdolfin4L
09-26-2010, 07:58 PM
You have been warned...


WH Islamic Advisor: Abdurahman Alamoudi at the White House -



Alamoudi had claimed in 1996, that: “either we do it now or we do it after a hundred years, but this country will become a Muslim country.”

1Hawdolfin4L
09-26-2010, 08:03 PM
What is the ideology behind this, and if I am a FAITHFUL convert, why am I called a TERRORIST? (of course this is not me)


Interpretations wanted


Hadith 9:4 "Wherever you find infidels kill them; for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."

Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).
48:29: "Those who follow Muhammad are merciless for the unbelievers but kind to each other."

phinfan3411
09-27-2010, 04:10 PM
What is the ideology behind this, and if I am a FAITHFUL convert, why am I called a TERRORIST? (of course this is not me)


Interpretations wanted


Hadith 9:4 "Wherever you find infidels kill them; for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."

Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).
48:29: "Those who follow Muhammad are merciless for the unbelievers but kind to each other."

I am talking to ALL THE PEOPLE in this thread.


It is this "language" that I speak of, please do not tell me, all of you educated internet wonders did not know of this, I have even seen videos on this from europe.


I am not the smartest guy in the world, but it would seem to me most reasonable men would be able to look at much of this evidence and come to the conclusion islam just may bring us a little trouble here in our own country, not to mention the rest of the world.

Dolphins9954
09-27-2010, 05:44 PM
What is the ideology behind this, and if I am a FAITHFUL convert, why am I called a TERRORIST? (of course this is not me)


Interpretations wanted


Hadith 9:4 "Wherever you find infidels kill them; for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."

Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).
48:29: "Those who follow Muhammad are merciless for the unbelievers but kind to each other."


You know we can play the same game with the bible or many other religons.

Dolphins9954
09-27-2010, 05:46 PM
I am talking to ALL THE PEOPLE in this thread.


It is this "language" that I speak of, please do not tell me, all of you educated internet wonders did not know of this, I have even seen videos on this from europe.


I am not the smartest guy in the world, but it would seem to me most reasonable men would be able to look at much of this evidence and come to the conclusion islam just may bring us a little trouble here in our own country, not to mention the rest of the world.

So what should we do about it?

Ban Islam? Which is unconstitutional.
Round up and kill all muslims?
Nuke every muslim country in the world?
Pull a Hitler on all muslims?

1Hawdolfin4L
09-27-2010, 06:42 PM
You know we can play the same game with the bible




Find and give me a quote by JESUS that justifies violence.





So what should we do about it?



1. Ban sharia law in America.
2. Educate the Muslims about the true ideology of the prophet Mohammad, which teaches to kill your neighbor, and the vast political violence.

If many Muslims are truly non-violent, then in their own heart they must flee from Islam, because it is not of them.

Many Muslims are Muslim is because they were BORN into the religion and cannot flee for fear of punishment.

cmax13
09-27-2010, 07:18 PM
i received this in an email and have checked snopes. nothing there, true or false. but the book is listed on amazon, etc. so i think there's some kind of research behind these numbers. but it's pretty scary on the surface...

If you don't read anything else today, please take the time to read every word of this. It will certainly
make us realize how important it is to get Islam stopped before it can go any further. You who are
in the USA can see what Islam has done in other countries (remember, I am now in India ) and what it
will do to our beloved America if we don't get it stopped before it grows any more.








Subject: - Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat

If you have ever read anything please read this from start to finish
adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The
Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat

Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life.

Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components.

Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.

When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse
societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.

Here's how it works:

As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given
country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving
minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:

United States -- Muslim 0.6%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1.8%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their
percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the
introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby
securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure
on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with
threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them
to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law.
The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we
are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam and
results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen
daily, particularly in Muslim sections in:

Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 15%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad
militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks,
and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of
all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic
cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax
placed on infidels, such as in:

Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run
ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the
infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and
in some ways is on-going in:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim,
the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust
by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

'Before I was nine, I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel. -- Leon Uris, 'The Haj'

It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under
100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations
live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which
they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these
ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim
religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into
the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only
the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with
death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and
extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate.

Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But
their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus,
Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the
world's population by the end of this century.
Well, boys and girls, today we are letting the fox guard the henhouse.
The wolves will be herding the sheep!

Obama appoints two devout Muslims to Homeland Security posts. Doesn't
this make you feel safer already?

Obama and Janet Napolitano appoint Arif Alikhan, a devout Muslim, as
Assistant Secretary for Policy Development.

DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano swore in Kareem Shora, a devout Muslim
who was born in Damascus , Syria , as ADC National Executive Director as a
member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC).

NOTE: Has anyone ever heard a new government official being identified
as a devout Catholic, a devout Jew or a devout Protestant.. .? Just
wondering.

Devout Muslims being appointed to critical Homeland Security positions?
Doesn't this make you feel safer already??

That should make the US ' homeland much safer, huh!!
Was it not "Devout Muslim men" that flew planes into U.S. buildings 8
years ago?

Was it not a Devout Muslim who killed 13 at Fort Hood ?

Also: This is very interesting and we all need to read it from start to finish. Maybe this is why our American Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities. Can a good Muslim be a good American? This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years. The following is his reply:
Theologically - no . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon God of Arabia
Religiously � no� Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)
Scripturally - no� Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.
Geographically � no� Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.
Socially - no� Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews..
Politically - no�Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America , the great Satan.
Domestically - no� Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34)
Intellectually - no� Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.
Philosophically - no� Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression.. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.
Spiritually - no� Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.
Therefore, after much study and deliberation. ...
Perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS
in this country. - - - They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Americans.
Call it what you wish, it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future. The religious war is bigger than we know or understand.
Can a muslim be a good soldier???

Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, opened fire at Ft. Hood and Killed 13. He is a good Muslim!!!
Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within.
SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.
THE MARINES WANT THIS TO ROLL ALL OVER THE U.S.
Please don't delete this until you send it on.

Rafiki
09-27-2010, 08:39 PM
This is fear mongering. We have to call it what it is. People could say the same things about Jews and the terrible punishments for various sins contained in the Torah and Old Testament. People could point to statistics about Blacks as a population percentage of countries world-wide to prove that they are violent and rebellious. People could say that Christians have historically killed more people for God than any other religion, and that Christianity should be stopped. People could say that Whites start world wars, the greatest conflicts with the most causalities.

Reality bears out that almost all Muslims enjoy and desire peace. There is a lunatic fringe, and perhaps Muslims should do more to squash it, but it is a fringe--not a representative body of the whole.

phinfan3411
09-27-2010, 08:40 PM
So what should we do about it?

Ban Islam? Which is unconstitutional.
Round up and kill all muslims?
Nuke every muslim country in the world?
Pull a Hitler on all muslims?


You are trying to make me look foolish, and I have always complimented you on what a great poster you are...


I do not know what we are supposed to do about it, never pretended I did. The first step is realizing you HAVE a problem, which would be nice, but it does not seem we can even get to that point, especially on this forum.

phinfan3411
09-27-2010, 08:46 PM
This is fear mongering. We have to call it what it is. People could say the same things about Jews and the terrible punishments for various sins contained in the Torah and Old Testament. People could point to statistics about Blacks as a population percentage of countries world-wide to prove that they are violent and rebellious. People could say that Christians have historically killed more people for God than any other religion, and that Christianity should be stopped. People could say that Whites start world wars, the greatest conflicts with the most causalities.

Reality bears out that almost all Muslims enjoy and desire peace. There is a lunatic fringe, and perhaps Muslims should do more to squash it, but it is a fringe--not a representative body of the whole.

I think you are one of the best posters on this board, but do not agree with you here.

Did you watch the video?? I believe you are mistaken about the numbers, maybe there is a "lunatic fringe", but what do you call those thousands in the streets of france, a fringe?

There may be a finge that want to blow themselves up for allah, but I would say 75-80 percent that want to take over a country or more.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-27-2010, 09:30 PM
This is fear mongering. We have to call it what it is. People could say the same things about Jews and the terrible punishments for various sins contained in the Torah and Old Testament. People could point to statistics about Blacks as a population percentage of countries world-wide to prove that they are violent and rebellious. People could say that Christians have historically killed more people for God than any other religion, and that Christianity should be stopped.





Rafiki, your logic is wrong.

None of the groups that you mention are trying to take over the world, especially through violence, for the sole purpose of failure of converting to their religion.



The Christians? Find a scripture that is attributed to Jesus that promotes violence or any sort of killing.

Mohammad ordered the killings.

If a so-called Christian does violence, it is of their own ideology, not of Jesus.
If a terrorist does violence, it is of the ideology of Mohammad.

CashInFist
09-27-2010, 09:45 PM
You know we can play the same game with the bible or many other religons.


You can?

No you can not. Stop lying to try to prove a false point.

CashInFist
09-27-2010, 09:47 PM
So what should we do about it?

