PDA

View Full Version : T.J. Yates' Pro Day



ckparrothead
03-31-2011, 01:40 PM
Evidently for whatever reason he was asked to throw 112 passes at his Pro Day...and he completed 110 of them.

You guys know me, you know I like Yates a lot. I consider him a guy that could absolutely become a franchise starter in the NFL.

I've been doing a lot of work on QBs and part of it is comparative work, putting clips up of similar throws from different players, which sort of highlights in your mind the difference between the players.

I have to say, Yates' footwork is FREAK-ISH. I mean downright FREAK quality.

What I found when I did my studies of QB releases was that if you measure the release from the lead-foot up, and then from the throwing elbow up, you obviously get different time readings. One is the full motion and the other is just the arm motion only.

Across the board, I found that guys with weaker arms tended to have more discrepancy between foot-up and elbow-up release times. In other words, Ryan Mallett's motion from lead foot-up would be something like 49 milliseconds, but his motion from drop elbow-up would be 43 milliseconds. But Andy Dalton, who has a much weaker arm, would be lead foot-up at 56 milliseconds (forget the exact numbers), and arm-up would be 41 milliseconds. The disparity between those (6 milliseconds and 15 milliseconds, respectively), would roughly correlate with strong-armed guys and weak-armed guys.

This is intuitive! I measured intermediate pocket passes with pocket rhythm. Guys with naturally weaker arms need their feet more to get the torque to drive the football, and it would only follow that would increase the time from when they start up with their lead foot and then start up their arm motion.

The exception? T.J. Yates. I don't think people accuse this guy of having a big arm, although sometimes you have to wonder when you see him throw the ball 55 or 60 yards thru the air with perfect ball placement on a vertical while on the run. But Yates had the SMALLEST discrepancy between foot-up and arm-up motions....of any QB I measured. His feet just move that fast and his weight transferrance is that efficient. He can shuffle and reset his feet inside the pocket, and then throw the ball like boxer punch, quicker than any player in this draft.

And he's ACCURATE. He's accurate short, and he's accurate deep. The problem is, in his ultra-conservative offense, you didn't see him throw a bunch of those intermediate sized 25 to 35 yard throws (thru the air, as the crow flies). You have to put together reams of tape to isolate enough of those throws to get a good sense for his accuracy. Luckily, nobody's ever accused me of being lazy, when it comes to Draft stuff. I've found that on those throws he has what I consider requisite accuracy, which is about 80 percent hitting the WR's hands.

And did I mention, he probably has THE most accurate deep ball in the Draft? Even more accurate than Newton or Mallett. When he played basketball, he was a star 3-point shooter. It shows in his deep ball as he drops that ball right in the bucket with great placement, timing and arc. I don't know why Chad Reuter seems on a crusade against high-arc deep balls. From what I've heard, especially from Sean Smith, quarterbacks are more prone to high-arc on their deep balls in the NFL, and hitting the outside shoulder, than in college.

He's a little over-aggressive, as TedSlimmJr has come to say, "The REAL T.J. Yates" shows up every now and then. He's referring to how in 2009 and prior, Yates did throw some interceptions.

He's an excellent game manager. That's not a bad thing. That's a good thing. He manages the clock. He manages situations. I don't know if there's a quarterback in this Draft that I would take over him if I had less than 2 minutes remaining with no timeouts and I needed to drive 50 or 60 yards to either get a touchdown or field goal to prevent losing the game. That's saying a LOT.

His dedication to the details is PHENOMENAL. Many times I mentioned in my initial scouting reports the name "Peyton Manning"...and as I did background on him, I found that he grew up and still is a diehard Colts fan, and has attended Manning Camp three consecutive years. What was he in charge of teaching the kids at Manning Camp? What else? THE DEEP BALL.

But you're talking a four year starter that has been thru ALL the ups and downs, kept fighting, fought thru adversity, all the hate mail, etc...and got BETTER. A guy that is accurate short, accurate intermediate and REAL accurate deep, a guy that is naturally aggressive but was harnessed by a conservative offense, a guy with FREAK footwork, the quickest release in the Draft, a dedication to the smallest of details, extremely hard worker, a leader, great game, situation and time manager...and this guy is so under the radar it's sickening.

Yeah, I've put Ponder above him. That hasn't always been the case. I do think physically Christian's top line is just higher as he's got more athletic ability and experience throwing the intermediate ball more often. You don't know if Yates is going to be a risky thrower again when he has to throw more aggressively again. That's the danger.

But I see Yates as like another Trent Green, similar footwork, similar effective deep ball.

JC
03-31-2011, 02:01 PM
As a late round option, I'm all for it.

justdev7
03-31-2011, 02:02 PM
Do you know if we were at his pro day? I'm guesing we were to get a look at other guys like Johny White, Robert Quinn, and Greg Little but I wonder if we have any interest in him at all. As you said he's flying way to far under the radar. If we can't get Mallet I would be really happy with Yates.

ckparrothead
03-31-2011, 02:32 PM
I know pro days are generally denigrated as not meaning anything. Whereas I thought intiially Locker had a solid pro day, people coming away from it have now started talking some smack about how the level of difficulty was a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10 and how teams were upset with the limited amount of throwing and the throw selection. Casserly said he threw two deep balls and missed both.

Well, anyway...THIS pro day has the potential to help Yates tremendously. It sounds to me like they allowed TEAMS to get involved in requesting throws and that's why it went into so many throws. And the teams no doubt want to see things they didn't see nearly enough on film which are those 25 to 35 yard throws, the intermediate flat ball, rolling out and making a "wow" throw, that sort of thing. So if he threw 112 passes and completed 110 of them, those scouts were putting him thru his paces big time and he passed with flying colors.

It has potential to be a big day for him because on tape in his senior year there's just a lack of pure reps on some of those bigger throws. There's no lack of the BIG throws, the deep vertical, but the offense was all like 13 to 18 yard throws (thru the air), followed by a BIG one like 55 yards on the vertical. There's a hole in that selection, and it sounds like the scouts really might have put him thru his paces filling that hole and he passed big time.

Could go 4th round based on this Pro Day. Seriously.

Aqua and Orange
03-31-2011, 02:57 PM
I know pro days are generally denigrated as not meaning anything. Whereas I thought intiially Locker had a solid pro day, people coming away from it have now started talking some smack about how the level of difficulty was a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10 and how teams were upset with the limited amount of throwing and the throw selection. Casserly said he threw two deep balls and missed both.

Well, anyway...THIS pro day has the potential to help Yates tremendously. It sounds to me like they allowed TEAMS to get involved in requesting throws and that's why it went into so many throws. And the teams no doubt want to see things they didn't see nearly enough on film which are those 25 to 35 yard throws, the intermediate flat ball, rolling out and making a "wow" throw, that sort of thing. So if he threw 112 passes and completed 110 of them, those scouts were putting him thru his paces big time and he passed with flying colors.

It has potential to be a big day for him because on tape in his senior year there's just a lack of pure reps on some of those bigger throws. There's no lack of the BIG throws, the deep vertical, but the offense was all like 13 to 18 yard throws (thru the air), followed by a BIG one like 55 yards on the vertical. There's a hole in that selection, and it sounds like the scouts really might have put him thru his paces filling that hole and he passed big time.

Could go 4th round based on this Pro Day. Seriously.

Thanks for the info on Locker. All anyone says is how many passes were completed, while the level of difficulty gets shrouded much of the time.

ckparrothead
03-31-2011, 03:10 PM
Here's from a source at the Pro Day.


Source: UNC quarterback has strong pro day
1 hour ago by AdamCaplan

Former University of North Carolina QB T.J. Yates participated in his school’s pro day on Thursday.

Yates, according to a source with knowledge of his workout results, went 110 of 112 during his throwing session. Quarterbacks usually make 50-60 throws during a pro day.

Yates (6’3” 3/10, 229), who is projected to go off the board on the third day of the 2011 NFL Draft, threw the ball with very strong power and accuracy. While it’s rare for a quarterback to have accuracy problems during a pro day workout because he’s throwing to his passing targets that are uncovered, Yates’ performance was “as about as good as it gets” and he threw with a lot of confidence, according to the source.

Yates threw to a variety of passes to WR Greg Little, TEs Ryan Taylor and Zack Pianalto, RB Johnny White and others.

Yates, who had scheduled private workouts for the Chicago Bears, Kansas City Chiefs and Atlanta Falcons, is coming off a strong throwing session during February’s NFL Scouting Combine.

According to the football program’s official Twitter account, Little ran a 4.50 40-yard dash, White ran a 4.53 and DE Robert Quinn posted a very solid 4.57.

Yates and his teammates had to deal with the absence of some key players last season due to suspensions.

“I'd challenge anybody to go look somewhere else for some worse adversity in a team and a program because we had it from all angles as far as NCAA and academic stuff,” the quarterback said during the combine. “And on top of that, we had a ton of injuries. There were times we were stretching our depth charts in the middle of games to fifth-string running back. (Head) coach (Butch) Davis would look on the sideline the s asking if anyone could run down on kickoff. It got pretty hectic at some points. But I don't think any other team in the country went through what we did and we still salvaged a very good season out of it.”

jamvinny
03-31-2011, 03:51 PM
I know pro days are generally denigrated as not meaning anything. Whereas I thought intiially Locker had a solid pro day, people coming away from it have now started talking some smack about how the level of difficulty was a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10 and how teams were upset with the limited amount of throwing and the throw selection. Casserly said he threw two deep balls and missed both.

Well, anyway...THIS pro day has the potential to help Yates tremendously. It sounds to me like they allowed TEAMS to get involved in requesting throws and that's why it went into so many throws. And the teams no doubt want to see things they didn't see nearly enough on film which are those 25 to 35 yard throws, the intermediate flat ball, rolling out and making a "wow" throw, that sort of thing. So if he threw 112 passes and completed 110 of them, those scouts were putting him thru his paces big time and he passed with flying colors.

It has potential to be a big day for him because on tape in his senior year there's just a lack of pure reps on some of those bigger throws. There's no lack of the BIG throws, the deep vertical, but the offense was all like 13 to 18 yard throws (thru the air), followed by a BIG one like 55 yards on the vertical. There's a hole in that selection, and it sounds like the scouts really might have put him thru his paces filling that hole and he passed big time.

Could go 4th round based on this Pro Day. Seriously.

CK - You made a great call last year with AJ Edds a guy you really liked and look where he went. I wonder if the same will happen to TJ Yates? I will be watching the 4th Round with anticipation.

ckparrothead
03-31-2011, 04:15 PM
Honestly I hope we've got a QB by then and I doubt we take two of them. But if we don't the Dolphins can dig part of their way out of my sh-t list by drafting Yates. :)

jamvinny
03-31-2011, 04:18 PM
I'm up for Mallet or Ponder in Round 1. If this does not pan out then we must consider TJ Yates or a similar QB with a good skillset and an application to learn and get better.

Really what is pleasing to hear is that Yates has come through adversity and has good upside. From a personal point of view I love the fact that Yates has a great release and good footwork. The attributes we loved about Dan Marino.

footsteps_falco
03-31-2011, 04:42 PM
GREAT write up

newlownorder
03-31-2011, 07:24 PM
Yates would definately fit that "competition" for Henne role. I agreed with Mayocks assessment of him. I don't have the man crush for him CK does, bit would be a good fit.

newlownorder
03-31-2011, 07:26 PM
Do you know if we were at his pro day? I'm guesing we were to get a look at other guys like Johny White, Robert Quinn, and Greg Little but I wonder if we have any interest in him at all. As you said he's flying way to far under the radar. If we can't get Mallet I would be really happy with Yates.

We were at the pro day.

DKphin
03-31-2011, 07:28 PM
Here's Yates in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_B8HCfUqv4

footsteps_falco
03-31-2011, 09:06 PM
I've seen a lot of people like CBSsports rank Yates as the 6th QB prospect this year. I really wouldn't be mad if we took ingram or traded down and took 2 players then grabbed Yates up.

Austin Tatious
03-31-2011, 09:47 PM
I like Yates. Maybe he could someday be a Sean Hill type of guy. But I am thinking backup. I agree he has tremendous footwork and a quick release. Two observations. His release looks really low. That is partly why he gets it out of there. His release is the anti-Kaepernick release partly because its so compact. Secondly, I am not seeing the arm strength. Can he stand back there and drive an out pattern at NE or Buf or NY in December? I don't see it. I do see a really good backup, and I'd be happy if Miami drafted two qbs with this kid the back end part of the bargain. But I am talking 5th or 6th, not 4th.

ckparrothead
03-31-2011, 09:55 PM
I like Yates. Maybe he could someday be a Sean Hill type of guy. But I am thinking backup. I agree he has tremendous footwork and a quick release. Two observations. His release looks really low. That is partly why he gets it out of there. His release is the anti-Kaepernick release partly because its so compact. Secondly, I am not seeing the arm strength. Can he stand back there and drive an out pattern at NE or Buf or NY in December? I don't see it. I do see a really good backup, and I'd be happy if Miami drafted two qbs with this kid the back end part of the bargain. But I am talking 5th or 6th, not 4th.

