PDA

View Full Version : Official: Melo to the Knicks



tylerdolphin
02-21-2011, 11:54 PM
Its official:


The Carmelo Anthony trade saga is finally over.
The Nuggets traded Melo to the New York Knicks tonight, a league source said. Denver gets Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick, the Warriors' 2012 second-round pick, the Warriors' 2013 second-round pick and $3 million in cash.
Anthony will go to New York, along with Chauncey Billups, Shelden Williams, Anthony Carter and Renaldo Balkman.
Anthony was not at the Nuggets' practice as the team resumed workouts following the All-Star break. Billups left the team's Monday practice without speaking to reporters.
Nuggets coach George Karl, after learning of the trade, said:
"I'm glad its over.


Read more: Carmelo Anthony traded to New York Knicks in blockbuster deal - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_17443219#ixzz1EelOqCMy
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Ricky_Fan34
02-22-2011, 12:06 AM
**** the knicks. At least Carmelo is out of the West now, I guess.

Fin_Frenzy_84
02-22-2011, 12:07 AM
It really does not help the knicks much if you break it down...

Ricky_Fan34
02-22-2011, 12:09 AM
It really does not help the knicks much if you break it down...
Well it's hard to say. It could backfire on them or it could wind up taking them deep in the playoffs. However, I still see no chance they get past a 7 game series with Orlando, Miami, or Boston. Only time will tell.

Fin_Frenzy_84
02-22-2011, 12:17 AM
Well it's hard to say. It could backfire on them or it could wind up taking them deep in the playoffs. However, I still see no chance they get past a 7 game series with Orlando, Miami, or Boston. Only time will tell.

Or Chicago you cant leave my team out!!! Chicago is one of the hottest teams in the NBA...

My whole point is there lineup is..

PG-Billups
SG-Fields
SF-Melo
PF-Amare
C-Turiaff

NO DEPTH or CENTER...

JCane
02-22-2011, 12:19 AM
It's official...

The Knicks still ****ing suck.

We not afraid of Caramelo. Please.

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2011/02/knicks_suck-1.jpg

Adam First
02-22-2011, 12:19 AM
They destroyed a pretty good young nucleus. They could have waited 'till the offseason, since it seemed like Czar Prokhorov and the Nets weren't going to budge and the Lakers speculation wasn't going to happen from the get-go.

Then again, it's the Knicks, why should we expect anything smart from their front office?

Ricky_Fan34
02-22-2011, 12:19 AM
Or Chicago you cant leave my team out!!! Chicago is one of the hottest teams in the NBA...

My whole point is there lineup is..

PG-Billups
SG-Fields
SF-Melo
PF-Amare
C-Turiaff

NO DEPTH or CENTER...
I'm not ready to consider Chiacgo elite quite yet. I like them, and I think they're on the way, but I want to see a bit more before I deem them among the elite.

X-Pacolypse
02-22-2011, 12:21 AM
The Knicks still suck.

Fin_Frenzy_84
02-22-2011, 12:24 AM
I'm not ready to consider Chiacgo elite quite yet. I like them, and I think they're on the way, but I want to see a bit more before I deem them among the elite.

Yet you think Magic are?

We are only 2.5 games back from first without being healthy at all this season...

PhinsPhan11
02-22-2011, 12:25 AM
We shouldn't worry about the Knicks. They will still be all offense but no defense. I think they will lose in the first round of the playoffs this year.

BARF
02-22-2011, 12:28 AM
they still gonna lose to the heat

Adam First
02-22-2011, 12:34 AM
We shouldn't worry about the Knicks. They will still be all offense but no defense.

Sounds like Mike D'Antoni's forte, no? Like when his high-flying Suns teams with Nash and Stoudemire would get bounced out in the first round of the playoffs every year.

dreday
02-22-2011, 12:38 AM
heck no.the knicks already don't play defense and melos not the answer.d'antoni doesnt want them to play defense anyway thats not his style.



but melo wants to play in ny,thats his final answer.LA doesnt really have any moveable pieces either that would make sense except for bynum.only id be extremely surprised if this is truly something denver would do.

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif (http://hotchyx.com/)

link (http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_17443219)


The Carmelo Anthony trade saga is finally over.
The Nuggets traded Melo to the New York Knicks tonight, a league source said. Denver gets Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick, the Warriors' 2012 second-round pick, the Warriors' 2013 second-round pick and $3 million in cash.

that said, isaih is back in charge!!!:chuckle:

dreday
02-22-2011, 12:42 AM
Its official:

looks like brewer to NY too..wow isaih REALLY is there!!

Ricky_Fan34
02-22-2011, 12:45 AM
Yet you think Magic are?

We are only 2.5 games back from first without being healthy at all this season...
Yes, I do think the Magic are elite. They've made deep pushes into the playoffs recently, where as the Bulls havn't done jack**** until this year. The Bulls are very good, but elite IMO means perenially good and perenially a threat to make it to the finals.

Kdawg954
02-22-2011, 12:45 AM
they should have just waited until the offseason and come back next year loaded . . . they ain't makin it this year and they would have had a MUCH better team next year. Oh well.

PhinsPhan11
02-22-2011, 12:46 AM
Sounds like Mike D'Antoni's forte, no? Like when his high-flying Suns teams with Nash and Stoudemire would get bounced out in the first round of the playoffs every year.
All offense with no defense will never win you a title.

dreday
02-22-2011, 12:50 AM
the west definitely got easier...