Ban Islam? Which is unconstitutional.
Round up and kill all muslims?
Nuke every muslim country in the world?
Pull a Hitler on all muslims?

Option one with an amendment.

WSE
09-27-2010, 10:01 PM
You can?

No you can not. Stop lying to try to prove a false point.

sure you can. Religion can be used to say whatever you want

the south used excerpts from the bible to defend slavery back in the day. It happens. Religion is twisted and made to say what you want, christianity, Islam, or any other religion

CashInFist
09-27-2010, 10:09 PM
sure you can. Religion can be used to say whatever you want

the south used excerpts from the bible to defend slavery back in the day. It happens. Religion is twisted and made to say what you want, christianity, Islam, or any other religion

Prove it. Another person lying to prove a point. There is nothing on the level of islam when comparing brutality to others.

Dolphins9954
09-27-2010, 10:10 PM
i received this in an email and have checked snopes. nothing there, true or false. but the book is listed on amazon, etc. so i think there's some kind of research behind these numbers. but it's pretty scary on the surface...

If you don't read anything else today, please take the time to read every word of this. It will certainly
make us realize how important it is to get Islam stopped before it can go any further. You who are
in the USA can see what Islam has done in other countries (remember, I am now in India ) and what it
will do to our beloved America if we don't get it stopped before it grows any more.








Subject: - Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat

If you have ever read anything please read this from start to finish
adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The
Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat

Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life.

Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components.

Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.

When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse
societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.

Here's how it works:

As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given
country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving
minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:

United States -- Muslim 0.6%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1.8%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their
percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the
introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby
securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure
on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with
threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them
to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law.
The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we
are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam and
results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen
daily, particularly in Muslim sections in:

Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 15%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad
militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks,
and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of
all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic
cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax
placed on infidels, such as in:

Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run
ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the
infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and
in some ways is on-going in:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim,
the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust
by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

'Before I was nine, I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel. -- Leon Uris, 'The Haj'

It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under
100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations
live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which
they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these
ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim
religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into
the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only
the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with
death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and
extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate.

Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But
their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus,
Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the
world's population by the end of this century.
Well, boys and girls, today we are letting the fox guard the henhouse.
The wolves will be herding the sheep!

Obama appoints two devout Muslims to Homeland Security posts. Doesn't
this make you feel safer already?

Obama and Janet Napolitano appoint Arif Alikhan, a devout Muslim, as
Assistant Secretary for Policy Development.

DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano swore in Kareem Shora, a devout Muslim
who was born in Damascus , Syria , as ADC National Executive Director as a
member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC).

NOTE: Has anyone ever heard a new government official being identified
as a devout Catholic, a devout Jew or a devout Protestant.. .? Just
wondering.

Devout Muslims being appointed to critical Homeland Security positions?
Doesn't this make you feel safer already??

That should make the US ' homeland much safer, huh!!
Was it not "Devout Muslim men" that flew planes into U.S. buildings 8
years ago?

Was it not a Devout Muslim who killed 13 at Fort Hood ?

Also: This is very interesting and we all need to read it from start to finish. Maybe this is why our American Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities. Can a good Muslim be a good American? This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years. The following is his reply:
Theologically - no . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon God of Arabia
Religiously � no� Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)
Scripturally - no� Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.
Geographically � no� Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.
Socially - no� Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews..
Politically - no�Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America , the great Satan.
Domestically - no� Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34)
Intellectually - no� Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.
Philosophically - no� Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression.. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.
Spiritually - no� Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.
Therefore, after much study and deliberation. ...
Perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS
in this country. - - - They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Americans.
Call it what you wish, it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future. The religious war is bigger than we know or understand.
Can a muslim be a good soldier???

Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, opened fire at Ft. Hood and Killed 13. He is a good Muslim!!!
Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within.
SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.
THE MARINES WANT THIS TO ROLL ALL OVER THE U.S.
Please don't delete this until you send it on.

Kill all muslims. At least till they are only 2% of the population. Get the ovens and gas chambers ready.

Dolphins9954
09-27-2010, 10:13 PM
You know we can play the same game with the bible




Find and give me a quote by JESUS that justifies violence.





So what should we do about it?



1. Ban sharia law in America.
2. Educate the Muslims about the true ideology of the prophet Mohammad, which teaches to kill your neighbor, and the vast political violence.

If many Muslims are truly non-violent, then in their own heart they must flee from Islam, because it is not of them.

Many Muslims are Muslim is because they were BORN into the religion and cannot flee for fear of punishment.


The constitution already bans sharia law!!!!!!!!

Why are you guys blind to that? Get the blinders off. As for violence in the bible.....Especially violence by god.....Do I really have to go there?

Dolphins9954
09-27-2010, 10:14 PM
You can?

No you can not. Stop lying to try to prove a false point.


So there is no violence by god or violent punishments for not "following" god in the bible?

Dolphins9954
09-27-2010, 10:15 PM
Option one with an amendment.


You really think you will get the majority of states to amend the constitution to ban Islam?

Dolphins9954
09-27-2010, 10:19 PM
sure you can. Religion can be used to say whatever you want

the south used excerpts from the bible to defend slavery back in the day. It happens. Religion is twisted and made to say what you want, christianity, Islam, or any other religion

Descendants of Cain. That was the justification used for slavery and racism towards blacks for many years.

CashInFist
09-27-2010, 10:24 PM
So there is no violence by god or violent punishments for not "following" god in the bible?


You and WSe said you could compare the Bible to islam. Yet you were both lying, and talking out your a sses.

Dolphins9954
09-27-2010, 10:33 PM
You and WSe said you could compare the Bible to islam. Yet you were both lying, and talking out your a sses.

We could compare violence quite easily without much work at all. Especially throughout history. But enough already I might get stoned to death.

CashInFist
09-27-2010, 10:36 PM
We could compare violence quite easily without much work at all. Especially throughout history. But enough already I might get stoned to death.


Nice cop-out. If you can not post any facts don't lie please...

There is nothing in the Bible that compares to islam's book of nonsense.

Dolphins9954
09-27-2010, 10:45 PM
Nice cop-out. If you can not post any facts don't lie please...

There is nothing in the Bible that compares to islam's book of nonsense.

12.10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die, because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
17.2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman who hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God in transgressing His covenant,
17.3 and hath gone and served other gods and worshiped them, either the sun or moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded,
17.4 and it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it and inquired diligently, and behold, it be true and the thing certain that such abomination is wrought in Israel,
17.5 then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman who has committed that wicked thing unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones till they die.
17.6 At the mouth of two witnesses or three witnesses shall he that is worthy of death be put to death, but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

Stonning to death punishment for disobidient sons.

21.21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, so that he die. So shalt thou put evil away from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.

Stonning to death punishment for non virgin women.
22.20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel, (unmarried women)
22.21 then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die, because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father’s house; so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

Death punishment for adultery.
22.22 “If a man be found lying with a woman married to a husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman and the woman; so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

Stoning to death punishment for virgin women for adultery.
22.23 If a damsel who is a virgin be betrothed unto a husband, and a man find her in the city and lie with her,
22.24 then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones, that they die — the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city, and the man,because he hath humbled his neighbor’s wife; so thou shalt put away evil from among you.


I agree total nonsense.

CashInFist
09-27-2010, 10:54 PM
12.10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die, because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
17.2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman who hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God in transgressing His covenant,
17.3 and hath gone and served other gods and worshiped them, either the sun or moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded,
17.4 and it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it and inquired diligently, and behold, it be true and the thing certain that such abomination is wrought in Israel,
17.5 then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman who has committed that wicked thing unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones till they die.
17.6 At the mouth of two witnesses or three witnesses shall he that is worthy of death be put to death, but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

Stonning to death punishment for disobidient sons.

21.21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, so that he die. So shalt thou put evil away from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.

Stonning to death punishment for non virgin women.
22.20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel, (unmarried women)
22.21 then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die, because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father’s house; so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

Death punishment for adultery.
22.22 “If a man be found lying with a woman married to a husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman and the woman; so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

Stoning to death punishment for virgin women for adultery.
22.23 If a damsel who is a virgin be betrothed unto a husband, and a man find her in the city and lie with her,
22.24 then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones, that they die — the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city, and the man,because he hath humbled his neighbor’s wife; so thou shalt put away evil from among you.


I agree total nonsense.


New Testament need only apply please. And none of those are as bad as killing someone that does not believe in bslam to gain favor in Heaven...

Dolphins9954
09-27-2010, 10:59 PM
New Testament need only apply please. And none of those are as bad as killing someone that does not believe in bslam to gain favor in Heaven...


You said the bible didn't you? So I guess we're playing the "selective" game now. You really think killing people who worship other gods, commit adultery, are not virgins or disobidient sons. Doesn't compare to the same nonsense we get with sharia law? You're blinded by your religion just like they are.

