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View Full Version : Draft Memory...Vontae Davis



ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 02:13 PM
When you hear a bunch of things about various players, I think it's worth taking a look at this. It really brings home what kind of environment we're in as far as what we hear from various people, and whether it's the truth or not the truth.

Here's something that was posted by Bob McGinn and Pete Dougherty, who are columnists in Wisconsin. They like to put together things that the scouts are telling them each draft, and they do a good job sourcing from a lot of different scouts from a lot of different teams.

http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=333250


2. VONTAE DAVIS Illinois 5-11 201 4.41 1
Third-year junior. "He's got as much talent probably as anybody in the draft. At any position," DeCosta said. "He just doesn't bring it all the time, which is a concern. He has the size. Explosive tackler. He can run, jump. He can do it all the time but his tape is uneven, and teams are trying to figure out why." His brother, Vernon, was the No. 6 pick in 2006. "When we talked to his brother, I liked Vernon a lot," one scout said. "I thought this kid was a real jerk. This guy seemed to have a big chip on his shoulder." According to another scout, "He just kind of does his own thing. He thinks he's better than what he is." Third-year junior with seven interceptions and 23 passes defended in 36 games (34 starts). "Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane," a third scout said. "Just like his brother out in San Francisco. He gets beat a lot. Just like his brother, tested out of the gym." Managed to score 33 on the Wonderlic (Vernon had 20), leaving some scouts wondering how he did it. "It's a $1 million question," one said. Said another: "It is curious, but he did it at the combine and I don't know how you can cheat there. I will say this. All of his agent's (Todd France) clients scored extremely well."

All this...about a guy that has shown up to the Miami Dolphins...worked his TAIL off...said all the right things, and played like a beast. He's on his way to being one of the better #1 cornerbacks in this league.

You know what the ONLY thing anyone could ever isolate on Vontae Davis was? The ONE incident someone could point to in a concrete way? The fact that Ron Zook kicked Vonate Davis out of ONE practice, because he thought he was goofing off. That's it. But Ron Zook went to bat heavily for him.

Does that sound like anyone else in this Draft?

There are other things that stick out. It can be kind of a lesson to take with you in terms of being so fanatical about what the scouts are saying about a guy...sometimes, it's just BS.


3. JOSH FREEMAN Kansas State 6-5 1/2 250 4.95 1-2
Became the starter five games into his freshman season and finished 14-18 overall. “He’s not a Donovan McNabb or a Daunte Culpepper, but if you’re looking for a quarterback to groom I would say this is the guy,” St. Louis VP Tony Softli said. “He’s got the size, the arm strength, touch. He can run with the ball. Very articulate and very smart (27 on the Wonderlic).” Operated a spread shotgun offense with marginal effectiveness, finishing with a passer rating of 81.0. Passed for 8,078 yards, breaking Lynn Dickey’s school record of 6,208. “You can’t pull any tape out and say you feel good about how that guy plays,” one scout said. “He’s bad. Raw talent but he has no clue. He has no vision. Very inaccurate. Their offense was one of the most inept I’ve seen. Him trying to run it, it was hard to watch.” His father, Ron, played in the United States Football League. Grew up in Kansas City. “He’s raw with footwork and release points,” another scout said. “Very inconsistent accuracy. He’s got some underachiever in him. Even though he’s smart enough he’s got some laziness about him.”

tylerdolphin
04-12-2011, 02:23 PM
Being someone that doesnt really follow draft prospects a lot, I remember being pretty concerned about Vontae after we picked him and I read about him. A lot of writers made him sound like a real dickwad me-first player. Hes been a very pleasant surprise in that area.

Fintastic2124
04-12-2011, 02:25 PM
This is exactly why I don't get all the negative news about Mallet. It happens to 50% of the draft prospects. This is why we take a chance on him.

TedSlimmJr
04-12-2011, 02:29 PM
You can't pay attention to everything people say about some of these kids. Some of it is legitimate, some of it isn't. Some of it is legitimate, and the kid just ends up maturing and doing a 180 in terms of his attitude... but not always.

Sometimes as a coach, you have to break these kids down and build them back up, the one's with a sense of entitlement. If there's one really positive thing Mike Singletary was able to accomplish in Frisco, it's breaking Vernon Davis down and getting him to become more of a team player.

