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ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 05:54 PM
http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnists/hyde/blog/2011/04/_position_by_position_draft.html

Here you guys go. This time we talk about more than just quarterbacks. No, really.

Roonnette
04-12-2011, 06:35 PM
Great writeup again. I must say I agree with Rich on most. Surprised no mention of Brooks Reed at OLB. Courtney Upshaw just may go top 5 next year. I like Chekwa at FS so I don't know why he was included in CBs. Sleeper at CB Burney from NC inspite of straight line speed.

BlueFin
04-12-2011, 06:38 PM
Nice Job, It seems the Mallett love is building. What do the three of you think the chances are of Mallett getting drafted before 15?

tical
04-12-2011, 07:19 PM
Appreciate the work CK and the rest of the gang..although i must say i gained more respect for you the other day when you said "haterz gon hate" that was beautiful!

Kdawg954
04-12-2011, 08:16 PM
I always love this piece from you guys, gives us newbies of film watching to really get a look at what you see on prospects that you like and dislike. The fact that there is 3 opinions on each guy, and many of the opinions varying gives a great indiciation that even top rated analysts to this stuff can have disagreeing opinions.

Things that caught my attention:

Not a mention of Patrick Peterson, kind of suprised me that you guys prefer "The Prince" over Peterson and his elite measureables and potential. I like both guys regardless, just suprised a bit there was no mention.

Suprised about the "lack of love" for Robert Quinn, I understand him missing a year is a big reason why the top 5 talk is kind of wild . . . but turning back that 2009 tape this guy was as explosive as they come. He has the chance to become an elite pass rusher in this league and he can do it with his hand on the ground in a 4-3 or standing up in a 3-4.

Those are 3 really good guard prospects, and I'll throw in Hudson and Orlando Franklin in there as well.

Is Dareus THAT good in a great DT class, or is this DT class not AS good as originially advertised (still strong though).

Did you guys ever do a piece on Locker, or did you come to the conclusion it was too bad to bother with? I like him, I like him alot . . . is there concern that Miami could take him at 15? I know CK isn't a fan, is there any part of you guys that feel he can become a good/franchise QB?


Just some things that came to my mind, I really enjoyed the piece like usual. Thanks for the effort!

Conuficus
04-12-2011, 08:24 PM
For me the issue with Locker is going to be his footwork. You can alter it somewhat, but in the end like anything mechanical it could easily revert into his old issues. Locker has that big stride, and that typically means he will be inaccurate. The bigger the motion, the greater the chance for something to go wrong. I alwasy akin it to a hitter in baseball. Guys with a lot of motion and a big stride always face issues mechanically. There is just more than needs to be in perfect alignment for the pass to be accurate.

I like Ponder, people know that, and one reason is due to his footwork. I just love it. The guy is always balanced it seems to me. Short stride and he's accurate.

Donovan McNabb is another example of a guy with a big stride.

And yeah we don't always agree, thats part of the fun, you don't want to agree on everything. There are over 300 players to go through, no way we see everyone the same.

For me, picking Peterson would have been the safe pick. It's not that I don't like him, just didn't want to focus on the top guy etc. Plus I have a soft spot for Big Ten players. :wink2:

thejetssuck
04-12-2011, 08:47 PM
This is why I love Tuesdays so much!!! Great job guys!!

Kthurmus23
04-12-2011, 08:53 PM
Great job again guys, really appreciate the work you guys do.

Rocket2981
04-12-2011, 09:52 PM
This is some great stuff again, thanks guys!

hooshoops
04-12-2011, 09:53 PM
i couldn't disagree more with the robert quinn take...that kids got special pass rush edge qualities...best 4-3 pass rush end prospect in the draft...i do like aldon smith also though...just not as a 3-4 olb...stiff hipped straight line but a ton of upside

slow your roll ck with the revis talk with prince amukumara...good prospect really good feet but he doesn't play the ball in the air anywhere like revis

patrick peterson i can understand some of the talk...not the best in off man...dominant in press...maybe down the road moves to safety but this guys a more physical version of charles woodson...i'm convinced of it

bout time some more of you guys figured out demarco murray is garbage as a pro running back...only value that guy has is as a receiver out of the backfield...if he can stay off ir

akeem ayers justin houston...take your pick...their both overrated as hell

confused with the rodney hudson love now ck...right after the combine you were tellin me he put on too much weight and was sluggish as heck...awful combine drill#'s etc...

the best guard prospects are pouncey as a move player and watkins in line...schilling is garbage...struggles with strength...got ran over at the senior bowl...moffitts a limited athlete who looks terrible at center and average at guard imo...don't hate him but he's overrated if your talking by end of round 3

will rackley i agree doesn't look like much of an athlete i saw some sluggish looking feet at the combine but he can move cats when he has a straight line to the target...