He really didn't have to do it that often but when he did, he had good strength and was on the money. And the report from someone at his Pro Day specifically noted he threw with good power.

Mr. Magoo
03-31-2011, 10:21 PM
I saw that Mike Nolan was at the UNC pro day... he showed up in the background of some B roll. But I don't know who else was our organization was there. I've taken quite a liking to Johnny White after CK's video of him and would be interested to see if our RB coach was there.

ckparrothead
03-31-2011, 10:27 PM
Yeah I saw Nolan out there too. Hey if Robert Quinn falls to #15 the Dolphins have to really think about that. And Quan Sturdivant I think is prime candidate for an ILB position, very Crowder-like but makes bigger plays.

Dogbone34
03-31-2011, 11:30 PM
i like yates and team tar heel.

greg little, marvin austin, deunta williams, jonny white all have potential

even kendrick burney is a scrapper

justdev7
03-31-2011, 11:32 PM
Yeah I saw Nolan out there too. Hey if Robert Quinn falls to #15 the Dolphins have to really think about that. And Quan Sturdivant I think is prime candidate for an ILB position, very Crowder-like but makes bigger plays.

If we got Robert Quinn I would poop myself out of shock and joy. Imagine cam and Quinn across from each other.

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

Roonnette
03-31-2011, 11:44 PM
I'm not a fan of Quinn at OLB. I don't think him an upgrade over Misi, even as a pass rusher, and certainly not in space.

MadDog 88
04-01-2011, 12:36 AM
I am hoping the Dolphins draft Yates as the second of 2 QBs chosen on draft day. Landing Mallet or Ponder with Yates alone would be an excellent draft.

Roonnette
04-01-2011, 02:30 AM
Honestly I hope we've got a QB by then and I doubt we take two of them. But if we don't the Dolphins can dig part of their way out of my sh-t list by drafting Yates. :)

Why not Enderle?

justdev7
04-01-2011, 04:55 AM
Why not Enderle?

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. If so then that's pretty funny, if not.......... well yeah

RobertHorry
04-01-2011, 08:09 AM
The problem with Yates is that he has those "Henne Impulse throws".

He needs to get rid of those.

j-off-her-doll
04-01-2011, 08:45 AM
I'm not a fan of Quinn at OLB. I don't think him an upgrade over Misi, even as a pass rusher, and certainly not in space.

I like Misi. I think he plays his part well, and I think he'll only get better.

But, you're talking nonsense. As a pure pass rusher, I have Quinn as the 3rd best player in the draft - in a draft that's abnormally strong in that regard. Last year, he would have been the best pass rusher.

LouPhinFan
04-01-2011, 09:13 AM
You know CK, you could make this kid some money. If you've got Peter King retweeting the Draft Winds pieces, then you know there's probably plenty of FO types reading them as well. You could do a Draft Winds piece on TJ Yates...:hump:

ckparrothead
04-01-2011, 11:56 AM
Why not Enderle?

Just far too many bad decisions. I've got him as a 7th-UDFA guy, below Jeff Van Camp of FAU whom I have as a draftable 7th rounder.

ckparrothead
04-01-2011, 11:58 AM
The problem with Yates is that he has those "Henne Impulse throws".

He needs to get rid of those.

I'm not afraid of mistakes. I'm afraid of TOO MANY mistakes. But I'm also just as afraid of the unwillingness to make a mistake (ie. conservative throwing). A guy has to own the football field and play without fear to play in this league.

ckparrothead
04-01-2011, 12:00 PM
You know CK, you could make this kid some money. If you've got Peter King retweeting the Draft Winds pieces, then you know there's probably plenty of FO types reading them as well. You could do a Draft Winds piece on TJ Yates...:hump:

I could, and I would love to, but I don't think it will get re-tweeted by Peter King. Writing a good article is half about (or more than half about) figuring out what to write about. Richard wrote a fantastic piece on Christian Ponder but our Cam Newton and Ryan Mallett pieces got far more acclaim. Why? More enigmatic players.

greasyObnoxious
04-01-2011, 12:16 PM
I'm not a fan of Quinn at OLB. I don't think him an upgrade over Misi, even as a pass rusher, and certainly not in space.

if you put Quinn at OLB, it's not to use him in space. at least not a lot. he's at his best chasing the QB. a good DC will figure out his strength and use him accordingly.

hooshoops
04-01-2011, 12:48 PM
quinn can bend and dip as well as any pass rusher in this draft...i don't know how fluid he is in the hips though from a cod aspect or how comfortable he'd be in space...but as a pure pass rusher he'd put misi to shame...watching his pro day though he's looking more 4-3 end to me all the time

but don't sleep on this cat...may well be the best pass rusher to come out of this draft...dudes got some serious edge rush skills

if i was a 4-3 team looking for a pass rushing force at end i'd scoop robert quinn in a nanosecond...top 5 i'm not afraid...come on down big fella

LouPhinFan
04-01-2011, 01:00 PM
I could, and I would love to, but I don't think it will get re-tweeted by Peter King. Writing a good article is half about (or more than half about) figuring out what to write about. Richard wrote a fantastic piece on Christian Ponder but our Cam Newton and Ryan Mallett pieces got far more acclaim. Why? More enigmatic players.

I thinking not along the lines of King retweeting it, but that it would get read by someone in a front office somewhere. By King retweeting that article, people new to Draft Winds probably looked back at the previous articles and are anticipating the forth coming ones. This might also include scouting departments in several NFL front offices.

ckparrothead
04-01-2011, 02:55 PM
When it comes to the idea of a pass rusher at #15 I just find it difficult to screw with the current formula as it seems Mike Nolan is consistently a guy that likes to have one OLB be about an 80-85% rush guy and the other OLB be a half-n-half guy. Are guys like Aldon Smith and Robert Quinn really half-n-half guys? I don't think so. Nolan could switch the defense to where both guys rush but then that really stresses the defense elsewhere and it just might not be a good idea because honestly if you listen to guys like Greg Cosell who basically just locks himself up in the NFL Films vault and comes out once a year like a damn ground hog, the NFL is all about creatively finding ways to get pass rush with as few rushers as possible. If you have two OLBs in your 3-4 defense that are both full time rush guys, don't have a lot of versatility to their games, and so you're just rushing 5 men all the time...that can be a problem. And before you bring up the Pittsburgh duo keep in mind that both of those guys are about 60-65% rush guys, and I don't think you do that with a Robert Quinn or a Cam Wake.

So I just get paranoid about f-cking with the formula. There's a formula in place and it's working for us. Why f-ck with it? I can agree that adding some depth there would be pretty cool...but at #15? Not unless I'm planning on trading Cam Wake in for some really good compensation.

j-off-her-doll
04-01-2011, 03:16 PM
quinn can bend and dip as well as any pass rusher in this draft...i don't know how fluid he is in the hips though from a cod aspect or how comfortable he'd be in space...but as a pure pass rusher he'd put misi to shame...watching his pro day though he's looking more 4-3 end to me all the time

but don't sleep on this cat...may well be the best pass rusher to come out of this draft...dudes got some serious edge rush skills

if i was a 4-3 team looking for a pass rushing force at end i'd scoop robert quinn in a nanosecond...top 5 i'm not afraid...come on down big fella

As a 4-3 DE, I have Aldon Smith ahead of Quinn - assuming he returns to full health. If he doesn't, they're close enough that I give Quinn the edge.

j-off-her-doll
04-01-2011, 03:34 PM
When it comes to the idea of a pass rusher at #15 I just find it difficult to screw with the current formula as it seems Mike Nolan is consistently a guy that likes to have one OLB be about an 80-85% rush guy and the other OLB be a half-n-half guy. Are guys like Aldon Smith and Robert Quinn really half-n-half guys? I don't think so. Nolan could switch the defense to where both guys rush but then that really stresses the defense elsewhere and it just might not be a good idea because honestly if you listen to guys like Greg Cosell who basically just locks himself up in the NFL Films vault and comes out once a year like a damn ground hog, the NFL is all about creatively finding ways to get pass rush with as few rushers as possible. If you have two OLBs in your 3-4 defense that are both full time rush guys, don't have a lot of versatility to their games, and so you're just rushing 5 men all the time...that can be a problem. And before you bring up the Pittsburgh duo keep in mind that both of those guys are about 60-65% rush guys, and I don't think you do that with a Robert Quinn or a Cam Wake.

So I just get paranoid about f-cking with the formula. There's a formula in place and it's working for us. Why f-ck with it? I can agree that adding some depth there would be pretty cool...but at #15? Not unless I'm planning on trading Cam Wake in for some really good compensation.

I really agree with the general thought process hear. It seemed - though, and I don't have the stats to back this up - that we went to 4-down sets very often on passing situations (not only on 3rd down). With Odrick returning, I feel better about the idea of getting to the QB with Wake, Starks, Odrick, and Misi, but against a team like New England, where I feel we're in 4-down a lot (again, wish I had the stats to back this up), I can see that other edge rusher being worth a premium pick. The combination of those scenarios, spelling Wake, and having someone to groom behind Wake make it more enticing for me. But, at the end of the day, we NEED a QB. I'd only be happy with Quinn or Smith (I've almost posted two write ups on my man-crush for Smith) if it were just clear that they didn't like this QB crop - which doesn't seem the case.

ckparrothead
04-01-2011, 04:36 PM
Here's the problem with that. There aren't that high a percentage of downs when you need to put four down and just rush the hell out of a passer to where you're not all that concerned about other things. If I had to estimate I'd say maybe 20-30% of the time. If you're getting a Robert Quinn at #15, salivating over the idea of those two rushing the passer together, keep that in mind, we're talking like 20-30% of the time when they'd be the deadly pair.

The rest of the time (70-80%) you have to worry about what WEAKNESSES you're creating, when you put the two on the field together. If you're going four-down fronts on those downs with Wake and Quinn as your bookends, I think you're creating a hell of a weakness to the run game. You'd better be damn sure your defensive tackles, linebackers and strong safety are up to the task of covering for that weakness. And if your strong safety has to be involved you have to be damn sure your corners are up to the task of playing on an island all day. If you're going with your base attack more (the 3-4), then that's where the concern I already brought up comes into play...you have two guys that need to be rushing WAY more often than dropping, in order to be using them to their best...and so that means you have to be rushing 5 all the time from your base defense. And if you want to blitz your ILBs any significant amount in order to give the OL something to think about, you're rushing 6 players. Or you're just not rushing the ILBs. That becomes the Pasqualoni defense all over again...and I don't think you want that. I know Mike Nolan doesn't. He wants variation. He wants guessing. He wants to get as much rush as he can while dropping as many people back into coverage as he can.

This is a passing league and huge holes in the coverage net are easier to exploit given the state of the league and the way it's changing, than pressuring the QB with 5 or 6 players. It has its place, but it's very situational, needs to be creative (and you can't be creative if you have a bunch of "this guy has to line up over here and rush rather than drop to be effective" guys).

I'm against it.

j-off-her-doll
04-01-2011, 07:02 PM
I'm completely against the idea of having a Jason Taylor/Joey Porter situation. I agree with your defensive philosophy.

If your % evaluation is correct, I also agree that it's difficult to justify spending the 15th pick on an additional outside pass rusher. That said, I do think it'd serve us well to have someone to spell Wake. When you factor in the plays he needs off with the plays that an Aldon Smith or Robert Quinn would come in against teams like Green Bay or New England - or the importance of those plays against teams like Pittsburgh - I think you can begin to justify the selection. Aldon Smith especially gives you a lot of diversity as a pass rusher. The '09 Aldon Smith applies some of the quickest pressure I've seen from a prospect. He had a half sack more than Quinn that year, but I'd make a strong guess that he had more QB pressures and QB hits. On many occasions, I saw Smith apply immediate pressure on numerous occasions, where a WR would also break open and Smith would come just short of a sack. Smith also gives you versatility to rush from inside (as, now, numerous sites have noted). Those hands are devastating, and I like the way he tests an O-lineman's balance and lateral quickness on almost every play (being Tackle or Guard), and he bats a lot of balls down at the line of scrimmage. It's not just his length, either. He has a knack for closing the play - whether it's making a relatively difficult tackle in the backfield or timing his jump at the LOS. I just realized it, but I'd compare him a lot to a young Jason Taylor - but with more powerful hands, better inside rush moves, and the ability to add more weight.

End of the day, we need a QB, and the 1st pick should be spent on a QB - one way or another (as you've mentioned in the past). But, if it were between an O-lineman, a healthy Mark Ingram (doesn't seem to be the case), a Hankerson (or even a J. Jones), and A. Smith (or maybe R. Quinn)? I feel best about Smith.

Skree
04-01-2011, 08:14 PM
A guy has to own the football field and play without fear to play at an elite level in this league.Fix'd ? :)

The more I see of Mally the more I can see that, his fakes and just the way he handles the ball and himself.

