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miamiz19d
04-11-2011, 10:27 AM
Its so simple. History repeats itself, for the first time since Marino. We will draft a first round QB.
Sparano and Ireland both got extensions because they sold the fact that henne sucks.
They need a first round QB, and they well get one. Just like Marino fell, so well Mallet.
But if you read about the kid, he is a competitor, and play maker. He is not afaird.
Even as a freshman he was pushing henne for the starters position.
And we all know this regimen loves competition.
He loves the deep ball, and has an unbelievable gun.
He is a brave heart true gunslinger in the mold of Marino.
There has to be a change, unless Henne goes all brees like in his 4th year.
but we need new blood. We need that fire, attitude that mallet brings to that position.
something that can't be taught.

Ryan Mallet... Now I dont know if they well trade down and roll the chips or select him outright.
but my gut feeling is, Mallet's our number one pick.

RockyMtnPhinfan
04-11-2011, 10:52 AM
Now this is what i like to hear.........I agree whole heartedly. Draft Mallet! He doesn't need to start day one, he only needs to get into the play book and try to learn from our coaches and players and be ready by year two to get his feet wet. Henne and Pennington will teach this kid good study habits as well.

ckparrothead
04-11-2011, 11:18 AM
It should be more simple than it is. Unfortunately, I'm not sure it is.

I really don't see them taking Mark Ingram, because of philosophical problems they may have with the idea of that. But that's a theory, that Jeff Ireland and Tony Sparano have carried on Parcells' discomfort with predicting NFL durability in a college kid. It's certainly nothing that is proven. It could be as simple as, with Parcells gone, Jeff Ireland branches out and operates according to what he believes not what Parcells believes...and takes Ingram. Could happen, but I still doubt it.

So then realistically you've got Ryan Mallett, Christian Ponder...and Mike Pouncey?

I know everyone's saying it. I guess I still have a tough time believing it. Is he a Guard or Center? Because right now if you read the tea leaves, they just re-signed Richie Incognito to at the very least compete with Joe Berger at Center. They can say what they want to the public but Incognito is at an independent training facility all off season working purely at Center and working on snapping the ball. So, the proof is in the pudding on that one. If you believe that Pouncey is the target, then I would have to stipulate that you think they're targeting him as a Guard. And if you're going to take a Guard at #15, you'd better be sure he's another Steve Hutchinson. I like Pouncey, believe it or not. I wasn't even a big fan of his brother but I like Mike Pouncey. He's more athletic. But I have trouble with taking a Guard at #15 overall when you can find them much later on.

Outside of those three...I think you have a trade down. I don't see taking a WR at #15. A.J. Green and Julio Jones will be gone, and though I like Leonard Hankerson the Dolphins may wonder if he's what they really need. Part of his value stems from the fact you can work him on the perimeter or in the slot and really get him involved, and he can do it all. But the Dolphins already have three guys that can work the slot, one of them a slot specialist. I have a tough time believing that after acquiring Brandon Marshall with two 2nd round picks, we're still going to use a #15 overall on another wide receiver because they believe the position is still that problematic. They're very happy with Brian Hartline and obviously very happy with Davone Bess. They gave Brandon Marshall like $30 million in guarantees or whatever, he's not going anywhere anytime soon. Spend a 1st rounder on Leonard Hankerson, aren't you just tossing money down a well?

Could they really take a pass rusher at #15? With Cam Wake and Koa Misi here, could they justify it? I don't know if I see Mike Nolan on board with that. I don't think he likes the idea of two straight up pass rushers, two Cam Wakes...putting pressure on what he can and can't call due to their lack of versatility.

So I mean, having eliminated running back, wide receiver, pass rusher, guard and center from the talk at #15 overall...I think it has to be Ryan Mallett, Christian Ponder, or a trade. Maybe I'm just talking myself into something, and there's still this "feel" that taking a quarterback at #15 doesn't seem characteristic of these guys' conservatism. But, trading for Brandon Marshall sure didn't "feel" like them either, and yet they chose to address the problem that was in front of all our noses in a BIG way last year anyway. I mean that was the big overarching theme of last off season, we need a #1 wide receiver, without one we can't hope to win big, etc. Similarly, the quarterback position is the big overarching theme of this off season.

TrinidadDolfan
04-11-2011, 11:35 AM
After watching Sparano condone inside running plays and dinky 5-yard passes (while we were down 14+ points in Q4 last season)......

I would not put it past him to use our #15 pick on a LT

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2011/04/cant_fix_stupid12939-1.jpg

BlueFin
04-11-2011, 12:02 PM
Its so simple. History repeats itself, for the first time since Marino. We will draft a first round QB.
Sparano and Ireland both got extensions because they sold the fact that henne sucks.
They need a first round QB, and they well get one. Just like Marino fell, so well Mallet.
But if you read about the kid, he is a competitor, and play maker. He is not afaird.
Even as a freshman he was pushing henne for the starters position.
And we all know this regimen loves competition.
He loves the deep ball, and has an unbelievable gun.
He is a brave heart true gunslinger in the mold of Marino.
There has to be a change, unless Henne goes all brees like in his 4th year.
but we need new blood. We need that fire, attitude that mallet brings to that position.
something that can't be taught.

Ryan Mallet... Now I dont know if they well trade down and roll the chips or select him outright.
but my gut feeling is, Mallet's our number one pick.

I have to agree, you saved me starting a thread, this is the feeling I'm finally getting after much uncertainty.

It seems to me that there is no ultra special runningback worthy of pick 15. I also think you don't take a guard (Pouncey)that high unless he is really special. So in my mind that leaves taking Mallett if he is there, or drafting a Defensive player, which on the surface doe not seem likely due to what is projected to be available being in our area of strength, or trading down of course.

The quandry as I see it for Ireland will be making a decision to grab Mallett when he knows he can get him, or rolling the bones on a trade down and hoping he's still there, maybe settling for Kaepernick if he is gone and gaining the extra pick.

I feel Mallett is our guy and who they really want after the top two. The other small possibility is One of the top two slip to pick 9, in which case Dallas would be a willing trade up partner.

My prediction is Mallett in round one though.

Aqua and Orange
04-11-2011, 12:07 PM
It should be more simple than it is. Unfortunately, I'm not sure it is.

I really don't see them taking Mark Ingram, because of philosophical problems they may have with the idea of that. But that's a theory, that Jeff Ireland and Tony Sparano have carried on Parcells' discomfort with predicting NFL durability in a college kid. It's certainly nothing that is proven. It could be as simple as, with Parcells gone, Jeff Ireland branches out and operates according to what he believes not what Parcells believes...and takes Ingram. Could happen, but I still doubt it.

So then realistically you've got Ryan Mallett, Christian Ponder...and Mike Pouncey?

I know everyone's saying it. I guess I still have a tough time believing it. Is he a Guard or Center? Because right now if you read the tea leaves, they just re-signed Richie Incognito to at the very least compete with Joe Berger at Center. They can say what they want to the public but Incognito is at an independent training facility all off season working purely at Center and working on snapping the ball. So, the proof is in the pudding on that one. If you believe that Pouncey is the target, then I would have to stipulate that you think they're targeting him as a Guard. And if you're going to take a Guard at #15, you'd better be sure he's another Steve Hutchinson. I like Pouncey, believe it or not. I wasn't even a big fan of his brother but I like Mike Pouncey. He's more athletic. But I have trouble with taking a Guard at #15 overall when you can find them much later on.

Outside of those three...I think you have a trade down. I don't see taking a WR at #15. A.J. Green and Julio Jones will be gone, and though I like Leonard Hankerson the Dolphins may wonder if he's what they really need. Part of his value stems from the fact you can work him on the perimeter or in the slot and really get him involved, and he can do it all. But the Dolphins already have three guys that can work the slot, one of them a slot specialist. I have a tough time believing that after acquiring Brandon Marshall with two 2nd round picks, we're still going to use a #15 overall on another wide receiver because they believe the position is still that problematic. They're very happy with Brian Hartline and obviously very happy with Davone Bess. They gave Brandon Marshall like $30 million in guarantees or whatever, he's not going anywhere anytime soon. Spend a 1st rounder on Leonard Hankerson, aren't you just tossing money down a well?

