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justdev7
04-07-2011, 01:58 AM
Our RB group will likely look drastically different at the start of next season. I've been considering the options that we have and a question came up. I was considering the idea that we might draft two RBs. I might be okay with two rookie RBs in terms of handling the rushing duties but I'm not sure if I would feel comfortable with two rookies handling the 3rd down protection duties.

So I guess what I'm asking is if you guys would feel comfortable with two rookie RBs and if so which two.

I was thinking if there was a combo it would probably be Kendell Hunter and Allen Bradford. I've also thought long and hard about Bradford and Dion Lewis but I'm not a comfortable with Lewis' ability to pass block. What do you guys think?

footsteps_falco
04-07-2011, 02:14 AM
Dion Lewis looked pretty good at the combine, he's that small guy right?

justdev7
04-07-2011, 04:21 AM
Dion Lewis looked pretty good at the combine, he's that small guy right?

LOL yeah he's one of the small guys. He's the one who doesn't even change speed while making cuts, it's pretty amazing

Lord Of Miami
04-07-2011, 06:03 AM
Justdev7, i think you just made a good point about why they wouldn't want a rook to be drafted as a 3 down guy.....because of 3rd down protection duties.

I know Brown wants to stay in Miami, he was a big part of why Karlos Dansby came to Miami.So Miami will just about have to beat him off with a stick for him not to come back.Plus the even bigger factor is that their are over 800 FA's right now so they may not even draft a RB at all.

With that said.........If i knew we were going to fix the Oline and the QB spot via~ free agency and after the draft trades, then i'd take Mark Ingram and then in the 3rd round i'd take who ever is still there of Hunter,Vereen,Todman.

If i was going to try and fix the RB spot on the cheap, then i'm taking guys like Delone Carter,Derrick Locke after the 3rd round.

greasyObnoxious
04-07-2011, 06:23 AM
if Miami drafts Mark Ingram, i don't think there'll be a problem with protection. he can do it. Kendall Hunter can, too. i would say there are more, but you can't really tell because RB's in college are hardly asked to pass-protect. that aside, there is still an option of bringing back Patrick Cobbs. he can pass-pro as well.

TedSlimmJr
04-07-2011, 06:42 AM
I have zero problem with drafting two running backs, and having them be the primary tandem throughout the season. If they want a rookie who's going to be able to stay on the field 3 downs and not have to worry about him in pass protection, they're going to have to take him fairly early, and even then they're going to have to be very selective.

If they intend on keeping Ronnie or Ricky to at least have some veteran presence, or sign a quality back in free agency, that allows them to focus more on getting value with the RB position in the middle/later rounds, and use the early picks on the offensive line, tight end, quarterback, etc...

I've actually been doing some mix-matching with quite a few different combinations of backs I would be satisfied with, as long as they're guys who complement what one another does best, or worst. Identify a role for these backs in your offense, and pair them up accordingly based on where you think you can get them, or where you're willing to spend the draft pick on the position...

I've come up with some really interesting combinations that I like...



Mark Ingram / Johnny White

Mikel LeShoure / Quizz Rodgers

Ryan Williams / Taiwan Jones

Delone Carter / Da'Rel Scott

Daniel Thomas / Derrick Locke

Roy Helu / Noel Devine

DeMarco Murray / Allen Bradford

Shane Vereen / Robert Hughes

Brandon Saine / Vai Taua

Anthony Allen / Nic Grigsby

Alex Green / Bilal Powell

Stevan Ridley / Dion Lewis

Jordan Todman / Jamie Harper

Kendall Hunter / Darren Evans

hooshoops
04-07-2011, 08:05 AM
slimm...any word on ingrams knee coming from your neck of the woods??? some talk of a degenerative condition there...thoughts???

as for the rb position i would absolutely turn it over to 2 rooks...we need a thunder and lightning combo and to let ronnie and ricky go...fresh young legs...no question i'd be looking to come out of this draft with at least 2 rbs

TedSlimmJr
04-07-2011, 08:32 AM
Nope. I think all of these players are going through the process of another round of medical exams.... you're going to hear about some and you're not going to hear about others. Obviously there's a reason for this...

When you see a guy free falling on draft day for no apparent reason, it's probably the one you didn't hear about...

hooshoops
04-07-2011, 08:34 AM
so whats your read on it??? legitimate issue or not with ingrams knee???

TedSlimmJr
04-07-2011, 08:44 AM
I think it's a non-issue. Mark is going to tote the rock for 6-8 years in the NFL at peak level and be a terrific pro.

