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sinPHIN
04-03-2011, 11:54 PM
Analyst Charles davis, steve wyche, bucky brooks, pat kirwan's mocks
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/mock-drafts?module=HP_headlines

kirwan has us taking prince? awsome player but we have much bigger needs

ry-dbar
04-04-2011, 12:56 AM
I saw that too. Had to contemplate it for a while Prince is a hell of a player, but you are right we have bigger needs. We would have a nice secondary though.

Buff
04-04-2011, 06:21 AM
mmmm. If it fell that way with Prince, there be a lot of teams knocking on our door for a trade.....

emeraldfin
04-04-2011, 07:29 AM
I think if Prince fell to us at 15, I would say someone like the Ravens or Seahawks would trade up for him, as the Jaguars at 16 need help at CB.

I think I would cry if we took Castonzo at 15.

ckparrothead
04-04-2011, 11:03 AM
Prince Amukamara is a special player and I'd love to take him. But if you do that, you'd better have a plan for the quarterback position and it had better be a good one that can get the players in the locker room and the fans in the stands believing in the team. If not, the team could be a train wreck. I don't know whether that plan would include Carson Palmer or what, but it had better be a good plan. Based on what I've heard about Carson's situation with his wife and California, I don't think it can be him.

Valandui
04-04-2011, 11:04 AM
Prince Amukamara is a special player and I'd love to take him. But if you do that, you'd better have a plan for the quarterback position and it had better be a good one that can get the players in the locker room and the fans in the stands believing in the team. If not, the team could be a train wreck. I don't know whether that plan would include Carson Palmer or what, but it had better be a good plan. Based on what I've heard about Carson's situation with his wife and California, I don't think it can be him.
What's his situation with his wife?

BARF
04-04-2011, 11:13 AM
i am praying that a lot of these top 10 players fall so we get some trade offers

TrinidadDolfan
04-04-2011, 01:00 PM
Not one of them has Mallett in the top 14, hope it pans out that way

nice

Canadi-Phin
04-04-2011, 01:46 PM
Kirwan keeps giving us the value at that pick. First Prince and this week it was Bowers. He keeps saying that at our spot there is no one who haolds the value in a position of need so we take the best value. THis is why I think we will have a trade no problem. Someone is going to drop that someone else likes.

X-Pacolypse
04-04-2011, 06:21 PM
What's his situation with his wife?

She wants to stay in California.

Valandui
04-04-2011, 06:43 PM
She wants to stay in California.

If she's already in California, what's the difference in him playing in Miami and him playing in Ohio?

X-Pacolypse
04-04-2011, 06:54 PM
If she's already in California, what's the difference in him playing in Miami and him playing in Ohio?

She wants to stay in Cali during the season. She's from the Bay Area, and the Palmers have a residence out in Laguna Beach. That's why Carson is probably hoping for a trade to San Fran.

Valandui
04-04-2011, 07:02 PM
She wants to stay in Cali during the season. She's from the Bay Area, and the Palmers have a residence out in Laguna Beach. That's why Carson is probably hoping for a trade to San Fran.

Makes sense.

SCOTTY
04-04-2011, 09:08 PM
Not one of them has Mallett in the top 14, hope it pans out that way

nice

And then just like Quinn they get a close up of his face as Miami passes on him. And you can read his lips "That's a surprise". Except I'm calling it now-so no surprises.

Aqua and Orange
04-05-2011, 10:57 AM
Wow, I hate all four of these picks at 15.

finsfanjay13
04-05-2011, 11:25 AM
I would love to have Prince. That would solidify our secondary for YEARS. However, the way things are falling, it may be best to go ahead and trade down. Unless a big time play maker falls to 15, it's best to recoup.

footsteps_falco
04-05-2011, 11:32 AM
i think our secondary needs another playmaker at CB and Safety so i'd be all for a prince amukamara pick. i mean our defense is great but it's not elite. if we improved the secondary and fixxed the run game we'd be unstoppable, even if henne was still the QB... maybe

twix2500
04-05-2011, 12:40 PM
They are definitely not drafting a corner in the first round. You can predict this because of the money they have tide up at that position. Personally, i wouldnt mind im all for drafting the most talented player at any position in the first round. They are either drafting a QB or RB in the first round they have made that pretty much clear, and im 90% sure its going to be a QB in the first unless all of the top four qb are drafted before the 15th. I think our first round draft board wish list looks like this;

1.Cam Newton
2.Blaine Gabbert
3.Ryan Mallet (pending on the findings of his drug issues)
4.Jake Locker
5.Mark Ingram
6.Christian Ponders

SCOTTY
04-05-2011, 02:28 PM
They are definitely not drafting a corner in the first round. You can predict this because of the money they have tide up at that position. Personally, i wouldnt mind im all for drafting the most talented player at any position in the first round. They are either drafting a QB or RB in the first round they have made that pretty much clear, and im 90% sure its going to be a QB in the first unless all of the top four qb are drafted before the 15th. I think our first round draft board wish list looks like this;

1.Cam Newton
2.Blaine Gabbert
3.Ryan Mallet (pending on the findings of his drug issues)
4.Jake Locker
5.Mark Ingram
6.Christian Ponders

I missed this announcement. Can you please post a link.

Personally I feel fans are QB happy on this sight. My $ is on the opposite. All those wanting a QB in the 1st are going to be disappointed. And with the rumors a flyin about Ingram, I don't see him at #15 either seeing we can get a great RB well into the 4th round.