Could they really take a pass rusher at #15? With Cam Wake and Koa Misi here, could they justify it? I don't know if I see Mike Nolan on board with that. I don't think he likes the idea of two straight up pass rushers, two Cam Wakes...putting pressure on what he can and can't call due to their lack of versatility.

So I mean, having eliminated running back, wide receiver, pass rusher, guard and center from the talk at #15 overall...I think it has to be Ryan Mallett, Christian Ponder, or a trade. Maybe I'm just talking myself into something, and there's still this "feel" that taking a quarterback at #15 doesn't seem characteristic of these guys' conservatism. But, trading for Brandon Marshall sure didn't "feel" like them either, and yet they chose to address the problem that was in front of all our noses in a BIG way last year anyway. I mean that was the big overarching theme of last off season, we need a #1 wide receiver, without one we can't hope to win big, etc. Similarly, the quarterback position is the big overarching theme of this off season.

Ryan Mallett at 15 would be amazing, assuming he falls past the Vikings (who Rotoworld said appear to really like Jake Locker).

That said, the name I keep seeing the Dolphins taking is Mike Pouncey. His versatility to play both guard and center gives him a giant shot of winning one of those two positions, which you really need with a first rounder. Couple in the fact that Sparano is getting more of a say in this draft and an added emphasis to the line is a given.

I personally would love them to get a QB. The one wild card that everyone keeps bringing up, including the thread starter, is what Ireland and Sparano said to Ross to get rehired. There is a big insinuation on everyone's lips publicly that stiff competition will be brought in for Henne, and with a lockout making free agency an unknown the draft would be where this competition would be pulled from.

Another wild card is the urge to trade down. While the teams following the Dolphins don't appear to have QB needs (except Seattle), there are a lot of QB hungry teams at the top of the 2nd that could trade up into the back of the second round. My biggest fear is the Dolphins targeting a QB, getting "cute" and trading down, and then another team trading up before them and selecting the QB.

sinPHIN
04-11-2011, 01:17 PM
i hope to god you are right

Kdawg954
04-11-2011, 03:32 PM
If they don't go QB or Ingram . . . they really need to trade down and maybe pick up Carimi and a 2nd rounder. Fits the Big 10 theme, he is going to be a great RT in the NFL . . . but he might win the LG spot on this team as well, dude is going to start on this line somewhere. In the 2nd, you leave yourself options to go anywhere that fills a need. Maybe a QB they thought about in round 1 slips . . . maybe the RB they love is there in round 2 . . . maybe the outside speedster is there . . . just leaves them options.

Are we really discounting them taking JJ Watt or Cam Jordan at 15? I mean on paper obviously that is a hell no . . . but for some reason I feel they are in the mix if they fall to 15. They have Langford and Merling as FA's after the year, McDaniel more than likely won't be back. They have Starks for 2 more years, Soliai on a 1 year deal and Odrick from last season. I dunno, wouldn't suprise me at all to be honest with you.

hooshoops
04-11-2011, 03:49 PM
they go 3-4 de at #15 and i'm done...

Aqua and Orange
04-11-2011, 03:59 PM
Are we really discounting them taking JJ Watt or Cam Jordan at 15? I mean on paper obviously that is a hell no . . . but for some reason I feel they are in the mix if they fall to 15. They have Langford and Merling as FA's after the year, McDaniel more than likely won't be back. They have Starks for 2 more years, Soliai on a 1 year deal and Odrick from last season. I dunno, wouldn't suprise me at all to be honest with you.

I, on the other hand, would be surprised as hell if they went in this direction with no 2nd rounder and the amount of holes they have on offense. I think the only way they go defense with their first pick is with a trade down, and even that is something I wouldn't put a cent on.

Kdawg954
04-11-2011, 04:07 PM
I, on the other hand, would be surprised as hell if they went in this direction with no 2nd rounder and the amount of holes they have on offense. I think the only way they go defense with their first pick is with a trade down, and even that is something I wouldn't put a cent on.

I really think its unlikely, but definitely not to be discounted. At 15, they are essentially in a tough spot in "this" draft. But lets say they can't trade down, and they have concerns with Ingram (injury) and Mallet (off the field), and aren't really as high on Ponder as they are letting on . . . atleast not #15 high. I dunno, I believe they met with JJ Watt and I know he fits what they want to do . . . it just wouldn't shock me. Maybe they resign Brown and go OL, RB, TE in rounds 3, 4 and 5? Sign a speedy WR in Free Agency for cheap or maybe they want to put their eggs in a 2012 QB and go the FA route . . . I dunno . . . I just think in this type of draft JJ could be the best player at 15 and considering he is a BIG 10 lineman . . . who this regime LOVES . . . it just wouldn't shock me like it would many others.

That being said, they have to know the feedback they would get with that kind of pick at 15. It would be a feeding frenzy all over . . . from newspapers, to beat writers to the fans.

Aqua and Orange
04-11-2011, 04:23 PM
That being said, they have to know the feedback they would get with that kind of pick at 15. It would be a feeding frenzy all over . . . from newspapers, to beat writers to the fans.

Definitely agree with that last sentence.

The one thing I would say about this administration that has been good and somewhat predictable is using that first pick on an area of dire need. Long was a pick when we had zilch for an O-line. Davis was a pick when we had zilch at the corner position. Odrick was a pick when we had (or so we thought), zilch at the NT position and needed to kick Starks there and find a DE replacement. That would signal the drafting of a RB or Guard, as those positions could very well be wide open for someone to start and learn within from day 1.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I REALLY hope that the wild card is Ross needing ONE SINGLE reason for fans to buy tickets this year, thus prompting the drafting of a QB of the future. Normally I would say this is a silly idea, but when a GM and coach are trying everything to keep their jobs, anything can be agreed upon. Ross really had more power this offseason than ever and this draft could very well reflect that.

Ricky4Life
04-11-2011, 04:37 PM
I want mallett.

ckparrothead
04-11-2011, 04:40 PM
They appeased the owner and the masses by bringing in Brandon Marshall last year. I would think they'd want to appease them by bringing in a QB this year.

We're in sort of a unique situation though where Dol-Fans are sort of settling in on Ryan Mallett as that guy at #15. If you look at Ben Volin's latest blog which is about Ryan Mallett, he posts a poll question. Over 80% of the people have one way or another said "YES" to Mallett. Half think just take him at #15, and half want a trade down. The half that want a trade down...let's just say...if we took him at #15 they wouldn't be booing like the crowd at Cam Cameron.

So more and more I think this Miami fanbase are going to settle in with Mallett at #15, just like they did with Brady Quinn at #9. That makes me wonder what's going to happen. If they take Mallett, then it will be a GOOD thing...because the fanbase will have already been on board and they'll give him breaks. I felt bad for Daunte Culpepper when he came on because I swear before he even started a game, half the fanbase already hated him. He was literally booed in the first half of his first home game. I'll never forget that.

But if we've got 80+ percent approval ratings for Ryan Mallett, we have a chance of having him get on well with the fans and media for a while. That would be ideal. He might not look awesome right away. He didn't at Michigan. And in my horrific worrywart dreams I could sort of see Sparano not liking him to where everyone's always wondering why Sparano isn't putting him in and it being some ridiculous sh-t like Mallett not always getting rid of the ball by the 3 second buzzer in practice.

Kdawg954
04-11-2011, 05:06 PM
Definitely agree with that last sentence.

The one thing I would say about this administration that has been good and somewhat predictable is using that first pick on an area of dire need. Long was a pick when we had zilch for an O-line. Davis was a pick when we had zilch at the corner position. Odrick was a pick when we had (or so we thought), zilch at the NT position and needed to kick Starks there and find a DE replacement. That would signal the drafting of a RB or Guard, as those positions could very well be wide open for someone to start and learn within from day 1.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I REALLY hope that the wild card is Ross needing ONE SINGLE reason for fans to buy tickets this year, thus prompting the drafting of a QB of the future. Normally I would say this is a silly idea, but when a GM and coach are trying everything to keep their jobs, anything can be agreed upon. Ross really had more power this offseason than ever and this draft could very well reflect that.