Fin_Frenzy_84
02-22-2011, 12:53 AM
Yes, I do think the Magic are elite. They've made deep pushes into the playoffs recently, where as the Bulls havn't done jack**** until this year. The Bulls are very good, but elite IMO means perenially good and perenially a threat to make it to the finals.
You dont think the Bulls are a threat to make the finals yet you think the heat who are 1-6 againts top teams are a threat.
Also dont bring up playoff pushes recently because Magic and Bulls are completely Different...

Ricky_Fan34
02-22-2011, 12:56 AM
You dont think the Bulls are a threat to make the finals yet you think the heat who are 1-6 againts top teams are a threat.
Also dont bring up playoff pushes recently because Magic and Bulls are completely Different...
That's not at all what I'm saying. I do think the Bulls are a threat, I'm simply saying that at this point, they aren't elite IMO.

dreday
02-22-2011, 01:02 AM
ny should see if there is anything they could do to get a lopez/nash deal done....

dreday
02-22-2011, 01:05 AM
hollingers formula says three teams just got worse...

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4g2dyww

Ricky_Fan34
02-22-2011, 01:06 AM
ny should see if there is anything they could do to get a lopez/nash deal done....
I don't think there is any chance Phoenix trades Lopez. Trading Nash is unlikely IMO, but I see no chance that Lopez gets traded. I think Phoenix is going to stay with what they have and see if they can make a run at the playoffs. Their odds are very favorable considering the fact that 2 playoff teams in the West right now are in compelte disarray. The Jazz have yet to win a game in the post Jerry Sloan era, and the Nuggets just traded away their star player. Things are looking good in the valley of the sun right now.

Fin_Frenzy_84
02-22-2011, 01:12 AM
That's not at all what I'm saying. I do think the Bulls are a threat, I'm simply saying that at this point, they aren't elite IMO.
I respect your opinon but dont see how we are not when the top 5 rebounder in the league has been out and early in the season a top 5 PF was out and we are still up there with the Celtics and Heat and above the Magic.

Ricky_Fan34
02-22-2011, 01:18 AM
I respect your opinon but dont see how we are not when the top 5 rebounder in the league has been out and early in the season a top 5 PF was out and we are still up there with the Celtics and Heat and above the Magic.
I'm basing it off of the last few years as well as this year. I just don't like to throw out the term 'elite' at the drop of a hat. When I think elite, I think about teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Magic, and maybe even the Spurs. All teams that are perenially good, and teams that are always in the mix in the playoffs. I just think the Heat are elite because I don't see how many teams are going to be able to beat them 4 times out of 7.

The Bulls are certainly a contender, but like I said, I use the term 'elite' to describe teams that ALWAYS contend.

dreday
02-22-2011, 01:20 AM
jalen rose: knicks have the 5th best starting lineup in the NBA..

:lol: :lol: :lol:

have to hate this guy...

kud
02-22-2011, 01:54 AM
Oh great another EC team bulks up, now there's 6 teams that are legitimately dangerous/contenders. Celtics, Heat, Bulls, Magic, Knicks, Hawks. The pendulum is finally starting to swing back towards the East after the west had most of the dominant teams the last decade+

jree
02-22-2011, 02:38 AM
Knicks are still not going to get passed the Celtics and will struggle against the Heat b/c of lack of Defense. The only upper echelon team they match up well with in the post season is the Bulls. Boozer will not be able to handle Stoudamire or Anthony and as of right now, there is no telling what kind of condiiton Noah will be in when he gets back.

---------- Post added at 01:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 AM ----------


jalen rose: knicks have the 5th best starting lineup in the NBA..

:lol: :lol: :lol:

have to hate this guy...

He talks outta his *** so much.

Ferretsquig
02-22-2011, 07:43 AM
At least they managed to keep Fields and Douglas.

I don't see them being much better than they were before the trade. They're still going to suck on defense.....you know Amare and 'Melo are going to end up playing center and pf more often than any other combo. And I don't see how Billups is that much of an upgrade over Felton. Ray fit beautifully with D'Antonio.

Hard to fault them.....its something they had to do. There was no guarantee he would ever get out of Denver in the offseason and signing him as a free agent would have been a very difficult task. Still I don't think they're contending anytime soon.

Clipse
02-22-2011, 08:54 AM
Why would the Knicks do this? It doesn't make them a better team. It just makes them a better scoring team. Carmelo could care less about defense. Plus, they could of got Carmelo for free.

JCane
02-22-2011, 09:20 AM
Biggest winners in this deal are the Lakers, Mavericks, and Spurs.

Ferretsquig
02-22-2011, 10:34 AM
Even healthy, happy, and motivated, would you take the Nuggets over the Spurs, Mavs, or Lakers in a 7 game series?


Why would the Knicks do this? It doesn't make them a better team. It just makes them a better scoring team. Carmelo could care less about defense. Plus, they could of got Carmelo for free.

'Melo was looking for the money. It wouldn't be surprising if it comes out that 'Melo told the Knicks to either trade for him or watch him sign an extension in NJ or Denver. I think he was frightened of what the new CBA will be, and rightfully so. The owners will get what they want.....they always do.

