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juice1348
04-11-2011, 12:59 PM
Greg Cox has us taking Christian Ponder at 15, saying that we "really like this guy". Leaving Locker, Mallet and others on the table and taking Ponder would leave ME scratching my head for sure. Reading his "strengths and weaknesses" it sounds as if hes a Henne/Pennington hybrid. Which, means I would probably go Locker or Mallet if I am going QB first round. I just dont see Ponder as an improvement over Henne.

Thoughts?




http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2011/04/CPonder-1.jpg

Christian Ponder, 6-2/229

Quarterback

Florida State



Christian Ponder Scouting Report
By Greg Cox

Strengths: Short- to intermediate-area accuracy and touch
Good mechanics and footwork
Mobile with scrambling ability
Experience under center in pro-style offense
Three-year starter
Very intelligent (completed MBA)
High character leader - team captain


<SCRIPT language='JavaScript1.1' SRC="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/N1558.CW/B3410231.3;abr=!ie;sz=300x250;click=http://cdslog.contextweb.com/CDSLogger/L.aspx?q=C~505600~795~47187~81489~23985~3~315~25~walterfootball.com~2~8~1~0~2~1~8xsIZH6l80GKmWui5cmE97Ayaljq4HdM~71~2~iLzh3d70rFP2~1WpHWg03uuOM~1~1~1~AK_CX1.RRI01.NETM7~;ord=1345885158?"> </SCRIPT> <NOSCRIPT> <A HREF="http://cdslog.contextweb.com/CDSLogger/L.aspx?q=C~505600~795~47187~81489~23985~3~315~25~walterfootball.com~2~8~1~0~2~1~8xsIZH6l80GKmWui5cmE97Ayaljq4HdM~71~2~iLzh3d70rFP2~1WpHWg03uuOM~1~1~1~AK_CX1.RRI01.NETM7~http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/N1558.CW/B3410231.3;abr=!ie4;abr=!ie5;sz=300x250;ord=1345885158?"> <IMG SRC="http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/N1558.CW/B3410231.3;abr=!ie4;abr=!ie5;sz=300x250;ord=1345885158?" BORDER=0 WIDTH=300 HEIGHT=250 ALT="Click Here"></A> </NOSCRIPT> http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2011/04/pc18c22102c3315c447187c5c6c1515812c7952c-1.jpg

Weaknesses: Average arm strength
Might be limited to West Coast offense
Forces throws that NFL players will intercept
Questionable decision making
Injury history (shoulder, elbow)

Summary: Christian Ponder watched his draft stock take a dive when his 2009 season was cut short by a separated shoulder. His 2010 campaign was inconsistent, and an elbow injury is now problematic as well. However, the draft process has gone very well for him. He had a good Senior Bowl and threw well at the Combine. Perhaps some teams will feel he has regained some of his arm strength, but with several surgeries on his resume, there is cause for concern.

Ponder can make all the NFL throws including the deep ball. The question is accuracy down the field, and whether or not he will adjust his mindset at the next level where every defender is a professional capable of intercepting a poorly thrown ball.

Player Comparison: Chad Pennington. Recently, Pennington's long, mostly average NFL career likely came to an end on a basketball court when he blew out his knee. Injuries plagued him during his 11 seasons in the league, just like they have bothered Ponder in college. It might be premature to expect Ponder to match Pennington's accuracy at the NFL level where he completed almost two of every three passes out of 2,471 he tossed, but that is what he will try to emulate. Both players are smart, and Ponder should have a steady, if not spectacular run as Pennington did.

BostonPhin4
04-11-2011, 01:13 PM
Chad Henne's arm with Chad Pennington's head would be a ridiculously good QB for this or any team. But unfortunately in this case it also comes with Chad Pennington's injury concerns which is the deal breaker for me. I have no doubt this kid has talent, I just worry about his ability to stay upright, and healthy.

That said, #15 is to early for Ponder IMHO. Unless we are absolutely 100% convinced he is a starter in the NFL, and his injuries will not be a problem.

He wouldn't be my pick at #15, I would rather have Mallet. But I wouldn't be ridiculously upset. I would be happy that this team finally 1. Identified their guy and 2. Went out and got him even if it meant reaching a little in the draft. As opposed to all this "value" 2nd and 3rd round QB s***.

sinPHIN
04-11-2011, 01:15 PM
i dont see ponder as an improvement ether

flynryan15
04-11-2011, 01:17 PM
Ponder at 15? Not a chance!

Aqua and Orange
04-11-2011, 01:20 PM
I'll be on the other side of the coin from my fellow posters and say that if the Dolphins see Ponder as their QB answer, 100% I would love us to take him at 15. The back end of the 1st round could very well be full of teams trying to leapfrog for QBs, and I see this particular position as one the team needs to make a strong decision on.

As I've said numerous times, Ponder is my player in this draft I think the Dolphins would regret not getting. I think if the team has reservations about Mallett, this is the player they should attempt to draft.