I agree fully with the idea that a "primary" focus will be getting an "offensive" playmaker with that first round pick to put more excitement into the fanbase. That was the focus in 2007 as well, and they chose the wrong guy . . . when they had 2 defensive studs in Willis and Revis staring them in the face. Now 3 years later, everybody "claims" they wanted those 2 over an offensive playmaker at 9.

**** is scary man . . . I know it is a scary proposition taking a QB, whether at 1 or at 15 . . . and we need to be brave and make that happen . . . but be confident in the pick and don't take a guy just for taking one . . . while letting an elite talent on offense or defense fly by. We HAVE to hit on this first round pick.

hooshoops
04-11-2011, 05:18 PM
They appeased the owner and the masses by bringing in Brandon Marshall last year. I would think they'd want to appease them by bringing in a QB this year.

We're in sort of a unique situation though where Dol-Fans are sort of settling in on Ryan Mallett as that guy at #15. If you look at Ben Volin's latest blog which is about Ryan Mallett, he posts a poll question. Over 80% of the people have one way or another said "YES" to Mallett. Half think just take him at #15, and half want a trade down. The half that want a trade down...let's just say...if we took him at #15 they wouldn't be booing like the crowd at Cam Cameron.

So more and more I think this Miami fanbase are going to settle in with Mallett at #15, just like they did with Brady Quinn at #9. That makes me wonder what's going to happen. If they take Mallett, then it will be a GOOD thing...because the fanbase will have already been on board and they'll give him breaks. I felt bad for Daunte Culpepper when he came on because I swear before he even started a game, half the fanbase already hated him. He was literally booed in the first half of his first home game. I'll never forget that.

But if we've got 80+ percent approval ratings for Ryan Mallett, we have a chance of having him get on well with the fans and media for a while. That would be ideal. He might not look awesome right away. He didn't at Michigan. And in my horrific worrywart dreams I could sort of see Sparano not liking him to where everyone's always wondering why Sparano isn't putting him in and it being some ridiculous sh-t like Mallett not always getting rid of the ball by the 3 second buzzer in practice.

so could i...god i wish we had fired that clown

hooshoops
04-11-2011, 05:26 PM
I really think its unlikely, but definitely not to be discounted. At 15, they are essentially in a tough spot in "this" draft. But lets say they can't trade down, and they have concerns with Ingram (injury) and Mallet (off the field), and aren't really as high on Ponder as they are letting on . . . atleast not #15 high. I dunno, I believe they met with JJ Watt and I know he fits what they want to do . . . it just wouldn't shock me. Maybe they resign Brown and go OL, RB, TE in rounds 3, 4 and 5? Sign a speedy WR in Free Agency for cheap or maybe they want to put their eggs in a 2012 QB and go the FA route . . . I dunno . . . I just think in this type of draft JJ could be the best player at 15 and considering he is a BIG 10 lineman . . . who this regime LOVES . . . it just wouldn't shock me like it would many others.

That being said, they have to know the feedback they would get with that kind of pick at 15. It would be a feeding frenzy all over . . . from newspapers, to beat writers to the fans.

there's no question in my mind ponder at #15 is too high...but if its between him and a 3-4 de with the pick my god please go with the qb...and i love cameron jordan as everyone knows...he's absolutely worth the pick but we just got enough 3-4 ends if odrick can come back to where we need to use that top pick elsewhere

honestly though if its christian ponder these guys covet they should trade back...into the mid 20's i'd take the chance on him being there...mallet i would not...seattle is waiting for him to fall in their laps

i'm all about some either mallet ingram or pouncey cause i think he's gonna make a heck of a left guard...and with pouncey i would try and trade back to 20 and still get him...the only guys at #15 i'm on board with taking outright would be mallet and ingram and since i like the rb class a lot better than i do the qb class i have come around to mallet the preferred choice...why not take a chance on greatness at qb

hooshoops
04-11-2011, 05:31 PM
i did hear something i wasn't aware of today...one of the guys on espn quoted that in the nfl in 2010 something like 55 percent of passes thrown were thrown under some form of pressure...to me pressure and inability to reset his feet is ryan malletts krytponite so that's something that has to be a cause for some concern...

finsfanjay13
04-11-2011, 05:44 PM
After the BCS game, I wasn't too big on Mallett. He's prone to make a dumb play when the pressure is on. However, if we're staying at #15, I think he's our best option. Unless we trade down, I can't see another player worth grabbing at #15 unless a top-10 guy somehow falls.

TedSlimmJr
04-11-2011, 06:03 PM
Eh, hard to be too tough on a kid based on ONE game. Especially a game in which he played damn near terrific.

Hell, the two performances in Rose Bowls I watched Vince Young put on was better than anything I've seen since Charlie Ward. It didn't bode very well for Vince Young's ever materializing into a "franchise" quarterback..

finsfanjay13
04-11-2011, 06:18 PM
Eh, hard to be too tough on a kid based on ONE game. Especially a game in which he played damn near terrific.

Hell, the two performances in Rose Bowls I watched Vince Young put on was better than anything I've seen since Charlie Ward. It didn't bode very well for Vince Young's ever materializing into a "franchise" quarterback..

Not just one game. I believe he also threw an ill-advised INT against Alabama. Both of those were high pressure games where he made a bad decision. I'm not saying to pass on him, but I am saying that in two high-pressured situations, he made bad decisions. No deep hidden meaning there. Just making an observation.

normaniii
04-11-2011, 06:24 PM
If they don't go QB or Ingram . . . they really need to trade down and maybe pick up Carimi and a 2nd rounder. Fits the Big 10 theme, he is going to be a great RT in the NFL . . . but he might win the LG spot on this team as well, dude is going to start on this line somewhere. In the 2nd, you leave yourself options to go anywhere that fills a need. Maybe a QB they thought about in round 1 slips . . . maybe the RB they love is there in round 2 . . . maybe the outside speedster is there . . . just leaves them options.

Are we really discounting them taking JJ Watt or Cam Jordan at 15? I mean on paper obviously that is a hell no . . . but for some reason I feel they are in the mix if they fall to 15. They have Langford and Merling as FA's after the year, McDaniel more than likely won't be back. They have Starks for 2 more years, Soliai on a 1 year deal and Odrick from last season. I dunno, wouldn't suprise me at all to be honest with you.

If we can trade down and snag Carimi I will be happy camper. Move Carey to G where I think he will finish career and stop ****ing about with interior O'line.

TedSlimmJr
04-11-2011, 06:51 PM
Not just one game. I believe he also threw an ill-advised INT against Alabama. Both of those were high pressure games where he made a bad decision. I'm not saying to pass on him, but I am saying that in two high-pressured situations, he made bad decisions. No deep hidden meaning there. Just making an observation.


Well, there's not a quarterback that's faced Alabama's defense the past 2 years or so that hasn't thrown an ill advised interception.

Guy's like Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Cam Newton, etc. have all been throwing the same ill advised interceptions with the game on the line, except they were doing it against defenses that don't equal Bama's...

finsfanjay13
04-11-2011, 07:03 PM
Well, there's not a quarterback that's faced Alabama's defense the past 2 years or so that hasn't thrown an ill advised interception.

Guy's like Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Cam Newton, etc. have all been throwing the same ill advised interceptions with the game on the line, except they were doing it against defenses that don't equal Bama's...

Again, just making an observation. No need to argue semantics.

lil tom digby
04-11-2011, 07:12 PM
I'm just having a hard time believing Mallet falls to 15. I'm no draft guru, but when I watch the youtube videos of the all the QB's, Mallet looks like a Pro QB. I have a gut feeling that the QB that falls in this draft is gonna be Gabbert. Just a feelin'.

rickd13
04-11-2011, 07:21 PM
After watching Sparano condone inside running plays and dinky 5-yard passes (while we were down 14+ points in Q4 last season)......

