PDA

View Full Version : Marino and Mallett Comparison



slider732
04-16-2011, 03:43 PM
Just throwing this out there--

Both qb's have similar skill sets, strong arms, good pocket presence, ball "explodes" in receivers hands.

Both qb's slipped in the draft due to rumored drug, off-field, and leadership "issues"

Could Mallett be our pick at 15?

What do you guys think?

LANGER72
04-16-2011, 04:06 PM
Mallet will never fill Marino's shoes.
The pre draft smear is very similar though.
;)
I hope we get him!

Thundercracker
04-16-2011, 04:29 PM
I'd say, besides the quick release and hall of fame career, they're practically identical

Roman529
04-16-2011, 04:55 PM
The main difference I see between Mallett and Marino is Marino spotted his receiver and the ball was gone as quick as you can blink your eyes. Mallett needs to work on this. Marino didn't have much mobility or speed, neither does Mallett. Mallett is probably three inches taller than Marino and I would say has a stronger arm than Dan, but I doubt any QB will ever be able to read a defense and release it faster than Dan did and right on the money.

With that said I hope Mallett is our pick at #15.

MarSly
04-16-2011, 05:44 PM
It is rumoured Mallet is very good at reading defenses...The Marino similarites are unbelievable.

rickd13
04-16-2011, 06:09 PM
Marino's instincts were unmatched. He read defenses well, but I think he was the best at sensing what was happening on the field. Marino was more athletic than he was given credit for also. If you watch him pre-achilles injury you wouldn't believe how well he moved, especially in the pocket. I have a lot of tapes of Marino before he got hurt, including the 1984 AFC championship game against Pittsburgh, and I am blown away with how agile he looked.

beanh8er
04-16-2011, 07:02 PM
Marino's instincts were unmatched. He read defenses well, but I think he was the best at sensing what was happening on the field. Marino was more athletic than he was given credit for also. If you watch him pre-achilles injury you wouldn't believe how well he moved, especially in the pocket. I have a lot of tapes of Marino before he got hurt, including the 1984 AFC championship game against Pittsburgh, and I am blown away with how agile he looked.
Mallett is just like that. He can move in the pocket and make defenders miss just like Marino. But athletic Marino was not. One of the few people to have a .3 rushing average.

rickd13
04-16-2011, 07:33 PM
Mallett is just like that. He can move in the pocket and make defenders miss just like Marino. But athletic Marino was not. One of the few people to have a .3 rushing average.

You are underestimating how athletic Marino was. Don't forget, he was drafted in the fourth round of the MLB amateur draft by the Kansas City Royals in the 1979. I don't know how old you are, because I wonder if you remember or saw how he moved before his injury. He also had multiple knee surgeries before his serious achillis injury in 1993. True, Marino wouldn't take off and run, but he was much more agile than people give him credit for, and there is no comparison whatsoever between the way Marino manipulated the pocket and the way Mallett manipulates the pocket.

beanh8er
04-16-2011, 07:41 PM
You are underestimating how athletic Marino was. Don't forget, he was drafted in the fourth round of the MLB amateur draft by the Kansas City Royals in the 1979. I don't know how old you are, because I wonder if you remember or saw how he moved before his injury. He also had multiple knee surgeries before his serious achillis injury in 1993. True, Marino wouldn't take off and run, but he was much more agile than people give him credit for, and there is no comparison whatsoever between the way Marino manipulated the pocket and the way Mallett manipulates the pocket.
He was selected as a pitcher... I am aware that Marino could move the pocket better than anyone and was even named a top 10 mobile QB of all time (I think 7) because of that ability to make defenders miss. Mallett is comparable to Marino in that way but in no way is he as good as Marino at this.

phinfan1983
04-16-2011, 07:43 PM
Marino was/is great for the time he played. The defenses force the QBs to move more. Shuffling right and left (like Peyton and Brady) isn't good enough anymore. You have to be able to move like Rothlisberger and Rodgers to buy time for your line and receivers. In Marino's time the OL could hold for 5 seconds, now if get over 3 seconds the QB is lucky.

With that said, I wouldn't mind drafting Mallet and taking a chance. However, IMO I think Ponder is the better QB. His intelligence, accuracy, and mobility will serve him well in this era. He's shown to ability to read defenses fast and get rid of the ball bast.