I remember people just last year stomping their foot and jumping up and down in an attempt to convince others that all the red flags and character issues around Dez Bryant were either overblown, false, or misinterpreted. I didn't think that was the case... I've heard his own teammate, Kendall Hunter, talk about how Bryant used to show up for practice drunk, and how the staff had to provide handlers for him just to make sure the guy was where he was supposed to be, and when he was supposed to be there...

Money has a tendancy to change people whether they want to or not.. If these kids don't have a solid foundation, or at least someone to have as a mentor in their life, there's going to be trouble. Not if, but when.

The fact is, a lot of these kids just don't have that.

hooshoops
04-12-2011, 02:34 PM
that's still not changing my take on nick fairley...

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 02:41 PM
I think that Dez Bryant is actually a solid example of why you have to view this stuff within a context.

We NOW have some reasons to believe that the "whispers" out there about Dez were true. Not just because he fell pretty far in the Draft which gives you an idea of what the teams actually found, but he's doing some questionable things in Dallas.

But answer me this. Does Dallas regret drafting him? Because let me tell you, all he's done for them is play football, produce yards and touchdowns, and help win games.

So this is the PRIME example of why some of this stuff can be highly overblown. The Cowboys stepped on the landmine that everyone was worried about. They took a chance that Dez Bryant's issues were overdone and it turns out, it wasn't all smoke and mirrors. And what have they gotten out of it? Yards. Touchdowns. Victories. They've yet to lose a game because Dez Bryant is a dildo. They've yet to lose money because Dez Bryant is bad with his own money.

So even in the worst case scenario, the character stuff being TRUE...the talent still reigns. They could get rid of Dez Bryant some time within the next two years, and they'll still have gotten bang for their buck because Dez Bryant is a productive, game-impacting football player.

So if you've got a guy like a Ryan Mallett, where you're not even sure if he's a bad guy or not a bad guy, and there isn't nearly as much there IMO as there was with Dez Bryant...how seriously are you supposed to take that risk? Even if the character thing does blow up in your face and Ryan Mallett is the guy people fear he really was at Arkansas...if he has the talent that plays on Sundays, nobody's going to care. Not even the players in the huddle. Just ask some Tennessee players who still want Vince Young to play for them, because they think he's a winner. Or ask some Pittsburgh players about Ben Roethlisberger. They don't have to like the guy to win with him.

ChambersWI
04-12-2011, 03:10 PM
I do like that site you posted CK. I remember a couple years ago how a bunch of scouts hated Vernon Gholston, feeling he just didn't give a damn about football.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 03:17 PM
I do like that site you posted CK. I remember a couple years ago how a bunch of scouts hated Vernon Gholston, feeling he just didn't give a damn about football.

Actually on the contrary, I got access once to actual psych reports that the Giants used, drawn up by a paid service they have. They gave Gholston an excellent score, and Davone Bess a terrible one. They thought Gholston was very self-motivated and would be a driven football player.

beanh8er
04-12-2011, 03:20 PM
Actually on the contrary, I got access once to actual psych reports that the Giants used, drawn up by a paid service they have. They gave Gholston an excellent score, and Davone Bess a terrible one. They thought Gholston was very self-motivated and would be a driven football player.

That was right on the money apparently. Are they still in business?

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 03:32 PM
Yeah as far as I know they're still doing psych evals for the Giants.

It just highlights how even though people take this character stuff for a MORE exact science than the talent stuff, in actuality it is a much, much, much, much LESS exact science.

Tunaphish429
04-12-2011, 03:40 PM
Its hard to judge someone else's perception of someone else..

It just sounds dumb..I try and go into things with an open mind..All the things that these scouts are saying about Vontae could have been spot on..But he has not been a problem child for us at all..Not saying he is a great player..But he has been worthy of his pick in the draft thus far. I can do without the tackling lapses he had last year that led to some big plays.. He still has not lived up to his potenial yet..

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 03:56 PM
Its hard to judge someone else's perception of someone else..

It just sounds dumb..I try and go into things with an open mind..All the things that these scouts are saying about Vontae could have been spot on..But he has not been a problem child for us at all..Not saying he is a great player..But he has been worthy of his pick in the draft thus far. I can do without the tackling lapses he had last year that led to some big plays.. He still has not lived up to his potenial yet..