And if you're the Knicks you do it because this is a star driven league, and 'Melo is a star. You don't win in this league without a couple top 20 players. It'll take time, but they now have the foundation for a championship team.....they couldn't say that yesterday.

jree
02-22-2011, 10:56 AM
'Melo was looking for the money. It wouldn't be surprising if it comes out that 'Melo told the Knicks to either trade for him or watch him sign an extension in NJ or Denver. I think he was frightened of what the new CBA will be, and rightfully so. The owners will get what they want.....they always do.

And if you're the Knicks you do it because this is a star driven league, and 'Melo is a star. You don't win in this league without a couple top 20 players. It'll take time, but they now have the foundation for a championship team.....they couldn't say that yesterday.

Unless your this guy

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2011/02/dangilbert-1.jpg

Clipse
02-22-2011, 11:23 AM
Even healthy, happy, and motivated, would you take the Nuggets over the Spurs, Mavs, or Lakers in a 7 game series?



'Melo was looking for the money. It wouldn't be surprising if it comes out that 'Melo told the Knicks to either trade for him or watch him sign an extension in NJ or Denver. I think he was frightened of what the new CBA will be, and rightfully so. The owners will get what they want.....they always do.

And if you're the Knicks you do it because this is a star driven league, and 'Melo is a star. You don't win in this league without a couple top 20 players. It'll take time, but they now have the foundation for a championship team.....they couldn't say that yesterday.

What foundation? The Knicks are never winning a championship with their 2 best players being god awful defenders, especially with a terrible coach like D'Antoni. They replaced a 26 year old PG having a great year for a 34 year old PG who probably won't be there next year. They traded Chandler, Gallinari, and Mozgov. Got a bunch of bums back. I actually feel bad for Knicks fans. That team isn't going anywhere.

Cleetus
02-22-2011, 11:43 AM
Haha, the haters will hate. Don't worry heat fans we are still a year or two away from competing for the championship with you. Do not forget that you had a year head start with your off the shelf bought team as well.

As for the trade, you all give the knicks a lot of crap because of the all offense no defense system they run and in the same breath say that the knicks gave up a great nucleus of young players in the melo trade. Time will tell if these players are average players whose numbers were bumped up under the knicks system or if they actually will be starters on another team. Most of the players traded from the knicks would not have been resigned by the knicks when their contracts ran out anyway. Galo will be a nice role player if he stays healthy.

The knicks do need a more defensive minded coach, I will give you that, and they are not done making moves yet still will get a long term point guard and a big body to take up space in the middle. So you do have a year or two to get your business in order heat fans, you may be right in "not being afraid" at the moment but there exists that seed of worry in your minds that was not there 2 nights ago... Maybe the knicks are going to be a team to worry about.

Ferretsquig
02-22-2011, 11:57 AM
Pierce was a miserable defender. Ray Allen never played defense in his life. Doc Rivers was a horrible coach whose teams consistently ranked among the leagues worst in every defensive category. Remember his glorious Orlando days?

Anthony can play defense.....Amare can as well. D'Antoni can and has coached good defensive teams when hes had the talent.

I know its not what the 76er's fan wants to hear, but in the NBA you don't win with clever drafting and by nurturing average talent. You either luck out and land a superstar in the draft, find a way to trade for one, or are a desirable enough location to attract one via free agency. Every year you can pick 3-6 teams from which the champion will emerge, and they all have similar characteristics. In a sport where individual talent reigns supreme, that's just the way its always going to be.

Clipse
02-22-2011, 01:10 PM
Pierce was a miserable defender. Ray Allen never played defense in his life. Doc Rivers was a horrible coach whose teams consistently ranked among the leagues worst in every defensive category. Remember his glorious Orlando days?

Anthony can play defense.....Amare can as well. D'Antoni can and has coached good defensive teams when hes had the talent.

I know its not what the 76er's fan wants to hear, but in the NBA you don't win with clever drafting and by nurturing average talent. You either luck out and land a superstar in the draft, find a way to trade for one, or are a desirable enough location to attract one via free agency. Every year you can pick 3-6 teams from which the champion will emerge, and they all have similar characteristics. In a sport where individual talent reigns supreme, that's just the way its always going to be.

Saying Carmelo and Amare can play defense is the most laughable thing I've ever heard. Amare even said he's never been taught defense, and I believe it. One pathetic excuse for a defender. The difference between the Celtics and Knicks, Thibodeu is one of the best defensive coaches I've seen, and that's why the Bulls will be a championship contender year in and year out. Knicks will never win a title with their current setup, and neither will the Heat as long as they keep putting garbage around the big 3. The NBA is not a superstar driven league at all. You need great coaching/system. Celtics have a great system on both sides of the floor. As did the Pistons. As do the Lakers. As have the Spurs for the longest time under Popovich. The Knicks system is a disaster that will never beat a good team in a 7 game series. The Heat's big 3 will never beat a great team in a 7 game series by themselves either. They can't even do it in the regular season.

And when has D'Antoni ever coached a good defense? It wasn't with the Nuggets when he was fired after 1 season. It wasn't with the Suns where he had a bottom 7 defense every year there.

Ferretsquig
02-22-2011, 02:17 PM
Saying Carmelo and Amare can play defense is the most laughable thing I've ever heard. Amare even said he's never been taught defense, and I believe it. One pathetic excuse for a defender.

Of course he has to learn and put forth the effort but that doesn't mean he can't play d.


And when has D'Antoni ever coached a good defense? It wasn't with the Nuggets when he was fired after 1 season. It wasn't with the Suns where he had a bottom 7 defense every year there.

