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View Full Version : Ryan Mallet thrilled with Dolphins workout (Radio interview answers)



NYPhin24
04-05-2011, 03:22 PM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/videobeta/?watchId=4f82e3c2-07ac-40fc-9477-df354e736c8a

Short sound clip of Mallet talking about the coaches and having a great classroom session, experience with Henne and Long at Michigan, having to compete with Henne if he came to Miami, wants to "help win Championships"

If someone can find the full interview please add on

Yessir
04-05-2011, 03:29 PM
Im sold. Get him here. Use #15 if you have to.

TRUDOLFAN54
04-05-2011, 03:30 PM
cool thanks for posting i love to hear that he loved his workout!!!

BostonPhin4
04-05-2011, 03:40 PM
Im sold. Get him here. Use #15 if you have to.


^^^this 1000x's

Even the scouts that rag on him don't dispute he has the most NFL ready arm in this draft. He also comes from an NFL style Offense which gives him a leg up on most of the competition. Yet he isn't considered a top 3 Qb in this draft by some?? Why?!? Because he used a little nose candy and is a big meanie head?

I have heard people question his work ethic but he has improved throughout his college career and that doesn't happen without putting in some work.

And what he isn't a great leader? Ask me how much of a s*** I give about that. The bears made it to the big game with Rex Grossman under center how great of a leader is he?

If you surround him with high character guys who can rub off on him he is an absolute steal at #15.

tical
04-05-2011, 03:53 PM
I swear if were in position to grab this guy and we don't!....arrggghhhhh i have a strong suspicion he is going to be one of the best if not thee best QB out of this class!

NYPhin24
04-05-2011, 04:00 PM
^^^this 1000x's

Even the scouts that rag on him don't dispute he has the most NFL ready arm in this draft. He also comes from an NFL style Offense which gives him a leg up on most of the competition. Yet he isn't considered a top 3 Qb in this draft by some?? Why?!? Because he used a little nose candy and is a big meanie head?

I have heard people question his work ethic but he has improved throughout his college career and that doesn't happen without putting in some work.

And what he isn't a great leader? Ask me how much of a s*** I give about that. The bears made it to the big game with Rex Grossman under center how great of a leader is he?

If you surround him with high character guys who can rub off on him he is an absolute steal at #15.

Agreed, i dont see what he is truly lacking, best arm of the draft class, great deep throw accuracy, good completion percentage, the main knock on him i see is "lead feet" and cant scramble or move in the pocket. Ive seen a lot of tape on Mallet and not just highlights where he is throwing on the run and moving outside the pocket completing passes, hes competitive by nature and knows he would have to compete with Henne again and im sure would love to prove he should be the start again

NYPhin24
04-05-2011, 04:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBQVNQXrSYE&feature=player_embedded

Clipse
04-05-2011, 04:23 PM
Let's hope the feeling was mutual with the Dolphins staff.

Built2Win
04-05-2011, 04:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBQVNQXrSYE&feature=player_embedded

i watched the video im still not sold on the guy
he made some decent throws under pressure
but when he had the chance to win in some of those games
he threw a interception at the end of the game
vs the buckeyes..i do think he is better than henne
but both will struggle without some new offensive line help..

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 04:29 PM
The Dolphins want everyone to know that they have zero interest in Ryan Mallett. They've been putting that out there since the Combine, telling people privately that they are not impressed with Mallett's personality and even going so far as to putting out the word that the only reason Mallett is invited to Davie is because they need someone to throw balls to D.J. Williams.

I smell smokescreen.

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 04:36 PM
i watched the video im still not sold on the guy
he made some decent throws under pressure
but when he had the chance to win in some of those games
he threw a interception at the end of the game
vs the buckeyes..i do think he is better than henne
but both will struggle without some new offensive line help..

For every game that ended like the Ohio State and Alabama games ended, with Mallett throwing an interception while trying to embark on game-winning drives, there were games like the Georgia game that were close and Mallett performed his best in crunch time.

For all the talk about the situation Mallett found himself in against Ohio State, if you look at the previous drive, that was a big crunch moment drive as well. They started 1st & 10 and Mallett played well on the drive but a holding penalty and I believe a drop contributed to their punting with 4:30 left in the game, down 31-26. The only reason Arkansas got the ball back with 1:09 remaining at a spot where they had a LEGIT chance at a winning touchdown drive, was because of a punt block. Otherwise it would have been the PREVIOUS drive, the one marred by a holding penalty causing a 1st & 21, that would have been the real culprit.

And of course, if Mallett's WRs don't drop a ridiculous number of balls, Arkansas isn't down in the score to begin with.

JBinSD
04-05-2011, 04:38 PM
Agreed CK.

Mallett is the pick at #15. I really believe it is. The other scenario, which I've said before -- is Andy Reid trades #23 to Miami to grab a lineman that he likes like Carimi, and Miami takes Mallett at #23.

twg76
04-05-2011, 04:41 PM
The reason I'm against it is because these guys already have history competing against each other. Henne won that competition, so why would we think he would beat Henne this time? And even if he could, would it make the Dolphins better? I think it would bring in more DRAMA. We don't need that

Miami has to pick RB or QB with the #15 pick. If Ingram is there, you take him because he will come in and give you something to build the ground game around. He should be able to put up some good stats in his first season. The guy is a football player. Period. If Ingram is gone, you have to go with a QB that you feel can beat out Henne or push Henne passed whatever is holding him back right now from being great. Because anything less than one of those two things will be 7 - 9 and no playoffs. Maybe worse without an established run game.

So if Ingram is gone, you have to reach for Locker or Ponder. Trading down is still the best option. Trading up is foolishness.

NYPhin24
04-05-2011, 04:48 PM
The reason I'm against it is because these guys already have history competing against each other. Henne won that competition, so why would we think he would beat Henne this time? And even if he could, would it make the Dolphins better? I think it would bring in more DRAMA. We don't need that

Miami has to pick RB or QB with the #15 pick. If Ingram is there, you take him because he will come in and give you something to build the ground game around. He should be able to put up some good stats in his first season. The guy is a football player. Period. If Ingram is gone, you have to go with a QB that you feel can beat out Henne or push Henne passed whatever is holding him back right now from being great. Because anything less than one of those two things will be 7 - 9 and no playoffs. Maybe worse without an established run game.

So if Ingram is gone, you have to reach for Locker or Ponder. Trading down is still the best option. Trading up is foolishness.

Wasnt Henne a Senior and Mallet a freshman?

SCOTTY
04-05-2011, 04:53 PM
i watched the video im still not sold on the guy
he made some decent throws under pressure
but when he had the chance to win in some of those games
he threw a interception at the end of the game
vs the buckeyes..i do think he is better than henne
but both will struggle without some new offensive line help..

Ok, I was able to get through 6 minutes of it...Does it get any better than the first 6 minutes???? Wow, I was not a fan of this guy before and this video backs why we shouldn't pick him. All I saw was terrible decision making. Yes, he was able to avoid the first guy and was able to scramble outside the tackels but I did not see him follow up once with a completed pass! Did anyone else seee his throwing motion as well. Yeah he has a cannon but he has to load it from below his hips!

fins_rock
04-05-2011, 04:55 PM
There is no chance we pick a QB in rd 1 unless we trade down.

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 05:08 PM
Ok, I was able to get through 6 minutes of it...Does it get any better than the first 6 minutes???? Wow, I was not a fan of this guy before and this video backs why we shouldn't pick him. All I saw was terrible decision making. Yes, he was able to avoid the first guy and was able to scramble outside the tackels but I did not see him follow up once with a completed pass! Did anyone else seee his throwing motion as well. Yeah he has a cannon but he has to load it from below his hips!

No offense but if that's all you saw, I question whether you knew what you were seeing.

twg76
04-05-2011, 05:08 PM
Wasnt Henne a Senior and Mallet a freshman?

Ok. So now they are both "men" or "professionals". But they still have a history together where Mallet followed Henne and eventually was pushed out. I would rather bring in a QB that has no history competing with Henne. It's not personal. And the best QB wins the starting job. A free agent would do that. And a hungry rookie in this draft wouldn't back down from Henne either. So I want Miami to get one of those options: a free agent who will have no reservations about pushing Henne off the starting position OR a hungry rookie who won't back off Henne until he wins the starting job.

I don't believe Mallett is that guy. And I believe that it would force Henne passed whatever block he has right now. So it's a winning situation for Miami. Either Henne grows and starts making big throws to win games, or someone else does. And Henne could still be our back-up because he knows the offense.

phinfan2003
04-05-2011, 05:10 PM
I hope he somehow falls out of the first 2 rounds and we trade up in the 3rd to get him (assuming we can't acquire an extra 2nd round pick). He's my favorite of the QB's but it sounds like his stock is falling and could be had outside of the first round. Would be quite the steal in the 3rd round.

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 05:13 PM
The reason I'm against it is because these guys already have history competing against each other. Henne won that competition, so why would we think he would beat Henne this time?

Anyone is free to not like Ryan Mallett and/or not like him for Miami. But some of the reasoning behind that is just...wrong. I mean, you're talking about Chad Henne as a senior that had brought the Wolverines to a National Championship Game as a mere freshman, versus Ryan Mallett who was a true freshman. A true freshman versus a 4th year starter that had National Championship Game experience. Really? That's your reasoning? That Ryan Mallett as a true freshman couldn't beat Chad Henne the 4th year starter? Come on, man. You know that's not valid.


And even if he could, would it make the Dolphins better? I think it would bring in more DRAMA. We don't need that

Would it make the Dolphins better to have a better quarterback starting for them? Yeah. Unequivocally better. What's with the give-up mentality? It's like the Dolphins have sucked so bad that you've lost the will to be better, gone all existential on us!

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 05:18 PM
Ok. So now they are both "men" or "professionals". But they still have a history together where Mallet followed Henne and eventually was pushed out. I would rather bring in a QB that has no history competing with Henne. It's not personal. And the best QB wins the starting job. A free agent would do that. And a hungry rookie in this draft wouldn't back down from Henne either. So I want Miami to get one of those options: a free agent who will have no reservations about pushing Henne off the starting position OR a hungry rookie who won't back off Henne until he wins the starting job.

I don't believe Mallett is that guy. And I believe that it would force Henne passed whatever block he has right now. So it's a winning situation for Miami. Either Henne grows and starts making big throws to win games, or someone else does. And Henne could still be our back-up because he knows the offense.

I'm sensing that you don't really know the accurate history between these two players. Ryan Mallett was recruited to Michigan the year Chad Henne was a senior, a 4th year starter that had National Championship Game experience. The idea, and Ryan Mallett knew this when he signed his letter of intent at Michigan, was to sit behind Chad Henne for one year (perhaps as a redshirt) and then when Henne left for the NFL, Mallett could have potentially three or four years of running Michigan's offense.

He was not "pushed out" because of Henne. Henne had absolutely nothing to do with it. Mallett served as Henne's backup in 2007 and even started three games as a true freshman when Henne got hurt, rather than redshirting the year.

Henne graduated, left for the NFL, and then Michigan fired Lloyd Carr and hired Rich Rodriguez. Rich Rodriguez runs the speed option, that's what he ran at West Virginia with Pat White and that's what he intended to bring to Michigan. That offense does not fit Ryan Mallett at all, and that is why Mallett left. It had absolutely nothing to do with Chad Henne, who was already gone to the NFL.

beanh8er
04-05-2011, 05:24 PM
Ok, I was able to get through 6 minutes of it...Does it get any better than the first 6 minutes???? Wow, I was not a fan of this guy before and this video backs why we shouldn't pick him. All I saw was terrible decision making. Yes, he was able to avoid the first guy and was able to scramble outside the tackels but I did not see him follow up once with a completed pass! Did anyone else seee his throwing motion as well. Yeah he has a cannon but he has to load it from below his hips!