It's just to point out that if you're thinking Player X is bad news because you've heard of some scouts that don't like him, think he's a "jerk", think he cheated on the wonderlic, heck I remember a solid rumor at the time that Vontae Davis failed his drug test at the Combine which wasn't true...a lot of arguments between media, fans, draftniks, etc...can be made on just plain bogus info.

Tunaphish429
04-12-2011, 04:06 PM
It's just to point out that if you're thinking Player X is bad news because you've heard of some scouts that don't like him, think he's a "jerk", think he cheated on the wonderlic, heck I remember a solid rumor at the time that Vontae Davis failed his drug test at the Combine which wasn't true...a lot of arguments between media, fans, draftniks, etc...can be made on just plain bogus info.

Def, I understand what the point was..But who is say that any of these orginal scouts were wrong about him? Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane? I def can see that as of right now..Its not like Vontae has blown his doubters out of the water..He has not been a headache and has made some spectaular plays..But has also made some really dumb ones..and you can also question his effort at time.....

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 04:15 PM
Def, I understand what the point was..But who is say that any of these orginal scouts were wrong about him? Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane? I def can see that as of right now..Its not like Vontae has blown his doubters out of the water..He has not been a headache and has made some spectaular plays..But has also made some really dumb ones..and you can also question his effort at time.....

What's the opposite of right? Wrong? They were wrong. The guy that said Vontae Davis is a jerk? He was wrong. The guy that said Vontae Davis looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane? He was wrong.

I'm sorry if you don't see it that way, but that's just the truth.

dolfan_101
04-12-2011, 04:26 PM
I always love hearing Slimms and Ck's POV.
:lol: @ calling Dez a dildo btw

ChambersWI
04-12-2011, 04:31 PM
Actually on the contrary, I got access once to actual psych reports that the Giants used, drawn up by a paid service they have. They gave Gholston an excellent score, and Davone Bess a terrible one. They thought Gholston was very self-motivated and would be a driven football player.

maybe it's a different site. I remember reading through a bunch of different scouting reports that year, and they had a lot of different views. With Gholston the one guy said he felt he should go undrafted because he had no desire to get better. That the physical attributes are there, but nothing else was. BUT others felt he was going to be the best player in the draft.

I don't remember Jake getting many bad reviews. There were those that felt he'd struggle with NFL speed rushers, but others said he proved he could hang against speed rushers in college.

Tunaphish429
04-12-2011, 04:43 PM
What's the opposite of right? Wrong? They were wrong. The guy that said Vontae Davis is a jerk? He was wrong. The guy that said Vontae Davis looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane? He was wrong.

I'm sorry if you don't see it that way, but that's just the truth.

I dont see how that is the truth? Was he worth the #23 pick so far? Yes I agree he is..But he didnt exactly light it up last year..Granted teams threw away from his side..but When teams went to his side he missed alot of tackles..Not against Running backs..against Wr's.. Some of them were right..some of them were wrong..Maybe vontae is a jerk..I never met the guy...I can say he is a good football player who can get better...and should get better...But the scout who said looks like Tarzan plays like Jane? They maybe right.. The guy who said he has all the talent but does not bring it all the time..He was right too...Davis has had lapses.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 04:48 PM
There were definitely a lot of people that said Jake Long would only be a Right Tackle in the NFL. But yeah nobody could find anything else wrong with him.

One thing that strikes me is how much hindsight and everything plays with our minds. You know as I read thru all that stuff on Big Blue Interactive, I'm seeing TONS of scouts complaining about that 2009 Draft. All the QBs suck, they all have warts. The only guy in the Draft that doesn't have warts is Aaron Curry. The rest of the players everyone across all teams seem to disagree about. In fact I even saw one scout say this was the most unique draft he's seen in 20 years because of those factors.

It's like....I don't know the word for it. Comical? Ironic? Familiar? Fast forward to today, nobody's ever seen a QB draft like this before with so many guys with so many imperfections being highly rated. This draft is flawed, etc.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 04:51 PM
I dont see how that is the truth? Was he worth the #23 pick so far? Yes I agree he is..But he didnt exactly light it up last year..Granted teams threw away from his side..but When teams went to his side he missed alot of tackles..Not against Running backs..against Wr's.. Some of them were right..some of them were wrong..Maybe vontae is a jerk..I never met the guy...I can say he is a good football player who can get better...and should get better...But the scout who said looks like Tarzan plays like Jane? They maybe right.. The guy who said he has all the talent but does not bring it all the time..He was right too...Davis has had lapses.