If his knee is arthritic, it won't be an issue until long after his career is overwith anyway...

hooshoops
04-07-2011, 08:48 AM
the weird thing is the rumor i've heard is it may be 12-18 months before he's right with the knee...when i hear that kinda time frame it screams microfracture surgery to me

anyways...i haven't yet heard your take on who you would target at #15 if you were miami??? and you don't get the easy route of trade out unless you name names in that scenario ha ha...give me a stay at #15 and a trade out if you want

TedSlimmJr
04-07-2011, 08:58 AM
If he has no cartilage in his knee and needs microfracture surgery that's a different issue. I mean none of us will get to look inside his knee any time soon so it's impossible to know.. We'll know how teams feel about it on draft day, either he'll slide or he won't.

At #15 I'm looking at Ryan Mallett or Mark Ingram...


Reach: I like Mike Pouncey.


I like all sorts of options in a trade down scenario...

j-off-her-doll
04-07-2011, 09:05 AM
I have zero problem with drafting two running backs, and having them be the primary tandem throughout the season. If they want a rookie who's going to be able to stay on the field 3 downs and not have to worry about him in pass protection, they're going to have to take him fairly early, and even then they're going to have to be very selective.

If they intend on keeping Ronnie or Ricky to at least have some veteran presence, or sign a quality back in free agency, that allows them to focus more on getting value with the RB position in the middle/later rounds, and use the early picks on the offensive line, tight end, quarterback, etc...

I've actually been doing some mix-matching with quite a few different combinations of backs I would be satisfied with, as long as they're guys who complement what one another does best, or worst. Identify a role for these backs in your offense, and pair them up accordingly based on where you think you can get them, or where you're willing to spend the draft pick on the position...

I've come up with some really interesting combinations that I like...



Mark Ingram / Johnny White

Mikel LeShoure / Quizz Rodgers

Ryan Williams / Taiwan Jones

Delone Carter / Da'Rel Scott

Daniel Thomas / Derrick Locke

Roy Helu / Noel Devine

DeMarco Murray / Allen Bradford

Shane Vereen / Robert Hughes

Brandon Saine / Vai Taua

Anthony Allen / Nic Grigsby

Alex Green / Bilal Powell

Stevan Ridley / Dion Lewis

Jordan Todman / Jamie Harper

Kendall Hunter / Darren Evans

I put in bold the combinations that I find either very appealing or very interesting, and I double highlighted the Helu/Devine one. I like Helu a good deal. I actually think the pairing is interesting and potentially very successful. I was just under the impression that you wanted nothing to do with Devine.

j-off-her-doll
04-07-2011, 09:07 AM
I actually meant to bold the Carter and Thomas pairings too. I think you put together very nice groupings in general.

If both were on the board, and you had them at the top of your board (in whatever round), and you hadn't drafted a RB yet (so you still had time to draft Scott and/or Locke) which player would you draft?

TedSlimmJr
04-07-2011, 09:17 AM
I absolutely love that Delone Carter / Da'Rel Scott pairing... my second favorite behind Ingram / Johnny White.

If I can get my feature back in the first 3 rounds (ex. Helu / Devine), I might take a shot on Devine late in the 6th/7th rounds complement him. If Devine isn't there, I wouldn't sweat it. I'd move right along with a guy like Nic Grigsby and consider myself better off anyway...

I'd take Da'Rel Scott over Derrick Locke provided they're both available, if that's what you were asking.

j-off-her-doll
04-07-2011, 09:21 AM
I actually meant to ask who you would prefer between Carter and Thomas.

TedSlimmJr
04-07-2011, 09:31 AM
That's a close one for me, I like both backs.

But I've long been a Delone Carter guy, going back to his junior season... made the thread prior to the start of this season which pointed out that he was one of my most underrated prospects in the country.

Honestly, there's only 2 backs in this draft I like more than Delone Carter, and they're both potential 1st round picks. Ingram and LeShoure...

j-off-her-doll
04-07-2011, 09:39 AM
That's a close one for me, I like both backs.

But I've long been a Delone Carter guy, going back to his junior season... made the thread prior to the start of this season which pointed out that he was one of my most underrated prospects in the country.

Honestly, there's only 2 backs in this draft I like more than Delone Carter, and they're both potential 1st round picks. Ingram and LeShoure...

I agree that it's close. In the mock a few of my friends and I are doing, we (3 Dolphins fans share the pick) came to that crossroads, and Carter just edged out Thomas. I'd be pretty happy with either in Miami.

hooshoops
04-07-2011, 09:50 AM
i like thomas but imo he's a little too upright doesn't run with great body lean...not to mention he's very long...good lateral quickness imo and can make guys miss in tight spaces...which if you look at a lot of that k state tape he was dodging guys from the moment he took the ball in the backfield...

thomas in a lot of ways reminds me of ronnie brown...and thats not necessarily a great thing...but i do think thomas has better vision than brown but that brown displayed better top end speed on tape when he came out

carter showed me some things at the combine but i don't think he's got much wiggle on tape...at any rate he's grown on me...i wouldn't hate a 3rd rounder on carter

TedSlimmJr
04-07-2011, 10:05 AM
i like thomas but imo he's a little too upright doesn't run with great body lean...not to mention he's very long...good lateral quickness imo and can make guys miss in tight spaces...which if you look at a lot of that k state tape he was dodging guys from the moment he took the ball in the backfield...

thomas in a lot of ways reminds me of ronnie brown...and thats not necessarily a great thing...although i think brown had better top end speed on tape when he came out

carter showed me some things at the combine but i don't think he's got much wiggle on tape...at any rate he's grown on me...i wouldn't hate a 3rd rounder on carter


Ronnie is a good comparison for Thomas, similar in a lot of ways.. Ronnie had better top end speed.


