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Elliott 1
04-07-2011, 08:26 PM
QB Qualifications:

Body of work: Advantage Kaepernick. Kaepernick was a 4 year starter who holds several NCAA records.

Arm Strength: Equal. Kaepernick threw one mph faster on the gun at the combine.

Accuracy: Advantage Kaepernick. Kaepernick had the better completion% the last two years.

Leadership: Advantage Kaepernick. Polar opposites here. The drafts best and worst.

Intelligence: Advantage Kaepernick. Kap has recieved academic recognition his whole life and had the highest wonderlic of any of the top 8 QB's in this draft. Mallett had one of the lowest scores among QB's on the wonderlic.

Character: Advantage Kaepernick. All the other issues aside, Kaepernicks pure love of the game that is more than just a subjective observation(he could have been a millionaire right out of HS if he chose a baseball career)will, more than anything else, always cause him to give more of himself than 99.9% of the rest.

Athleticism: Advantage Kaepernick. Again, one of this draft's best and this draft's worst.

Kaepernick 6.......Even 1........Mallett O

Is it any wonder the Dolphins FO likes Kaepernick?

thejetssuck
04-07-2011, 08:38 PM
Your arguments are so full of FAIL I don't even know where to begin. I am now a dumber person for having read your ridiculous post. Mallett for me all day everyday.

beanh8er
04-07-2011, 08:47 PM
God your argument is so objective...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

vagrantprodigy
04-07-2011, 08:51 PM
If that is correct, then why is Mallett a possible first rounder, and Kaepernick a second-third rounder?

Fintastic2124
04-07-2011, 09:37 PM
Totally wrong. Mallet's arm and footwork is light years ahead of Kaepernick's. Anyday.

PhinsPhan11
04-07-2011, 09:42 PM
I would take Mallett over him any time.

Kdawg954
04-07-2011, 09:52 PM
this guy . . . . :lol:

Kdawg954
04-07-2011, 09:54 PM
If we pick up Bulger and Drew Stanton and draft Tyrod later on . . . your QB dream will be complete . . . right?

justdev7
04-07-2011, 11:42 PM
Is this a serious question?

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

Clipse
04-08-2011, 12:07 AM
If we pick up Bulger and Drew Stanton and draft Tyrod later on . . . your QB dream will be complete . . . right?

I just threw up in my mouth reading this. Please tell me this isn't what this Elliot character wants. Please.

Clipse
04-08-2011, 12:10 AM
Terrible thread. Kaepernick blows, and anyone drafting him in the 1st 5 rounds to play QB is making a mistake. He's a project at best. Mallett > Kaepernick no matter what your biased "QB Qualifications" has to say.

Harry Csonka
04-08-2011, 03:07 AM
You failed to consider Throwing mechanics, foot work, and the level of competition each played against.

justdev7
04-08-2011, 03:33 AM
god your argument is so objective...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfyjsqahl0

lmao!!!!!

emeraldfin
04-08-2011, 05:02 AM
Delighted I took the time to read this.

phinfan1983
04-08-2011, 05:38 AM
Neither. Go for Ponder.

BostonPhin4
04-08-2011, 07:16 AM
QB Qualifications:

Body of work: Advantage Kaepernick. Kaepernick was a 4 year starter who holds several NCAA records.

Arm Strength: Equal. Kaepernick threw one mph faster on the gun at the combine.

Accuracy: Advantage Kaepernick. Kaepernick had the better completion% the last two years.

Leadership: Advantage Kaepernick. Polar opposites here. The drafts best and worst.

Intelligence: Advantage Kaepernick. Kap has recieved academic recognition his whole life and had the highest wonderlic of any of the top 8 QB's in this draft. Mallett had one of the lowest scores among QB's on the wonderlic.

Character: Advantage Kaepernick. All the other issues aside, Kaepernicks pure love of the game that is more than just a subjective observation(he could have been a millionaire right out of HS if he chose a baseball career)will, more than anything else, always cause him to give more of himself than 99.9% of the rest.

Athleticism: Advantage Kaepernick. Again, one of this draft's best and this draft's worst.

Kaepernick 6.......Even 1........Mallett O

Is it any wonder the Dolphins FO likes Kaepernick?



I lol'd. Thanks for the laugh before work today!

RockyMtnPhinfan
04-08-2011, 08:59 AM
If that is correct, then why is Mallett a possible first rounder, and Kaepernick a second-third rounder?

Because Kaepernick has to touch his knee with the ball during his wind up :)

TedSlimmJr
04-08-2011, 09:14 AM
Body of Work: -- I'll take 2 years worth of starting experience in a pro style offense against SEC competition, over 4 years in the "pistol" padding stats against kids that can't stop the SEC's backups and 3rd stringers from blowing them out by 40+ points.

Advantage - Mallett


Arm Strength: -- Mallett's freak arm strength shows up ON FILM CONSISTENLY...by making NFL caliber throws. Anyone that thinks Mallett was throwing at anything more than 80% at the combine needs to return to the village.... it's missing the idiot.

Advantage - Mallett



Accuracy: -- Completion percentage =/= Accuracy. Anyone who takes the time to discuss draft prospects should know that by now. Ryan Mallett's ball location against tight press coverage, back shoulder throws, deep fly patterns, crossing routes, screens, flares, posts, outs, and anything 25+ yards downfield is better than any quarterback in this draft.

Advantage - Mallett



Leadership: -- Ryan Mallett was voted a team captain from the moment he stepped on campus in Fayetteville. He was a general on the field when it was time for him to assert himself and get everyone's head out of their ***. Mallett's teammates, and opposing SEC coaches know exactly what type of leader he was.

Advantage - Mallett



Intelligence: -- Football IQ - Mallett. One-dur-lik = Kaepernick.


Advantage - Wash



Character: -- I'll actually give Kaepernick a distinct advantage here on paper. I think he's a good kid.

Advantage - Kaepernick



Athleticism: -- Kaepernick is one of the best athletes at quarterback in this draft. Eric Crouch was a better athlete than Tom Brady too....