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 02:39 PM
I missed this announcement. Can you please post a link.

Personally I feel fans are QB happy on this sight. My $ is on the opposite. All those wanting a QB in the 1st are going to be disappointed. And with the rumors a flyin about Ingram, I don't see him at #15 either seeing we can get a great RB well into the 4th round.

who's your great rb well into round 4???

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 02:42 PM
i wouldn't worry about prince...if houston doesn't take him at #11 he won't get past detroit at #13

the de group is our trade out meal ticket...

SCOTTY
04-05-2011, 02:48 PM
who's your great rb well into round 4???

There are over 40 RBs in the draft. I see only 5 that have a grade of 3 or better. Those that have 3/4 or worse that I would definitely consider: Todman(Uconn), Murray (Oklahoma), Helu(Nebraska), Devine(WVU) among other. Ingram's injury/health rumors I think should take him off the board for Miami in the 1st. Too risky now. I am going to step out on a ledge here and say you are going to argue the adjective great. So be it. I will be preemptive and change it to servicible. We can get a RB in the 4th that can produce as much as a RB in the 1st or 2nd.

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 02:56 PM
There are over 40 RBs in the draft. I see only 5 that have a grade of 3 or better. Those that have 3/4 or worse that I would definitely consider: Todman(Uconn), Murray (Oklahoma), Helu(Nebraska), Devine(WVU) among other. Ingram's injury/health rumors I think should take him off the board for Miami in the 1st. Too risky now. I am going to step out on a ledge here and say you are going to argue the adjective great. So be it. I will be preemptive and change it to servicible. We can get a RB in the 4th that can produce as much as a RB in the 1st or 2nd.

serviceable sounds a whole lot better than great...heck...lex hilliard is serviceable...although i wouldn't count murray or devine in even that category...as for ingram with the knee i need more evidence

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 03:06 PM
I hope Miami is just putting on some smokescreen about wanting everything but a quarterbacks.

I know they're trying to convince people of that. They're trying particularly hard to convince people they do NOT want Ryan Mallett, even though they've spent an awful lot of time with him. And this is verified by people I know, the Dolphins are putting the word out that they have zero interest in Ryan Mallett. None. Zip. Honestly. Absolutely no interest in the guy we've seen three or four times and will continue to see again in a week. No, really. He's just here because...oh, I dunno, who invited him again? Wasn't it just so that we'd have someone to throw to D.J. Williams? Yeah, that was it. Honest.

SCOTTY
04-05-2011, 03:12 PM
serviceable sounds a whole lot better than great...heck...lex hilliard is serviceable...although i wouldn't count murray or devine in even that category...as for ingram with the knee i need more evidence

I hear ya and agree. But I pose this. Let's say you can't get anymore evidence. Do you risk #15 on him?
I beleive Murray is going to be a very servicible RB in the NFL. I have a connection to Devine as I went to WVU. I've watched this guy since HS. I beleive he will produce in the NFL. Not a 10 year career. But for 4-6 years he will definitely make some team better. I disagree with Hillard being what these other guys can be. I just didn't see it from him.

LouPhinFan
04-05-2011, 03:13 PM
I hope Miami is just putting on some smokescreen about wanting everything but a quarterbacks.

I know they're trying to convince people of that. They're trying particularly hard to convince people that do NOT want Ryan Mallett, even though they've spent an awful lot of time with him. And this is verified by people I know, the Dolphins are putting the word out that they have zero interest in Ryan Mallett. None. Zip. Honestly. Absolutely no interest in the guy we've seen three or four times and will continue to see again in a week. No, really. He's just hear because...oh, I dunno, who invited him again? Wasn't it just so that we'd have someone to throw to D.J. Williams? Yeah, that was it. Honest.

:lol: PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE QUARTERBACK BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!

SCOTTY
04-05-2011, 03:16 PM
I hope Miami is just putting on some smokescreen about wanting everything but a quarterbacks.

I know they're trying to convince people of that. They're trying particularly hard to convince people that do NOT want Ryan Mallett, even though they've spent an awful lot of time with him. And this is verified by people I know, the Dolphins are putting the word out that they have zero interest in Ryan Mallett. None. Zip. Honestly. Absolutely no interest in the guy we've seen three or four times and will continue to see again in a week. No, really. He's just hear because...oh, I dunno, who invited him again? Wasn't it just so that we'd have someone to throw to D.J. Williams? Yeah, that was it. Honest.

LOL. Honestly I hate this QB class. I know everyone is down on Henne but: In my opinion, I think after letting TS have another year, after letting Ireland having another year (and yes, I know they were then signed to extension), I truely think Henne is going to be giving another year with Daboll running the O. I don't think they are going to go QB in this draft. I think Ireland is going to fill as many hole as possible-pick up a vet in FA as soon as CBS is signed-and if Henne fails this year-go with QB in next years draft. This is actaully what I would hope happens.

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 03:20 PM
LOL. Honestly I hate this QB class. I know everyone is down on Henne but: In my opinion, I think after letting TS have another year, after letting Ireland having another year (and yes, I know they were then signed to extension), I truely think Henne is going to be giving another year with Daboll running the O. I don't think they are going to go QB in this draft. I think Ireland is going to fill as many hole as possible-pick up a vet in FA as soon as CBS is signed-and if Henne fails this year-go with QB in next years draft. This is actaully what I would hope happens.