Plus, the Dolphins could do worse than a young version of the QB who most recently gave them an AFC East title...

Vaark
04-11-2011, 01:22 PM
I'm getting the Brees vibe from Ponder. I believe he's been given a clean bill of health. While I think 15 for him is a reach, unlike for Mallett, I'd be perfectly okay trading out of that 15 spot for something in the mid-20s and a 2nd rounder and then grabbing him there.

vagrantprodigy
04-11-2011, 01:22 PM
I don't see investing a first round pick on a guy who people hope will turn into Pennington.

newlownorder
04-11-2011, 01:32 PM
Yes to Ponder. He will be a better QB in the NFL than people right now give him credit for. According to Mike Mayock Ponder and Dalton are ranked together like 5a and 5b. I'll put money down right now that Ponder has a better career in the NFL than Dalton, and I'll spot you a Locker as well.

ckparrothead
04-11-2011, 01:40 PM
I don't have a problem with Christian Ponder at #15. I would prefer Ryan Mallett, though.

I would much rather have Christian Ponder than Jake Locker, Andy Dalton, or Colin Kaepernick.

When Christian Ponder struggles, it's against a good defense that plays smart and is able to get a beat on Florida State's overly simplistic offense. Tom Wort, the starting middle linebacker for the Oklahoma Sooners, told us flat out in interview. Simon did a piece on him for Sports Illustrated, so we have a relationship with Wort and so we took advantage of that to do an interview where we could ask about the QBs he faced, Ponder and Gabbert. He said that on the field, that first drive or so Ponder just drove them nuts, very difficult to handle. They came back to the sidelines huffing and puffing and saying we've got to get a handle on this guy, he's a lot more physically strong and fast on the field than you think, very hard to defend in the passing game and very hard to defend in his option plays. Wort said they were able to turn the tide on Ponder not because of anything Christian was doing, but because nothing that Florida State called was different from what they'd seen on film. Wort said the offense and play calls were simple, they kept repeating plays that Oklahoma had already seen on tape, and so they were jumping all over everything. He felt bad for Ponder because he knew that in a more complex and hard to figure out offense like the one Blaine Gabbert got to run in Missouri, Christian would have been a lot better. You could tell Wort wanted to say that Ponder is the better QB between he and Gabbert but that Gabbert's offense allowed him to be the more dangerous player to them. If Oklahoma was able to get an easy read on Florida State's play calling, then I know Boston College's defense did the same thing.

Meanwhile Andy Dalton the thing that concerns me is when I dissect his game he's always doing more bad than good. Very inconsistent play to play, and that turns into inconsistency week to week. It's one thing if you're Ryan Mallett and you have a rough day at the office against Alabama or Ohio State, two of the best defenses in college football (maybe the two best). Heck, even if you have a bad day against Boston College and Oklahoma as Ponder did, when your offense is so full of people that drop the ball and so predictable...again, that's one thing. But it's another thing if you're Andy Dalton and you've got more bad plays than good against the likes of Oregon State, San Diego State and Colorado State! That's what I have found, personally...can't speak for others. I grade hard. Very hard. I found 25 good plays for Mallett against Alabama and 10 bad ones and 5 of the 10 bad plays were extremely nitpicky, but I put them in the minus category anyway. I found Andy Dalton usually has more bad plays than good, even on a day when he dropped some GREAT statistics like against San Diego State. That inconsistency and willingness to take chances that border on stupidity against bad defensive teams bothers the crap out of me. You have to take chances against Ohio State, Alabama, Oklahoma and Boston College, otherwise you suffocate. You don't have to play reckless against San Diego State, Oregon State or Colorado State in order to overwhelm them...not when you have guys like Kerley, Young, Boyce, a good OL, a stable of RBs, and some really nifty offensive coaching.

Colin Kaepernick put up better statistics than Ponder against mostly poorer opponents. The WAC is a very bad defensive conference. Just look at Bryant Moniz' and Ryan Colburn's stats if you want to see other QBs that probably won't be pros, that did well in that conference. He didn't do well versus better opponents, but he didn't pass the ball terribly, either. It's nothing like Jake Locker and how awfully he played as a passer whenever the opponent was good. Colin has more physical ability than Ponder (stronger arm, more straight line speed) but his decision-making and anticipation within a pro style offense is slower, and his slow release compounds that issue. Don't know if I'd call the ball placement or accuracy of one better than the other. I think Ponder is more agile, elusive, but that Kaepernick has that straight line build up speed.

Jake Locker...jesus. I have no idea why ANYONE likes him. This is not a premium quarterback prospect, period. He did not read the field AT ALL. He did not throw accurately AT ALL. I keep hearing "when does a guy with his talent fall out of the 1st round"...and thinking to myself, you're going to have to define "talent" for me because obviously we're working with different definitiones of quarterback talent. The ability to throw a football and have it be caught is pretty important to the whole concept of quarterback talent, and Jake Locker didn't do that.