On TJ Yates: I'm liking him as a 4th-5th IF we haven't covered QB by then. There was 1 thing missing, for me, in the closing interview on either yesterdays Path To the Draft or Inside the NFL (I forget which) with Yates head coach about the UNC pro day.

They gave the coach basically an open mike and a national platform to say whatever he wanted about any player on his team not named Quinn or Austin. He has a 4 year starting QB that he groomed in a pro style offense and he says basically nothing about him. No idea why, was just very odd to me.

Davis is a former NFL coach and what I'm left with is, what is he saying to NFL teams about Yates ? I would think if he was touting/pushing him TJ wouldn't be so "under the radar".

I'm with you on Yates going for it. I like the aggression and confidence. Discretion can and will need to be honed, like any other collage QB to 1 extent or another.

j-off-her-doll
04-01-2011, 08:30 PM
Fix'd ? :)

The more I see of Mally the more I can see that, his fakes and just the way he handles the ball and himself.

On TJ Yates: I'm liking him as a 4th-5th IF we haven't covered QB by then. There was 1 thing missing, for me, in the closing interview on either yesterdays Path To the Draft or Inside the NFL (I forget which) with Yates head coach about the UNC pro day.

They gave the coach basically an open mike and a national platform to say whatever he wanted about any player on his team not named Quinn or Austin. He has a 4 year starting QB that he groomed in a pro style offense and he says basically nothing about him. No idea why, was just very odd to me.

Davis is a former NFL coach and what I'm left with is, what is he saying to NFL teams about Yates ? I would think if he was touting/pushing him TJ wouldn't be so "under the radar".

I'm with you on Yates going for it. I like the aggression and confidence. Discretion can and will need to be honed, like any other collage QB to 1 extent or another.

His initial statement is accurate. It's a prerequisite to stay in the league - especially as a starter.

Skree
04-01-2011, 09:44 PM
I would argue that a good case could be made of some starters playing scared. Esp if they get the crap beat out of them as rookie starters for teams with bad olines or bad oline injuries (whatever) for the 1st couple years.

Thinking "happy feet" syndrome here.

Dolphin39
04-01-2011, 09:56 PM
I'm not afraid of mistakes. I'm afraid of TOO MANY mistakes. But I'm also just as afraid of the unwillingness to make a mistake (ie. conservative throwing). A guy has to own the football field and play without fear to play in this league.

Yep, just ask Brett Farve. He had a pretty good career taking chances.

DefensiveEnd76
04-01-2011, 10:07 PM
Evidently for whatever reason he was asked to throw 112 passes at his Pro Day...and he completed 110 of them.

You guys know me, you know I like Yates a lot. I consider him a guy that could absolutely become a franchise starter in the NFL.

I've been doing a lot of work on QBs and part of it is comparative work, putting clips up of similar throws from different players, which sort of highlights in your mind the difference between the players.

I have to say, Yates' footwork is FREAK-ISH. I mean downright FREAK quality.

What I found when I did my studies of QB releases was that if you measure the release from the lead-foot up, and then from the throwing elbow up, you obviously get different time readings. One is the full motion and the other is just the arm motion only.

Across the board, I found that guys with weaker arms tended to have more discrepancy between foot-up and elbow-up release times. In other words, Ryan Mallett's motion from lead foot-up would be something like 49 milliseconds, but his motion from drop elbow-up would be 43 milliseconds. But Andy Dalton, who has a much weaker arm, would be lead foot-up at 56 milliseconds (forget the exact numbers), and arm-up would be 41 milliseconds. The disparity between those (6 milliseconds and 15 milliseconds, respectively), would roughly correlate with strong-armed guys and weak-armed guys.

This is intuitive! I measured intermediate pocket passes with pocket rhythm. Guys with naturally weaker arms need their feet more to get the torque to drive the football, and it would only follow that would increase the time from when they start up with their lead foot and then start up their arm motion.

The exception? T.J. Yates. I don't think people accuse this guy of having a big arm, although sometimes you have to wonder when you see him throw the ball 55 or 60 yards thru the air with perfect ball placement on a vertical while on the run. But Yates had the SMALLEST discrepancy between foot-up and arm-up motions....of any QB I measured. His feet just move that fast and his weight transferrance is that efficient. He can shuffle and reset his feet inside the pocket, and then throw the ball like boxer punch, quicker than any player in this draft.

And he's ACCURATE. He's accurate short, and he's accurate deep. The problem is, in his ultra-conservative offense, you didn't see him throw a bunch of those intermediate sized 25 to 35 yard throws (thru the air, as the crow flies). You have to put together reams of tape to isolate enough of those throws to get a good sense for his accuracy. Luckily, nobody's ever accused me of being lazy, when it comes to Draft stuff. I've found that on those throws he has what I consider requisite accuracy, which is about 80 percent hitting the WR's hands.

And did I mention, he probably has THE most accurate deep ball in the Draft? Even more accurate than Newton or Mallett. When he played basketball, he was a star 3-point shooter. It shows in his deep ball as he drops that ball right in the bucket with great placement, timing and arc. I don't know why Chad Reuter seems on a crusade against high-arc deep balls. From what I've heard, especially from Sean Smith, quarterbacks are more prone to high-arc on their deep balls in the NFL, and hitting the outside shoulder, than in college.

He's a little over-aggressive, as TedSlimmJr has come to say, "The REAL T.J. Yates" shows up every now and then. He's referring to how in 2009 and prior, Yates did throw some interceptions.

He's an excellent game manager. That's not a bad thing. That's a good thing. He manages the clock. He manages situations. I don't know if there's a quarterback in this Draft that I would take over him if I had less than 2 minutes remaining with no timeouts and I needed to drive 50 or 60 yards to either get a touchdown or field goal to prevent losing the game. That's saying a LOT.

His dedication to the details is PHENOMENAL. Many times I mentioned in my initial scouting reports the name "Peyton Manning"...and as I did background on him, I found that he grew up and still is a diehard Colts fan, and has attended Manning Camp three consecutive years. What was he in charge of teaching the kids at Manning Camp? What else? THE DEEP BALL.

But you're talking a four year starter that has been thru ALL the ups and downs, kept fighting, fought thru adversity, all the hate mail, etc...and got BETTER. A guy that is accurate short, accurate intermediate and REAL accurate deep, a guy that is naturally aggressive but was harnessed by a conservative offense, a guy with FREAK footwork, the quickest release in the Draft, a dedication to the smallest of details, extremely hard worker, a leader, great game, situation and time manager...and this guy is so under the radar it's sickening.

Yeah, I've put Ponder above him. That hasn't always been the case. I do think physically Christian's top line is just higher as he's got more athletic ability and experience throwing the intermediate ball more often. You don't know if Yates is going to be a risky thrower again when he has to throw more aggressively again. That's the danger.

But I see Yates as like another Trent Green, similar footwork, similar effective deep ball.

It doesn't seem like many scouts agree with you.

Roman529
04-01-2011, 11:37 PM
Honestly I hope we've got a QB by then and I doubt we take two of them. But if we don't the Dolphins can dig part of their way out of my sh-t list by drafting Yates. :)

With Pennington tearing his ACL we could possibly be bringing in a couple of QB's through the draft, depending on who is available. I think Gabbert, Newton, and Mallett go in Round One. I think Ponder likely goes in Round Two, along with Locker, Dalton, and Kaepernick. I think Yates will be there in Round Three. Stanzi, McElroy and Enderle are probably 4th rounders or later and I probably wouldn't look at anyone else at QB this draft. Nice review of Yates. I never seen him in a game, just on film, but it looks like he throws a nice accurate pass.

ckparrothead
04-02-2011, 02:00 AM
Fix'd ? :)

The more I see of Mally the more I can see that, his fakes and just the way he handles the ball and himself.

On TJ Yates: I'm liking him as a 4th-5th IF we haven't covered QB by then. There was 1 thing missing, for me, in the closing interview on either yesterdays Path To the Draft or Inside the NFL (I forget which) with Yates head coach about the UNC pro day.

They gave the coach basically an open mike and a national platform to say whatever he wanted about any player on his team not named Quinn or Austin. He has a 4 year starting QB that he groomed in a pro style offense and he says basically nothing about him. No idea why, was just very odd to me.

Davis is a former NFL coach and what I'm left with is, what is he saying to NFL teams about Yates ? I would think if he was touting/pushing him TJ wouldn't be so "under the radar".

I'm with you on Yates going for it. I like the aggression and confidence. Discretion can and will need to be honed, like any other collage QB to 1 extent or another.

Honestly that's just not the feel I got from his interview. What I got from it is, he was asked to compare T.J. Yates to Christian Ponder, who is basically a 1st round pick in this Draft, and he said that Ponder is definitely a little more athletic, but that T.J. Yates is smarter and more pro-ready.

D-bolt
04-04-2011, 08:18 AM
Honestly that's just not the feel I got from his interview. What I got from it is, he was asked to compare T.J. Yates to Christian Ponder, who is basically a 1st round pick in this Draft, and he said that Ponder is definitely a little more athletic, but that T.J. Yates is smarter and more pro-ready.

Yates, to me, does more of the little things that seperate NFL success from failure. No one in this draft carries out the PA fake better than him. Actually I think very few in the NFL carry it out better than him. This is very important in the NFL as it can cause that little extra space between the LB"S and safety's. It also can open up the throwing Lanes behind the safties. His feet are quick in the pocket and he knows how to manipulate the pocket to buy sometime. He throws nicely on the move including going deep. He also seems, atleast this past year, very calm and poised when the game is place in his hands for the winning drive. He keeps his wit's about him better than his own coaches do. He does seem to remind me of a young Brady(pre-Moss)when he was his most effective. If we don't get Mallet in the first I don't see any other QB that I'd want to draft, perhaps Stanzi, but I'm just not sold on him yet!

RobertHorry
04-04-2011, 08:49 AM
I'm not afraid of mistakes. I'm afraid of TOO MANY mistakes. But I'm also just as afraid of the unwillingness to make a mistake (ie. conservative throwing). A guy has to own the football field and play without fear to play in this league.

Which is what Henne became.

He made conservative mistakes, unlike in 09 when it was mostly aggressive mistakes. That was the worst part about last year.

He can own the field with him arm, but a giant vagina took over for upstairs for him somehow.

ckparrothead
04-04-2011, 10:50 AM
He's so conservative by nature that he has to force aggressiveness into his game, and I think the coaches tried to force it into his thoughts with play-action passes which were generally more aggressive. He didn't react well to this.

ckparrothead
04-04-2011, 10:53 AM
The big problem with Yates I think is that quarterbacks like him have come and gone thru the NFL. These are guys that are super short oriented until they throw the deep ball. It's either super short or super long, and NFL defenses can defend that. They can squeeze it.

I just can't help but wonder, with his footwork being what it is, with his super-short work being as good as it is, and his super-long work being as good as it is...can he overcome that and threaten at all levels enough to be effective? The easy answer would be no, and that when he does start trying to do that, the interceptions that marred his career up until 2010 will return. Maybe they will, but maybe they won't.

hooshoops
04-04-2011, 11:15 AM
mayock says yates ceiling is solid career backup...

Roonnette
04-04-2011, 12:31 PM
Yates, to me, does more of the little things that seperate NFL success from failure.

I go back to Holmgren and Henning when evaluating QBs.

1. Holmgren is looking for "inate ability to deliver the ball." In other words, a natural passer. There is no one more natural in this draft than Mallett.

2. Henning said it best: With QBs it's a balance sheet between assets and liabilities. In other words, you can throw ints or make bad decisions, but you have to make up for those with big plays. It's a balance sheet between TDs, yards, and turnovers. Yes, mallett throws ints, but he makes big plays.

Others, like Yates don't make big plays.

ckparrothead
12-04-2011, 03:26 PM
Bump. Doing pretty well today versus the Falcons. Winning 10-3 on 10 of 17 for 154 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs passing. First career start and he's only a rookie.

Dogbone34
12-04-2011, 03:33 PM
yates or mallet should have been in miami this year

finomenal
12-04-2011, 05:53 PM
yates or mallet should have been in miami this year

No, because RB is a much more important position to draft than QB. Just forget about the fact that late round and undrafted running backs make an impact also and draft one in the SECOND ROUND instead. :rolleyes2: This organization is so frustrating.

Valandui
12-04-2011, 06:33 PM
No, because RB is a much more important position to draft than QB. Just forget about the fact that late round and undrafted running backs make an impact also and draft one in the SECOND ROUND instead. :rolleyes2: This organization is so frustrating.
Not to mention trade up into the second round.

Phinatic8u
12-04-2011, 07:33 PM
:lol:

Bump a thread when a QB plays well against a average pass d. God.

Tunaphish429
12-04-2011, 07:34 PM
Gotta give credit to yates ...he just beat the second coming of manning/brady...

ckparrothead
12-04-2011, 07:35 PM
:lol:

Bump a thread when a QB plays well against a average pass d. God.