Their funeral, if they go that route. I think I've seen enough of Chad Henne both in college and in the pros to be about done with him, especially on this team and in this locker room full of players that don't believe in him. The off season and their workout programs will put a band-aid on the chasm that opened up between Henne and the rest of the team, but when the regular season starts back up again and they're losing games, going through the same old thing where every game they win is a close one and then they keep dropping a game after winning one...this team could split wide open like a rotted melon, and they won't wait until Week 17 like they did in 2010. They'll do it more like Week 7.

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 03:20 PM
I hear ya and agree. But I pose this. Let's say you can't get anymore evidence. Do you risk #15 on him?
I beleive Murray is going to be a very servicible RB in the NFL. I have a connection to Devine as I went to WVU. I've watched this guy since HS. I beleive he will produce in the NFL. Not a 10 year career. But for 4-6 years he will definitely make some team better. I disagree with Hillard being what these other guys can be. I just didn't see it from him.

i feel ya on hilliard while servicable to me he's always been jag...murray is off my board...upright running style doesn't make guys miss in space shoe string tackled too much always dinged up in college...not gonna run inside in the pros no thanks...

with ingram if i had access to his medicals and could see that there is no concern with ingrams knee hell yeah i'd be on him...its either him or mallet for me if he's healthy...i'm not gonna let a mike lombardi report influence my own medical results...screw that

but i think a healthy mark ingram is once every 5 years special...so it is what it is...that kids special on tape

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 03:21 PM
Their funeral, if they go that route. I think I've seen enough of Chad Henne both in college and in the pros to be about done with him, especially on this team and in this locker room full of players that don't believe in him. The off season and their workout programs will put a band-aid on the chasm that opened up between Henne and the rest of the team, but when the regular season starts back up again and they're losing games, going through the same old thing where every game they win is a close one and then they keep dropping a game after winning one...this team could split wide open like a rotted melon, and they won't wait until Week 17 like they did in 2010. They'll do it more like Week 7.

yep...i agree...this thing will blow up like top 5 pick in 2012 blow up...

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 03:27 PM
as for ryan mallet mayock again said yesterday that mallets a 1st round talent who will go in round 2 cause of too many red flags off the field...he said he's less clean a prospect off the field than cam newton

there's got to be some meat on that off field issues bone with ryan mallet that we don't have access to...got to be

SCOTTY
04-05-2011, 03:30 PM
yep...i agree...this thing will blow up like top 5 pick in 2012 blow up...

If we fill all our holes in this draft and you you say happens...hmmmm. Is that that terrible?? Let's go ahead and look at the QBs next year that we can make a move on being in the top 5 :) don't get me wrong, I DON"T want to lose. But your scenerio is not a bad one.

SCOTTY
04-05-2011, 03:31 PM
i feel ya on hilliard while servicable to me he's always been jag...murray is off my board...upright running style doesn't make guys miss in space shoe string tackled too much always dinged up in college...not gonna run inside in the pros no thanks...

with ingram if i had access to his medicals and could see that there is no concern with ingrams knee hell yeah i'd be on him...its either him or mallet for me if he's healthy...i'm not gonna let a mike lombardi report influence my own medical results...screw that

but i think a healthy mark ingram is once every 5 years special...so it is what it is...that kids special on tape

I have ZERO confidence in Miami's medical staff. Brees-nuff said. Still haven't recovered from that one!

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 03:33 PM
If we fill all our holes in this draft and you you say happens...hmmmm. Is that that terrible?? Let's go ahead and look at the QBs next year that we can make a move on being in the top 5 :) don't get me wrong, I DON"T want to lose. But your scenerio is not a bad one.

if we're gonna lose i want the #1 pick next year...lose all out...ha ha...cause i want andrew luck...end of story...cks right though...nfl defenses have figured out chad henne and after 2 years of watching him play i think many of us have also...and the players and staff have no faith in him...if henne starts in 2011 it will be because sparano and company had no other choice

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 04:02 PM
as for ryan mallet mayock again said yesterday that mallets a 1st round talent who will go in round 2 cause of too many red flags off the field...he said he's less clean a prospect off the field than cam newton

there's got to be some meat on that off field issues bone with ryan mallet that we don't have access to...got to be

There is. But at the same time, there's not a consensus on how to treat that big, unmentionable issue.

After Peter King saw our piece on Mallett and tweeted about it, he went ahead and consulted some of his own trusted sources about him, and wrote up a big piece on Mallett that affirmed basically everything we said. King said that his two general managers (that he trusts, and mentioned that he trusts several times) said they have no problems with Mallett off the field. They said there seems to be a clear line of demarcation between Mallett's time at Michigan, when he had trouble transitioning from big fish in a small pond to big fish in a big pond, and also was homesick and having trouble with the move, and Mallett's time at Arkansas where he was coached hard by Bobby Petrino, responded well to the hard coaching, was a very hard worker, and a good teammate.