SF Dolphin Fan
04-16-2011, 07:48 PM
The better comparison is Drew Bledsoe. You know it's interesting that Miami has been looking for a Dan Marino since Marino retired. Maybe the team would be better off looking for a Bob Griese type instead. Not to put Dan down, but Griese is the only qb to win a super bowl for the Dolphins.

rickd13
04-16-2011, 08:17 PM
"Marino was/is great for the time he played. The defenses force the QBs to move more. Shuffling right and left (like Peyton and Brady) isn't good enough anymore. You have to be able to move like Rothlisberger and Rodgers to buy time for your line and receivers. In Marino's time the OL could hold for 5 seconds, now if get over 3 seconds the QB is lucky.

With that said, I wouldn't mind drafting Mallet and taking a chance. However, IMO I think Ponder is the better QB. His intelligence, accuracy, and mobility will serve him well in this era. He's shown to ability to read defenses fast and get rid of the ball bast."



I totally disagree. You can definitely win in the NFL as a pure pocket passer, but you absolutely have to be able to manipulate the pocket in order to buy yourself time to make throws. I'll take Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Bress and Philip Rivers all day long. All of these guys are pure pocket passers and all of them are winners.

rickd13
04-16-2011, 08:32 PM
He was selected as a pitcher... I am aware that Marino could move the pocket better than anyone and was even named a top 10 mobile QB of all time (I think 7) because of that ability to make defenders miss. Mallett is comparable to Marino in that way but in no way is he as good as Marino at this.


I'm not trying to argue with you at all, but did you see Dan play when he first came into the league? He really moved well. He looked light on his feet and he had extremely fast footwork. Watch some highlights of his games from '83-'89 if you are too young to remember. Mallett will never be able to move like that. Mallett moves more like Drew Bledsoe moved.

LANGER72
04-16-2011, 08:46 PM
Marino moved well until he started wearing knee braces to protect his knees. In his early years, he was lighter on his feet because he was slimmer. As he got older and gained a few pounds, he was not as mobile but he knew where to step in the pocket to escape the rush because he had great pocket awareness, timing, and peripheral vision. Plus he had a great oline in front of him. I met Marino twice. He was every bit of 6'5" (I am 6'5") maybe taller. Tall guys are not usually nimble on their feet. If Mallet is 6'7", you can't expect him to run. His advantages are greatest when protected in the pocket.

edaniel1717
04-16-2011, 09:01 PM
Im excited about Mallet at #15... forget trying to trade down... take him and be done with it...

finfan54
04-16-2011, 09:33 PM
I know people will think this is loserville...but mallett is more like Brady than Marino to me. Crappy 40 time.

Brady just uses quck hits all day hitting the open guy with 4/5 wide. Mallett could very well be that in Daboll's supposed NE offense.
Mallett is actually in a little class by himself because he throws some off his back foot, which is a no-no but when your arm is his and still hits his target in the back of the endzone after two seconds, nobody will care so long as the reciever catches the damn ball!

beanh8er
04-16-2011, 10:12 PM
Mallett is actually in a little class by himself because he throws some off his back foot, which is a no-no but when your arm is his and still hits his target in the back of the endzone after two seconds, nobody will care so long as the reciever catches the damn ball!This is Marino you're describing.

Roman529
04-16-2011, 10:53 PM
If you look up some YouTube videos on Mallett, he is a little slow in the pocket, but if he sees some daylight he has no problem running up the middle for 15-20 yards. I have seen him run some QB sneaks where he looked like he was ok running the ball and with his size he is able to take some pretty decent hits and he can stiff arm guys off of him, even though he is pretty lanky. I think he can probably put on 10-15 pounds of muscle.

Locker and Newton look like the most mobile of this year's crop of QB's but you have to wonder if they will get banged up if they try running in the pro's. Mallett's height should allow him to see and read defenses really well and he should not get many passes tipped if he has an over-the-top or 3/4 throwing motion. That's one thing that bothers me about Henne is he stares down the recevier and defensive ends slap down his passes. I can't wait for the draft to get here.

phinfan1983
04-17-2011, 08:16 AM
"Marino was/is great for the time he played. The defenses force the QBs to move more. Shuffling right and left (like Peyton and Brady) isn't good enough anymore. You have to be able to move like Rothlisberger and Rodgers to buy time for your line and receivers. In Marino's time the OL could hold for 5 seconds, now if get over 3 seconds the QB is lucky.