Boomer
04-11-2011, 01:44 PM
You could tell Wort wanted to say that Ponder is the better QB between he and Gabbert but that Gabbert's offense allowed him to be the more dangerous player to them. If Oklahoma was able to get an easy read on Florida State's play calling, then I know Boston College's defense did the same thing.



That's absolutely the abiding impression I got from speaking to Tom.

I personally think Ponder's going higher than people think and he's right in the mix at 15. I think he has terrific upside and ticks all the boxes that Sprano talked about in the immediate aftermath of the season.

TedSlimmJr
04-11-2011, 02:06 PM
I like Ponder but I don't think he's worth the 15th pick in the draft. However, I think Ponder at #15 is MUCH less of a reach/risk than whoever ends up taking Blaine Gabbert or Cam Newton in the top 10. Any front office that decides to take either of those two quarterbacks in the top 10 is just as likely to be out of a job in 3 years as Miami's current regime.

The difference is drafting a quarterback like Ponder at #15 isn't going to cost you your job in 3 years if he doesn't pan out. If they DON'T find a quarterback and find one soon, they're going to be out of a job anyway...

Bottom line is Miami is likely going to be faced with a situation where they're going to HAVE to reach a little bit on a prospect at #15 if they intend on addressing any critical needs with quality football players...

...with the wildcard, and their best hope of hitting a homerun being fortunate enough to have the best passer in the draft in Ryan Mallett, staring them in the face with the 15th pick in the draft, and having the guts to take him.

Aqua and Orange
04-11-2011, 02:28 PM
I like Ponder but I don't think he's worth the 15th pick in the draft. However, I think Ponder at #15 is MUCH less of a reach/risk than whoever ends up taking Blaine Gabbert or Cam Newton in the top 10. Any front office that decides to take either of those two quarterbacks in the top 10 is just as likely to be out of a job in 3 years as Miami's current regime.

The difference is drafting a quarterback like Ponder at #15 isn't going to cost you your job in 3 years if he doesn't pan out. If they DON'T find a quarterback and find one soon, they're going to be out of a job anyway...

Bottom line is Miami is likely going to be faced with a situation where they're going to HAVE to reach a little bit on a prospect at #15 if they intend on addressing any critical needs with quality football players...

...with the wildcard, and their best hope of hitting a homerun being fortunate enough to have the best passer in the draft in Ryan Mallett, staring them in the face with the 15th pick in the draft, and having the guts to take him.

If Mallett is available at 15, I would hope the Dolphins would snap him up in a second. One problem is I could easily see the Vikings taking Mallett at 12, given their obvious need at QB and the bottom line that (despite what they say) Locker is a bad choice at that spot. Were that to happen, I think Ponder at 15 makes a ton of sense.

Also, despite what others say to the contrary, I could even see the Jags taking Ponder at 16. He would fit well on that team.

hooshoops
04-11-2011, 02:55 PM
Chad Henne's arm with Chad Pennington's head would be a ridiculously good QB for this or any team. But unfortunately in this case it also comes with Chad Pennington's injury concerns which is the deal breaker for me. I have no doubt this kid has talent, I just worry about his ability to stay upright, and healthy.

That said, #15 is to early for Ponder IMHO. Unless we are absolutely 100% convinced he is a starter in the NFL, and his injuries will not be a problem.

He wouldn't be my pick at #15, I would rather have Mallet. But I wouldn't be ridiculously upset. I would be happy that this team finally 1. Identified their guy and 2. Went out and got him even if it meant reaching a little in the draft. As opposed to all this "value" 2nd and 3rd round QB s***.

ponder doesn't have chad henne's arm

TrinidadDolfan
04-11-2011, 03:29 PM
Framed and placed on the ceiling above Sparano's 4-poster bed?.....:


http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2011/04/ea510e4fc8dd4853b4bb966c93bcb1bf-1.jpg


Maybe...just maybe....Sparano is coming for him instead?

Dogbone34
04-11-2011, 03:30 PM
ponder is too short for the nfl. those guys always struggle at the next level.

he's not drew brees coming out of purdue and brees is the size exeption

Aqua and Orange
04-11-2011, 04:06 PM
ponder is too short for the nfl. those guys always struggle at the next level.

he's not drew brees coming out of purdue and brees is the size exeption

Christian Ponder, QB
Height: 6-3 Weight: 227

Steve Young, QB
Height: 6-2 Weight: 215

Joe Montana, QB
Height: 6-2 Weight: 200

Joe Namath, QB
Height: 6-2 Weight: 200

Plus, Locker and Dalton are the same size and are being considered 1st and 2nd round prospects. As long as they are over Pat White's phantom "6 foot tall", I am okay with them.

ckparrothead
04-11-2011, 04:43 PM
I like Ponder but I don't think he's worth the 15th pick in the draft. However, I think Ponder at #15 is MUCH less of a reach/risk than whoever ends up taking Blaine Gabbert or Cam Newton in the top 10. Any front office that decides to take either of those two quarterbacks in the top 10 is just as likely to be out of a job in 3 years as Miami's current regime.