Daniel Thomas has always reminded me of Antowain Smith coming out of Houston a few years back. Both were JUCO transfers out of Mississippi, and have similar styles with similar strengths and weaknesses.

hooshoops
04-07-2011, 10:19 AM
Ronnie is a good comparison for Thomas, similar in a lot of ways.. Ronnie had better top end speed.


Daniel Thomas has always reminded me of Antowain Smith coming out of Houston a few years back. Both were JUCO transfers out of Mississippi, and have similar styles with similar strengths and weaknesses.

yeah but unless i'm mistaken wasn't antowain smith awfully fleet a foot for his size??? didn't he run in the like the mid 4.4's when he came out??? i remember him being very fast and a load but not all that elusive

TedSlimmJr
04-07-2011, 10:33 AM
Smith didn't play any faster in pads than Daniel Thomas does... both are elusive for bigger backs. The only real difference is Smith had fumbling issues whereas that's not a problem with Thomas.

j-off-her-doll
04-07-2011, 11:59 AM
I see Brown and Thomas as very comparable backs.

justdev7
04-07-2011, 02:13 PM
If he has no cartilage in his knee and needs microfracture surgery that's a different issue.


That's what happened with Brandon Roy.... bad stuff

justdev7
04-07-2011, 02:17 PM
thomas in a lot of ways reminds me of ronnie brown...and thats not necessarily a great thing...


I couldn't agree more. He's a pretty long guy that makes a lot of unnecessary lateral movements

Hibachi
04-07-2011, 04:56 PM
Put me in the Delone Carter camp as well. I think he will be a Dolphin come draft day. The pairing I would love to see is Delone Carter and Taiwan Jones or Carter/Lewis.

justdev7
04-10-2011, 05:29 PM
A combo that is really starting to sound good to me is Bradford and Hunter. Carter and Hunter wouldn't be bad either. Really, I just like Kendell Hunter. I thought he'd probably be the 4th RB off the board but I'm not sure if that will be in the 2nd or 3rd round. I think Kendell Hunter is going to be special.

Fintastic2124
04-10-2011, 06:34 PM
Sign me up for Carter and Toddman.

Roonnette
04-10-2011, 06:58 PM
So I guess what I'm asking is if you guys would feel comfortable with two rookie RBs and if so which two.



Taiwan JOnes. Phins must draft Taiwan Jones. All other RBs are run of the mill, dime a dozen, you can plug them in and have decent production. Taiwan is special.

Austin Tatious
04-10-2011, 07:02 PM
The guy I like is Ryan Williams. If we trade down in the first and pick up a late second, I would be interested in Williams in the second. I saw him as a first round talent coming into 2010. I think he would provide some juice to the offense.

Taiwan Jones would be a nice pickup if he made it to the 4th but Mayock doesn't think he makes it past the 3rd.

I would not be averse to Ronnie coming back in a role similar to Willis McGahaee's in Baltimore last year.

X-Pacolypse
04-10-2011, 07:06 PM
I still think Miami will wind up trading down and drafting Leshoure. Hopefully, they'll complement him with a speed back like Vereen, Lewis, or Powell.

Austin Tatious
04-10-2011, 07:07 PM
Taiwan JOnes. Phins must draft Taiwan Jones. All other RBs are run of the mill, dime a dozen, you can plug them in and have decent production. Taiwan is special.

I like your approach. Mallett and Taiwan coming out of this draft would add some serious home run capability to the offense. I'd love it. I just don't know if that is what Miami will do. Just a hunch, but I can see a trade down in the first and taking Kaepernick, getting Ryan Williams in the second, and DJ Williams in the third.

Roonnette
04-10-2011, 07:22 PM
I like your approach. Mallett and Taiwan coming out of this draft would add some serious home run capability to the offense. I'd love it. I just don't know if that is what Miami will do. Just a hunch, but I can see a trade down in the first and taking Kaepernick, getting Ryan Williams in the second, and DJ Williams in the third.

THat's right. Phins must take chances on special. Give me Mallett and Taiwan.

Then add Austin Pettis. The guy reminds me of Biletnikoff. Sticky hands, reliable target, has knack for space, big. Then go after Julius Thomas, the basketball player turned TE. And then they can take a bruiser for redzone TDs in later rounds like Saine or something like that.