Advantage - Wash





Versus Ranked Opponents:

Ryan Mallett - 63.1% completion / 9.1 YPA / 14 TD's, 9 INT's (152.31 QB rating)

Colin Kaepernick - 54.3% completion / 7.4 YPA / 1 TD, 1 INT (120.17 QB rating)


(Advantage - Mallett)



Versus Division-1 Opponents:

Ryan Mallett - 63.3% completion / 9.2 YPA / 29 TD's, 11 INT's / (159.81 QB rating)

Colin Kaepernick - 64.3% completion / 8.4 YPA / 19 TD's, 8 INT's (149.64 QB rating)

(Advantage - Mallett)



Versus Non-Division-1 Oppenents (FCS):

Ryan Mallett - 87.5% completions / 12.5 YPA / 3 TD's, 1 INT (225.77 QB rating)

Colin Kaepernick - 70.2% completions / 8.3 YPA / 2 TD's, 0 INT (157.58 QB rating)

(Advantage - Mallett)



Versus Winning Teams:

Ryan Mallett - 63.1% completions / 9.1 YPA / 14 TD's, 9 INT's (152.31 QB rating)

Colin Kapernick - 58.6% completions / 6.7 YPA / 5 TD's, 6 INT's (118.32 QB rating)

(Advantage - Mallett)



Versus BCS Opponents:

Ryan Mallett - 62.3% completions / 9.3 YPA / 21 TD's, 10 INT's (155.76 QB rating)

Colin Kaepernick - 62.5% completions / 7.8 YPA / 3 TD's, 1 INT (144.24 QB rating)

(Advantage - Mallett)



Inside the Red-Zone:

Ryan Mallett - 59.6% completions / 17 TD's, 3 INT's (202.81 QB rating)

Colin Kaepernick - 56.6% completions / 11 TD's, 2 INT's (155.58 QB rating)

(Advantage - Mallett)





Brad Smith held a bunch of rushing/passing NCAA records too... he's playing WR in the NFL. So did Pat White. Dan LeFevour held a bunch of rushing/passing NCAA records for a quarterback too... he hasn't even so much as taken an NFL snap.

Anytime you get a good enough athlete playing in the right gimmick system for 4 years in conferences that can't even spell defense, there's going to be "records" set. Those records aren't going to help you play quarterback in the NFL...

hooshoops
04-08-2011, 09:36 AM
wow...this thread fails on so many levels...i swear elliott is just out to be the devils advocate with some of the stuff he comes up with...drew staunton??? lmao...i fell out of my chair when i read that the 1st time

ckparrothead
04-08-2011, 10:30 AM
Body of Work: -- I'll take 2 years worth of starting experience in a pro style offense against SEC competition, over 4 years in the "pistol" padding stats against kids that can't stop the SEC's backups and 3rd stringers from blowing them out by 40+ points.

Advantage - Mallett


Arm Strength: -- Mallett's freak arm strength shows up ON FILM CONSISTENLY...by making NFL caliber throws. Anyone that thinks Mallett was throwing at anything more than 80% at the combine needs to return to the village.... it's missing the idiot.

Advantage - Mallett



Accuracy: -- Completion percentage =/= Accuracy. Anyone who takes the time to discuss draft prospects should know that by now. Ryan Mallett's ball location against tight press coverage, back shoulder throws, deep fly patterns, crossing routes, screens, flares, posts, outs, and anything 25+ yards downfield is better than any quarterback in this draft.

Advantage - Mallett



Leadership: -- Ryan Mallett was voted a team captain from the moment he stepped on campus in Fayetteville. He was a general on the field when it was time for him to assert himself and get everyone's head out of their ***. Mallett's teammates, and opposing SEC coaches know exactly what type of leader he was.

Advantage - Mallett



Intelligence: -- Football IQ - Mallett. One-dur-lik = Kaepernick.


Advantage - Wash



Character: -- I'll actually give Kaepernick a distinct advantage here on paper. I think he's a good kid.

Advantage - Kaepernick



Athleticism: -- Kaepernick is one of the best athletes at quarterback in this draft. Eric Crouch was a better athlete than Tom Brady too....

Advantage - Wash





Versus Ranked Opponents:

Ryan Mallett - 63.1% completion / 9.1 YPA / 14 TD's, 9 INT's (152.31 QB rating)

Colin Kaepernick - 54.3% completion / 7.4 YPA / 1 TD, 1 INT (120.17 QB rating)


(Advantage - Mallett)



Versus Division-1 Opponents:

Ryan Mallett - 63.3% completion / 9.2 YPA / 29 TD's, 11 INT's / (159.81 QB rating)

Colin Kaepernick - 64.3% completion / 8.4 YPA / 19 TD's, 8 INT's (149.64 QB rating)

(Advantage - Mallett)



Versus Non-Division-1 Oppenents (FCS):

Ryan Mallett - 87.5% completions / 12.5 YPA / 3 TD's, 1 INT (225.77 QB rating)

Colin Kaepernick - 70.2% completions / 8.3 YPA / 2 TD's, 0 INT (157.58 QB rating)

(Advantage - Mallett)



Versus Winning Teams:

Ryan Mallett - 63.1% completions / 9.1 YPA / 14 TD's, 9 INT's (152.31 QB rating)

Colin Kapernick - 58.6% completions / 6.7 YPA / 5 TD's, 6 INT's (118.32 QB rating)

(Advantage - Mallett)



Versus BCS Opponents:

Ryan Mallett - 62.3% completions / 9.3 YPA / 21 TD's, 10 INT's (155.76 QB rating)

Colin Kaepernick - 62.5% completions / 7.8 YPA / 3 TD's, 1 INT (144.24 QB rating)

(Advantage - Mallett)



Inside the Red-Zone:

Ryan Mallett - 59.6% completions / 17 TD's, 3 INT's (202.81 QB rating)

Colin Kaepernick - 56.6% completions / 11 TD's, 2 INT's (155.58 QB rating)

(Advantage - Mallett)





Brad Smith held a bunch of rushing/passing NCAA records too... he's playing WR in the NFL. So did Pat White. Dan LeFevour held a bunch of rushing/passing NCAA records for a quarterback too... he hasn't even so much as taken an NFL snap.