So he has to load up to throw 50 yards do tell! Also he hit a lot of receivers right in the hands and completed many passes. His decision making will come and wasn't that bad.

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 05:26 PM
In that video for the record he hit something like 63% of the passes right on the receivers' hands.

SCOTTY
04-05-2011, 05:32 PM
No offense but if that's all you saw, I question whether you knew what you were seeing.

None taking. I see what I see and you see what you see. Much like why some teams will pass on him while other will take a chance on him. Honestly I'n on the fence with Mallett. I have not seen anything out there that says "WOW", including this video.

SCOTTY
04-05-2011, 05:34 PM
In that video for the record he hit something like 63% of the passes right on the receivers' hands.

saw several that hit defenders right in the hands to. So if you want to count passed dropped by receivers that should have been caught. Should you do the same for interceptions?

TrinidadDolfan
04-05-2011, 05:41 PM
Agreed CK.

Mallett is the pick at #15. I really believe it is. The other scenario, which I've said before -- is Andy Reid trades #23 to Miami to grab a lineman that he likes like Carimi, and Miami takes Mallett at #23.

No

Don't try and get "fancy", pick him at #15

take off the fancy shoes and get to work

I don't want anyone trying to "get cute"

I swear, if Marino himself was available, some fans would want us to trade back and hope he was there at #23

Enough of this bulls*!t already, just pick him at 15

Dammit

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 05:50 PM
saw several that hit defenders right in the hands to. So if you want to count passed dropped by receivers that should have been caught. Should you do the same for interceptions?

For the record no there were not "several" dropped interceptions. There was one. There was also a dropped touchdown in the end zone.

EDIT: Not trying to be snippy, but you're not going to know that video better than the person that created the video, that person being me.

ckparrothead
04-05-2011, 05:51 PM
No

Don't try and get "fancy", pick him at #15

take off the fancy shoes and get to work

I don't want anyone trying to "get cute"

I swear, if Marino himself was available, some fans would want us to trade back and hope he was there at #23

Enough of this bulls*!t already, just pick him at 15

Dammit

God, ain't that the truth.

JBinSD
04-05-2011, 05:54 PM
No

Don't try and get "fancy", pick him at #15

take off the fancy shoes and get to work

I don't want anyone trying to "get cute"

I swear, if Marino himself was available, some fans would want us to trade back and hope he was there at #23

Enough of this bulls*!t already, just pick him at 15

Dammit

I'm fine with that, too.

But the Jags, Pats, Giants, Chargers, Bucs, Chiefs, and Colts are a group of teams that are likely NOT going to draft him.

You are right in the sense that someone else could always trade back into the first and snag him, if that's the way it goes down. I see a lot of activity in the second half of the first round, like a lot of analysts have said.

JBinSD
04-05-2011, 05:56 PM
I personally value your opinion CK more than most analysts.

Most of these guys just go with the flow and don't do nearly as much homework as your group.

Let's grab him at #15.

phinsfan84
04-05-2011, 06:01 PM
Im usually in Cks corner but to me the Video posted here doesnt give me any real indications of Mallet being the guy we need to lead this team. HE is a good quarterback when he is in the pocket and has time to wind up and go through his reads. YEs there were far too many dropped passes in that video but there are also far too many times where the pressure is miss read and reacted to poorly by MAllet. HE panicked and would run into pressure rather than trust the pocket and take a step up or to the side and try to keep his eyes down field. Do i think he is a good prospepct yes. But drafting him in the first round in my opinion gives us Chad Henne and Henne Version 2.0 with slightly better tools but less experience

However I do want to thank CK for his videos they are all soooo helpful and imo the best out there

beanh8er
04-05-2011, 06:07 PM
Im usually in Cks corner but to me the Video posted here doesnt give me any real indications of Mallet being the guy we need to lead this team. HE is a good quarterback when he is in the pocket and has time to wind up and go through his reads. YEs there were far too many dropped passes in that video but there are also far too many times where the pressure is miss read and reacted to poorly by MAllet. HE panicked and would run into pressure rather than trust the pocket and take a step up or to the side and try to keep his eyes down field. Do i think he is a good prospepct yes. But drafting him in the first round in my opinion gives us Chad Henne and Henne Version 2.0 with slightly better tools but less experience

However I do want to thank CK for his videos they are all soooo helpful and imo the best out there
What? He rolled out when there was pressure up the middle and stepped up when getting edge rushed. He only left the pocket with pressure right on him (or if it was a designed rollout).

SCOTTY
04-05-2011, 06:14 PM
For the record no there were not "several" dropped interceptions. There was one. There was also a dropped touchdown in the end zone.

EDIT: Not trying to be snippy, but you're not going to know that video better than the person that created the video, that person being me.

I value your posts CK. Very few do their homework like you and the value of your posts are more than pretty much anyone elses on here. I don't view you as snippy.
There are time though where I feel you take the "what if" into account when they support your position and debunk them when they do not. You mention that 63% of the passed "hit a receivers hand". As if we should count them as a catch? Yet in another thread were we are talking you completely shoot down my hypothetical that we were 7 points away from a 10-6 record. Not being snippy either, just saying.

miamiron
04-05-2011, 06:30 PM
In that video for the record he hit something like 63% of the passes right on the receivers' hands.

Ive never seen so many passes dropped
by a group of wide receivers.....OH, yes I have

SR 7
04-05-2011, 07:07 PM
when you watch Mallet under pressure moving out of hte pocket his eyes are downfield. He doesn't put his head down and run into linemen like Henne does.

Casas9425
04-05-2011, 07:15 PM
Mallet's receivers at Arkansas were damn awful.

Built2Win
04-05-2011, 07:30 PM
Mallet's receivers at Arkansas were damn awful.

his running back looked good draft em

DrewStogs.
04-05-2011, 07:47 PM
as much as I LOVE Mallet, i almost don't want to get my hopes up on us drafting him because I know that I'm in for dissapointment if I do

FinAtic8480
04-05-2011, 08:18 PM
as much as I LOVE Mallet, i almost don't want to get my hopes up on us drafting him because I know that I'm in for dissapointment if I do

Perfectly said.

DNADD
04-05-2011, 10:40 PM
Ok, I was able to get through 6 minutes of it...Does it get any better than the first 6 minutes???? Wow, I was not a fan of this guy before and this video backs why we shouldn't pick him. All I saw was terrible decision making. Yes, he was able to avoid the first guy and was able to scramble outside the tackels but I did not see him follow up once with a completed pass! Did anyone else seee his throwing motion as well. Yeah he has a cannon but he has to load it from below his hips!

Scotty. How are we supposed to consider your opinion a credible one when you can't even finish watching a ten minute video? CK and Simon wrote a novella on this guy. Their article was well researched and incredibly detailed. You should read the paragraphs that correspond to these videos. I think it will enlighten you a little bit especially as it pertains to the "terrible decision making" you saw on the six minutes you watched.

NorthFLPhin
04-05-2011, 10:59 PM
I'll admit the video wasn't impressive as a highlight video however it was neither the point of the video or showing just highlights. All qb's are going to make mistakes, hell I think Peyton Manning and Tom Brady had at least one interception this year. Pressure is a part of the game, the question is how does the qb handle it. I'd rather see a qb try to make a play as opposed to panicking and throwing the ball out of bounds. Enough of the 3 second clock throw away, take a chance instead of throwing yours balls away. I'm not sure how much of that was coaching or Henne last year but I want to give the receivers a chance this year.

72champagne
04-05-2011, 11:31 PM
i'd rather trade down and pick up pouncey & wisniewski but if not i'd take a shot with mallet than waste #15 on a running back.

SR 7
04-05-2011, 11:36 PM
do you guys realize taht was NOT a highlight reel? It was showing how he handles pressure. Do you guys even watch/read the video or thread?

rev kev
04-05-2011, 11:46 PM
Not sure it is going to be Mallet but we need more QBs - but not a RB with pick no.15

Please Lord Tyrod Taylor in the latter latter half of the second day

philguim44
04-05-2011, 11:50 PM
Jeff Ireland's dream scenario

Trades down with Eagles for NO 23 and still picks Mallet
With his newly acquired second he picks D.J. Williams

Would you love this draft????????

Clipse
04-05-2011, 11:59 PM
Jeff Ireland's dream scenario

Trades down with Eagles for NO 23 and still picks Mallet
With his newly acquired second he picks D.J. Williams

Would you love this draft????????

I would love any draft that has us picking Newton, Mallett, or Ponder in round 1. Tired of seeing the most important position on a football team being ignored.

JerryD
04-06-2011, 12:02 AM
No

Don't try and get "fancy", pick him at #15

take off the fancy shoes and get to work

I don't want anyone trying to "get cute"

I swear, if Marino himself was available, some fans would want us to trade back and hope he was there at #23

Enough of this bulls*!t already, just pick him at 15

Dammit

This is a very good point!! However, hardly anyone in the entire NFL adheres to it.

They always want to play 'Liar's Poker' & gamble to get 'their guy' in the 'consensus group-think slot.'

Rarely ... someone does pick 'their guy' out of thin air ... then they are rediculed & called stupid/crazy.

You'd think since everyone ballyhoos their football smarts, their scouts, & their insider-relationships with college coaches ... they could just PICK THEIR GUY!!

Instead, everyone goes 'group-think' 'best available' ... the safe choice that screams "I"m clueless!!" lol

I just hope someone with the Dolphins ... has QB schmartz ... has gorilla balls ... and has a huge personality, ego, & mouth ... to snatch us a GOOD QB!!

Lord Of Miami
04-06-2011, 12:04 AM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/videobeta/?watchId=4f82e3c2-07ac-40fc-9477-df354e736c8a

Short sound clip of Mallet talking about the coaches and having a great classroom session, experience with Henne and Long at Michigan, having to compete with Henne if he came to Miami, wants to "help win Championships"

If someone can find the full interview please add on

The rest of the interview is on wqam's website. www.wqam.com (http://www.wqam.com)

and it's from 3-30.

newlownorder
04-06-2011, 12:22 AM
Mallett is very impressive on tape. He can make the throws, read the D, feel pressure and adjust as needed, gun arm, good mechanics....need to take this guy if available.

MarSly
04-06-2011, 12:37 AM
He looked a tad like Marino in his stance and his release.Hmm.Maybe in time he could be the guy.

MadDog 88
04-06-2011, 12:43 AM
The video that Universal Draft put together shows both the positives and negatives of Mallet, unlike most video clips that show only highlights. That 12 minutes reflects far more upside to Mallet then downside. I saw the three games at Michigan his freshman year and recall how impressive he looked. I was quite disappointed that RichRod was hired spelling the end of Mallet at Michigan. It's no coincidence that once he started at Arkansas, they greatly improved as a team.

The Dolphins may be putting up a smoke screen but quite honestly I don't see Mallet getting past #10. With the amount of teams picking in front of Miami that need a QB, it will be nothing short of luck if he makes it to 15. If he does and the Fins pass on him, it will be another wasted opportunity for a shot at a franchise QB.

greasyObnoxious
04-06-2011, 07:20 AM
Ive never seen so many passes dropped
by a group of wide receivers.....OH, yes I have

yeah, right, Mallett will feel right at home here

LouPhinFan
04-06-2011, 08:04 AM
If the Fins are putting up a smokescreen around this guy, then its a pretty poor one.