With that said, I wouldn't mind drafting Mallet and taking a chance. However, IMO I think Ponder is the better QB. His intelligence, accuracy, and mobility will serve him well in this era. He's shown to ability to read defenses fast and get rid of the ball bast."



I totally disagree. You can definitely win in the NFL as a pure pocket passer, but you absolutely have to be able to manipulate the pocket in order to buy yourself time to make throws. I'll take Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Bress and Philip Rivers all day long. All of these guys are pure pocket passers and all of them are winners.

I agree with you. However, looking at the NFL if you have a pocket passer like Rogers you stand a better chance in close games.

Markeyh
04-17-2011, 09:52 AM
Why would we want another Marino?

ckparrothead
04-17-2011, 10:01 AM
Their situations are similar but on the field they will definitely look different. Marino was a short stepper and was very active with his feet, though not at all athletic. His release was not the most orthodox but he could throw the ball perfectly and accurately from basically ANY leverage point. He did things that you honestly shouldn't be able to do, I think that's what amazed so many people about him. Some people have pointed out that Mallett's accuracy drops off when he's at odd leverage and I think that's fair enough. I've seen him be accurate like that but I've also seen him be inaccurate like that. Mallett tends to be a longer strider, especially in his drop. His strides get shorter once he's set up in the pocket. Ryan Mallett's release is quick, but more orthodox and therefore a little longer than Marino's quick flick.

What Mallett and Marino have in common is just that both of them can put the ball anywhere on the field. Marino was the best at throwing players open, and Mallett has the potential to do that as well. They showed in that Gruden Camp that one back-shoulder throw to Cobi Hamilton against Ohio State...and Gruden's like, did you MEAN to throw that? Mallett's answer was, I went to high school with that kid so we have chemistry, so yeah I knew I could throw that to him. That is stuff you do NOT necessarily see often from college players. It shows you potential to do it better and more often in the pros where pro receivers are good enough to be trusted to be on the same page with you that way. The athleticism I think they have in common but Marino was so active with those short choppy steps, it's not going to look the same. In the pros, Mallett could work on his feet and his tempo more, shortening his strides and being more active with the feet. He can do this because one other thing the two share is a good sense for pocket pressure while keeping their eyes up the field. That shows that the ability to process information is similar...though I'm not sure you'd say it's as good as Marino's obviously. The potential is similar.

beanh8er
04-17-2011, 10:16 AM
Why would we want another Marino?
:bobdole: I'm hoping this is drenched with sarcasm.

KB21
04-17-2011, 10:21 AM
Their situations are similar but on the field they will definitely look different. Marino was a short stepper and was very active with his feet, though not at all athletic. His release was not the most orthodox but he could throw the ball perfectly and accurately from basically ANY leverage point. He did things that you honestly shouldn't be able to do, I think that's what amazed so many people about him. Some people have pointed out that Mallett's accuracy drops off when he's at odd leverage and I think that's fair enough. I've seen him be accurate like that but I've also seen him be inaccurate like that. Mallett tends to be a longer strider, especially in his drop. His strides get shorter once he's set up in the pocket. Ryan Mallett's release is quick, but more orthodox and therefore a little longer than Marino's quick flick.

What Mallett and Marino have in common is just that both of them can put the ball anywhere on the field. Marino was the best at throwing players open, and Mallett has the potential to do that as well. They showed in that Gruden Camp that one back-shoulder throw to Cobi Hamilton against Ohio State...and Gruden's like, did you MEAN to throw that? Mallett's answer was, I went to high school with that kid so we have chemistry, so yeah I knew I could throw that to him. That is stuff you do NOT necessarily see often from college players. It shows you potential to do it better and more often in the pros where pro receivers are good enough to be trusted to be on the same page with you that way. The athleticism I think they have in common but Marino was so active with those short choppy steps, it's not going to look the same. In the pros, Mallett could work on his feet and his tempo more, shortening his strides and being more active with the feet. He can do this because one other thing the two share is a good sense for pocket pressure while keeping their eyes up the field. That shows that the ability to process information is similar...though I'm not sure you'd say it's as good as Marino's obviously. The potential is similar.