kyle rudolphs the cream at te and dj williams makes a perfect hback

mark ingrams special...i can't say it enough

Conuficus
04-12-2011, 10:02 PM
Hoos, there are two things you don't do with regards to Oklahoma; draft a running back and or a corner. Not good ideas at either position just due to their scheme and the type of players they recruit for those positions.

hooshoops
04-12-2011, 10:14 PM
Hoos, there are two things you don't do with regards to Oklahoma; draft a running back and or a corner. Not good ideas at either position just due to their scheme and the type of players they recruit for those positions.

you draft a rb when the guys adrian peterson...you don't when the guys demarco murray...demarco murray sucks...he is an absolute product of that sooner offense...guy doesn't make people miss gets tackled by his shoe laces entirely too much and after every carry gets up dinged...BUST nfl pick if you think he's gonna run inside in the pros...

beanh8er
04-12-2011, 10:17 PM
Hoos, there are two things you don't do with regards to Oklahoma; draft a running back and or a corner. Not good ideas at either position just due to their scheme and the type of players they recruit for those positions.
Yea man. Like that one guy who came out a few years ago. Think it's Peterson or something close to that? That Roy Williams guy is pretty bad as well.

Seriously though I realize they are the exception to the rule.

Gosh darn it hoos.

hooshoops
04-12-2011, 10:21 PM
Yea man. Like that one guy who came out a few years ago. Think it's Peterson or something close to that? That Roy Williams guy is pretty bad as well.

Seriously though I realize they are the exception to the rule.

Gosh darn it hoos.

its hoops and gosh darn what???

beanh8er
04-12-2011, 10:25 PM
its hoops and gosh darn what???
I'm calling you hoos from now on. You beat me being a sarcastic ******* by 3 minutes.

Dogbone34
04-12-2011, 10:50 PM
future dolphins:

ryan mallet
stevan ridley
dominique johnson
ryan pugh
steve schilling
mike mohammed
taiwan jones

j-off-her-doll
04-12-2011, 11:12 PM
You didn't outright say it, but you might as well have: Aldon Smith is a better pass rusher than Robert Quinn. I agree.

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 11:40 PM
i couldn't disagree more with the robert quinn take...that kids got special pass rush edge qualities...best 4-3 pass rush end prospect in the draft...

Seen too much tape of Quinn getting beat up by the likes of lowly draft prospect Willie Smith...and haven't seen enough tape of all the people he never got a chance to beat in 2010. I don't see any justification for that statement.


slow your roll ck with the revis talk with prince amukumara...good prospect really good feet but he doesn't play the ball in the air anywhere like revis

You may not think so. I certainly do. Excellent cornerback prospect. Physical like Revis. He plays the ball better in the air when he's not starting 5 steps behind because he peeked into the backfield against the run on a play-action or flea-flicker.


confused with the rodney hudson love now ck...right after the combine you were tellin me he put on too much weight and was sluggish as heck...awful combine drill#'s etc...

He had a terrible Combine. He went from potentially an "elite" guard prospect (or so people said), to perhaps the best or maybe just one of the best center prospects in a bad class. I'd say that's taking a hit. You're reading things into my choices that maybe aren't there. I actually like Eric Hagg a lot, for instance...but as a physical slot corner, a Benny Sapp type. But some teams are trying to make him a free safety and I think they're going to be disappointed with that. Similar to that, Rodney Hudson as "guy I like" amongst THIS center class...that's a pretty good fall from where many had him pre-Combine. And everything you need is in what I said. The quote I sent to Simon was, "Technique and discipline are more his strength than pure athleticism or physicality. Should double team a lot in the NFL as a Center." That sound flattering to you?

hooshoops
04-12-2011, 11:43 PM
no worries...i'll fly solo on robert quinn

ckparrothead
04-12-2011, 11:55 PM
There's definitely a point at which I'd take him, but he's being rated (or at least he used to be) a pretty good ways above that point. I dunno. Great football body but I'd prefer a great body of football work.

greasyObnoxious
04-13-2011, 08:51 AM
no worries...i'll fly solo on robert quinn

no, you're not. i'm sold

RockyMtnPhinfan
04-13-2011, 10:23 AM
I like to see my boys from the state of South Carolina getting some love!
Chris Culliver
Cortez Allen
Alshon Jeffrey

Awesome article.....good to see where you guys agree and disagree, thank you!

Housler or Williams at TE!!

TedSlimmJr
04-13-2011, 11:56 AM
Hoos, there are two things you don't do with regards to Oklahoma; draft a running back and or a corner. Not good ideas at either position just due to their scheme and the type of players they recruit for those positions.


That's a good point... but you'd also have to say that about Oklahoma quarterbacks in the Stoops era prior to Bradford. Even I wasn't sold on Bradford.. However, I made it clear that if Sam Bradford couldn't successfully transition to the NFL none of them ever would.