We don't really like the kid or his attitude, but we'll still work him out 3,124,476 times. But really we don't like him. Honest.

Chubby
04-06-2011, 08:23 AM
If the Fins are putting up a smokescreen around this guy, then its a pretty poor one.

We don't really like the kid or his attitude, but we'll still work him out 3,124,476 times. But really we don't like him. Honest.
lol, now that was one of the best quotes i have seen around here in some time.
Chubbs

clutch23
04-06-2011, 09:29 AM
This is a very good point!! However, hardly anyone in the entire NFL adheres to it.

They always want to play 'Liar's Poker' & gamble to get 'their guy' in the 'consensus group-think slot.'

Rarely ... someone does pick 'their guy' out of thin air ... then they are rediculed & called stupid/crazy.

You'd think since everyone ballyhoos their football smarts, their scouts, & their insider-relationships with college coaches ... they could just PICK THEIR GUY!!

Instead, everyone goes 'group-think' 'best available' ... the safe choice that screams "I"m clueless!!" lol

I just hope someone with the Dolphins ... has QB schmartz ... has gorilla balls ... and has a huge personality, ego, & mouth ... to snatch us a GOOD QB!!

+1

Look at the Jags last year when they took Tyson Alualu. The talking heads could have dropped a duece in their tighty whiteys. Turns out he was a great fit and a heck of a player.

chrisbaucom
04-06-2011, 09:52 AM
Don't really think Mallett will make it past Washington. Just my opinion, but Shannahan needs a QB now and I think Gabbert and Newton will be gone. Don't think he'll take Locker there, but you never know.

And I do think Mallett will be the best QB in this class by far, won't even be close in my opinion.

LouPhinFan
04-06-2011, 10:34 AM
lol, now that was one of the best quotes i have seen around here in some time.
Chubbs

I mean, really? Maybe you throw up a smokescreen after interviewing at the combine (common place), going to the pro day (common place), and then doing a private workout with both him and Williams. You can then say, hey we don't really like Mallett we really like Williams. But you don't, after all that, bring him down to Miami by himself and work him out.

Pay not attention to the QB behind the curtain.

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 10:49 AM
Don't really think Mallett will make it past Washington. Just my opinion, but Shannahan needs a QB now and I think Gabbert and Newton will be gone. Don't think he'll take Locker there, but you never know.

And I do think Mallett will be the best QB in this class by far, won't even be close in my opinion.

Mike Shanahan won't take Ryan Mallett. I'm pretty comfortable going on record with that one. It's just not in Shanahan's history, and he does have a pretty established history now of the kinds of quarterbacks he likes. Shanahan would love Cam Newton, Blaine Gabbert, maybe Jake Locker, maybe even Christian Ponder, but not Ryan Mallett. He likes a guy with a combination of good feet and a big arm. Mallett only has one of those. What you need to be able to do is Shanahan's offense is run the bootleg, and also to be able to sprint out on hand-offs to exchange points that are stretched a little further out than many other offenses would do it. That's a key to Shanahan's zone-based ground game. It's why John Elway was his archetype. It's why when he had the chance he traded for Jake Plummer in Denver, and then drafted Jay Cutler, and then traded for Donovan McNabb in Washington.

j-off-her-doll
04-06-2011, 11:06 AM
Mike Shanahan won't take Ryan Mallett. I'm pretty comfortable going on record with that one. It's just not in Shanahan's history, and he does have a pretty established history now of the kinds of quarterbacks he likes. Shanahan would love Cam Newton, Blaine Gabbert, maybe Jake Locker, maybe even Christian Ponder, but not Ryan Mallett. He likes a guy with a combination of good feet and a big arm. Mallett only has one of those. What you need to be able to do is Shanahan's offense is run the bootleg, and also to be able to sprint out on hand-offs to exchange points that are stretched a little further out than many other offenses would do it. That's a key to Shanahan's zone-based ground game. It's why John Elway was his archetype. It's why when he had the chance he traded for Jake Plummer in Denver, and then drafted Jay Cutler, and then traded for Donovan McNabb in Washington.

Exactly. I wouldn't be shocked to see Shanahan draft Locker at #10. He's the kind of guy he wants. It'd depend on how much talk there was of Locker going in the 1st, etc. I have this nagging feeling that someone will really overdraft Locker.

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 11:09 AM
yeah... i'm with ck...mallets not a fit for washington...now them trading out to a team who wants a qb in that slot is very very possible...that #10 picks been on sale since the combine evidently

i think if you want to secure yourself ryan mallet if your convinced he's the guy get to #10 by giving washington #15 and #79...they don't have a 3rd i think they'd take it and imo you get to #10 you got yourself ryan mallet

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 11:26 AM
I'll admit the video wasn't impressive as a highlight video however it was neither the point of the video or showing just highlights. All qb's are going to make mistakes, hell I think Peyton Manning and Tom Brady had at least one interception this year. Pressure is a part of the game, the question is how does the qb handle it. I'd rather see a qb try to make a play as opposed to panicking and throwing the ball out of bounds. Enough of the 3 second clock throw away, take a chance instead of throwing yours balls away. I'm not sure how much of that was coaching or Henne last year but I want to give the receivers a chance this year.

I agree with you for the most part but would like to point out that the video was not a highlight. I graded and clipped five games of Mallett's this year. Those games were the Georgia, Mississippi State, Texas A&M, Alabama and Ohio State games. That YouTube video literally held every single throw and scramble from those five games where Ryan Mallett was forced to move his feet due to pressure. I wasn't trying to show just good plays or just bad ones or some combination. It was all of it, to give people a sense for what Mallett does under pressure.

Keep in mind, plays under pressure, quarterbacks in the NFL average around 60.0 QB rating when put under pressure. Some are much lower, some are higher. Most, even the real good ones, are around that 60.0 mark. I'd say in college that Mallett's under pressure passing was higher than that QB rating, but that in the pros it'll probably be about average.

What you see if you dissect the pressure video CLOSELY (involves replay, slow motion, etc), which I have the ability to do because I created it and have all of the clips at my disposal whereas you can be limited a little if you're watching a YouTube video...is that Ryan Mallett has a very advanced sense for pocket pressure. He knows where blitzers are coming from and anticipates pressure based on what he knows of the blitz concept. He also has a sense for blocking breakdowns and can feel a player coming free before that player is already breathing down his neck. Because of this early warning system of his, he's able to enact plans to deal with the pressure. Sometimes that could be backing up and throwing off his back foot, sometimes that could be stepping aside and making the guy miss, other times it might be to rush the throw or otherwise change his motion to get the ball off to a hot read.

All in all though, his accuracy is about 65% when throwing these rushed throws. That doesn't mean he'll complete 65%, because players will drop the ball. But, he could complete that much, and that's a significant accuracy percentage when under pressure and being forced to throw early or with a changed motion, or otherwise off balance. I included the roll-out clips from those five games in there to show that whereas some people claim the primary issue on his accuracy is his being on the run...that's just not really the case. He was like 7 or 8 on those non-pressured roll-out throws, and the one incomplete was a drop.

Overall, I was very happy with his pressure video. If I put together videos of other quarterbacks under pressure coming out, it'd be very comparable. That's what people don't get. They want highlights. They want to see every pass be the guy ducking pressure, sprinting out and throwing 50 yards downfield for a touchdown. That's not football. That's fantasy.

j-off-her-doll
04-06-2011, 11:26 AM
yeah... i'm with ck...mallets not a fit for washington...now them trading out to a team who wants a qb in that slot is very very possible...that #10 picks been on sale since the combine evidently

i think if you want to secure yourself ryan mallet if your convinced he's the guy get to #10 by giving washington #15 and #79...they don't have a 3rd i think they'd take it and imo you get to #10 you got yourself ryan mallet

Know what's better than a franchise QB? Recouping your 2nd RD pick for the hell of it.

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 11:36 AM
If the Fins are putting up a smokescreen around this guy, then its a pretty poor one.

We don't really like the kid or his attitude, but we'll still work him out 3,124,476 times. But really we don't like him. Honest.

They have a LOT of people convinced. Jason La Canfora, Omar Kelly, even Peter King who in his recent piece about Mallett (which was inspired by our piece, for the record) pointed at the Dolphins as a team that would not necessarily buy a Ryan Mallett, but then pointed to several teams that could.

Key is, IF the Dolphins are really interested in Ryan Mallett, then they're hiding a tree in the forest, in addition to putting out private word that they don't like him. Yeah, they've seen him a bunch of times. But they've seen a lot of quarterbacks a bunch of times, from Nathan Enderle to Blaine Gabbert, Cam Newton, Christian Ponder, Colin Kaepernick and Tyrod Taylor. When you blanket the entire field at a position like that, you're hiding a tree in the forest.

What raises my eyebrow is the extent they appear to be going to try and proactively convince people they're not looking at Ryan Mallett. Telling people that the only reason Mallett is coming to visit is so that D.J. Williams has someone to throw the ball to him? Really? That's pretty suspicious, to me. Also suspicious that after they met with him at the Combine, sources put out word to various lOcal media that the Dolphins think Mallett's a jerk and don't like him. But then they continued on to see him at his Pro Day and invite him to Davie. That doesn't make sense to me.

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 11:37 AM
Know what's better than a franchise QB? Recouping your 2nd RD pick for the hell of it.

Especially so that you can use that 2nd round pick on either a defensive lineman that is not suited for your defensive scheme, or a tiny experimental wildcat player.

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 11:38 AM
i feel much better moving up to grab ryan mallet than i do moving back and taking christian ponder...i just think we are talking about 2 totally different level guys when it comes to upside and big play ability

i hate giving up the 3rd rounder but sitting around to #15 to me is dicey as heck...i think everyone knows miami wants a qb and i can see st louis being willing to trade out at #14 if julio jones is gone and us getting trumped...

its time to be proactive not reactive

greasyObnoxious
04-06-2011, 11:47 AM
its time to be proactive not reactive

you could argue it has been time for 15 years

Geordie
04-06-2011, 11:47 AM
I have to say I'm developing a bit of a man crush on the guy. I still think we should trade back and take our chances to pick him up late in the 1st, if he's not there Ponder will be and I would be more than happy with him as a consolation prize. But I'm pretty sure with the smear campaign that seems to be following him around, he'll be there for us as long was we are picking ahead of Seattle.

If no trade partner can be found, I would be disappointed if we picked anyone other than Mallet at 15.

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 11:47 AM
I'd like to be proactive too but so far we just haven't heard of Ryan Mallett making a shift up the draft boards...so I feel good about him at #15. I don't necessarily think the Dolphins are taking him, but I feel fairly good right now about him being there. We'll see, things could change.

j-off-her-doll
04-06-2011, 11:50 AM
I'm really high on Ponder. I love his skill set and see his upside as higher than Mallett's. I've said it before, but I'd take Mallett over Ponder for a couple of reasons:

1. Durability. Some guys are just snake-bit, and I wonder if this is the case for Ponder.
2. Production. Because of Ponder's injuries, he wasn't able to put up the kind of season I think he would have. Problem with that? I don't know he would have put up a great season. Mallett has the production.

Mallett's the safer bet.