I would not put it past him to use our #15 pick on a LT

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2011/04/cant_fix_stupid12939-1.jpg

Do we really need your political commentary about American presidents when your user name is TrinidadDolfan and you have the Trinidad flag as your avatar?

TedSlimmJr
04-11-2011, 07:44 PM
Again, just making an observation. No need to argue semantics.


Right. I suppose my point is that Ryan Mallett seems to get hammered for throwing an interception against the 2 best defenses in the country, when the other quarterbacks get a free pass for throwing even worse interceptions, at even worse times, against much worse defenses. Nobody will even talk about it.

Again, Mallett has had only three games in the past 2 years where he's had multiple interceptions... Blaine Gabbert has had SEVEN 2+ interception games over that same span...while facing defenses nowhere near the caliber of SEC defenses.

If Mallett's receivers simply catch the football against Ohio St., Mallett has 4 TD passes and 0 INT's, and is probably standing on the sideline in the 4th quarter watching his backup Tyler Wilson run out the clock.

I'd be afraid to see the type of performance a quarterback like Blaine Gabbert would have against Bama's defense... or Ohio St.

The difference is Mallett's production and ability to move the ball down the field and score points more than makes up for the occassional interception. That's not necessarily the case with quite a few of the other quarterbacks in this draft.

Dolphin39
04-11-2011, 07:53 PM
I'd be very happy if we drafted Ryan Mallet.

I know he is a shot in the dark, but you have to at some point take a risk to try and find this team a good QB.

AZStryker
04-11-2011, 08:14 PM
Drafting Mallet would be the smartest thing for Sporano/Ireland. It's the only way they realistically get to see another year of employment from the Dolphins. If they don't then the fans will deliver an ultimatum to Ross by canceling season tickets and not purchasing merchandise.

finsfanjay13
04-11-2011, 08:39 PM
Right. I suppose my point is that Ryan Mallett seems to get hammered for throwing an interception against the 2 best defenses in the country, when the other quarterbacks get a free pass for throwing even worse interceptions, at even worse times, against much worse defenses. Nobody will even talk about it.

Again, Mallett has had only three games in the past 2 years where he's had multiple interceptions... Blaine Gabbert has had SEVEN 2+ interception games over that same span...while facing defenses nowhere near the caliber of SEC defenses.

If Mallett's receivers simply catch the football against Ohio St., Mallett has 4 TD passes and 0 INT's, and is probably standing on the sideline in the 4th quarter watching his backup Tyler Wilson run out the clock.

I'd be afraid to see the type of performance a quarterback like Blaine Gabbert would have against Bama's defense... or Ohio St.

The difference is Mallett's production and ability to move the ball down the field and score points more than makes up for the occassional interception. That's not necessarily the case with quite a few of the other quarterbacks in this draft.

To be clear, I wasn't hammering on Mallett. I was just pointing out the way that game ended left a Henne-esque feeling in me. I've watched a lot of Mallett and have been just as impressed with him as most. His character issues do concern me, but at #15, I'd take a chance. Furthermore, I hope we at least give him a line if we draft him, because he has no mobility. :)

Kdawg954
04-12-2011, 07:34 AM
To be clear, I wasn't hammering on Mallett. I was just pointing out the way that game ended left a Henne-esque feeling in me. I've watched a lot of Mallett and have been just as impressed with him as most. His character issues do concern me, but at #15, I'd take a chance. Furthermore, I hope we at least give him a line if we draft him, because he has no mobility. :)

Limited mobility, but he does have pocket presence . . . we watched a QB sling the rock for 17 years with "limited" mobility but elite pocket presence, and he did pretty well.

The thing that bothers me the most with Mallet is how can a QB who is clearly the best QB on film be rated by so many people as a 2nd round prospect. What the hell is going on off the field with this kid . . . honestly? I mean we can nitpick at the occassional bonehead INT or the limited mobility . . . but his arm, the throws he has made, and the competition he has face more than make up for that. I dunno . . . something isn't right and I hope this front office has relied on their "own" homework rather than the stuff that others have been spewing out.

I'd take him at 15 . . . I just don't think he makes it there. Miami is going to have to be "proactive" if they want to secure their QB. I mean whats stopping Gabbert and Newton going top 5 . . . Locker going top 10 to San Fran, Tennessee or Washington, Mallet to the Vikings and Jville trading up with the Lions or Rams and going Ponder? Unlikely? hell yea it is . . . but it could happen . . . teams need QB's this year.

TrinidadDolfan
04-12-2011, 08:23 AM
Do we really need your political commentary about American presidents when your user name is TrinidadDolfan and you have the Trinidad flag as your avatar?

Rickd13, shame on you.

I am really disappointed that you had to get personal with this. Are you always this sensitive about each wisecrack made about Bush? If I had a funny avatar with "Oprah" in it, would you accuse me of hating women? If I posted a picture of a cheerleader would you accuse me of being "sexist"? Wow..

As for "Dolphin39" and "lil tom gigby" who posted a "thanks" to Rickd13's comments, shame on you too. You both should have known better.

Since when is Finheaven a place where we start pointing fingers at each other based on what we "perceive" as nationality, race, gender, where we live, where we don't live etc...

I am glad to know that the majority of Finheaven does not support your "finger-pointing", "over-sensitive" rudeness.

So....... keep the political/racial thoughts inside your head, do not get personal again, and lets get back to talking Fins football o.k?


p.s For the record, I voted for Bush junior AND senior.

So quit crying about "political commentary" (which is wasn't) and, for heaven's sake....

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

j-off-her-doll
04-12-2011, 08:48 AM
Right. I suppose my point is that Ryan Mallett seems to get hammered for throwing an interception against the 2 best defenses in the country, when the other quarterbacks get a free pass for throwing even worse interceptions, at even worse times, against much worse defenses. Nobody will even talk about it.

Again, Mallett has had only three games in the past 2 years where he's had multiple interceptions... Blaine Gabbert has had SEVEN 2+ interception games over that same span...while facing defenses nowhere near the caliber of SEC defenses.

If Mallett's receivers simply catch the football against Ohio St., Mallett has 4 TD passes and 0 INT's, and is probably standing on the sideline in the 4th quarter watching his backup Tyler Wilson run out the clock.

I'd be afraid to see the type of performance a quarterback like Blaine Gabbert would have against Bama's defense... or Ohio St.

The difference is Mallett's production and ability to move the ball down the field and score points more than makes up for the occassional interception. That's not necessarily the case with quite a few of the other quarterbacks in this draft.

Generally speaking, Mallett's been getting a ton a unfair criticism. In my eyes, the only thing keeping him from being worthy of #1 consideration is his lack of mobility. And, I'm not talking about M. Vick mobility. I'm talking about T. Brady mobility. He's passable in the pocket, but if he tightened up and maximized his athleticism (doubt he'd ever be C. Newton in that regard), I think he'd have to be one of the favorites to go #1 overall. As it stands, I'd be happy with him at #15.

miamiz19d
04-12-2011, 08:56 AM
if this was last year and he came out, we would all witness him go top 5 easy.

Bumpus
04-12-2011, 09:08 AM
Do we really need your political commentary about American presidents when your user name is TrinidadDolfan and you have the Trinidad flag as your avatar?

Ease up there, bro.

My take on this is that he's making a joke questioning the intelligence of our head coach using a comparison to a public figure that isn't known for his intelligence.

This is not political commentary.

TrinidadDolfan
04-12-2011, 11:11 AM
Ease up there, bro.

My take on this is that he's making a joke questioning the intelligence of our head coach using a comparison to a public figure that isn't known for his intelligence.

This is not political commentary.

