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View Full Version : The case for drafting Florida State’s Christian Ponder



Skree
04-13-2011, 11:39 AM
As I've stated in another thread after reading this article I'm more convinced than ever about Ponder. Pass

1 concussion
1 upper arm injury (unspecified)
2 elbow surgeries (or is it 3 ? )
1 shoulder surgery

Did I miss anything ?

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2011/04/the-case-for-drafting-florida-state%E2%80%99s-christian-ponder.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sports%2FMiamiDolphinsweblog+%28Miami+Dolphins+|+Sun-Sentinel+Blogs%29 (http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2011/04/the-case-for-drafting-florida-state%E2%80%99s-christian-ponder.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sports%2FMiamiDolphinsweblog+%28Miami+Dolphins+%7C+Sun-Sentinel+Blogs%29)

Aqua and Orange
04-13-2011, 11:46 AM
As I've stated in another thread after reading this article I'm more convinced than ever about Ponder. Pass

1 concussion
1 upper arm injury (unspecified)
2 elbow surgeries (or is it 3 ? )
1 shoulder surgery

Did I miss anything ?

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2011/04/the-case-for-drafting-florida-state%E2%80%99s-christian-ponder.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sports%2FMiamiDolphinsweblog+%28Miami+Dolphins+|+Sun-Sentinel+Blogs%29 (http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2011/04/the-case-for-drafting-florida-state%E2%80%99s-christian-ponder.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sports%2FMiamiDolphinsweblog+%28Miami+Dolphins+%7C+Sun-Sentinel+Blogs%29)

You missed that his injury worries are over-inflated, he is healthy now, he is extremely intelligent, he is a great leader, he can make all of the NFL throws, there are several QBs who had injury worries who turned out well (like Aaron Rodgers), and basically all of his junior year tape....Besides that you nailed it.

If Mallett is gone, I'm all for Ponder in this draft.

spydertl79
04-13-2011, 11:48 AM
I just don't see him playing as carelessly in the NFL as he did in college. Don't get me wrong, I love that Ponder gave 110% on every play but in the NFL he will be coached to avoid contact.

ckparrothead
04-13-2011, 11:50 AM
He wrote a good piece and it agrees with a LOT of the things we laid out for Dave Hyde's blog in our Draft Winds segments. Honestly, our article for Dave was more forthcoming about the specific nature of the injuries, though he brings up great points. I'm a little surprised he did not go into the injuries a little more.

For instance that Clemson game in 2009 where Ponder threw 4 interceptions before separating his shoulder while tackling DeAndre McDaniels...he was playing that game with cracked ribs. I'm surprised Carter didn't mention that.

Also, from what we've heard from our sources, the upper arm injury he suffered against Oklahoma was just a bruise and not a particularly big deal, though painful. What was a big deal was the injury he suffered later against Boston College. Our sources say that the injury there was initially mis-diagnosed as bursitis, an inflammation of the bursa sac near the elbow. To treat bursitis you can either calm it down or you can undergo a bursectomy (removing the sac). If the latter, the bursa sac will grow back but won't be inflamed when it does. Ponder had a lot of inflammation and fluid build in the elbow so they did a bursectomy. The problem is, he didn't have bursitis. What he had was a little more rare, but not in any way serious, and that is torn fascial tissue near the elbow. The fascia is the thin layer of fibrous tissue that separates muscle from fat layers. The trauma to the fascial tissue was what kept causing fluid build in the elbow, along with pain, the inability to use it properly, etc. After the North Carolina game he had half a liter of fluid removed from his elbow. He should not have played in the Maryland or Florida games, but E.J. Manuel had suffered a hairline fracture in his wrist, so Ponder toughed it out. At some point he was correctly diagnosed with the torn fascial tissue, and treated properly, and that's when the elbow began healing.

The point to note is that the shoulder separation is the only serious injury among these injuries. That's the only one that can have far-reaching effects, depending on how much damage he did when he separated it. By the sound of it, his recovering far ahead of schedule suggests that his separation was not bad enough to carry a lot of collateral damage...so I doubt that's an issue going forward.