Anytime you get a good enough athlete playing in the right gimmick system for 4 years in conferences that can't even spell defense, there's going to be "records" set. Those records aren't going to help you play quarterback in the NFL...

This is MUCH more accurate. Although Athleticism a wash? Seriously? I think it's OK to throw Kaepernick a bone, especially when he actually deserves it.

ckparrothead
04-08-2011, 10:32 AM
BTW, these in particular....REALLY stand out. Especially the ones versus Non-D1 opponents, and the one versus WINNING teams. People have to consider also that Ryan Mallett did not necessarily have that much better a surrounding cast than Colin Kaepernick. There aren't a bunch of OLs on Arkansas that are better than the OLs on Nevada. D.J. Williams versus Virgil Green is a virtual tie, to me. And I don't personally believe that Arkansas has a player of Rishard Matthews' talent level, not even Greg Childs who is a bit slow and doesn't get a ton of separation (not to mention he plays a bit stupid and selfish at times). My opinion is that Joe Adams is probably the better player compared with Childs, but even he isn't a Rishard Matthews IMO. The only area I see with a distinct advantage for Arkansas would be the backs, and one of the backs that has the advantage over Nevada's Vai Taua, didn't even play this year.


Versus Ranked Opponents:
Ryan Mallett - 63.1% completion / 9.1 YPA / 14 TD's, 9 INT's (152.31 QB rating)
Colin Kaepernick - 54.3% completion / 7.4 YPA / 1 TD, 1 INT (120.17 QB rating)
(Advantage - Mallett)

Versus Non-Division-1 Oppenents (FCS):
Ryan Mallett - 87.5% completions / 12.5 YPA / 3 TD's, 1 INT (225.77 QB rating)
Colin Kaepernick - 70.2% completions / 8.3 YPA / 2 TD's, 0 INT (157.58 QB rating)
(Advantage - Mallett)

Versus Winning Teams:
Ryan Mallett - 63.1% completions / 9.1 YPA / 14 TD's, 9 INT's (152.31 QB rating)
Colin Kapernick - 58.6% completions / 6.7 YPA / 5 TD's, 6 INT's (118.32 QB rating)
(Advantage - Mallett)

TedSlimmJr
04-08-2011, 10:39 AM
This is MUCH more accurate. Although Athleticism a wash? Seriously? I think it's OK to throw Kaepernick a bone, especially when he actually deserves it.


If they were going to be running routes and catching passes against Darrelle Revis and Nnamdi Asomugha, I'd be more inclined to consider athleticism an advantage for Kaepernick.

But since they're going to be playing quarterback in the NFL, I can't consider it anything other than a wash. Kaepernick's athleticism wasn't even an advantage over Mallett when it came to facing college defenses, much less in the NFL.

ckparrothead
04-08-2011, 10:41 AM
If they were going to be running routes and catching passes against Darrelle Revis and Nnamdi Asomugha, I'd be more inclined to consider athleticism an advantage for Kaepernick.

But since they're going to be playing quarterback in the NFL, I can't consider it anything other than a wash. Kaepernick's athleticism wasn't even an advantage over Mallett when it came to facing college defenses, much less in the NFL.

Then you shouldn't bother listing the comparison. If you're going to list it, you've got to be truthful about it. Athleticism is not a wash. You're just saying it's not important.

TedSlimmJr
04-08-2011, 10:42 AM
BTW, these in particular....REALLY stand out. Especially the ones versus Non-D1 opponents, and the one versus WINNING teams. People have to consider also that Ryan Mallett did not necessarily have that much better a surrounding cast than Colin Kaepernick. There aren't a bunch of OLs on Arkansas that are better than the OLs on Nevada. D.J. Williams versus Virgil Green is a virtual tie, to me. And I don't personally believe that Arkansas has a player of Rishard Matthews' talent level, not even Greg Childs who is a bit slow and doesn't get a ton of separation (not to mention he plays a bit stupid and selfish at times). My opinion is that Joe Adams is probably the better player compared with Childs, but even he isn't a Rishard Matthews IMO. The only area I see with a distinct advantage for Arkansas would be the backs, and one of the backs that has the advantage over Nevada's Vai Taua, didn't even play this year.



Agree with every single word of this...

TedSlimmJr
04-08-2011, 10:45 AM
Then you shouldn't bother listing the comparison. If you're going to list it, you've got to be truthful about it. Athleticism is not a wash. You're just saying it's not important.


I'm not saying it's not important... I'm saying it's not going to be an advantage when it comes down to who's the better quarterback in the NFL..

ckparrothead
04-08-2011, 10:48 AM
You should describe then as pocket presense, or pressure sense, or some such. I mean, that's the sort of thing that casts doubt on the entire analysis, because it makes you look biased. Kaepernick is leagues better as an athlete as opposed to Mallett. Is he a better athlete though than Cam Newton, Christian Ponder or Blaine Gabbert? I would argue no.

TedSlimmJr
04-08-2011, 10:53 AM
No, Kaepernick IS a better athlete. I clearly stated that he's one of the best athletes among the quarterbacks....

..but it's not an ADVANTAGE over Ryan Mallett... period. It's a wash, Ryan Mallett being better at so many other things makes it such...

hooshoops
04-08-2011, 11:03 AM
the only thing about kaep as an athlete is for me he comes off as very straightlinish...but yeah he's a much better athlete than mallet...

TedSlimmJr
04-08-2011, 11:11 AM
Patrick Peterson is the best athlete in the entire draft, but I wouldn't consider it an advantage over Ryan Mallett when it comes to playing the quarterback position..

SamIam
04-08-2011, 11:16 AM
Don't mean Hijacking this thread but why is no talk about Ricky Stanzi?

He has great size, tough, well coached, can make all the throws, played against great competition, plenty arm strength, a leader on and off the field.

TedSlimmJr
04-08-2011, 11:23 AM
Don't mean Hijacking this thread but why is no talk about Ricky Stanzi?

He has great size, tough, well coached, can make all the throws, played against great competition, plenty arm strength, a leader on and off the field.


Personally I like Stanzi...a lot. We've discussed him at length in several different Stanzi threads.

But he's not an option in the 1st round... I think people generally are more interested in talking about the more compelling and polarizing quarterback prospects that are legitimate options for Miami in the 1st round..