The difference is drafting a quarterback like Ponder at #15 isn't going to cost you your job in 3 years if he doesn't pan out. If they DON'T find a quarterback and find one soon, they're going to be out of a job anyway...

Bottom line is Miami is likely going to be faced with a situation where they're going to HAVE to reach a little bit on a prospect at #15 if they intend on addressing any critical needs with quality football players...

...with the wildcard, and their best hope of hitting a homerun being fortunate enough to have the best passer in the draft in Ryan Mallett, staring them in the face with the 15th pick in the draft, and having the guts to take him.

I agree with you that in a perfect world you don't have to take Ponder at #15. But, quarterbacks are expensive. If you don't take a healthy amount of risk on then you don't get a healthy amount of talent. That's the way it has become.

JC
04-11-2011, 05:05 PM
ponder is too short for the nfl. those guys always struggle at the next level.

he's not drew brees coming out of purdue and brees is the size exeption

I don't think you realize that Ponder is 6'3. If that is too short for quarterback then there would be a lot of players out of a job right now.

clownfish
04-11-2011, 05:25 PM
I don't think you realize that Ponder is 6'3. If that is too short for quarterback then there would be a lot of players out of a job right now.

Yeah, I always thought 6'5" and up is ideal, but not the norm. I would say 6'3" is pretty average for today's NFL QB.

Wishfishin
04-11-2011, 05:37 PM
I'm actually hoping Mallett is gone before we pick at 15. That way we can all get behind the Ponder pick. Of course there will be some fans whining that we should have traded up....

hooshoops
04-11-2011, 05:38 PM
ponder i thought was 6 ft 2 229 lbs...

ronnieb_23
04-11-2011, 05:42 PM
I'm hoping they go with Mallet because there was waaaaaay to many defected passes at the line of scrimmage last year. Maybe it was because the interior o-line wasn't that good but Ponder is the same height as Henne. With Mallet at 6'7" he should still be able to throw over a collapsing interior.

X-Pacolypse
04-11-2011, 06:26 PM
ponder is too short for the nfl. those guys always struggle at the next level.

he's not drew brees coming out of purdue and brees is the size exeption

I'm not a Christian Ponder fan, but that statement is ridiculous.

Dogbone34
04-11-2011, 09:04 PM
I'm not a Christian Ponder fan, but that statement is ridiculous.

let me clarify, i prefer the 6'4 and above QB at the NFL level. ponder doesn't have a rifle and he's injury prone.

some can succeed but i'll take manning/brady/big ben/rivers/ryan/marino size any day, than waste picks on another back up.

SF Dolphin Fan
04-11-2011, 11:24 PM
I'll be on the other side of the coin from my fellow posters and say that if the Dolphins see Ponder as their QB answer, 100% I would love us to take him at 15. The back end of the 1st round could very well be full of teams trying to leapfrog for QBs, and I see this particular position as one the team needs to make a strong decision on.

As I've said numerous times, Ponder is my player in this draft I think the Dolphins would regret not getting. I think if the team has reservations about Mallett, this is the player they should attempt to draft.

Plus, the Dolphins could do worse than a young version of the QB who most recently gave them an AFC East title...I agree. When you start comparing Ponder with other quarterbacks in this draft he keeps looking better and better. His footwork, I feel, is the best in his class. I'd compare him more to a Jeff Garcia because he has that type of athletic ability or a more athletic Chad Pennington. His injuries scare me, but otherwise I definitely see him as the most NFL ready.

newlownorder
04-11-2011, 11:32 PM
let me clarify, i prefer the 6'4 and above QB at the NFL level. ponder doesn't have a rifle and he's injury prone.

some can succeed but i'll take manning/brady/big ben/rivers/ryan/marino size any day, than waste picks on another back up.


Can you tell me what film you're watching or at least what games because I'm not seeing backup QB?

Dogbone34
04-12-2011, 12:25 AM
Can you tell me what film you're watching or at least what games because I'm not seeing backup QB?

i'm not saying he sucks, he was pretty good in college

i just wouldn't draft him early, plus i always go big at QB

unless mallet is our 1st round pick, our 1st and 3rd need to play now

MadDog 88
04-12-2011, 01:06 AM
I'd prefer the Fins take Mallet at 15 but if he is gone, Ponder would be an excellent choice for me. As much as I'd like to recoup the second, I wouldn't run the risk of dropping down if Ponder is available.

MadDog 88
04-12-2011, 01:08 AM
let me clarify, i prefer the 6'4 and above QB at the NFL level. ponder doesn't have a rifle and he's injury prone.

some can succeed but i'll take manning/brady/big ben/rivers/ryan/marino size any day, than waste picks on another back up.

This line of thinking runs parallel with Parcells rules. Because a guy is 1 inch short or your preference should not be a nullifier if he has the potential to be what you need at that position.