Bump a thread when a ROOKIE plays well and wins his first start against a winning playoff team, especially when that thread involves you talking about the guy in December of 2010, approximately 4 months before anyone in the mainstream even considered him draftable.

Hayden Fox
12-04-2011, 10:05 PM
Bump a thread when a ROOKIE plays well and wins his first start against a winning playoff team, especially when that thread involves you talking about the guy in December of 2010, approximately 4 months before anyone in the mainstream even considered him draftable.

Maybe you will be right again with Weeden?

Phinatic8u
12-04-2011, 10:50 PM
Bump a thread when a ROOKIE plays well and wins his first start against a winning playoff team, especially when that thread involves you talking about the guy in December of 2010, approximately 4 months before anyone in the mainstream even considered him draftable.

Yeah I know why you did. But I was expecting one of those great informative CK posts about Yates, not some lame bump, your slippin Ck :lol:

ckparrothead
12-05-2011, 12:01 AM
Maybe you will be right again with Weeden?

I wouldn't say I was RIGHT about T.J. Yates. I'm not making that call yet. That's kind of ridiculous after 1 game. I'm just patting myself on the back for having been onto something about 4 months before anyone else was.

---------- Post added at 11:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 PM ----------


Yeah I know why you did. But I was expecting one of those great informative CK posts about Yates, not some lame bump, your slippin Ck :lol:

There's not much to say about him. All we can do is sit and wait and see if he's as good as I thought he could be.

Valandui
12-05-2011, 01:08 AM
What if he does take them the Super Bowl? Is it Tom Brady part two? Do they deal Schaub? (Just playing Devil's advocate here.)

hooshoops
12-05-2011, 01:31 AM
Bump a thread when a ROOKIE plays well and wins his first start against a winning playoff team, especially when that thread involves you talking about the guy in December of 2010, approximately 4 months before anyone in the mainstream even considered him draftable.

true....i think it deserves a bump...so far

ckparrothead
12-05-2011, 01:31 AM
What if he does take them the Super Bowl? Is it Tom Brady part two? Do they deal Schaub? (Just playing Devil's advocate here.)

Interesting question you pose here.

I mean, in it's own way it's kind of a ridiculous question, no offense...I mean we're talking about a rookie 5th round pick or whatever...but still he's the QB for the rest of the season and they're definitely tracking for the playoffs and if they do get to and through the playoffs then there's a serious question here.

Matt Schaub in his years with the Texans has gotten hurt a lot. That's the thing about him. He only played 11 games in 2007, 11 games in 2008 and now he's played only 10 games in 2011. He managed all 16 games in 2009 and 2010. Without sounding like I'm being just absolutely ridiculously over-optimistic about T.J. Yates...let's say that he does keep leading them to victories and after a few games those victories start to be a little more impressive than 17-10 and 20-13. Let's suppose he even wins them a playoff game or two, maybe go to the AFC Championship. Then you do have yourself a genuine dilemma. The chances are supremely low of this occurring but still...I suppose it's worth mentioning.

Matt Schaub is 30 years old. I'd take him, injury history and all.

hooshoops
12-05-2011, 01:34 AM
lol...you guys are getting ahead of yourselves...orlovsky threw for 350 today also...something tells me the colts aren't trading peyton and trading the luck pick to go with him...for one game its fair to say yates gave the texans a solid start...not special but damn solid for a 1st game starting rook

Valandui
12-05-2011, 01:53 AM
lol...you guys are getting ahead of yourselves...orlovsky threw for 350 today also...something tells me the colts aren't trading peyton and trading the luck pick to go with him...for one game its fair to say yates gave the texans a solid start...not special but damn solid for a 1st game starting rook
I'm really just more bored tonight. Dude didn't look like a rookie out there today, though.

ckparrothead
12-05-2011, 02:22 AM
lol...you guys are getting ahead of yourselves...orlovsky threw for 350 today also...something tells me the colts aren't trading peyton and trading the luck pick to go with him...for one game its fair to say yates gave the texans a solid start...not special but damn solid for a 1st game starting rook

I already said it's an extremely low odds outcome. But the reason it's even possible at all is because Matt Schaub just can't stay healthy. Hell, when Yates took over and the Texans gave him the start this week, the very first words out of Gary Kubiak's mouth were using Tom Brady and Kurt Warner as examples of guys who got their shot and ran with it. So even Kubiak already has it in the back of his mind that Matt Schaub could go the way of Drew Bledsoe/Trent Green.

ckparrothead
12-05-2011, 03:51 AM
I'm really just more bored tonight. Dude didn't look like a rookie out there today, though.

That's exactly right. I'm watching his game now, and I'm very impressed. He got jobbed out there a little bit today.

Generally a lot of his incomplete passes, he put right in a spot for the receiver to catch the ball, but sometimes they just didn't come up with it.

Right away on 3rd & 10 he's throwing the deep 15 yard out to Andre Johnson with good outside placement and a nice tight spiral. This is a 35 yard throw. Ball is a little high but catchable especially for someone like Andrew and he just doesn't come down with it. He had a pass batted at the line of scrimmage. He throws a nice 30 yard ball on an out with some juice on it, right where the WR was going to get it or nobody was, but the coverage was real tight and the receiver couldn't come up with it. He rolls out to his right and belts out a really impressive 37 yard ball on the run that goes right into Andre Johnson's hands and he drops it. Has another ball batted down, this one a WR screen pass, not much he could do there. On a 1st & 10 with 14:20 remaining in the 4th quarter, after his big scare with the Mike Peterson would-be INT, he throws a nice dart up the field to Jacoby Jones, a little low and to the side but catchable and dropped. The ball placement may have been a function of Jacoby not running his route right, now as I look at it, still catchable though.

On one of the weirdest plays I've ever seen he had his arm hit as he threw but the ball clearly was thrown forward by him about 7 yards, but the officials never blew it dead and James Sanders ran it back for a touchdown while literally every other player from both team started trotting off the field while the special teams units trotted on. Both teams got called for illegal substitutions for trotting players on during a live play, which turned into offsetting spot fouls, which nullified the touchdown but still upheld the fumble and recovery by Atlanta. The replay officials upheld the ruling of a fumble. They had Mike Pereira on to give his comments and he was basically in no uncertain terms saying I have no idea what they saw because to me Yates clearly had control of the ball and began moving it forward before it got jarred loose and that's an incomplete pass.

Took a couple of sacks. With 1:53 let in the half he takes a sack because he just didn't feel the linebacker coming in off a delayed blitz. Tough play, really well designed and executed delay blitz, got all the OLs to commit to the 5 other guys that were rushing on the play and it was tough for a T.J. Yates with his eyes down the field to recognize that the Mike was coming in off the green dog blitz. At about 13:41 to go in the 3rd he executes a play-action and gets his head and eyes around up the field but the problem is Eric Winston has been beaten quite ridiculously by John Abraham who smacks Yates pretty much the moment he gets his head around. I don't blame Yates for that at all and actually look at it as a positive that he held onto the ball, because that was a HARD hit and it was too early to be legitimately expected. I thought Moose brought up a good point that if you're the running back executing that play fake you have to know not to meet the QB at the mesh point and to make sure Abraham doesn't get to Yates that quickly. Ricky often cheated on his play fakes so that he could get right into his blocking assignments. This wasn't a sack but on the game-winning touchdown drive he's rolling to his right and the option he probably wanted got mauled in the backfield, the other two deeper options were WELL covered, and he did the right thing pulled the ball in and ran as hard as he could 2 yards on 2nd & 5 setting up a doable 3rd & 3.

I really counted 6 misses. On 1st & 10 with 10:37 to go in the 1st, he's throwing the skinny post and he just gets too much air under it, goes over Andre's head. Right at the 2 minute mark before the half he's dropping back and has pressure right in his grill right away, throws off balance to the back in the flat and just shoots it over his head. I'm not sure if he was trying to throw it away or not but I don't think he was I think he just sailed it in a panic. They get the ball back and he's throwing a pass on 1st & 10 with 44 seconds left, and really Sean Weatherspoon cheats on his zone assignment and begins looking toward where Yates wanted to go over the short middle, breaks up the pass. Yates should have seen him, but at the same time the reason Weatherspoon didn't come up with that ball was because of the quickness of Yates' release and how quick he gets the ball out. Any slower than Yates' abnormally quick trigger, and that's probably picked off. On a 3rd & 7 he's trying to hit his inside receiver on a little jerk route and I don't think he liked the coverage, you could see him hesitate as he went to throw it, and so he turfed it at the receiver's feet. You'd like him to maybe extend the play a little and/or find a different option. On the play Andre Johnson got hurt, this is a play-action roll to the left which is why I keep harping on how Barkley can throw while rolling left and right. When you can roll either way it gives defenses something else to think about. He gathers himself and releases a deep ball but it's kind of a full 60 yard moonshot and it looks like multiple defenders in the area chasing it down with Andre nowhere in sight because he pulled up lame during the throw. What's interesting about this throw is how deep it is and how none of the defenders could get to it. I'm going to go ahead and guess that when T.J. pulled around to throw it he saw defenders and he purposely overthrew it so that either Andre Johnson was going to speed to the thing and make a ridiculous play, or nobody was going to get to it. So it was actually a safe throw than it looks at first. During the ball flight Andre crumples to the ground and Sanders keeps chasing it and realistically with the ball placement if Andre had kept running then it would have been an even situation between Sanders and Andre on who would have gotten it. Dominique Franks and Dunta Robinson weren't quite in position to get to the ball.

The biggest mistake by far came on 2nd & 12 with about 14:30 remaining in the 4th quarter. He throws a pick to Mike Peterson who brings it back to the house, but the play is called back on a defensive hold on the other side of the field. The good news for Yates is that the hold was on the guy he wanted. He read the middle then progressed over to his left receiver Walter working against Dunta Robinson. Robinson was in the middle of mugging the guy about 8-9 yards past the line of scrimmage so that's when Yates flips his had back to his right to try and hit his leak option, covered by Mike Peterson. He just misses, throws the ball too far inside, needed to lead him outside more. Peterson intercepts it but the play is nullified.

But what was great was, on that very same drive, Yates didn't let the play rattle him and that ended up being the drive where they scored the game-winning touchdown in the 4th quarter.

He had some nice throws and plays during the game. He had a 20 yard pass to Andre Johnson on the dig which was a great throw even though I think at first glance some people would think it was high and Andre did a good job going up for it, but what you'd have to see on the replay is that there was a linebacker directly in the passing lane and Yates had to clear that linebacker in order to get it to Andre, so it was a good touch throw that came out a little high out of necessity but still very catchable and hence it was caught. Then there's that roll-out in the 1st quarter I mentioned that goes right into Andre's bread basket and dropped. He executed a nice screen with great timing (was a good screen executor at UNC) on 3rd & 12 and it converts and gains 28 yards. Very next play is the deep 50 yard pass to Andre that is on all the highlight reels. He gets his foot stepped on by the Center but recovers, executes the play-action, rolls to his right, gets his shoulders square and releases a ball that goes about 47 yards through the air...I do remember referring to him as the most accurate deep ball thrower in that 2011 Draft...perfect placement for Andre to go get it. He caps off the drive with the 3 yard touchdown to Dreessen. You know what I love about that? I kept talking about his quick release and his execution, how quick he sees things and throws decisively. This is a ball he released as he was backing up because he had what he wanted and wanted to get that ball out as quick as possible. Good for a touchdown. He had another super impressive play where he felt the pressure, worked the pocket and releases a ball while scrambling good for a nice little 9 yard gain, very impressive. And on the next down he's got a guy right in his face off the roll and he gives that same little move Matt Barkley did against Notre Dame on the roll, faking a guy out of his shorts...but fake or not he still had more people chasing him and nobody open so he throws it away, lives to fight another day. First pass of the second half, play-action mechanically sound (actually perfect) and he throws a nice dart up the middle to Andre Johnson for 22 yards. At about 1:27 left in the 3rd quarter on 2nd & 15 he throws a nice well placed out route to Jacoby Jones that would have gained 9 yards but right at the catch point the DB interfered and was flagged for it. On 3rd & 9 in the red zone on the game-winning touchdown drive he had a really nice scramble where I would swear he gained all 9 of the necessary yards but the refs said he was down just shy of the sticks, which set up an easy 4th & inches conversion with Foster who ended up with the touchdown.

What kind of sucked about the play calling is they were obviously trying to call things a little conservatively at times and so what would happen is they'd run on 1st and 2nd down, not gain much, and then Yates doesn't get the chance to throw until it's 3rd & 10, 3rd & 9, 3rd & 12. A few times he had 3rd & 4 or 3rd & 5 and he converted those.

I thought it was a good overall day.

Kistner10
12-05-2011, 05:27 AM
Yates was ok. Not discrediting you CK, but do you guys really think he looked good or did he just look good for a rookie 5th rounder?? If Gabbert switched places with him would anyone annoit him an up and comer?