If Ponder emerges as a healthy QB who lives up to potential, I think you're talking about a guy somewhere between A. Rodgers and D. Brees. I don't see Mallett as every being THAT kind of QB.

greasyObnoxious
04-06-2011, 11:50 AM
I'd like to be proactive too but so far we just haven't heard of Ryan Mallett making a shift up the draft boards...so I feel good about him at #15. I don't necessarily think the Dolphins are taking him, but I feel fairly good right now about him being there. We'll see, things could change.

to be honest, i'm afraid of Minnesota here. if Mallett makes it past Washington at #10, which i'm expecting him to, i'd certainly think about giving Houston a call.

Aqua and Orange
04-06-2011, 11:51 AM
The last QB I remember who was "thrilled" with a Dolphins workout was Brady Quinn, who mouthed the words, "That's surprising" when we, of course, passed on him.

Here is to hoping history doesn't repeat itself.

j-off-her-doll
04-06-2011, 11:52 AM
Especially so that you can use that 2nd round pick on either a defensive lineman that is not suited for your defensive scheme, or a tiny experimental wildcat player.

I don't know. We could trade back and reach on Ballard AND Kaepernick. That'd be pretty sweet.

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 11:54 AM
i just think its risky stuff...we'll see...imo once mallet goes along with newton and gabbert there's a considerable drop off...i keep trying to talk myself into christian ponder in the 20's and i just don't see a lot of upside there...solid pro starting qb maybe but franchise caliber??? not sure i see it...and unless i get a guy with top 12 upside and potential i'm not sure i'll ever be satisfied...

there's no question for me mallets a much better prospect and qb than chad henne...he attacks the defense vertically which i have been begging for in miami since marino left it seems none of this dink and dunk crap...if he can protect him he's gonna do damage...its risky to wait on him...

we're starving for a qb around here...lol

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 11:58 AM
One thing that hasn't been brought up about Mallett is his attitude fit for this team.

Like it or not, Brandon Marshall is here. He's here and he's here to stay, so says the $20 or $30 million of guaranteed money we gave him when we traded for him. Who is Brandon Marshall, and what does he respond to? He doesn't respond to guys like Chad Henne. He responds to guys like Jay Cutler. He ADORES Jay Cutler. They're great friends. Don't let that taunting incident fool you, that was two friends in a competitive game trash talking one another.

Jay Cutler's been accused of cockiness. He's been accused of arrogance, rubbing people the wrong way. Hell, he's called Brandon Marshall out in the media before. When Brandon Marshall and Jay Cutler were a team, Brandon Marshall didn't feel like this was the Brandon Marshall show and he needed to dictate what Jay Cutler does with the ball. Cutler would have the balls to do what Warren Moon once said he did with a diva receiver, which was to grab the guy by the facemask and tell him if he ever did (whatever it was that Moon didn't like that he did) again he would BURY the guy on the depth chart.

When you're dealing with a personality as big as Brandon Marshall's, I think that kind of thing is important. Ryan Mallett isn't going to take sh-t from a wide receiver. He's not going to be passive. And if Ryan Mallett is the starting quarterback, a 1st round pick, the future of the team, and Brandon Marshall wants his Hall of Fame career...and he gets into an argument with Ryan Mallett, Brandon Marshall is going to be the one that feels like he's got to back down. Henne is too passive, very non-confrontational. I think it drives Marshall nuts.

j-off-her-doll
04-06-2011, 11:58 AM
Just to be clear hoops, you know I was joking about recouping the 2nd, right?

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 12:00 PM
shoot...i prefer a cocky qb...give me a guy under center with some fire and swagger

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 12:01 PM
Just to be clear hoops, you know I was joking about recouping the 2nd, right?

yeah...absolutely

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 12:02 PM
i just think its risky stuff...we'll see...imo once mallet goes along with newton and gabbert there's a considerable drop off...i keep trying to talk myself into christian ponder in the 20's and i just don't see a lot of upside there...solid pro starting qb maybe but franchise caliber??? not sure i see it...and unless i get a guy with top 12 upside and potential i'm not sure i'll ever be satisfied...

there's no question for me mallets a much better prospect and qb than chad henne...he attacks the defense vertically which i have been begging for in miami since marino left it seems none of this dink and dunk crap...if he can protect him he's gonna do damage...its risky to wait on him...

we're starving for a qb around here...lol

I hate gambling with that position but I don't want to be dumb about it either...giving up 3rd round picks when right now there isn't enough intel to make us think Mallett will go before #15. By draft day that could be different. Fact of the matter is I do like Christian Ponder and he would be a worthy pick at #15 and if you get surprised and Minnesota does take Mallett...Ponder will likely be there.

And if you lose out on all of that, you put a full court press on the Carson Palmer option. And if that doesn't pan out, you start making preparations for a trade up in 2012 for a guy like Andrew Luck, Matt Barkley, or possibly Ryan Lindley.

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 12:04 PM
to be honest, i'm afraid of Minnesota here. if Mallett makes it past Washington at #10, which i'm expecting him to, i'd certainly think about giving Houston a call.

you're not the only one...they're doing just as much homework on qbs as we are...if not more...no doubt in my mind a qb gets taken by them at worst by the end of round 2

i think what they may pass mallet up for though is if a say robert quinn was to get to #12...imo that may be the route they'd go

greasyObnoxious
04-06-2011, 12:06 PM
you're not the only one...they're doing just as much homework on qbs as we are...if not more...no doubt in my mind a qb gets taken by them at worst by the end of round 2

i think what they may pass mallet up for though is if a say robert quinn was to get to #12...imo that may be the route they'd go

the shooting star that is Robert Quinn's draft stock? forgive me for liking our odds at getting Mallett even LESS now haha. he'd have to fall past some QB-hungry teams and our FO would have to avoid a brain cramp at #15 and actually take him.

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 12:06 PM
I hate gambling with that position but I don't want to be dumb about it either...giving up 3rd round picks when right now there isn't enough intel to make us think Mallett will go before #15. By draft day that could be different. Fact of the matter is I do like Christian Ponder and he would be a worthy pick at #15 and if you get surprised and Minnesota does take Mallett...Ponder will likely be there.

And if you lose out on all of that, you put a full court press on the Carson Palmer option. And if that doesn't pan out, you start making preparations for a trade up in 2012 for a guy like Andrew Luck, Matt Barkley, or possibly Ryan Lindley.

i don't feel like ponder as a consolation prize is a good thing...not at #15...but thats just me...he's my 4th qb but its not the same

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 12:08 PM
the shooting star that is Robert Quinn's draft stock? forgive me for liking our odds at getting Mallett even LESS now haha. he'd have to fall past some QB-hungry teams and our FO would have to avoid a brain cramp at #15 and actually take him.

yeah...that guys an awesome prospect...if we couldn't trade out and he was there at #15 and noqb was there to our liking i'd take quinn...even with misi and wake in house...but i love me some robert quinn

greasyObnoxious
04-06-2011, 12:10 PM
yeah...that guys an awesome prospect...if we couldn't trade out and he was there at #15 and noqb was there to our liking i'd take quinn...even with misi and wake in house...but i love me some robert quinn

i actually think it's more likely to have a QB on the board at #15 than Robert Quinn.

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 12:11 PM
i actually think it's more likely to have a QB on the board at #15 than Robert Quinn.

true...i don't think he'd get by minnesota at #12...i was just thinking out loud i guess...imo quinns a top 5 bpa

greasyObnoxious
04-06-2011, 12:14 PM
true...i don't think he'd get by minnesota at #12...i was just thinking out loud i guess...imo quinns a top 5 bpa

depending on what happens at the top, i could see Robert Quinn going as high as 5 or 6

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 12:19 PM
depending on what happens at the top, i could see Robert Quinn going as high as 5 or 6

so could i...easy...i'd take him that high no problem if i was looking for either a rush olb or a 4-3 pass rush end...i didn't need a 4.5 40 at his pro day to point his stock arrow up

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 12:20 PM
i don't feel like ponder as a consolation prize is a good thing...not at #15...but thats just me...he's my 4th qb but its not the same

FWIW, Christian Ponder has been invited to attend the NFL Draft.

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 12:21 PM
FWIW, Christian Ponder has been invited to attend the NFL Draft.

i stand by no earlier than late 1st he goes...somewhere in the mid 20's or later...

greasyObnoxious
04-06-2011, 12:24 PM
so could i...easy...i'd take him that high no problem if i was looking for either a rush olb or a 4-3 pass rush end...i didn't need a 4.5 40 at his pro day to point his stock arrow up

i usually don't go by triangle numbers, but in Quinn's case they confirmed he didn't lose any of his athleticim even after a year off.

greasyObnoxious
04-06-2011, 12:25 PM
i stand by no earlier than late 1st he goes...somewhere in the mid 20's or later...

#25 and #28 look like possible landing spots IMO

j-off-her-doll
04-06-2011, 12:27 PM
Seriously, think about what Ponder brings to the table:

Great athleticism for the position, and he uses it as a QB should; very intelligent; great feet (doesn't necessarily go hand-in-hand with athleticism); can make all the throws; great leader; tremendous accuracy and touch.

Seriously, you're talking about a guy who can absolutely be a star QB in this league.

---------- Post added at 11:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------

I'm very seriously serious about Ponder, apparently ^ wtf?

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 12:37 PM
seriously...ha ha...anyways...i think ponders a better athlete on paper than what i see on the field...i mean he tested about with newton as an athlete and to me newton was much more elusive in the sec than ponder in the acc on the hoof...i also think newton has a much better feel for the pocket and pressure...newton senses people...ponder i'm not sure i see that

the arm is pretty average to me...i see more velocity when on the move than when he stands in the pocket and delivers...i saw guys at the senior bowl almost getting the jump on some throws...could it be bad routes??? maybe but imo timing in the pocket is critical with him... i see chad pennington with better legs...

Spesh
04-06-2011, 12:41 PM
Mike Shanahan won't take Ryan Mallett. I'm pretty comfortable going on record with that one. It's just not in Shanahan's history, and he does have a pretty established history now of the kinds of quarterbacks he likes. Shanahan would love Cam Newton, Blaine Gabbert, maybe Jake Locker, maybe even Christian Ponder, but not Ryan Mallett. He likes a guy with a combination of good feet and a big arm. Mallett only has one of those. What you need to be able to do is Shanahan's offense is run the bootleg, and also to be able to sprint out on hand-offs to exchange points that are stretched a little further out than many other offenses would do it. That's a key to Shanahan's zone-based ground game. It's why John Elway was his archetype. It's why when he had the chance he traded for Jake Plummer in Denver, and then drafted Jay Cutler, and then traded for Donovan McNabb in Washington.

Wanted to add to this: Mike Shanahan made a very serious run at Tony Romo coming out of college. The only reason why he didnt get him was because Tony felt he had a better chance at earning the starting job in Dallas(was right around the time Denver signed Plummer). As well, while Elway is his architect, Shanahan was still fond of roll out quarterbacks with strong arms before he got his second chance at head coach. Shanahan was the offensive coordinator for the 49'ers when Steve Young(and Jerry Rice) bludgeoned the Chargers into stupidity.

Another reason to suspect his interest in Locker or Gabbert over Mallet: after Shanahan was fired from Denver he did 2 things. 1) Travelled to different teams during training camp researching successful 3-4 defenses. 2) Rented out an office and studied the hell out of upcoming quarterbacks. He wanted to be up to speed for the 2009 draft and figured any job he got offered would need a quarterback. He was rumored to be in love with Locker and wouldnt of hesitated drafting him 4th overall in '09. With the exception of Newton(who he obviously didnt get a chance to study pre-Redskins job), i dont think their is a quarterback who fits his "type" more then Locker. Shanahan has never been one not to take a chance at quarterback, and has been watching Locker for at least 2 years. If there is one team that would reach for Locker, its the Redskins.