Fintastic2124
04-12-2011, 02:03 AM
I don't understand why we're having these conversations about a QB in round one, because it was foretold that we're taking Mike Pouncey. If you guys didn't know already, we have fortune tellers on this board....

spiketex
04-12-2011, 06:47 AM
I think that he's one of our best draft QB options. Without a second round pick they could be tempted to pull the trigger, even if it's a bit of a reach, because we need to develop a good young QB. Too many teams need to draft a QB. Everything that I hear is that Ponder is very solid plus the high character, high football IQ attributes that GMs love. It makes sense to me.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 10:52 AM
let me clarify, i prefer the 6'4 and above QB at the NFL level. ponder doesn't have a rifle and he's injury prone.

some can succeed but i'll take manning/brady/big ben/rivers/ryan/marino size any day, than waste picks on another back up.

Height is a factor. I find the cut off though to be more along the lines of 6'1" being problematic. But there have been plenty of 6'1" quarterbacks that succeeded.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 10:54 AM
If I were able to get my hands on a Ryan Mallett in this Draft, I would be comfortable with what I've done at the position. If I'm down to a Christian Ponder at #15, then I'd start figuring out a way to hedge, I think.

Spesh
04-12-2011, 11:15 AM
let me clarify, i prefer the 6'4 and above QB at the NFL level. ponder doesn't have a rifle and he's injury prone.

some can succeed but i'll take manning/brady/big ben/rivers/ryan/marino size any day, than waste picks on another back up.

Superbowl MVP Aaron Rodgers: 6-2, 225. I'd like his struggling on my team any day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Jar435rnc

If your looking for more reasons to dislike Ponder, i have it on good authority he once stole a cookie from a class mate in elementary school. Keep it on the low, i have to protect my sources.

Spesh
04-12-2011, 11:27 AM
As im a Ponder fan, this is obviously biased, but i believe the value argument is tricky. A player is worth only as much as a team thinks. There is a very real chance that the Jaguars could be looking for a quarterback a mere spot later(Garrard, whom they werent fond of anyways, turned 33 in February). If you have a chance to draft a player you feel can become the face of the franchise, then you have to pull the trigger and forget the supposed draft pick value.

Would our draft be as good as it could be? No. But all is forgiven if you can find a franchise quarterback. The only other glaring needs on our team can be filled elsewhere, especially if we get a free agency later this year.

Dogbone34
04-12-2011, 03:24 PM
Superbowl MVP Aaron Rodgers: 6-2, 225. I'd like his struggling on my team any day.

rodgers has never been injury prone (concussions now) and always had a cannon for an arm

Spesh
04-12-2011, 03:37 PM
rodgers has never been injury prone (concussions now) and always had a cannon for an arm

At one point in time, he was considered injury prone. That was the perception that was later proved mostly false.



After inexperience, maybe the next biggest concern about fourth-year quarterback Aaron Rodgers (http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/AaronRodgers/) is his inability to stay healthy. That fear may be more perception than reality, but as we all know, perception is nine-tenths the law. Or something.

Anyway, Rodgers spoke to the media yesterday, and he was asked about the idea that he's injury prone (http://blogs.jsonline.com/packers/archive/2008/05/21/rodgers-on-being-injury-prone.aspx):

"I think it does kind of bother me to say that [I'm injury prone]. To me, when somebody says injury prone, it has a negative connotation to it and a lot of times people can say you're soft because of it. I mean, I had a broken foot and a torn hamstring."


http://www.aolnews.com/2008/05/23/aaron-rodgers-does-not-like-to-be-called-soft-just-because-hes/

Funny how that works. And if you missed the video, its a +50 yard bomb Ponder threw across his body while on the move hitting the wideout in stride.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 04:39 PM
Aaron Rodgers also had to fight a perception that there's a "playoff monkey" on his back. He was none too kind with people that said that to him. He was like, "What monkey on my back? I've played in one playoff game. We lost 45-51."

He scored 5 touchdowns in that game, 4 passing and 1 running. This includes a touchdown he threw with 1:52 remaining in the game, down 38-45. He tied the game up and brought it into overtime. But in overtime he was sacked on 3rd & 6 by Mike Adams, who forced the fumble which Karlos Dansby recovered and returned for a touchdown. The Cardinals went on to the Super Bowl and nearly won if not for that incredible last second throw and catch from Roethlisberger to Holmes.

And yet, you listen to the press, Aaron Rodgers had a "playoff monkey" on his back.

Lord Of Miami
04-13-2011, 04:26 AM
Ponder would beat Henne out and it would just be a matter of days and not weeks in camp.

The only way Henne would keep his job is if he has gotten hands down better this off season.If Henne was cut, only a hand full of teams would call him to be a backup.

The best thing for this team would be for Henne to play MUCH BETTER but i think some of you are holding on to that hope and have forgot just how bad our QB play was last year.

phinfan1983
04-13-2011, 04:35 AM
I'm a Ponder fan. IMO he's the best QB in this draft. He's intelligent, accurate, has adequate arm strenght, escapeble from the pocket, quick to read defenses.