You're missing the point. You're totally disregarding the specific criticisms and choosing instead to just gloss over everything those guys said and replace with the word "criticism" as if they were just saying they don't buy Vontae Davis.

Details. Don't discard details. They're important. The guy that said Vontae Davis is a jerk. He was WRONG. You can say that. Vontae Davis is not a jerk. He's not been a jerk. He's been a nice guy. All he does is say the right things all the time, work hard and play hard. The guy that said Vontae Davis "looks like tarzan and plays like jane" was WRONG. You can say that for sure. Vontae Davis is an extremely physical cornerback, one of the most physical cornerbacks in the league.

RockyMtnPhinfan
04-12-2011, 04:57 PM
Sounds like a case of "too many damn cooks in the kitchen"

But, i suppose that makes it exciting to see who shines through all the BS and who falls prey to it.........

Vontae closes in on those bubble routes and WR screens like a freakin missile. Totally worth #23 and only going to get better. NOW if they had said "looks like Tarzan, speaks like Jane" maybe i could get a good snicker out of that line.

Tunaphish429
04-12-2011, 04:59 PM
You're missing the point. You're totally disregarding the specific criticisms and choosing instead to just gloss over everything those guys said and replace with the word "criticism" as if they were just saying they don't buy Vontae Davis.

Details. Don't discard details. They're important. The guy that said Vontae Davis is a jerk. He was WRONG. You can say that. Vontae Davis is not a jerk. He's not been a jerk. He's been a nice guy. All he does is say the right things all the time, work hard and play hard. The guy that said Vontae Davis "looks like tarzan and plays like jane" was WRONG. You can say that for sure. Vontae Davis is an extremely physical cornerback, one of the most physical cornerbacks in the league.

I dont think they were wrong tho..Vontae missed alot of tackles last year..Alot. I dont know the exact number....IMO all miami did last year was play bend but dont break d..Vontae was not put in alot of poor spots..Most of the time Vontae was 5 Yards off the WR..He wasnt playing press nearly the amount of times that he did the year before...He has all the ability in the world..But he has his lapses too. Just because Vontae Davis says all the right things when a camera is in his face does not mean anything..To me he seems like a nice guy..I agree with you there...But how the hell would I know? If you put into a perspective of saying.."this guy is a jerk, He will not take to coaching" well then I have a problem..

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 05:04 PM
I dont think they were wrong tho..Vontae missed alot of tackles last year..Alot. I dont know the exact number....IMO all miami did last year was play bend but dont break d..Vontae was not put in alot of poor spots..Most of the time Vontae was 5 Yards off the WR..He wasnt playing press nearly the amount of times that he did the year before...He has all the ability in the world..But he has his lapses too. Just because Vontae Davis says all the right things when a camera is in his face does not mean anything..To me he seems like a nice guy..I agree with you there...But how the hell would I know? If you put into a perspective of saying.."this guy is a jerk, He will not take to coaching" well then I have a problem..

Again. You're not addressing the specific things being brought up. You're opting for this general, vague, Vontae Davis is not a great player yet thing. That's not germane to this discussion. The guy questions how tough Vontae Davis plays football. ANYONE should be able to watch Vontae Davis play football, look at the statement "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" and just...well I don't know the appropriate response...laugh until you die of asphyxiation?

Fin Thirteen
04-12-2011, 05:11 PM
So, what you're saying is we should draft Jake Locker.

Mr. Magoo
04-12-2011, 05:12 PM
Actually on the contrary, I got access once to actual psych reports that the Giants used, drawn up by a paid service they have. They gave Gholston an excellent score, and Davone Bess a terrible one. They thought Gholston was very self-motivated and would be a driven football player.

Yeah, I remember I found a few of them and posted them on here last year. Here's the link to the thread:

http://www.finheaven.com/forums/showthread.php?271730-Tim-Tebow-scores-below-average-on-NFL-s-Wonderlic-test

Sadly, they took the links down a while ago.

TedSlimmJr
04-12-2011, 06:14 PM
I think that Dez Bryant is actually a solid example of why you have to view this stuff within a context.

We NOW have some reasons to believe that the "whispers" out there about Dez were true. Not just because he fell pretty far in the Draft which gives you an idea of what the teams actually found, but he's doing some questionable things in Dallas.