He had a very good defensive team with the Suns during the Kurt Thomas era.

Clipse
02-22-2011, 05:06 PM
Of course he has to learn and put forth the effort but that doesn't mean he can't play d.



He had a very good defensive team with the Suns during the Kurt Thomas era.

28th and 23rd ranked defenses while Kurt Thomas was there. Talk about a very good defensive team. D'Antoni has never, and will never coach a top 15 defensive team. He's a poor mans Don Nelson. Nelson never won a championship, and neither will D'Antoni, with a similar system.

PhinsPhan11
02-22-2011, 05:33 PM
28th and 23rd ranked defenses while Kurt Thomas was there. Talk about a very good defensive team. D'Antoni has never, and will never coach a top 15 defensive team. He's a poor mans Don Nelson. Nelson never won a championship, and neither will D'Antoni, with a similar system.
This.

dreday
02-22-2011, 05:36 PM
28th and 23rd ranked defenses while Kurt Thomas was there. Talk about a very good defensive team. D'Antoni has never, and will never coach a top 15 defensive team. He's a poor mans Don Nelson. Nelson never won a championship, and neither will D'Antoni, with a similar system.

/////thread

Ferretsquig
02-22-2011, 06:34 PM
28th and 23rd ranked defenses while Kurt Thomas was there. Talk about a very good defensive team. D'Antoni has never, and will never coach a top 15 defensive team. He's a poor mans Don Nelson. Nelson never won a championship, and neither will D'Antoni, with a similar system.

He coached the 13th ranked defense in '07 and 11th in '06. And while that's nothing spectacular, they were actually a good defensive squad......just undersized and poor rebounders. Marion, Thomas, Bell, Jones....he had some quality players on those teams.

Lets not be so simple minded that we measure efficiency by total points scored. Teams play at a different pace, and the total points scored for or against has nothing to do with how good an offense or defense is.

dreday
02-22-2011, 09:20 PM
d'Antoni's system wins you games during the season, but come playoffs when the uptempo style is gone and the half court game settles in then its a wrap.

just ask greg popovich.

Clipse
02-22-2011, 09:28 PM
He coached the 13th ranked defense in '07 and 11th in '06. And while that's nothing spectacular, they were actually a good defensive squad......just undersized and poor rebounders. Marion, Thomas, Bell, Jones....he had some quality players on those teams.

Lets not be so simple minded that we measure efficiency by total points scored. Teams play at a different pace, and the total points scored for or against has nothing to do with how good an offense or defense is.

No need to be simple minded. Points determine games, and if you're giving up a lot of them, guess what, you're not very good defensively. And it's not like Phoenix made up for giving up a lot of points by doing other things. 14th and 16th in opponent FG% those 2 years. 21st and 25th in steals. 13th and 15th in blocks. 20th both years in opposing 3 point %. So please, explain to me again when D'Antoni ever coached a "very good defense", because it's never happened, and it never will, especially when you get rid of your only perimeter defender in Chandler, and replace him with a god awful defender like Carmelo.

jree
02-22-2011, 10:21 PM
The biggest mistake thats happening for them is having foul happy, brick hands Turiaf as the starting Center. He sucks.

Ferretsquig
02-23-2011, 07:33 AM
Walsh already stated that he wants to find a center before the end of the trading deadline. Nobody wants Turiaf starting.

Its going to take time to round out the roster......just like it will with the Heat. Everyone knows they're going to go after DWill/CP3/Howard as the third spoke and if they can pull that off it'll be another great decade long rivalry.


No need to be simple minded. Points determine games, and if you're giving up a lot of them, guess what, you're not very good defensively. And it's not like Phoenix made up for giving up a lot of points by doing other things. 14th and 16th in opponent FG% those 2 years. 21st and 25th in steals. 13th and 15th in blocks. 20th both years in opposing 3 point %. So please, explain to me again when D'Antoni ever coached a "very good defense", because it's never happened, and it never will, especially when you get rid of your only perimeter defender in Chandler, and replace him with a god awful defender like Carmelo.

The only stat that matters when measuring a team's defense is points given up per possession. You could have the best defense in the league and give up the most points if you ran a hundred plays a game. We had some very good defensive squads in the 80s that gave up more points than the worst defensive teams of the late 90s. Steals and blocks run a close second and third to points per game and the most meaningless stats when determining the quality of a defense. Those stalwart defenses in Golden State and Memphis lead the league in steals. Washington and the almighty NY Knicks in blocks.

JCane
02-23-2011, 07:36 AM
Sunday.

Knicks @ Heat

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

Clipse
02-23-2011, 08:39 AM
Walsh already stated that he wants to find a center before the end of the trading deadline. Nobody wants Turiaf starting.

Its going to take time to round out the roster......just like it will with the Heat. Everyone knows they're going to go after DWill/CP3/Howard as the third spoke and if they can pull that off it'll be another great decade long rivalry.



The only stat that matters when measuring a team's defense is points given up per possession. You could have the best defense in the league and give up the most points if you ran a hundred plays a game. We had some very good defensive squads in the 80s that gave up more points than the worst defensive teams of the late 90s. Steals and blocks run a close second and third to points per game and the most meaningless stats when determining the quality of a defense. Those stalwart defenses in Golden State and Memphis lead the league in steals. Washington and the almighty NY Knicks in blocks.