That was an NFL type of throw. The ball placement was great. A small minority of college quarterbacks can make that throw. I heard Wes Bunting on the radio yesterday talking about how he felt Mallett didn't have good ball placement, and it is one of the few times I disagree with him.

ckparrothead
04-17-2011, 10:36 AM
That kind of throw isn't just an NFL throw, it's among the upper echelon of NFL throws. Chad Henne is starting to learn to do that a little better and a little more, but his reading of the field is still too slow and mechanical.

Dogbone34
04-17-2011, 11:36 AM
it's no coincidence that gruden said, "would dan marino take that kind of sack". he could have picked anyone.

if we don't take mallet, don't touch the QB's in this draft. (maybe yates late)

ckparrothead
04-17-2011, 12:35 PM
it's no coincidence that gruden said, "would dan marino take that kind of sack". he could have picked anyone.

if we don't take mallet, don't touch the QB's in this draft. (maybe yates late)

He also brought up Peyton Manning when he talked about the running back missing his "sink" call.

BlueFin
04-17-2011, 12:48 PM
I can definitely see similarities, as CK said they will look different, Mallett is noticeably taller, I don't believe any quarterback in NFL history has done a better job at feeling pressure in the pocket and moving or getting rid of the ball than Dan Marino. I do believe Mallett will attack the whole field aggressively like Dan did.

My guess would be Dan would be a better short to medium passer, and Mallett might actually be a better long ball thrower.

Dogbone34
04-17-2011, 12:50 PM
He also brought up Peyton Manning when he talked about the running back missing his "sink" call.

at that point, gruden knew he had said too much. didn't want to tip his mallet to miami hat anymore. we still need to keep this kid tarnished for another 10 days so he slides right past wash/tenn/minn.

all speculation of course, gruden could be keeping an eye on the miami job. mallet could be his weapon to wreak havoc on the northeast patriot/jet love fest. the league would love to have miami competing at a high level in the afc east

Roonnette
04-17-2011, 12:55 PM
My guess would be Dan would be a better short to medium passer, and Mallett might actually be a better long ball thrower.

Mallett's short game is nothing special.

KB21
04-17-2011, 12:58 PM
at that point, gruden knew he had said too much. didn't want to tip his mallet to miami hat anymore. we still need to keep this kid tarnished for another 10 days so he slides right past wash/tenn/minn.

all speculation of course, gruden could be keeping an eye on the miami job. mallet could be his weapon to wreak havoc on the northeast patriot/jet love fest. the league would love to have miami competing at a high level in the afc east

I think that is unlikely. Gruden is hung up on mobile quarterbacks and the spread at this point. If he's going to get back into coaching, he's going to be the guy that attempts to bring the spread as a full fledged offense to the NFL.

greasyObnoxious
04-17-2011, 01:05 PM
Mallett's short game is nothing special.

it's good enough to work in the NFL, but it's not a strong point of his, i agree

SamIam
04-17-2011, 01:31 PM
to me he is more like Joe Flacco to be honest

ckparrothead
04-17-2011, 01:39 PM
Mallett's short game is nothing special.

I agree. Not special yet. Probably the worst screen thrower I graded, not unlike Marino who never really got the hang of that either. But what Mallett has the potential for is the use of the shallow middle because he can SEE it easily being as tall as he is, and drop that ball right over top of the lines with no problem. You see him do that at Arkansas and it'll be a weapon of his in the pros.

Roonnette
04-17-2011, 01:39 PM
it's good enough to work in the NFL, but it's not a strong point of his, i agree

Yeah, he can't run and create that way, it's usually a checkdown once the protection breaks down, the throws are hurried, and often off target. But when a play is designed to be a short pass, he is alright.

ckparrothead
04-17-2011, 01:40 PM
to me he is more like Joe Flacco to be honest

Yeah I think that's a good comparison. Flacco is more athletic but he doesn't use that athleticism. They end up looking the same.

ckparrothead
04-17-2011, 01:42 PM
Yeah, he can't run and create that way, it's usually a checkdown once the protection breaks down, the throws are hurried, and often off target. But when a play is designed to be a short pass, he is alright.