Mallett, Taiwan, Pettis, Julius Thomas. That's exciting draft imo.

justdev7
04-10-2011, 07:44 PM
THat's right. Phins must take chances on special. Give me Mallett and Taiwan.

Then add Austin Pettis. The guy reminds me of Biletnikoff. Sticky hands, reliable target, has knack for space, big. Then go after Julius Thomas, the basketball player turned TE. And then they can take a bruiser for redzone TDs in later rounds like Saine or something like that.

Mallett, Taiwan, Pettis, Julius Thomas. That's exciting draft imo.


I'll pass on pettis. We already have two great possession receivers. We need one or two guys to open things up for them. Pettis could end up being a good wr but he's no speedster
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ckparrothead
04-10-2011, 10:12 PM
Delone Carter has become one of my favorite backs in the Draft as well. He's got real good tape, and he's been even better coasting through All Star and Combine stuff.

The thing that disturbs me still about Mikel LeShoure is that he doesn't have any vision from the backfield. But he's good at what he does, shaking people in the open. Explosive. And he can catch the ball.

I like Ryan Williams and Kendall Hunter a lot. A lot of lateral ability in those two.

I love Johnny White. Extremely underrated and very competitive, well-rounded player.

Daniel Thomas didn't do it for me in 2009, thought he was too upright, too much of a raw runner...but in 2010 he impressed me a great deal, lowered his pad level and ran with more instinct, better tailback form.

I think of Jordan Todman as potentially another LeSean McCoy.

And Dion Lewis is tremendously underrated as a slash and dash guy...not to mention a workhorse.

I would take Bilal Powell any day. Makes people miss, has some speed and athleticism to him. His instincts and vision are coming around.

Guys like Brandon Saine and Allen Bradford I would definitely take on my team because I know exactly what I'd do with them and how they'd be valuable to me.

DuJuan Harris and Philip Sylvester are both underrated. They should get a shot in the NFL.

Roonnette
04-10-2011, 10:18 PM
Delone Carter is a shoe-in for every down back in NFL.

RockyMtnPhinfan
04-11-2011, 09:00 AM
Jordan Todman / Jamie Harper would be my first choice on these pairings with Helu / Devine running a close second!

I foresee Brown staying in a third down back role and having two young guys learn from him. Ricky is frustrated and so i think the coaching staff sets him out to sea.

There is SO MUCH potential talent in the RB division this draft i find it difficult to believe our FO will spend #15 on Ingram.

ckparrothead
04-11-2011, 10:52 AM
Roy Helu, Jr has always reminded me of a track guy with some natural size to him playing tailback. Just seemed like things were so easy with that Nebraska offensive line often ripping open four lane highways for him to run thru, and from there his speed (which IMO has always been evident) could just take over. I know Simon disagrees with me and likes Helu a lot, but I can see why Roy's critics continue to be doubters. Regardless, considering he's not getting high grades and he won't go very high, even as a doubter I can't say that he's going to end up being a bust or anything like that. He's not going to go very high and when you get down to the depths of the Draft you could do a lot worse than rolling the dice on a guy with his athleticism.

Jamie Harper...just not a big fan. Thought maybe he'd take a step up from what he was before which was just a big guy with some natural ability, but where I thought Daniel Thomas actually took that step...I didn't see it in Jamie Harper.

As for Devine...I liked him at first, probably liked more the idea of him and his highlights, but the more I dug the less I liked.

TedSlimmJr
04-11-2011, 11:04 AM
I agree Helu isn't special by any stretch, he's just a fairly talented back with a lot of the requisite tools to be a productive pro. Although he's had glimpses of a specific issue than anyone that knows me is aware that I absolutely will not stand for in a tailback... fumbles.

Helu has had some games where ball security is an issue (the Oklahoma game specifically). It hasn't been an issue to the point where I would have little interest in him, which I've been known to do with some pretty talented running backs, but it's something that is a little more of an issue with him than some of the other backs I like.

ckparrothead
04-11-2011, 11:24 AM
Helu to me is just not that different from Brandon Saine and Da'Rel Scott...two similar athletes that you can point in the direction of a nice hole and let them run. But Saine gives you some almost WR-like characteristics in the passing game.

TedSlimmJr
04-11-2011, 11:33 AM
Absolutely, and I'm in the market for a little versatility at running back this year.

Most any back can produce when the offensive line is dominating and moving people off the ball, but I think what a lot of people don't realize is that the biggest hole isn't necessarily the best hole, this is what seperates great runners from the pack.

There's a reason why Mark Ingram is the best running back in the draft in my opinion, and it ain't because a bunch of people repeat it...

hooshoops
04-11-2011, 12:30 PM
helu lacks vision...not a fan