19th and 16th in defensive effieciency. As I said, D'Antoni has never, and will never coach even a top 15 defensive team, and will never coach a team to an NBA championship, guaranteed.

Cleetus
02-23-2011, 09:23 AM
Sunday.

Knicks @ Heat

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif



Heat will win, no big mystery there. year or two from now who knows. Knicks are presently an unfinished product. Enjoy your time in the Sun....while it lasts.

Ferretsquig
02-23-2011, 11:14 AM
19th and 16th in defensive effieciency. As I said, D'Antoni has never, and will never coach even a top 15 defensive team, and will never coach a team to an NBA championship, guaranteed.

Alright....we're getting closer aren't we? Defensive efficiency is usually a nice statistic which varies based on how its defined. I prefer points per possession, a possession being defined by a reset in the play clock. To me that's the most accurate assessment of what a team can do on the defensive end.

jree
02-23-2011, 05:15 PM
Heat will win, no big mystery there. year or two from now who knows. Knicks are presently an unfinished product. Enjoy your time in the Sun....while it lasts.

You act as if the Heat are a team that was put together through trades with expiring contracts and old core players. Our team isn't some band-aid team that was put together with a win now mentality. The Heat are built for the long haul.

And I like how you state that the Knicks are an unfinished product. What the hell do you think is going on with Heat? We don't have a state tax so players get almost their whole salary compared to anywhere else. We have two top teir superstars and 1 second teir superstar signed for the next several years and all 3 of them are in their prime. How fast do you really think the sun is gonna set on them?

Do me a favor, next you see Stoudamire putting in some serious minutes, count how many heat/ice packs he has on that surgically repaired knee of his when he's on the bench.

While it lasts.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I can't wait till Donnie Walsh leaves NY and goes back to Indy and Isaiah leaves my state and runs the Knicks right into the ground again.

PhinsPhan11
02-23-2011, 06:35 PM
Sunday.

Knicks @ Heat

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif
The Heat should win that one easily.

nick1
02-23-2011, 07:40 PM
yea the knicks cant beat the Heat, the Knicks are still one of the worst defensive teams in the league. maybe in the future they will add more to that team but Miami will add a better center and pg in the coming years as well. Miami is not done just like NY isnt done

jree
02-23-2011, 09:28 PM
Thank you. Atleast some people get it

Cleetus
02-24-2011, 02:47 PM
You act as if the Heat are a team that was put together through trades with expiring contracts and old core players. Our team isn't some band-aid team that was put together with a win now mentality. The Heat are built for the long haul.

And I like how you state that the Knicks are an unfinished product. What the hell do you think is going on with Heat? We don't have a state tax so players get almost their whole salary compared to anywhere else. We have two top teir superstars and 1 second teir superstar signed for the next several years and all 3 of them are in their prime. How fast do you really think the sun is gonna set on them?

Do me a favor, next you see Stoudamire putting in some serious minutes, count how many heat/ice packs he has on that surgically repaired knee of his when he's on the bench.

While it lasts.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I can't wait till Donnie Walsh leaves NY and goes back to Indy and Isaiah leaves my state and runs the Knicks right into the ground again.

Dude, you are going to have a long wait for Isaiah, but what ever you want to do with your time is cool with me. Also, I never said we would win the championship I said we would be in the running along with the heat. Wade tears an achilles and we surpass them with your logic.

Clipse
02-24-2011, 04:35 PM
Dude, you are going to have a long wait for Isaiah, but what ever you want to do with your time is cool with me. Also, I never said we would win the championship I said we would be in the running along with the heat. Wade tears an achilles and we surpass them with your logic.

No team is ever in the running for a championship when they play no defense. As I've stated before, as a Sixers fan I'm ecstatic about the trade because I know the Knicks are only interested in winning regular season games, and not championships.

Cleetus
02-24-2011, 05:15 PM
No team is ever in the running for a championship when they play no defense. As I've stated before, as a Sixers fan I'm ecstatic about the trade because I know the Knicks are only interested in winning regular season games, and not championships.


I am glad you are happy with the trade, so am I. Again the knicks are not done here so all this talk about no defense is moot in 2 years when they may very well have other personnel and a different coach. You all have sing the same refrain and you may be right for the time being but tell me in 2 years whether I was completely wrong or not in saying the Knicks will matter like the heat and the Bulls, Boston and the Lakers.

Clipse
02-24-2011, 06:26 PM
I am glad you are happy with the trade, so am I. Again the knicks are not done here so all this talk about no defense is moot in 2 years when they may very well have other personnel and a different coach. You all have sing the same refrain and you may be right for the time being but tell me in 2 years whether I was completely wrong or not in saying the Knicks will matter like the heat and the Bulls, Boston and the Lakers.

It could change, but it's doubtful when the core of your team is 2 god awful defenders in Stoudemire and Anthony. Who knows, maybe when the Knicks smarten up and fire D'Antoni they can land a guy like Thibodeu. But as long as D'Antoni is coaching the Knicks, I can guarantee they won't come close to winning a championship.

jree
02-24-2011, 06:43 PM
Dude, you are going to have a long wait for Isaiah, but what ever you want to do with your time is cool with me. Also, I never said we would win the championship I said we would be in the running along with the heat. Wade tears an achilles and we surpass them with your logic.