Most people are likely sick and tired of seeing Miami bargain shopping at the quarterback position, so they really don't have tremendous interest in devoting a substantial amount of conversation on anymore second tier quarterbacks..

ckparrothead
04-08-2011, 11:30 AM
I do have some questions about Stanzi's decision-making that never seem to go away. I think he and T.J. Yates compare in many ways but I just feel like there are more superlative tools in Yates' toolbox (footwork and release-oriented stuff) that could help him morph from a player that wasn't enough to a player that has what it takes.

Both players have a history of making stupid decisions as recently as 2009. But when I dig more closely into the stupid throws Yates made both in 2009 and 2010, I understood them more than stupid throws I saw Stanzi make in both years.

j-off-her-doll
04-08-2011, 11:38 AM
Patrick Peterson is the best athlete in the entire draft, but I wouldn't consider it an advantage over Ryan Mallett when it comes to playing the quarterback position..

I can see - down the line - Peterson playing some WR, kind of the way D. Sanders was used in Dallas.

footsteps_falco
04-08-2011, 12:13 PM
QB Qualifications:

Body of work: Advantage Kaepernick. Kaepernick was a 4 year starter who holds several NCAA records.
Mallett Plays against SEC. Specifically left Michigan because he didn't wanna play in a spread like system.

Arm Strength: Equal. Kaepernick threw one mph faster on the gun at the combine.
Mallett throws the ball further then him he can make the rare throw.

Accuracy: Advantage Kaepernick. Kaepernick had the better completion% the last two years.
Doubt Kaepernick would have a better completion % in the NFL, let alone start. His accuracy was .2% better this year. he threw the ball 1000 less yards and like 4 less TDs as well.

Leadership: Advantage Kaepernick. Polar opposites here. The drafts best and worst.
Not true, Mallett might not be mr. happy go luck but he's definitely a leader and one a team will respect. Kaepernick is more of a pushover, i doubt he garners respect in the NFL like Mallett could. i doubt kaepernick can "Tame" Marshall.

Intelligence: Advantage Kaepernick. Kap has recieved academic recognition his whole life and had the highest wonderlic of any of the top 8 QB's in this draft. Mallett had one of the lowest scores among QB's on the wonderlic.
Though this may be true, Mallett has proven he can handle a Pro style offense. He can make all the reads and adjustments. his coaches trust him to make these calls at the line. My guess is mallett has been slinging that damn ball his whole life every day. I would guess he has 908129897 more reps then kaepernick. wonderlic isn't everything. and mallett has already proven he can handle a pro style system.

Character: Advantage Kaepernick. All the other issues aside, Kaepernicks pure love of the game that is more than just a subjective observation(he could have been a millionaire right out of HS if he chose a baseball career)will, more than anything else, always cause him to give more of himself than 99.9% of the rest.

This is only a maybe to me. though as of right now yes kaepernick may have a better character. Mallett to me doesn't seem like a guy who's going to be getting in trouble going forward. maybe he had some issues or things like that in the past. he's not a murder or anything he's just a young QB.

Athleticism: Advantage Kaepernick. Again, one of this draft's best and this draft's worst.
Probably true but mallett can take a hit. i also highly doubt that mallett is anywhere near his athletic peak. a year or 2 in an NFL conditioning program and you'll see a guy blossom into something amazing. IF i'm picking a QB in the top end of the draft, i'm picking the one who can throw it like nobody else but we might need to train to run and workout a little. not the guy who we have to teach how to throw...
Kaepernick 6.......Even 1........Mallett O

Is it any wonder the Dolphins FO likes Kaepernick?

thats how i feel

hooshoops
04-08-2011, 12:39 PM
I can see - down the line - Peterson playing some WR, kind of the way D. Sanders was used in Dallas.

bad idea...honestly even playing him on specials returns is a bad idea...you could lose your franchise cb worst case franchise free safety top 5 pick cause you made him your kick returner...if pat peterson is gonna be lost for the year it should be as your every down player not cause some kamikazee specials coverage guy rolled up into his legs

this is no different for me than with dez last year...i'm not putting my top 5 bpa stud position player out there to get hurt returning kicks on specials...its too risky...

datruth55
04-08-2011, 02:55 PM
Don't know if anyone has seen this or if it's been posted but here you go.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0uBItsSJI&feature=player_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ7xfvFgZ1E&feature=related

ckparrothead
04-08-2011, 04:41 PM
I'm really not usually a big fan of the Sports Science segments. Or at least, I LOVE some of them...others, meh.

I mean, if you want fancy gadgetry that tells you John Skelton is the most awesome quarterback who ever lived, just don't ever pay attention to what Skelton does on the football field, then by all means...Sports Science is the way to go.

They do some really cool things sometimes, but other times it's just like....NUMBERS!!!!!! WE HAVE NUMBERS!!!!!!!!!! IT'S SCIENCE BECAUSE THERE ARE NUMBERS INVOLVED!!!!!!!

Elliott 1
04-08-2011, 05:17 PM
Wow, some of you guys could get together and declare the world to be flat again.

Some of these posts should be entered in the Guiness Book Of World Records for the deepest BS.

Mallett having a better body or work than the 4 yr starter with the NCAA records????????? That is utterly absurd. You can prognosticate and say for whatever reason you beleive Mallett will be a better NFL QB, but you cannot say he had a better collegiate body of work. It is a blatant lie.

Mallett a better leader than Kaepernick?? No NFL scout in the country would agree with that, and you know it.

So you don't like Kap to be the Dolphins QB. Fine, shout it from the rooftops; but all these posts of ridiculous crap just damage your respectibility.

Kaepernick has over 4000 thousand yards rushing, but Christian Ponder is a better athlete???????? Actually, the way some of these posts were twisting it all, I am surprised nobody tried to say Mallett was a better athlete.

Clipse
04-08-2011, 06:03 PM
Wow, some of you guys could get together and declare the world to be flat again.

Some of these posts should be entered in the Guiness Book Of World Records for the deepest BS.