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 12:43 PM
My stipulations with Ponder would be "good accuracy" rather than "tremendous accuracy"...and I would point out that his decision-making was too simple and questionable at times. I like his athleticism, I like his leadership, his ability to make all the throws from any footing or platform, obviously his toughness, and he's smart as they come.

BUT, Bill Belichick and Chan Gailey have both explained that the most important traits in a QB are his inherent accuracy and his decision-making. I wouldn't say Ponder is "weak" in either category, but he's not superlative either. I like him as a 1st round guy, think he'll continue to ascend especially once his health problems settle down. He'll benefit from NFL coaching, getting into a more complicated NFL offense.

I'd draft Newton, Mallett and Gabbert over him though.

Incidentally Jon Gruden plans to do his Quarterback School segments again, they'll air April 21st. He's doing them with Ryan Mallett, Cam Newton, Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker and Andy Dalton. No plans to do one with Christian Ponder or Colin Kaepernick.

Last year the segment he did with Jimmy Clausen really turned me off. It's not like it's something that is significant to a guy's draft grade or anything, I already didn't like how Jimmy came off in several other venues, but in the segment I thought he drew negatives. And then PFT started harping about it, and supposedly they've heard from teams that said it soured them on Jimmy Clausen as well. This will obviously be a big test for Ryan Mallett. I would say that I actually expect him to pass with flying colors but it seems like the media are really dead set on interpreting everything he does negatively. I mean, if I never knew anything of what the media thought about Ryan Mallett's Q&A segment at the Combine, never heard from them but I just watched it on video and had to write about it, I'd have written a glowing report about how Ryan Mallett was tested hard by the media and came out of smooth and smiley like a winter date at Rockefeller Center. And yet the press wrote things like "disastrous" and "off putting", "defensive", "stormed off", "cut the interview off early", etc. It was a farse.

j-off-her-doll
04-06-2011, 01:16 PM
Agree that I was overstating his case a tad.

I also agree that Mallett has been great in every interview/media situation he's encountered (that I've seen).

MadDog 88
04-06-2011, 01:18 PM
I hate gambling with that position but I don't want to be dumb about it either...giving up 3rd round picks when right now there isn't enough intel to make us think Mallett will go before #15. By draft day that could be different. Fact of the matter is I do like Christian Ponder and he would be a worthy pick at #15 and if you get surprised and Minnesota does take Mallett...Ponder will likely be there.

And if you lose out on all of that, you put a full court press on the Carson Palmer option. And if that doesn't pan out, you start making preparations for a trade up in 2012 for a guy like Andrew Luck, Matt Barkley, or possibly Ryan Lindley.

I certainly hope you're right about Mallet not going before 15 but I think the odds of 8 teams in need of a QB and Mallet being arguably the best, won't last. Quite honestly I'll be surprised if Newton is picked before him. The Bengals, Cardinals and Vikings are the teams I would be concerned with taking Mallet. Hopefully Washington takes Locker because if Mallet is gone, Ponder would be my choice at 15.

ChambersWI
04-06-2011, 01:20 PM
just wanted to correct a bit of why Mallett left Michigan. He almost left to go back to Arkansas BEFORE his freshmen season. He went to Michigan mainly because Mitch Mustain was already at Arkansas, after he transferred, Mallett seriously contemplated leaving, but Lloyd Carr talked him into staying. During the season, Mallett's attitude really rubbed a bunch of teammates the wrong way. Rodriguez coming in was just an easy out for him, but he was thinking of leaving (and probably would have left) no matter who the coach was.

And Lloyd Carr was not fired. After the previous season he wanted to retire, but the AD at the time convinced him to stay one more year. Not to turn this into a Michigan thread, but the whole situation was very messy the whole way around.

As for Mallett. If his attitude as truly changed (and I can vouch going to a few Michigan games that year and getting to meet him, he had quite the ego on him), I'm all for bringing him here. The cocaine rumors bug me, but as of now they are still just rumors.

MadDog 88
04-06-2011, 01:25 PM
As long as my QB put's TDs on the scoreboard and is not careless with the ball, I could care less how cocky he is.

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 01:30 PM
I hate gambling with that position but I don't want to be dumb about it either...giving up 3rd round picks when right now there isn't enough intel to make us think Mallett will go before #15. By draft day that could be different. Fact of the matter is I do like Christian Ponder and he would be a worthy pick at #15 and if you get surprised and Minnesota does take Mallett...Ponder will likely be there.

And if you lose out on all of that, you put a full court press on the Carson Palmer option. And if that doesn't pan out, you start making preparations for a trade up in 2012 for a guy like Andrew Luck, Matt Barkley, or possibly Ryan Lindley.

lemme ask you something...you guys research seems to point to mallet MAYBE being an occasional pot smoker...there is still no concrete evidence to suggest anything harder...if teams doing their homework on this kid have roughly the same findings what gives you confidence mallet makes it to pick #15 other than the old school mentality gms and coaches seem to have when it comes to drug use and qbs and that for all we know right now mallets name is not one that seems to be moving up the boards rumors wise???

do you really want to risk someone else taking your preferred qb on an old school mentality and that there's no buzz in the media on the kid right now??? i don't think going and getting that kid considering what we know off the field and the fact we all agree mallet has undeniable franchise qb talents etc is a dumb play if he falls in your wheelhouse

SCOTTY
04-06-2011, 02:03 PM
lemme ask you something...you guys research seems to point to mallet MAYBE being an occasional pot smoker...there is still no concrete evidence to suggest anything harder...if teams doing their homework on this kid have roughly the same findings what gives you confidence mallet makes it to pick #15 other than the old school mentality gms and coaches seem to have when it comes to drug use and qbs and that for all we know right now mallets name is not one that seems to be moving up the boards rumors wise???

do you really want to risk someone else taking your preferred qb on an old school mentality and that there's no buzz in the media on the kid right now??? i don't think going and getting that kid considering what we know off the field and the fact we all agree mallet has undeniable franchise qb talents etc is a dumb play if he falls in your wheelhouse

I think it's amazing that the top 2 guys posters want on this board both have huge rumors, issues lingering. Mallett with his drug use and Ingram with his health. As much as the reward might turn out to be with each one, it just sucks that both guys have major questions.

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 02:05 PM
[/B]I think it's amazing that the top 2 guys posters want on this board both have huge rumors, issues lingering. Mallett with his drug use and Ingram with his health. As much as the reward might turn out to be with each one, it just sucks that both guys have major questions.

i'm not afraid to take a risk if the talent warrants it...the question is does mallet even get to us if he's squeaky clean??? i very seriously doubt it

BlueFin
04-06-2011, 02:08 PM
I'm on board with Ryan Mallett, I do think we'll get him at 15, but would not be upset if a move up was neccesary.

We just have to fix this QB situation, even if it means a year of development for Mallett. As we've seen, 10+ years can slip by if you don't.

MadDog 88
04-06-2011, 02:09 PM
[/B]I think it's amazing that the top 2 guys posters want on this board both have huge rumors, issues lingering. Mallett with his drug use and Ingram with his health. As much as the reward might turn out to be with each one, it just sucks that both guys have major questions.A long standing problem the Dolphins have had is being overly conservative in the draft. If you want to reap the reward, you have to be willing to take the risk.

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 02:12 PM
A long standing problem the Dolphins have had is being overly conservative in the draft. If you want to reap the reward, you have to be willing to take the risk.

absolutely...i'm so sick and tired of average and safe it makes me sick...

SCOTTY
04-06-2011, 02:12 PM
A long standing problem the Dolphins have had is being overly conservative in the draft. If you want to reap the reward, you have to be willing to take the risk.

I'd rather take a risk of, is this QB's talent going to translate to the NFL NOT Is this going going to sniff his way out of a career. I'd rather take the risk of what kind of an impact is a rookie RB going to have with a team that has major Oline issue Not is his knee going to last past his first year.

Aqua and Orange
04-06-2011, 02:18 PM
I think that Vikings pick before ours will be HUGE in determining who drops to us, QB-wise. I could easily see them going with Mallett. This would be the second most annoying thing that can happen, right after the Dolphins passing on Mallett or trading down while thinking they can get him later.

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 02:24 PM
just wanted to correct a bit of why Mallett left Michigan. He almost left to go back to Arkansas BEFORE his freshmen season. He went to Michigan mainly because Mitch Mustain was already at Arkansas, after he transferred, Mallett seriously contemplated leaving, but Lloyd Carr talked him into staying. During the season, Mallett's attitude really rubbed a bunch of teammates the wrong way. Rodriguez coming in was just an easy out for him, but he was thinking of leaving (and probably would have left) no matter who the coach was.

And Lloyd Carr was not fired. After the previous season he wanted to retire, but the AD at the time convinced him to stay one more year. Not to turn this into a Michigan thread, but the whole situation was very messy the whole way around.

As for Mallett. If his attitude as truly changed (and I can vouch going to a few Michigan games that year and getting to meet him, he had quite the ego on him), I'm all for bringing him here. The cocaine rumors bug me, but as of now they are still just rumors.

We've done more research on the subject than anyone outside of an NFL team, and I haven't seen any corroboration of your reasoning for why Mallett chose Michigan, or any corroboration of your report that Mallett was already going to transfer out of Michigan.

What we HAVE seen though, is that rumor mills can churn out a lot of things that are FALSE, with people spreading word-of-mouth stuff that has no real basis in reality. I'm not saying you're basing your claims on nothing, I'm sure you heard what you say is true with respect to those two things. But what you heard has not been corroborated, and probably should get filed in the rumor mill folder.

MadDog 88
04-06-2011, 02:26 PM
I'd rather take a risk of, is this QB's talent going to translate to the NFL NOT Is this going going to sniff his way out of a career. I'd rather take the risk of what kind of an impact is a rookie RB going to have with a team that has major Oline issue Not is his knee going to last past his first year.
I'm not a believer in these BS unsubstantiated rumors about Mallet and Cocaine. If there were something to it, it wouldn't be just rumors. Notice how this talk has quieted?

I am confident in not having to worry about off field issues with Mallet therefore, the risk there is minimal.

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 02:41 PM
lemme ask you something...you guys research seems to point to mallet MAYBE being an occasional pot smoker...there is still no concrete evidence to suggest anything harder...if teams doing their homework on this kid have roughly the same findings what gives you confidence mallet makes it to pick #15 other than the old school mentality gms and coaches seem to have when it comes to drug use and qbs and that for all we know right now mallets name is not one that seems to be moving up the boards rumors wise???

Important stipulation. Our research points to there being SOMETHING, something that is presumably important, that we do NOT know. And whatever this something is, 99% of the rest of people out there don't know it either, and the ones that do are not putting it out for public consumption. We can speculate what that is, but it's baseless speculation. The only "evidence" is that when he was arrested for public drunkenness, the cop SAYS he smelled like marijuana. So if you want to speculate that the big something is marijuana, then nobody can claim that your speculation is "baseless"...it would have a basis, but not a strong one. Before you thought the big something was cocaine addiction. I personally see some ways to deduce that cocaine addiction is probably not it...but who knows?