It has nothing to do with my logic, it has to do with Stoudamires ability to play on his surgically repaired knee without putting heat or ice on his knees, not how Wade might tear his achilies.

BTW, your the one that said for us to enjoy the Heat's time in the sun while it lasts, whatever the hell that means. I take that as your logic being the Knicks are about to go on a Championship run and the Heat are about to fade or something. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

And James Dolan consulting with Isiah while Donnie Walsh is still team president? I don't think I have to wait that long. It'll be even greater if he destroys that franchise pro-bono. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The funny thing is is that Walsh has to be the best thing to happen to the Knicks since Ewing but Dolan is too blind to realize that.

Congratulations sir, your team has become the pre-Tyson Chandler era Dallas Mavericks/Pheonix Suns.

Cleetus
02-25-2011, 12:31 AM
It has nothing to do with my logic, it has to do with Stoudamires ability to play on his surgically repaired knee without putting heat or ice on his knees, not how Wade might tear his achilies.

BTW, your the one that said for us to enjoy the Heat's time in the sun while it lasts, whatever the hell that means. I take that as your logic being the Knicks are about to go on a Championship run and the Heat are about to fade or something. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

And James Dolan consulting with Isiah while Donnie Walsh is still team president? I don't think I have to wait that long. It'll be even greater if he destroys that franchise pro-bono. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The funny thing is is that Walsh has to be the best thing to happen to the Knicks since Ewing but Dolan is too blind to realize that.

Congratulations sir, your team has become the pre-Tyson Chandler era Dallas Mavericks/Pheonix Suns.


Amare has shown no signs of any problems, unless you are in the training room and have some info that others do not, wait and see if Donnie gets his extension and the time in the sun comment was about how the heat should have a year or 2 competition free , at least from the knicks, by all "expert" accounts. Although the bulls and celts seem to be a different immediate threat. After a year or two I do believe the Knicks WILL be a threat like the bulls and celts. I believe that addresses all your concerns, you seem to follow the knicks more than one would expect though so you might have some more points that need addressing.

jree
02-25-2011, 02:33 AM
I don't just pay attention to the Heat. I am a huge fan of basketball. Being an athlete and someone who used to play ball, I triy to watch all players who intrigue me on the court. From Ewing and Mourning to Kobe and Wade, I appreciate the game. I have nothing against the Knicks or any other team. I respect individual players the same way I don't like certain individual players. Its actually sports fans that I don't like. I hope that answers your question on why I pay attention to the knicks or any other team in the NBA. The Heat just happen to be my favorite team. So if your trying to be a smartass by implying I pay attention to them because I have "concerns" or some type of obssession, stop it cause your a Jet fan replying to a basketball thread started on a Dolphins website.

Cleetus
02-25-2011, 12:01 PM
I don't just pay attention to the Heat. I am a huge fan of basketball. Being an athlete and someone who used to play ball, I triy to watch all players who intrigue me on the court. From Ewing and Mourning to Kobe and Wade, I appreciate the game. I have nothing against the Knicks or any other team. I respect individual players the same way I don't like certain individual players. Its actually sports fans that I don't like. I hope that answers your question on why I pay attention to the knicks or any other team in the NBA. The Heat just happen to be my favorite team. So if your trying to be a smartass by implying I pay attention to them because I have "concerns" or some type of obssession, stop it cause your a Jet fan replying to a basketball thread started on a Dolphins website.

Dude, I hate the Jets. Love the Dolphins first and foremost, then the NY Giants second. Also like The Mets, Knicks and Islanders. Now you know.All I am saying is wait before you nail the coffin on the Knicks. Give us a year or two. Moves keep coming. Lots of Haters for the Knicks now coming out of the woodwork when they are headed in the right direction. I apologize if I was in error if I mistook you for one of them.

jree
02-25-2011, 01:05 PM
Dude, I hate the Jets. Love the Dolphins first and foremost, then the NY Giants second. Also like The Mets, Knicks and Islanders. Now you know.All I am saying is wait before you nail the coffin on the Knicks. Give us a year or two. Moves keep coming. Lots of Haters for the Knicks now coming out of the woodwork when they are headed in the right direction. I apologize if I was in error if I mistook you for one of them.

Big misunderstanding. I only took offense b/c A) I misundertood the time in the sun reference and B) I thought you were jets fan.

Like I said, I don't hate on any team except maybe the Celtics

Ferretsquig
02-25-2011, 08:20 PM
Bill Simmons makes about as good an argument as can be made for why you do the trade every time. This goes for both 'Melo and Williams.



If you disagree with the previous few paragraphs, you're bucking five solid decades of NBA history. Since 1965, not one NBA team that traded a package of pieces for a superstar regretted it after the fact. Don't believe me? Here's the complete list:

1965: Philly trades Connie Dierking, Paul Neumann, Lee Shaffer and cash to San Francisco for Wilt Chamberlain.

1968: Lakers trade Jerry Chambers, Archie Clark and Darrell Imhoff to Philly for Wilt Chamberlain.

1970: Milwaukee trades Flynn Robinson and Charlie Paulk to Cincinnati for Oscar Robertson.

1975: Lakers trade Elmore Smith, Brian Winters, Dave Meyers and Junior Bridgeman to Milwaukee for Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

1983: Philly trades Caldwell Jones and Cleveland's 1983 first-rounder (No. 3, Rodney McCray) to Houston for Moses Malone.