CashInFist
09-27-2010, 11:12 PM
You said the bible didn't you? So I guess we're playing the "selective" game now. You really think killing people who worship other gods, commit adultery, are not virgins or disobidient sons. Doesn't compare to the same nonsense we get with sharia law? You're blinded by your religion just like they are.

New Testament dude...Jesus Christ...ever heard of him?

That is the ONLY Bible.

Dolphins9954
09-27-2010, 11:24 PM
New Testament dude...Jesus Christ...ever heard of him?

That is the ONLY Bible.


Let's burn the old testament then.

phins_4_ever
09-27-2010, 11:48 PM
You know we can play the same game with the bible
Find and give me a quote by JESUS that justifies violence.</quote>

You gave quotes from the Koran. So it is justified to give quotes from the Bible.

[QUOTE]Deuteronomy 13:6-9
6"(A (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+13%3A6-9%2C1+Kings+18%3A40&version=NASB#cen-NASB-5279A))If your brother, your mother's son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, '(B (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+13%3A6-9%2C1+Kings+18%3A40&version=NASB#cen-NASB-5279B))Let us go and serve other gods' (whom neither you nor your fathers have known, 7of the gods of the peoples who are around you, near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end),
8(C (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+13%3A6-9%2C1+Kings+18%3A40&version=NASB#cen-NASB-5281C))you shall not yield to him or listen to him; (D (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+13%3A6-9%2C1+Kings+18%3A40&version=NASB#cen-NASB-5281D))and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him.
9"(E (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+13%3A6-9%2C1+Kings+18%3A40&version=NASB#cen-NASB-5282E))But you shall surely kill him; (F (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+13%3A6-9%2C1+Kings+18%3A40&version=NASB#cen-NASB-5282F))your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

Hosea 13:16-"Samaria is held guilty, for she has rebelled against her God, They shall fall by the sword, Their infants shall be dashed to pieces, and their women with child ripped open."
5.Psalms 137: 8-9-"O Daughter of Babylon, who are to be destroyed, Happy the one who repays you as you have served us! Happy the one who takes and dashes your little ones against the rock!" We can do this all day.



So what should we do about it?




1. Ban sharia law in America.
2. Educate the Muslims about the true ideology of the prophet Mohammad, which teaches to kill your neighbor, and the vast political violence.

If many Muslims are truly non-violent, then in their own heart they must flee from Islam, because it is not of them.

Many Muslims are Muslim is because they were BORN into the religion and cannot flee for fear of punishment.

Based on the quotes I can change your entire paragraph and use Christianity instead of Islam.

What is really bothersome is your #2

2. Educate the Muslims about the true ideology of the prophet Mohammad, which teaches to kill your neighbor, and the vast political violence.You surely are not suggesting re-education camps.:err:

irish fin fan
09-27-2010, 11:54 PM
New Testament dude...Jesus Christ...ever heard of him?

That is the ONLY Bible.
Quit with the nonsense of choosing which testament you want to make your point. Where does all the creationism nonsense, come from? The old testament, yet Christians have no problem quoting that from the old testament when it suits them.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 01:02 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity)
Christianity (from the Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Language) word Xριστός, Khristos, "Christ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ)", literally "anointed one") is a monotheistic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism#Christian_view) religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#cite_note-Monotheism-0) based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus) as presented in the New Testament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_view_on_Jesus%27_life).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#cite_note-1)

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#cite_note-1)

http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/index.htm

(http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/index.htm)
Christianity was founded in the early 1st century AD, with the teaching, miracles, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.



http://www.allaboutreligion.org/history-of-christianity.htm

(http://www.allaboutreligion.org/history-of-christianity.htm)
History of Christianity: The Beginning of the Faith
History of Christianity -- how did it all start? Christianity started about 2000 years ago in Judea (present-day Israel) with Jesus Christ and His faithful group of disciples.










CHRISTIANITY began with Jesus CHRIST (Christian)

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 01:08 AM
Jesus Christ supersedes the Old Testament.

Example

Old Testament - they stoned adulterers

New Testament - Jesus said "who ever is without sin can cast the 1st stone." (everybody has sin, so no one cast a stone.)

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 01:10 AM
Mohammad teaches to kill your neighbor.

Jesus teaches to love your neighbor.



Mohammad teaches to kill your enemy.

Jesus teaches to love your enemy.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 01:17 AM
[QUOTE=1Hawdolfin4L;1063593393]You know we can play the same game with the bible
Find and give me a quote by JESUS that justifies violence.</quote>

You gave quotes from the Koran. So it is justified to give quotes from the Bible.

We can do this all day.



So what should we do about it?




Based on the quotes I can change your entire paragraph and use Christianity instead of Islam.

What is really bothersome is your #2
You surely are not suggesting re-education camps.:err:





WHAT is the teachings of Mohammad?

Compare them to the teachings of JESUS.

How about doing that.

JUST show me ONE please I beg of you, find a single verse about JESUS saying to kill, stone or behead anybody.


I don't know what religion you are, or if you are at all.

But if you are not a Muslim, Mohammad would kill you. Did you get that?




Now if a Muslim doesn't believe in killings, then they should get out, because ISLAM is about KILLING.

CedarPhin
09-28-2010, 01:18 AM
You guys know that the Muslims recognize Jesus and Moses as prophets right? That the Koran is basically the Old Testament?

I'm moving this to the religion forum.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 01:22 AM
[/URL] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity)This is Christianity






[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity)
Christianity (from the Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Language) word Xριστός, Khristos, "Christ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ)", literally "anointed one") is a monotheistic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism#Christian_view) religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#cite_note-Monotheism-0) based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus) as presented in the New Testament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_view_on_Jesus%27_life).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#cite_note-1)

CedarPhin
09-28-2010, 01:23 AM
Mohammad teaches to kill your neighbor.

Jesus teaches to love your neighbor.



Mohammad teaches to kill your enemy.

Jesus teaches to love your enemy.

This is completely false.

CedarPhin
09-28-2010, 01:29 AM
Option one with an amendment.

Aren't you always bitching about "big government"? Isn't this yet another form of it?

CedarPhin
09-28-2010, 01:36 AM
Like anything, you have a fringe that causes problems for others. As with anything, you're going to have extremists. Islam has Hezbollah and AQ. Christianity has Timothy McVeigh and others.

I've traveled around the Middle East, and I've never had a problem with anyone over there. For the most part, they don't like our government, but they do like us.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 01:44 AM
The constitution already bans sharia law!!!!!!!!

Why are you guys blind to that? Get the blinders off. As for violence in the bible.....Especially violence by god.....Do I really have to go there?


Then why was this released just last week? And also the older article below?



Shariah a danger to U.S., security pros say

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/sep/14/shariah-a-danger-to-us-security-pros-say/

Obama policy change urged

7:53 p.m., Tuesday, September 14, 2010

A panel of national security experts who worked under Republican and Democratic presidents is urging the Obama administration to abandon its stance that Islam is not linked to terrorism, arguing that radical Muslims are using Islamic law to subvert the United States.

Included in the team of former defense, law enforcement and intelligence officials were Clinton administration CIA Director R. James Woolsey.






Islam and Sharia Law are coming to America May 18th, 2010 6:21 am PT

http://www.examiner.com/statehouse-in-santa-ana/islam-and-sharia-law-are-coming-to-america (http://www.examiner.com/statehouse-in-santa-ana/islam-and-sharia-law-are-coming-to-america)

(http://www.examiner.com/statehouse-in-santa-ana/islam-and-sharia-law-are-coming-to-america)

Excerpts:

A movement to allow sharia to set regulations that pertain to marriage, divorce, inheritance, and custody, is now expanding into the United States.

These not only authorize organized state violence, but also encourage male violence against women within the family and in society. While precise statistics are scarce, the UN estimates thousands of women are killed annually (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.htmlamily%20honor) in the family honor.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 01:46 AM
this is completely false.


prove it!!!

CedarPhin
09-28-2010, 01:56 AM
As to Sharia law, our court systems are never going to be taken over by radical Muslims who will force it down our throats. It's all fearmongering, and a microcosm of what's going on in our system today.

The problem with DC right now is that the Democrats are spending left and right and center and burying the country, while at the same time, the GOP is fighting things they think that they can win now, like anti-Islam feelings, anti-abortion, and pissing and moaning about gay marriage.

Screw that.

Let's work on getting unemployment back to 3.5%, get the Dollar back above the Russian Ruble, stop the unions from trying to bankrupt each and every city and state that they can. Let's bring manufacturing back to America, and start drilling our own oil so that I'm not stuck paying astronomical prices to fill up my Mustang. After we figure that out, we can look at issues such as abortion, gay marriage, and Sharia law, as those things don't affect the bottom of the barrel economic and employment situations in this country right now. So are they really that important? Not to me right now they're not.

The problem in DC right now is that party doesn't matter much because whatever side of the aisle they're on, their priorities are ****ed up and they aren't helping this country do anything than get closer to having the plug pulled.