What you have is a media market and fanbase that are attempting very hard to come up with a reason not to like Ryan Mallett. They're trying extremely hard, through a combination of making mountains out of molehills, and/or just making things up. I'm not saying it's a conscious or nefarious effort. But it's there and it's pretty undeniable based on what we've seen. Why would they do that? I think it's because everyone knows and has taken their cues from the NFL that this guy has a big issue that's not "known" within the public sphere. But it looks bad when someone expresses an opinion that so-and-so, who clearly has 1st round talent at the most important position on the football field, should not be a 1st rounder because "Well...just...because...I can't say what it is he's done, but it's not good." Nobody likes that, nobody settles for it, so that's why they go about making mountains out of molehills and/or creating negatives out of thin air. People want to know things, they can't stand not knowing things. And they want to know why Ryan Mallett is not a 1st rounder.

All we are doing, we being our UD piece, is calling a spade a spade, and pointing out there are a lot of over-reactions and baseless criticisms out there, not to mention directly false information. Yes, we realize there's probably something we don't know and it's a significant thing. But NFL teams aren't sharing, and whatever they do share with you has to be looked upon skeptically as teams are intentionally untruthful this time of year. We just believe that whatever it is that constitutes this smoking gun has to be viewed within the context of his history at Arkansas, which is littered with reports of what a hard worker he was, his ability to win 10 games at Arkansas, leading one of the most prolific passing offenses in the history of the SEC, his ability to elevate the talent levels of the players around him, his ability to (for whatever reason, ulterior or altruistic, doesn't matter) inspire teammates to go to bat for him, his ability to inspire coaches and local media to do the same, his ability to come off sounding like a good guy in interviews, and finally his ability to put on display NFL franchise skills that produce on Sundays. So whatever this smoking gun is, has to be viewed within all that context.

Because we don't know it, we can't say for certain where this guy is going to go in the Draft. You have to try and do what is difficult, figure out where teams are REALLY leaning. Follow the clues. Right now, I'm seeing teams like Seattle taking an interest in him, them picking late in the 1st round, and the Bengals, who pick early in R2, I hear the Vikings looked at him and I know he's got a secret visit lined up with the Patriots who I'll be damned if they'd use their early 1st rounder on him. The money seems to be where the mouth is, for SOME teams, in the claim that Ryan Mallett is being looked at as a late 1st or 2nd round guy. That could change.

vaneasy2338
04-06-2011, 02:47 PM
I strongly believe that Ryan Mallett is more pro ready that either Gabbert or Newton. To me its more than playing in a pro style. The ability to handle pressure, the accuracy, the arm strenght... Mallett is very solid in these areas.

By the way CK, Chad Henne did not play in a national championship game (although the 06 OSU game might as well have been one).

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 02:55 PM
I strongly believe that Ryan Mallett is more pro ready that either Gabbert & Newton. To me its more than playing in a pro style. The ability to handle pressure, the accuracy, the arm strenght... Mallett is very solid in these areas.

By the way CK, Chad Henne did not play in a national championship game (although the 06 OSU game might as well have been one).

Man, I could swear he went to the championship game when he was a frosh. Maybe I'm just thinking of them being in contention to go to the National Championship Game if they'd beaten Ohio State in that final game before the Bowl? They were the Big Ten Champs.

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 02:58 PM
BTW there's definitely a strong argument to be made that Mallett is more pro-ready than Newton. In fact, for most it's probably like a "duh" statement. But I have a feeling that if both played as rookies, Cam would have about as much success. Part of that is that whoever takes Cam is going to adapt their offense to him, wherease whoever takes Ryan will have him adapt to their offense.

vaneasy2338
04-06-2011, 02:59 PM
Man, I could swear he went to the championship game when he was a frosh.Michigan played Vince Young in the rose bowl his freshman year (very good game). His sophomore yr. Michigan went 11-0 until losing to OSU and then USC in the rose bowl. Junior year was a rough one, and Michigan lost to Nebraska in the alamo bowl. Senior year Michigan beat Florida in the Capital One Bowl.

You make an interesting point about whoever takes Newton will adept thier offense to his skill set. I was thinking about it... Have we ever seens an athlete THIS good playing quarterback? I mean 250 lbs. strong, fast. I mean the kid is a straight up beast. Newton may never completely adept to a pro style but the thing is he might not need to. I don't think there has ever been a quarterback quite like this.

Roman529
04-06-2011, 03:05 PM
We've done more research on the subject than anyone outside of an NFL team, and I haven't seen any corroboration of your reasoning for why Mallett chose Michigan, or any corroboration of your report that Mallett was already going to transfer out of Michigan.

What we HAVE seen though, is that rumor mills can churn out a lot of things that are FALSE, with people spreading word-of-mouth stuff that has no real basis in reality. I'm not saying you're basing your claims on nothing, I'm sure you heard what you say is true with respect to those two things. But what you heard has not been corroborated, and probably should get filed in the rumor mill folder.

I totally agree with you here CK. I remember people were saying the same thing about Dan Marino and how he was a partier and drug user at Pitt. When it came time to the draft there were probably five or six teams that passed on Marino and went with another QB, or another player altogether. I think Mallett was arrested for intoxication but never for drug use. I remember my college days and partying hard at times, but once I left college and got a job I changed my ways. If we take Mallett, someone like Pennington could probably mentor him and get him to focus on learning the playbook and maturing as a person. I hope Mallett is the QB we take....and Ponder would be my 2nd choice.

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 03:29 PM
Michigan played Vince Young in the rose bowl his freshman year (very good game). His sophomore yr. Michigan went 11-0 until losing to OSU and then USC in the rose bowl. Junior year was a rough one, and Michigan lost to Nebraska in the alamo bowl. Senior year Michigan beat Florida in the Capital One Bowl.

You make an interesting point about whoever takes Newton will adept thier offense to his skill set. I was thinking about it... Have we ever seens an athlete THIS good playing quarterback? I mean 250 lbs. strong, fast. I mean the kid is a straight up beast. Newton may never completely adept to a pro style but the thing is he might not need to. I don't think there has ever been a quarterback quite like this.

I think Daunte Culpepper in his prime was about as beastly. Same physical characteristic where if they were a linebacker, you'd draft them in the 1st round on physical prowess alone. Culpepper kinda got fat, never took his tape study to a second level, had the knee tear which was devastating to him. But for a while he was about as good as it got.

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 03:31 PM
I totally agree with you here CK. I remember people were saying the same thing about Dan Marino and how he was a partier and drug user at Pitt. When it came time to the draft there were probably five or six teams that passed on Marino and went with another QB, or another player altogether. I think Mallett was arrested for intoxication but never for drug use. I remember my college days and partying hard at times, but once I left college and got a job I changed my ways. If we take Mallett, someone like Pennington could probably mentor him and get him to focus on learning the playbook and maturing as a person. I hope Mallett is the QB we take....and Ponder would be my 2nd choice.

I go back to what I heard when I was at the Shrine practices which is a very connected guy telling me that "everyone" keeps telling him that Mallett did cocaine, but that "nobody" will confirm it. I think what they have on him could be cocaine, could be marijuana, could be both. But I doubt anyone has anything showing he's an habitual user.

j-off-her-doll
04-06-2011, 03:42 PM
BTW there's definitely a strong argument to be made that Mallett is more pro-ready than Newton. In fact, for most it's probably like a "duh" statement. But I have a feeling that if both played as rookies, Cam would have about as much success. Part of that is that whoever takes Cam is going to adapt their offense to him, wherease whoever takes Ryan will have him adapt to their offense.

I agree with all of this. Also, a QB with the physical tools of Newton will play against simpler D's. Teams will throw exotic D's at Mallet trying to confuse him. Teams will do this some with Newton, but they'll also have to be 'honest' - for fear of his scrambling ability. Newton will likely never - as long as he stays in shape - see man-to-man coverage where someone isn't spying him.

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 03:49 PM
i think mallets the most pro ready but i also think it makes zero sense not to incorporate a ton of that auburn offense in your gameplan if you draft newton...play to his strengths

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 04:01 PM
I go back to what I heard when I was at the Shrine practices which is a very connected guy telling me that "everyone" keeps telling him that Mallett did cocaine, but that "nobody" will confirm it. I think what they have on him could be cocaine, could be marijuana, could be both. But I doubt anyone has anything showing he's an habitual user.

if the coke use if true was an experimental thing you know a once or twice thing i think i could keep him on my board...but if i found out the kid was in the stuff tony montana style on weekends or even casual usage and i saw evidence of any usage carrying over to arkansas...off my board he'd go

the last thing you want to do is hand a kid a ton of money and miami beach who likes to dabble with coke...recipe for disaster...

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 04:13 PM
In all likelihood I think what it could be is that teams have witnesses saying they saw him do coke and/or weed, something like that, and when he got into those meeting rooms he told them yes he did some a couple of times during his year off from football, he partied too hard and then football came back around and he stopped all the partying and got back to work.

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 04:19 PM
In all likelihood I think what it could be is that teams have witnesses saying they saw him do coke and/or weed, something like that, and when he got into those meeting rooms he told them yes he did some a couple of times during his year off from football, he partied too hard and then football came back around and he stopped all the partying and got back to work.

yeah that would be my thoughts also...i don't see nfl teams with major qb needs dropping the guy into round 2 for smoking some weed...but i can see them docking him a round for coke use years ago...if the coke stuff was habitual and they had evidence of such like you said he'd be off boards all together...

personally i think the round 2 talk comes from the prior coke use...

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 04:26 PM
That about sums it up.

We'll just have to wait and see. I'm assuming the worst, within reason, and I'm still comfortable with him.

Mr. Magoo
04-06-2011, 04:30 PM
i think mallets the most pro ready but i also think it makes zero sense not to incorporate a ton of that auburn offense in your gameplan if you draft newton...play to his strengths

This notion that whatever team takes Newton should, or will have to, adapt to him by installing zone reads and option plays is something I just flat disagree with.

I don't care how big and strong Cam Newton is. In the NFL, if he tries to run the option, he's going to get punched in the mouth and they're going to hurt him, plain and simple. "Running" ability is the most overstated positive trait about a quarterback there is, in my view. What matters in the NFL is throwing the football and that's how you have to evaluate his potential.

My positive feeling about Cam Newton stems almost entirely from the fact that I like him as a passer. Unlike a lot of these guys, I think he shows a lot of potential to make the transition and be a pocket passer, not unlike how Steve Young did all those years ago (for his sake, I hope Newton makes the transition faster than Young did).

Tennessee had to adapt to Vince Young because Vince Young just wasn't good enough -- and didn't work hard enough -- to be an NFL quarterback. But the fact of the matter is no team is going to a Super Bowl with him as their quarterback no matter how much they change their offense. This whole thing is like saying last year that if the Rams took Sam Bradford they had to adapt by going to a spread, 2-minute, get the play call from the sideline look to make it easier on him.

Nonsense. Sam Bradford can read the defense and throw the football, and that's what it takes to play in the league. If Newton can't do that right away, then he'll have to sit on the bench until he can.

vagrantprodigy
04-06-2011, 04:33 PM
I'm ok with taking Mallett, but only if we trade down to late first/early second. Also, I am concerned with the fist fight that will inevitably occur between Marshall and Mallett if things go south... They are both guys with tempers, and Marshall has a definite history of little self control.

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 04:49 PM
This notion that whatever team takes Newton should, or will have to, adapt to him by installing zone reads and option plays is something I just flat disagree with.