Andrew Carter brings up the right point though. The better part of these injuries were due to Ponder's rough and tumble style, but also due to an offense that saw him playing option football and carrying the ball a lot. Option football is dangerous for a QB. The point of the option is to read whether the defender is committing to you or committing to the pitch back. If he's committing to you, you draw him in as much as you can and then pitch the ball. But in the mean time, you get MURDERED, especially if you do a good job. The more you draw the defender in, the more effective the pitch will be in all likelihood. That sets up a helluva dangerous risk/reward scenario for the QB. And of course, even if the defender isn't committing to the QB, the QB keeps the ball, which guarantees he'll get hit later on the play. So, pick your poison. You're getting killed one way or another. At least if you're getting hit with the ball in your hands, you are able to protect yourself better.

Ponder won't be pitching option plays in the NFL. And he'll be forced to learn to slide. Not to mention, I been saying this a long time now, I see POCKET passers in college football taking FAR more abuse than I know the NFL allows their pocket passers to take. Far more.

So there's pretty good reason to believe the injury stuff will be a non-issue in the NFL. I think you have to evaluate Christian Ponder on the merits of his football skills.

ckparrothead
04-13-2011, 11:52 AM
As I've stated in another thread after reading this article I'm more convinced than ever about Ponder. Pass

1 concussion
1 upper arm injury (unspecified)
2 elbow surgeries (or is it 3 ? )
1 shoulder surgery

Did I miss anything ?

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2011/04/the-case-for-drafting-florida-state%E2%80%99s-christian-ponder.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sports%2FMiamiDolphinsweblog+%28Miami+Dolphins+|+Sun-Sentinel+Blogs%29 (http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2011/04/the-case-for-drafting-florida-state%E2%80%99s-christian-ponder.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sports%2FMiamiDolphinsweblog+%28Miami+Dolphins+%7C+Sun-Sentinel+Blogs%29)

I don't believe the concussion was serious. It's the kind you see a lot of players play through and not say anything.

But the one you missed was cracked ribs he played with against Clemson in 2009 which helped lead to that woeful 4 interception performance that ended with him separating his shoulder.

The only injury with potentially reaching implications would be the shoulder separation, but his early recovery from that points to him not having done a lot of damage to it.

Otherwise he had a bunch of little nagging injuries, including the elbow ones, that if diagnosed properly would not have been the problem that they were. If his elbow was diagnosed properly after the Boston College game I think he would have maybe missed two games.

hooshoops
04-13-2011, 12:07 PM
no way at #15...

TedSlimmJr
04-13-2011, 12:16 PM
You'd likely have hell getting me to pull the trigger on Christian Ponder at #15 if you were sitting at the table with me in the war room.

But if the draft were to fall a certain a way, and taking the option of a trade down off the table for hypothetical lack of a trading partner... it's a stout possibility that he'd be one of only two players that make sense.

I can either reach for Pouncey, or reach for Ponder... Pouncey is the guy I think makes the immediate better pro, safer pick, and goes on to be a quality offensive lineman. But I'm taking the quarterback... (after CK slides me the five $100 bills under the table)...

hooshoops
04-13-2011, 12:20 PM
i'm sorry but thats entirely too high...i'm getting a 2nd round pick back if i'm taking christian ponder...there's gonna be something sitting there at #15 that is more worth that pick than ponder and pouncey...

ckparrothead
04-13-2011, 12:20 PM
Five!!! I thought we agreed on three!

TedSlimmJr
04-13-2011, 12:26 PM
Five!!! I thought we agreed on three!

I'm going to use the extra two $100 dollar bills to help buy Ponder a state-of-the-art flak jacket...

greasyObnoxious
04-13-2011, 12:30 PM
Five!!! I thought we agreed on three!

hey, hookers are expensive on draft day haha

Kdawg954
04-13-2011, 12:32 PM
Wow . . . talk about getting a bad draft grade with that pick . . . not that it matters if he is killing on the field for us in the future . . . but that is a reach . . . a reach that may happen when it's all said and done.

Mel Kiper - "You're drafting 15th . . . I have Ponder ranked 41st . . . you don't reach for the 41st ranked player on the board when your drafting 15th . . . the Dolphins just don't understand how the draft works" :lol: . . . I still like Kiper though.

hooshoops
04-13-2011, 12:36 PM
Wow . . . talk about getting a bad draft grade with that pick . . . not that it matters if he is killing on the field for us in the future . . . but that is a reach . . . a reach that may happen when it's all said and done.