IMO he's going to be one of the special QBs in the future. I feel Miami would be fool to pass on him if he's available at 15.

rickd13
04-16-2011, 08:36 AM
The closer we get to the draft the more I want the Dolphins to draft Ponder and to stay away from Mallett. I was not impressed with Mallett when I saw him with Gruden during his QB camp segment. I get the impression that Gruden wasn't too impressed with him either. If you saw how enthusiastic and the type of questions Gruden was asking Jake Locker as compared to Mallett it seemed obvious that Gruden has doubts about Mallett.

Skree
04-16-2011, 01:48 PM
I get the impression that Gruden wasn't too impressed with him either. From what ?

Are you seriously saying that because of the way he interacted with 1 player vs how he was with another, when you have no clue what the situational variables were that surrounded the interactions, you can tell who he thought better of ?

If I misread your logic then same question, from what ?

Skree
04-16-2011, 01:55 PM
If I were able to get my hands on a Ryan Mallett in this Draft, I would be comfortable with what I've done at the position. If I'm down to a Christian Ponder at #15, then I'd start figuring out a way to hedge, I think.Are you thinking veteran backup in FA or are you thinking Ponder backed up by TJ Yates if you can get him late enough ?

PhinsPhan11
04-16-2011, 02:22 PM
Ponder will be an ok QB, but we want to draft someone who will be a great QB.

rickd13
04-16-2011, 04:06 PM
From what ?

Are you seriously saying that because of the way he interacted with 1 player vs how he was with another, when you have no clue what the situational variables were that surrounded the interactions, you can tell who he thought better of ?

If I misread your logic then same question, from what ?

The question's he asked him had something to do with it. The fact that he told him he would blitz the crap out of him, because obviously he doesn't believe he could handle it from what he has seen. Gruden got on him, when they were on the field together, about doing the drills too slow. He told him to move like he would at game speed.

Casas9425
04-16-2011, 04:28 PM
as long as they leave the first round with Mallett or Ponder I'll be happy. With that said I think Ponder has the skills that Ireland and Sparano want: smarts, accuracy and speed.

newlownorder
04-16-2011, 04:50 PM
How depressing is it to know that we passed on Drew Brees twice (in FA and draft) and passed on Aaron Rodgers in the draft? Are we really going to pass on another good QB?

Skree
04-16-2011, 06:31 PM
The question's he asked him had something to do with it. The fact that he told him he would blitz the crap out of him, because obviously he doesn't believe he could handle it from what he has seen. Gruden got on him, when they were on the field together, about doing the drills too slow. He told him to move like he would at game speed.All I can say is, I hope you realize the amout of footage filmed and that it's a show with editors that determine for thier own entertainment reasons what footage goes into it. That's about the on the field part. Unless you were there, for all you know he says that to every player at some point.

"because obviously he doesn't believe he could handle it from what he has seen" I also hope you realize you completely made that up. Unless you asked him how could you know that ?

I would argue that it's maybe because you would do that to any pocket passer, until he burns you enough, if he can. It's not like RM is in any way hiding from that or that teams have not always tried to do that to him. And I believe RM is the one who said it 1st. He owns it. What's new about that ?

jamvinny
04-16-2011, 06:31 PM
How depressing is it to know that we passed on Drew Brees twice (in FA and draft) and passed on Aaron Rodgers in the draft? Are we really going to pass on another good QB?

You are right. This franchise cannot afford to miss out again on a good qb. Time will tell whether its this year's class or not.

I'm happy to take either Mallett and Ponder at 15. Its a position of need and priority. Its the most important position on the field.

I think Dave Wannstedt's non-urgent approach to securing a franchise QB has lingered far too long in Miami and has been our failing as well as part of our demise.

rickd13
04-16-2011, 08:02 PM
All I can say is, I hope you realize the amout of footage filmed and that it's a show with editors that determine for thier own entertainment reasons what footage goes into it. That's about the on the field part. Unless you were there, for all you know he says that to every player at some point.

"because obviously he doesn't believe he could handle it from what he has seen" I also hope you realize you completely made that up. Unless you asked him how could you know that ?

I would argue that it's maybe because you would do that to any pocket passer, until he burns you enough, if he can. It's not like RM is in any way hiding from that or that teams have not always tried to do that to him. And I believe RM is the one who said it 1st. He owns it. What's new about that ?