I'm sure we can all figure out what that issue is, it's just a matter of how bad it is. I could see some old school NFL teams making a much bigger deal about certain things than need be. This is a talent-driven league. If you have the kind of talent that translates on Sundays then you've got an awful big ally in your corner looking out for you. That ally is the $9 billion machine, which will tend to support, forgive and forget anything done by someone that produces on the field. How else do you explain Brett Favre spending 6 weeks in rehab getting over a drug addiction, and never missing a beat in his Hall of Fame career? How else do you explain Ben Roethlisberger going to a Super Bowl the very same year he served a suspension for his contribution to a situation that led to his being accused of rape? How else do you explain Michael Vick being a convicted felon and getting congratulatory phone calls from the President of the United States as he goes on to play in a playoffs two years after finishing his prison sentence and only one year after the guy that rolled on him to federal investigators mysteriously "got shot" at Michael's birthday party minutes after having a heated physical confrontation with Michael? How else do you explain that nobody even bothers talking about how many people Phil Rivers or Jay Cutler rub the wrong way? They win football games, and all of these guys have the talent that translates on Sunday, and because of that this powerful machine works in their favor.

Ya know, the worst concrete thing Ryan Mallett ever had happen to him was getting arrested for being drunk in public. Despite what anyone has on Mallett privately as it relates to drugs or whatever, Ryan has yet to fail a drug test. His indiscretions pale in comparison with most of the guys I list above, the exceptions being Rivers and Cutler. But people obsess with Mallett's "rubbing people the wrong way". For some reason, the same behavior out of Rivers and Cutler is simply ignored.

Unless he's a psycho, what matters is that the guy can command a huddle (which he did, at Arkansas), can take to coaching (and he was coached by the Nazi'est of quarterbacks coaches, a Coughlin-ite), is a film junkie and understands pro offenses and pro reads, and then he has the pure talent to translate the practice week onto the field on Sundays. The rest won't matter because the NFL won't LET the rest matter.

spydertl79
04-05-2011, 04:29 PM
There is. But at the same time, there's not a consensus on how to treat that big, unmentionable issue.

After Peter King saw our piece on Mallett and tweeted about it, he went ahead and consulted some of his own trusted sources about him, and wrote up a big piece on Mallett that affirmed basically everything we said. King said that his two general managers (that he trusts, and mentioned that he trusts several times) said they have no problems with Mallett off the field. They said there seems to be a clear line of demarcation between Mallett's time at Michigan, when he had trouble transitioning from big fish in a small pond to big fish in a big pond, and also was homesick and having trouble with the move, and Mallett's time at Arkansas where he was coached hard by Bobby Petrino, responded well to the hard coaching, was a very hard worker, and a good teammate.

I'm sure we can all figure out what that issue is, it's just a matter of how bad it is. I could see some old school NFL teams making a much bigger deal about certain things than need be. This is a talent-driven league. If you have the kind of talent that translates on Sundays then you've got an awful big ally in your corner looking out for you. That ally is the $9 billion machine, which will tend to support, forgive and forget anything done by someone that produces on the field. How else do you explain Brett Favre spending 6 weeks in rehab getting over a drug addiction, and never missing a beat in his Hall of Fame career? How else do you explain Ben Roethlisberger going to a Super Bowl the very same year he served a suspension for his contribution to a situation that led to his being accused of rape? How else do you explain Michael Vick being a convicted felon and getting congratulatory phone calls from the President of the United States as he goes on to play in a playoffs two years after finishing his prison sentence and only one year after the guy that rolled on him to federal investigators mysteriously "got shot" at Michael's birthday party minutes after having a heated physical confrontation with Michael? How else do you explain that nobody even bothers talking about how many people Phil Rivers or Jay Cutler rub the wrong way? They win football games, and all of these guys have the talent that translates on Sunday, and because of that this powerful machine works in their favor.

Ya know, the worst concrete thing Ryan Mallett ever had happen to him was getting arrested for being drunk in public. Despite what anyone has on Mallett privately as it relates to drugs or whatever, Ryan has yet to fail a drug test. His indiscretions pale in comparison with most of the guys I list above, the exceptions being Rivers and Cutler. But people obsess with Mallett's "rubbing people the wrong way". For some reason, the same behavior out of Rivers and Cutler is simply ignored.

Unless he's a psycho, what matters is that the guy can command a huddle (which he did, at Arkansas), can take to coaching (and he was coached by the Nazi'est of quarterbacks coaches, a Coughlin-ite), is a film junkie and understands pro offenses and pro reads, and then he has the pure talent to translate the practice week onto the field on Sundays. The rest won't matter because the NFL won't LET the rest matter.
Great post. The point about Mallett passing drug tests doesn't really matter... Cocaine leaves the body very quickly. Hell, Charlie Sheen passed a drug test a week after being hospitalized.

Aqua and Orange
04-05-2011, 04:35 PM
But people obsess with Mallett's "rubbing people the wrong way". For some reason, the same behavior out of Rivers and Cutler is simply ignored.


Exactly. Talent trumps personality hiccups sometimes...I would HATE to have a douche like Phillip Rivers as a friend or work colleague, but as an NFL fan I would kill to have him in command of my team.

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 04:46 PM
so the coke stuff is legit...whats the kid gonna do when he's got $10 mil in his pocket??? wealthy mans drug with a newly wealthy man...tough one to call

SCOTTY
04-05-2011, 04:56 PM
so the coke stuff is legit...whats the kid gonna do when he's got $10 mil in his pocket??? wealthy mans drug with a newly wealthy man...tough one to call

A coke problem + millions of $$ + Miami = DISASTER

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 04:59 PM
A coke problem + millions of $$ + Miami = DISASTER

that would be my thoughts as well...i don't know many guys who just experimented when it came to that...and add miami to the mix...its like showing a chocolate river to augustus in charlie and the chocolate factory

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 05:00 PM
so the coke stuff is legit...whats the kid gonna do when he's got $10 mil in his pocket??? wealthy mans drug with a newly wealthy man...tough one to call

I didn't say the coke stuff is legit. Drugs doesn't mean cocaine. When he was arrested the cops claimed they smelled pot on him (they pretty much always say that, in my experience, regardless of whether it's true). That could just easily been what he confessed to teams.