I think it's the opposite. Plays that are designed to be short passes are screen throws and I still dislike Mallett's screen game. None of the plays he throws over the short middle are really designed that way. He's operating an NFL style playbook with defensive key reads and progressions. The nature and order of his progression depends on the defensive keys he reads pre-snap. You had option routes galore in that Arkansas playbook, and multiple reads after the snap. If there's a blitz you decide how dangerous the blitz is to you given the protection you have, and decide whether to go to your hot routes and which of the two hots you go to. There aren't really plays that are "designed to be a short pass".

Roonnette
04-17-2011, 01:50 PM
There aren't really plays that are "designed to be a short pass".

Agreed. I was thinking specifically, short slants and quick outs to RBs. He is alright on those.

Austin Tatious
04-17-2011, 01:51 PM
In that Gruden special, it looked like Mallett moved from side to side adequately. Gruden definitely wanted to check him out on that. Granted, that was against air, but CK's study showed that Mallett can slide in the pocket despite what conventional wisdom is out there. This is maybe the single thing that is making me more and more of a believer.

greasyObnoxious
04-17-2011, 01:52 PM
Yeah, he can't run and create that way, it's usually a checkdown once the protection breaks down, the throws are hurried, and often off target. But when a play is designed to be a short pass, he is alright.

hm, i've seen him being aggressive against the blitz as well. obviously, he's not as accurate under pressure, but his aggressiveness is still there. i like that.

Roonnette
04-17-2011, 01:53 PM
i like that.

I do too.

Austin Tatious
04-17-2011, 01:56 PM
to me he is more like Joe Flacco to be honest

I'd take that. Flacco was what, 25:8 TD to INT? I'm going off the top of my head, but I recall it was like 3:1. I'll say this. I think Mallett is more special than Flacco. He is more aggressive. But Flacco is pretty careful with the ball. That is the one aspect that makes me nervous about Mallett. I'm still skittish on his late game decision making. But that's my only significant concern. And I'm hopeful he will outgrow it.

EDIT: Flacco's TD-INT ratio was 25-10 last year, 60-34 for his career (3 seasons).

KB21
04-17-2011, 02:42 PM
The comparison to Flacco could be a key, as it has been reported that Jeff Ireland was very high on Joe Flacco when he came out in 2008. It has been speculated that Joe Flacco was Miami's target for the 32nd pick that year, and when he was gone, they settled for Chad Henne at 57. If Jeff Ireland sees Joe Flacco in Ryan Mallett, then Miami may very well be very interested.

Lord Of Miami
04-17-2011, 04:36 PM
Mallett is to Marino as Apple is to Orange.

TedSlimmJr
04-17-2011, 07:30 PM
I don't like the Mallett/Marino comparison at all. Their styles are similar, but so is any and every "immobile" pocket passer that's experienced success in the NFL. They all have to rely on the same strengths, and work around the same deficiencies.

The pocket awareness is where they're similar. Marino was a shuffler in the pocket, you don't teach that type of pocket presence.

Anybody that thinks the better athlete makes the better quarterback just isn't paying attention. You have to be able to operate and function from inside the pocket first and foremost to be an elite NFL quarterback... any mobility you bring beyond that can be considered an advantage.

But I don't care how good of an athlete you are if you can't function from inside the pocket and orchestrate an offense FIRST, you're not going to be an elite NFL quarterback.

There's a reason athletes like Tyler Thigpen, Tavaris Jackson, Stephen McGee, Adrian McPherson, Pat White, Dennis Dixon, David Garrard, Vince Young, and any other athlete at quarterback couldn't hold the water bottle of quarterbacks like Phillip Rivers, Kurt Warner, Drew Bledsoe, or any other "statue" when it comes to playing quarterback in the NFL.

KB21
04-17-2011, 07:57 PM
I don't like the Mallett/Marino comparison at all. Their styles are similar, but so is any and every "immobile" pocket passer that's experienced success in the NFL. They all have to rely on the same strengths, and work around the same deficiencies.

The pocket awareness is where they're similar. Marino was a shuffler in the pocket, you don't teach that type of pocket presence.

Anybody that thinks the better athlete makes the better quarterback just isn't paying attention. You have to be able to operate and function from inside the pocket first and foremost to be an elite NFL quarterback... any mobility you bring beyond that can be considered an advantage.