Like Charlie Rangel. I think he's an asshat, but while they're focused on adding another ethics case to his paperwork, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd are allowing ****ed up organizations like the Federal Reserve and Treasury Dept. to get policing powers and are having financially disastrous agencies oversee a group who is responsible for "educating" the public of fiscal responsibility and they don't have anybody putting up a fight.

It's time to pay attention and focus on what's important.

CedarPhin
09-28-2010, 01:59 AM
prove it!!!

I'm sure it's the norm in Wahhabism (the radical Saudi version of Islam), but most Muslims you meet don't point a gun or brandish a knife at you and tell you to convert or die.

CedarPhin
09-28-2010, 02:16 AM
If you're talking about the term Jihad, that term isn't even mentioned in the Koran.

Individually, Jihad refers to the struggle of one to be virtuous and to be submissive to God in all aspects of life, which comes from the term Jahada.

Economic Jihad, which is when one spends money to improve the conditions of those who are less-fortunate.

Physical Jihad, where one fights in retribution against oppression, tyranny, and exploitation.

Jihad on the battlefield is to be used as a last resort.

Of course, you're always going to have a few nutjobs, like the Taliban, Saudis, or those *******s in Hezbollah, but all in all, it's not the norm for most Muslims.

The thing with Islam is that there is no central authority on the religion itself, so you're always going to have to rely on different interpretations by various clerics. So yeah, there may be some nutjobs who preach Death to America, but that's not the case with all of them.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 02:16 AM
I'm sure it's the norm in Wahhabism (the radical Saudi version of Islam), but most Muslims you meet don't point a gun or brandish a knife at you and tell you to convert or die.


I believe most Muslims are peaceful, but we are not talking about them.

WE are talking about MOHAMMAD. WHAT was he thinking, what is his ideology, his philosophy?

All it takes is just a handful of FAITHFUL followers who follow his ideology to the T as they would say.




Jesus toward enemies



Matt. 5:43-46


“There is a saying, Love your friends and hate your enemies.

But I say: Love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you!

In that way you will be acting as true sons of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust too.

If you love only those who love you, what good is that?






Mohammad to enemies



Qur'an:47:4


"So, when you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 02:24 AM
Of course, you're always going to have a few nutjobs, like the Taliban, Saudis, or those *******s in Hezbollah, but all in all, it's not the norm for most Muslims.




Why are these guys the nut jobs, if they are following exactly what Mohammad wants and says?

All the others are apostates, not believing in their prophet and his sayings.

CedarPhin
09-28-2010, 02:28 AM
Why are these guys the nut jobs, if they are following exactly what Mohammad wants and says?

All the others are apostates, not believing in their prophet and his sayings.

They're just Islam's version(s) of Tim McVeigh.

You just contradicted yourself anyway. Your post above, you say that most Muslims aren't violent, and then you turn around and say that the Extremists are the mainstream, which is hardly the case.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 02:46 AM
Descendants of Cain. That was the justification used for slavery and racism towards blacks for many years.


This is very, very strange. Why?

Gen. 4:15

The Lord replied, "They won't kill you, for I will give seven times your punishment to anyone who does" Then the Lord put an identifying mark on Cain as a warning not to kill him.





The mark was meant "Not to kill."

And also would you risk 7 times the punishment on yourself?


Strange.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 02:51 AM
They're just Islam's version(s) of Tim McVeigh.

You just contradicted yourself anyway. Your post above, you say that most Muslims aren't violent, and then you turn around and say that the Extremists are the mainstream, which is hardly the case.



No I did not, you didn't read it right.

The terrorist are the TRUE followers.

The rest of the Muslims are like fakes, like Christians who don't believe that Jesus raised the dead, or that the Red sea did not part, or that the story of Noah's Ark was a myth.


And who was Tim following? Non-violent Jesus?

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 03:01 AM
You guys know that the Muslims recognize Jesus and Moses as prophets right?


You are right but it is a very strange relationship.

Mohammad says that JESUS is the word of God and he calls the Jews the CHOSEN people of God.



Why then does he ask God to curse the followers of Jesus and the Jews?

Why all the violence toward them?

CedarPhin
09-28-2010, 03:29 AM
No I did not, you didn't read it right.

The terrorist are the TRUE followers.

The rest of the Muslims are like fakes, like Christians who don't believe that Jesus raised the dead, or that the Red sea did not part, or that the story of Noah's Ark was a myth.


And who was Tim following? Non-violent Jesus?

You're pretty off base man.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 03:41 AM
You're pretty off base man.


WHY?

As a Christian I believe every word said as spoken by Jesus.




Would not a true follower of Mohammad do the same? Believe every word as spoken by Mohammad?


Hadith 9:4 "Wherever you find infidels kill them; for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."

Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).
48:29: "Those who follow Muhammad are merciless for the unbelievers but kind to each other."

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 03:43 AM
SHARIA LAW in ACTION...Watch the video, all the way to the end about Dearborn Mich.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=208929

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 03:51 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL9zypnTF1s

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL9zypnTF1s)
video: 3Things about Islam

Dolphins9954
09-28-2010, 07:49 AM
Quit with the nonsense of choosing which testament you want to make your point. Where does all the creationism nonsense, come from? The old testament, yet Christians have no problem quoting that from the old testament when it suits them.

That has always been my problem with christians. When the old testament fits their arguement they embrace it. When it doesn't they run from it. Very selective to what they want to believe. Only when it suits them.

Dolphins9954
09-28-2010, 07:51 AM
Mohammad teaches to kill your neighbor.

Jesus teaches to love your neighbor.



Mohammad teaches to kill your enemy.

Jesus teaches to love your enemy.



And you are showing us the shining example of love i tell you. Very Christ-like....lol.

Vaark
09-28-2010, 08:38 AM
This thread just reinforces my conviction that all organized religions are BS, divisive and intended to make their devout followers into unquestioning, naive clones... and the more fundaMENTAL someone's beliefs, the more intractable they become against conflicting ones. Most rabid fundamentalists, no matter their religion are dangerous threats to civilization - IMO, there just happen to be many more moslem ones which is understandable once you realize that their BS is drummed into them 5X daily while on their knees.

IMO, the crutch of organized religion has done more harm than good through the history of modern civilization .

Believe in the empiricism of spirituality... not some contrived man-made religion:

www.deism.com (http://www.deism.com)

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 03:14 PM
And you are showing us the shining example of love i tell you. Very Christ-like....lol.


They call that tough love, like how a parent admonishing their children.
Like, this hurts me more than you, but you better learn from this or you will get hurt much more, and not from me.



Yes Jesus was about loving and Mohammad was about killing.

Matter of fact Mohammad ask his God to curse the Jews and the followers of Jesus, and yet he proclaimed that the Jews were God's chosen people, and that Jesus was the WORD of GOD.

How strange this whole thing is.

Could it be that Mohammad was a false prophet?

His early writings talk of love, then when he is rejected by the Christians, his writings became violent. Makes me wonder.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 03:24 PM
This thread just reinforces my conviction that all organized religions are BS, divisive and intended to make their devout followers into unquestioning, naive clones... and the more fundaMENTAL someone's beliefs, the more intractable they become against conflicting ones. Most rabid fundamentalists, no matter their religion are dangerous threats to civilization - IMO, there just happen to be many more moslem ones which is understandable once you realize that their BS is drummed into them 5X daily while on their knees.

IMO, the crutch of organized religion has done more harm than good through the history of modern civilization .

Believe in the empiricism of spirituality... not some contrived man-made religion:

www.deism.com (http://www.deism.com)


Have you read the teachings of JESUS? Not a single verse of violence in them anywhere.

As I tell my friends, your Christian parents may fail you, your Christian friends may fail you, your Christian Pastor may fail you.

It is because NOBODY is perfect.

But Jesus and his teachings won't. It is all about love.

It is WE who fail.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 03:33 PM
That has always been my problem with christians. When the old testament fits their arguement they embrace it. When it doesn't they run from it. Very selective to what they want to believe. Only when it suits them.




This is Christianity






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity)
Christianity (from the Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Language) word Xριστός, Khristos, "Christ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ)", literally "anointed one") is a monotheistic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism#Christian_view) religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#cite_note-Monotheism-0) based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus) as presented in the New Testament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_view_on_Jesus%27_life).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#cite_note-1)




AS presented in the NEW TESTAMENT.




The Old Testament is actually from the Jewish Torah(Judaism). Some parts are also included in the Islam Koran beliefs.


http://judaism.about.com/cs/judaismbasics/f/torah.htm

(http://judaism.about.com/cs/judaismbasics/f/torah.htm)
The Torah is the primary document of Judaism.


Written Torah

The Written Torah is often called the Tanakh, which stands for Torah (T), Nevi'im (N) and Ketuvim (K). The Written Torah contains:
1. Five Books of Moses (Chumashe Torah)
2. Prophets (Nevi'im)
3. Writings (Ketuvim)




The Christians refer to the Old Testament is because Jesus came out of JUDAISM. The prophecies of his coming and arrival are all in the Old Testament.