I think Yates looks like a great backup. They really protected him with their run game and their defense was great again. I'm not trying to rain on your parade CK, you deserve a lot of credit for finding a late round prospect who didn't lose the football game for Houston today, but I didn't see anything really that showed me that he's a future NFL starter. The great thing is that we'll get to see the chance if he can become a good QB. I would like to see Houston finally make the playoffs so I'm definately rooting for the guy.

ckparrothead
12-05-2011, 10:45 AM
Actually I think that his performance was far better than Blaine Gabbert's because he came up with more valid plans for attacking the defense before the snap and more importantly, he handled pressure MUCH better. He kept his eyes up the field while handling pressure which is something Gabbert is not doing. He didn't feel phantom pressure.

One thing I enjoyed about watching Yates' performance, which honestly was BETTER than I thought it would have been...was that in many ways this was vintage T.J. Yates. Right down to the bad mistake which nearly cost the team. I mean, I can break it down to individual plays and just show, he made this read in college a bunch, he made this throw in college a bunch, this kind of mistake popped up in college every once in a while, etc. That touchdown to Dreessen? Vintage Yates. He chucks the ball out with freakish quickness while still dropping, because he read the pre-snap alignments and knew that if he could get the ball out fast enough the defense couldn't prevent Dreessen from barely scraping the ball into the end zone. I've seen that in college, especially the freakish quick delivery. I've also seen that critical mistake he made where he went to check it down, underestimated Mike Peterson's coverage on his leak option, and threw a bad ball. The perfect deep ball he dropped right in the bucket to Andre Johnson for a 50 yard gain? Seen that in college, too. He's a former star 3 point shooter in basketball and in college I dubbed him the most accurate deep ball thrower in that Draft, and not without reason. The perfect mechanics, dedication to every little detail...you could see all of that in college.

But then, there were things he did in that game that were NOT T.J. Yates, too...and that was even more fun to watch. Rolling right at a dead run and throwing the ball 37 yards right into Andre Johnson's hands in tight man coverage...I didn't see THAT much in college, that's for sure. Throwing the ball 30 to 35 yards with a tight, clean spiral into tight windows in man coverage on the deep out...I didn't see that much in college either. I knew he could do those things because I'd seen other things that translated, but he wasn't asked to in John Shoop's offense. And most pleasantly, his handling of pressure and show of mobility in the game was literally the best I've ever seen out of him. This is a credit to his teachers at the NFL level, but it also shows that the trajectory I noticed with him getting actively better at dealing with pressure in the pocket as he got more experience, has held up. He's still on an upward path as far as that is concerned. He also threw a cleaner, more consistent ball, with better spin...which is something you often see when guys get into the NFL and coaches get a lot of repetitions in them, coach them better.

If I'm bullish on him based on this performance it's because instead of seeing a guy that is worse than he was in college, which you see with Blaine Gabbert and some other guys, I see a guy that's actually made improvements versus what he did in college. He was a guy that improved each year in college and so it looks like he's continued to improve. Is he Tom Brady or something like that? No. But if he plays against the rest of the teams the way he played against the Falcons, they're going to keep winning games IMO.

MadDog 88
12-07-2011, 04:19 PM
While watching Yates against the Falcons I couldn't help but think about the reviews you gave him CK. He definitely had a nice start to his career.

ckparrothead
12-11-2011, 05:36 PM
What a day Yates just had. Already looks like the second most impressive rookie QB after Cam Newton. Down 6 points, with 2:30 remaining, ball on your own 20 yard line, NO TIMEOUTS, and you execute a long TD drive to win the game? Are you kidding me?

And that drive was all T.J. Yates, too. It wasn't like someone else busted out with a big play that did all the work for him.

Fantastic. Texans may trade Schaub this off season.

Chubby
12-11-2011, 09:08 PM
I would still like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that most of you were wrong about Newton.
Ty
Chubbs

ckparrothead
12-11-2011, 09:17 PM
I would still like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that most of you were wrong about Newton.
Ty
Chubbs

I definitely was, until I got the chance to really dive into his game tape. The only reason I ever could have legitimately been lukewarm on him would simply have been lack of exposure.

Chubby
12-11-2011, 09:18 PM
I definitely was, until I got the chance to really dive into his game tape. The only reason I ever could have legitimately been lukewarm on him would simply have been lack of exposure.

You have been on that Newton train as long as I have. :)
Chubbs

D-bolt
12-11-2011, 09:35 PM
CK,
I was right there with you on Yates last year and I'm happy seeing this guy do well and will always be a big fan of his. What none of the experts never mention about him is how he dismantled an LSU team with Peterson, Claiborne, and Mathieu at DB. I don't know of many pro QB's who would attack that D with the limited weapons around them like TJ had that game. By the way I'm interested in seeing your right up on Cousins after watching film. I see someone who reminds me a little of Hasselback. Matt....not Tim

b0ng
12-12-2011, 03:46 AM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2011/12/8vCKM-1.jpg

Kistner10
12-12-2011, 05:43 AM
What a day Yates just had. Already looks like the second most impressive rookie QB after Cam Newton. Down 6 points, with 2:30 remaining, ball on your own 20 yard line, NO TIMEOUTS, and you execute a long TD drive to win the game? Are you kidding me?

And that drive was all T.J. Yates, too. It wasn't like someone else busted out with a big play that did all the work for him.

Fantastic. Texans may trade Schaub this off season.

Andy Dalton??

Pinkboy
12-12-2011, 07:39 AM
Glad to see Yates doing well so early in his career. He looks the part and the most impressive thing is he looks so comfortable back there.

Here's the NFL.com excerpt on the video for that drive: CINCINNATI -- Rookie quarterback TJ Yates led the biggest drive in Houston Texans history Sunday, throwing a 6-yard touchdown pass with two seconds left for a 20-19 victory over the Bengals.

"Yates Nothing short of Amazing"

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011121103/2011/REG14/texans@bengals#menu=highlights&tab=recap

C (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011121103/2011/REG14/texans@bengals#menu=highlights&tab=recap)lick on "Yates orchestrates game-winning 80-yard drive" in the video box to see the whole drive again

ckparrothead
12-12-2011, 10:38 AM
Andy Dalton??

Well, he pretty much out-dueled Andy Dalton in this game. Keep in mind the Texans didn't have Andre Johnson in this game, but Andy Dalton continued to benefit from the presence of A.J. Green, who is ridiculous.

spiketex
12-12-2011, 10:38 AM
CK clearly highlighted Yates as the value QB in the draft. Unfortunately, he again confirmed that he knows more than the so-called experts who are on the payroll. The Miami Dolphins need to recruit CKparrothead!

ckparrothead
12-12-2011, 10:41 AM
Glad to see Yates doing well so early in his career. He looks the part and the most impressive thing is he looks so comfortable back there.

Here's the NFL.com excerpt on the video for that drive: CINCINNATI -- Rookie quarterback TJ Yates led the biggest drive in Houston Texans history Sunday, throwing a 6-yard touchdown pass with two seconds left for a 20-19 victory over the Bengals.

"Yates Nothing short of Amazing"

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011121103/2011/REG14/texans@bengals#menu=highlights&tab=recap

C (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011121103/2011/REG14/texans@bengals#menu=highlights&tab=recap)lick on "Yates orchestrates game-winning 80-yard drive" in the video box to see the whole drive again

It's a drive worth seeing. He didn't do everything 100% right, at one point as I recall he took a sack and he needed to get that ball out...but it was SO reminiscent of that LSU drive to end the game where they only came up short because Zach Pianalto dropped two consecutive passes in the end zone.

I kept thinking about that during the game as I saw him battling from behind by 9 points. I kept thinking if they get this to a one score game and they get into a final drive situation, watch out...because I thought T.J. Yates was the best 2 minute situational quarterback in last year's draft, and I kept thinking of that LSU drive. Sure enough, 2:33 remaining, no timeouts, no Andre Johnson, 80 yards to go, needing 6 points....and he does it. I kept thinking well, 4 down territory should help execute this drive. But, he never even got to a 4th down. He converted all the 3rd downs.

spiketex
12-12-2011, 01:00 PM
It's a drive worth seeing. He didn't do everything 100% right, at one point as I recall he took a sack and he needed to get that ball out...but it was SO reminiscent of that LSU drive to end the game where they only came up short because Zach Pianalto dropped two consecutive passes in the end zone.

I kept thinking about that during the game as I saw him battling from behind by 9 points. I kept thinking if they get this to a one score game and they get into a final drive situation, watch out...because I thought T.J. Yates was the best 2 minute situational quarterback in last year's draft, and I kept thinking of that LSU drive. Sure enough, 2:33 remaining, no timeouts, no Andre Johnson, 80 yards to go, needing 6 points....and he does it. I kept thinking well, 4 down territory should help execute this drive. But, he never even got to a 4th down. He converted all the 3rd downs.

And he's only going to get better...

This is the difference between Miami and some of the other teams that are prepared to spend a 5th round pick that might be good value. Texans were seemingly set at QB but still prepared to look for additional value in developing a prospect.

ckparrothead
12-12-2011, 01:19 PM
And he's only going to get better...

This is the difference between Miami and some of the other teams that are prepared to spend a 5th round pick that might be good value. Texans were seemingly set at QB but still prepared to look for additional value in developing a prospect.

I couldn't agree more.

hooshoops
12-12-2011, 01:36 PM
that was a heck of a final drive yesterday by yates...what the heck happened to ponder yesterday??? benched for joe webb...yikes

ckparrothead
12-12-2011, 01:43 PM
that was a heck of a final drive yesterday by yates...what the heck happened to ponder yesterday??? benched for joe webb...yikes

Injured. He entered the game with a bad hip strain and I read reports of him going out during warmups to test it out, and the reports said he looked uncomfortable at best. I thought for sure that meant he wasn't going to play, and indeed several people reported he wasn't going to...but then for some reason, Leslie Frazier decided to play him anyway. He was clearly uncomfortable the entire game and he faced a Lions team that was anxious to get their losing streak behind them. I watched that entire game simultaneously with some other games and the 1st quarter of that game was an absolute onslaught.

Frazier made a mistake putting Ponder out there hurt even after he showed he wasn't comfortable in pre-game warmups. But, the alternative was Joe Webb...so I can see why Frazier might have been stuck between a rock and a hard place on that one.

ckparrothead
12-12-2011, 01:50 PM
The thing I admire about that final drive of Yates' is again the embrace of the little things that I talked about a lot back when I first wrote scouting reports on him. Take that 3rd & 15 scramble for a 1st down. He just made a fantastic play. Earlier on the drive Kevin Walter makes a good catch on a good throw by Yates and what does Walter do? Throws the ball to the ground, even though his team is in 2 minute mode with zero timeouts and the clock working against him. But on this 3rd & 15, you see Yates scramble pretty shockingly for the 1st down and as he's getting up, what does he do? He runs back to his players so that he can get them lined up properly for a clock play, but before he did that he placed the ball firmly on the ground so that the officials could collect the ball and get it spotted as quickly as they could with zero extra delay from having to collect a loose ball. This is a rookie. SMART. Acting like he's been there before. Basically, because he has. He executed 2 minute drills in college that I've rarely seen even in the pros.

And then on the final drive it wasn't just a throw to Kevin Walter as he slanted into a vacated space over the middle. Yates used his eyes to sell defenders before he threw that slant. That means he knew before the play what was going to be open, and he executed perfectly after the snap.

This guy's got a future.

JCPHIN_PHAN
12-12-2011, 02:00 PM
CK clearly highlighted Yates as the value QB in the draft. Unfortunately, he again confirmed that he knows more than the so-called experts who are on the payroll. The Miami Dolphins need to recruit CKparrothead!


All the TV heads have NFL fans thinking "who is this t.j. yates guy?" Well, anyone here at Finheaven who follows the draft knows about Yates because of CK. After watching CK's QB videos before the 2011 draft, i knew he had more potential then any QB on the phins roster. When Shaub went down i told my friends forget Leinhart, watch Yates when he gets his chance.

I know i thanked you guys before but, thanks again to CK, Slimm, hoops, Jim, GM davenport etc. You guys have have made the offseason and draft as enjoyable as the regular season for me because of scouting like this. Heres to hopefully getting Matt Barkley.

ckparrothead
12-12-2011, 02:13 PM
As awkward as this is to admit, when I really dug into Matt Barkley, a guy that Slimm has been talking about since at the very least right around the time I first started talking about Andrew Luck...but the part of me that fell in love with Yates is the same part of me that loves Barkley so much.