A lot of teams consider the QB position to be different. They can stomach a pothead at any other position, just about, but they can't stomach that in a quarterback. Very old school.

SCOTTY
04-05-2011, 05:03 PM
that would be my thoughts as well...

Would it really be so bad to go safe in the draft this year? I know in the past we have done it and past on some great players. But we knew they were going to be great! I just don't see it in this years draft and actual hope they go safe. I am praying for us to trade down, get back in the second and then get a real reliable player that will fill a hole on our team in the first (Oline-I know not sexy). Grab a RB in the 2nd or 3rd. Go QB NEXT year.

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 05:04 PM
Would it really be so bad to go safe in the draft this year? I know in the past we have done it and past on some great players. But we knew they were going to be great! I just don't see it in this years draft and actual hope they go safe. I am praying for us to trade down, get back in the second and then get a real reliable player that will fill a hole on our team in the first (Oline-I know not sexy). Grab a RB in the 2nd or 3rd. Go QB NEXT year.

If you really don't mind losing a lot of football games, no it wouldn't be so bad.

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 05:06 PM
I didn't say the coke stuff is legit. Drugs doesn't mean cocaine. When he was arrested the cops claimed they smelled pot on him (they pretty much always say that, in my experience, regardless of whether it's true). That could just easily been what he confessed to teams.

A lot of teams consider the QB position to be different. They can stomach a pothead at any other position, just about, but they can't stomach that in a quarterback. Very old school.

well there's been more than just rumors of marijauna with him and drugs...i wouldn't think pot would take a kid off of teams boards unless he was a stoner...maybe i jumped the gun...but maybe i didn't

if the nfl took all the guys who smoked pot in college and took them off their boards there'd barely be enough room to field a starting roster...the nba would be bare ha ha

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 05:07 PM
Would it really be so bad to go safe in the draft this year? I know in the past we have done it and past on some great players. But we knew they were going to be great! I just don't see it in this years draft and actual hope they go safe. I am praying for us to trade down, get back in the second and then get a real reliable player that will fill a hole on our team in the first (Oline-I know not sexy). Grab a RB in the 2nd or 3rd. Go QB NEXT year.

i hate safe...safe is what gets you a roster full of average football talent...

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 05:10 PM
ck any possibility that the big name player who failed the drug test at the combine was ryan mallet??? i know it has been confirmed that someone did but i haven't heard who...not even rumors of who

SCOTTY
04-05-2011, 05:14 PM
If you really don't mind losing a lot of football games, no it wouldn't be so bad.

You are assuming that a revamped Oline, a Really good RB and TE and a new OC (who will come ready to make his name) will automatically result in losses? Why? We were 7 points away from a 10-6 season last year. Don't get me wrong, I am not a Henne fan. But how much of it was him and how much was Grandpa? Hypothetical. We get those 7 points and end 10-6. Do you still want Henne out?

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 05:17 PM
Great post. The point about Mallett passing drug tests doesn't really matter... Cocaine leaves the body very quickly. Hell, Charlie Sheen passed a drug test a week after being hospitalized.

ha ha...its not about passing it out of the body...its mallet turns into a charlie sheen while supposed to be the face of your franchise...

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 05:32 PM
well there's been more than just rumors of marijauna with him and drugs...i wouldn't think pot would take a kid off of teams boards unless he was a stoner...maybe i jumped the gun...but maybe i didn't

if the nfl took all the guys who smoked pot in college and took them off their boards there'd barely be enough room to field a starting roster...the nba would be bare ha ha

Like I said, there are a lot of older school guys out there that just plain view the quarterback position to be different. They could draft a pothead in the 1st round at any other position, but they're not having it at quarterback.

If it were cocaine, and they thought of him as being cocaine addicted, you tell me...who would even draft him in the 2nd round? That's where people are talking about him going, the late 1st or maybe 2nd round. Who would draft a guy everyone knows is a full on cokehead in the late 1st round?

It may be a bigger deal than just "I once smoked pot"...but it's DEFINITELY a smaller deal than "We know he's addicted to cocaine."

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 05:36 PM
ck any possibility that the big name player who failed the drug test at the combine was ryan mallet??? i know it has been confirmed that someone did but i haven't heard who...not even rumors of who

I suppose it's very possible but it's very low odds because Pro Football Talk knows who it is (they won't say) and they've had confirmation from their sources that whoever it is will not sink very far because of it. Does that sound like Ryan Mallett to you? It just doesn't seem to fit, at all, to me. As things stand Ryan Mallett wasn't set to be a premium prospect, and as right now he's set to go 2nd round (according to most) then he doesn't fit the description of his positive drug test not affecting his draft stock.

I've been thinking A.J. Green. You have to be awfully dumb to fail a drug test at the Combine. And A.J. Green scored like dangerously low on the wonderlic, like the kind of low where you wonder if he can even do simple stuff on his own like open a checking account.

SCOTTY
04-05-2011, 05:38 PM
I suppose it's very possible but it's very low odds because Pro Football Talk knows who it is (they won't say) and they've had confirmation from their sources that whoever it is will not sink very far because of it. Does that sound like Ryan Mallett to you? It just doesn't seem to fit, at all, to me. As things stand Ryan Mallett wasn't set to be a premium prospect, and as right now he's set to go 2nd round (according to most) then he doesn't fit the description of his positive drug test not affecting his draft stock.