CHRISTIANITY started with the teachings of Jesus, and there is no command to do any act of violence toward anyone from JESUS.

Vaark
09-28-2010, 05:47 PM
Have you read the teachings of JESUS? Not a single verse of violence in them anywhere.

As I tell my friends, your Christian parents may fail you, your Christian friends may fail you, your Christian Pastor may fail you.

It is because NOBODY is perfect.

But Jesus and his teachings won't. It is all about love.

It is WE who fail.

I'm not gonna crap on you and what appear to be your sincere fervent beliefs..and if they serve you well, then certainly more power to ya. BUT, my own beliefs are that the bible is at best a contrivance of convenient half-truths, fairy tales, and hypocrisies foisted by those seeking to control others and I'd be just as well served reading 1001 Arabian Nights and harkening to the teachings of The Easter Bunny. But to each his own beliefs, especially if they prove personally enlightening and uplifting so long as they don't intrude on, and interfere with my own beliefs, freedoms and lifestyle. I have particular issues with Biblical/Koran literalists including the Religious Right's lobby to modify laws to conform with their beliefs and the fundaMENTAL Islamics forcefeeding their religion and conventions on me -or as a proud American or religious non-believer, threatening the safety of me, my loved ones and country.

Frankly speaking: **** any holy roller or mouth-frothing Islamic jackal who seeks to interfere with the way I think or choose to legally live my life. I maintain that the world would be a better, safer and more fulfilling place without organized religion and all the detritus surrounding it!

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 06:16 PM
I'm not gonna crap on you and what appear to be your sincere fervent beliefs..and if they serve you well, then certainly more power to ya. BUT, my own beliefs are that the bible is at best a contrivance of convenient half-truths, fairy tales, and hypocrisies foisted by those seeking to control others and I'd be just as well served reading 1001 Arabian Nights and harkening to the teachings of The Easter Bunny. But to each his own beliefs, especially if they prove personally enlightening and uplifting so long as they don't intrude on, and interfere with my own beliefs, freedoms and lifestyle. I have particular issues with Biblical/Koran literalists including the Religious Right's lobby to modify laws to conform with their beliefs and the fundaMENTAL Islamics forcefeeding their religion and conventions on me -or as a proud American or religious non-believer, threatening the safety of me, my loved ones and country.

Frankly speaking: **** any holy roller or mouth-frothing Islamic jackal who seeks to interfere with the way I think or choose to legally live my life. I maintain that the world would be a better, safer and more fulfilling place without organized religion and all the detritus surrounding it!




0(not you) just needed 1 character to reply.

CedarPhin
09-28-2010, 07:18 PM
Have you ever actually read the Qur'an? Or do you just froth at the mouth and let out with long rants when the word "Muslim" or "Islam" is brought up? Have you ever been to an Islamic country? Have you ever been to a mosque?

I'm guessing "No" is the answer to the first, third, and fourth questions, and a resounding "Yes" to the second one.

irish fin fan
09-28-2010, 07:33 PM
Jesus Christ supersedes the Old Testament.

Example

Old Testament - they stoned adulterers

New Testament - Jesus said "who ever is without sin can cast the 1st stone." (everybody has sin, so no one cast a stone.)
Normally I would agree with you. If you are a Christian then it is the new testament you should be quoting from. However, when it comes to any excuse to use violence they quickly quote from the old testament. Sorry you can't pick and choose which testament you want to quote from depending on when it suits your argument.

Dolphan7
09-28-2010, 08:25 PM
As to Sharia law, our court systems are never going to be taken over by radical Muslims who will force it down our throats. It's all fearmongering, and a microcosm of what's going on in our system today.
While I tend to agree with you on this I am not convinced 100% that this could never happen. We teach evolution in all our public (and many private) schools as fact, a thought that 100 years ago would be seen as impossible, yet here it is today. Also....there is a mindset in this country that the US Constitution is a fluid document, ever evolving... This is very dangerous. Man made government is highly fallible. While we may have the best form of self governance the world has ever seen, it doesn't mean it will last forever...not in an unchanged state.

irish fin fan
09-28-2010, 08:37 PM
While I tend to agree with you on this I am not convinced 100% that this could never happen. We teach evolution in all our public (and many private) schools as fact, a thought that 100 years ago would be seen as impossible, yet here it is today. Also....there is a mindset in this country that the US Constitution is a fluid document, ever evolving... This is very dangerous. Man made government is highly fallible. While we may have the best form of self governance the world has ever seen, it doesn't mean it will last forever...not in an unchanged state.
Let me get this right, you don't believe in evolution?

Dolphins9954
09-28-2010, 08:55 PM
They call that tough love, like how a parent admonishing their children.
Like, this hurts me more than you, but you better learn from this or you will get hurt much more, and not from me.

Yes Jesus was about loving and Mohammad was about killing.

Matter of fact Mohammad ask his God to curse the Jews and the followers of Jesus, and yet he proclaimed that the Jews were God's chosen people, and that Jesus was the WORD of GOD.

How strange this whole thing is.

Could it be that Mohammad was a false prophet?

His early writings talk of love, then when he is rejected by the Christians, his writings became violent. Makes me wonder.


So your version of "tough love" is doing something unconstitutional like banning Islam. Then forcing all muslims into re-education camps to learn the error of their ways or else. Sounds anti-free speech and religion to me. Not to mention authoritarian and despotic. We already saw what fascism did to the world. We don't need another repeat. Even if it's done with your so-called love.

Dolphins9954
09-28-2010, 08:58 PM
While I tend to agree with you on this I am not convinced 100% that this could never happen. We teach evolution in all our public (and many private) schools as fact, a thought that 100 years ago would be seen as impossible, yet here it is today. Also....there is a mindset in this country that the US Constitution is a fluid document, ever evolving... This is very dangerous. Man made government is highly fallible. While we may have the best form of self governance the world has ever seen, it doesn't mean it will last forever...not in an unchanged state.


Well maybe the mountain of evidence that was gathered in the last 100 years might have something to do with it.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 10:24 PM
So your version of "tough love" is doing something unconstitutional like banning Islam. Then forcing all muslims into re-education camps to learn the error of their ways or else. Sounds anti-free speech and religion to me. Not to mention authoritarian and despotic. We already saw what fascism did to the world. We don't need another repeat. Even if it's done with your so-called love.


We want to BAN honor killings. IS THAT OK?

We want to BAN the killings of infidels. IS THAT OK?

We want to give Muslims the right to leave their religion without a death warrant. IS THAT OK?

We want the right to speak out against Islam without a death threat. IS THAT OK?

I could go on and on.




Forced reeducation camps. WHAT is wrong with you?

We just want the Muslims to UNDERSTAND about the violence in their religion. What is so hard to understand about that? DO YOU WANT TERRORIST running free in our land? That's what they are TEACHING in many of their so called peace loving MOSQUE.


We don't need another repeat?


SORRY DUDE but ITS HAPPENING.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 10:31 PM
Have you ever actually read the Qur'an? Or do you just froth at the mouth and let out with long rants when the word "Muslim" or "Islam" is brought up? Have you ever been to an Islamic country? Have you ever been to a mosque?

I'm guessing "No" is the answer to the first, third, and fourth questions, and a resounding "Yes" to the second one.



After ALL the quotes about killing infidels etc., you back up MOHAMMAD, what part did you not understand?


Hey maybe this will wake you up. It is common practice over there.

http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/12-year-old-taliban-boys-first-beheading-warning-extremely-graphic-images/

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 10:57 PM
I am not spewing hate, but rather awareness and truth.


http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/hassaballa_violence3.htm

(http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/hassaballa_violence3.htm)
Ibn Kathir,

one of the greatest Muslim scholars ever, states that Christians and Jews that don’t embrace Islam are forced to submit in defeat, subservience, and feel themselves subdued, disgraced, humiliated and belittled. Muslims are not allowed to honor Christians and Jews, for they are miserable, disgraced, and humiliated.

irish fin fan
09-28-2010, 10:58 PM
We want to BAN honor killings. IS THAT OK?

We want to BAN the killings of infidels. IS THAT OK?
That would be called murder and I think we have laws on the books for that. No?
We want to give Muslims the right to leave their religion without a death warrant. IS THAT OK?
I believe we have something called freedom of religion on the books here too. No?
We want the right to speak out against Islam without a death threat. IS THAT OK?
Its called freedom of speech and I'm pretty sure we have that in the law books too. No?
I could go on and on.
Please do.



Forced reeducation camps. WHAT is wrong with you?

We just want the Muslims to UNDERSTAND about the violence in their religion. What is so hard to understand about that? DO YOU WANT TERRORIST running free in our land? That's what they are TEACHING in many of their so called peace loving MOSQUE.
Where are the terrorists running free? Yes, I'm sure they are terrorists in the country but I'm pretty damn sure they are watching their backs every minute.