I hate to call them similar players because Yates went in the 5th round and I'm sure quite a few people are still very skeptical that he's actually any good, and so a comparison of Barkley to Yates would be evidence to them of Barkley's being overrated. However, I do see a lot of similarities. Barkley handles pressure better and is more accurate, less prone to bad decision-making. Yates was better timing the deep ball, was better in 2 minute/hurry up/high pressure situations, and had a firmer grasp on pro style passing concepts.

hooshoops
12-12-2011, 02:24 PM
i knew ponder had a hip pointer that had him questionable going in...didn't know it was the injury that got him pulled...thats much better than going to joe webb cause ponder was stinking up the joint

ckparrothead
12-12-2011, 02:39 PM
i knew ponder had a hip pointer that had him questionable going in...didn't know it was the injury that got him pulled...thats much better than going to joe webb cause ponder was stinking up the joint

Really a combination of both. Ponder was stinking up the joint because of his hip pointer. He was scoring points but he was also making too many mistakes.

spiketex
12-12-2011, 04:10 PM
Really a combination of both. Ponder was stinking up the joint because of his hip pointer. He was scoring points but he was also making too many mistakes.

Not all of the rookie QBs are going to make it. Vikings look stuck with Ponder and I think he could be very very average. He gets top marks for character, intelligence, decency etc but he stunk it up at FSU in a number of games. Yes, they will be in a high draft position but I wonder whether they draft like Carolina (bench Clausen for Cam Newton), if given the chance to get Luck, Barkley or RGIII?

ckparrothead
12-12-2011, 04:15 PM
Not all of the rookie QBs are going to make it. Vikings look stuck with Ponder and I think he could be very very average. He gets top marks for character, intelligence, decency etc but he stunk it up at FSU in a number of games. Yes, they will be in a high draft position but I wonder whether they draft like Carolina (bench Clausen for Cam Newton), if given the chance to get Luck, Barkley or RGIII?

I think the Vikings are very happy with Ponder despite benching him because of his hip pointer yesterday. I don't think they're drafting another QB.

ckparrothead
12-13-2011, 10:55 AM
Bill Polian says they were getting ready to take Yates in the same round that Houston took him but the Texans got him before they could. Asks, "Should we have taken him a round earlier? Yes, without a question."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/13/polian-hopes-caldwells-job-is-safe-almost-drafted-yates/

datruth55
12-13-2011, 10:58 AM
I don't think Yates would have done very well in Indy's offense. He seems a good fit for the WCO.

datruth55
12-13-2011, 11:01 AM
Bill Polian says they were getting ready to take Yates in the same round that Houston took him but the Texans got him before they could. Asks, "Should we have taken him a round earlier? Yes, without a question."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/13/polian-hopes-caldwells-job-is-safe-almost-drafted-yates/

LOL, I just read the article. The Colts didn't even have a pick in that round...I think Polian may be in survivor mode cause Colts fans are now on to him and his crappy drafts.

hooshoops
12-13-2011, 11:07 AM
i don't think minnesotas in play for a qb either with their top 3 likely pick...but i do think its very possible their a trade out candidate in the top 5...very possible

so whatever pick they do have i'd want to get to it

ckparrothead
12-13-2011, 11:26 AM
LOL, I just read the article. The Colts didn't even have a pick in that round...I think Polian may be in survivor mode cause Colts fans are now on to him and his crappy drafts.

It's possible they traded out of the round.

Also Cincinnati after they lost to Yates said that they had a very high grade on Yates and that he was the quarterback they were going to target if they didn't get Andy Dalton. They didn't say which round, just that he was their guy.

---------- Post added at 10:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 AM ----------


i don't think minnesotas in play for a qb either with their top 3 likely pick...but i do think its very possible their a trade out candidate in the top 5...very possible

so whatever pick they do have i'd want to get to it

Fully agree. Miami will have to monitor things to make sure nobody is trading up and bypassing them.

datruth55
12-13-2011, 11:29 AM
I think Minnesota and St. Louis are possible trade partners. Both have a lot of holes to fill and extra picks without having to drop much in the draft would be something they would probably jump at.

hooshoops
12-13-2011, 11:38 AM
the rams can't trade out of the top 5 even and have blackmon or claiborne there for them...so i think the rams at least are not a threat to trade out...imo they shouldn't either...go get blackmon or claiborne...premium talents at big time need positions

hooshoops
12-13-2011, 11:41 AM
lets say we finish at #5 which i think is still very much in play...you offer minnesota at #2 or #3 either in front of or behind the rams your pick at #5 and a 1st next year and they still can get kalil i think they take it...and you get your qb

count me in...hell you might even be able to offer them a 2nd next year and see if they bite...if not give em the 1st next year and i think you're cooking with gas...

hooshoops
12-22-2011, 10:43 PM
all i know is if the texans are gonna try and win in the postseason with an offense as conservative as their showing tonight against an opponent like the ravens or steelers or jets if they come there i don't think there's a shot in hell of it happening...they are gonna have to open it up or they'll be one and done...if someone can limit that zone stretch run play and the misdirection run plays they'll be in business cause tonight at least the only thing the texans are trying to do in the pass game is to leak out the te on the misdirection boot leg...

any of those 3 teams i mentioned will eat that **** for breakfast in the postseason...

hooshoops
12-22-2011, 10:51 PM
and sure enough on 3rd and 1 what do they do...go right back to the boot leg to the te and the colts have it snuffed out...gonna have to come up with something else houston...cause this isn't gonna win in the postseason

hooshoops
12-22-2011, 11:07 PM
jj watt is NICE...holy cow...you nailed that one slimm...

hooshoops
12-22-2011, 11:41 PM
man...i love what i see from jared odrick but jj watt is the prototype 34 de...wowzers... watching jj watt tonight just furthers my belief that odrick is a better 43 fit

Kistner10
12-22-2011, 11:45 PM
Odrick is looking pretty good as a 3-4 DE. Watt does as well, but I don't think that means Odrick isn't a fit. Our run defense is better than Houstons.

I really haven't been too impressed with Yate's pocket presence. It seems like he gets a sniff of a rusher coming near him and he wants to go down instead of sticking with the play.

hooshoops
12-23-2011, 12:01 AM
Odrick is looking pretty good as a 3-4 DE. Watt does as well, but I don't think that means Odrick isn't a fit. Our run defense is better than Houstons.

I really haven't been too impressed with Yate's pocket presence. It seems like he gets a sniff of a rusher coming near him and he wants to go down instead of sticking with the play.

i've noticed that as well...drops his eye level turtles up and goes to ground...but its not anywhere near blaine gabbert level...

freakin colts got reggie wayne singled up in the red zone all night on jason allen and don't go there...killin me...like they're trying to lose...there should be sirens going off whenever the qb comes to the los and sees that...check out of whatever garbage play you were gonna run and go to the 2 way go due to the off man coverage with wayne

Kistner10
12-23-2011, 12:29 AM
i've noticed that as well...drops his eye level turtles up and goes to ground...but its not anywhere near blaine gabbert level...

freakin colts got reggie wayne singled up in the red zone all night on jason allen and don't go there...killin me...like they're trying to lose...there should be sirens going off whenever the qb comes to the los and sees that...check out of whatever garbage play you were gonna run and go to the 2 way go due to the off man coverage with wayne

Blaine Gabbert is the worst.

Yates doesn't look comfortable throwing inside the pocket. He looks a lot better throwing on bootlegs. Orlovosky doesn't look that bad. Wayne had trouble beating single coverage all night. I could see Orlovosky developing into a solid backup for Indy someday.

hooshoops
12-23-2011, 12:31 AM
what a damn game...reggie wayne does it again...and jj watt...that kids a nightmare...

houston be ready to be one and done...you get the jets and revis locks down andre johnson and your history!!! same for pittsburgh or baltimore...that run game isn't gonna destroy any of them

b/t outside of that last rush where the colts were leading dwight freeney mailed it in tonight...hes been ready for vaca

colts playin themselves out of andrew luck...dumb ***** ha ha

datruth55
12-23-2011, 12:46 AM
what a damn game...reggie wayne does it again...and jj watt...that kids a nightmare...

houston be ready to be one and done...you get the jets and revis locks down andre johnson and your history!!! same for pittsburgh or baltimore...that run game isn't gonna destroy any of them

b/t outside of that last rush where the colts were leading dwight freeney mailed it in tonight...hes been ready for vaca

colts playin themselves out of andrew luck...dumb ***** ha ha
It would only be justice if they missed out on Luck. Just not right that they franchise has had the opportunity to draft Elway (who refused to play for them), Peyton Manning and now Luck. Somehow they've timed their suckiness just right.

hooshoops
12-23-2011, 12:49 AM
man...you know polian is privately seething right now...what do you do...go in the lockerroom and tell the players to tank it week 17 against awful *** gabbert??? lmao...that stuff would leak out to the media if they did

love it

ckparrothead
12-23-2011, 01:14 AM
I knew this could happen. Short week, Indy flying high off its first win of the year, Texans at a low point after snapping a 7 game win streak, having already clinched the division, traveling on a short week to a hostile environment where they've never won in 10 tries...let's just say I put my money where my mouth was and I'm pretty happy about this outcome.

Since this is a Yates thread I'll comment on Yates. What I'll say is, 13 of 16 for 132 yards, 8.3 yards per attempt, on interceptions...he wasn't bad. I don't see criticism there. Save the criticism for the coaching staff. They played a "bad team" game plan today and it back fired on them. When you're playing a bad team you figure that you're better at executing than they are, and so all you have to do is execute normal, conservative plays...and eventually you'll win the game because the other team can't execute. The Texans had no desire to call anything that could have opened the offense up. I don't know how much of that you blame on Yates. The coaching staff is calling games like they just can't wait for Andre Johnson to come back healthy. That's the reality of the situation.

And that defensive meltdown on the final drive...you've gotta get hold of your players if you're Gary Kubiak. Unlike Mike Mayock, I thought ALL of the calls on that drive were justified, even the one where Watt dropped Orlovsky at his feet. The Texans are going to ask for that penalty to be reviewed and the review is going to come back saying it was a justified call because Watt grabbed onto Orlovsky's feet while he was on the ground and continued to put pressure on his legs even after the throw, trying to bring him down. You can get cute with camera angles and try and claim Watt was blocked into the legs, yadda yadda yadda, but at that moment when Watt had his legs and Orlovsky had thrown the ball, Watt was still trying to bring him down by the legs. He committed a violation and he was called for it. The other calls were spot on as well and they gave the Colts the game.

Next week the Texans get Andre Johnson back, and they'll have had a nice long week to get some install in there and work on some more advanced passing with Yates, work on opening some things up. Expect them to come at the Titans with a fresh approach, a more aggressive game plan, and to start executing how they expect to execute in the playoffs.

hooshoops
12-23-2011, 01:18 AM
i agree they tried to win the game conservative as hell...but i'm damn confident that unless they get much more aggressive and yates makes some plays in the passing game they're one and done in the postseason...

so kubiak better open things up and just hope for the best with the kid...or they'll die a slow death

hooshoops
12-23-2011, 01:26 AM
b/t ck i didn't mean to hijack your thread...beers were flowin game was fantastic and i'm a football junkie...i don't think yates played bad per say i think he played to what they allowed him to play...i did think the pressure stuff i saw with the way he reacted wasn't good but i'm not willing to say thats a no go either like i am with gabbert...but and i think you know it that won't win in the postseason with what they're staring at opening weekend...that offense is gonna have to grow a pair and trust the kid

datruth55
12-23-2011, 01:28 AM
More than anything the Texans are missing Wade Phillips to call the defense. That takes a lot of pressure off Yates and the offense and gives them more opportunities to get the offense going.

But they are going to have to open it up a bit if they want to win in the playoffs.

hooshoops
12-23-2011, 01:32 AM
andre johnson out hurts also but unless i'm mistaken he was ruled out monday...so that kinda makes me wonder if he'll be a lock to go next week even...when guys are ruled out that early in the game week makes me think them playing even the following is dicey

ckparrothead
12-23-2011, 01:33 AM
They won't win in the post season with that kind of game plan unless Andre Johnson comes back at full strength. He can make that kind of game plan work by providing the spark to make big plays that take that from a 16 point game plan to more of a 25 point game plan, and then the conservatism and ball control combined with a defense could actually work well in tournament play.

I'm not worried about hijacking the Yates thread. Was a great game and the Colts are actively shooting themselves in the foot with Andrew Luck, giving us hope where there was none.

---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 AM ----------


andre johnson out hurts also but unless i'm mistaken he was ruled out monday...so that kinda makes me wonder if he'll be a lock to go next week even...when guys are ruled out that early in the game week makes me think them playing even the following is dicey

I think they've already said that as of right now their plan is for him to play against the Titans.

hooshoops
12-23-2011, 01:36 AM
yeah but ck even with andre johnson that whole thing with yates revolves around the running game...and i just don't see the running game being their bread and butter against pitt or baltimore or the jets in the postseason...and andre its likely he won't be 100 percent when he does come back and you just know that there will be more pressure on yates against any of those teams in the postseason than he saw tonight...

limit that zone stretch and misdirection running game and put the game in yates hands and houstons done...nothing against the kid but thats the formula

houstons front 5 is nice but the secondary can be exploited and they're not the stoutest against the run...