I've been thinking A.J. Green. You have to be awfully dumb to fail a drug test at the Combine. And A.J. Green scored like dangerously low on the wonderlic, like the kind of low where you wonder if he can even do simple stuff on his own like open a checking account.

Hilariously True.

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 05:43 PM
You are assuming that a revamped Oline, a Really good RB and TE and a new OC (who will come ready to make his name) will automatically result in losses? Why? We were 7 points away from a 10-6 season last year. Don't get me wrong, I am not a Henne fan. But how much of it was him and how much was Grandpa? Hypothetical. We get those 7 points and end 10-6. Do you still want Henne out?

We were also only a few points and a few lucky breaks away from 4-12 last year. People tend to conveniently forget that, as if the expectation is that whenever it's close or the game comes down to a lucky break or weird bounce of the ball, you should always 100% come out on the winning end of those. Fact of the matter is, it's usually about halfway when it comes down to those things. Miami was what it's record says they were.

If they have the same quarterback, how are they better? A revamped OL doesn't mean a better one. And I haven't seen much "revamping" going on yet, I just see the same people re-signed back onto the team. You get rid of Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams, maybe you get better at that spot. But, how do you know? Maybe you get worse, too. Add a rookie TE as your #2 TE? Great, yeah that's a positive development, but a VERY minor one.

You're forgetting how the season ended. The season ended with Miami dropping a bunch of games and then GIVING UP DISGRACEFULLY in week 17. What have they done since then to inspire those players in that locker room to do any different than they did in Week 17 when they suffered the most embarrassing defeat since 62-7? What do the players have to believe in? The same head coach. The same GM. The same quarterback. The same philosophy. A new offensive coordinator that coordinated one of the worst offenses in football the last two years. WOW, if that isn't a sh-tburger served on fecal toast, then I don't know what is.

You're not really accounting at all for the team's commitment level and locker room unity. How much they do or do not believe in each other is critical, and several players have showed they do not believe in Chad Henne, both offensive and defensive. You HAVE to remember how they ended the season, in total disarray, giving up on one another...NOT bought in to the system. That's how they ended the season. That's how they still are, and that's how they'll remain, until...when? What have you done to make them think anything is different?

SCOTTY
04-05-2011, 05:57 PM
We were also only a few points and a few lucky breaks away from 4-12 last year. People tend to conveniently forget that, as if the expectation is that whenever it's close or the game comes down to a lucky break or weird bounce of the ball, you should always 100% come out on the winning end of those. Fact of the matter is, it's usually about halfway when it comes down to those things. Miami was what it's record says they were.

If they have the same quarterback, how are they better? A revamped OL doesn't mean a better one. And I haven't seen much "revamping" going on yet, I just see the same people re-signed back onto the team. You get rid of Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams, maybe you get better at that spot. But, how do you know? Maybe you get worse, too. Add a rookie TE as your #2 TE? Great, yeah that's a positive development, but a VERY minor one.

You're forgetting how the season ended. The season ended with Miami dropping a bunch of games and then GIVING UP DISGRACEFULLY in week 17. What have they done since then to inspire those players in that locker room to do any different than they did in Week 17 when they suffered the most embarrassing defeat since 62-7? What do the players have to believe in? The same head coach. The same GM. The same quarterback. The same philosophy. A new offensive coordinator that coordinated one of the worst offenses in football the last two years. WOW, if that isn't a sh-tburger served on fecal toast, then I don't know what is.

You're not really accounting at all for the team's commitment level and locker room unity. How much they do or do not believe in each other is critical, and several players have showed they do not believe in Chad Henne, both offensive and defensive. You HAVE to remember how they ended the season, in total disarray, giving up on one another...NOT bought in to the system. That's how they ended the season. That's how they still are, and that's how they'll remain, until...when? What have you done to make them think anything is different?

Seriously, and Mallett changes all that??? Very doubtful. What you described I don't beleive falls on Henne. I put just about 100% of that on Sparano and Henning. There is no way in hell I blame Henne for everything you state here. No way.
No, I did not convienently forget the close games we won. And no I don't think that all close games should go our way. I simply asked a hypothetical(that you did not answer). Yes our record is what it is. That was not the point.
And yes, I believe drafting one of the best linemen will make our line better (by far in my opinion Oline was this teams weakest link), getting a RB like Leshoure will make our backfield better, getting a TE that can catch will make our team better(plus Daboll is wanting a run an O like NE-that requires 2 TEs), putting Henne in a new system with a driven OC will make him better. I think all this makes our team better AND Henne better.

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 06:13 PM
Like I said, there are a lot of older school guys out there that just plain view the quarterback position to be different. They could draft a pothead in the 1st round at any other position, but they're not having it at quarterback.

If it were cocaine, and they thought of him as being cocaine addicted, you tell me...who would even draft him in the 2nd round? That's where people are talking about him going, the late 1st or maybe 2nd round. Who would draft a guy everyone knows is a full on cokehead in the late 1st round?

It may be a bigger deal than just "I once smoked pot"...but it's DEFINITELY a smaller deal than "We know he's addicted to cocaine."

so pretty much the guy may be an occasional pot smoker...yeah...i'm not dropping the guy a round for that...although i wouldn't put it past our stone age head coach and mindset and philosophy to have mallet completely off our boards

its crazy to me that these head coaches would rather be fired than take a qb that may burn one every once in while despite all his football talents...