But answer me this. Does Dallas regret drafting him? Because let me tell you, all he's done for them is play football, produce yards and touchdowns, and help win games.

So this is the PRIME example of why some of this stuff can be highly overblown. The Cowboys stepped on the landmine that everyone was worried about. They took a chance that Dez Bryant's issues were overdone and it turns out, it wasn't all smoke and mirrors. And what have they gotten out of it? Yards. Touchdowns. Victories. They've yet to lose a game because Dez Bryant is a dildo. They've yet to lose money because Dez Bryant is bad with his own money.

So even in the worst case scenario, the character stuff being TRUE...the talent still reigns. They could get rid of Dez Bryant some time within the next two years, and they'll still have gotten bang for their buck because Dez Bryant is a productive, game-impacting football player.

So if you've got a guy like a Ryan Mallett, where you're not even sure if he's a bad guy or not a bad guy, and there isn't nearly as much there IMO as there was with Dez Bryant...how seriously are you supposed to take that risk? Even if the character thing does blow up in your face and Ryan Mallett is the guy people fear he really was at Arkansas...if he has the talent that plays on Sundays, nobody's going to care. Not even the players in the huddle. Just ask some Tennessee players who still want Vince Young to play for them, because they think he's a winner. Or ask some Pittsburgh players about Ben Roethlisberger. They don't have to like the guy to win with him.


Dez Bryant's talent was worth the risk where the Cowboys took him, but it wasn't worth the risk in the top 5-10 picks is the point. Dallas may not regret taking him YET, but don't assume for a second that they won't ever regret it. Believe me... he has the potential to be just as much of a problem as he does to be a solution.

I played in a golf tournament in Huntsville with John Stallworth about a year ago. Our foursome got on the subject of Roethlisberger and the Rooneys. He flat out told us that the Rooney family couldn't stand Ben Roethlisberger, and they wanted him out of Pittsburgh. He talked about how 90% of the fanbase don't even like Roethlisberger...

But it's hard to justify getting rid of a "franchise" quarterback who's winning Lombardi Trophies. Luckily for Ben, he was already winning superbowls before he became such a pain in the a**..

If some of these questionable quarterbacks, with a documented history of flat out bad decision making off the field and being a pain in the a** aren't lucky enough to start winning superbowls right off the bat BEFORE their off field behavior really has a chance to become an issue, they're not going to have the same length of rope Roethlisberger has with the Rooney's.... I promise you that.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 06:30 PM
Honestly I think Ben Roethlisberger was a dick long before that. He won a Super Bowl in his second year, but I damn well believe he'd already shown his @ss well before that. Do you remember how much groaning guys like Alen Faneca did when it looked like Ben Roethlisberger was going to have to start for them as a rookie? The guy has never been well thought of.

The problem with that logic is...what prevented Roethlisberger from winning those Super Bowls even though he carried all that baggage? What prevented him from winning? Nothing. He's a talented player, playing the most important position in the game, the position that if you play well you're going to win a lot of games. You don't win CHAMPIONSHIPS just because you have a good QB, I think we all know that. But you usually do win a lot of games and if you're a talented quarterback and you win a lot of games you have to go pret-ty dang far to get yourself out of favor. And I mean like, Vince Young far, threatening to kill yourself, having pretty much everyone on the team unanimously say you're not a leader or a hard worker, being so damn bad that your Head Coach says it's him or me.

Yeah, if you're that bad, you can be a winner like Vince Young is a winner, and if you don't simultaneously win a Super Bowl then you might get ousted. But notice...even Vince Young is about to receive a (first) second chance. If he keeps winning games, how many of those second chances will he get before he's done? And who is to say that after the Draft, the Titans have not been able to find themselves a quarterback, and they come out with some line of BS saying they were hoping Vince Young would show some maturity in how he handles this whole thing and they're now comfortable with the knowledge that he has...welcoming him back with open arms.

That's the NFL.

TedSlimmJr
04-12-2011, 06:48 PM
Roethlisberger got lucky that a motorcycle wreck didn't "prevent" him from being able to walk, much less play quarterback. Ben Roethlisberger was LUCKY, CKParrothead.

He was in a situation as a 2nd year quarterback where Jerome Bettis and a dominant ground game, along with Dick Lebeau and stingy defense, was able to carry him to a superbowl.