Mallett having a better body or work than the 4 yr starter with the NCAA records????????? That is utterly absurd. You can prognosticate and say for whatever reason you beleive Mallett will be a better NFL QB, but you cannot say he had a better collegiate body of work. It is a blatant lie.

Mallett a better leader than Kaepernick?? No NFL scout in the country would agree with that, and you know it.

So you don't like Kap to be the Dolphins QB. Fine, shout it from the rooftops; but all these posts of ridiculous crap just damage your respectibility.

Kaepernick has over 4000 thousand yards rushing, but Christian Ponder is a better athlete???????? Actually, the way some of these posts were twisting it all, I am surprised nobody tried to say Mallett was a better athlete.

Take a look in the mirror.

beanh8er
04-08-2011, 06:12 PM
Wow, some of you guys could get together and declare the world to be flat again.

Some of these posts should be entered in the Guiness Book Of World Records for the deepest BS.

Mallett having a better body or work than the 4 yr starter with the NCAA records????????? That is utterly absurd. You can prognosticate and say for whatever reason you beleive Mallett will be a better NFL QB, but you cannot say he had a better collegiate body of work. It is a blatant lie.

Mallett a better leader than Kaepernick?? No NFL scout in the country would agree with that, and you know it.

So you don't like Kap to be the Dolphins QB. Fine, shout it from the rooftops; but all these posts of ridiculous crap just damage your respectibility.

Kaepernick has over 4000 thousand yards rushing, but Christian Ponder is a better athlete???????? Actually, the way some of these posts were twisting it all, I am surprised nobody tried to say Mallett was a better athlete.

Waaa. Waaa. Everyone thinks I'm wrong so I'll throw out meaningless stats that prove my point without giving background info. Now hopefully people will listen to me. I'll throw out stats to prove my point but also ignore the others that don't. I'll also refuse to see differences in talent levels between THE BEST conference in the NCAA and the wigitty-wigitty WAC. I'll ignore actual analysis o these two players and go with stats. Because stats never lie and always tell the whole truth. Then I'll use bad logic. I'll also compare a 4 year starter's career stats with a 2 year starter. If you compare Mallet's two years with Kaepernick's previous two years my guy gets blown out of the water in TDs, and yards but I won't tell anyone that. I'll also forget to compare the styles of offenses the two QBs ran and how this makes them more or less pro ready. This is an attack on your posts and not you.

Elliott 1
04-08-2011, 08:37 PM
Waaa. Waaa. Everyone thinks I'm wrong so I'll throw out meaningless stats that prove my point without giving background info. Now hopefully people will listen to me. I'll throw out stats to prove my point but also ignore the others that don't. I'll also refuse to see differences in talent levels between THE BEST conference in the NCAA and the wigitty-wigitty WAC. I'll ignore actual analysis o these two players and go with stats. Because stats never lie and always tell the whole truth. Then I'll use bad logic. I'll also compare a 4 year starter's career stats with a 2 year starter. If you compare Mallet's two years with Kaepernick's previous two years my guy gets blown out of the water in TDs, and yards but I won't tell anyone that. I'll also forget to compare the styles of offenses the two QBs ran and how this makes them more or less pro ready. This is an attack on your posts and not you.

Stats are meaningless?? Doubt you really believe that. Stats obviously have their place. Another example of the nonsensical crap being spewed out on this thread.

Do you really think I started this thread to garner support for my cause?? Not hardly, I knew exactly how most posters on this site would react, but when this stuff shakes out in the future there will be written proof of our thoughts and feelings.

I didn't discout the significance of the conference a QB plays in. I just didn't consider it a basic aspect of being an NFL QB. There is almost an endless depth to analysis if you want to go that far, and the farther you go with it the more you can skew the real picture, if that is your desire. I simply listed some of the "basic" aspects to being an NFL QB. If you want to consider things like yards and TD's then the QB rating thing would include that. It has been my experience that most people on this site don't adhere to QB rating. I actually respect QB rating and Mallett had a little better QB rating than Kap the last two yrs. So ya, I should have included QB rating and that would be an advantage Mallett.

So, Mallett is the better pure passer at this point. That is, however, in reality, the only major aspect of being an NFL QB where Mallett is better than Kaepernick, and the edge is slim. The rest of the aspects where Kaepernick is better remain strong points, and the dribble raised against the points was either a bold faced lie or a really weak arguement.

Your just going to have to deal with it. Kaepernick has distinct advantages over Mallett.

j-off-her-doll
04-08-2011, 09:17 PM
bad idea...honestly even playing him on specials returns is a bad idea...you could lose your franchise cb worst case franchise free safety top 5 pick cause you made him your kick returner...if pat peterson is gonna be lost for the year it should be as your every down player not cause some kamikazee specials coverage guy rolled up into his legs

this is no different for me than with dez last year...i'm not putting my top 5 bpa stud position player out there to get hurt returning kicks on specials...its too risky...

Say he goes to Arizona - not the best fit, but just say. He's a weapon that should limit the attention a Fitzgerald would receive. Even if you just send him on 5 go's a game or whatever, and nothing else, to me it'd be worth looking into. I wouldn't play him on ST's.

beanh8er
04-08-2011, 09:51 PM
Stats are meaningless?? Doubt you really believe that. Stats obviously have their place. Another example of the nonsensical crap being spewed out on this thread.

Do you really think I started this thread to garner support for my cause?? Not hardly, I knew exactly how most posters on this site would react, but when this stuff shakes out in the future there will be written proof of our thoughts and feelings.

I didn't discout the significance of the conference a QB plays in. I just didn't consider it a basic aspect of being an NFL QB. There is almost an endless depth to analysis if you want to go that far, and the farther you go with it the more you can skew the real picture, if that is your desire. I simply listed some of the "basic" aspects to being an NFL QB. If you want to consider things like yards and TD's then the QB rating thing would include that. It has been my experience that most people on this site don't adhere to QB rating. I actually respect QB rating and Mallett had a little better QB rating than Kap the last two yrs. So ya, I should have included QB rating and that would be an advantage Mallett.

So, Mallett is the better pure passer at this point. That is, however, in reality, the only major aspect of being an NFL QB where Mallett is better than Kaepernick, and the edge is slim. The rest of the aspects where Kaepernick is better remain strong points, and the dribble raised against the points was either a bold faced lie or a really weak arguement.