1993: Phoenix trades Jeff Hornacek, Tim Perry and Andrew Lang to Philly for Charles Barkley.

1994: Washington trades Tom Gugliotta, 1996 first-rounder (No. 11, Todd Fuller), 1998 first (No. 13, Keon Clark) and 2000 first (No. 7, Chris Mihm) to Golden State for Chris Webber.

1996: Houston trades Robert Horry, Sam Cassell, Chucky Brown and Mark Bryant to Phoenix for Charles Barkley.

1996: Phoenix trades Michael Finley, Sam Cassell, A.C. Green and a 1998 No. 2 (No. 53, Greg Buckner) to Dallas for Jason Kidd, Tony Dumas and Loren Meyer.

1999: Phoenix trades Danny Manning, Pat Garrity, 2001 first-rounder (No. 18, Jason Collins) and 2002 first (No. 9, Amare Stoudemire) to Orlando for Penny Hardaway.

2004: Houston trades Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley and Kelvin Cato to Orlando for Tracy McGrady, Tyronn Lue, Reece Gaines and Juwan Howard.

2005: New Jersey trades Alonzo Mourning, Eric Williams, Aaron Williams, Philly's 2005 No. 1 pick (No. 16, Joey Graham) and a 2006 No. 1 (No. 20, Renaldo Balkman) to Toronto for Vince Carter.

2005: Miami trades Lamar Odom, Brian Grant, Caron Butler, a 2006 No. 1 (No. 26, Jordan Farmar) and a
2006 No. 2 (No. 50, Renaldas Seibutis) to the Lakers for Shaquille O'Neal.

2007: Boston trades Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, a 2009 No. 1 (No. 28, Wayne Ellington) and the rights to Minnesota's 2009 No. 1 (No. 6, Jonny Flynn) to Minnesota for Kevin Garnett.

2008: Lakers trade Kwame Brown, Jarvaris Crittendon, Aaron McKie, the rights to Marc Gasol, a 2008 No. 1 (No. 28, Donte Greene) and a 2010 No. 1 (No. 28, Greivis Vasquez) to Memphis for Pau Gasol.

That's 15 trades in all. Eight of them (Wilt, Wilt again, Oscar, Moses, Barkley, Shaq, KG and Gasol) resulted in a championship or a Finals appearance within two seasons. The Lakers ended up winning five titles with Kareem. Houston came within two wins and a Matt Maloney meltdown of making the '97 Finals with Barkley. Jersey easily won the Vince trade; same for Houston with T-Mac. Phoenix won the Kidd trade, although Finley had a nice career in Dallas. Washington's Webber deal could have backfired if any of the picks panned out ... but they didn't. Only Phoenix's Penny deal failed to work out, but in a strange twist, the Suns got their No. 1 pick back in a subsequent deal and took Stoudemire with it, so even THAT trade worked out. Fifteen for 15! When in doubt, you always want to grab the dollar bill if you're giving up change in the NBA.

Clipse
02-25-2011, 08:26 PM
And history also shows bottom tier defenses don't win championships.

jree
02-25-2011, 08:32 PM
I completely disagree with the Shaq trade. He was not the reason the Heat won. This team would have been better in the long run with Odom and Butler playing alongside Wade

Ricky_Fan34
02-26-2011, 12:00 AM
:lol:

how about those Knicks? Lost to cleveland tonight hahahah

Ferretsquig
02-26-2011, 07:01 AM
I completely disagree with the Shaq trade. He was not the reason the Heat won. This team would have been better in the long run with Odom and Butler playing alongside Wade

They wouldn't have had the 15 win season but they also wouldn't have had the championship. That's the whole point.....the good players might get you into the playoffs, but it takes a couple greats to win a title.

I'll be one of the first to point out how 'Zo was the better player in the finals but the Heat would have never gotten that far without Shaq. There were plenty of games in the regular and post season where they leaned on him and he carried the team. That's something Alonzo, Odom, and Butler could never do.

They probably would have won more regular season games with Odom and Butler. And 5 yrs later, if Odom and Wade had matured the way they have, they might have become a formidable duo. Remember it took Odom a decade and an olympic appearance before he decided to show up and play every game.

jree
02-26-2011, 02:01 PM
I think that odom and bultler team was more than capable of winning a title together. That Shaq Heat team was one of the worst teams in history to ever win one. Arison and Riley got desperate and went the Marlins championship route instead of slowly building a contendor. I knew it was going to bite us in the *** in the long run bringing Shaq here. I've always hated Shaq and I always will. We didn't even benefit from that 15 win season cause our draft pick doesn't even play for us anymore. And Odom turned his life around when he left LA. He started to play when he got to south beach and I was genuinley upset to see him and Caron go in favor of that fat *** Shaq. If anything I think it set us back a couple of years just for a quick fix.

I understand completely what the point of the article is and agree with every single move except the Shaq move. I do think that bringing Melo in is something that the Knicks needed to do. I don't disagree with this move at all. I don't see this lineup ever turning into a championship team. A contendor yes, winner, not so much. I don't agree with the D-Will move. If there was some kind of guarantee that he was going to stay, hell yeah. But since there isn't, it could very well turn into something that will hurt them for a very long time. Phrokorov is turing into a very aggressive owner so that could spell good things for them but who knows.

jree
02-26-2011, 02:06 PM
:lol:

how about those Knicks? Lost to cleveland tonight hahahah

I didn't get to watch the game but I watched the highlights. Is it me or does it seem that Melo faked that elbow injury?