If you put Ben Roethlisberger on a team like... the Atlanta Falcons for example, or the Arizona Cardinals, I guarantee you he wouldn't have any Lombardi Trophies... and his mistakes would be magnified to a much more significant degree. Just like they were anyway against the Packers in the superbowl just a few months ago.

I realize that you think you can win with Charles Manson or Osama Bin Laden at quarterback in the NFL if he's talented enough just based on Ben Roethlisberger (who's the exception) and Mike Vick (who hasn't won a damn thing)... but that's not the case.

Vince Young isn't a winner, Chris Johnson is a winner. Jeff Fisher won a lot more with a guy like Steve McNair at quarterback than he did, or was ever going to win with Vince Young.

It's all going to come out in the wash in the end regardless, and when you strip it all down and you're left with an imbecile as your "franchise" quarterback... whether it's a Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Mike Vick, or Ben Roethlisberger... you're going to end up in a very familiar place.

That's the NFL.

ChambersWI
04-12-2011, 07:05 PM
Having family in Pittsburgh, going there almost every year, and seeing how players act, I can confirm that Big Ben is not very well liked by much of the city. Hell half the bars downtown told him he was not welcome back because of how he treated the owners and other customers. You got to hope he can change his act even a little bit, but the rumors out of Pittsburgh were that the Rooneys seriously considered taking Tim Tebow to get a better character guy to be the team leader.

Leinart I feel could've been good had he 1.Embraced Arizona (reports have come out that he bitched and moaned for a long time about being drafted by them) and 2. Stopped partying so much (he never gave up his King of LA status)

VY is another guy that could've been good had he surrounded himself with better people, wasn't so spoiled his whole life, and had a good work ethic.

Hell what about Jay Cutler? How he acted to get out of Denver, and his lack of toughness have some Chicago fans wanting Caleb Hannie to be the QB.

beanh8er
04-12-2011, 07:16 PM
Just to dispel the Vontae is a jerk notion. The guy just spent a month in Rwanda(maybe some African country) giving out hearing AIDS to whoever needed them.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 11:18 PM
Just to dispel the Vontae is a jerk notion. The guy just spent a month in Rwanda(maybe some African country) giving out hearing AIDS to whoever needed them.

Man, what a jerk. :)

hooshoops
04-12-2011, 11:21 PM
Dez Bryant's talent was worth the risk where the Cowboys took him, but it wasn't worth the risk in the top 5-10 picks is the point. Dallas may not regret taking him YET, but don't assume for a second that they won't ever regret it. Believe me... he has the potential to be just as much of a problem as he does to be a solution.

I played in a golf tournament in Huntsville with John Stallworth about a year ago. Our foursome got on the subject of Roethlisberger and the Rooneys. He flat out told us that the Rooney family couldn't stand Ben Roethlisberger, and they wanted him out of Pittsburgh. He talked about how 90% of the fanbase don't even like Roethlisberger...

But it's hard to justify getting rid of a "franchise" quarterback who's winning Lombardi Trophies. Luckily for Ben, he was already winning superbowls before he became such a pain in the a**..

If some of these questionable quarterbacks, with a documented history of flat out bad decision making off the field and being a pain in the a** aren't lucky enough to start winning superbowls right off the bat BEFORE their off field behavior really has a chance to become an issue, they're not going to have the same length of rope Roethlisberger has with the Rooney's.... I promise you that.

oh yes he was...

newlownorder
04-12-2011, 11:22 PM
Here's the thing, with Dez, you would find things com people around him that spoke poorly of him. I can't find that with Mallett. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but seems to be the difference between rumors and truth.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 11:22 PM
Roethlisberger got lucky that a motorcycle wreck didn't "prevent" him from being able to walk, much less play quarterback. Ben Roethlisberger was LUCKY, CKParrothead.

He was in a situation as a 2nd year quarterback where Jerome Bettis and a dominant ground game, along with Dick Lebeau and stingy defense, was able to carry him to a superbowl.

If you put Ben Roethlisberger on a team like... the Atlanta Falcons for example, or the Arizona Cardinals, I guarantee you he wouldn't have any Lombardi Trophies... and his mistakes would be magnified to a much more significant degree. Just like they were anyway against the Packers in the superbowl just a few months ago.

I realize that you think you can win with Charles Manson or Osama Bin Laden at quarterback in the NFL if he's talented enough just based on Ben Roethlisberger (who's the exception) and Mike Vick (who hasn't won a damn thing)... but that's not the case.