We don't need another repeat?
Stating the obvious.

SORRY DUDE but ITS HAPPENING.
edit

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 11:03 PM
Awareness and Truth, that's all. I want to be loving and PC but all I get is sand in my face, so I am just going to bring on the facts.





What does the Quran call today’s Christians and Jews? What does it ask God to do to them? Let’s see: Below are 3 translations of 9:30

009.030

YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

PICKTHALL: And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

SHAKIR: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!



We hear Muhammad asking Allah to curse, fight, and destroy the Christians and Jews.


Does that sound like respect and honor to you? It sounds like Muhammad hated the Christians and Jews because they rejected him as a false prophet.

irish fin fan
09-28-2010, 11:18 PM
Awareness and Truth, that's all. I want to be loving and PC but all I get is sand in my face, so I am just going to bring on the facts.





What does the Quran call today’s Christians and Jews? What does it ask God to do to them? Let’s see: Below are 3 translations of 9:30

009.030

YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

PICKTHALL: And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

SHAKIR: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!



We hear Muhammad asking Allah to curse, fight, and destroy the Christians and Jews.


Does that sound like respect and honor to you? It sounds like Muhammad hated the Christians and Jews because they rejected him as a false prophet.
It would be interesting to see what the bible would have said about Muslims if the Muslim faith had been around at the time the bible was written. I think we would have been plenty of the same language that you are quoting above.

It doesn't seem to be getting through to you that there is plenty of violent garbage in the old testament (and don't give me the new testament argument as we have been through that already with selective quotes), plenty of violence in the Christian history (Inquisition) and our little declaration of wars in the past called Crusades. Yet I would hope that most people of other religions would not think we all blood thirsty savages based on what we have done in the past or literally expect that everything written in the bible is what Christians do.

Do you not think that the vast majority of Muslims follow the peaceful teachings of the Koran and ignore the violent parts, as much as Christians do?

CedarPhin
09-28-2010, 11:26 PM
After ALL the quotes about killing infidels etc., you back up MOHAMMAD, what part did you not understand?


Hey maybe this will wake you up. It is common practice over there.

http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/12-year-old-taliban-boys-first-beheading-warning-extremely-graphic-images/

Yeah, by a set of extremists. I wandered around Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan without any problems, I took a train to Iran and didn't have any problems. It's not a hotbed of "Let's kill all the Yankee Dogz!!!!111!" over there, having been around the region extensively.

There are a set of extremists over there, but there are here too. One just needs to look at the guy who was going to burn Korans. Timothy McVeigh is another example. Were they right? No. Were the people who flew planes into the towers right? Absolutely not. Should we have banned Christianity after the OKC bombings? No.

There's a freedom of religion in this country, in the 1st Amendment.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 11:30 PM
It would be interesting to see what the bible would have said about Muslims if the Muslim faith had been around at the time the bible was written. I think we would have been plenty of the same language that you are quoting above.

It doesn't seem to be getting through to you that there is plenty of violent garbage in the old testament (and don't give me the new testament argument as we have been through that already with selective quotes), plenty of violence in the Christian history (Inquisition) and our little declaration of wars in the past called Crusades. Yet I would hope that most people of other religions would not think we all blood thirsty savages based on what we have done in the past or literally expect that everything written in the bible is what Christians do.

Do you not think that the vast majority of Muslims follow the peaceful teachings of the Koran and ignore the violent parts, as much as Christians do?




The INFIDELS WAS PRESENT during the time of Jesus. What does he say about them?

He said "LOVE your enemies."

Go and find a scripture in the NEW TESTAMENT because that is where Jesus SPEAKS. Find a violent passage for me. They were all INFIDELS back during that time.



Of course the majority of Muslims are peaceful.

BUT I want to talk about the TEACHINGS of MOHAMMAD. His IDEOLOGY.
THAT is what is important. WHAT is IT?
It is about KILLING. When you finally get IT, then you will understand the mind of the terrorist. IT IS HIS LIFESTYLE.



"ignore the violent parts"

I want to make sure you understand this. OK, Christianity began with JESUS in the NEW TESTAMENT, now go and find an IGNORED violent part that I am not aware of.
I am sorry if I am coming across strong, it is because the THEME of IDEOLOGIES is just not coming across.

Again sorry.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-28-2010, 11:34 PM
No Sharia Law in America?



Honor Killings in America


http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/honor-killings-in-america/tragedy/

(http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/honor-killings-in-america/tragedy/)
Honor killings don’t only happen in the Middle East: The brutal Arizona killing last year of Noor Almaleki by her own father has catalyzed Human Rights Watch and Marie Claire magazine to join together in a campaign to renew the Family Violence Prevention and Services Act, which expired in 2008. Noor’s father, Faleh Almaleki, disapproved of her American lifestyle (wearing jeans, posting on MySpace) and dreams (marrying for love). He beat her and ultimately ran her over in his SUV, not once but twice, to prevent her from dishonoring the family


http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5665304/honor_killing_in_america_a_big_problem.html

(http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5665304/honor_killing_in_america_a_big_problem.html)
He didn't approve of her wearing jeans, dating non-Muslim boys, and being an all-American girl.






Fox News Reporting: Honor Killing in America


http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,598689,00.html

(http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,598689,00.html)
For two years, Fox News has been investigating the short lives and violent deaths of Texas teenagers Amina and Sarah Said.
The sisters were riddled with bullets in their dad's borrowed taxi cab on New Year's Day 2008. As 911 operators listened in, Sarah appeared to name her father as the killer — her dying words: "Help! Help! My dad shot me... and now I'm dying!"

CedarPhin
09-28-2010, 11:41 PM
While I tend to agree with you on this I am not convinced 100% that this could never happen. We teach evolution in all our public (and many private) schools as fact, a thought that 100 years ago would be seen as impossible, yet here it is today. Also....there is a mindset in this country that the US Constitution is a fluid document, ever evolving... This is very dangerous. Man made government is highly fallible. While we may have the best form of self governance the world has ever seen, it doesn't mean it will last forever...not in an unchanged state.

I respect your views, but Evolution in schools and Sharia law in the court system are apples and oranges to me.

CedarPhin
09-28-2010, 11:42 PM
No Sharia Law in America?



Honor Killings in America


http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/honor-killings-in-america/tragedy/

(http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/honor-killings-in-america/tragedy/)
Honor killings don’t only happen in the Middle East: The brutal Arizona killing last year of Noor Almaleki by her own father has catalyzed Human Rights Watch and Marie Claire magazine to join together in a campaign to renew the Family Violence Prevention and Services Act, which expired in 2008. Noor’s father, Faleh Almaleki, disapproved of her American lifestyle (wearing jeans, posting on MySpace) and dreams (marrying for love). He beat her and ultimately ran her over in his SUV, not once but twice, to prevent her from dishonoring the family


http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5665304/honor_killing_in_america_a_big_problem.html

(http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5665304/honor_killing_in_america_a_big_problem.html)
He didn't approve of her wearing jeans, dating non-Muslim boys, and being an all-American girl.






Fox News Reporting: Honor Killing in America


http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,598689,00.html

(http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,598689,00.html)
For two years, Fox News has been investigating the short lives and violent deaths of Texas teenagers Amina and Sarah Said.
The sisters were riddled with bullets in their dad's borrowed taxi cab on New Year's Day 2008. As 911 operators listened in, Sarah appeared to name her father as the killer — her dying words: "Help! Help! My dad shot me... and now I'm dying!"


This isn't all Muslims though. They're a fringe of extremists. Every religion has them, and it's why I'm not a member of any.

irish fin fan
09-28-2010, 11:42 PM
The INFIDELS WAS PRESENT during the time of Jesus. What does he say about them?

He said "LOVE your enemies."

Go and find a scripture in the NEW TESTAMENT because that is where Jesus SPEAKS. Find a violent passage for me. They were all INFIDELS back during that time.



Of course the majority of Muslims are peaceful.

BUT I want to talk about the TEACHINGS of MOHAMMAD. His IDEOLOGY.
THAT is what is important. WHAT is IT?
It is about KILLING. When you finally get IT, then you will understand the mind of the terrorist. IT IS HIS LIFESTYLE.



"ignore the violent parts"

I want to make sure you understand this. OK, Christianity began with JESUS in the NEW TESTAMENT, now go and find an IGNORED violent part that I am not aware of.
I am sorry if I am coming across strong, it is because the THEME of IDEOLOGIES is just not coming across.

Again sorry.
I understand when Christianity began but I also understand that most of the time when Christians are trying to justify something they quote the old testament. Now, I don't know you personally. Maybe you live by the new testament and good for you if you do as they are good principles to live by. However, I'm so tired of other "religious" posters on the political forum who have no problem quoting from the old testament to justify a position which to me is something that belongs to the Jewish religion. I look at the contents of both the old and new testaments (which most Christians refer too) and my position, as another poster showed, is also full of violence.