Ilovemyfins4eva
12-23-2011, 01:42 AM
They won't win in the post season with that kind of game plan unless Andre Johnson comes back at full strength. He can make that kind of game plan work by providing the spark to make big plays that take that from a 16 point game plan to more of a 25 point game plan, and then the conservatism and ball control combined with a defense could actually work well in tournament play.

I'm not worried about hijacking the Yates thread. Was a great game and the Colts are actively shooting themselves in the foot with Andrew Luck, giving us hope where there was none.

---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 AM ----------



I think they've already said that as of right now their plan is for him to play against the Titans.its prob not worth it for johnson to play vs the titans. they are pretty much locked into the 3 seed, and this is the 2nd time johnson has suffered a hamstring injury this season. its been a lingering problem. give him as much time possible off and let him be fully healthy come jan 7th/8th for the raiders/jets/steelers/bengals, whoever

Kistner10
12-23-2011, 01:45 AM
I think the biggest impact of Johnson coming back is that teams are going to have to play Houston honestly, whether Johnson is at full strength or not. His presence alone should stop teams from bringing a safety in the box.

hooshoops
12-23-2011, 01:57 AM
I think the biggest impact of Johnson coming back is that teams are going to have to play Houston honestly, whether Johnson is at full strength or not. His presence alone should stop teams from bringing a safety in the box.

i don't think thats the case...in the postseason with a qb as green as yates is and with what you're seeing from them on tape tonight at least i am all about stopping the run first and foremost and when i get them in long downs and distances doubling aj and looking out for the te which is his security blanket...

limit the run you will beat the texans in the postseason...at least for this year

ckparrothead
12-23-2011, 01:59 AM
Teams in the playoffs will force Yates to beat them over top and prove he can throw to Andre Johnson down the field.

Thing is, he can...and he showed it right away in that first game against the Falcons. That's why I think this conservative game planning can work if Johnson comes back. He threw a great deep ball to Jacoby Jones to start out the Bengals game, but Jacoby dropped it. It was a perfect deep throw. Andre Johnson doesn't drop that ball.

hooshoops
12-23-2011, 02:04 AM
Teams in the playoffs will force Yates to beat them over top and prove he can throw to Andre Johnson down the field.

Thing is, he can...and he showed it right away in that first game against the Falcons. That's why I think this conservative game planning can work if Johnson comes back. He threw a great deep ball to Jacoby Jones to start out the Bengals game, but Jacoby dropped it. It was a perfect deep throw. Andre Johnson doesn't drop that ball.

so ck...straight up...you think even with andre that texans team beats the jets or pittsburgh or baltimore if they come in the building on wildcard weekend???

ckparrothead
12-23-2011, 02:08 AM
so ck...straight up...you think even with andre that texans team beats the jets or pittsburgh or baltimore if they come in the building on wildcard weekend???

It depends on Wade Phillips health and the status of the defense, to be honest. A little shine has come off that defense with Wade ailing.

But yeah I think they have a style that plays well in tournament play, to a certain degree. I think they're capable of getting to the AFC Championship but that's about as far as I could see them going.

hooshoops
12-23-2011, 02:10 AM
It depends on Wade Phillips health and the status of the defense, to be honest. A little shine has come off that defense with Wade ailing.

But yeah I think they have a style that plays well in tournament play, to a certain degree. I think they're capable of getting to the AFC Championship but that's about as far as I could see them going.

fair enough...i say any of those teams limit that running game which they will all sell out to do and they're done...

TXFinFan
12-23-2011, 02:14 AM
The Texans loss tonight is ALL on Gary Sparano, oops, I mean Gary Kubiak. I long for the day when there are no longer any pansy conservative head coaches in the NFL. TJ Yates would've won the game tonight if Kubiak had taken the leash off.

ckparrothead
12-23-2011, 02:21 AM
A lot easier said than done. That's the best run blocking offensive line in football and Arian Foster is an expert in picking his lanes. With that zone stuff it's never a matter of just straight up beating your man. Everything's on the move. They can stretch you to the outside, they can run the zone-in cutback to the back side, or they can bootleg off it. The effect is that linebackers and defensive linemen have to respect all three zones, creating all kinds of hesitation. The zone-stretch and bootlegs set up the zone-inside nicely. The hesitation in the linebackers watching for the back side bootleg created zone-inside lanes. Once those were exploited the bootlegs came open again.

Again I think you need an Andre Johnson for the defense to have cause to respect you deep but also because when Yates throws that beautiful deep ball of his you need a guy with skill to run under it and catch it, hurt the defense.

We'll see. Next week will be a good indication. They're going to take the long week with Andre back and really try and work on the execution of the offense, maybe open up a few more avenues in the play calling, then try and hit Tennessee with it to see if it works. If it does, that will be an encouraging sign as they head into the playoffs.

ChrisHanson
12-23-2011, 12:32 PM
I knew this could happen. Short week, Indy flying high off its first win of the year, Texans at a low point after snapping a 7 game win streak, having already clinched the division, traveling on a short week to a hostile environment where they've never won in 10 tries...let's just say I put my money where my mouth was and I'm pretty happy about this outcome.

Since this is a Yates thread I'll comment on Yates. What I'll say is, 13 of 16 for 132 yards, 8.3 yards per attempt, on interceptions...he wasn't bad. I don't see criticism there. Save the criticism for the coaching staff. They played a "bad team" game plan today and it back fired on them. When you're playing a bad team you figure that you're better at executing than they are, and so all you have to do is execute normal, conservative plays...and eventually you'll win the game because the other team can't execute. The Texans had no desire to call anything that could have opened the offense up. I don't know how much of that you blame on Yates. The coaching staff is calling games like they just can't wait for Andre Johnson to come back healthy. That's the reality of the situation.

And that defensive meltdown on the final drive...you've gotta get hold of your players if you're Gary Kubiak. Unlike Mike Mayock, I thought ALL of the calls on that drive were justified, even the one where Watt dropped Orlovsky at his feet. The Texans are going to ask for that penalty to be reviewed and the review is going to come back saying it was a justified call because Watt grabbed onto Orlovsky's feet while he was on the ground and continued to put pressure on his legs even after the throw, trying to bring him down. You can get cute with camera angles and try and claim Watt was blocked into the legs, yadda yadda yadda, but at that moment when Watt had his legs and Orlovsky had thrown the ball, Watt was still trying to bring him down by the legs. He committed a violation and he was called for it. The other calls were spot on as well and they gave the Colts the game.

Next week the Texans get Andre Johnson back, and they'll have had a nice long week to get some install in there and work on some more advanced passing with Yates, work on opening some things up. Expect them to come at the Titans with a fresh approach, a more aggressive game plan, and to start executing how they expect to execute in the playoffs.

If Henne had a game like Yates did last night most people, including you, would have been tearing him a new one. It seems you left out Yates' turnover in your "not bad" stats. I'm not sold on Yates and I'm not sure how anyone could be after only 5 games, 3TD, 3INT, 6 fumbles, and a 180 YPG passing average. Hell, in his last two games against 2 of the worst teams in the NFL he has 0 TD passes and 3 turnovers.

Phinatic8u
12-23-2011, 12:45 PM
Andre Johnson coming back does nothing but help Yates and that Hou offense.

Hell he gives them a weapon capable of taking a game over.

Phinatic8u
12-23-2011, 12:45 PM
If Henne had a game like Yates did last night most people, including you, would have been tearing him a new one. It seems you left out Yates' turnover in your "not bad" stats. I'm not sold on Yates and I'm not sure how anyone could be after only 5 games, 3TD, 3INT, 6 fumbles, and a 180 YPG passing average. Hell, in his last two games against 2 of the worst teams in the NFL he has 0 TD passes and 3 turnovers.

Yates is a mid round rookie.

ckparrothead
01-07-2012, 08:20 PM
T.J. Yates has now won more playoff games than the Dolphins have won in 10 years.

datruth55
01-07-2012, 08:39 PM
It's not like Yates carried the team in the win, he threw 20 passes. Are you going to toot your horn every time Yates does the slightest thing in the NFL? Where were you the last 3 weeks when they were on a 3 game losing streak and he wasn't doing crap. Wade Phillips has been the biggest reason this team is still winning without Matt Schaub, lets not kid ourselves. No Wade Phillips the last 3 weeks and it was 3 straight losses.

Hayden Fox
01-07-2012, 08:50 PM
Good for T.J. Yates. Don't take anything away from him. I think he will get his *** kicked next week, but for a late round pick who cares?

I will say this...Miami would have beaten a T.J. Yates led team today OR would have gone to Denver and beaten the Broncos. The Fins were the 4th best team in the NFL when the season ended. Just cannot start 0-7 to say the least.

ckparrothead
01-07-2012, 08:54 PM
It's not like Yates carried the team in the win, he threw 20 passes. Are you going to toot your horn every time Yates does the slightest thing in the NFL? Where were you the last 3 weeks when they were on a 3 game losing streak and he wasn't doing crap. Wade Phillips has been the biggest reason this team is still winning without Matt Schaub, lets not kid ourselves. No Wade Phillips the last 3 weeks and it was 3 straight losses.

He just won a PLAYOFF game, which many people insisted he couldn't do. So yeah, I'm gonna bring it up.

Where was I the last three weeks? I've been here the whole time. I talked plenty about Yates after the Colys loss. He'll I even predicted the Colts loss. And yeah, you can ignorantly hang the Week 17 loss on him if you want. But those that pay attention know Yates was only in for about one drive, and it was an 80+ yard TD drive, then he was pulled with a banged shoulder because the Texans didn't care about the outcome of the came (hence going for two from like 14 yards out after penalty instead of kicking the extra point to go into overtime).

A rookie 5th round pick just won a playoff game and you don't expect the first guy to have been talking him up extensively at a time most everyone believed him a camp arm at best, to mention it? Are you new to message boards?

datruth55
01-07-2012, 09:00 PM
Alright ck toot your horn away. It gets tiring after a while. You weren't the only one that liked Yates though, there were others here as well. Personally I think Yates is average and I don't think he's better than Matt Moore so he wouldn't have benefited us in any way.

Keep tootin that horn though.

Roman529
01-07-2012, 10:24 PM
This is why I want us to draft ASU's Brock Osweiler. He has lots of upside and I love his mobility for a big man. If he can get with a good QB coach who can prepare him for the NFL, like the guy who worked with Cam Newton last off season, he will be great.

Kistner10
01-07-2012, 11:36 PM
You should be tooting Arian Foster's horn, not T.J. Yates lol

DcRy82
01-08-2012, 03:30 AM
Texans have the 2nd best rushing attack yardage wise this year and you wana say that Yates is why the Texans have won games since he stepped in? Would you also be willing to say he's the reason they lost the last 3? Yates was a good game manager today, he didn't "win" a playoff game for them.

hooshoops
01-08-2012, 11:26 AM
ehhh...when i said they'd be one and done i was thinking it was the jets or the ravens or the steelers that was comin in that building...not the damn bengals...that said i still don't like the way yates deals with pressure...to me he was pretty average overall...managed the game...didn't make the mistakes to lose the game i'll give him that...and got pacman jones to bite on a double move...that and chris crocker was horrid in this game...

congrats houston...it ends in baltimore next week...i have a feelin its gonna be a big game for ed reed

hooshoops
01-08-2012, 11:30 AM
Good for T.J. Yates. Don't take anything away from him. I think he will get his *** kicked next week, but for a late round pick who cares?

I will say this...Miami would have beaten a T.J. Yates led team today OR would have gone to Denver and beaten the Broncos. The Fins were the 4th best team in the NFL when the season ended. Just cannot start 0-7 to say the least.

that couldn't be any more homer...

ckparrothead
01-08-2012, 12:40 PM
If average involves a 98 quarterback rating in the playoffs as a rookie, I'll take average any day of the week, twice on Sunday.

ckparrothead
01-08-2012, 12:47 PM
I believe in passer rating differential as a predictor of success and championships. It's not perfect and it won't predict every game, but here were the regular season passer rating differentials for all the playoff teams:

GB +42.1
NO +24.1
HOU +23.7
NE +19.6
PIT +18.0
SF +17.8
DET +15.1
BAL +12.9
ATL +7.8
NYG +6.8
CIN -5.4
DEN -19.6

The Houston-Cincinnati outcome was a lot less questionable than people thought. It's no coincidence that the game came out with Houston (Yates) having a 98 passer rating and Cincinnati (Dalton) a passer rating in the 50's. That differential itself is a killer. If the Texans can achieve the same thing against the Ravens, who finished with a +12.9 rating differential in 2011, then you're staring at a Houston team that could easily end up in the AFC Championship Game. Joe Flacco will be vulnerable to that Houston defense. We'll see. I predict Baltimore victory, but I also think Baltimore will go to the Super Bowl so it's no real shame to lose to them. But the Packers will still win the Super Bowl, preserving passer rating differential as still the best predictor of championships.

Also the Packers were like 10-0 against teams that finished with 8-8 records or better.