Vince Young isn't a winner, Chris Johnson is a winner. Jeff Fisher won a lot more with a guy like Steve McNair at quarterback than he did, or was ever going to win with Vince Young.

It's all going to come out in the wash in the end regardless, and when you strip it all down and you're left with an imbecile as your "franchise" quarterback... whether it's a Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Mike Vick, or Ben Roethlisberger... you're going to end up in a very familiar place.

That's the NFL.

And yet Brett Favre can go to 6 weeks of rehab to get over drug addiction, and never miss a beat in his Hall of Fame career. He can have team employees approach women for him so that he can try and cheat on his wife with them and show them pictures of his junk, and he's still a leader, a courageous hero of a quarterback?

Phil Rivers and Jay Cutler can show their @sses on the regular, but they're winners.

I'm not buying it. Way overblown. The NFL makes sure it's overblown. They'll keep your secrets, once you prove you can play on Sunday...until you out yourself by making everyone think you're about to commit suicide. And that's only setting up the storyline for the 2013 hit movie "Vince Young: Redemption Song".

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 11:28 PM
Here's the thing, with Dez, you would find things com people around him that spoke poorly of him. I can't find that with Mallett. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but seems to be the difference between rumors and truth.

You can find people around Mallett that will speak poorly of him. You can find people around anyone that will speak poorly of him. I never heard Kendall Hunter reveal the things he did about Dez Bryant before that Draft. Maybe he just kept quiet, I dunno. Mike Gundy and Zac Robinson went to bat for Dez...SORT of. Gundy just clarified that the lateness incident was one time, something like that. His defense of Dez was always very measured and usually came with a simultaneous insult making sure everyone knew Dez was a "knucklehead" or some such for a while. Zac Robinson's defense of Dez was a little measured as well.

D.J. Williams' defense of Ryan Mallett was not measured. It didn't seem like Ray Dominguez' was either. And Bobby Petrino's defense of him was not at all measured, it was very strong. Plus you see guys that Mallett has trained with like Torrey Smith going to bat for him, or Torii Hunter. Mike Hart went into this big defense of Mallett back at Michigan, saying he actually likes him a lot because he reminds him of himself, people mistake them both for arrogant or cocky but it's just confidence. That confidence made Hart a leader of that team. He believed the same confidence would make Mallett a leader on the team one day.

Fin_Frenzy_84
04-12-2011, 11:31 PM
I will tell you one thing... I was one of the few who wanted Vontae... When we got him in the first I ran outside and screamed so loud because I knew he was gonna be a superstar.... I was also very happy with the smith pick in the second... I loved that draft!

hooshoops
04-12-2011, 11:34 PM
when dez goes for 1200 yards and double digit tds all this off field stuff will be water under the bridge...a non factor

top 10 pick worthy??? you bet your ***

Lord Of Miami
04-13-2011, 04:12 AM
I remember the year Vontae came out and their was a certain draftnic on this site buying into all the BS about Vontae.Some scout said one of the draftable players coming out only cared about getting paid and wanted to know when he would get paid after the draft.

The draftnic from this site then just assumed the scout was talking about Vontae.... even thou the scout never said a name.I had read the same article that other draftnic had and knew the scout never gave a name so i asked the draftnic where he heard that info.....................3 drafts later that same draftnic still has yet to answer that question.

newlownorder
04-16-2011, 04:45 PM
Ck, who around Mallett said something publicly bad about him. Couldn't find anything.

ckparrothead
04-17-2011, 12:44 AM
Ck, who around Mallett said something publicly bad about him. Couldn't find anything.

I meant privately. I've not found anyone that will speak poorly of him publicly. But privately I wonder what a Greg Childs would say, or a Joe Adams.

CANDolphan
04-17-2011, 02:54 AM
I remember the year Vontae came out and their was a certain draftnic on this site buying into all the BS about Vontae.Some scout said one of the draftable players coming out only cared about getting paid and wanted to know when he would get paid after the draft.

The draftnic from this site then just assumed the scout was talking about Vontae.... even thou the scout never said a name.I had read the same article that other draftnic had and knew the scout never gave a name so i asked the draftnic where he heard that info.....................3 drafts later that same draftnic still has yet to answer that question.

Stop this crap. Say it or keep quiet.