In fact, it's the same going back through the John Blake, Howard Schnellenber, Gary Gibbs eras... even all the way back to the Barry Switzer era. (Although at least Switzer's "quarterbacks" had a built in excuse).

Minnphin
04-13-2011, 12:45 PM
It seems pretty clear that all 3 of you are on a quarterback in the first round and all three of you want us to just take a guy at 15 as opposed to trading down. Is that correct? I'm in complete agreement, by the way. I'm wondering where your ideal spot to grab a runningback is and who that back would be. Do you take one in the 3rd and hope that DJ Williams is there in the 4th or vice versa? Will you guys be going into more detail on RB, TE, and WR in the next couple draft winds? As always, great work and thanks for your efforts!

Aqua and Orange
04-13-2011, 03:21 PM
Great writeup as usual Boom, CK and Rich.

Mostly, I'm glad to see you are in agreement with me on taking Mallett OR Ponder at 15 barring a good trade down opportunity. Both would be fantastic players to build a team around once they get their NFL legs under them.

Boomer
04-13-2011, 06:14 PM
future dolphins:

ryan mallet
stevan ridley
dominique johnson
ryan pugh
steve schilling
mike mohammed
taiwan jones


I've seen a lot worse suggestions than those. Mallett and Ridley are interesting gets.

Boomer
04-13-2011, 06:18 PM
It seems pretty clear that all 3 of you are on a quarterback in the first round and all three of you want us to just take a guy at 15 as opposed to trading down. Is that correct? I'm in complete agreement, by the way. I'm wondering where your ideal spot to grab a runningback is and who that back would be. Do you take one in the 3rd and hope that DJ Williams is there in the 4th or vice versa? Will you guys be going into more detail on RB, TE, and WR in the next couple draft winds? As always, great work and thanks for your efforts!

Frankly Minn, I change my mind every day. Every hour.

I personally don't think Miami can afford to miss on any of the first 4 picks. I will be AMAZED if they stay at 15. They need ONE wideout that can return kicks and be a deep threat. HUGE ask. Not many recievers can come in and do that. And it will have to be someone like a Gates or a Young or a Jernigan. Someone with electric pace who can stretch the field. Problem is they don't carry more than 4 WR's on game day. I think they need a TE who can press a LB down the seam. I think they need to add two backs, one an every down guy and one a real 3rd down threat. With that in mind, they could easily deal down and go:

1. Ingram
2. DJ Williams
3. Jernigan
4. Jacquizz Rodgers.

3 backs I wouldn't rule out are Shane Vereen, Bilal Powell and Ryan Williams. AND I wouldn't altogether rule out a deal down and down and out of the first round to accumulate more picks in the 2nd and 3rd round area where I suspect they feel the real value is.

Aqua and Orange
04-13-2011, 06:40 PM
I personally don't think Miami can afford to miss on any of the first 4 picks. I will be AMAZED if they stay at 15. .

I keep going back to the thought that part of the reason they are doing so much homework on Mallett is to even see if staying at 15 for a QB is a viable option, having had their mind set on trading down for so long.

Should he fall, I could see Pouncey as the trade down get in the early 20s, or possibly Ponder if Pouncey is gone. I think the safe money is on multiple trade downs, as you mentioned Boom.

ckparrothead
04-13-2011, 07:17 PM
I'm a little more constant on this one. Miami needs to take a gamble on a QB. I don't care what kind of daring trade machinations Miami might undertake, this Draft is not going to put a QB-less team over the top. Miami is not a fast rookie mid-round Tight End, fast and raw Wide Receiver, and/or a pair of rookie Running Backs away from contention.

Chad Henne looks to my eyes to be on a fast track to destruction. Defenses are catching up to him. He's not able to stay ahead of them, they're getting ahead of him instead. The one thing that possibly could have saved him would have been an offensive coordinator that runs a very wide open offense...but from what I've seen, that's not Daboll. I'm not saying he's a bad coordinator, I'm saying he's not different enough to make me think Chad Henne just got a lifeline.

In the mean time the players around Henne are on a short fuse. It's like a nagging injury, you think it's better and it feels better, you feel great walking around, and then when you run again it only takes a few strides before the twinge comes back. That's what it'll be like for guys like Brandon Marshall and Anthony Fasano, even guys like Brian Hartline, guys who just appeared to not be on board with Chad Henne by the end of it all. And that's not even talking about defensive players whom I believe unanimously do not think Henne is the guy. You look at how quick people like Kendall Langford were, how little excuse they needed, to get all misty eyed and hopeful because Tyler Thigpen looked like he might have given the team something they'd been lacking with Henne. They were positively giddy. That's a sign of a team that has given up on its quarterback.