Mel Kiper - "You're drafting 15th . . . I have Ponder ranked 41st . . . you don't reach for the 41st ranked player on the board when your drafting 15th . . . the Dolphins just don't understand how the draft works" :lol: . . . I still like Kiper though.

kiper has mallett 71st ranked

hooshoops
04-13-2011, 12:37 PM
I'm going to use the extra two $100 dollar bills to help buy Ponder a state-of-the-art flak jacket...

how about sparing another $100 for my cremation after i off myself :lol:

Skree
04-13-2011, 12:42 PM
Just going by his on field play: I guess looking for a franchise QB I just don't see that 3-4 year starter that consistently leads his team to wins. I mean there are so many reasons why maybe it didn't happen, bad receivers, bad line, what I believe was a serious coaching mess at FSU, simple offense, injuries etc...

For a franchise QB I don't want the story "why not" I want the story "why so" someone was able to produce winning results in spite of.

The talk about Ponder reminds me so much of a talk about Pennington. Love Penny and do not want to build a franchise around that. I'd prefer someone that has the consistent ability to go out and light it up when needed. Just can't see that in Ponder.

BlueFin
04-13-2011, 12:54 PM
You missed that his injury worries are over-inflated, he is healthy now, he is extremely intelligent, he is a great leader, he can make all of the NFL throws, there are several QBs who had injury worries who turned out well (like Aaron Rodgers), and basically all of his junior year tape....Besides that you nailed it.

If Mallett is gone, I'm all for Ponder in this draft.

To be fair, they said that about Yatil Green as well, injury prone is injury prone. It's hard to deny that.

DKphin
04-13-2011, 03:49 PM
I'm going to use the extra two $100 dollar bills to help buy Ponder a state-of-the-art flak jacket...:lol:

DKphin
04-13-2011, 03:53 PM
To be fair, they said that about Yatil Green as well, injury prone is injury prone. It's hard to deny that.
Thanks, I wrote earlier that the similarities to what happen to Green is what gives me pause. I know that each player is an individual and what happens to one does not necessarily mean it will happen to another. But how does that quote go, "Those who do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them."

BobDole
04-13-2011, 03:55 PM
i'll check myself into the nearest loony bin if we pick ponder at 15. wouldn't touch him until mid/late 2nd round if it was up to me. WAY too many question marks surrounding him. the arm strength (or lack thereof) is one thing - but throw in the injuries ... pffffffft.

hooshoops
04-13-2011, 04:33 PM
I'm going to use the extra two $100 dollar bills to help buy Ponder a state-of-the-art flak jacket...

well played my friend...well played

Spesh
04-13-2011, 05:13 PM
The knock on Ponder is that he’s injury prone but that goes both ways. With all but one exception – when he suffered the upper-arm injury at Oklahoma – his injuries have basically been self-inflicted because of his playing style. In 2008 he was banged up toward the end of the season because he absorbed so much contact when he’d escape the pocket and run. Instead of sliding he’d risk his body in hopes of gaining an extra yard or two. In ’09 he suffered the separated shoulder while attempting to tackle McDaniel – purely a frustration play after Ponder had thrown a poor pass. And again last season, some of Ponder’s nagging arm troubles were a result of his reluctance to avoid contact.


Best part of the article. So many rumors and innuendo surrounding the quarterbacks this year, and yet Ponder's might be the easiest the shift through...if your willing.

Aqua and Orange
04-13-2011, 06:54 PM
To be fair, they said that about Yatil Green as well, injury prone is injury prone. It's hard to deny that.

That is true, but nearly every player has injuries from high school through college (especially if it's in a Division 1 school). The trick is being able to anticipate what is healing/healed, as in the case of Drew Brees, and be able to separate the talent from the concern.

Ponder's athleticism, his injuries, his mental makeup, his leadership...it's eerily similar to Drew Brees in a lot of ways. I'm not saying he will come close to Brees by any stretch, but I think discounting someone because they had a big injury or two without homework would be a recipe for disaster.

Skree
04-14-2011, 11:32 AM
OK CK Show me.

I wanna see what you see in Ponder, so when can we expect Ponder to get the UD video breakdown treatment ? :D

Spesh
04-14-2011, 12:34 PM
OK CK Show me.

I wanna see what you see in Ponder, so when can we expect Ponder to get the UD video breakdown treatment ? :D

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnists/hyde/blog/2011/03/draft_winds_the_christian_pond.html

March 22

Skree
04-15-2011, 09:54 AM
http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnists/hyde/blog/2011/03/draft_winds_the_christian_pond.html

March 22Thanks. That's embarrassing. Can't believe I missed it.