Ferretsquig
02-26-2011, 05:07 PM
I think that odom and bultler team was more than capable of winning a title together. That Shaq Heat team was one of the worst teams in history to ever win one. Arison and Riley got desperate and went the Marlins championship route instead of slowly building a contendor. I knew it was going to bite us in the *** in the long run bringing Shaq here. I've always hated Shaq and I always will. We didn't even benefit from that 15 win season cause our draft pick doesn't even play for us anymore. And Odom turned his life around when he left LA. He started to play when he got to south beach and I was genuinley upset to see him and Caron go in favor of that fat *** Shaq. If anything I think it set us back a couple of years just for a quick fix.

Yeh but it worked. I can see arguing against it if they hadn't won the title but at the end of the day they walked away with those rings and now this franchise can count itself amongst the few in this league that have won it all. There is a long list of franchises with guys just as good or better than Wade that never won anything because they were unable to find that complementary star.

Odom was always extremely gifted and flighty as hell. Even when the Lakers were winning that title you had no idea what Odom you were getting.....flirting with a triple double with the offense running through him one night and the next he takes 3 shots and never ventures into the post. It was ok when he was cast as a 6th man and they had three other guys they could lean on but he was never meant to be the primary or secondary option. Some sort of switch was flipped during the world's and for some reason we've seen a completely different character this year.

As far as biting the Heat in their arse.....I don't see it. Riley built one contender, sucked for three years, and built another. And if everything had gone to plan, they would have sucked for one year, landed Rose, and built a contender around him and Wade instead. I don't see the downside anywhere in going for broke in the NBA.


I don't agree with the D-Will move. If there was some kind of guarantee that he was going to stay, hell yeah. But since there isn't, it could very well turn into something that will hurt them for a very long time. Phrokorov is turing into a very aggressive owner so that could spell good things for them but who knows.

As long as you believe the assertion that a team needs a top 10 player to win a title, which has been pretty consistent over the last 70 yrs so I don't know why you wouldn't, it makes perfect sense. Just add up the probability of acquiring a player of Deron's caliber with those two picks and Favors and compare it to whatever percentage chance you think there is that Deron will stick around. One of those picks will be in the 8-15 range, which I see as having about a 1% chance of landing a perennial all star. The other will be in the late 20s which generates for all intensive purposes zero all stars.

jree
02-26-2011, 06:27 PM
Yeh but it worked. I can see arguing against it if they hadn't won the title but at the end of the day they walked away with those rings and now this franchise can count itself amongst the few in this league that have won it all. There is a long list of franchises with guys just as good or better than Wade that never won anything because they were unable to find that complementary star.

Odom was always extremely gifted and flighty as hell. Even when the Lakers were winning that title you had no idea what Odom you were getting.....flirting with a triple double with the offense running through him one night and the next he takes 3 shots and never ventures into the post. It was ok when he was cast as a 6th man and they had three other guys they could lean on but he was never meant to be the primary or secondary option. Some sort of switch was flipped during the world's and for some reason we've seen a completely different character this year.

Well thats the thing. The fact that they won a title puts all arguments to rest. I just don't like the manner in which they won it. Its my opinion that is heavily weighed with my hatred for shaq being a selfish player. I knew he was going to tear apart the locker room and I knew those band-aid pieces they placed around Wade were just that. The year they won the championship, Shaq barely played through the season. But like I said, the fact that they won the finals puts any and all arguments to rest.

Could you imagine if those lottery balls fell for the Heat. We'd have a backcourt of Wade and Rose. I get chills thinking about that.

Ferretsquig
02-27-2011, 08:39 AM
I was skeptical at the time and still wonder if it would have worked. Rose seems to have that drive to be great, and I think he'd succeed anywhere....still I think it would have taken them a while to learn how to coexist. There are two 7 yr vets who are among the most talented players in the world on this team now and they're still trying to figure it out 60 games into the season. Those two would have put on one hell of a show though.

If Wade wasn't brilliant for a 4 game stretch, if Mourning didn't come back and play so well, if Riley hadn't pulled off the miracle trade that landed him two starters and a key backup for Eddie Jones, if Payton hadn't fallen into Riley's lap, if Damon Jones didn't have a career year...........there were a lot of things that needed to go right for them to win that title that had nothing to do with Shaq because you're right, they weren't that great of a team. But they won the title, and that justifies it all. The Shaq trade could have and came very close to being a disaster, then again on the other hand it came very close to netting the Heat two titles which would have put it near the top of that list of superstar thefts.

In my opinion and I think Riley's if they had kept that core of Odom, Wade, and Butler together it would have been very difficult and taken an incredible amount of luck to go from playoff to title contenders. I think they would have needed one of those blind luck trades.....'Sheed, Gasol, Garnett.

Fin_Frenzy_84
03-26-2011, 01:57 PM
So are the bulls still not elite?

Ricky_Fan34
03-26-2011, 03:49 PM
So are the bulls still not elite?
They are certainly a lot closer in my books. Again, my definition of elite is a team that is sucessful year in and year out. This is the first time in a while that the Bulls have done so well. Show me what you have in the playoffs, and show me you can do it again next year.

They are certainly the best team in the East, but not technically elite, by my standards. It's a weird way to look at it like I do, but I just don't like to throw at the term 'elite' at the drop of a hat.