Thanks Bumpus,

Half of me was hoping that rickd13 thought "ooops!" after writing what he did. And then all would be fine in the world again.
But....... he has not edited his comment, so, I guess not

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 11:19 AM
i did hear something i wasn't aware of today...one of the guys on espn quoted that in the nfl in 2010 something like 55 percent of passes thrown were thrown under some form of pressure...to me pressure and inability to reset his feet is ryan malletts krytponite so that's something that has to be a cause for some concern...

That seems to me like a bogus stat. Sometimes people use that word to describe blitzes. You hear coaches use them interchangeably. To me pressure means you successfully affected the quarterback and got him to rush the throw as he's about to be hit, or change his stance, move out of the way, etc. Just blitzing a guy isn't pressure. But coaches talk about defenses that "pressure" and when they do that what they mean is defenses that blitz, bring extra men to the quarterback. That's how Nick Saban used to use the word.

But anyway, if this person was tallying up all the times that QBs were BLITZED and/or pressured...then 55 percent is believable. If they're talking about just the number of times a QB was actually put under pressure, it's more like 25-30 percent on the low end (Matt Hasselbeck, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Matt Schaub, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Carson Palmer, Mark Sanchez) and then on the high end 35-40 percent (Ben Roethlisberger, Michael Vick, David Garrard, Matt Cassel, Phil Rivers, Josh Freeman, Jay Cutler, Donovan McNabb). Since these numbers first started to come out from PFF and I've been tracking them, it's always seemed to me that this is very QB-driven. Some QBs get the ball out and they'll only be pressured about 25-30 percent. Others seem to like hanging onto the ball, pushing it up the field, and/or dealing with the increased pressure creatively.

If we're talking about BLITZING as interchangeable with "pressure" then I disagree with the notion that this is a problem for Ryan Mallett. He's a proven blitz beater, more so than probably any other QB in this Draft.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 11:33 AM
Right. I suppose my point is that Ryan Mallett seems to get hammered for throwing an interception against the 2 best defenses in the country, when the other quarterbacks get a free pass for throwing even worse interceptions, at even worse times, against much worse defenses. Nobody will even talk about it.

Again, Mallett has had only three games in the past 2 years where he's had multiple interceptions... Blaine Gabbert has had SEVEN 2+ interception games over that same span...while facing defenses nowhere near the caliber of SEC defenses.

If Mallett's receivers simply catch the football against Ohio St., Mallett has 4 TD passes and 0 INT's, and is probably standing on the sideline in the 4th quarter watching his backup Tyler Wilson run out the clock.

I'd be afraid to see the type of performance a quarterback like Blaine Gabbert would have against Bama's defense... or Ohio St.

The difference is Mallett's production and ability to move the ball down the field and score points more than makes up for the occassional interception. That's not necessarily the case with quite a few of the other quarterbacks in this draft.

I agree that Alabama and Ohio State were two of the best defenses in the country. Although I personally believe you can see a lot from how a guy faces Nebraska, Boston College, and Oklahoma as well. And Iowa. Not ready to toss those out and pretend they don't compare with Alabama and Ohio State. They do. But there's no doubt that some guys particularly Gabbert seem to be given a free pass versus Mallett...probably because of the character thing.

Too much is made of Mallett's performance against Bama. Three bad interceptions, no doubt about it. But otherwise he had two or three times more good plays than bad, and that was being very nitpicky with the bad plays. He needs to learn when to give up on a bad play. That's one of his most consistent problems, when he does screw up.

And I felt Mallett's Ohio State performance was about equal to Gabbert's Iowa performance, both good overall against good pass defenses. Both threw the critical interception at a bad time. Both were generally throwing the ball all over the field and throwing well for most of the game. Mallett's got a better history against better defenses. Also a better cast though.

TrinidadDolfan
04-12-2011, 11:40 AM
I agree that Alabama and Ohio State were two of the best defenses in the country. Although I personally believe you can see a lot from how a guy faces Nebraska, Boston College, and Oklahoma as well. And Iowa. Not ready to toss those out and pretend they don't compare with Alabama and Ohio State. They do. But there's no doubt that some guys particularly Gabbert seem to be given a free pass versus Mallett...probably because of the character thing.

Too much is made of Mallett's performance against Bama. Three bad interceptions, no doubt about it. But otherwise he had two or three times more good plays than bad, and that was being very nitpicky with the bad plays. He needs to learn when to give up on a bad play. That's one of his most consistent problems, when he does screw up.

And I felt Mallett's Ohio State performance was about equal to Gabbert's Iowa performance, both good overall against good pass defenses. Both threw the critical interception at a bad time. Both were generally throwing the ball all over the field and throwing well for most of the game. Mallett's got a better history against better defenses. Also a better cast though.

I get the feeling that if there were no "rumours" r/e Mallett's off-the-field issues, then we would not even have the chance to "sniff" him at #15.

Every day when I see an article that questions his leadership or character, I get that warm fuzzy feeling inside

hooshoops
04-12-2011, 11:44 AM
i think we are going arkansas back to back...mallett at #15 and dj williams at #79

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 12:03 PM
I get the feeling that if there were no "rumours" r/e Mallett's off-the-field issues, then we would not even have the chance to "sniff" him at #15.

Every day when I see an article that questions his leadership or character, I get that warm fuzzy feeling inside

You're absolutely right. If he had a sterling character history then the Panthers would be choosing right now between Cam Newton and Ryan Mallett and I wouldn't be surprised if they chose Mallett. In fact, that would be my best guess as to where he goes. As things stand, they're INSISTING that Ryan Mallett is among the 8 players they're considering at #1 overall, and Mallett was just in Charlotte for a visit with them like 3-4 days ago.

Now on the other hand, if you're playing the hypothetical game and you supposed that both Mallett and Newton had their character histories wiped clean...that becomes a nice question, one guy or the other. Obviously I know where Slimm falls in that. I think I would go with Newton, but it would be a tough one.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 12:05 PM
i think we are going arkansas back to back...mallett at #15 and dj williams at #79

Yeah well according to all those people in the press that have never been in a huddle with Ryan Mallett, it's extremely rare to find a player that has played with Mallett and believes in him...so bring D.J. Williams on board and you've got a built in believer. :)

TedSlimmJr
04-12-2011, 12:24 PM
I agree that Alabama and Ohio State were two of the best defenses in the country. Although I personally believe you can see a lot from how a guy faces Nebraska, Boston College, and Oklahoma as well. And Iowa. Not ready to toss those out and pretend they don't compare with Alabama and Ohio State. They do. But there's no doubt that some guys particularly Gabbert seem to be given a free pass versus Mallett...probably because of the character thing.

Too much is made of Mallett's performance against Bama. Three bad interceptions, no doubt about it. But otherwise he had two or three times more good plays than bad, and that was being very nitpicky with the bad plays. He needs to learn when to give up on a bad play. That's one of his most consistent problems, when he does screw up.

And I felt Mallett's Ohio State performance was about equal to Gabbert's Iowa performance, both good overall against good pass defenses. Both threw the critical interception at a bad time. Both were generally throwing the ball all over the field and throwing well for most of the game. Mallett's got a better history against better defenses. Also a better cast though.


Yes, you can see enough from watching quarterbacks play against Nebraska (especially), Oklahoma, Boston College, and Iowa to get an evaluation, but they're not the same thing as facing Alabama's defense.

Every quarterback that has faced Bama's defense over the past 2 years usually either has their most dreadful outing of the season (or career), gets knocked out of the game... or both. You just can't say that about these other teams, it's a different test going up against Saban's Alabama defense. The physical and psychological strain on a quarterback is different.

Gabbert has NO history against good defenses other than a bad one on the rare occassion he was able to face one. Defenses that are considered "good" from the Big-12 aren't on par with the defenses from the SEC. Defenses from the B1G that are considered "good" are a little closer to what the SEC can throw at you every week... mainly only Ohio St. and Iowa. (not counting new B1G member Nebraska).

I think we've attempted to make the best case we can possibly make in order to help people realize that Ryan Mallett is not this gimme sack that people think he is. In fact, he's sacked about 1 in every 16 drop backs, whereas that beast of an athlete Cam Newton is sacked about 1 in every 12 drop backs facing the same defenses.