Who says there is anything new about that? Gruden told him he would blitz the crap out of him because he saw that Mallett couldn't handle it. He wouldn't say that about Peyton Manning or Tom Brady (who are both pure pocket passers) because he knows they would burn you if you did blitz them. If Mallett couldn't handle it in college, how do you think he will handle it in the pros? I know everyone is going to say that he did handle the blitz, but when Alabama started blitzing him in the second half of their game, he fell apart. He went 10 for 16 for 110 yards, 2 sacks and 2 interceptions. That is what pro defenses are going to do to him until, like you said, he can burn them when they come after him. I'm not saying that he will never be able to hurt teams that blitz him, I'm just saying I have my doubts, and I think Gruden does also. Look, I'm not totally against drafting Mallett, but I have serious concerns, plus I like Christian Ponder more. I think there are a lot less character concerns with Ponder, and he is much more athletic. I think he has a better chance of making a play when the designed play breaks down.

footsteps_falco
04-16-2011, 09:37 PM
i'd be siked if we draft him. obviously trading down is cool but lets just grab our guy. we have good enough personell. lets hit on our round 3-5 picks and go hard in FA. ponder will have marshall and bess, we will do our best to give him a run game and improve the o-line. he'll have our defense. i think he can win with this team. i think he can give chad a run for his money but i also think they can work well together.

Skree
04-17-2011, 12:35 PM
Who says there is anything new about that? Gruden told him he would blitz the crap out of him because he saw that Mallett couldn't handle it. He wouldn't say that about Peyton Manning or Tom Brady (who are both pure pocket passers) because he knows they would burn you if you did blitz them. If Mallett couldn't handle it in college, how do you think he will handle it in the pros? I know everyone is going to say that he did handle the blitz, but when Alabama started blitzing him in the second half of their game, he fell apart. He went 10 for 16 for 110 yards, 2 sacks and 2 interceptions. That is what pro defenses are going to do to him until, like you said, he can burn them when they come after him. I'm not saying that he will never be able to hurt teams that blitz him, I'm just saying I have my doubts, and I think Gruden does also. Look, I'm not totally against drafting Mallett, but I have serious concerns, plus I like Christian Ponder more. I think there are a lot less character concerns with Ponder, and he is much more athletic. I think he has a better chance of making a play when the designed play breaks down.Ok this is getting interesting.


Gruden told him he would blitz the crap out of him because he saw that Mallett couldn't handle it.Hmm.. I watched that same show and I don't remember hearing Gruden say "I'm going to blitz the crap out of you because you can't handle it." Didn't tape it and am recording next time it runs so I can listen for that again.


He wouldn't say that about Peyton Manning or Tom Brady (who are both pure pocket passers) because he knows they would burn you if you did blitz them. What have Brady or Manning got to do with Gruden and Mallett ?


If Mallett couldn't handle it in college, how do you think he will handle it in the pros?Proof ? Where exactly is your evidence that Mallett could not handle pressure in collage ? If you are correct I want to see it. I can see in this very forum a strong case (backed up by video evidence I can view with my own eyes) made that he in fact handles pressure pretty well.


I know everyone is going to say that he did handle the blitz, but when Alabama started blitzing him in the second half of their game, he fell apart. He went 10 for 16 for 110 yards, 2 sacks and 2 interceptions. So your evidence is based on 1 half of 1 game ? OK sounds thin but you can evaluate any way you want.


That is what pro defenses are going to do to him until, like you said, he can burn them when they come after him. I'm not saying that he will never be able to hurt teams that blitz him, I'm just saying I have my doubts, and I think Gruden does also.Actually from what I can read you are stating that based on 1 half of 1 game, that he in fact cannot handle pressure and that Gruden does in fact think that and that he said so.


Look, I'm not totally against drafting Mallett, but I have serious concerns, plus I like Christian Ponder more.What has Ponder got to do with Mallett ? You like Ponder, OK so why does that mean Mallett sucks ? Actually you are stating opinions as facts, weather you realize it or not, mixed and matched with statements of "concern".


I think there are a lot less character concerns with Ponder, and he is much more athletic. I think he has a better chance of making a play when the designed play breaks down.Both of those are perfectly valid "opinions". What has that got to do with Mallett's ability or inability to handle a blitz ?

nyfinzfan
04-17-2011, 12:40 PM
Im warming to Ponder...

BlueFin
04-17-2011, 12:55 PM
How depressing is it to know that we passed on Drew Brees twice (in FA and draft) and passed on Aaron Rodgers in the draft? Are we really going to pass on another good QB?

And of course Matt Ryan, the madness has to stop. I really can't believe anyone thinks a guard (thats not a steve Hutchinson quality) is the right pick and one that will put this team over the top at 15.

We need a playmaker at QB.

rickd13
04-17-2011, 11:28 PM
Ok this is getting interesting.

Hmm.. I watched that same show and I don't remember hearing Gruden say "I'm going to blitz the crap out of you because you can't handle it." Didn't tape it and am recording next time it runs so I can listen for that again.

What have Brady or Manning got to do with Gruden and Mallett ?

Proof ? Where exactly is your evidence that Mallett could not handle pressure in collage ? If you are correct I want to see it. I can see in this very forum a strong case (backed up by video evidence I can view with my own eyes) made that he in fact handles pressure pretty well.

So your evidence is based on 1 half of 1 game ? OK sounds thin but you can evaluate any way you want.

Actually from what I can read you are stating that based on 1 half of 1 game, that he in fact cannot handle pressure and that Gruden does in fact think that and that he said so.