Hayden Fox
01-08-2012, 01:06 PM
that couldn't be any more homer...

it is a homer statement, but I DO believe that. I call like I see it. I can be hyper-critical at times, but I think the Fins are 4th best team in the AFC at the end of the year.

hooshoops
01-08-2012, 03:13 PM
I believe in passer rating differential as a predictor of success and championships. It's not perfect and it won't predict every game, but here were the regular season passer rating differentials for all the playoff teams:

GB +42.1
NO +24.1
HOU +23.7
NE +19.6
PIT +18.0
SF +17.8
DET +15.1
BAL +12.9
ATL +7.8
NYG +6.8
CIN -5.4
DEN -19.6

The Houston-Cincinnati outcome was a lot less questionable than people thought. It's no coincidence that the game came out with Houston (Yates) having a 98 passer rating and Cincinnati (Dalton) a passer rating in the 50's. That differential itself is a killer. If the Texans can achieve the same thing against the Ravens, who finished with a +12.9 rating differential in 2011, then you're staring at a Houston team that could easily end up in the AFC Championship Game. Joe Flacco will be vulnerable to that Houston defense. We'll see. I predict Baltimore victory, but I also think Baltimore will go to the Super Bowl so it's no real shame to lose to them. But the Packers will still win the Super Bowl, preserving passer rating differential as still the best predictor of championships.

Also the Packers were like 10-0 against teams that finished with 8-8 records or better.

imo the pack better watch out for the giants next week...if the giants get out of today...(got the dvr goin right now so don't know whats goin on with that game)...but don't sleep on the giants

---------- Post added at 02:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------


it is a homer statement, but I DO believe that. I call like I see it. I can be hyper-critical at times, but I think the Fins are 4th best team in the AFC at the end of the year.

your post said 4th best team in the nfl...not afc...even then though i still think its a stretch...but like you said you call em like you see em...and i see it a lot different

Kistner10
01-08-2012, 04:46 PM
If average involves a 98 quarterback rating in the playoffs as a rookie, I'll take average any day of the week, twice on Sunday.

His QB rating is definately misleading. He looked shaky at best. 11-20 for 158 yards is not something I'd take any day of the week. Yates deserves credit for managing the game and not throwing killer INT's, but he didn't do anything special at all. That pass he threw that Crocker dropped would've been a killer and the way he handles pressure is still pretty awful. I know Yates is your guy and all, but he hasn't shown that he is anything except a future backup in this league. It's not a bad thing, especially for a 5th round pick. He should have a long career.

tylerdolphin
01-08-2012, 05:33 PM
Yea, the guy wasnt QB Jesus out there, but if Im the Texans I have to feel good about a late round QB that can go into a playoff game as a rookie and not only not completely implode, but actually play well enough to win. Who knows what happens with his career, but you gotta like the potential.

hooshoops
01-09-2012, 12:05 AM
i give ck credit for finding the kid and for being in his court but lets be honest...the texans are crazy if they trade matt schaub off what they saw from yates...and i'm not even a guy in schaubs camp as a franchise qb

ckparrothead
01-09-2012, 12:32 AM
Let's wait for more playoff games before we start saying that. The Texans are one vintage Flacco playoff vomit session away from the AFC Championship Game.

hooshoops
01-09-2012, 12:36 AM
the texans are gonna get rolled next week...limit that stretch/zone run and make tj yates make plays in the passing game and you're gonna end up with short fields and turnovers...easy gameplan for baltimore...limit the run bring pressure on yates and easy money

the afc playoffs this upcoming week as a whole are gonna be a joke...the games to watch will be in the nfc

Hayden Fox
01-09-2012, 09:36 AM
imo the pack better watch out for the giants next week...if the giants get out of today...(got the dvr goin right now so don't know whats goin on with that game)...but don't sleep on the giants

---------- Post added at 02:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------



your post said 4th best team in the nfl...not afc...even then though i still think its a stretch...but like you said you call em like you see em...and i see it a lot different

No I didn't.. I said AFC...look at Post #143. I guess you do see things a lot differently.

ChrisHanson
01-09-2012, 10:03 AM
If average involves a 98 quarterback rating in the playoffs as a rookie, I'll take average any day of the week, twice on Sunday.

LOL!! Calm down, bro. He completed 55% (11 completions) of his passes for 150 yards. Granted, he didn't throw a pick, but that's because the Cinci D morphed into the 2010 Dolphins when their DB's couldn't catch a cold. The Texans won because they ran the ball well and played great defense. Yates' claim to fame wasn't a "98 QBR" but that some of his horrible passes weren't intercepted and the Texans OC made sure NOT to put the game in his hands. :chuckle:

---------- Post added at 10:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 AM ----------


i give ck credit for finding the kid and for being in his court but lets be honest...the texans are crazy if they trade matt schaub off what they saw from yates...and i'm not even a guy in schaubs camp as a franchise qb

Schaub is 1000X's better than Yates.

hooshoops
01-09-2012, 10:17 AM
No I didn't.. I said AFC...look at Post #143. I guess you do see things a lot differently.

look at post #133 which i even quoted of yours later and tell me who read it wrong...

RobertHorry
01-09-2012, 12:12 PM
Yates looks pretty nice out there, but lets not get carried away. He threw a good deep ball to Johnson after Johnson destroyed Joseph(not sure if right CB) on that double move, selling it perfectly when he sunk his hips on that first move and exploded out. Yates only had to put it there. He had a terrible pass down the field when he had Johnson splitting the safeties and it should have been picked off.

He's a rookie and I like him. But lets be honest, if he was on Miami right now, he would be staring at 2-14 with him starting maybe 3-13. He needs that dominant running game he has in in HOU.

Hayden Fox
01-09-2012, 01:32 PM
look at post #133 which i even quoted of yours later and tell me who read it wrong...

You are right...AFC!!! LOL.

However, I did say AFC later and you quoted that....

ChrisHanson
01-09-2012, 01:33 PM
Yates looks pretty nice out there, but lets not get carried away. He threw a good deep ball to Johnson after Johnson destroyed Joseph(not sure if right CB) on that double move, selling it perfectly when he sunk his hips on that first move and exploded out. Yates only had to put it there. He had a terrible pass down the field when he had Johnson splitting the safeties and it should have been picked off.

He's a rookie and I like him. But lets be honest, if he was on Miami right now, he would be staring at 2-14 with him starting maybe 3-13. He needs that dominant running game he has in in HOU.

Yep.

Although, maybe CK was correct in saying that we should have drafted Yates last draft.

If we had, we'd have a shot at Luck this draft. :chuckle:

hooshoops
01-15-2012, 11:54 PM
there might be some on this board who will let this go unnoticed ck bu i'm not one of them...yates today threw 3 picks and it should have been 5...like i said i smelled a big game from ed reed in this one...he just dropped 2 picks he should have had

and its time to give that they might trade schaub stuff a rest

ckparrothead
01-16-2012, 02:10 AM
Took arguably the best defense in the league and two Hall of Famers to finally make him look like a rookie. Have to tip your hat to the Ravens. Ed Reed baited Yates several times. There are only 5 rookie QBs to have a playoff win in the Super Bowl era. There are even fewer that have 2 playoff wins.

Nonetheless he went further than Andy Dalton and I think he had the 2nd best rookie year of all the rookie QBs this year.

The Texans didn't go far enough to think about trading Schaub in 2012. But they'll be thinking about it in 2013, you can be assured of that.

hooshoops
01-16-2012, 02:16 AM
andy dalton imo was way overrated all season...that said yates had too much eyes for andre johnson and ed reed baited him...if schaub has another year where he can't stay healthy the texans should be looking at moving him...

and i don't know if you picked up on it or not but ray lewis if anythings not inside the tackles looks SLOW

ckparrothead
01-16-2012, 03:01 AM
I saw Ray Lewis surprisingly misfire a lot in stopping the run. But that run game and the way Arian Foster picks his creases can be extremely hard to defend at times. I saw one play where Ray got out to the perimeter just fine. Yates had beaten the pressure and rolled out on a 3rd & 7 in the red zone, and it looked at first like he should have run for the 1st down but on the wider angle, Ray Lewis had been back in coverage and saw Yates scramble out, and ran from opposite hash all the way to the sideline and was bearing down on Yates so hard there's no way he would have made the 1st down even if he'd decisively started to run right from the beginning of the scramble. Showed some legs for an old man.

This Patriots game is going to be better than people think. The Patriots offense is NOT built on speed. They don't have enough speed, as a matter of fact. The Patriots offense is built on matchups and being smarter than their opponent. But the Ravens defense is full of versatile players that are extremely, extremely smart. So that's going to be an excellent match. And the Patriots won't be able to get one guy to lock down Torrey Smith the way Jonathan Joseph did, which was a brilliant call by Wade Phillips. That could open the Ravens offense up to have a lot more success against a leaky Patriots defense.

This final four is full of defenses, not today's "new age" offenses. The Packers got ousted. The Saints got ousted. All that remains is the Patriots offense and you can at least partially attribute that to having a really week opponent.

It's an interesting counter-wave to the wave of quarterback superiority and new age offense.

hooshoops
01-16-2012, 11:33 AM
i think this weekends games are both gonna be great...i saw foster turn the corner on some things that a few years ago would never happen with ray lewis...definitely looks like he's slowing down to me

ChrisHanson
01-16-2012, 11:42 AM
there might be some on this board who will let this go unnoticed ck bu i'm not one of them...yates today threw 3 picks and it should have been 5...like i said i smelled a big game from ed reed in this one...he just dropped 2 picks he should have had

and its time to give that they might trade schaub stuff a rest

Yates sucks and if they choose him over Schaub they will regret it.

---------- Post added at 11:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 AM ----------


I saw Ray Lewis surprisingly misfire a lot in stopping the run. But that run game and the way Arian Foster picks his creases can be extremely hard to defend at times. I saw one play where Ray got out to the perimeter just fine. Yates had beaten the pressure and rolled out on a 3rd & 7 in the red zone, and it looked at first like he should have run for the 1st down but on the wider angle, Ray Lewis had been back in coverage and saw Yates scramble out, and ran from opposite hash all the way to the sideline and was bearing down on Yates so hard there's no way he would have made the 1st down even if he'd decisively started to run right from the beginning of the scramble. Showed some legs for an old man.

This Patriots game is going to be better than people think. The Patriots offense is NOT built on speed. They don't have enough speed, as a matter of fact. The Patriots offense is built on matchups and being smarter than their opponent. But the Ravens defense is full of versatile players that are extremely, extremely smart. So that's going to be an excellent match. And the Patriots won't be able to get one guy to lock down Torrey Smith the way Jonathan Joseph did, which was a brilliant call by Wade Phillips. That could open the Ravens offense up to have a lot more success against a leaky Patriots defense.

This final four is full of defenses, not today's "new age" offenses. The Packers got ousted. The Saints got ousted. All that remains is the Patriots offense and you can at least partially attribute that to having a really week opponent.

It's an interesting counter-wave to the wave of quarterback superiority and new age offense.

Like I've been saying all along. ;)

Kistner10
01-16-2012, 01:09 PM
I'm actually picking Baltimore to beat New England.

hooshoops
01-16-2012, 01:30 PM
I'm actually picking Baltimore to beat New England.

right there with you on that...

ChrisHanson
01-16-2012, 01:48 PM
I'm actually picking Baltimore to beat New England.

me three

TXFinFan
01-16-2012, 02:22 PM
The Pats will curb stomp the Ratbirds.

ChrisHanson
01-16-2012, 02:43 PM
The Pats will curb stomp the Ratbirds.

33-14 ;)

Phinatic8u
01-16-2012, 04:05 PM
Schaub would've won that game.

Easily.

Is it right to say that Foster is the best RB in the NFL?

RobertHorry
01-17-2012, 11:24 AM
Took arguably the best defense in the league and two Hall of Famers to finally make him look like a rookie. Have to tip your hat to the Ravens. Ed Reed baited Yates several times. There are only 5 rookie QBs to have a playoff win in the Super Bowl era. There are even fewer that have 2 playoff wins.

Nonetheless he went further than Andy Dalton and I think he had the 2nd best rookie year of all the rookie QBs this year.

The Texans didn't go far enough to think about trading Schaub in 2012. But they'll be thinking about it in 2013, you can be assured of that.

Even in the Bengals game he made some terrible throws. Again, that running game and defense is helping the Texans more than Yates is.

Kistner10
01-17-2012, 09:33 PM
I definately wouldn't go as far to say he was the 2nd best rookie QB so far.

Newton and Dalton seem to have those on lock. Locker looked pretty good in limited action as well.

I'm not a huge fan of Ponder, but I think he'd look pretty good in Houston with how much they'd protect him with their run game and defense.

Yates looks very much like a capable backup. I think Houston just found their backup to Schaub for the next 3-5 years. I'd say that was a great find by you CK, but I don't think anyone in Houston is thinking of trading away Schaub.