I don't care how big and strong Cam Newton is. In the NFL, if he tries to run the option, he's going to get punched in the mouth and they're going to hurt him, plain and simple. "Running" ability is the most overstated positive trait about a quarterback there is, in my view. What matters in the NFL is throwing the football and that's how you have to evaluate his potential.

My positive feeling about Cam Newton stems almost entirely from the fact that I like him as a passer. Unlike a lot of these guys, I think he shows a lot of potential to make the transition and be a pocket passer, not unlike how Steve Young did all those years ago (for his sake, I hope Newton makes the transition faster than Young did).

Tennessee had to adapt to Vince Young because Vince Young just wasn't good enough -- and didn't work hard enough -- to be an NFL quarterback. But the fact of the matter is no team is going to a Super Bowl with him as their quarterback no matter how much they change their offense. This whole thing is like saying last year that if the Rams took Sam Bradford they had to adapt by going to a spread, 2-minute, get the play call from the sideline look to make it easier on him.

Nonsense. Sam Bradford can read the defense and throw the football, and that's what it takes to play in the league. If Newton can't do that right away, then he'll have to sit on the bench until he can.

i don't mean the read option stuff...you'll get him killed...i just think you need to play to his strengths...his mobility and spread guys out where his arm can make plays...i wouldn't want to try and run a whole lot of play action asking a cam newton to turn his back to the defense and then make quick reads and decisions with the football...but i also get a lot of what you're saying...and for me cam newton as a passer is very advanced relative to all the other duel threat qbs we've seen in recent years come out...i think we both agree on that and its something i'm hanging my hat on with him as a pro

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 04:50 PM
I don't care how big and strong Cam Newton is. In the NFL, if he tries to run the option, he's going to get punched in the mouth and they're going to hurt him, plain and simple.

Did you watch him play? He's over 6'5" and 250+ lbs of pure muscle, with the leg drive to move a pile on the goal line. He's strong as an ox, and not at all afraid of being physical with defenders. He's the one that will be doing a lot of the punching. And yes, it will hurt (the defensive players).

I think it would be downright foolish not to incorporate plays with run/pass option into the offense of whatever team drafts Newton.

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 04:51 PM
This isn't some china doll, people! Cam Newton is very literally the biggest and strongest quarterback prospect I have *ever* seen.

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 04:57 PM
This isn't some china doll, people! Cam Newton is very literally the biggest and strongest quarterback prospect I have *ever* seen.

yeah but i don't think you want to turn him into tommy vardell all that often either...designed qb runs in the pros are dangerous...but i think its a part of who he is and what he brings to the table so in cams case you got to use it a little bit...that run threat on any play is also gonna make things easier on him when it comes to coverages...he's gonna see a lot of one on one looks cause the d will be all about stopping cam on the hoof

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 04:58 PM
Perhaps you guys need a refresher course on some of this stuff. If Cam Newton had no throwing skills whatsoever, he would be highly draftable as a tailback, and the closest comparison would be Brandon Jacobs. This is not a guy that needs to be protected in the short run. Would you want him to be a pocket passer in the long run? Absolutely. But he's not going to be one overnight, especially with a lockout-shortened off season. You're going to tell me the guy below needs to be protected from the big bad scary defensive players (that are almost ALL smaller than him)?

I guess it would be one thing if you felt he always unnecessarily sought contact as a runner. But that's just not the case. He's smart about it, has an innate feel for when it's appropriate to go down without a fight, and when it's appropriate to use that tremendous physical power of his. He's a quarterback, after all...which means, he's a quick thinker. Some of these arguments Magoo is making, I can already tell Magoo doesn't like him, because the arguments take it for granted that he doesn't trust Newton on some of the most basic levels.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bQMQCFr1fbk

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 05:02 PM
Perhaps you guys need a refresher course on some of this stuff. If Cam Newton had no throwing skills whatsoever, he would be highly draftable as a tailback, and the closest comparison would be Brandon Jacobs. This is not a guy that needs to be protected in the short run. Would you want him to be a pocket passer in the long run? Absolutely. But he's not going to be one overnight, especially with a lockout-shortened off season. You're going to tell me the guy below needs to be protected from the big bad scary defensive players (that are almost ALL smaller than him)?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bQMQCFr1fbk

so you want him to put his head down in the pros and dig for yardage repeatedly??? he'll be on ir with a concussion...he may be bigger and stronger than a lot of these guys in the pros but these cats pack a whallop also

i understand the want for run pass option plays but i don't think you want cam going headfirst into piles in the pros all that often

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 05:16 PM
so you want him to put his head down in the pros and dig for yardage repeatedly??? he'll be on ir with a concussion...he may be bigger and stronger than a lot of these guys in the pros but these cats pack a whallop also

i understand the want for run pass option plays but i don't think you want cam going headfirst into piles in the pros all that often

I think you're babying the 6'5" and 250+ pounder with 6 percent body fat a little much. He was the starting tailback for Auburn's offense, in addition to being the starting quarterback, and he developed genuine running skills. He protects himself on the field, and has power to spare when the situation calls for it.

NFL defenders are not big scary monsters that will all kill him. They only look that way to defenseless players that aren't expecting it, and that's why the league is cutting down on that stuff. He's going to be bigger than all but the bigger defensive linemen on the football field. He's stronger than a lot of linebackers. That's not boasting, that's just reality.

Long run you don't want the guy to make a 10-15 year living running option stuff in the NFL. But short run? To play scared of contact with a guy that is 6'5" and 250+ lbs with 6 percent body fat, a guy that was stronger than most linemen on his team, a guy with that many carries in the SEC and that shows an innate ability to protect himself? Come on man. Just because a guy's position description says "quarterback" doesn't mean he automatically is a *****.

hooshoops
04-06-2011, 05:25 PM
I think you're babying the 6'5" and 250+ pounder with 6 percent body fat a little much. He was the starting tailback for Auburn's offense, in addition to being the starting quarterback, and he developed genuine running skills. He protects himself on the field, and has power to spare when the situation calls for it.

NFL defenders are not big scary monsters that will all kill him. They only look that way to defenseless players that aren't expecting it, and that's why the league is cutting down on that stuff. He's going to be bigger than all but the bigger defensive linemen on the football field. He's stronger than a lot of linebackers. That's not boasting, that's just reality.

Long run you don't want the guy to make a 10-15 year living running option stuff in the NFL. But short run? To play scared of contact with a guy that is 6'5" and 250+ lbs with 6 percent body fat, a guy that was stronger than most linemen on his team, a guy with that many carries in the SEC and that shows an innate ability to protect himself? Come on man. Just because a guy's position description says "quarterback" doesn't mean he automatically is a *****.

maybe i am...i'm not saying don't do it...it's a part of what cam brings to the table...i'd just be counting how often i went to that well every week...i'm definitely not gonna use this guy like a rb and have him carrying the rock 15 times a game in the pros...

realistically ck...if cam newton can be used the way that you are talkin he could change the game at the nfl level...a duel threat qb that you can run in the pros on the regular and who has the arm to gash you with high level passing skills at the nfl level... thats a game changer if he pulls it off

TrinidadDolfan
04-06-2011, 05:46 PM
Just to be clear hoops, you know I was joking about recouping the 2nd, right?

Thank God! I was begining to worry about you there! lol

Mr. Magoo
04-06-2011, 07:00 PM
Perhaps you guys need a refresher course on some of this stuff. If Cam Newton had no throwing skills whatsoever, he would be highly draftable as a tailback, and the closest comparison would be Brandon Jacobs. This is not a guy that needs to be protected in the short run. Would you want him to be a pocket passer in the long run? Absolutely. But he's not going to be one overnight, especially with a lockout-shortened off season. You're going to tell me the guy below needs to be protected from the big bad scary defensive players (that are almost ALL smaller than him)?

I guess it would be one thing if you felt he always unnecessarily sought contact as a runner. But that's just not the case. He's smart about it, has an innate feel for when it's appropriate to go down without a fight, and when it's appropriate to use that tremendous physical power of his. He's a quarterback, after all...which means, he's a quick thinker. Some of these arguments Magoo is making, I can already tell Magoo doesn't like him, because the arguments take it for granted that he doesn't trust Newton on some of the most basic levels.

You mean the Brandon Jacobs that has been nicked up throughout his career and has never had more than 224 carries in a season?

I'm not saying Cam Newton is a *****. I'm saying your franchise quarterback is too valuable to use as a running back even part of the time. As a scrambler? Sure. But don't let him get hit any more than he has to.

And you say he's 6'5 and 245 like it's some huge advantage as a runner when it's really not. For breaking tackles ala Roethlisberger? Sure, it's nice to have size and strength. But not in the open field. Not in the NFL. There's a reason most running backs in the NFL aren't any taller than 6 feet. Being big just makes you that much bigger a target for more guys to hit.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_TUVAvLQhQ&feature=related

If you think he can take the pounding, more power to you. All you're going make more likely is that your franchise quarterback has to sit on the bench.

I do like Cam Newton and I've said so consistently. He's my third rated quarterback after Gabbert and Ponder and I have consistently defended his ability to throw the football. But not unlike Ponder, he'll have to dial his aggressiveness with the football in his hands way down.

NYPhin24
04-06-2011, 07:05 PM
I'm ok with taking Mallett, but only if we trade down to late first/early second. Also, I am concerned with the fist fight that will inevitably occur between Marshall and Mallett if things go south... They are both guys with tempers, and Marshall has a definite history of little self control.

I agree in a way, im for trading down and gaining more picks as much as anyone, but if Mallet is sitting there at #15 I say pull the trigger, if you trade down back into the mid 20's that leaves opportunities open for teams to draft him ahead of Miami

The Jaguars are sitting right behind Miami at #16 and could grab Mallet, Seattle at #25 can trade up and grab him as well, teams that drafted before Miami can also trade back into the first round to grab him like the Broncos did for Tebow, if you want to be 100% sure you have your QB, you take him at #15 and dont look back

ckparrothead
04-06-2011, 07:14 PM
maybe i am...i'm not saying don't do it...it's a part of what cam brings to the table...i'd just be counting how often i went to that well every week...i'm definitely not gonna use this guy like a rb and have him carrying the rock 15 times a game in the pros...

realistically ck...if cam newton can be used the way that you are talkin he could change the game at the nfl level...a duel threat qb that you can run in the pros on the regular and who has the arm to gash you with high level passing skills at the nfl level... thats a game changer if he pulls it off

I'm not talking about giving him 15 carries a game. I'm talking about incorporating some run/pass option stuff. Opens up the passing game, and provides a little extra ground and pound. It's nothing new or revolutionary, we saw it in Atlanta with Vick and saw it in Tennessee with Young, saw it in Kansas City with Tyler Thigpen, in Miami with the Wildcat and Pat White and now every team in the league does it. I just don't know why the ideal run/pass threat finally comes along and you strip all that out of the playbook and say no, he's taking pocket passes and only pocket passes and that's the end of it.

cuban_refugee
04-06-2011, 09:41 PM
For every game that ended like the Ohio State and Alabama games ended, with Mallett throwing an interception while trying to embark on game-winning drives, there were games like the Georgia game that were close and Mallett performed his best in crunch time.

For all the talk about the situation Mallett found himself in against Ohio State, if you look at the previous drive, that was a big crunch moment drive as well. They started 1st & 10 and Mallett played well on the drive but a holding penalty and I believe a drop contributed to their punting with 4:30 left in the game, down 31-26. The only reason Arkansas got the ball back with 1:09 remaining at a spot where they had a LEGIT chance at a winning touchdown drive, was because of a punt block. Otherwise it would have been the PREVIOUS drive, the one marred by a holding penalty causing a 1st & 21, that would have been the real culprit.