Your just going to have to deal with it. Kaepernick has distinct advantages over Mallett.

He does but none of those advantages help him play quarterback better. I never said stats are meaningless but you gave meaningless stats.

Elliott 1
04-08-2011, 10:44 PM
He does but none of those advantages help him play quarterback better. I never said stats are meaningless but you gave meaningless stats.

So stats are meaningful unless I post them?? But I bet you are not at all predjudice.

What stats did I even post? I referred to Kaepernick having a better completion %, but I didn't even post the numbers. I referred to Kaepernick's records, but I didn't post the numbers.

I didn't rub anybody's nose in numbers and stats, your getting pathetically desperate friend.

SF Dolphin Fan
04-09-2011, 12:24 AM
The three qb's I like best in this draft are Christian Ponder, Ricky Stanzi and Colin Kaepernick. I do recognize that Kaepernick could take awhile to develop, while I feel Ponder is the most NFL ready. I'm skeptical of Ryan Mallett because he is so slow. Watch him drop back in the pocket and compare with what Ponder does. I do love Mallett's deep arm, though, and that's where he has an edge over my three.

footsteps_falco
04-09-2011, 01:01 AM
Stats are meaningless?? Doubt you really believe that. Stats obviously have their place. Another example of the nonsensical crap being spewed out on this thread.

Do you really think I started this thread to garner support for my cause?? Not hardly, I knew exactly how most posters on this site would react, but when this stuff shakes out in the future there will be written proof of our thoughts and feelings.

I didn't discout the significance of the conference a QB plays in. I just didn't consider it a basic aspect of being an NFL QB. There is almost an endless depth to analysis if you want to go that far, and the farther you go with it the more you can skew the real picture, if that is your desire. I simply listed some of the "basic" aspects to being an NFL QB. If you want to consider things like yards and TD's then the QB rating thing would include that. It has been my experience that most people on this site don't adhere to QB rating. I actually respect QB rating and Mallett had a little better QB rating than Kap the last two yrs. So ya, I should have included QB rating and that would be an advantage Mallett.

So, Mallett is the better pure passer at this point. That is, however, in reality, the only major aspect of being an NFL QB where Mallett is better than Kaepernick, and the edge is slim. The rest of the aspects where Kaepernick is better remain strong points, and the dribble raised against the points was either a bold faced lie or a really weak arguement.

Your just going to have to deal with it. Kaepernick has distinct advantages over Mallett.

thats a BIG advantage

footsteps_falco
04-09-2011, 01:03 AM
i think that because you have gabbert, newton, locker, ponder, kaepernick, taylor... yea kaepernicks mobility is definitely going to be underrated because there's a lot of athletic QBs in this draft. in a different class his abilities might be more covetted but that's not the case

beanh8er
04-09-2011, 10:45 AM
So stats are meaningful unless I post them?? But I bet you are not at all predjudice.

What stats did I even post? I referred to Kaepernick having a better completion %, but I didn't even post the numbers. I referred to Kaepernick's records, but I didn't post the numbers.

I didn't rub anybody's nose in numbers and stats, your getting pathetically desperate friend.
Exactly completion % = meaningless stat unless it's ridiculously high or low. Given that senior year they were within .2% of each other it was pretty useless to throw out there. Also maybe Kaep's completion % is that .2% higher because his YPA is 1 yard lower (more shots downfield with Mallett). You even stated that Mallett is the better pure passer of the two. What is the most important part of being a QB?

Aqua and Orange
04-10-2011, 02:23 AM
The majority of those sport science clips are silly...but one that was REALLY neat was the Drew Brees accuracy one. If you guys get a chance, check it out:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVoqA-LKGb4

ckparrothead
04-10-2011, 10:52 AM
Wow, some of you guys could get together and declare the world to be flat again.

Some of these posts should be entered in the Guiness Book Of World Records for the deepest BS.

Mallett having a better body or work than the 4 yr starter with the NCAA records????????? That is utterly absurd. You can prognosticate and say for whatever reason you beleive Mallett will be a better NFL QB, but you cannot say he had a better collegiate body of work. It is a blatant lie.

Mallett a better leader than Kaepernick?? No NFL scout in the country would agree with that, and you know it.

So you don't like Kap to be the Dolphins QB. Fine, shout it from the rooftops; but all these posts of ridiculous crap just damage your respectibility.

Kaepernick has over 4000 thousand yards rushing, but Christian Ponder is a better athlete???????? Actually, the way some of these posts were twisting it all, I am surprised nobody tried to say Mallett was a better athlete.

What a bunch of nonsense, considering you started this thread with a bunch of naive claims.

ckparrothead
04-10-2011, 10:55 AM
The majority of those sport science clips are silly...but one that was REALLY neat was the Drew Brees accuracy one. If you guys get a chance, check it out:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVoqA-LKGb4

Yeah that was definitely one of the Sports Science clips that I loved.

The Kaepernick one is good too, but misleading. Colin may have been able to speed up his delivery to 375 ms in a laboratory setting, but on the football field where muscle memory takes over his release was by far the slowest of all the QBs I measured on similar intermediate-sized throws with pocket rhythm.

Kdawg954
04-10-2011, 01:20 PM
I mean anything is possible, but it is just like anybody else with a quirky prediction . . . Kaepernick could end up being a starting QB and Mallet could be out of the league in 3 years . . . who knows . . . seriously. But to predict it based on nonsense is why this thread is laughable. Mallet clearly is the better QB on film and on paper, he faced ELITE competition . . . I mean the guy has went up against Bama twice, LSU twice, Ohio State, Auburn twice, Georgia twice, South Carolina twice, Florida, Texas A&M twice . . . and the #'s are better . . . I mean why not Greg Mceleroy? Why not Andy Dalton? Neither one stacks up to Ryan Mallet, and neither does Colin Kaepernick. If you had a choice between the 2 at 15 and you went Kaepernick, then what can I tell you :lol: . If you mean Kaepernick in a trade down, you still obviously don't value him enough, because if you think he is that great you would take him #1 overall, let alone at 15.