I apologize if I'm coming over a little too strong on this but these religious arguments bring out the worst in me as I'm tired of everyone thinking they are superior to everyone else (and that is not targeted at you). I live my life by treating others as I would like them to treat me and I don't need some book to tell me that is the right way to live.

Dolphins9954
09-29-2010, 12:13 AM
We want to BAN honor killings. IS THAT OK?

We want to BAN the killings of infidels. IS THAT OK?

We want to give Muslims the right to leave their religion without a death warrant. IS THAT OK?

We want the right to speak out against Islam without a death threat. IS THAT OK?

I could go on and on.




Forced reeducation camps. WHAT is wrong with you?

We just want the Muslims to UNDERSTAND about the violence in their religion. What is so hard to understand about that? DO YOU WANT TERRORIST running free in our land? That's what they are TEACHING in many of their so called peace loving MOSQUE.


We don't need another repeat?


SORRY DUDE but ITS HAPPENING.


Call me crazy. But since when is honor killings and killing infidels in America legal?

Dolphins9954
09-29-2010, 12:19 AM
No Sharia Law in America?



Honor Killings in America


http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/honor-killings-in-america/tragedy/

(http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/honor-killings-in-america/tragedy/)
Honor killings don’t only happen in the Middle East: The brutal Arizona killing last year of Noor Almaleki by her own father has catalyzed Human Rights Watch and Marie Claire magazine to join together in a campaign to renew the Family Violence Prevention and Services Act, which expired in 2008. Noor’s father, Faleh Almaleki, disapproved of her American lifestyle (wearing jeans, posting on MySpace) and dreams (marrying for love). He beat her and ultimately ran her over in his SUV, not once but twice, to prevent her from dishonoring the family


http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5665304/honor_killing_in_america_a_big_problem.html

(http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5665304/honor_killing_in_america_a_big_problem.html)
He didn't approve of her wearing jeans, dating non-Muslim boys, and being an all-American girl.






Fox News Reporting: Honor Killing in America


http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,598689,00.html

(http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,598689,00.html)
For two years, Fox News has been investigating the short lives and violent deaths of Texas teenagers Amina and Sarah Said.
The sisters were riddled with bullets in their dad's borrowed taxi cab on New Year's Day 2008. As 911 operators listened in, Sarah appeared to name her father as the killer — her dying words: "Help! Help! My dad shot me... and now I'm dying!"


Is not legal. You are using illegal acts of murder and twisting it into thinking that all of a sudden America supports this. It doesn't and never will because it's a violation of the constitution, rule of law and civil rights. No where will you find any court, city or state that supports this. Stop with the paranoia. Relax and take a chill pill.

On a side note since you're all about god, peace and love. Do you support the current wars?

1Hawdolfin4L
09-29-2010, 12:35 AM
Sharia Law again, of course it unconstitutional, but it's happening.


http://wizbangblog.com/content/2006/04/03/borders-support-some-banned-bo.php

(http://wizbangblog.com/content/2006/04/03/borders-support-some-banned-bo.php)
Borders: Support (Some) Banned Books

This is amazingly ironic considering Borders, along with Waldenbooks, has banned the sale (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2006/03/29/national/a163611S00.DTL) of the April/May issue of Free Inquiry because it published some of the Muhammad cartoons.





http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1842832_1842838_1845261,00.html

(http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1842832_1842838_1845261,00.html)
BANNED BOOKS

Two major U.S. booksellers — Walden Books and Barnes & Noble — removed the book from their shelves after receiving death threats. And while Rushdie's publisher, Viking Penguin, denounced such "censorship by terrorism and intimidation," threats of violence forced the company to temporarily close its New York City office to improve security.

CedarPhin
09-29-2010, 12:37 AM
How's that any different than the dude burning Korans? Or did you agree with that?

1Hawdolfin4L
09-29-2010, 12:38 AM
2 video's on this link, where is your freedom of speech?




SHARIA LAW in ACTION...Watch the video, all the way to the end about Dearborn Mich.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=208929

Dolphan7
09-29-2010, 12:55 AM
I respect your views, but Evolution in schools and Sharia law in the court system are apples and oranges to me.Different yes, but it isn't that they are different, but that the process is exactly the same. As 1Hawdolfin4L has been trying to point out.....honor killings in America do indeed happen...and when you get small increments of acceptance...or lack of police followup and prosecution.....it eventually sets precedents..and little by little it becomes more widespread and allowable. Not saying it will happen, but it is most certainly possible. I simply used evolution as an example of how things can change over time little by little.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-29-2010, 12:59 AM
How's that any different than the dude burning Korans? Or did you agree with that?


The stores that pulled the books. WHY did they do it? FEAR, a form of forced censorship.
Islam scared the fecal matter out of them. Laws? What constitution. You insult Mohammad - I KILL you, that's the law, SHARIA law.

Where is Sal Rushdie? Hiding. WHY? BTW countless others are also hiding. In America. I thought no sharia law in America?



Jones, why did he do it? Was it FEAR? No. He was trying to prove something.

His FREEDOM of expression was censored.

Everybody jumped and condemned him. Riots broke out all over the world.
Where was Obama, Congress, Gen. Pat?

Oh please don't do it, the Muslims they going get mad at us.(just as those book stores)
I'm sorry son, we are going to take away your rights, send in the FBI.

WHAT LAW did he break? None.

WHY was nobody defending his rights? As disrespectful as it was, was it illegal? After all, others have burned and pissed on the Bible, that was legal, and one EVEN won an award for art.



PISSED on the Bible.



On a side note, do you really want to know what they do to the Bible on the other side of the world?



BTW
Our own government burn Bibles. Where was Obama then? Where was Gen. Pat? Where was the media?

1Hawdolfin4L
09-29-2010, 04:03 AM
I have to tell you Cedar...

I just came from "Depths of the Sea."

Think I'm going to grab me a beer, and sit in a corner. It's like I'm watching some 3DN song video but in mute mode. Mama Told me. I'd smoke a joint, but it ain't for me. Even the beer taste lousy.

Good Night.

Vaark
09-29-2010, 07:30 AM
Different yes, but it isn't that they are different, but that the process is exactly the same. As 1Hawdolfin4L has been trying to point out.....honor killings in America do indeed happen...and when you get small increments of acceptance...or lack of police followup and prosecution.....it eventually sets precedents..and little by little it becomes more widespread and allowable. Not saying it will happen, but it is most certainly possible. I simply used evolution as an example of how things can change over time little by little.

You mean something like the cult of radical religionists who condone, shelter and encourage the bombing of pro choice clinics and the cold-blooded assassination of their docs? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that hate group seems to have lost none of their traction over the years.

Locke
09-29-2010, 11:17 AM
Yeah, by a set of extremists. I wandered around Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan without any problems, I took a train to Iran and didn't have any problems. It's not a hotbed of "Let's kill all the Yankee Dogz!!!!111!" over there, having been around the region extensively.

There are a set of extremists over there, but there are here too. One just needs to look at the guy who was going to burn Korans. Timothy McVeigh is another example. Were they right? No. Were the people who flew planes into the towers right? Absolutely not. Should we have banned Christianity after the OKC bombings? No.

There's a freedom of religion in this country, in the 1st Amendment.

What part of Iran did you got to Cedar? When I was a kid, my dad took me to visit family over there, so I saw Tehran and Shiraz extensively...

1Hawdolfin4L
09-29-2010, 02:16 PM
Tim McVeigh. That was so far back I cannot even remember. The sad part is, they have evidence that he was probably in with an Islamic terrorist. The evidence was given to the FBI and they never used it.

But I am beyond that, let's go on to pro life killings. What is the date of the most recent killings? I see you don't know.



You guys think these extremist are FOLLOWING the teachings of JESUS. ARE THEY?


Can't you see the difference between the teachings of Jesus vs Mohammad.



I’m still waiting for somebody, anybody to give me a command by Jesus to do any sort of violence. Can’t he has zero (0).

If I am right,

Mohammad has over 200 violent commands. And that is a conservative number.



Now what is the difference here?
A person who DOESN'T follow the commands of Jesus vs
A person who DOES follow the commands of Mohammad.


Do you see the difference?

Why is REALITY so hard?


This here is also something that many can’t seem to accept. The Jihad will NEVER end. NEVER, because it is a COMMAND to do VIOLENCE.


But with Jesus, it can end, because there is NO COMMAND to do VIOLENCE.




I hope many of you see the difference.