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 06:15 PM
We were also only a few points and a few lucky breaks away from 4-12 last year. People tend to conveniently forget that, as if the expectation is that whenever it's close or the game comes down to a lucky break or weird bounce of the ball, you should always 100% come out on the winning end of those. Fact of the matter is, it's usually about halfway when it comes down to those things. Miami was what it's record says they were.

If they have the same quarterback, how are they better? A revamped OL doesn't mean a better one. And I haven't seen much "revamping" going on yet, I just see the same people re-signed back onto the team. You get rid of Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams, maybe you get better at that spot. But, how do you know? Maybe you get worse, too. Add a rookie TE as your #2 TE? Great, yeah that's a positive development, but a VERY minor one.

You're forgetting how the season ended. The season ended with Miami dropping a bunch of games and then GIVING UP DISGRACEFULLY in week 17. What have they done since then to inspire those players in that locker room to do any different than they did in Week 17 when they suffered the most embarrassing defeat since 62-7? What do the players have to believe in? The same head coach. The same GM. The same quarterback. The same philosophy. A new offensive coordinator that coordinated one of the worst offenses in football the last two years. WOW, if that isn't a sh-tburger served on fecal toast, then I don't know what is.

You're not really accounting at all for the team's commitment level and locker room unity. How much they do or do not believe in each other is critical, and several players have showed they do not believe in Chad Henne, both offensive and defensive. You HAVE to remember how they ended the season, in total disarray, giving up on one another...NOT bought in to the system. That's how they ended the season. That's how they still are, and that's how they'll remain, until...when? What have you done to make them think anything is different?

exactly

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 06:17 PM
I suppose it's very possible but it's very low odds because Pro Football Talk knows who it is (they won't say) and they've had confirmation from their sources that whoever it is will not sink very far because of it. Does that sound like Ryan Mallett to you? It just doesn't seem to fit, at all, to me. As things stand Ryan Mallett wasn't set to be a premium prospect, and as right now he's set to go 2nd round (according to most) then he doesn't fit the description of his positive drug test not affecting his draft stock.

I've been thinking A.J. Green. You have to be awfully dumb to fail a drug test at the Combine. And A.J. Green scored like dangerously low on the wonderlic, like the kind of low where you wonder if he can even do simple stuff on his own like open a checking account.

i hadn't heard the part about it won't hurt whoever tested positive...aj green does make sense...i'd still take him without hesitation...top 5 no problem...come on down

Finfanforever
04-05-2011, 06:56 PM
I hope Miami is just putting on some smokescreen about wanting everything but a quarterbacks.

I know they're trying to convince people of that. They're trying particularly hard to convince people they do NOT want Ryan Mallett, even though they've spent an awful lot of time with him. And this is verified by people I know, the Dolphins are putting the word out that they have zero interest in Ryan Mallett. None. Zip. Honestly. Absolutely no interest in the guy we've seen three or four times and will continue to see again in a week. No, really. He's just here because...oh, I dunno, who invited him again? Wasn't it just so that we'd have someone to throw to D.J. Williams? Yeah, that was it. Honest.


CK, I think Miami gambles...trades down into the 20's, picks up a second rounder and drafts Mallett in the 20's. What say you...too much of a gamble?

Finfanforever
04-05-2011, 07:01 PM
We were also only a few points and a few lucky breaks away from 4-12 last year. People tend to conveniently forget that, as if the expectation is that whenever it's close or the game comes down to a lucky break or weird bounce of the ball, you should always 100% come out on the winning end of those. Fact of the matter is, it's usually about halfway when it comes down to those things. Miami was what it's record says they were.

If they have the same quarterback, how are they better? A revamped OL doesn't mean a better one. And I haven't seen much "revamping" going on yet, I just see the same people re-signed back onto the team. You get rid of Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams, maybe you get better at that spot. But, how do you know? Maybe you get worse, too. Add a rookie TE as your #2 TE? Great, yeah that's a positive development, but a VERY minor one.

You're forgetting how the season ended. The season ended with Miami dropping a bunch of games and then GIVING UP DISGRACEFULLY in week 17. What have they done since then to inspire those players in that locker room to do any different than they did in Week 17 when they suffered the most embarrassing defeat since 62-7? What do the players have to believe in? The same head coach. The same GM. The same quarterback. The same philosophy. A new offensive coordinator that coordinated one of the worst offenses in football the last two years. WOW, if that isn't a sh-tburger served on fecal toast, then I don't know what is.

You're not really accounting at all for the team's commitment level and locker room unity. How much they do or do not believe in each other is critical, and several players have showed they do not believe in Chad Henne, both offensive and defensive. You HAVE to remember how they ended the season, in total disarray, giving up on one another...NOT bought in to the system. That's how they ended the season. That's how they still are, and that's how they'll remain, until...when? What have you done to make them think anything is different?

bingo..you nailed it again CK...reliving it...I still can't believe Sparano wasn't fired!