Blaine Gabbert is sacked less than BOTH of them, but you damn sure can't tell it by watching him play. Jake Locker is sacked more than any of them, at least he has a reason for his lack of accuracy and ability to function like an elite QB prospect from inside the pocket, without even mentioning the fact that he didn't have a checkdown option these other QB's had. His running back always had to stay in and block due to the offensive line being so poor. Locker either had to complete the pass to scrubs down the field, take off and run with it, or eat it. The checkdown option to help pad his completion percentage or take the pressure off his pathetic offensive line trying to sustain blocks wasn't there. The fact that he didn't turn the ball over more than he did considering the circumstances, and his TD/INT ratio is better than Gabbert's despite playing with an even more inferior supporting cast is a credit to him.

Gabbert's supporting cast is a lot better than Locker's, and still couldn't perform better than Locker despite both playing the same Nebraska defense twice over the past 2 years. However, Locker does have a "W" against the Huskers despite his receivers getting run out of bounds 10 yards into their route, Gabbert doesn't.

TrinidadDolfan
04-12-2011, 01:08 PM
You're absolutely right. If he had a sterling character history then the Panthers would be choosing right now between Cam Newton and Ryan Mallett and I wouldn't be surprised if they chose Mallett. In fact, that would be my best guess as to where he goes. As things stand, they're INSISTING that Ryan Mallett is among the 8 players they're considering at #1 overall, and Mallett was just in Charlotte for a visit with them like 3-4 days ago.

Now on the other hand, if you're playing the hypothetical game and you supposed that both Mallett and Newton had their character histories wiped clean...that becomes a nice question, one guy or the other. Obviously I know where Slimm falls in that. I think I would go with Newton, but it would be a tough one.

CK, I have to also state my official position before we get to draft day.

I think that Mallet is the right pick for us, everything considered.

However........if he does not end up in a Fins uniform this year, I hope that he ends up a dismal failure in everything NFL-QB-related.

How is that for an "unbiased" position?

Kinda like hoping that your ex-girlfriend gets fat.

lol

Show Me Your TDs
04-12-2011, 01:17 PM
Too much is made of Mallett's performance against Bama. Three bad interceptions, no doubt about it. But otherwise he had two or three times more good plays than bad, and that was being very nitpicky with the bad plays. He needs to learn when to give up on a bad play. That's one of his most consistent problems, when he does screw up.


I really like Mallet. One of my favorite prospects. But when I read this line I almost of reservations with the whole Henne thing. I can say the same thing about Henne that you just said about Mallet in the Alabama game. It makes me hesitate a little bit......just saying.

finsfanjay13
04-12-2011, 01:24 PM
I agree that Alabama and Ohio State were two of the best defenses in the country. Although I personally believe you can see a lot from how a guy faces Nebraska, Boston College, and Oklahoma as well. And Iowa. Not ready to toss those out and pretend they don't compare with Alabama and Ohio State. They do. But there's no doubt that some guys particularly Gabbert seem to be given a free pass versus Mallett...probably because of the character thing.

Too much is made of Mallett's performance against Bama. Three bad interceptions, no doubt about it. But otherwise he had two or three times more good plays than bad, and that was being very nitpicky with the bad plays. He needs to learn when to give up on a bad play. That's one of his most consistent problems, when he does screw up.

And I felt Mallett's Ohio State performance was about equal to Gabbert's Iowa performance, both good overall against good pass defenses. Both threw the critical interception at a bad time. Both were generally throwing the ball all over the field and throwing well for most of the game. Mallett's got a better history against better defenses. Also a better cast though.

I do recall that after that INT against Ohio State you mentioned the same thing I did in this thread (which I was trying to say, and my only point about Mallett): That Mallett can sometimes kill drives all by himself and be prone to a bad play. That's not verbatim, but you get the point. Regardless, if people ignore his alleged character concerns, he's a top-10 pick with ease. From a pure value play, Mallett is worth it at #15.

miamiz19d
04-12-2011, 01:24 PM
mallets big mark against him is character issues.

thank god we drafted that other guy number 1, and not listening about character issues....I think vontae went 20 something to us, but should have been a top 10 pick but dropped because of character issues. WE have done it before, we well do it again. its human nature.

miamiz19d
04-12-2011, 01:25 PM
and vontae's been nothing but a beast on the field.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 01:26 PM
Yes, you can see enough from watching quarterbacks play against Nebraska (especially), Oklahoma, Boston College, and Iowa to get an evaluation, but they're not the same thing as facing Alabama's defense.

Every quarterback that has faced Bama's defense over the past 2 years usually either has their most dreadful outing of the season (or career), gets knocked out of the game... or both. You just can't say that about these other teams, it's a different test going up against Saban's Alabama defense. The physical and psychological strain on a quarterback is different.

Gabbert has NO history against good defenses other than a bad one on the rare occassion he was able to face one. Defenses that are considered "good" from the Big-12 aren't on par with the defenses from the SEC. Defenses from the B1G that are considered "good" are a little closer to what the SEC can throw at you every week... mainly only Ohio St. and Iowa. (not counting new B1G member Nebraska).

I think we've attempted to make the best case we can possibly make in order to help people realize that Ryan Mallett is not this gimme sack that people think he is. In fact, he's sacked about 1 in every 16 drop backs, whereas that beast of an athlete Cam Newton is sacked about 1 in every 12 drop backs facing the same defenses.

Blaine Gabbert is sacked less than BOTH of them, but you damn sure can't tell it by watching him play. Jake Locker is sacked more than any of them, at least he has a reason for his lack of accuracy and ability to function like an elite QB prospect from inside the pocket, without even mentioning the fact that he didn't have a checkdown option these other QB's had. His running back always had to stay in and block due to the offensive line being so poor. Locker either had to complete the pass to scrubs down the field, take off and run with it, or eat it. The checkdown option to help pad his completion percentage or take the pressure off his pathetic offensive line trying to sustain blocks wasn't there. The fact that he didn't turn the ball over more than he did considering the circumstances, and his TD/INT ratio is better than Gabbert's despite playing with an even more inferior supporting cast is a credit to him.

Gabbert's supporting cast is a lot better than Locker's, and still couldn't perform better than Locker despite both playing the same Nebraska defense twice over the past 2 years. However, Locker does have a "W" against the Huskers despite his receivers getting run out of bounds 10 yards into their route, Gabbert doesn't.

Please. You know damn well Locker was an atrocious passer against Nebraska in both games, and only won the second game because Washington finally figured out that the ONLY way you were going to beat Nebraska's defense is to successfully and consistently pound the ball at them on the ground. I watched Locker face Nebraska twice. I watched Gabbert face Nebraska as well. I graded both, very closely. It's not even close. Not. Even. Close. Blaine Gabbert was the far superior player. He struggled because, that's what quarterbacks generally did against Nebraska's defense when asked to pass on them all day...struggle. Gabbert was that offense, they didn't have a ground game. He was just asked to sit back and pass all day against the best pass defense in the country...throwing the ball right into the teeth of the defense. At least Washington had the kind of ground game to keep Nebraska's defense honest. If not, there's no way in HELL that you see Jake Locker complete that deep 45 yard touchdown to Jermaine Kearse. That pass went right over top of Prince Amukamara. Why? Because Prince was peeking in the backfield on the play-action boot. Would he find himself peeking in the backfield if he wasn't afraid of a Washington rushing attack which would later go on to BEAT Nebraska when they played a second time? Hell...and...no. That 45 yard touchdown was the lone bright spot in what otherwise might be the worst performance I've ever seen a quarterback have, maybe ever. It represented over 60% of Locker's passing yardage that day, and 25% of his completions. Yeah, seriously.

Gabbert didn't have the luxury of a running offense that could scare Prince Amukamara, cause him to peek in the backfield, opening up guys deep. They just went pass, pass, pass all day long. And in the end, he performed far better than Locker. It wasn't even close.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 01:29 PM
I really like Mallet. One of my favorite prospects. But when I read this line I almost of reservations with the whole Henne thing. I can say the same thing about Henne that you just said about Mallet in the Alabama game. It makes me hesitate a little bit......just saying.