This team gave up in Week 17. They were tired of everything. You can lay part of that on Chad Henne, I think. But you can also lay some of that at the feet of Tony Sparano and his "rise and grind, always behind" program. Either way, they were tired, hopeless, and didn't want to play football anymore. This is the same team. These are the same players. These are the same coaches. This is the same program. This is the same quarterback. What if that total clusterf-ck pathetic give-up campaign in Week 17 was a sign of things to come rather than a blip? What if after a mere 6 weeks of more "rise and grind, always behind"...always being involved in close games, losing half of them, never having much margin for error...the players feel that twinge come back, only this time instead of Week 17, it's Week 7?

Miami needs a shot of hope. They need to feel like something is different, like there's a future at stake. They SHOULD be talented enough to win as they are. You have Brandon Marshall, Davone Bess and Brian Hartline on your team at wide receiver, I don't buy ANY amount of rationale that says that WR is a mission critical position that's holding you back. You have an Anthony Fasano amongst your Tight Ends, I don't buy ANY amount of rationale that says that position is holding you back. Yeah, we could definitely use some more playmaking at the tailback position, but would it make that much of a difference? You're not as pitiful as we were on offense because you're missing a few minor role players.

I don't care if pick #15 is a quarterback or not. The first domino that needs to fall is at quarterback. If it's not Mallett or Ponder, then it had better be Palmer. Aside from those three I'm not sure I could buy on any other option. Maybe Hasselbeck. But I'd like to have Hasselbeck here to pair up with a Ponder, show him the ropes.

justdev7
04-13-2011, 10:14 PM
For me Kyle Rudolph is too much of a risk just because of the injury and where he'll be selected. He could end up being a solid TE but I think there are guys available later that are more explosive. I think Alshon Jefferey looks like a young TO. Greg Childs is also a favorite of mine (and not just because when he makes a big play you can say "Childs Please!!!").

Austin Tatious
04-13-2011, 10:42 PM
I'm a little more constant on this one. Miami needs to take a gamble on a QB. I don't care what kind of daring trade machinations Miami might undertake, this Draft is not going to put a QB-less team over the top. Miami is not a fast rookie mid-round Tight End, fast and raw Wide Receiver, and/or a pair of rookie Running Backs away from contention.

Chad Henne looks to my eyes to be on a fast track to destruction. Defenses are catching up to him. He's not able to stay ahead of them, they're getting ahead of him instead. The one thing that possibly could have saved him would have been an offensive coordinator that runs a very wide open offense...but from what I've seen, that's not Daboll. I'm not saying he's a bad coordinator, I'm saying he's not different enough to make me think Chad Henne just got a lifeline.

In the mean time the players around Henne are on a short fuse. It's like a nagging injury, you think it's better and it feels better, you feel great walking around, and then when you run again it only takes a few strides before the twinge comes back. That's what it'll be like for guys like Brandon Marshall and Anthony Fasano, even guys like Brian Hartline, guys who just appeared to not be on board with Chad Henne by the end of it all. And that's not even talking about defensive players whom I believe unanimously do not think Henne is the guy. You look at how quick people like Kendall Langford were, how little excuse they needed, to get all misty eyed and hopeful because Tyler Thigpen looked like he might have given the team something they'd been lacking with Henne. They were positively giddy. That's a sign of a team that has given up on its quarterback.

This team gave up in Week 17. They were tired of everything. You can lay part of that on Chad Henne, I think. But you can also lay some of that at the feet of Tony Sparano and his "rise and grind, always behind" program. Either way, they were tired, hopeless, and didn't want to play football anymore. This is the same team. These are the same players. These are the same coaches. This is the same program. This is the same quarterback. What if that total clusterf-ck pathetic give-up campaign in Week 17 was a sign of things to come rather than a blip? What if after a mere 6 weeks of more "rise and grind, always behind"...always being involved in close games, losing half of them, never having much margin for error...the players feel that twinge come back, only this time instead of Week 17, it's Week 7?

Miami needs a shot of hope. They need to feel like something is different, like there's a future at stake. They SHOULD be talented enough to win as they are. You have Brandon Marshall, Davone Bess and Brian Hartline on your team at wide receiver, I don't buy ANY amount of rationale that says that WR is a mission critical position that's holding you back. You have an Anthony Fasano amongst your Tight Ends, I don't buy ANY amount of rationale that says that position is holding you back. Yeah, we could definitely use some more playmaking at the tailback position, but would it make that much of a difference? You're not as pitiful as we were on offense because you're missing a few minor role players.

I don't care if pick #15 is a quarterback or not. The first domino that needs to fall is at quarterback. If it's not Mallett or Ponder, then it had better be Palmer. Aside from those three I'm not sure I could buy on any other option. Maybe Hasselbeck. But I'd like to have Hasselbeck here to pair up with a Ponder, show him the ropes.


Phenomenal post. That is EXACTLY how I feel.