But I don't care how good of an athlete you are if you can't function from inside the pocket and orchestrate an offense FIRST, you're not going to be an elite NFL quarterback.

There's a reason athletes like Tyler Thigpen, Tavaris Jackson, Stephen McGee, Adrian McPherson, Pat White, Dennis Dixon, David Garrard, Vince Young, and any other athlete at quarterback couldn't hold the water bottle of quarterbacks like Phillip Rivers, Kurt Warner, Drew Bledsoe, or any other "statue" when it comes to playing quarterback in the NFL.

I agree. Mobility is a plus only when it is clearly secondary to the players pocket passing ability.

SamIam
04-17-2011, 11:34 PM
The comparison to Flacco could be a key, as it has been reported that Jeff Ireland was very high on Joe Flacco when he came out in 2008. It has been speculated that Joe Flacco was Miami's target for the 32nd pick that year, and when he was gone, they settled for Chad Henne at 57. If Jeff Ireland sees Joe Flacco in Ryan Mallett, then Miami may very well be very interested.

Bingo... you are right on.. I do remember some chatter at that time that they liked Flacco... I am really starting to believe that the interest is more reality than fiction

BlueFin
04-18-2011, 09:35 AM
The comparison to Flacco could be a key, as it has been reported that Jeff Ireland was very high on Joe Flacco when he came out in 2008. It has been speculated that Joe Flacco was Miami's target for the 32nd pick that year, and when he was gone, they settled for Chad Henne at 57. If Jeff Ireland sees Joe Flacco in Ryan Mallett, then Miami may very well be very interested.

Good point, I do think they are interested in Mallett.

If not, they have created an excellent smokescreen.

hooshoops
04-18-2011, 09:42 AM
flacco makes a whole lot more sense for a comparison than marino does...at least to me

hooshoops
04-18-2011, 09:46 AM
That kind of throw isn't just an NFL throw, it's among the upper echelon of NFL throws. Chad Henne is starting to learn to do that a little better and a little more, but his reading of the field is still too slow and mechanical.

yeah...that throw isn't common place in the pros by any means...back shoulder stick throw from the center of the field to the sideline on point...thrown where the coverage dictated...

money throw

hooshoops
04-18-2011, 09:52 AM
That was an NFL type of throw. The ball placement was great. A small minority of college quarterbacks can make that throw. I heard Wes Bunting on the radio yesterday talking about how he felt Mallett didn't have good ball placement, and it is one of the few times I disagree with him.

i strongly disagree with that also...especially on the vertical throws...not to mention his ability to drop in the ball over the outside shoulder on the fade routes in the endzone giving only the wr the opportunity to make a play and tap the toes...

i think the ball placement is on point...

in the ohio st bowl game he threw a back shoulder ball inside the #'s that the wr dropped between 3 defenders that you rarely even see attempted at any level...but the ball was exactly where it had to be...anywhere else and the defenders have a shot at making a play

Phinatic8u
04-18-2011, 12:23 PM
Mallett isn't Marino, but there pre-draft bull**** is very similar

Austin Tatious
04-18-2011, 12:35 PM
Honestly, Mallett has that first pick in the draft "look" about him. (I understand that's not where he is projected--just going by what I see.) I mean, compare him to Eli Manning. I like Mallett much much more than I did Eli. And Eli went first overall. Eli is slow.

This idea that Mallett is too slow in the pocket is pure nonsense. Other guys have had similar feet and won lots of games.

Mallett throws nothing like Elvis Grbac, since Ryan has a much much stronger arm. But their footwork in the pocket looks similar to me. And Grbac's footwork was solid enough that he was a nice starter, even though he doesn't have anywhere near the arm Mallett has.

I think Mallett's floor is about an Eli who won a Super Bowl. I think Miami would be lucky to get a first overall type talent at the 15th pick. Let's hope it happens.

retarmyfinfan
04-18-2011, 02:02 PM
Mallett is just like that. He can move in the pocket and make defenders miss just like Marino. But athletic Marino was not. One of the few people to have a .3 rushing average.

It was actually that high? I was thinking .2-.25. Nobody will ever replace Dan.

HurriPhin
04-18-2011, 02:22 PM
The only similarities are 1) the position they play and 2) their last names both begin with "M".