Perhaps that's your evaluation of Chad Henne but it's not mine. When I look at Henne against other QBs in this league, that's where he stands out. I tend not to like what Henne is doing on most of his plays. Some of the other guys, I tend to like what they're doing on most of the plays, and then they just have a few bad ones.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 01:31 PM
I do recall that after that INT against Ohio State you mentioned the same thing I did in this thread (which I was trying to say, and my only point about Mallett): That Mallett can sometimes kill drives all by himself and be prone to a bad play. That's not verbatim, but you get the point. Regardless, if people ignore his alleged character concerns, he's a top-10 pick with ease. From a pure value play, Mallett is worth it at #15.

The fact that it was a second time Ryan Mallett got into a serious crunch moment, game on his shoulders, and he threw the game away...that's a red flag. Definitely. It causes you to HAVE to go back deep into his history and see if it's consistent. I did exactly that, and I personally found that it wasn't. And that's one of the ways I became more comfortable with him.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 01:34 PM
Vontae Davis is a perfect example of a guy that had the character whisper campaigns going heavily against him, and with his combination of physical talent especially in that particular draft where most of the corners did not have great physical size and athleticism profiles...he did drop because of those rumors. I don't think there's any denying that. But, at the same time, what have we seen since he got to Miami? Day one starter. One of the hardest working men on the team. Always says the right things. Never a problem. And now he's on his way to being one of the better #1 corners in the league.

And yet, I remember right before the Draft...seeing some "insider" stuff on Vontae Davis, sourced from actual scouts and GMs. It was vicious. They talked about how dumb he is, and how they have no idea how he scored what he did on the wonderlic, must have cheated. They talked about how selfish and immature he is, etc.

The difference between what those "insiders" were saying...and what we've seen from Vontae in Miami...is just so unbelievably stark, I can't even fathom it. It really changed how I approach these types of issues.

miamiz19d
04-12-2011, 01:40 PM
when i think razorback, especially the past few years, i think about a run first team.
theyve had some talented rbs prior to mallet, and invented the wildcat.
so for mallet to go there, and then became what that teams identity was, speaks volumes.
the kid is for real. get him better recievers, with a pass blocking oline, and he would be dangerous.
so what if he had a coke problem, so did marino! and how that turn out?
so what if he has a temper, so did marino! and how that turn out?
so what if he is slow as a snail!, guess what? so was marino and how did that turn out for us?


im just saying, mallet reminds me too much of marino coming out of pitt for us not to take a chance on him!

miamiz19d
04-12-2011, 01:41 PM
Vontae Davis is a perfect example of a guy that had the character whisper campaigns going heavily against him, and with his combination of physical talent especially in that particular draft where most of the corners did not have great physical size and athleticism profiles...he did drop because of those rumors. I don't think there's any denying that. But, at the same time, what have we seen since he got to Miami? Day one starter. One of the hardest working men on the team. Always says the right things. Never a problem. And now he's on his way to being one of the better #1 corners in the league.

And yet, I remember right before the Draft...seeing some "insider" stuff on Vontae Davis, sourced from actual scouts and GMs. It was vicious. They talked about how dumb he is, and how they have no idea how he scored what he did on the wonderlic, must have cheated. They talked about how selfish and immature he is, etc.

The difference between what those "insiders" were saying...and what we've seen from Vontae in Miami...is just so unbelievably stark, I can't even fathom it. It really changed how I approach these types of issues.


perfect.

TedSlimmJr
04-12-2011, 01:49 PM
Please. You know damn well Locker was an atrocious passer against Nebraska in both games, and only won the second game because Washington finally figured out that the ONLY way you were going to beat Nebraska's defense is to successfully and consistently pound the ball at them on the ground. I watched Locker face Nebraska twice. I watched Gabbert face Nebraska as well. I graded both, very closely. It's not even close. Not. Even. Close. Blaine Gabbert was the far superior player. He struggled because, that's what quarterbacks generally did against Nebraska's defense when asked to pass on them all day...struggle. Gabbert was that offense, they didn't have a ground game. He was just asked to sit back and pass all day against the best pass defense in the country...throwing the ball right into the teeth of the defense. At least Washington had the kind of ground game to keep Nebraska's defense honest. If not, there's no way in HELL that you see Jake Locker complete that deep 45 yard touchdown to Jermaine Kearse. That pass went right over top of Prince Amukamara. Why? Because Prince was peeking in the backfield on the play-action boot. Would he find himself peeking in the backfield if he wasn't afraid of a Washington rushing attack which would later go on to BEAT Nebraska when they played a second time? Hell...and...no. That 45 yard touchdown was the lone bright spot in what otherwise might be the worst performance I've ever seen a quarterback have, maybe ever. It represented over 60% of Locker's passing yardage that day, and 25% of his completions. Yeah, seriously.

Gabbert didn't have the luxury of a running offense that could scare Prince Amukamara, cause him to peek in the backfield, opening up guys deep. They just went pass, pass, pass all day long. And in the end, he performed far better than Locker. It wasn't even close.


Gabbert would've been just an atrocious of a passer against Nebraska as Locker if his receivers were getting run out of bounds every play.

That "luxury" running game of Washington's has never scared anybody, much less Nebraska...which is why they're such a bad football team.

Prince gets caught looking in the backfield quite a bit, not just against Washington. Hell, that's why he got toasted by Justin Blackmon all day long...


You won't see a much worse passing performance than the one Locker had the first time around against Nebraska, there's no denying that. However, you also won't see a much worse defensive effort than the one Washington had against Nebraska by allowing the Huskers to run for 400 yards on the ground in no time..

Defenses like Nebraska and Alabama are designed to kill the head of the snake first, the quarterback. Which is why you've seen quarterbacks consistently struggle against these two defenses.. Including Josh Freeman who had almost as dismal of a performance against Nebraska 2 years ago as Jake Locker did..

Jake Locker learned how to beat Nebraska the second time around too, not just Washington. He did it by being the same type of quarterback Cam Newton was in beating SEC defenses, by grinding it out on the ground.

hooshoops
04-12-2011, 01:51 PM
character concerns and drug use concerns to me are not the same thing...i heard all the character stuff about vontae but i never heard drug use

even still vontae in miami has been a lot of the same player he was at illinois imo...supreme talent but same old inconsistent play...that kid could be dominant but i just don't know if he has the want and desire...sometimes i get a content feel from him

finsfanjay13
04-12-2011, 01:58 PM
The fact that it was a second time Ryan Mallett got into a serious crunch moment, game on his shoulders, and he threw the game away...that's a red flag. Definitely. It causes you to HAVE to go back deep into his history and see if it's consistent. I did exactly that, and I personally found that it wasn't. And that's one of the ways I became more comfortable with him.

Oh, I agree. I'm just pawning you to help solidify my argument. :)

miamiz19d
04-12-2011, 02:02 PM
you can overcome drugs, if your luney tunes, your screwed for life.

beanh8er
04-12-2011, 03:06 PM
character concerns and drug use concerns to me are not the same thing...i heard all the character stuff about vontae but i never heard drug use

even still vontae in miami has been a lot of the same player he was at illinois imo...supreme talent but same old inconsistent play...that kid could be dominant but i just don't know if he has the want and desire...sometimes i get a content feel from him

Vontae tested positive for marijuana at the combine.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 03:27 PM
Gabbert would've been just an atrocious of a passer against Nebraska as Locker if his receivers were getting run out of bounds every play.

No, he just has receivers that quit on their routes if they didn't manage to get open immediately.


That "luxury" running game of Washington's has never scared anybody, much less Nebraska...which is why they're such a bad football team.

That's just not even accurate.


Prince gets caught looking in the backfield quite a bit, not just against Washington. Hell, that's why he got toasted by Justin Blackmon all day long...

Think Kendall Hunter and his 26 carries for 201 yards and 2 TDs that day might have had something to do with the reason Prince Amukamara got caught peeking in the backfield against Oklahoma State as well?