Dolphan7
09-29-2010, 06:48 PM
You mean something like the cult of radical religionists who condone, shelter and encourage the bombing of pro choice clinics and the cold-blooded assassination of their docs? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that hate group seems to have lost none of their traction over the years.
mmmm.... I see what you are trying to imply here Vaark, but I think there is a difference. Surely it is possible for a group of like minded officials in a small town to condone such violence and murder and not prosecute it...which is defacto supporting it. The same thing could happen in a small Muslim community regarding honor killings...wherein the officials of that community could condone the honor killings and decide not to prosecute the suspects. The difference as I see it is that the muslims have a well established Law that they are following and adhering to...where as the other scenario is just a bunch of misguided fanatics. Neither one would be acceptable and I would expect the United States Attorney General to prosecute and defend our existing laws.

X-Pacolypse
09-29-2010, 07:51 PM
So what should we do about it?

Ban Islam? Which is unconstitutional.
Round up and kill all muslims?
Nuke every muslim country in the world?
Pull a Hitler on all muslims?

You ban all religions. Think about it, what a wonderful world it would be!

Dolphins9954
09-30-2010, 01:20 AM
You ban all religions. Think about it, what a wonderful world it would be!

In a perfect world maybe. But I think it goes deeper than that. Even if we banned all religion. I think humans will still find another reason to kill each other over. I really think it's in our nature to kill and destroy one another. Religion is just used as a tool to justify it.

X-Pacolypse
09-30-2010, 01:30 PM
In a perfect world maybe. But I think it goes deeper than that. Even if we banned all religion. I think humans will still find another reason to kill each other over. I really think it's in our nature to kill and destroy one another. Religion is just used as a tool to justify it.

That's probably true. That being said, if we lived in a world free of religion the next time some person or group decides to blowup a building or two they won't be referred to as "religious extremists" we can just call them for what they are. Just plain f*cking crazy.

Dolphins9954
09-30-2010, 08:21 PM
That's probably true. That being said, if we lived in a world free of religion the next time some person or group decides to blowup a building or two they won't be referred to as "religious extremists" we can just call them for what they are. Just plain f*cking crazy.

That is true.

1Hawdolfin4L
09-30-2010, 08:41 PM
If as some of you say, that religion is used to control people,

then what happens when you take away that control.

And if you really start to believe that we were evolved and not created but mere animals,

wouldn't that be survival of the fittest,

and if I am not to be punished by an all powerful God,

why should I listen to some loud mouth leader,

I shall steal when I want and kill when I want,

and what's it to you, you make the rules, FU bro

I live how I want to live, and I will do what I want to do, don't tell me what to do.

Laws, what laws? Your law, what about my law.




Life without RELIGION.

Vaark
09-30-2010, 11:41 PM
If as some of you say, that religion is used to control people,

then what happens when you take away that control.

And if you really start to believe that we were evolved and not created but mere animals,

wouldn't that be survival of the fittest,

and if I am not to be punished by an all powerful God,

why should I listen to some loud mouth leader,

I shall steal when I want and kill when I want,

and what's it to you, you make the rules, FU bro

I live how I want to live, and I will do what I want to do, don't tell me what to do.

Laws, what laws? Your law, what about my law.




Life without RELIGION.

Google "The Social Contract Theory" in conjunction with Rousseau (a ground-breaking Deistic philosopher), Locke and Hobbes to learn that within the "natural human condition", man's default tendency is to form covenants and subordinate himself to a mass authority, such as a government, to secure organization, order and safety -without requiring the heavy-handed constraints, threats and punishments of a man-made religion. This basic inclination is inculcated into us as part of a supernatural being's grand design.

The specific need to closely follow some religious tenet or another as the buffer between civilized and savage was cleverly perpetrated to foster dependency and control. Bottom line- in our natural state, in general the majority of us are hard-wired to do the right thing, innately understanding it's within our self interest to do so without the need of some artificial moral code.

1Hawdolfin4L
10-01-2010, 12:57 AM
A Study of Interest, but may be flawed…


I came across this video which rates the peacefulness of a nation. The claim is that the more atheist a nation, the more peaceful they are. Ah-Ha!


Well, I did not see who was #1, but Denmark was #2.


Now, why is it that another study, with the link below, claims that 85% belong to the Lutheran Church.
If you add the Catholic Church, and the Muslims, it becomes 90%.


So which is it, are they religious or atheist? Is the study flawed?
Never-the-less both studies provide food for thought.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdtwTeBPYQA

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdtwTeBPYQA)
Atheist Nations Are More Peaceful



http://www.denmark.net/denmark-guide/religion-denmark.html

(http://www.denmark.net/denmark-guide/religion-denmark.html)
Religion in Denmark


The official religion in the country of Denmark is Evangelical Lutheran, as stated in Paragraph 4 of the Danish Constitution. There are also other religions recognized by the constitution. About 85 percent of the Danish population belongs to the Evangelical Lutheran religion,








I am of this camp, believing that without religion, or God, that the world will be wrought with chaos, tyranny and dictatorship.


http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/culture/philosophy/4875-Moral-Values-Without-Religion.html

Moral Values Without Religion

Does morality depend upon religion? Most people believe it does, which is a major reason behind the appeal of the religious right. People believe that without faith in a supernatural authority, we can have no moral values--no moral absolutes, no black-and-white distinctions, no firm demarcation between good and evil--in life or in politics. This is the assumption underlying Justice Antonin Scalia's assertion that "government derives its authority from God," since only religious faith can supposedly provide moral constraints on human action.

Dolphins9954
10-01-2010, 08:51 AM
If as some of you say, that religion is used to control people,

then what happens when you take away that control.

And if you really start to believe that we were evolved and not created but mere animals,

wouldn't that be survival of the fittest,

and if I am not to be punished by an all powerful God,

why should I listen to some loud mouth leader,

I shall steal when I want and kill when I want,

and what's it to you, you make the rules, FU bro

I live how I want to live, and I will do what I want to do, don't tell me what to do.

Laws, what laws? Your law, what about my law.




Life without RELIGION.


Even with the laws of god. Killing, Rape, Murder, Theft and Genocide still happen. And much of which in the lord's name. There's a whole history of man to back that up. I would have to use a quote that I believe Cmax used.

"Morality is doing what's right no matter what you are told. Religion is doing what your told no matter what is right."

It's a myth that only religion gives you morality. In my life exp. the majority of christians I have come across from friends and family. Were some of the biggest hypocrites I've ever seen. Would preach to me the word of god and sin. But were the biggest sinners and lacked many morals. And would be the first to preach about morals and judge people. I can tell you from my life exp. that I have more morality than the majority of christians I've come across.

Do you support the wars?

Locke
10-01-2010, 11:15 AM
If as some of you say, that religion is used to control people,

then what happens when you take away that control.

And if you really start to believe that we were evolved and not created but mere animals,

wouldn't that be survival of the fittest,

and if I am not to be punished by an all powerful God,

why should I listen to some loud mouth leader,

I shall steal when I want and kill when I want,

and what's it to you, you make the rules, FU bro

I live how I want to live, and I will do what I want to do, don't tell me what to do.

Laws, what laws? Your law, what about my law.




Life without RELIGION.

Worst argument ever. Seriously. It's that bad.

Religion doesn't give us laws. People give us laws. If what you were saying was true, the rapidly growing population of atheists and agnostics would be running around the country raping women, stealing everyone else's sh*t, and punching babies in the face. They aren't though. That's because religion has absolutely nothing to do with that. It's all social. If you ever took a sociology class, this would all make perfect sense without an ounce of religion sprinkled in.

I would argue that religion perpetuates more crime and violence than lack of religion. Best example is that retard in Florida who wanted to burn Korans, endangering American troops overseas. Or, how about the fact that the vast majority of Hispanic gang members wear crosses and have catholic tattoos? How is religion stopping them from breaking laws? How is religion stopping priests from molesting young boys? How is religion stopping Christian extremists from bombing abortion clinics and killing doctors? I could keep going, but I think the point is clear.

By the way Vaark, great post.

9954, I couldn't agree more. Some of the biggest douchebags and ***holes I've met were religious. Constant condescension and preaching at me, but completely hypocritical in their actions. The worst are all these ministers who cry out against homosexuals, yet are banging dudes behind closed doors. I would put my morals up against anyone else's and feel comfortable about the outcome...

1Hawdolfin4L
10-01-2010, 06:40 PM
All good points of view, and so many questions to answer.

Thus I will sum it all up in this one scripture.



"All people fall short of the glory of God."



In other words, "nobody is perfect," both religious and non-religious. Whoever is without sin can cast that first stone. Nobody qualifies to do so.


None of the world's problems will be solved until the Jesus returns, as the Christians believe, and as to whether that happens remains to be seen.

1Hawdolfin4L
10-04-2010, 02:22 PM
Flag of Islam will one day fly over the WH. East AND West governed by Sharia.


From ABC News interview





http://freedomslighthouse.net/2010/10/03/muslim-cleric-declares-the-flag-of-islam-will-one-day-fly-over-the-white-house-video/



(http://freedomslighthouse.net/2010/10/03/muslim-cleric-declares-the-flag-of-islam-will-one-day-fly-over-the-white-house-video/)

What do you think about the cleric’s interpretation of the Koran?