And of course, if Mallett's WRs don't drop a ridiculous number of balls, Arkansas isn't down in the score to begin with.

Just playing a bit of Devil's Advocate.....Mallet played a Georgia team that just installed a 3-4 this year with a new Defense coach. Georgia did not play very well this year in general.

clashcityrocker
04-06-2011, 10:09 PM
Especially so that you can use that 2nd round pick on either a defensive lineman that is not suited for your defensive scheme, or a tiny experimental wildcat player.

A tiny wildcat player when Clint Sintim and Connor Barwin are still on the board.

And I'll never understand why we didn't trade Merling for Cliff Avril when we that rumor was making the rounds. Seemed to be a good trade from the outside looking in. But je ne sais rien...

clashcityrocker
04-06-2011, 10:38 PM
so you want him to put his head down in the pros and dig for yardage repeatedly??? he'll be on ir with a concussion...he may be bigger and stronger than a lot of these guys in the pros but these cats pack a whallop also

i understand the want for run pass option plays but i don't think you want cam going headfirst into piles in the pros all that often


2:13 to 2:39 - WTF did I just watch? At first I thought I just saw happy feet, but then it hit me that this guy has uncanny awareness to go with that amazing size and strength. At this point I'd be happy with Newton or Mallett. Both are absolutely amazing in their own ways. I guess it just comes down to A) if either or both are available at #15, and B) which skillset Ireland and Sparano prefer. Obviously if both are gone at #15, this is a moot point. But I would be ecstatic to get either of these guys.

JRoX85
04-06-2011, 10:45 PM
All I can say is that some of you want to draft a RB who can escape and scramble if needed, can anyone of you tell me what scrambling qb has one a sb besides Elway the answer is 0 look at the past 10 sb all winners were pocket passers with Rodgers the only exception and even he would rather stand and deliver.. Mallett is the answer at 15 PERIOD

DefensiveEnd76
04-06-2011, 10:47 PM
Mallett is not only slower than hell but his baggage is just too great and is the biggest concern.

TedSlimmJr
04-06-2011, 11:11 PM
Just playing a bit of Devil's Advocate.....Mallet played a Georgia team that just installed a 3-4 this year with a new Defense coach. Georgia did not play very well this year in general.


UGA played a helluva lot better on defense under Todd Grantham than they had the previous 2 years under Willie Martinez running a 4-3, which is why they fired him and installed a 3-4 system.

I think the point that gets overlooked regarding Mallett and the Georgia game is that he played clutch in crunch time. He brought them back and made incredibly clutch reads and throws to win the game... all while facing pressure from Georgia's defense..

Everybody that played UGA faced that same 3-4 defense, including Cam Newton, who also led Auburn back from a deficit against Georgia. Todd Grantham came from the NFL and faced both quarterbacks... even he doubts Cam Newton can hack it in the NFL.

TedSlimmJr
04-06-2011, 11:15 PM
Mallett is not only slower than hell but his baggage is just too great and is the biggest concern.


Every ounce of Ryan Mallett's baggage will fit in one Cecil Newton envelope....

vaneasy2338
04-07-2011, 12:36 AM
I think Magoo has a good point about Newton being so tall (I know we are deviating from him as a passer but it creates good dicussion) . It is something that I was thinking about myself. As much of a beast as Newton (and he certainly is one) is, a 6'6'' runner is only going to be able to take so many shots. Could you imagine James Harrison with a helmet to the ribs... And being that tall, you inherently expose so much upper body. So even if he is successful as a runner in the nfl, I imagine it only being a short-term thing. I Know Mike Vick has incorporated some of that into his game throughout his entire career (and virtually all he was successful with in Atlanta), but Mike Vick has the speed and quickness to avoid those bone-crushing hits and Mike Vick isn't 6'6''. I think it's an apples-to-oranges comparsion.

Clipse
04-07-2011, 12:58 AM
All I can say is that some of you want to draft a RB who can escape and scramble if needed, can anyone of you tell me what scrambling qb has one a sb besides Elway the answer is 0 look at the past 10 sb all winners were pocket passers with Rodgers the only exception and even he would rather stand and deliver.. Mallett is the answer at 15 PERIOD

And since when is Cam Newton a scrambling QB? He runs on designed passes about the same amount of time that Aaron Rodgers did last year. Try again.

JRoX85
04-07-2011, 12:37 PM
Try again??? Look at Cam Newtons rushing yards through last year, they over 1000 tell me if aaron rodgers ever did that in college the answer is NO.... Comparing Newton to Rodgers is like Comparing a pinto to an BMW... So on your behalf try again...

hooshoops
04-07-2011, 12:41 PM
A tiny wildcat player when Clint Sintim and Connor Barwin are still on the board.

And I'll never understand why we didn't trade Merling for Cliff Avril when we that rumor was making the rounds. Seemed to be a good trade from the outside looking in. But je ne sais rien...

whats so great about clint sintim??? to my knowledge he's done jack squat as a pro

state06
04-07-2011, 01:13 PM
I agree with CK. Newton is big enough, strong enough to be able to do zone option reads at times in the NFL. I wouldnt compare him to Jacobs in running style though. Jacobs runs through people, and his body takes a beating. If you would watch the video posted, you can see that newton when running, especially up the middle, does not try to fight for the extra yards, and goes down quite easily for being so big. he does a good job at protecting himself. He'll gain 5-6 yards, then go down when a player is bearing down on him.

ckparrothead
04-07-2011, 02:15 PM
A tiny wildcat player when Clint Sintim and Connor Barwin are still on the board.

And I'll never understand why we didn't trade Merling for Cliff Avril when we that rumor was making the rounds. Seemed to be a good trade from the outside looking in. But je ne sais rien...

You never know if the Lions would have actually said yes to that trade.

What I don't get really to this day is why Miami didn't take that 272 lbs player from Clemson, make him more like a 262 lbs player, and have him play the same kind of position Matt Roth did. That's always how I saw him. When they made their intentions clear to put Merling at 3-4 DE, suddenly that went from a "strong" pick for me to a "what?" pick. To me he was always either a 4-3 LDE or maybe one of those jumbo OLBs for the 3-4 like we've seen around the league, including in Miami with Roth. But a 3-4 DE? Man, that's a Langford job, not a Merling job.

Not exactly like Clint Sintim or Connor Barwin have been much better though I understand those were the fan favorites at the spot we picked Pat White. Honestly I wanted Sean Smith at that spot, lol. They picked Pat White and I ordered like 3 shots from the bar right on the spot. I walked home and saw they picked up Sean Smith and that provided a small bright spot in an otherwise dark and disagreeable day.

ckparrothead
04-07-2011, 02:17 PM
2:13 to 2:39 - WTF did I just watch? At first I thought I just saw happy feet, but then it hit me that this guy has uncanny awareness to go with that amazing size and strength. At this point I'd be happy with Newton or Mallett. Both are absolutely amazing in their own ways. I guess it just comes down to A) if either or both are available at #15, and B) which skillset Ireland and Sparano prefer. Obviously if both are gone at #15, this is a moot point. But I would be ecstatic to get either of these guys.

He does have great awareness. He needs to translate that awareness and polish it up to the level that Ryan Mallett has managed to polish up his sense for pressure. The tools are there for Cam Newton, every single one he'll need. And that's not just talking physical tools, the mental ones as well.

ckparrothead
04-07-2011, 02:19 PM
And since when is Cam Newton a scrambling QB? He runs on designed passes about the same amount of time that Aaron Rodgers did last year. Try again.

There are valid criticisms of Cam Newton, and there are invalid ones. I'd file the whole "running QB" thing in the invalid folder.

ckparrothead
04-07-2011, 02:26 PM
Try again??? Look at Cam Newtons rushing yards through last year, they over 1000 tell me if aaron rodgers ever did that in college the answer is NO.... Comparing Newton to Rodgers is like Comparing a pinto to an BMW... So on your behalf try again...

I see you don't really do very much homework before spouting off some of these criticisms, so I'll try and go easy on you. Cam Newton was the Auburn Tigers' starting tailback in addition to being their starting quarterback. When they called a pass play, he threw the ball. When they called a run play, he ran the ball. Sometimes they would call a pass play and Newton would run it or scramble for positive yardage. The rate at which he did this approximates the rate at which Aaron Rodgers currently does the exact same in the NFL. Cam Newton has always been a passer. Since you probably have not seen any of his high school tape or tracked him since then, I can inform you that in high school he wasn't even close to a runner, but rather was always a passer. In fact, coming out of high school he had to go to a recruiting Combine and run a fast 40 yard dash in order to convince college recruiters that he was not purely a pocket passer and could actually move well. That's a fact. His high school offense was pro style. They only threw the bubble screen maybe once or twice a game. He went to Florida under Urban Meyer and that obviously was not quite a pro style offense, but when he transferred to Blinn College, that was a pro style offense.

The difference between people that criticize on the basis you're criticizing him, and people who do not, is usually just a matter of knowledge, rather than a matter of whether that person likes Newton or not. Even some of his fiercest critics, TedSlimmJr for example, know that there is no validity to Cam Newton being a run-first quarterback or some such. This is because TedSlimmJr is knowledgeable and knows Cam Newton's history, and is able to see things during games that perhaps a lot of other people do not.

Clipse
04-07-2011, 05:04 PM
I see you don't really do very much homework before spouting off some of these criticisms, so I'll try and go easy on you. Cam Newton was the Auburn Tigers' starting tailback in addition to being their starting quarterback. When they called a pass play, he threw the ball. When they called a run play, he ran the ball. Sometimes they would call a pass play and Newton would run it or scramble for positive yardage. The rate at which he did this approximates the rate at which Aaron Rodgers currently does the exact same in the NFL. Cam Newton has always been a passer. Since you probably have not seen any of his high school tape or tracked him since then, I can inform you that in high school he wasn't even close to a runner, but rather was always a passer. In fact, coming out of high school he had to go to a recruiting Combine and run a fast 40 yard dash in order to convince college recruiters that he was not purely a pocket passer and could actually move well. That's a fact. His high school offense was pro style. They only threw the bubble screen maybe once or twice a game. He went to Florida under Urban Meyer and that obviously was not quite a pro style offense, but when he transferred to Blinn College, that was a pro style offense.

The difference between people that criticize on the basis you're criticizing him, and people who do not, is usually just a matter of knowledge, rather than a matter of whether that person likes Newton or not. Even some of his fiercest critics, TedSlimmJr for example, know that there is no validity to Cam Newton being a run-first quarterback or some such. This is because TedSlimmJr is knowledgeable and knows Cam Newton's history, and is able to see things during games that perhaps a lot of other people do not.

This. Cam Newton isn't a running QB. He's a QB that can run, big difference imo. And that's a huge positive, where as calling someone a running QB, is a negative in my opinion. So what if Cam Newton racked up a lot of yards on designed runs. They're designed runs, and he has the talent to do that. When asked to throw the ball, he throws the ball, and does a fine job doing so.

Roonnette
04-07-2011, 05:33 PM
Cam Newton was the Auburn Tigers' starting tailback in addition to being their starting quarterback. When they called a pass play, he threw the ball. When they called a run play, he ran the ball.

I think you are wrong on this one. There is a reasaon that system is called pistol option.