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 08:10 PM
Seriously, and Mallett changes all that??? Very doubtful. What you described I don't beleive falls on Henne. I put just about 100% of that on Sparano and Henning. There is no way in hell I blame Henne for everything you state here. No way.
No, I did not convienently forget the close games we won. And no I don't think that all close games should go our way. I simply asked a hypothetical(that you did not answer). Yes our record is what it is. That was not the point.
And yes, I believe drafting one of the best linemen will make our line better (by far in my opinion Oline was this teams weakest link), getting a RB like Leshoure will make our backfield better, getting a TE that can catch will make our team better(plus Daboll is wanting a run an O like NE-that requires 2 TEs), putting Henne in a new system with a driven OC will make him better. I think all this makes our team better AND Henne better.

Not in one year he doesn't but a 1st round quarterback with big time talent that everyone can see on the practice field DOES put a little extra pep in peoples step and gives the fans reasons to be hopeful. You KNOW that's true. I'm sitting here in Tampa and witnessed it 1st hand. The fans were ready to completely give up on the Glazers. Josh Freeman brought them back.

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 08:18 PM
CK, I think Miami gambles...trades down into the 20's, picks up a second rounder and drafts Mallett in the 20's. What say you...too much of a gamble?

I think too much of a gamble but kudos to them if they have the intel (and balls) necessary to pull that off and have it come off right.

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 08:27 PM
beware seattle at #25 if you want mallet and trade back...make that trade back in front of pick #25 or be prepared for your cookies to be stolen...anywhere in the 20's you are leaving yourself in that range where the top teams of round 2 can get back into round 1 and trump you...mallet and ponder both could be scooped up right under your nose

its a qb...i wouldn't beat around the bush too much trying to get cute...be prepared to strike

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 08:29 PM
beware seattle at #25 if you want mallet and trade back...make that trade back in front of pick #25 or be prepared for your cookies to be stolen...anywhere in the 20's you are leaving yourself in that range where the top teams of round 2 can get back into round 1 and trump you...mallet and ponder both could be scooped up right under your nose

its a qb...i wouldn't beat around the bush too much trying to get cute...be prepared to strike

That's what I think. As things stand it may already be a situation where the Dolphins would be lucky if Mallett makes it to #15.

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 08:32 PM
That's what I think. As things stand it may already be a situation where the Dolphins would be lucky if Mallett makes it to #15.

i agree...minnesota is starving for a qb...if your rick spielman you better find one asap...i think they're who we have to worry about in front of us...spielmans GOT TO find a qb

its a chance if i was him i'd be willing to take...

hooshoops
04-05-2011, 08:42 PM
my thought would be if mallet is the target and you are gonna trade back go back to #20 max and pick up a 3rd out of it and pull the trigger...and hope the jags don't love mallet at #16...a chance i'd take though...i think they're gonna be all over 4-3 end at #16

i can really see tampa wanting to come up for a 4-3 end should aldon smith bowers and kerrigan be there...and they may want to trump the jags for the preference of player at the position

AZStryker
04-05-2011, 09:48 PM
I really just don't think our front office is smart enough to take Mallet at 15. In fact, I imagine the only way we take a QB not named Gabbert or Newton in round 1 is if Ross made it a condition of employment.

MP-Omnis
04-05-2011, 10:18 PM
Kirwin's draft is a pipe dream. Right now Houston is playing Jason Allen. You think they're going to pass on Prince Amukamara for Ryan Kerrigan? LOL.

bdhock
04-05-2011, 11:00 PM
not a fan of jimmy johnson, but he said being good is the biggest obstacle to being great, we could be safe and maybe good by drafting a Rb or OL and maybe Henne improves or we sign a free agent we could be 10-6 and maybe fight for a wild card.I think to go to the next level we need our QB that we draft and we develop. look at the best AFC teams year after year. Colts, patriots, steelers. they drafted there Qb and developed them. I say we draft Mallett at 15, If henne proves us wrong and becomes a great QB,good. You can get RB. OG TE WR in free agency a Qb is different. ( Drew Brees is the exception)

Dogbone34
04-05-2011, 11:30 PM
i asked a viking about taking mallet and he thought i was insane

i was like what? cough, cough, cough, cough

quick i can't breathe, get me an oxygen mask

inhale
exhale


it's a smokescreen

nope, according to him they hate mallet and would never touch him

i'm still for mallet at #15.

however, aldon smith still makes me think, defense??

Mr. Magoo
04-05-2011, 11:48 PM
Yeah, I'm totally confused about Mallett's stock right now. There are plausible reasons to think he could be taken anywhere from #5 (though I think #8 to Tennessee is a better fit) to the top of the 2nd. I can't think of another top prospect with that big of a window at this moment. Locker is another guy with a potentially big range but it seems pretty clear after how sparsely his pro day was attended that Locker isn't a serious contender for the 1st round. Nor do I consider him a "top prospect" by any means. It's just that others do.

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 12:18 PM
With Ryan Mallett I agree with you because if a team took him at #8 overall, I could see why they'd do that, but if nobody took him until the 2nd round, I could also see exactly why they did that.

With Locker though, if someone took him that high, I just have zero clue why they'd do that. The talent just isn't there. Quarterback talent is not measured by arm strength, it isn't measured by speed or athleticism. It's measured by accuracy, vision, and your natural ability to throw the football and put it places where you want that football to be. On that basis, Jake Locker is no better than 4th round pick.

Aqua and Orange
04-06-2011, 02:22 PM
I really just don't think our front office is smart enough to take Mallet at 15. In fact, I imagine the only way we take a QB not named Gabbert or Newton in round 1 is if Ross made it a condition of employment.

I feel the same way and also see them passing on Christian Ponder if given the chance. I really hope I am wrong, but the track record is not good.