What has Ponder got to do with Mallett ? You like Ponder, OK so why does that mean Mallett sucks ? Actually you are stating opinions as facts, weather you realize it or not, mixed and matched with statements of "concern".

Both of those are perfectly valid "opinions". What has that got to do with Mallett's ability or inability to handle a blitz ?


Why else would Gruden say he would blitz the crap out of him if he didn't think he could handle it? Would you blitz the crap out of a guy you knew was going to burn you if you did blitz him? I brought up Brady and Manning because you said that Gruden would say he was going to blitz the crap out of any pure pocket passer and I used those two as examples of two pocket passers I'm sure he wouldn't say that about because he knows they would torch the blitz more times than not. I only stated that I liked Ponder better, and I have NEVER said that Mallett sucked. I just have more doubts about Mallett than I do about Ponder. I used the Alabama game as example because that is the type of defense he is going to see week in and week out until he can prove he can beat it on a consistent basis. The only difference is, the defenses he will be facing in the NFL will be more complicated and more talented than Alabama's.
Don't get so defensive. I didn't say I hate Mallett. I see all of the great things he can do with his arm. I could live with Miami making him their first round pick. I would hope that all of the talent he does possess would come to fruition and he would lead the Dolphins to the Super Bowl.

Skree
04-18-2011, 10:29 AM
Why else would Gruden say he would blitz the crap out of him if he didn't think he could handle it? Would you blitz the crap out of a guy you knew was going to burn you if you did blitz him? I brought up Brady and Manning because you said that Gruden would say he was going to blitz the crap out of any pure pocket passer and I used those two as examples of two pocket passers I'm sure he wouldn't say that about because he knows they would torch the blitz more times than not. I only stated that I liked Ponder better, and I have NEVER said that Mallett sucked. I just have more doubts about Mallett than I do about Ponder. I used the Alabama game as example because that is the type of defense he is going to see week in and week out until he can prove he can beat it on a consistent basis. The only difference is, the defenses he will be facing in the NFL will be more complicated and more talented than Alabama's.
Don't get so defensive. I didn't say I hate Mallett. I see all of the great things he can do with his arm. I could live with Miami making him their first round pick. I would hope that all of the talent he does possess would come to fruition and he would lead the Dolphins to the Super Bowl.When called out about what Gruden actually said, ignore it. Got it.

Your opinions about what someone else thinks are facts to be defended. Got it.

You are going to call something a concern in 1 post after stating it as fact in another, then claim to have just been "concerned" all along. Got it.

When asked for evidence you talk about 1/2 of 1 game. When called out about that thin reasoning you restate it and defend it. Got it.

Pretty much, got it.

Done

hooshoops
04-18-2011, 10:44 AM
so skree you think gruden said he would blitz the crap out of mallett because he thought he could handle the blitz so well??? doubt that buddy...i think it had more to do with gruden knowing that malletts gonna be pretty much a stationary target in the pocket bringing pressure to not give him time to set his feet and make throws cause i think everyone knows if you give mallett time he'll torch your ***...but i also think it has to do with grudens film study and his feel that mallett in his eyes didn't identify or check to proper things pre snap highlighting 3 examples on tape...and until he shows in the pros that he can handle these things he's gonna see a ton of exotic blitz pressure

that was my read...and its what i would do also...blitz the **** out of him til he proved me wrong...

i also wonder if because mallett in my eyes is all about protection as in keeping him upright if at the pro level you will have to compromise some of the things you want to do on offense ie keep extra guys in despite certain downs and distances to maintain a clean pocket for him...although i admit on this at least i am just thinking out loud...more pondering it than anything else

Aqua and Orange
04-18-2011, 10:44 AM
Ireland's free agency and draft history, Sparano's coaching and defense of Dan Henning, Ross' failures with trying to get Jim Harbaugh and then retaining his staff...It's fair to say that the fan appreciation of how well the Dolphins are doing is at an all time low.

...but just wait until they pass on a QB yet again. Hoo boy. It will be bedlam. If this team knew what was good for it and actually wanted to create buzz and fill the seats, it would do everything possible to find a QB that can create hope for this beleaguered franchise.

rickd13
04-18-2011, 04:13 PM
When called out about what Gruden actually said, ignore it. Got it.

Your opinions about what someone else thinks are facts to be defended. Got it.

You are going to call something a concern in 1 post after stating it as fact in another, then claim to have just been "concerned" all along. Got it.

When asked for evidence you talk about 1/2 of 1 game. When called out about that thin reasoning you restate it and defend it. Got it.

Pretty much, got it.

Done


Have you ever heard of the word infer? No, Gruden did not come right out and say "You can't handle the blitz", he inferred it. Why else would he tell him he was going to blitz the crap out of him ? If you can't get that trough your thick skull than I don't know what to tell you. Got it. Good.

zach8111
04-18-2011, 04:23 PM
ponder is too short for the nfl. those guys always struggle at the next level.

he's not drew brees coming out of purdue and brees is the size exeption

ponders mobility makes up for his lack of height (6'2'')...