The funny thing is, I wouldn't discount this regime going with a Kaepernick/Tyrod Taylor combo in this draft . . . wouldn't be suprising at all.

ckparrothead
04-10-2011, 04:16 PM
I'm not going to criticize just for wanting Kaepernick over Mallett. That's an opinion and it's as good as any.

But to break them down and then take it as a given that Kaepernick has the better "body of work" because he has rushing records, even though Mallett led one of the most prolific passing attacks in the history of the SEC this year...that's highly questionable. But then handing "accuracy" to Kaepernick makes the whole thing just look disingenuous. Not to mention rigged, since the original poster took character stuff and split it into three categories.

Elliott 1
04-11-2011, 11:03 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=6470&line=202801&spln=1

There is plenty of Kaepernick before Mallett sentiment out there.

Skree
04-12-2011, 02:58 PM
I'm not going to criticize just for wanting Kaepernick over Mallett. That's an opinion and it's as good as any.

But to break them down and then take it as a given that Kaepernick has the better "body of work" because he has rushing records, even though Mallett led one of the most prolific passing attacks in the history of the SEC this year...that's highly questionable. But then handing "accuracy" to Kaepernick makes the whole thing just look disingenuous. Not to mention rigged, since the original poster took character stuff and split it into three categories.CK you are clearly behind on the news. Mallet's stock has dropped according to a new Phins writer.

He has Mallet as not worth mentioning.


Andrew Carter
Leaving Mallett out of the discussion wasn’t a mistake. I’m well aware there is a segment of Dolphins fans — and fans of other teams, too — interested in the guy. If you’re judging a QB prospect solely on arm strength then yeah, he’s impressive. When you factor in everything else that a successful NFL QB needs — decision-making ability, intelligence, vision, leadership quality, etc. — then it’s obvious why his stock has dropped. He impressed absolutely no one with his performance at the combine.

beanh8er
04-12-2011, 03:07 PM
CK you are clearly behind on the news. Mallet's stock has dropped according to a new Phins writer.

He has Mallet as not worth mentioning.

Quite honestly he isn't worth mentioning either then.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 03:44 PM
CK you are clearly behind on the news. Mallet's stock has dropped according to a new Phins writer.

He has Mallet as not worth mentioning.

Wow. That's. Special. Welcome to South Florida new guy. I can already tell I'm not going to like him.

Tunaphish429
04-12-2011, 03:49 PM
I would take Mallet of Kapernickdoodle.

Skree
04-12-2011, 03:50 PM
Quite honestly he isn't worth mentioning either then.Comic relief ?

Kdawg954
04-12-2011, 03:51 PM
It's funny, Mallet ripped up the combine . . . impressed alot of people. Throw in a 26 on the Wonderlic, I think many were impressed.

Draft time is full of more BS than any other time of the year. You have little unknowns trying to make a name for themselves by predicting something "not so obvious" and in the process if they completely miss, nobody gives a damn about them. Much more respect for our "in house" experts, who I know have put in the work watching film, over the vast majority of these clowns.

If Mallet is "not" worth discussing, it won't be because of anything on the field.

beanh8er
04-12-2011, 04:26 PM
Comic relief ?

Reporter not Mallett.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 05:01 PM
CK you are clearly behind on the news. Mallet's stock has dropped according to a new Phins writer.

He has Mallet as not worth mentioning.

Where did you see this by the way?

EDIT: Never mind I see it. I'll give the guy some more benefit of the doubt. It seemed like he was talking down to people and trying to pull the classic Armando/Omar "this is is the difference between FANS and people who actually know stuff" crap. But maybe not, maybe he just feels strongly about Mallett...and I don't mind that.

JBinSD
04-12-2011, 06:12 PM
Tiki Barber.

uga3406
04-12-2011, 08:52 PM
mallett

Skree
04-13-2011, 08:25 AM
Where did you see this by the way?

EDIT: Never mind I see it. I'll give the guy some more benefit of the doubt. It seemed like he was talking down to people and trying to pull the classic Armando/Omar "this is is the difference between FANS and people who actually know stuff" crap. But maybe not, maybe he just feels strongly about Mallett...and I don't mind that.I don't mind it either. As long as you back it up with something if you are going to put it out there like that.

At least he didn't bring up mystery character issues.

Skree
04-13-2011, 08:26 AM
Reporter not Mallett.Exactly

Skree
04-13-2011, 09:14 AM
CK the case becomes clearer: by: Andrew Carter (http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/author/abcarter/)

Before we get going, some disclosure: I like Ponder, personally.

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2011/04/the-case-for-drafting-florida-state%E2%80%99s-christian-ponder.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sports%2FMiamiDolphinsweblog+%28Miami+Dolphins+|+Sun-Sentinel+Blogs%29

BARF
04-13-2011, 09:14 AM
i really don't want ponder, but he is the most nfl ready qb of all of them, colin k would be good but he has thrown out of the shotgun his whole college career, it could take some adjustment, i could see colin as the next freeman a serviceable qb and does not make mistakes i think the risk will be worth the reward, which i think colin will be there toward the end of the first round if we trade down, there will be a player there that a team would want to trade up and get, we need that 2nd rounder there is a lot of good players in the 2nd

Skree
04-13-2011, 10:32 AM
After reading that article I'm more skeptical than ever about Ponders injuries. Pass for me.

ckparrothead
04-13-2011, 11:18 AM
The FSU beat writer that came down to the Miami Dolphins likes Christian Ponder? Nooooo....really?!? LOL. Just kiddin. Seriously though no big surprise there. If a Fayetteville writer came to the Sun Sentinel then I can GUARANTEE he'd be talking up Mallett for the Dolphins. They all love Mallett just like FSU writers all love Ponder.

ckparrothead
04-13-2011, 11:38 AM
After reading that article I'm more skeptical than ever about Ponders injuries. Pass for me.

Honestly, our article for Dave was more forthcoming about the specific nature of the injuries, though he brings up great points. I'm a little surprised he did not go into the injuries a little more.

For instance that Clemson game in 2009 where Ponder threw 4 interceptions before separating his shoulder while tackling DeAndre McDaniels...he was playing that game with cracked ribs. I'm surprised Carter didn't mention that.