Jake Locker learned how to beat Nebraska the second time around too, not just Washington. He did it by being the same type of quarterback Cam Newton was in beating SEC defenses, by grinding it out on the ground.

That's a big stretch. Cam Newton also passed well against those SEC defenses, including going 13 of 20 for 216 yards and 3 TDs with 0 INTs against Alabama.

Jake Locker's never even come close to doing anything even remotely as impressive. Ever.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 03:28 PM
Vontae tested positive for marijuana at the combine.

That was a rumor, and it wasn't true.

Yet another reason not to believe the rumor mills.

beanh8er
04-12-2011, 03:48 PM
That was a rumor, and it wasn't true.

Yet another reason not to believe the rumor mills.

Oh well then my bad. I read it on here he and Percy Harvin tested positive.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 04:12 PM
Oh well then my bad. I read it on here he and Percy Harvin tested positive.

Not your fault. I remember that pretty well too. It was a rumor that got hot at one point. It's just an example though of how you can't always believe the rumor mills. After all there's NFLDraftBible that broke the story that Brian Cushing and Clay Matthews tested positive for steroids at the Combine. That turned out not to be true. Was a decent guess, because people had been speculating about Cushing on steroids for years and of course Clay Matthews went from nobody's radar to ridiculously good football player in a very short amount of time. But nonetheless, they were clean at the Combine.

TedSlimmJr
04-12-2011, 07:05 PM
No, he just has receivers that quit on their routes if they didn't manage to get open immediately.



That's just not even accurate.



Think Kendall Hunter and his 26 carries for 201 yards and 2 TDs that day might have had something to do with the reason Prince Amukamara got caught peeking in the backfield against Oklahoma State as well?



That's a big stretch. Cam Newton also passed well against those SEC defenses, including going 13 of 20 for 216 yards and 3 TDs with 0 INTs against Alabama.

Jake Locker's never even come close to doing anything even remotely as impressive. Ever.


Cam Newton did pass well against SEC competition, but it's because of how much respect teams had to pay to his RUNNING ABILITY. The SAME respect you're talking about Nebraska having to pay to Kendall Hunter... or Jake Locker's "luxury" of a running game..

Very, very, very few of all those rushing yards and rushing TD's Cam Newton piled up translates to the NFL... he's going to have to learn how to beat defenses with his head. He's going to have to deal with losing, and respond... which he's never had to do before.

Jake Locker's obviously never faced Alabama before, but he had a pretty impressive performance against LSU as a junior when he almost beat them singlehandedly... passing for 320+ yards, 2 TD's and only 1 pick..

Cal's defense isn't exactly garbage, just ask Oregon.. Locker completed 82% of his passes for almost 250 yards, 3 TD's and no picks. He's had a few games where he completed anywhere from 60-67% of his passes, for 280+ yards and 4-5 TD passes and no interceptions against Oregon St. and Syracuse... Arizona, etc... with NOTHING around him.

80+ yards of those 216 passing yards, and 1 of those TD's Cam Newton had against Alabama was one of the luckiest touchdown passes he'll ever throw. Throw that same pass up to a Mark Barron who's arm isn't dragging the ground because of a torn pec and see what happens.

Trust me, there's few things I would like to see more than Cam having to face Alabama again....I can't help but like our chances.

lil tom digby
04-12-2011, 09:01 PM
Rickd13, shame on you.

I am really disappointed that you had to get personal with this. Are you always this sensitive about each wisecrack made about Bush? If I had a funny avatar with "Oprah" in it, would you accuse me of hating women? If I posted a picture of a cheerleader would you accuse me of being "sexist"? Wow..

As for "Dolphin39" and "lil tom gigby" who posted a "thanks" to Rickd13's comments, shame on you too. You both should have known better.

Since when is Finheaven a place where we start pointing fingers at each other based on what we "perceive" as nationality, race, gender, where we live, where we don't live etc...

I am glad to know that the majority of Finheaven does not support your "finger-pointing", "over-sensitive" rudeness.

So....... keep the political/racial thoughts inside your head, do not get personal again, and lets get back to talking Fins football o.k?


p.s For the record, I voted for Bush junior AND senior.

So quit crying about "political commentary" (which is wasn't) and, for heaven's sake....

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif


I very seldom post on Finheavan, mostly just read. I'm not 10 years old and don't appreciate being scolded by somone I don't know and who doesn't know me.
For the record I don't care what your nationality is or what flag you fly as you avatar. Your caption with former President Bush's picture struck me wrong, didn't care for it. If I hurt your feelings or offended you in some way I do appologize, but you might wanna keep in mind that the "Lighten up, Francis" river runs both ways.

PhinsTD
04-12-2011, 11:53 PM
You just know Miami is going to trade down and take a lineman. It's not like that's a terrible idea, it's just that when your franchise doesn't have a QB, and you have a chance to take one with the talent to be a stud, you take him and figure out a lineman later.

I like Carimi for this team. I like Sherrod for this team in an extreme trade down as a LG. I like Franklin as a LG as well. But I like Ryan Mallett or Ponder more because we have to finally be bold rather than conservative at a position that the entire NFL seems to be setting up to succeed.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 11:56 PM
Hah my buddy Vince told me last night that he booked a trip for he and his girl to Jamaica without realizing it was Draft weekend. I told him he's better off. He agreed.

Roonnette
04-13-2011, 01:12 AM
Mallett would be my pick, and the Dolphins must take Mallett.

That said, here is my #1 knock on Mallett: Mallett was not the best player on the field at Sugar Bowl. The best player was Pryor.
I want my first round draft pick to be the best player on the field.
ON the bright side. Mallett was often the best player on the field in a tough conference, and if not the best then second best.

Kdawg954
04-13-2011, 08:12 AM
Mallett would be my pick, and the Dolphins must take Mallett.

That said, here is my #1 knock on Mallett: Mallett was not the best player on the field at Sugar Bowl. The best player was Pryor.
I want my first round draft pick to be the best player on the field.
ON the bright side. Mallett was often the best player on the field in a tough conference, and if not the best then second best.

I think Pryor was the best athlete on the field, but the best player on the field THAT night was Ryan Mallet. If he had help from his receivers his stats would have been incredible . . . against a real solid Ohio State defense. Hell, his stats were still great.

Is the lack of athleticism a concern . . . I would hope so. Is it a big enough concern to overlook his ability as a passer and ability to make all the throws with a quick release, not even close . . . especially because he can manuever around in the pocket good enough to have more than enough success in the NFL.

The biggest concern is the "off the field" stuff. How bad is it? Did he experiment with coke as a college kid and he is done? Does he have post college football coke binges? Does he play "coked" up during the season? Is he really "not" a team player. The Miami Dolphins, and nobody else, need to research all these things and make sure they feel comfortable selecting him . . . in hopes of finally landing a franchise QB.

This isn't meant to be a slight towards Mallet . . . but doesn't he seem like you could catch him on a Friday night at King of Diamonds with Rick Ross on a sofa just "throwing it up" if he came down here? If he comes down to Miami he is going to get ALOT of ***** and alot of people are gonna want to be around him.

hooshoops
04-13-2011, 09:36 AM
Mallett would be my pick, and the Dolphins must take Mallett.

That said, here is my #1 knock on Mallett: Mallett was not the best player on the field at Sugar Bowl. The best player was Pryor.
I want my first round draft pick to be the best player on the field.
ON the bright side. Mallett was often the best player on the field in a tough conference, and if not the best then second best.

the best player on the field in the sugar bowl was cameron heyward...

ChambersWI
04-13-2011, 09:40 AM
honestly I'm warming up to Mallett, but my dream scenario would be some how getting a 2nd round pick and end up with the first 3 rounds being
1.Christian Ponder
2.Mikkel Leshoure
3.DJ Williams

might be a bit unrealistic but somewhat possible. I really feel we need to get a few playmakers in this draft and LeShoure and Williams are hust what the doctor ordered