Also, from what we've heard from our sources, the upper arm injury he suffered against Oklahoma was just a bruise and not a particularly big deal, though painful. What was a big deal was the injury he suffered later against Boston College. Our sources say that the injury there was initially mis-diagnosed as bursitis, an inflammation of the bursa sac near the elbow. To treat bursitis you can either calm it down or you can undergo a bursectomy (removing the sac). If the latter, the bursa sac will grow back but won't be inflamed when it does. Ponder had a lot of inflammation and fluid build in the elbow so they did a bursectomy. The problem is, he didn't have bursitis. What he had was a little more rare, but not in any way serious, and that is torn fascial tissue near the elbow. The fascia is the thin layer of fibrous tissue that separates muscle from fat layers. The trauma to the fascial tissue was what kept causing fluid build in the elbow, along with pain, the inability to use it properly, etc. After the North Carolina game he had half a liter of fluid removed from his elbow. He should not have played in the Maryland or Florida games, but E.J. Manuel had suffered a hairline fracture in his wrist, so Ponder toughed it out. At some point he was correctly diagnosed with the torn fascial tissue, and treated properly, and that's when the elbow began healing.

The point to note is that the shoulder separation is the only serious injury among these injuries. That's the only one that can have far-reaching effects, depending on how much damage he did when he separated it. By the sound of it, his recovering far ahead of schedule suggests that his separation was not bad enough to carry a lot of collateral damage...so I doubt that's an issue going forward.

Andrew Carter brings up the right point though. The better part of these injuries were due to Ponder's rough and tumble style, but also due to an offense that saw him playing option football and carrying the ball a lot. Option football is dangerous for a QB. The point of the option is to read whether the defender is committing to you or committing to the pitch back. If he's committing to you, you draw him in as much as you can and then pitch the ball. But in the mean time, you get MURDERED, especially if you do a good job. The more you draw the defender in, the more effective the pitch will be in all likelihood. That sets up a helluva dangerous risk/reward scenario for the QB. And of course, even if the defender isn't committing to the QB, the QB keeps the ball, which guarantees he'll get hit later on the play. So, pick your poison. You're getting killed one way or another. At least if you're getting hit with the ball in your hands, you are able to protect yourself better.

Ponder won't be pitching option plays in the NFL. And he'll be forced to learn to slide. Not to mention, I been saying this a long time now, I see POCKET passers in college football taking FAR more abuse than I know the NFL allows their pocket passers to take. Far more.

So there's pretty good reason to believe the injury stuff will be a non-issue in the NFL. I think you have to evaluate Christian Ponder on the merits of his football skills.

Skree
04-13-2011, 12:05 PM
Honestly, our article for Dave was more forthcoming about the specific nature of the injuries, though he brings up great points. I'm a little surprised he did not go into the injuries a little more.

For instance that Clemson game in 2009 where Ponder threw 4 interceptions before separating his shoulder while tackling DeAndre McDaniels...he was playing that game with cracked ribs. I'm surprised Carter didn't mention that.

Also, from what we've heard from our sources, the upper arm injury he suffered against Oklahoma was just a bruise and not a particularly big deal, though painful. What was a big deal was the injury he suffered later against Boston College. Our sources say that the injury there was initially mis-diagnosed as bursitis, an inflammation of the bursa sac near the elbow. To treat bursitis you can either calm it down or you can undergo a bursectomy (removing the sac). If the latter, the bursa sac will grow back but won't be inflamed when it does. Ponder had a lot of inflammation and fluid build in the elbow so they did a bursectomy. The problem is, he didn't have bursitis. What he had was a little more rare, but not in any way serious, and that is torn fascial tissue near the elbow. The fascia is the thin layer of fibrous tissue that separates muscle from fat layers. The trauma to the fascial tissue was what kept causing fluid build in the elbow, along with pain, the inability to use it properly, etc. After the North Carolina game he had half a liter of fluid removed from his elbow. He should not have played in the Maryland or Florida games, but E.J. Manuel had suffered a hairline fracture in his wrist, so Ponder toughed it out. At some point he was correctly diagnosed with the torn fascial tissue, and treated properly, and that's when the elbow began healing.

The point to note is that the shoulder separation is the only serious injury among these injuries. That's the only one that can have far-reaching effects, depending on how much damage he did when he separated it. By the sound of it, his recovering far ahead of schedule suggests that his separation was not bad enough to carry a lot of collateral damage...so I doubt that's an issue going forward.

Andrew Carter brings up the right point though. The better part of these injuries were due to Ponder's rough and tumble style, but also due to an offense that saw him playing option football and carrying the ball a lot. Option football is dangerous for a QB. The point of the option is to read whether the defender is committing to you or committing to the pitch back. If he's committing to you, you draw him in as much as you can and then pitch the ball. But in the mean time, you get MURDERED, especially if you do a good job. The more you draw the defender in, the more effective the pitch will be in all likelihood. That sets up a helluva dangerous risk/reward scenario for the QB. And of course, even if the defender isn't committing to the QB, the QB keeps the ball, which guarantees he'll get hit later on the play. So, pick your poison. You're getting killed one way or another. At least if you're getting hit with the ball in your hands, you are able to protect yourself better.

Ponder won't be pitching option plays in the NFL. And he'll be forced to learn to slide. Not to mention, I been saying this a long time now, I see POCKET passers in college football taking FAR more abuse than I know the NFL allows their pocket passers to take. Far more.

So there's pretty good reason to believe the injury stuff will be a non-issue in the NFL. I think you have to evaluate Christian Ponder on the merits of his football skills.You wrote all that after I went and started a thread. Oh well.

I've always been real leery of injury problems with draft picks esp. 1st round considerations. That's why I was against picking Percy Harvin, look how that's worked out.

It just seems to me that many QB's play in similar situations and don't have these issues. Though it can hardly be held against his genetics when he is misdiagnosed and has an unnecessary elbow procedure (from what it sounds like).

If he becomes a Phin I hope he proves me dead wrong.

allsilverdreams
04-16-2011, 06:29 PM
i dont care what either one has done in college i want the best nfl ready QB on the board when er pick in the 1st even if we cant trade down.